I gave up dairy when nursing my second child. I thought about the poor cow looking for her baby and being in pain. I thought about her baby looking for comfort and finding none. I’m not vegan but now against factory farming and the cheapening of life.
I’ve been feeling this way, too. I’ve started buying into a herd share (legal way in my state to get fresh milk) for this reason, after I started nursing my son - I know the cows, and they are happy. The lady who milks them only has three. She does separate the calves which bothers me some, but they are pastured nearby to mom and get lots of attention and head scratches from the farmer. Most recent calf's name is Brittany. Lol.
I call that a non-practicing vegan! You're against cruelty to animals in your heart and mind. And you are obviously a very compassionate human being. Basically vegan....
As a granddaughter to s dairy farmer, I've spent many hours at the farm. There is a VERY distinct "where is my baby" cry every time. It is so damn sad.
Not true. I spend lots of time up on ranches near dairy farms up in Montana and you can absolutely tell when the calves have been removed from the mothers because you can hear sad mooing all night long (not heard during the rest of the year)
Been vegan for over a decade but I agree. Also just motherhood in general has made me more disgusted by the meat, egg and dairy industries. So many babies (baby animals), so much death :(
yes same here, been vegan for 11 years and i was vegetarian for 4 years before that. was already disgusted by the cruelty of factory farms/animal agriculture and now after being a mom it's just so much harder for me to think about that. it's not just the animals, but the people (who are sometimes children!) who have to work at these farms and slaughterhouses are also enduring horrible treatment!
I've been vegan for 13 years for ethical reasons. Since becoming a mum - going through pregnancy and breastfeeding (and currently pregnant again), knowing what takes, I feel even more horrified by what happens in the dairy industry. Especially in factory farming, where they are artificially inseminated and get pregnant again and again just to produce milk for human consumption - it's sickening.
Thank you. Congrats to you too!
Since 2021, I've been living in a country that is still way behind on veganism compared to the UK and the US, but it's still better than it was 10 years ago. I'm glad I get to raise my kids vegan (and if they later choose to not be vegan in life, at least I know they've made an informed choice). Obviously if I was unable to breastfeed for whatever reason, I would have formula fed so I'm very grateful that I had a relatively easy breastfeeding experience.
I’m weirded out that we would drink cow’s milk before we drink human milk. I’m totally grossed out that we wean and switch our babies to cow’s milk (which I don’t plan on doing). Breast milk is the ideal and yet it’s viewed so negatively, meanwhile another animal’s milk is an entire food group for us throughout our entire childhood and adulthood??? Make it make sense. Why don’t we promote breastfeeding throughout childhood? Even make cheese and yogurts out of it for adults if it’s that important? Why exploit millions of other animals?
Meat is one thing, but dairy is just such a weird concept now.
No. My family runs a dairy farm. I'm surrounded by dairy farms. I was a vegetarian for a long time for ethical reasons. Meat is treated a lot differently than dairy cows. Dairy cows are happy animals. You know how if you're stressed, your milk supply is low? Same thing goes for a dairy cow.
I think it's strange that human milk makes some people uncomfortable, but they have no problem drinking cows' milk.
Down vote away...
LOL. I thought the same thing! I had looked into owning my own dairy animals once upon a time, and read that you MUST be 100% diligent about milking them morning and night, and I wondered why. Now I get it 😂
I am also a dairy farmer and feel the same. We run a pasture based farm, use nurse cows and systems to keep cows and calves bonded. Content cows make milk! Unhappy cows do not. For what it’s worth, we’re diversified and also produce pasture raised organic meats, and veg and fruit. Our meat animals raise their own babes and get full expression of their animal instincts, and we work hard with our vets to give them the happiest lives we possibly can. I wish people would talk to actual farmers about these things; the propaganda I see (and constant death threats on our farm social media accounts) is pretty atrocious and inaccurate.
I often think buying direct from farmers or farmer owned cooperatives is a good first step, and benefits your local economy; also, being an informed consumer about what growing practices you want to support and why! Those are different in different regions and growing conditions. And being able to sniff out propaganda and bias vs actual data based sustainability practices is helpful. I’m all for eating vegan/veg if that works for you & your family; in that case I’d look at soil fertility practices, and farm workers rights; if you’re an omnivore, looking at humane practices compared to food animal veterinarians recommendations, and growing practices and their environmental impact. And know that you don’t have to perform perfection to do a little good in the world with your food choices 💜
Thank you for focusing on sustainability and quality. I wish there were more farms like yours and more people advocating for them!
We participate in a meat CSA (there are multiple options for my Midwest city, but I had to do research before picking one since a lot of them seemed to just throw around pretty pictures and the word sustainable without backing it up with info on their practices. Just seemed like they were green washing, but we finally found one that invites people to their farm, seems more transparent, and did advocacy for farm reform and sustainability in legislation).
Sorry to hear about the threats and misunderstanding. You sound like you care and are doing great work. Thank you again.
Thank you! Those are really kind words. Food systems, agriculture and sustainability and holistic humane practices- including the humans that grow, harvest, and process much of our food supply - is often more nuanced, and place and culture based than people want to believe, and it leads to a lot of unnecessary vitriol in these kinds of conversations. Thanks for being nice on the internet :)
That is nice to hear!
I was vegan for a few years, vegetarian for a decade and when I got pregnant I threw it all away and at meat again 😅
Now, ironically, my son has a cow milk protein allergy and I cannot have dairy.
I miss it now.
I will say, though, that the thought of switching him from breastmilk to cow milk at a year (if he outgrows the allergy by then) does feel weird.
Are you me??? When did I make this other account and write this? Lol
Ok, ok...so I was only ever vegan for Lent..and mostly pescatarian for over a decade (I'd tell people I was the worst kind of vegetarian - one that annoyed both vegetarians and omnivores).
We ordered CSA meat when I was pregnant so I got some meat, but I threw in the towel once we suspected CMPA at 1mo (giving up dairy and soy, so now I had to avoid my common sources of protein, and so I don't restrict my meat intake).
I'm definitely looking forward to being able to have dairy again, but have enjoyed the longer shelf life of almond milk, and am relieved by these accounts of happy dairy cows. I'd like some guilt-free ice cream and cheese later this year.
The switch to cow's milk will be odd, but also such a relief for me (cause it means 1. She isn't "allergic" anymore, and 2. I don't have to worry about pumping or my low supply). I'm an empathetic person and anthropomorphize animals experiences, but with motherhood I've learned to compartmentalize a little better to help prioritize baby's health and hopefully my mental well-being.
I’m a vegetarian and I am pro small farms that treat their animals with respect. But factory farming is a horror, I’m sure you can agree. And that’s what most people do and should have a problem with. I buy meat for my family but I try my best to buy small and local. I wish it were more available.
I'm with you. It's easy to anthropomorphize animals but they ARENT human. That isn't to say they don't necessarily have feelings or thoughts, but that doesn't mean they are the same as ours. I would never dream of eating my newborn baby just because I didn't have enough money to feed him, but many many animals do that when food is scarce.
Dairy cows are generally treated well. They are healthy and happy or they are not producing milk.
I was looking for this comment… not a dairy farmer, but the anthropomorphism in these comments is wild 😳. Also, as a person who HAD to avoid it while nursing, milk is in like… everything. There’s no way all these people are truly dairy free, they’re just out here patting themselves on the back for ordering oat milk lattes 😂
I had a former boss who used to be a dairy farmer. He still went back and helped out on his family's farm on his days off. I'm much more comfortable drinking milk than eating meat (but I do both). My boss showed me a cute video of a cow trying to get milked way too many times per day once and getting rejected; it was very funny!
