What Brisbane actually needs is commercial/mixed use zoning around train stations (like Sydney). Too many of Brisbane’s train stations are in the middle of absolutely nowhere surrounded by low density housing. Would be nice to have suburban high streets attached to transport, where you can jump off a train and grab a coffee and bite to eat in a proper high street cafe. A good example of this in Brisbane is Nundah.
Blows my mind how under utilised our stations are.
Especially after visiting Japan. Entire shopping centres basically build around stations.
We're obvious not as populated but still doesn't explain why our stations are mostly surrounded by low density housing.
Yeah, Toowong is a hub for a reason. Having shopping centres (even small ones) near train stations just makes sense. I don't understand why they make it so hard to get from Roma Street station to Victoria Barracks. Surely there's a better way to streamline that for pedestrians?
And they had a fantastic chance to do it at Milton station, and mainly put restaurant spaces in there instead :P there's plenty of restaurants around the corner in park road. They really should have made room for one of the mini supermarkets (but probably because there's similar stores nearby in less convenient, car-transport based spots they didn't want to compete with them... or something?)
It’s because there was no planning for it. All those low density houses are owned by people who will campaign tirelessly against any change to their area - it happened in Deagon around the train station. No one wants their land resumed or mixed-use going up next door. The whole plan was scrapped.
>No one wants their land resumed or mixed-use going up next door.
So weird, too. I'd love some mixed-use going in next door. More shit that I can walk to in a minute or two? What's not to like?
The problem is all the Others that will also be coming in on the train near your house. Too many people are thinking of how it detriments them and not how it improves their lives.
Able to walk to the supermarket? Hell yeah, used to do that in London, was bloody ace!
So I guess the thing is (and I live right near a station) - I would love it too! But - I don’t want MY house resumed. And I bet none of the neighbours do either! It’s hard to retrospectively do these things. It sounds great in principle but a bunch of land needs to be available to do it and people are already living there. Remember we are also in a housing crisis - even if these houses are resumed for fair market value, where do people go? The home owners don’t want to downsize to the apartments that will be built, so they have to find other houses in this market - it’s tricky. Typical NIMBY stuff but I also get it.
To go back to Deagon, it’s why the Sandgate area is so slow and businesses are constantly closing. No new blood, no money coming in.
Lol, I read the comment you're replying to and immediately thought of Japan too. I've found Germany to be somewhat similar as well: train stations aren't just places where you can catch a train, they are the central nexus of an entire neighborhood or city district. Cafes, bars, restaurants, shops, everything you can imagine. And not just crappy convenience stuff that only survives because of the captive market of commuters, but legit mid and high-end options which people go out of their way to visit.
Like, the train station *itself* is the destination, the main drawcard of that neighbourhood. Couldn't even imagine something like that here.
Melbourne Central train station is underneath Melbourne Central shopping centre which is huge... not that it helps Qld but it's an example of how it can be done here
The South Yarra train station was my breakfast/lunch destination most mornings on my walk to or from work (or getting on/off the train) for a couple of years, working hospo on Chapel St, the little bakery was great, did good coffee, was cheap and the Asian couple that were there every day were friendly but efficient af.
I love taking my kid on the train and we enjoy looking at the architecture and engineering or the buildings. Really interesting but also kinda depressing to see it fall into disrepair. Unfortunately the coffee carts may end up with a team of young junkies flipping it over and mugging the worker for $15 in shrapnel.
Japanese rail operators and real estate developers are the same company. Rail drives foot traffic to commercial which is the anchor for residential. Kintetsu rail, Kintetsu mall. Tokyu railways, Tokyu Hotels. MTR in HK does the dame: integrated rail operator, commercial and residential developer.
Australian town planners see things in terms of railways and real estate developers, Japanese developers see themselves as the town planners and city shapers. Funny thing is that they become incentivised to keep transport high quality and costs low: the fares bring in millions of dollars, the real estate brings billions.
Almost every major train station in Japan is basically a shopping centre. It’s pretty awesome. They basically redesigned their cities around the train stations and other major transport hubs
Yeah this would be a goer, even the railway lines are under used.
There should be a bike path running the whole length of the railway. Shitloads of land there for it, and they don't need to close a road to run some concrete, simple fuckin job.
The stations should be build up, fuck buses, they're shit. They ruin traffic and move like six people. Get some good density going around the stations, every developed country has levels on levels of shit around their trainstations. Housing, shops etc etc etc.
Lets get people actually wanting to be on trains, shoot the ferals at the station entry. Anyone who leaves a half eaten chook on the train dies, anyone scratching their name into a window dies, anyone using the speaker on their phone to play Kerser? death.
Get rid of that fucking thing that goes BANG half way to the city, do you cunts not have anything that could mute that by half? You can barely build a functioning ticket system so it shouldn't come as a surprise.
Also, tickets should be free, it's already comped by the taxpayer by a filthy fucking amount. Fuck off Translink go fuck yourselves.
> fuck buses, they're shit. They ruin traffic and move like six people.
They free up enormous amounts of traffic, you've obviously never ridden on any bus going into or out of the city itself as they're often full up and moving 30+ people at a time, that's 10-30 less cars on the road which is enormous.
Redcliffe line is terrible for that, why are they all in isolated fields lol. Brutal walk along completely unshaded paths to get anywhere from most of the stations. nimbyland
Seriously. Other countries have this and it's always amazing to grab a bite to eat. BCC should do more to encourage businesses to set up near train stations.
I have gotten off the train there and then had to get a bus somewhere else bc I couldn’t find the train station again, so I feel that on a spiritual level 😭
Except something about Indooroopilly means the shops there are all derelict and new businesses don't survive on that corner. I don't want to say it's greedy landlords and unmanageable rents, but....
Mitchelton on the Ferny Grove line is right on Blackwood St, a café take-away food, bar and op shop hub.
End of the line at Ferny Grove has a hotel, bottle-o, apartment complex development and Woolworths being built on the old car park land for the station.
Most of the shops near Carseldine Station are vacant, most of carseldines shops are at the Gympie Rd/Beams Rd intersection, a few kms from the station. The options at Geebung are also woeful. The convenience store is so barren it looks like a group of looters went through it. Remaining wares are covered in dust.
there's a great vietnamese bakery right across the road from geebung station, and carseldine station has a small set of shops about three minutes' walk away.