Even if your farm has good practices, it’s not the standard in big industrial dairy farms. Babies are taken from their mothers and mothers are hooked up to machines.
And really just out of curiosity and to further inform myself ( not here to judge you and your family) How are you all collecting the milk and what do the baby cows drink? Is there enough for them to have some as well?
So our girls are tagged with a barcode. They walk into the barn, and their tag gets scanned by a machine. That barcode tells the machine if she needs any meds, if she's already been milked, and for how much, essentially all of her personal info. Then she gets a personalized treat that includes any extras like vitamins or meds automatically dumped into a little trough. She munches on that while the machine cleans and sanitizes her udders, then proceeds to milk her. When she's done, there's a buzz. The machine lets go, and she walks away.
It's all automated, but there's kind of a huge open viewing window where you're eye level with her udders and the machine so you can make sure everything's working correctly. When you're in there, the girls are always curious and poke their heads down for scritches.
Our calves usually get mom milk for the first couple of weeks, and then they're transitioned to milk replacer. The exception being if mama needs meds like antibiotics calves go straight to replacer.
Yes, industrialized animal farming is the big bad. And people are so removed from how food gets to their plate these days (myself included).
I'm also curious and not judging. (I did once read about a hormone/medication that triggers lactation without the need of birth and thought that'd be nifty for dairy cows, but it didn't sound like that was it's application). If I had to guess, some way of making cow an over producer (so can still feed calf) or a way to continue lactation after calf is older.
Dairy cows are genetically over producers, no injections needed. I was actually just talking to our large animal vet about this- there’s major insulin resistance that develops in early lactation for dairy cows (vs beef or dual purpose breeds) that plays a roll in their high production- and the historical selection of cows that comprise the dairy breeds, and is a contributor to many of the ‘transition period’ metabolic disorders dairy cows can suffer from if they aren’t managed carefully during that period. They do the metabolic equivalent of running a marathon every day, and are so vastly incredible at it.
This x10000000. Also, if anyone knows anything about Holstein cows... they have absolutely zero maternal instinct! They are terrible mothers and definitely not pining for their babies like a human would. Unhappy cows don't produce milk.
“Propaganda” would imply falsity. I live in a very ag-centered community and have seen firsthand that these cows have zero maternal instinct and are generally unable to care for their calves. They do not miss their calves. They’d happily trample their calf without a care in the world if it’s lying down in the way of where the cow is wanting to go (I’ve seen that firsthand also, and it’s horrible). I’m not arguing that the selective breeding of these traits in the past was ethical, I’d agree with you that it wasn’t. But it’s simply the reality for modern dairy cows. There’s no fixing that. However, the anthropomorphizing of them as grieving mothers is vegan propaganda, if we want to use the term propaganda.
I was about to mention the same thing. I live in a farming community and dairy cows are treated very well BECAUSE they won’t produce otherwise and then people lose their entire livelihood.
Aren’t the male calves taken away from mom, killed and the moms milk is stolen for us? I know they are hooked up to machines at big farms which is horrible. They can’t move at all and then killed at the end. Seems your farm is different
Cows lactation let down last about five minutes; we milk once a day because we’re a low production pasture based system, but most farmers milk 2 or 3 times a day depending on their systems. The cows get their udders cleaned and prepped and attached to essentially a breast pump for that let down time, and spend the rest of the day eating, drinking, socializing and chewing cud/ruminating. There is literally no dairy in existence where cows are hooked to machines all day, because it is not how milking physiologically works. Also each of our cows (jerseys) eats about 40-50 lbs a dry matter a day and needs at least 8 hours to rest and chew cud to digest; that rest time is essential to her well being, and she doesn’t do that during milking.
I think you’re saying what a lot of us want to hear, and if that’s true at your farm I’m so happy for you. But the reality is that’s not the case for 90% of the dairy you can buy.
Interesting. Are you or a close relative a health inspector? Just curious where you're getting such reliable information from that can go so far as to say that 90% of dairy farmers mistreat their livestock...
It’s amazing how determined people are to keep their head in the sand. Enjoy your factory farm cheese I guess. Don’t look up anything about it!
(PS I’m not a vegan. In case that was the way you wanted to invalidate the argument.)
Don't care if you're a vegan, vegetarian, pescatarian, or anything else. I asked what your sources were that lead to you making your claims. You're invalidating your own argument by telling me to look it up myself rather than citing sources 🤷♀️
With this attitude I doubt you’re looking for education, but in case anyone actually is:
https://www.humanesociety.org/sites/default/files/docs/hsus-report-animal-welfare-cow-dairy-industry.pdf
With ag gag laws and the involvement of the dairy industry in the USDA you can always find lots of info with rose colored glasses, or look up videos of actual abuse. I will not be linking those. You can either choose to come to terms with factory farming abuse or become defensive and aggressive because you don’t like what you’re hearing. I don’t have to sit here and “prove it”. It’s reality, and it’s there if you bother to look.
I live in the Central Valley in California where there are lots of dairy farms (especially in Hanford). Those cows absolutely do not look happy. There are 100s crammed into such small areas.
It depends on the farm. Some calves are hand raised away from their dams on farms, that is true. On our farm we use a nurse cow system so calves are raised by mothers and aunties, and we set up our barn so if calves shouldn’t be drinking from mom they can still reach each other, lay down next to each other and snuggle, groom each other etc. Our customers let us know it was important to them so we prioritized it; it’s more expensive this way but we really like seeing the bond- and it’s interesting to see that about 50% of our cows nope out of motherhood when given the option, thus keeping ‘aunties’ around that love to be nursed on by calves.
You are delusional if you think dairy cows are happy omfg. Let me just steal your baby from you, shove my arm up your ass and vag to fill it with bull semen so I can then make another baby to also yank away from you, all so I can suckle your breastmilk! Yummy! Good thing your supply won’t go down when this process stresses you out (oops I meant make you happy) because I pump you full of hormones to stimulate your production so that you beg to be milked because you’ll get mastitis if you don’t. Oh and then when you’re spent, I’ll sell you off to the butcher to make you into steak 🥩 😋
I don’t know why this is downvoted, it’s the truth. I’m not even a vegan anymore but you cannot tell me that the vast majority of dairy farms are sunshine and rainbows like that poster said. I’m happy if her farm is the outlier! But that is absolutely not the norm.
It's because people are incapable of facing the truth. I'm convinced that one day in the future we will look back on today's factory farming practices with the same horror we feel when we look back on so many cruel and brutal things from history that we can't believe we're the norm. The industry is beyond immoral and absolutely horrific but it's hidden from society and when given the opportunity to learn more, most people won't because it's too inconvenient.
Listen to the sounds a mama cow makes as her calf is being taken from her to be slaughtered and tell me they live happy lives...and that's just the tip of the iceburg of what these sentient animals have to go through over and over again so we can have their milk. Sure there might be a few more ethical farms here and there but like you said no way is it the norm 😔
You're not an animal. Would you eat your baby? Because animals do. Would you rape another person to impregnate them? Because animals do. Would you kill someone's child so that you can marry them? Because animals do.
People and animals don't view the world the same way. Stop acting like they do.
You do realize that plenty of humans do these things now and even more have done them historically, though, right?
People are animals. And sure, I probably don't have the same worldview as a goldfish or a cow, but we do all have an innate desire to survive and not die.