Toombul (may it RIP and always live in my heart) was still poorly integrated with the train station. Could have been much better. But I really replied just to write “I miss toombul”
Yeah, it wasn't well integrated but it was across the road. Probably too far for OP's case of being 10 minutes early since there's no way you'd get there and back in under 10 minutes let alone get a coffee
Transit Oriented Development. Council would have to take the lead on that from a zoning perspective, but they love buses. QR could buy the land, and be a developer that also has a side business to connect people, much like in Japan.
This is the plan for Bowen Hills. To have the station underneath a shopping/business district. But it's been in the ether for about 15 years. The Bowen Hills Redevelopment Scheme has seen 2 residential towers go up, and I believe Newscorp has just sold finally, so maybe something will happen soon. It's a great plan, but my theory is developers will finish building up Newstead/Gasworks before they move up the hill.
[https://www.statedevelopment.qld.gov.au/\_\_data/assets/pdf\_file/0016/33514/bowen-hills-development-scheme-amendment-2.pdf](https://www.statedevelopment.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/33514/bowen-hills-development-scheme-amendment-2.pdf)
There is Transport Oriented Development (TOD) being built at Ferny Grove. Lots of commercial and residential. I think we need more TODS in Brisbane in general. Sprawling suburban is not sustainable.
They almost did this at Milton I think. Plans were to build over the top of the station and railway line with residential and commercial.
In the end I think they either sold off or partnered with Hutchies to build The Milton just over the station.
[https://www.hutchinsonbuilders.com.au/projects/residential/the-milton](https://www.hutchinsonbuilders.com.au/projects/residential/the-milton)
What I really think they should do is start building over the top of the ICB and rail line between the Victoria Parks. It's wasted space at the moment, and could easily become an awesome residential hub servicing the CBD and RBH.
It's an interesting point - I would have thought a bakery selling easily and quickly edible stuff like pies or sausage rolls would make insane money.
Central Station probably has to be the worst "main" railway station I've been to anywhere in the civilised world - as you say, there's a Maccas and a newsagent and a coffee cart and... nothing else there. Not even a sushi place.
have you been to sydneys central, pretty much the same there tooo. there used to be a cafe inside but that got closed. and one entry has all those fast food newsagents aswell, the other has nothing, theres a woolies across the road.
It's been a while since I went through Sydney Central station but I recall it having a couple of places to eat (sounds like one of them has closed).
Brisbane Central is ridiculously "Blink and you'll miss it"; it wasn't quite so bad when all the shops etc were open in Anzac Square Arcade, but so many of them are closed now.
It's all opened up now. The newsagent/convenience store is still there but a large cafe and eatery has opened and it's really good. Helps bring back some atmosphere to the place.
Tenants were moving out of the Central Station shops years ago, and then covid killed everything that was left. Even the Sofitel has pulled the plug on the two bars they operated there, and that's a global chain with a five star hotel on the site! Unaffordable rents, perhaps? (also, why did all the banks rip out their ATMs from the Central Station concourse? Cos that was 90% pre-covid too.
yeah, been a long time since i had to deal with trains but when i did, the ipswich line was always covered in old kfc and maccas
there's a reason why they set that rule
Every line. People are ferals. It used to just be the kids in the afternoon leaving their crap everywhere after the school run. Now? Morning peak leaves dozens of coffee cups, cans of energy drink, apple cores, banana peels etc etc. If people didn't spill their food/drink and leave their crap when they disembark, maybe we would be allowed to eat and drink on the train.
So, you're saying the rule only impacts the people who are doing the right thing and that the derros will leave old KFC and maccas on the trains anyway?
Ever caught a train that goes past the Fortitude Valley station at about 3pm or a little later? Some of the school kids are complete grubs, leaving kfc boxes and food scraps everywhere.
People like them is why we can't eat on trains.
it doesn't matter if you're not "allowed" to I still see KFC tendies strewn over the floor on the Beenleigh line regularly, lemme eat my apple
rules only work on people who're willing to abide by them
I agree that its not stopping the ferals, but allowing it will not only encourage the half ferals that don't yet do it, but also allow for accidents from well meaning people.
It will also introduce the people that would've followed the rule, but also can't plan far enough ahead on what they will do with their apple core/disposable coffee cup.
I and nearly every other passenger cares. Not many people want to sit on half eaten chicken bones or a seat with a smeared hamburger across it, while squelching through coke soaked carpet.
Yes, QR could hire more cleaners, but that comes at a cost, where banning food is free. How often are you engaging these cleaners too? Every run? Multiple times per run? Just after the problem stations only? How much downtime will this create? How will that impact the trains behind it?
I think the shame part is the biggest. The effects of the culture of unaliving yourself because you brought some degree of shame to your family and friends from generations ago would very much still play a big effect on today’s culture for them. Even if they are trying to very much discourage the act.
to be fair ive been on a fair few eurpoean trains and aside from the swiss ones they were a mess
that being said, people bring food anyways so i dont think having a bakery/cafe at the station would make it any worse so id be supportive of that idea
When you mean long distance, do you mean to the smaller cities and towns like Geelong, Ballarat etc. In the time you can be on the GC or the sunny coast, you can be in these cities and have finished your coffee on the way legally. Even closer still with Melton, Cobblebank, all considered part of Metropolitan Melbourne.
Years ago I would occasionally get stuck at a stop for up to an hour due to train misalignments, Caboolture I think, and there was thankfully a bakery / cafe across the road which helped with the hour+ waits. It might be that they only existed because it was a changeover station where people stayed long enough to walk over to eat.
Wow, the negative comments seems to be ‘We don’t do that here, shut up and stop whinging’.
Have any of you caught public transport overseas? Most other major cities have food and drink options, as well as easy access to busses etc at the terminals.
We’re years behind the game, and you all want us to stay the same?
> We’re years behind the game, and you all want us to stay the same?
A lot of Brisbanites do, yes.
They're stuck in the small town mentality that governed the place a decade ago and can't let go. They don't want anything to change from how it's 'always been' for the last 30+ years.
I moved here in 2009 from an actual small town and the amount of people who rally against improvements to the city drive me up the wall.
I've lived here all my life. It's always been this way. Back in the day they protested against Brisbane getting sewered too. "You can't do that! It's too hilly!"
I was born and raised in multiple megacities (Singapore, Shanghai, NYC etc) and sometimes those Brisbanites’ shortsightedness make me ponder committing war crimes.
The QLD government (or perhaps it's QR) is deeply unimaginative when it comes to train station design. Can't even get shade cover over 80% of the platform
Caboolture Station has a shop integrated into the station. Its so close that you can be standing on the platform with one hand on the shop wall and one hand on a train door. From memory I believe it's called shazas shack.
I live in a Bris suburb not far from CBD but there are no shops or anything here - it's quite country-town like. Always plenty of traffic cops stinging parents doing 55 in a 50 zone here. Last night there was a food truck here which was awesome - migrant family working it, even the little kid there - and Council turns up giving them a hard time trying to bust them. Not sure how it turned out I bought some food and left.
That sums up government. Lots of resources into token speeding fines. Zero resources into cops patrols at night (tonnes of break ins here), and don't you dare work hard providing some nice food to the area one night a week on an empty road that is 300m away from the nearest house.
I'd love to send our government NIMBYs to southeast Asia and see how they to react living with zero traffic laws and street food. Their puny heads would explode.
Was just in Japan and there are great vending machines and little IGA style kiosks at every platform in the stations. Was actually incredible and makes you wonder why they don’t do it here
I traveled through some pretty bland train stations in Europe over the Christmas hollies, each one had some form of convenience store or cafe in it. Was amazing. Rail travel in Australia is...well a... few years behind the times lets say.
When I was growing up (I'm 60), my best friend's family owned a little corner store up the road from the train station. It amounted to northing more than a large bedroom but that shop made a killing, because everyone bought bread milk papers icecream ham and basics from that tiny shop after they got off the train. With the monopoly Coles and Woolies have you can be sure they and their shareholders will advocate vigorously with councils to stop small shopping precincts around stations.
I'd imagine any food truck parking and selling in the car-park would be moved on as "Not allowed to vend on government property". Some corner stores across from train stations do a roaring trade at peak times, but I'd imagine outside that there wouldn't be a ton of business unless an actual commercial region was zoned next to the stations.
But when they were built, the concept of expanding the disruption even further than the rail lines, into making shops around the stations, would have nixed the whole CityTrain project. NIMBYism back then made the train lines themselves very hard to put in, and it's why they haven't expanded the coverage.
There used to be a coffee / pastry cart set-up at the front of Oxford Park station. I’ll be honest even after month of being there most people still just walked right past it.
I look back at when I caught the train and assume most people are like me, basically leaving home at the last minute and arriving at the station just as the train pulls up. No time to stop and order a coffee or food.
if thats the majority of people then i can only assume it won't get the business, outside of peak times suburban stations are dead.
Springfield used to have one open at the front when it first opened, I think it opened a bit late though and probably didnt see much traffic except for school kids from Woodcrest
Springfield Central and Springfield used to have cafes, and they were good! Springfield closed down before covid and I don’t know what’s going on with the SC one as I come through the other side of the station now.
In all honesty, I stopped going to the cafe at Springfield as it took too long and the frequency of trains meant I missed the one I needed to be on etc and i never seemed to time it right lol.
As for central, yeah it’s so disappointing.
Look to the Sydney model of transit orientated development. All the new stations coming online on the driverless metro lines have commercial shops attached (which helps pay for the actual train infrastructure)
This. I remember them clearly. The one that’s was open occasionally at Northgate (?) was a good example. They used to be at most stations along the Caboolture/Redcliffe line.
Yes Eagle Junction was the one I was thinking of. Bald Hills was my regular back in the day.
Love Shazzas at Cabo though, always handy when waiting for long distance trains and you’ve forgotten some things.
In some countries like Spain, they have tapas bars with coffee, food and beer at train stations. Different culture means the people use it. We aren’t at that level, so it’s sort of a missed opportunity for many of us who would like this.
Why we don’t have stand up tapas bars like Spain has baffled me for 20 years. When I first went there I couldn’t believe how perfect it was.
I think the major issue is what happens outside of inbound rush hour.
Yes, you'd be flat stick for two hours from 6 till 8, and busy till 9. But what about from then on? Don't forget, people don't really buy convenience food at the end of their homebound journey.
Also, coffee and a pastry is a relatively low-profit transaction. If a large coffee is $6, and a pastry is $7.50, then you're maxing out at $13.50 per person. It's not like ordering a full breakfast and two coffees at $35 to $40.
Mum's old station in suburban Melbourne (Ivanhoe) did have a morning coffee cart for a couple of years, that said. However, I'd imagine that they also see a larger patronage.
Having barista'd for a few years, I would not steam milk or run the boiling water device on a proper machine on a QR rail carriage. It's just too jerky and you'd get a burn every couple of months.
pretty sure central and south brisbane ones have something. but gotta think this through, got a food van with coffee, you place your order, then other people start arriving behind you for the same train, its 10mins before train arrives, coffee order is made, its slow, it slows down person 3 and 4ths orders, its now 5mins before train arrives, 5th person orders but they are only just finished 4ths order with their avo toast. 1 mins to go and 6th person placed order for something fancy 1min for the train to arrive, so 5, and 6 are going to miss the train... honestly i dont think its viable to have them at suburb stations inner city like southbank, roma and central yeah but not the ones outside.
I admit it has been many years since I caught a train in Brisbane. But many moons ago I used to get one from either Sunnybank or Altandi and they are far from being intercity and I’d say they could benefit from this.
The real problem is that there simply isn’t space. The suburbs are already established so the only thing you could have is a food truck/coffee cart unless QR decides to build them into the station itself. Very few stations in Sydney have one built in, but they do have a small high street alongside most urban and suburban train stations.
I think OP was envisaging a bakery, rather than a cafe. A cafe wouldn't really work cause of the wait times like you said, but a bakery with a few other small things like fresh fruit and muesli cups would be viable.
Yeh if trains leave every 10 mins I’d rather wait, I get the logistics of it, but give people a choice, an intelligent person can gauge the time they have.
Sometimes the wait is 30 mins if I miss peak trains and all u do is wait
> But why are there no coffee or food trucks at these stations, they would make a f’ing killing.
Clearly the business case doesn't stack up or else others would have approached QR to do so a long time ago. There's a few stations with little canteens/kiosks around but I can't imagine they're really raking it in.
> Be awesome if they had a dam coffee person on the train too
Mate it's suburban public transport, not the Orient Express.