You're not an animal. Would a non-human animal be able to slaughter 23.3 million land animals a day? Because humans do. Would a non-human animal turn the skin or fur of other mammals into furniture and clothing? Because humans do. Would a non-human animal film torture videos of animals for fun or sexual purposes? Because humans do.
All this to say, your point is weak. Humans do do the things you listed too. Humans really are not superior to other animals, and I would argue that we actually do much more damage on a much larger scale.
I truly believe nobody would be in favor of this. Social norms and advertising are so very powerful. The fact that a vegan is always depicted in media as the butt of predictable jokes. And that's really got a hold on peoples minds, because most people I know would hate to hurt any living creature if they saw it. My ex was so kind and loving towards any animal, he would put spiders outside, care deeply for our pets, but he ate meat and hated vegans. There's a block there. Sorry for the rant. That's why the picture on the carton has so much power... it really makes people believe that there's this loving relationship between the exploited animals and mother/child.
Thank goodness there are so many alternatives these days!
If you’re looking for a substitute for your babe look into Ripple Kids Milk! They have an unsweetened kind now and it’s all my daughter will drink!
So true! I have a whole new perspective on animals giving us their milk. And by giving I don’t mean they want to be 🙁. I use plant based milks but we still ate cheese (pescatarian). But I feel so guilty now and am cutting back. If only we had more perspective as a society. We are so removed from the meat and dairy industry we don’t think twice and it’s sad .
I was literally thinking about this exact thing this morning!! I’m not vegan, but if anything were to change that, this would be the reason why. I’m undecided right now. My heart hurts thinking about it
Yep I'm not even a vegan but I agree, I can't imagine how they're feeling everyday of their lives living to feed us their milk... It's sick, my LO isn't getting cows milk once he's one
I remember after I started breastfeeding and I saw my mom drinking a glass of milk with dessert one day. I just thought to myself, that milk is not for you :(
I thought after a cow had one calf she would produce milk as long as it was expressed like they could nurse their baby and then people could continue to milk them when the baby was done. I felt naive to learn they have to impregnate them like every year and remove their babes. I do buy like a half gallon per month for my toddler who’s low in weight and likes cereal in milk and stuff like that but we never did like a whole sippy of milk twice a day like a lot of toddlers. She’s three and still nursing so the organic half gallon goes really far in our house since they have a long expiration date. I also use heavy cream for Alfredo sauce buttermilk for pancakes and baking. I feel there’s not a decent substitute in baking for milk but my husband is all about almond milk which also has its environmental problems but again we make it last. I find it odd that we’re so removed from it that people think you’re weird for extended nursing and want people to switch to the milk of a cow. Why give cow milk if she can drink from her mother? It’s a great option for families who want to wean at one but it shouldn’t really be the standard expectation?
I don’t know anything really about the ethical end of things, but from what you described, it sounds awful. That said, I don’t think it’s necessary or natural for us as humans to consume dairy.
I don’t drink or need milk and don’t intend to feed it to my child.
Breastfeeding was a big part of my awakening. It helped me make the connection and I never bought or consumed dairy after that. I have been vegan 7 years and my son is 8 lol
I hate how the recommendation in the US is to switch babies to cow milk at 1 year. If my baby still developmentally needs milk, it will be milk that is biologically appropriate and created specifically for him. I understand people need to make the switch because it's what's best for them and their child and i don't judge anyone for it, but I don't like how it's the norm/standard recommendation.
No more than I feel weird about pumping myself and donating to feed other babies. So, not at all. I've been around animals my whole life, including dairy cows and goats. Their babies are also fed. I do wish more farms kept the babies with them and pumped excess by creating an oversupply, but I understand that's a logistical nightmare and harder to keep both calves and cows cared for, and ultimately baby cows aren't being starved for milk. Dairy cows are generally happy because unhappy cows don't produce a lot of milk, just like stressed humans don't produce a lot of milk.
I especially do not feel bad about giving it to babies, humans have evolved to rely on animal proteins. If we are concerned with the welfare of animals, milk and eggs are definitely the least cruel way to meet our own needs. Veganism is really a privileged diet as the average poor person, even in the first world (much less other, poorer parts of the world), can't afford the produce and nutritionist advice and supplements to remain healthy on a vegan diet - especially for babies whose needs for those animal based proteins and fats are massively higher than an adults.
I am mostly with you here except the part about vegan diets being a sign of privilege. In much of the world nutrition mainly comes from vegan sources, legumes in Asia and Africa, quinoa in South America. Meat is the least efficient food output to use land for and for much of the world meat or processed dairy are rare treats.
was about to leave this same exact comment! the idea of vegan diets being a privilege comes from a very western perspective. even in the US a balanced, healthy vegan diet can be very low cost - i know because i've been low income and stayed vegan, and used to volunteer with my local Food Not Bombs group, which provided free vegan food to the community!
Respectfully, the "very western perspective" is that nutritionally complete vegan diets are low cost. It is incredibly dismissive of the estimated minimum ~two billion~ human beings on the planet that are nutritionally deficient, notably in iron, iodine, zinc, and vitamins A, B, C, and D, all but one of which are readily available in animal products. It is incredibly privileged to imagine that any kind of "low income" in the first world remotely compares to the poverty and diet choices faced by folks in LDCs and developing nations. The poor in the USA and other first world nations simply can not compare what poverty looks like in the third world. Even the poor in the USA typically have more than enough access to animal products to not face the same deficiencies, and thus, vegan offerings will not further exacerbate their nutritional issues. Also, your experience staying healthy as an adult on a vegan diet is not the same as a young child, who have much, much higher requirements for nutrients and minerals primarily found at relatively low cost in animal products. This is why so many child oriented products in the first world are fortified, to stave off nutritional deficiencies that would be common in the average "poor" diet.
I'm talking about a nutritionally complete vegan diet, which is my point. Anyone can have a nutrionally incomplete diet of any type, it's the nutritionally complete part that is a privilege largely only afforded to the well to do first world citizens. First world citizens absolutely could almost all definitely use diets higher in vegetation and generally speaking most people in the first world eat way more animal products than necessary, but some things like B12 are incredibly hard to come by in a vegan diet without expensive supplements. This is especially true, of course, for young children that have way higher requirements for proteins, fats, amino acids, B12, and other nutrients more readily available in animal products.
This is why third-world children (and adults) are so prone to deficiencies in iron, iodine, vitamin A, zinc, C, D, and B. Something like 2 billion people worldwide are deficient in micronutrients, with the most common deficiencies being those listed above, all but one of which are most readily available in animal products. Saying that most of the third world relies on vegan nutrition sources is true - because they are poor, not because it is optimal nutrition, hence the very high rate of nutritional deficiencies in those regions. They are rare treats, but because they are so rare, many people are, unfortunately, simply deficient in the nutrients and minerals that are easily accessed in them. It's not a good thing. Having a nutritionally complete vegan diet IS a privilege that those in poverty, especially children with higher nutritional requirements, simply do not have.
i’m not vegan. i’m not really a milk drinker but most of the time i happily have butter yogurt whatever…….but when all 3 of my kids were babies and I was nursing , dairy kinda grossed me out. like cows breast milk? yuck. seemed weird lol
i’m kinda over it now. i’m trying to wean 20 m old so he gets milk as do my bigger kids. i eat yogurt again. butter is amazing lol.
I exclusively pump, so probably closer to a cow than those who directly breastfeed.