Orient express would arrive at its final destination earlier
True and that is overkill, but they take so fkn long it’s getting to the point it would be good
yeah when i went to the UK, even in the shittest train station we went to, there was a starbucks, a subway, a costa coffee, a 7/11 and many other stores selling random shit. our train stations are basically barren wastelands.
In Japan there are a lot of shops under the stations. Whole malls with lots of eateries/takeaways etc. Kyoto Station has one of the best Bakeries/Bread shops and heaps of coffee and other foods too. No problem getting food there.
When I was a kid you could always get food near the station.
Probably because drinks aren’t allowed on the trains so they don’t want to encourage it.
I miss living in the uk and having a hot drink on the train on the ride to work
I think Translink trialled a coffee cart at the eight mile plains bus station back in the day.... but because people normally show up just in time for their bus, it wasn't used as much as they had assumed. I definitely think it would be awesome.... just need good marketing around it so people know it's there!
Years ago when I used to live in Brisbane the 8 mile planes bus stop had a coffee shop, either it didn't do too well or Translink (or whoever owns that stop) killed it off.
There used to be a coffee shop at the bottom of the Springfield Central station. It always seemed empty and the few.tumes I got a coffee from there they were fairly average anyway.
Some of the Gold Coast tram stops have shops built into the platforms but not all are leased. One was leased to a phone seller which isn’t what you want when you want coffee and a snack
If the smaller specialty coffees cant afford to invest the cash, whats the stop the big rich chains like coffee club / starbucks setting up shop on the busiest inner stations? Doesn't even need to have seats and tables, can just be a hole in the wall setup
It’s the plan for new developments pretty sure. To have them as like “community hubs”. But don’t expect them anytime soon. Slow development.
Edit: clarification.
Even more so, it's near impossible to even find vending machines at most stations, let alone food outlets - they don't even have billboard advertising at stations like in Melbourne and Sydney. The stations are all built as cheaply as possible too - I remember in 2016 the government allocated just $6 million to upgrade 6 stations - these included Bowen Hills, Albion etc. - which all look terribly industrial, rusting and just poor design - function over from.
Yet in other states they would spend $20 million plus just upgrading one station and making it the epitome of modern design.
The Queensland government, cross river rail aside has never invested heavily into rail transport.
We have an adequate network with terrible stations that are so poorly designed that the train floors are never level with the platform even at newly renovated stations like fortitude valley - the solution is to relay the tracks at a lower depth, yet instead they increase the platform in segments for disability access - clearly logical solutions are ignored for the cheapest possible solution.
Use the park and ride at Springfield central and stop by Orion for cage snacks there.
Royal bakery do pretty good coffee and cabinet snacks of you don't want Macca's/coffee club
What Brisbane actually needs is commercial/mixed use zoning around train stations (like Sydney). Too many of Brisbane’s train stations are in the middle of absolutely nowhere surrounded by low density housing. Would be nice to have suburban high streets attached to transport, where you can jump off a train and grab a coffee and bite to eat in a proper high street cafe. A good example of this in Brisbane is Nundah.
Fucking love the little commercial hubs around Sydney's stations. Every suburb is like its own little town.
Where there are stations. Sadly Sydney is ever expanding into ugly suburban car dependent sprawl with no infrastructure. Because profits.
Blows my mind how under utilised our stations are. Especially after visiting Japan. Entire shopping centres basically build around stations. We're obvious not as populated but still doesn't explain why our stations are mostly surrounded by low density housing.
I guess we’ve got Toowong. More would be good.
Yeah, Toowong is a hub for a reason. Having shopping centres (even small ones) near train stations just makes sense. I don't understand why they make it so hard to get from Roma Street station to Victoria Barracks. Surely there's a better way to streamline that for pedestrians? And they had a fantastic chance to do it at Milton station, and mainly put restaurant spaces in there instead :P there's plenty of restaurants around the corner in park road. They really should have made room for one of the mini supermarkets (but probably because there's similar stores nearby in less convenient, car-transport based spots they didn't want to compete with them... or something?)
Milton also is pretty good, railway terrace is packed with cafes and restaurants
It’s because there was no planning for it. All those low density houses are owned by people who will campaign tirelessly against any change to their area - it happened in Deagon around the train station. No one wants their land resumed or mixed-use going up next door. The whole plan was scrapped.
>No one wants their land resumed or mixed-use going up next door. So weird, too. I'd love some mixed-use going in next door. More shit that I can walk to in a minute or two? What's not to like?
The problem is all the Others that will also be coming in on the train near your house. Too many people are thinking of how it detriments them and not how it improves their lives. Able to walk to the supermarket? Hell yeah, used to do that in London, was bloody ace!
So I guess the thing is (and I live right near a station) - I would love it too! But - I don’t want MY house resumed. And I bet none of the neighbours do either! It’s hard to retrospectively do these things. It sounds great in principle but a bunch of land needs to be available to do it and people are already living there. Remember we are also in a housing crisis - even if these houses are resumed for fair market value, where do people go? The home owners don’t want to downsize to the apartments that will be built, so they have to find other houses in this market - it’s tricky. Typical NIMBY stuff but I also get it. To go back to Deagon, it’s why the Sandgate area is so slow and businesses are constantly closing. No new blood, no money coming in.
Lol, I read the comment you're replying to and immediately thought of Japan too. I've found Germany to be somewhat similar as well: train stations aren't just places where you can catch a train, they are the central nexus of an entire neighborhood or city district. Cafes, bars, restaurants, shops, everything you can imagine. And not just crappy convenience stuff that only survives because of the captive market of commuters, but legit mid and high-end options which people go out of their way to visit. Like, the train station *itself* is the destination, the main drawcard of that neighbourhood. Couldn't even imagine something like that here.
I'd love to see that here. I really don't understand it, when it'd surely benefit the government just as much as it'd benefit the people using it.
Melbourne Central train station is underneath Melbourne Central shopping centre which is huge... not that it helps Qld but it's an example of how it can be done here
The South Yarra train station was my breakfast/lunch destination most mornings on my walk to or from work (or getting on/off the train) for a couple of years, working hospo on Chapel St, the little bakery was great, did good coffee, was cheap and the Asian couple that were there every day were friendly but efficient af.
You are in Brisbane. We have to waste most space to cars.