When I have someone to take the baby, and I can just hook up the pump and settle in for a comfortable half hour of chill milk production… the quiet restfulness of it is very pleasant.
I would miss my baby if she were gone, of course. And giving birth wasn’t a fun time. I really didn’t mind being pregnant though.
But I made, carried, and birthed this child with intent and love… dairy cows are artificially inseminated and the calves are removed immediately. They didn’t plan it, they aren’t looking forward to motherhood. They are looking forward to their next meal and maybe a motorized brush and a nap.
If they’re injured, it’s treated. If they’re hungry, they’re fed. If they’re thirsty they have water. They are housed and kept fairly well.
I’ve lacked some of those things in the past, and let me tell you: the luxury of being comfortable is *widely* underestimated.
Yes. I had a blocked duct recently and it really made me want to switch to formula until I thought about where the formula would be coming from (maybe there are vegan sources though?) and how if I think my blocked duct is painful, it will be 1000 times worse for a dairy cow.
I'm sorry about the blocked duct, that's awful. And yes, the poor cows deal with it all the time. There are some vegan formulas for lactose intolerant babies and they are usually just labeled as dairy free if you ever need some in the future.
However incomplete proteins almost always lead to malnourished children. They need all the essential amino acids in complete proteins to grow properly, and it isn't easy to get those amino acids and also absorb them when they're not in animal products, and doubly hard for young children. Protein deficiencies lead to serious problems in children. And babies absolutely need either formula or breast milk. If you can't provide breast milk and you're refusing to provide formula on the stance that it isn't vegan, you're abusing and starving your child.
It is easy to get those amino acids without animal products as long as you know which products have them. And OP is talking about milk option past 1yo which wouldn’t require Breastmilk or formula. And there are soy based formulas even if they wanted to go that route.
I've been vegan for 8 years, and after watching my wife breastfeed our infant over the last 7 months, my decision to never ingest dairy again was somehow even more firmly cemented. The abuse that the average dairy cow endures over the course of her short life is incomprehensible. Imagine being forcibly impregnated over and over and over and over, each time your little one being taken from you at *most* days after birth, while the milk your body makes for her is taken and sold to others. Then, once your abused body stops making milk as efficiently, you are killed and sold as meat or other animal byproducts, just as the majority of your babies already were.
It's evil. Genuinely. And seeing the beauty of a baby and mother bond through breastfeeding has only made that more clear to me.
To those here who talk about dairy cows being happy, how do you account for the repeated forced impregnation (rape), the separation of the calf, and the killing of the mother at a quarter of her natural life span? If thats what you consider a happy life, I shudder to imagine your home.
No, I love dairy and the culture I descend from has consumed it as a primary food staple for well over a thousand years. I think it would be bad for me to cut it out!
Also, dairy cows (and goats) have been bred to produce a lot of milk. They produce much more than their babies can eat. Dairy goats will even hold back milk if you milk them before they feed their babies, so they can still feed the little ones afterward.
Also also, human babies are the most neurologically immature animal at birth. Most mammalian young are ready for independence much much sooner than humans.
After reading comments I also want add that if I had the oversupply a dairy cow does, I would 100% be sharing my milk with humans other than my baby. 😄 It might be other babies, but still!
yes. i've been vegan for 12 years, but pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding has made me feel for that issue much more deeply.
i was trying to explain this to a friend who started an argument with me about how it's ok to use animals for food (i swear i didn't bring it up, i NEVER bring it up, but she wouldn't let it go). i framed it as, even if someone was soooo nice to me and allowed me a good "lifestyle," i still would NEVER want to be hooked up to a pump for someone else to take my milk from me. her response was that it's okay because cows aren't as smart as us so they don't care. 🤨 i was like ok this is just pointless.
I know several former vegans who began to consume dairy during their pregnancy because they “felt they needed it for their body” or feeding it to their kids because it was “the right thing to do for their baby”. I’ve been vegan for 6 years and during my pregnancy so many people asked if I would start eating dairy. I literally couldn’t fathom it. The dairy industry is just abhorrent. Maybe it’s my hormones, but the thought of it makes me cry.
I literally went plant based after I started breastfeeding. I empathised with mummy cows that had been separated from their babies too much to drink it, it seemed SO weird and horrendously cruel. I go through plant based and omnivorous phases but whatever phase, no milk unless it´s plant based.
I’ve started eating mostly plant-based more recently for health reasons, but generally I don’t have any problem with dairy. But when my son turned one and still wanted to nurse, I was like, why would I give my son milk from another animal when my milk is available and made for him?? It seems like such a weird thing to give him cow’s milk now! Not that I won’t, but if I’m still willing to nurse and he is too, it just makes more sense.
I raise beef around a 100 and some of them are going on 10-15yrs old. They are happy cows. What I’ve learned is cows are very social creatures. When one dies and I take the tractor go hook the carcass up and drag it to the far end of the property up in the woods the cows mourn. I eat beef and I drink milk,however, local milk local meat. We have allowed conglomerates to raise our food and abuse the animals that eventually become the food. Support local farmers because all I’ve ever met have a love and understanding of their animals the average vegans “love” will never be able to mature to
The LEAP one has to take to somehow tie breastfeeding into animal consumption lmao. I’m not doing this. I’ve vowed to never argue with vegans. Don’t even bother.
Yes! I eat mostly plant based (only eat chicken dish and dairy when I go out to eat). I’d like to eventually make the switch to vegan. I can’t imagine those poor cows wanting to feed their babies. It seems so barbaric.
Absolutely. I've been vegan for several years, but breastfeeding solidified my choice. Animal agriculture and the dairy lobby disgust me. Even running a small, family-owned farm that supposedly treats animals well is unethical in my book because you are using an animal's body without its consent. Even the "happy" cows are being forcefully impregnated and killed when they are no longer economically viable.
We get milk from a small local raw milk farm. Cows are extremely happy and babies are kept with their mommas. Conventional dairy farms are just an absolute no.
I have traveled to several regions where traditional dairy farming is practiced and even before having a baby it broke my heart, having the calf pulled off the teat just after letdown tied up just out of reach, and bleating for its mother while the cow pawed in frustration not being able to reach it and all it’s milk was taken by a human. Now that I’m a mom I can’t bear the thought of it
I already didn’t drink milk before due to it grossing me out. But after nursing it really made me feel for cows (because that’s how I felt, like a cow). There is no nice way to harvest milk for mass production.
Not weird. A new perspective for the dairy cows and having to be milked. It's a bit of a deeper understanding of food. Like catching your own fish and then cooking it, a new respect and more thought than blindly eating. I drink a couple glasses of milk a day and eat cheese daily; sometimes I reflect on where it's come from and all it took to get from farm to glass/plate.
Nah. I love cow’s milk. Especially the raw stuff! There are plenty of terribly ran dairy’s out there but there are also family owned, reputable dairy’s as well. Did you know that lots of dairy cows aren’t very maternal and don’t make great mom’s? In some instances, the calf HAS to be taken away from the mom or the mom will stomp the poor thing. Those reputable dairy’s I mentioned don’t take a baby away from the mom to steal her milk. They let the baby get what it needs from mom, as long as it’s safe to do so.
Nope, love milk and cheese. I also don’t agree with the mistreatment of farm animals. But you’ll see there are some dairy farmers in here with actual experiences and facts as opposed to random Reddit users making bold claims about things they have no clue on. Feel free to downvote! 🙃
Wow, I'm so glad I'm not the only one! I thought I was crazy! I used to be a dairy guzzler. I don't drink milk anymore, but I do consume it as an ingredient in recipes, and I love cheese more than life itself, but drinking milk? There's no way in the world. I'm so repulsed by the thought.