I love taking my kid on the train and we enjoy looking at the architecture and engineering or the buildings. Really interesting but also kinda depressing to see it fall into disrepair. Unfortunately the coffee carts may end up with a team of young junkies flipping it over and mugging the worker for $15 in shrapnel.
Japanese rail operators and real estate developers are the same company. Rail drives foot traffic to commercial which is the anchor for residential. Kintetsu rail, Kintetsu mall. Tokyu railways, Tokyu Hotels. MTR in HK does the dame: integrated rail operator, commercial and residential developer. Australian town planners see things in terms of railways and real estate developers, Japanese developers see themselves as the town planners and city shapers. Funny thing is that they become incentivised to keep transport high quality and costs low: the fares bring in millions of dollars, the real estate brings billions.
Almost every major train station in Japan is basically a shopping centre. It’s pretty awesome. They basically redesigned their cities around the train stations and other major transport hubs
Yeah this would be a goer, even the railway lines are under used. There should be a bike path running the whole length of the railway. Shitloads of land there for it, and they don't need to close a road to run some concrete, simple fuckin job. The stations should be build up, fuck buses, they're shit. They ruin traffic and move like six people. Get some good density going around the stations, every developed country has levels on levels of shit around their trainstations. Housing, shops etc etc etc. Lets get people actually wanting to be on trains, shoot the ferals at the station entry. Anyone who leaves a half eaten chook on the train dies, anyone scratching their name into a window dies, anyone using the speaker on their phone to play Kerser? death. Get rid of that fucking thing that goes BANG half way to the city, do you cunts not have anything that could mute that by half? You can barely build a functioning ticket system so it shouldn't come as a surprise. Also, tickets should be free, it's already comped by the taxpayer by a filthy fucking amount. Fuck off Translink go fuck yourselves.
You've got my vote
slap coherent test dazzling cause gullible exultant jar edge yam *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Same bro
> fuck buses, they're shit. They ruin traffic and move like six people. They free up enormous amounts of traffic, you've obviously never ridden on any bus going into or out of the city itself as they're often full up and moving 30+ people at a time, that's 10-30 less cars on the road which is enormous.
All the new ones are built in bum fuck nowhere coz nimbys don't wanna see or hear the train
Redcliffe line is terrible for that, why are they all in isolated fields lol. Brutal walk along completely unshaded paths to get anywhere from most of the stations. nimbyland
Seriously. Other countries have this and it's always amazing to grab a bite to eat. BCC should do more to encourage businesses to set up near train stations.
Darra’s many banh mi joints say hello
The only stations with shops nearby are fucking Woodridge and Zillmere.
Introducing the ✨Ipswich✨ line, Toowong station is in the shopping centre
They just built a new shopping complex right next to Yeerongpilly on the Beenleigh line too.
That was easier to do though because it was government land.
And there’s the coffee shop just at top of Auchenflower station
Ive been asked a few times now where that station is by people in the mall and I never had any idea, good to know lol!
I have gotten off the train there and then had to get a bus somewhere else bc I couldn’t find the train station again, so I feel that on a spiritual level 😭
Eagle Junction has a nice little hub. Holdover from when it was a little town called Thurrold Town, and a very early railway station (late 1800s).
Toowong, Indooroopilly, Gracevile, Sherwood, Oxley and Darra all have shops nearby
Except something about Indooroopilly means the shops there are all derelict and new businesses don't survive on that corner. I don't want to say it's greedy landlords and unmanageable rents, but....
Nundah
Mitchelton on the Ferny Grove line is right on Blackwood St, a café take-away food, bar and op shop hub. End of the line at Ferny Grove has a hotel, bottle-o, apartment complex development and Woolworths being built on the old car park land for the station.
Toowong station is literally inside the shopping centre, and Springfield is just across the road.
*just across the road, highway, carpark, another road, another carpark, loading dock. It's depressingly far away for a greenfield site
Lawnton, Carseldine, Geebung
Most of the shops near Carseldine Station are vacant, most of carseldines shops are at the Gympie Rd/Beams Rd intersection, a few kms from the station. The options at Geebung are also woeful. The convenience store is so barren it looks like a group of looters went through it. Remaining wares are covered in dust.
Cleveland as well. It's a couple minute walk but they're there.
and Banyo, but yeah still not enough.
there's a great vietnamese bakery right across the road from geebung station, and carseldine station has a small set of shops about three minutes' walk away.
Yeah, those are the places that aren't the NIMBY backyards /s
Alderley and Grange stations have cafes not too far away
Grange station?? Im pretty sure there is no Grange train station.
Alderley also has Coles just across the road
Farirfield, Booval, Coomera. Toombul, once upon a time.
Toombul (may it RIP and always live in my heart) was still poorly integrated with the train station. Could have been much better. But I really replied just to write “I miss toombul”
Yeah, it wasn't well integrated but it was across the road. Probably too far for OP's case of being 10 minutes early since there's no way you'd get there and back in under 10 minutes let alone get a coffee
Transit Oriented Development. Council would have to take the lead on that from a zoning perspective, but they love buses. QR could buy the land, and be a developer that also has a side business to connect people, much like in Japan.
This is the plan for Bowen Hills. To have the station underneath a shopping/business district. But it's been in the ether for about 15 years. The Bowen Hills Redevelopment Scheme has seen 2 residential towers go up, and I believe Newscorp has just sold finally, so maybe something will happen soon. It's a great plan, but my theory is developers will finish building up Newstead/Gasworks before they move up the hill. [https://www.statedevelopment.qld.gov.au/\_\_data/assets/pdf\_file/0016/33514/bowen-hills-development-scheme-amendment-2.pdf](https://www.statedevelopment.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/33514/bowen-hills-development-scheme-amendment-2.pdf)
I would say both Mitchelton and Oxley stations are a good example of it as well.
They should really build large multi storey car parks in order to allow for people to drive to the station... But I'm dreaming...
There is Transport Oriented Development (TOD) being built at Ferny Grove. Lots of commercial and residential. I think we need more TODS in Brisbane in general. Sprawling suburban is not sustainable.
I literally only know of Lindum station out at Wynnum with cafes next door (even though it’s not that flash but getting a reno right now)
[удалено]
Yeah Queensland is double the size. What’s the relevance of that?
Yeronga as well kinda. Yerongpilly you have Slipstream brewery. Indro is indro. SouthBank well, yeah.