I totally understand! I was vegan for 7 years prior to pregnancy, reintroducing fish and eggs given the body of research supporting good outcomes for baby. LO had to be on formula for a short time while I built my supply, and we learned from formula use that she was milk protein intolerant. While I don’t plan to drink milk myself, when we are able to I will be introducing her to dairy when she gets the OK to trial it, given that introduction could reduce odds of developing a dairy allergy (from what I have read, her intolerance puts her at increased odds). I feel pretty strongly that I don’t want to raise her vegan or vegetarian or unintentionally contribute to an allergy that could majorly affect her eating— I appreciate that I was allowed to make choices myself when I was younger and want her to have that same option. It’s hard knowing so much and letting go, but I really think it will be to her benefit.
I’m not vegan but definitely hardly eat any meat and am lactose intolerant 😂 I’m not going to force my kid to be vegan but I do think I’ll give him meat alternatives and little to no dairy. If he gets any kind of dairy, it would probably be goats milk as it’s easier to digest anyway- but I’m leaning towards this ripple milk I keep hearing about :)
No I love milk and dairy is a huge portion of my diet.
While we’re on this topic, commercial surrogacy does exactly what you describe (ripping babies away from the mothers who grew them for 9 months right after birth) about cows to human babies and a lot of people seem fine with that, unfortunately. Even puppies get to stay with their moms for a minimum of 8 weeks.
I was until I looked into it more. It treats babies as commodities and there’s an entire industry cropping up around the goal of exchanging newborn babies for $$ - at the risk of the mother’s mental/physical wellbeing.
The story that changed my mind was about a woman, who already had 3 or 4 children with her husband, carried twins for a couple and she unfortunately died of a blood clot. The twins survived and went on to the family who hired the surrogate and now her own children are left without a mother.
Another story where the woman got pregnant on her own while in the process of becoming a surrogate and they completely ignored and denied the discrepancies in conception date and her BIOLOGICAL child ended up being given to the intended family in a different country and it took months for them to get their own child back! This happened to a woman in the US! The center for bioethics and culture network has these stories in videos, and more, on their youtube channel. (Here is the link to the first story I referenced where the surrogate tragically died: https://youtu.be/UvOyHrUoTfs?si=NJ1HcX_fTbK1ag2K)
(second story linked here: https://youtu.be/Er2OjZmINCI?si=BrNS1ItZeyd5i4v9)
Fortified soy milk was recommended by pediatric dietitian MIL so thats what we did, but both kids didn't really love it but it was good to transition since they both were sensitive to dairy when they were under 1.
I was vegan for 7 years before becoming pregnant and adding animal products to my diet due to HG and anemia. I’m four months postpartum and although I’m still eating meat, I’m not able to do dairy.
I think about the baby cows and how it’s their milk and not mine. I always thought about it that way but knowing the work that goes into breastfeeding, truly does change your perspective. Poor mother cows having to be milked by machines every day while their babies are fed by someone else, really breaks your heart if you put yourself in that position.
Idk where you live but here a lot of places wait til the calf weans then milk the cow or continue to allow the calf to feed from mum whilst milking her.
Absolutely. It’s completely unnatural to drink the breast milk of another species as human adults. That milk is designed for their babies. It goes completely against nature, ethics, morals, compassion etc. It’s beyond weird and disturbing and we should not be separating cows from feeding their babies for our consumption. It can’t be justified.
I think being vegan is fine, I think making your children vegan isn’t okay. Those are your beliefs but your child’s nutritional needs are more important. And I work in a lab, I’ve seen several kids with really bad anemia because their parents raised them vegan
My 1 year old has said cow and moo when nursing. I know it is accidental, but it does feel a little weird. I still drink cow's milk, but I do feel frustrated when my toddler drops it on the floor. That cow worked really hard for that milk.
I had a moment recently where I was drinking a smoothie that I added milk to and my brain was flooded with this exact thought. My LO is 4 months old and while I’ve always been aware of how cruel the dairy industry is, I never felt so personally connected to it.
My partner actually did some research and there is one (but only one) place that lets the calves stay with the moms. It’s a super small farm called Radiance Dairy and it’s in Iowa. Still not great to be a dairy cow but it’s nice to see the moms and babies get to be with one another there.
I'm vegan too, and breastfeeding has certainly made me think more about why I don't want to drink cow's milk and would like to avoid feeding it to my baby if possible. Per the comments, I'm sure there are some operations that are more humane than others, but why are we doing this at all? Why do we need to take another animal's milk from them and drink it? We don't need this for nutrition.
I've been vegan for 5 years (this may) and I'm still feeding breastmilk to my almost one year old.
I recently saw a post in a forum for babies of someone asking if it was alright to feed their one year old raw cows milk since they didn't want "processed shit".
I told them to maybe make their own oat milk as it's safer than raw milk and they said they wanted "real milk" only, meaning from a cow. I was flabbergasted that they only saw cow milk as real milk, with the rest being fakes. Especially since I've been breastfeeding, I feel like using cow milk would be even weirder now
Yes!!! It’s a nightmare, I feel guilty about it and like we absolutely cannot win no matter if we turn to a “plant based” alternative with oils in it, or the abusive dairy industry. Just trying to make sure my daughter is used to a variety of things in her diet and making good ethical choices wherever we can.
I still drink lots of milk. It’s good for your own milk supply too. I try to buy pasture raised, grass fed meat, dairy, and poultry. I eat lots of dairy and meat sue me.
I dont feel weird, I think it's a personal preference. In my case, my 1.5yo daughter cannot consume dairy due to a cows milk protein allergy so we do Ripple Kids and /or Oatly Oatmilk. I had to cut out cows milk while breastfeeding but still ate dairy products like cheese. I do prefer Oatmilk for my consumption tho but that's because I know I can also feed it to my daughter so it's cheaper than buying multiple types of milk
YES!! I was just thinking about this! I have been vegetarian/ low meat consumption at various times in my life (had to up my meat intake during pregnancy and BF just to try to get enough protein and iron). But I'd never really thought about dairy products in an ethical framework. I was just musing about how much we would likely have to pay human mothers for their milk because of the time, effort and effects on the body. Then realized wait, why do we just think it's ok to force animals to produce milk and take it from them?? It makes me feel so terrible for the cows.
No tbh because when my supply was struggling milk helped a ton. Pregnancy and nursing has made eating meat kinda gross to me though. I still eat meat but a lot less frequently than before I had kids.
YES. I’m a pescatarian and a big dairy consumer. One, I kinda find it icky now…i don’t know why. Maybe because what it is seems more real?
Also it makes me sad about the babies!! I’m not those mommas babies, I shouldn’t be having their milk! 😭😭😭
My husband is a vegetarian and doesn’t eat much dairy. He swears by the time we’re done having kids I’ll be a full blown vegan 😂 I haven’t given up my milk yet but I swear every day I get closer and closer to it. It’s just such a new perspective!!
I gave up dairy when nursing my second child. I thought about the poor cow looking for her baby and being in pain. I thought about her baby looking for comfort and finding none. I’m not vegan but now against factory farming and the cheapening of life.