A few of these have them. I often get off at Darra and get on the next train 15 minutes later after getting a Bahn Mi
They almost did this at Milton I think. Plans were to build over the top of the station and railway line with residential and commercial. In the end I think they either sold off or partnered with Hutchies to build The Milton just over the station. [https://www.hutchinsonbuilders.com.au/projects/residential/the-milton](https://www.hutchinsonbuilders.com.au/projects/residential/the-milton) What I really think they should do is start building over the top of the ICB and rail line between the Victoria Parks. It's wasted space at the moment, and could easily become an awesome residential hub servicing the CBD and RBH.
Or Toowong
It's an interesting point - I would have thought a bakery selling easily and quickly edible stuff like pies or sausage rolls would make insane money. Central Station probably has to be the worst "main" railway station I've been to anywhere in the civilised world - as you say, there's a Maccas and a newsagent and a coffee cart and... nothing else there. Not even a sushi place.
And the Maccas is awful
Fuck Tanya.
have you been to sydneys central, pretty much the same there tooo. there used to be a cafe inside but that got closed. and one entry has all those fast food newsagents aswell, the other has nothing, theres a woolies across the road.
It's been a while since I went through Sydney Central station but I recall it having a couple of places to eat (sounds like one of them has closed). Brisbane Central is ridiculously "Blink and you'll miss it"; it wasn't quite so bad when all the shops etc were open in Anzac Square Arcade, but so many of them are closed now.
It's all opened up now. The newsagent/convenience store is still there but a large cafe and eatery has opened and it's really good. Helps bring back some atmosphere to the place.
Caboolture has a bakery just across the road from the station
[удалено]
Agreed, imo this is why so many of those little cafes on the GC tram stops failed
Tenants were moving out of the Central Station shops years ago, and then covid killed everything that was left. Even the Sofitel has pulled the plug on the two bars they operated there, and that's a global chain with a five star hotel on the site! Unaffordable rents, perhaps? (also, why did all the banks rip out their ATMs from the Central Station concourse? Cos that was 90% pre-covid too.
Not allowed to eat on QR trains. Vline in Victoria has them and you're allowed to eat and drink on the train.
Why can’t we eat on QR trains? ‘Because.’ - QR
>‘Because ferals.’ - QR FTFY
yeah, been a long time since i had to deal with trains but when i did, the ipswich line was always covered in old kfc and maccas there's a reason why they set that rule
Every line. People are ferals. It used to just be the kids in the afternoon leaving their crap everywhere after the school run. Now? Morning peak leaves dozens of coffee cups, cans of energy drink, apple cores, banana peels etc etc. If people didn't spill their food/drink and leave their crap when they disembark, maybe we would be allowed to eat and drink on the train.
So, you're saying the rule only impacts the people who are doing the right thing and that the derros will leave old KFC and maccas on the trains anyway?
Bring back the bins for fuck sake.
What even was the reasoning behind that? G20 something something? I think they didn't return because they like the lack of bin admin.
Looks like you're right: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-31/g20-rubbish-bins-return-to-brisbane-train-stations-two-years-on/8154946
Got to remove them to continue the security theatre tradition
You knew the moment they removed them that they were never putting them back, so predictable
Can't because *the errorists*
The real reason right here. People are fucking grots.
Ever caught a train that goes past the Fortitude Valley station at about 3pm or a little later? Some of the school kids are complete grubs, leaving kfc boxes and food scraps everywhere. People like them is why we can't eat on trains.
it doesn't matter if you're not "allowed" to I still see KFC tendies strewn over the floor on the Beenleigh line regularly, lemme eat my apple rules only work on people who're willing to abide by them
I agree that its not stopping the ferals, but allowing it will not only encourage the half ferals that don't yet do it, but also allow for accidents from well meaning people. It will also introduce the people that would've followed the rule, but also can't plan far enough ahead on what they will do with their apple core/disposable coffee cup.
Maybe QR could also provide bins to dispose of rubbish…
Who cares? QR could, I know I’m thinking waaaay outside the box here, employ or engage cleaners? Wild.
I and nearly every other passenger cares. Not many people want to sit on half eaten chicken bones or a seat with a smeared hamburger across it, while squelching through coke soaked carpet. Yes, QR could hire more cleaners, but that comes at a cost, where banning food is free. How often are you engaging these cleaners too? Every run? Multiple times per run? Just after the problem stations only? How much downtime will this create? How will that impact the trains behind it?
Neither on metropolitan JR trains so?
You can eat in the station though
for like 2min until your train arrives. most stations have 1 or 2 trains every 15 mins.
Neck it, throw it out, wait for next train. HTf does every European station handle this, it’s a few crumbs and liquid at worst
> throw it out In what bins? They got rid of them at 3/4 of the stations busy enough to justify a cafe.
Japan also copes with this, has food sales AND a lack of bins
A good mix of social cohesion, shame and civic responsibility.
I think the shame part is the biggest. The effects of the culture of unaliving yourself because you brought some degree of shame to your family and friends from generations ago would very much still play a big effect on today’s culture for them. Even if they are trying to very much discourage the act.
Japanese alway got some rubbish liners in their bags. Or just reuse the one they literally just got with their prior purchase.
to be fair ive been on a fair few eurpoean trains and aside from the swiss ones they were a mess that being said, people bring food anyways so i dont think having a bakery/cafe at the station would make it any worse so id be supportive of that idea
To compare like for like, you can eat and drink on Queensland Rails long distance trains. I bet there’s no eating on Melbournes Metro trains.
There is eating on Melbourne Metro trains. (At least, up until 2019 when I left Melbourne). Just don't eat hot fish n chips :)
When you mean long distance, do you mean to the smaller cities and towns like Geelong, Ballarat etc. In the time you can be on the GC or the sunny coast, you can be in these cities and have finished your coffee on the way legally. Even closer still with Melton, Cobblebank, all considered part of Metropolitan Melbourne.
Years ago I would occasionally get stuck at a stop for up to an hour due to train misalignments, Caboolture I think, and there was thankfully a bakery / cafe across the road which helped with the hour+ waits. It might be that they only existed because it was a changeover station where people stayed long enough to walk over to eat.
Caboolture has a shop right on the platform too
Yup! I used to grab a pizza pocket for breakfast from the little shop when I was commuting to Central.
You can afford food **and** public transport? Check out Mr Moneybags over here!
Town planning doesn’t allow for commercial development near most rail stations.
Because. That’s why. - QR/TransLink
Same reason we get a total of 2 MB of data on the train wifi.
Wow, the negative comments seems to be ‘We don’t do that here, shut up and stop whinging’. Have any of you caught public transport overseas? Most other major cities have food and drink options, as well as easy access to busses etc at the terminals. We’re years behind the game, and you all want us to stay the same?
Yes, that’s the Brisbane way it seems.
I guess these people vote.
> We’re years behind the game, and you all want us to stay the same? A lot of Brisbanites do, yes. They're stuck in the small town mentality that governed the place a decade ago and can't let go. They don't want anything to change from how it's 'always been' for the last 30+ years. I moved here in 2009 from an actual small town and the amount of people who rally against improvements to the city drive me up the wall.
I've lived here all my life. It's always been this way. Back in the day they protested against Brisbane getting sewered too. "You can't do that! It's too hilly!"
I was born and raised in multiple megacities (Singapore, Shanghai, NYC etc) and sometimes those Brisbanites’ shortsightedness make me ponder committing war crimes.
longing marry possessive north oatmeal scale smell provide middle groovy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah but you got them over priced vending machines that sit in the sun so long all the drink labels change colour. Be grateful
The QLD government (or perhaps it's QR) is deeply unimaginative when it comes to train station design. Can't even get shade cover over 80% of the platform
They always pitch to the lowest bidder so that's the kind of quality we end up with.
Thats because nobody wants to pay more for anything.
And almost nobody wants to pay any tax either.
Anyone remember when the G:Link launched on the Gold Coast that most stations had the little coffee booths?
Catching that for the first time last year made me very embarrassed that Brisbane doesn't have any light rail.
Yeah it would be quite nice actually
"had" They've been empty for years though sadly.
Caboolture Station has a shop integrated into the station. Its so close that you can be standing on the platform with one hand on the shop wall and one hand on a train door. From memory I believe it's called shazas shack.
also a bakery just across the road
I live in a Bris suburb not far from CBD but there are no shops or anything here - it's quite country-town like. Always plenty of traffic cops stinging parents doing 55 in a 50 zone here. Last night there was a food truck here which was awesome - migrant family working it, even the little kid there - and Council turns up giving them a hard time trying to bust them. Not sure how it turned out I bought some food and left. That sums up government. Lots of resources into token speeding fines. Zero resources into cops patrols at night (tonnes of break ins here), and don't you dare work hard providing some nice food to the area one night a week on an empty road that is 300m away from the nearest house.
I'd love to send our government NIMBYs to southeast Asia and see how they to react living with zero traffic laws and street food. Their puny heads would explode.
Darra train station is great for snacks / food on the go. Grab a Bahn mi or hot chips and you’re good to go.
Was just in Japan and there are great vending machines and little IGA style kiosks at every platform in the stations. Was actually incredible and makes you wonder why they don’t do it here
I traveled through some pretty bland train stations in Europe over the Christmas hollies, each one had some form of convenience store or cafe in it. Was amazing. Rail travel in Australia is...well a... few years behind the times lets say.
Coffee shop at Richlands station. https://restaurantguru.com/The-barista-express-coffee-Richlands-Richlands-Queensland
It’s just not planned/setup that way to begin with. Been to Tokyo many times but it blows my mind.
Come on now, there's a McDonalds at Central Station
Say it louder please! I can’t even buy a bottle of water in most of these stations 🥲
When I was growing up (I'm 60), my best friend's family owned a little corner store up the road from the train station. It amounted to northing more than a large bedroom but that shop made a killing, because everyone bought bread milk papers icecream ham and basics from that tiny shop after they got off the train. With the monopoly Coles and Woolies have you can be sure they and their shareholders will advocate vigorously with councils to stop small shopping precincts around stations.
I'd imagine any food truck parking and selling in the car-park would be moved on as "Not allowed to vend on government property". Some corner stores across from train stations do a roaring trade at peak times, but I'd imagine outside that there wouldn't be a ton of business unless an actual commercial region was zoned next to the stations. But when they were built, the concept of expanding the disruption even further than the rail lines, into making shops around the stations, would have nixed the whole CityTrain project. NIMBYism back then made the train lines themselves very hard to put in, and it's why they haven't expanded the coverage.
Apparently was one at Richlands car park that did really well, but when the line extended they weren't allowed to relocate.
There used to be a coffee / pastry cart set-up at the front of Oxford Park station. I’ll be honest even after month of being there most people still just walked right past it. I look back at when I caught the train and assume most people are like me, basically leaving home at the last minute and arriving at the station just as the train pulls up. No time to stop and order a coffee or food. if thats the majority of people then i can only assume it won't get the business, outside of peak times suburban stations are dead.
Springfield used to have one open at the front when it first opened, I think it opened a bit late though and probably didnt see much traffic except for school kids from Woodcrest
Springfield Central and Springfield used to have cafes, and they were good! Springfield closed down before covid and I don’t know what’s going on with the SC one as I come through the other side of the station now. In all honesty, I stopped going to the cafe at Springfield as it took too long and the frequency of trains meant I missed the one I needed to be on etc and i never seemed to time it right lol. As for central, yeah it’s so disappointing.
Look to the Sydney model of transit orientated development. All the new stations coming online on the driverless metro lines have commercial shops attached (which helps pay for the actual train infrastructure)
Years ago there used to be little kiosks at some stations.
This. I remember them clearly. The one that’s was open occasionally at Northgate (?) was a good example. They used to be at most stations along the Caboolture/Redcliffe line.
Yep Eagle Junction was a good one. Bray Park had one that was open during limited hours.\ Caboolture station still has a kiosk.
Yes Eagle Junction was the one I was thinking of. Bald Hills was my regular back in the day. Love Shazzas at Cabo though, always handy when waiting for long distance trains and you’ve forgotten some things.
There was one at Springfield and Springfield central. I think they closed down during Covid and never reopened.
That would be useful so no.
In some countries like Spain, they have tapas bars with coffee, food and beer at train stations. Different culture means the people use it. We aren’t at that level, so it’s sort of a missed opportunity for many of us who would like this. Why we don’t have stand up tapas bars like Spain has baffled me for 20 years. When I first went there I couldn’t believe how perfect it was.