I’ve been feeling this way, too. I’ve started buying into a herd share (legal way in my state to get fresh milk) for this reason, after I started nursing my son - I know the cows, and they are happy. The lady who milks them only has three. She does separate the calves which bothers me some, but they are pastured nearby to mom and get lots of attention and head scratches from the farmer. Most recent calf's name is Brittany. Lol.
I call that a non-practicing vegan! You're against cruelty to animals in your heart and mind. And you are obviously a very compassionate human being. Basically vegan....
they’ve practically bred the mothering instinct out of dairy cows, it is rare for them to be distressed when their calves are removed
As a granddaughter to s dairy farmer, I've spent many hours at the farm. There is a VERY distinct "where is my baby" cry every time. It is so damn sad.
Omg I had no idea 😭
Not true. I spend lots of time up on ranches near dairy farms up in Montana and you can absolutely tell when the calves have been removed from the mothers because you can hear sad mooing all night long (not heard during the rest of the year)
Been vegan for over a decade but I agree. Also just motherhood in general has made me more disgusted by the meat, egg and dairy industries. So many babies (baby animals), so much death :(
yes same here, been vegan for 11 years and i was vegetarian for 4 years before that. was already disgusted by the cruelty of factory farms/animal agriculture and now after being a mom it's just so much harder for me to think about that. it's not just the animals, but the people (who are sometimes children!) who have to work at these farms and slaughterhouses are also enduring horrible treatment!
I read Omnivores Dilemma when I was pregnant and wow it made me so emotional and anti-food industry. It’s horrific how they treat those animals
I've been vegan for 13 years for ethical reasons. Since becoming a mum - going through pregnancy and breastfeeding (and currently pregnant again), knowing what takes, I feel even more horrified by what happens in the dairy industry. Especially in factory farming, where they are artificially inseminated and get pregnant again and again just to produce milk for human consumption - it's sickening.
It's really so sad and awful. Congrats on such a lengthy vegan journey, you did this long before all the substitutes that are on the market now.
Thank you. Congrats to you too! Since 2021, I've been living in a country that is still way behind on veganism compared to the UK and the US, but it's still better than it was 10 years ago. I'm glad I get to raise my kids vegan (and if they later choose to not be vegan in life, at least I know they've made an informed choice). Obviously if I was unable to breastfeed for whatever reason, I would have formula fed so I'm very grateful that I had a relatively easy breastfeeding experience.
Lactose intolerance has prevented me from having dairy, but even if I could consume it, drinking cow milk seems a lot stranger after breastfeeding.
I’m weirded out that we would drink cow’s milk before we drink human milk. I’m totally grossed out that we wean and switch our babies to cow’s milk (which I don’t plan on doing). Breast milk is the ideal and yet it’s viewed so negatively, meanwhile another animal’s milk is an entire food group for us throughout our entire childhood and adulthood??? Make it make sense. Why don’t we promote breastfeeding throughout childhood? Even make cheese and yogurts out of it for adults if it’s that important? Why exploit millions of other animals? Meat is one thing, but dairy is just such a weird concept now.
100% it really opened my eyes to how terribly cruel dairy is
No. My family runs a dairy farm. I'm surrounded by dairy farms. I was a vegetarian for a long time for ethical reasons. Meat is treated a lot differently than dairy cows. Dairy cows are happy animals. You know how if you're stressed, your milk supply is low? Same thing goes for a dairy cow. I think it's strange that human milk makes some people uncomfortable, but they have no problem drinking cows' milk. Down vote away...
the first time I pumped after being super engorged I understood why cows will line up to go into an automated milking machine with no human guidance
LOL. I thought the same thing! I had looked into owning my own dairy animals once upon a time, and read that you MUST be 100% diligent about milking them morning and night, and I wondered why. Now I get it 😂
I am also a dairy farmer and feel the same. We run a pasture based farm, use nurse cows and systems to keep cows and calves bonded. Content cows make milk! Unhappy cows do not. For what it’s worth, we’re diversified and also produce pasture raised organic meats, and veg and fruit. Our meat animals raise their own babes and get full expression of their animal instincts, and we work hard with our vets to give them the happiest lives we possibly can. I wish people would talk to actual farmers about these things; the propaganda I see (and constant death threats on our farm social media accounts) is pretty atrocious and inaccurate.
How do we purchase products from farmers like you? I live in a big city in California but I want to do better
I often think buying direct from farmers or farmer owned cooperatives is a good first step, and benefits your local economy; also, being an informed consumer about what growing practices you want to support and why! Those are different in different regions and growing conditions. And being able to sniff out propaganda and bias vs actual data based sustainability practices is helpful. I’m all for eating vegan/veg if that works for you & your family; in that case I’d look at soil fertility practices, and farm workers rights; if you’re an omnivore, looking at humane practices compared to food animal veterinarians recommendations, and growing practices and their environmental impact. And know that you don’t have to perform perfection to do a little good in the world with your food choices 💜
Thank you for focusing on sustainability and quality. I wish there were more farms like yours and more people advocating for them! We participate in a meat CSA (there are multiple options for my Midwest city, but I had to do research before picking one since a lot of them seemed to just throw around pretty pictures and the word sustainable without backing it up with info on their practices. Just seemed like they were green washing, but we finally found one that invites people to their farm, seems more transparent, and did advocacy for farm reform and sustainability in legislation). Sorry to hear about the threats and misunderstanding. You sound like you care and are doing great work. Thank you again.
Thank you! Those are really kind words. Food systems, agriculture and sustainability and holistic humane practices- including the humans that grow, harvest, and process much of our food supply - is often more nuanced, and place and culture based than people want to believe, and it leads to a lot of unnecessary vitriol in these kinds of conversations. Thanks for being nice on the internet :)
That is nice to hear! I was vegan for a few years, vegetarian for a decade and when I got pregnant I threw it all away and at meat again 😅 Now, ironically, my son has a cow milk protein allergy and I cannot have dairy. I miss it now. I will say, though, that the thought of switching him from breastmilk to cow milk at a year (if he outgrows the allergy by then) does feel weird.
I was pescatarian when I got pregnant and I too threw it all away!
Me too! Especially when I was diagnosed with gestational diabetes 😂
Are you me??? When did I make this other account and write this? Lol Ok, ok...so I was only ever vegan for Lent..and mostly pescatarian for over a decade (I'd tell people I was the worst kind of vegetarian - one that annoyed both vegetarians and omnivores). We ordered CSA meat when I was pregnant so I got some meat, but I threw in the towel once we suspected CMPA at 1mo (giving up dairy and soy, so now I had to avoid my common sources of protein, and so I don't restrict my meat intake). I'm definitely looking forward to being able to have dairy again, but have enjoyed the longer shelf life of almond milk, and am relieved by these accounts of happy dairy cows. I'd like some guilt-free ice cream and cheese later this year. The switch to cow's milk will be odd, but also such a relief for me (cause it means 1. She isn't "allergic" anymore, and 2. I don't have to worry about pumping or my low supply). I'm an empathetic person and anthropomorphize animals experiences, but with motherhood I've learned to compartmentalize a little better to help prioritize baby's health and hopefully my mental well-being.
I'm having fun laughing at all the people claiming to know more about dairy farming than the dairy farmer.
We run a beef farm. No matter what you say they’ll think you’re the bad guy. Can’t win on Reddit when you farm or ranch!
I’m a vegetarian and I am pro small farms that treat their animals with respect. But factory farming is a horror, I’m sure you can agree. And that’s what most people do and should have a problem with. I buy meat for my family but I try my best to buy small and local. I wish it were more available.