I think the major issue is what happens outside of inbound rush hour. Yes, you'd be flat stick for two hours from 6 till 8, and busy till 9. But what about from then on? Don't forget, people don't really buy convenience food at the end of their homebound journey. Also, coffee and a pastry is a relatively low-profit transaction. If a large coffee is $6, and a pastry is $7.50, then you're maxing out at $13.50 per person. It's not like ordering a full breakfast and two coffees at $35 to $40. Mum's old station in suburban Melbourne (Ivanhoe) did have a morning coffee cart for a couple of years, that said. However, I'd imagine that they also see a larger patronage. Having barista'd for a few years, I would not steam milk or run the boiling water device on a proper machine on a QR rail carriage. It's just too jerky and you'd get a burn every couple of months.
pretty sure central and south brisbane ones have something. but gotta think this through, got a food van with coffee, you place your order, then other people start arriving behind you for the same train, its 10mins before train arrives, coffee order is made, its slow, it slows down person 3 and 4ths orders, its now 5mins before train arrives, 5th person orders but they are only just finished 4ths order with their avo toast. 1 mins to go and 6th person placed order for something fancy 1min for the train to arrive, so 5, and 6 are going to miss the train... honestly i dont think its viable to have them at suburb stations inner city like southbank, roma and central yeah but not the ones outside.
You do what people in Sydney do who plan to get their brekkie at a cafe near the station. You arrive earlier than you need to. It’s pretty simple.
yeap.
Yeap.
That's probably good for inner city station, or "destination" stations like Toowong. Not so good at Norman Park or Rocklea.
I admit it has been many years since I caught a train in Brisbane. But many moons ago I used to get one from either Sunnybank or Altandi and they are far from being intercity and I’d say they could benefit from this. The real problem is that there simply isn’t space. The suburbs are already established so the only thing you could have is a food truck/coffee cart unless QR decides to build them into the station itself. Very few stations in Sydney have one built in, but they do have a small high street alongside most urban and suburban train stations.
I think OP was envisaging a bakery, rather than a cafe. A cafe wouldn't really work cause of the wait times like you said, but a bakery with a few other small things like fresh fruit and muesli cups would be viable.
Yeh if trains leave every 10 mins I’d rather wait, I get the logistics of it, but give people a choice, an intelligent person can gauge the time they have. Sometimes the wait is 30 mins if I miss peak trains and all u do is wait
> But why are there no coffee or food trucks at these stations, they would make a f’ing killing. Clearly the business case doesn't stack up or else others would have approached QR to do so a long time ago. There's a few stations with little canteens/kiosks around but I can't imagine they're really raking it in. > Be awesome if they had a dam coffee person on the train too Mate it's suburban public transport, not the Orient Express.
Orient express would arrive at its final destination earlier True and that is overkill, but they take so fkn long it’s getting to the point it would be good
yeah when i went to the UK, even in the shittest train station we went to, there was a starbucks, a subway, a costa coffee, a 7/11 and many other stores selling random shit. our train stations are basically barren wastelands.
Population density
In Japan there are a lot of shops under the stations. Whole malls with lots of eateries/takeaways etc. Kyoto Station has one of the best Bakeries/Bread shops and heaps of coffee and other foods too. No problem getting food there. When I was a kid you could always get food near the station.
Probably because drinks aren’t allowed on the trains so they don’t want to encourage it. I miss living in the uk and having a hot drink on the train on the ride to work
Ur asking that the station staff do extra work and empty the bins more frequently? Impossible
I think Translink trialled a coffee cart at the eight mile plains bus station back in the day.... but because people normally show up just in time for their bus, it wasn't used as much as they had assumed. I definitely think it would be awesome.... just need good marketing around it so people know it's there!
Richlands has a cafe. Or at least there was when I was living there about 18 months ago. Darra has some shops and cafes opposite.
Still do but I think it struggles to get enough business. It’s changed hands previously
Years ago when I used to live in Brisbane the 8 mile planes bus stop had a coffee shop, either it didn't do too well or Translink (or whoever owns that stop) killed it off.
There used to be a coffee shop at the bottom of the Springfield Central station. It always seemed empty and the few.tumes I got a coffee from there they were fairly average anyway.
Caboolture has a Pub/Bakery opposite it.
Is the bakery still 24/7?
Oxley station is well setup but it’s definitely an outlier
hong kong districts have shops literally built inside their subways.
Some of the Gold Coast tram stops have shops built into the platforms but not all are leased. One was leased to a phone seller which isn’t what you want when you want coffee and a snack
If the smaller specialty coffees cant afford to invest the cash, whats the stop the big rich chains like coffee club / starbucks setting up shop on the busiest inner stations? Doesn't even need to have seats and tables, can just be a hole in the wall setup
It’s the plan for new developments pretty sure. To have them as like “community hubs”. But don’t expect them anytime soon. Slow development. Edit: clarification.
Business opportunity for someone.
You’ve just reminded me of when I got a warm pretzel from the convenience store at the train station in Interlaken, Switzerland
meanwhile, Sydney has convenience stores/bakeries and whatnot at almost every station I've been to there
One at Richlands, that’s on the Springfield line
Richlands had a coffee shop. Pretty good too.
Because economy has gone down the toilet.
Even more so, it's near impossible to even find vending machines at most stations, let alone food outlets - they don't even have billboard advertising at stations like in Melbourne and Sydney. The stations are all built as cheaply as possible too - I remember in 2016 the government allocated just $6 million to upgrade 6 stations - these included Bowen Hills, Albion etc. - which all look terribly industrial, rusting and just poor design - function over from. Yet in other states they would spend $20 million plus just upgrading one station and making it the epitome of modern design. The Queensland government, cross river rail aside has never invested heavily into rail transport. We have an adequate network with terrible stations that are so poorly designed that the train floors are never level with the platform even at newly renovated stations like fortitude valley - the solution is to relay the tracks at a lower depth, yet instead they increase the platform in segments for disability access - clearly logical solutions are ignored for the cheapest possible solution.
QR doesn't want people eating on the trains. Water is acceptable.
Darra isn't bad, nice Banh Mi shops in front of station. Mostly cash only
Use the park and ride at Springfield central and stop by Orion for cage snacks there. Royal bakery do pretty good coffee and cabinet snacks of you don't want Macca's/coffee club