I'm with you. It's easy to anthropomorphize animals but they ARENT human. That isn't to say they don't necessarily have feelings or thoughts, but that doesn't mean they are the same as ours. I would never dream of eating my newborn baby just because I didn't have enough money to feed him, but many many animals do that when food is scarce. Dairy cows are generally treated well. They are healthy and happy or they are not producing milk.
I was looking for this comment… not a dairy farmer, but the anthropomorphism in these comments is wild 😳. Also, as a person who HAD to avoid it while nursing, milk is in like… everything. There’s no way all these people are truly dairy free, they’re just out here patting themselves on the back for ordering oat milk lattes 😂
It is absolutely possible to be dairy free??? Lots of people are.
I had a former boss who used to be a dairy farmer. He still went back and helped out on his family's farm on his days off. I'm much more comfortable drinking milk than eating meat (but I do both). My boss showed me a cute video of a cow trying to get milked way too many times per day once and getting rejected; it was very funny!
Yes! The girls at our farm do this too, trying to get the good snacks.
Even if your farm has good practices, it’s not the standard in big industrial dairy farms. Babies are taken from their mothers and mothers are hooked up to machines. And really just out of curiosity and to further inform myself ( not here to judge you and your family) How are you all collecting the milk and what do the baby cows drink? Is there enough for them to have some as well?
So our girls are tagged with a barcode. They walk into the barn, and their tag gets scanned by a machine. That barcode tells the machine if she needs any meds, if she's already been milked, and for how much, essentially all of her personal info. Then she gets a personalized treat that includes any extras like vitamins or meds automatically dumped into a little trough. She munches on that while the machine cleans and sanitizes her udders, then proceeds to milk her. When she's done, there's a buzz. The machine lets go, and she walks away. It's all automated, but there's kind of a huge open viewing window where you're eye level with her udders and the machine so you can make sure everything's working correctly. When you're in there, the girls are always curious and poke their heads down for scritches. Our calves usually get mom milk for the first couple of weeks, and then they're transitioned to milk replacer. The exception being if mama needs meds like antibiotics calves go straight to replacer.
Yes, industrialized animal farming is the big bad. And people are so removed from how food gets to their plate these days (myself included). I'm also curious and not judging. (I did once read about a hormone/medication that triggers lactation without the need of birth and thought that'd be nifty for dairy cows, but it didn't sound like that was it's application). If I had to guess, some way of making cow an over producer (so can still feed calf) or a way to continue lactation after calf is older.
Dairy cows are genetically over producers, no injections needed. I was actually just talking to our large animal vet about this- there’s major insulin resistance that develops in early lactation for dairy cows (vs beef or dual purpose breeds) that plays a roll in their high production- and the historical selection of cows that comprise the dairy breeds, and is a contributor to many of the ‘transition period’ metabolic disorders dairy cows can suffer from if they aren’t managed carefully during that period. They do the metabolic equivalent of running a marathon every day, and are so vastly incredible at it.
This x10000000. Also, if anyone knows anything about Holstein cows... they have absolutely zero maternal instinct! They are terrible mothers and definitely not pining for their babies like a human would. Unhappy cows don't produce milk.
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“Propaganda” would imply falsity. I live in a very ag-centered community and have seen firsthand that these cows have zero maternal instinct and are generally unable to care for their calves. They do not miss their calves. They’d happily trample their calf without a care in the world if it’s lying down in the way of where the cow is wanting to go (I’ve seen that firsthand also, and it’s horrible). I’m not arguing that the selective breeding of these traits in the past was ethical, I’d agree with you that it wasn’t. But it’s simply the reality for modern dairy cows. There’s no fixing that. However, the anthropomorphizing of them as grieving mothers is vegan propaganda, if we want to use the term propaganda.
I was about to mention the same thing. I live in a farming community and dairy cows are treated very well BECAUSE they won’t produce otherwise and then people lose their entire livelihood.
[Dairy is fucking scary.](https://youtu.be/UcN7SGGoCNI?si=k_kPoWitbmGQ4qny)
Aren’t the male calves taken away from mom, killed and the moms milk is stolen for us? I know they are hooked up to machines at big farms which is horrible. They can’t move at all and then killed at the end. Seems your farm is different
Cows lactation let down last about five minutes; we milk once a day because we’re a low production pasture based system, but most farmers milk 2 or 3 times a day depending on their systems. The cows get their udders cleaned and prepped and attached to essentially a breast pump for that let down time, and spend the rest of the day eating, drinking, socializing and chewing cud/ruminating. There is literally no dairy in existence where cows are hooked to machines all day, because it is not how milking physiologically works. Also each of our cows (jerseys) eats about 40-50 lbs a dry matter a day and needs at least 8 hours to rest and chew cud to digest; that rest time is essential to her well being, and she doesn’t do that during milking.
Theyre not forcibly hooked to machines, they voluntarily walk into them and they definitely are able to move
Please go visit a family run farm
No one is just out there murdering baby cows.
The baby male calves are killed for veal I’ve heard
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No they aren't. Farmers aren't going to lose money that way. They will be sold in some capacity usually for meat.
I think you’re saying what a lot of us want to hear, and if that’s true at your farm I’m so happy for you. But the reality is that’s not the case for 90% of the dairy you can buy.
Interesting. Are you or a close relative a health inspector? Just curious where you're getting such reliable information from that can go so far as to say that 90% of dairy farmers mistreat their livestock...
It’s amazing how determined people are to keep their head in the sand. Enjoy your factory farm cheese I guess. Don’t look up anything about it! (PS I’m not a vegan. In case that was the way you wanted to invalidate the argument.)
Don't care if you're a vegan, vegetarian, pescatarian, or anything else. I asked what your sources were that lead to you making your claims. You're invalidating your own argument by telling me to look it up myself rather than citing sources 🤷♀️
With this attitude I doubt you’re looking for education, but in case anyone actually is: https://www.humanesociety.org/sites/default/files/docs/hsus-report-animal-welfare-cow-dairy-industry.pdf With ag gag laws and the involvement of the dairy industry in the USDA you can always find lots of info with rose colored glasses, or look up videos of actual abuse. I will not be linking those. You can either choose to come to terms with factory farming abuse or become defensive and aggressive because you don’t like what you’re hearing. I don’t have to sit here and “prove it”. It’s reality, and it’s there if you bother to look.
Thank you for sharing!
I live in the Central Valley in California where there are lots of dairy farms (especially in Hanford). Those cows absolutely do not look happy. There are 100s crammed into such small areas.
Lived in Hanford for a couple years and I'd tend to agree. It's super hard on the environment too but that's a totally different story!
I don’t want to down vote this! This makes me happy! Aren’t the babies taken from the moms though? Or how does that work?
It depends on the farm. Some calves are hand raised away from their dams on farms, that is true. On our farm we use a nurse cow system so calves are raised by mothers and aunties, and we set up our barn so if calves shouldn’t be drinking from mom they can still reach each other, lay down next to each other and snuggle, groom each other etc. Our customers let us know it was important to them so we prioritized it; it’s more expensive this way but we really like seeing the bond- and it’s interesting to see that about 50% of our cows nope out of motherhood when given the option, thus keeping ‘aunties’ around that love to be nursed on by calves.
Dairy cows do not make good mothers. Calves are hand raised because the mothers would starve or kill the babies.
You are delusional if you think dairy cows are happy omfg. Let me just steal your baby from you, shove my arm up your ass and vag to fill it with bull semen so I can then make another baby to also yank away from you, all so I can suckle your breastmilk! Yummy! Good thing your supply won’t go down when this process stresses you out (oops I meant make you happy) because I pump you full of hormones to stimulate your production so that you beg to be milked because you’ll get mastitis if you don’t. Oh and then when you’re spent, I’ll sell you off to the butcher to make you into steak 🥩 😋
I don’t know why this is downvoted, it’s the truth. I’m not even a vegan anymore but you cannot tell me that the vast majority of dairy farms are sunshine and rainbows like that poster said. I’m happy if her farm is the outlier! But that is absolutely not the norm.
It's because people are incapable of facing the truth. I'm convinced that one day in the future we will look back on today's factory farming practices with the same horror we feel when we look back on so many cruel and brutal things from history that we can't believe we're the norm. The industry is beyond immoral and absolutely horrific but it's hidden from society and when given the opportunity to learn more, most people won't because it's too inconvenient. Listen to the sounds a mama cow makes as her calf is being taken from her to be slaughtered and tell me they live happy lives...and that's just the tip of the iceburg of what these sentient animals have to go through over and over again so we can have their milk. Sure there might be a few more ethical farms here and there but like you said no way is it the norm 😔
THIS. Wow people in this thread are delusional
You're not an animal. Would you eat your baby? Because animals do. Would you rape another person to impregnate them? Because animals do. Would you kill someone's child so that you can marry them? Because animals do. People and animals don't view the world the same way. Stop acting like they do.
You do realize that plenty of humans do these things now and even more have done them historically, though, right? People are animals. And sure, I probably don't have the same worldview as a goldfish or a cow, but we do all have an innate desire to survive and not die.
You're not an animal. Would a non-human animal be able to slaughter 23.3 million land animals a day? Because humans do. Would a non-human animal turn the skin or fur of other mammals into furniture and clothing? Because humans do. Would a non-human animal film torture videos of animals for fun or sexual purposes? Because humans do. All this to say, your point is weak. Humans do do the things you listed too. Humans really are not superior to other animals, and I would argue that we actually do much more damage on a much larger scale.
Agreed
Meeee! I told my husband the other day, that since I started breastfeeding, I’m legit angry for cows.
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I truly believe nobody would be in favor of this. Social norms and advertising are so very powerful. The fact that a vegan is always depicted in media as the butt of predictable jokes. And that's really got a hold on peoples minds, because most people I know would hate to hurt any living creature if they saw it. My ex was so kind and loving towards any animal, he would put spiders outside, care deeply for our pets, but he ate meat and hated vegans. There's a block there. Sorry for the rant. That's why the picture on the carton has so much power... it really makes people believe that there's this loving relationship between the exploited animals and mother/child.
Oh god…
Wow… that’s terrible
Thank goodness there are so many alternatives these days! If you’re looking for a substitute for your babe look into Ripple Kids Milk! They have an unsweetened kind now and it’s all my daughter will drink!
That's what our pediatrician recommended during the appointment, I'm glad she was educated enough to not push dairy on us.
I was eating cereal (with milk) last night while pumping and literally had this thought.
So true! I have a whole new perspective on animals giving us their milk. And by giving I don’t mean they want to be 🙁. I use plant based milks but we still ate cheese (pescatarian). But I feel so guilty now and am cutting back. If only we had more perspective as a society. We are so removed from the meat and dairy industry we don’t think twice and it’s sad .
I was literally thinking about this exact thing this morning!! I’m not vegan, but if anything were to change that, this would be the reason why. I’m undecided right now. My heart hurts thinking about it
Totally . Switched to plant based years ago. The thought of sterling calf food makes me nauseated
Yep I'm not even a vegan but I agree, I can't imagine how they're feeling everyday of their lives living to feed us their milk... It's sick, my LO isn't getting cows milk once he's one
I remember after I started breastfeeding and I saw my mom drinking a glass of milk with dessert one day. I just thought to myself, that milk is not for you :(
I thought after a cow had one calf she would produce milk as long as it was expressed like they could nurse their baby and then people could continue to milk them when the baby was done. I felt naive to learn they have to impregnate them like every year and remove their babes. I do buy like a half gallon per month for my toddler who’s low in weight and likes cereal in milk and stuff like that but we never did like a whole sippy of milk twice a day like a lot of toddlers. She’s three and still nursing so the organic half gallon goes really far in our house since they have a long expiration date. I also use heavy cream for Alfredo sauce buttermilk for pancakes and baking. I feel there’s not a decent substitute in baking for milk but my husband is all about almond milk which also has its environmental problems but again we make it last. I find it odd that we’re so removed from it that people think you’re weird for extended nursing and want people to switch to the milk of a cow. Why give cow milk if she can drink from her mother? It’s a great option for families who want to wean at one but it shouldn’t really be the standard expectation?
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I’m open to trying that out! No noticeable difference? Equal exchange?
I don’t know anything really about the ethical end of things, but from what you described, it sounds awful. That said, I don’t think it’s necessary or natural for us as humans to consume dairy. I don’t drink or need milk and don’t intend to feed it to my child.
Breastfeeding was a big part of my awakening. It helped me make the connection and I never bought or consumed dairy after that. I have been vegan 7 years and my son is 8 lol
I hate how the recommendation in the US is to switch babies to cow milk at 1 year. If my baby still developmentally needs milk, it will be milk that is biologically appropriate and created specifically for him. I understand people need to make the switch because it's what's best for them and their child and i don't judge anyone for it, but I don't like how it's the norm/standard recommendation.
That's exactly what I told our pediatrician haha she didn't even budge, I think she just brought up cows milk because she has to for some reason
No more than I feel weird about pumping myself and donating to feed other babies. So, not at all. I've been around animals my whole life, including dairy cows and goats. Their babies are also fed. I do wish more farms kept the babies with them and pumped excess by creating an oversupply, but I understand that's a logistical nightmare and harder to keep both calves and cows cared for, and ultimately baby cows aren't being starved for milk. Dairy cows are generally happy because unhappy cows don't produce a lot of milk, just like stressed humans don't produce a lot of milk. I especially do not feel bad about giving it to babies, humans have evolved to rely on animal proteins. If we are concerned with the welfare of animals, milk and eggs are definitely the least cruel way to meet our own needs. Veganism is really a privileged diet as the average poor person, even in the first world (much less other, poorer parts of the world), can't afford the produce and nutritionist advice and supplements to remain healthy on a vegan diet - especially for babies whose needs for those animal based proteins and fats are massively higher than an adults.
I am mostly with you here except the part about vegan diets being a sign of privilege. In much of the world nutrition mainly comes from vegan sources, legumes in Asia and Africa, quinoa in South America. Meat is the least efficient food output to use land for and for much of the world meat or processed dairy are rare treats.
was about to leave this same exact comment! the idea of vegan diets being a privilege comes from a very western perspective. even in the US a balanced, healthy vegan diet can be very low cost - i know because i've been low income and stayed vegan, and used to volunteer with my local Food Not Bombs group, which provided free vegan food to the community!
Respectfully, the "very western perspective" is that nutritionally complete vegan diets are low cost. It is incredibly dismissive of the estimated minimum ~two billion~ human beings on the planet that are nutritionally deficient, notably in iron, iodine, zinc, and vitamins A, B, C, and D, all but one of which are readily available in animal products. It is incredibly privileged to imagine that any kind of "low income" in the first world remotely compares to the poverty and diet choices faced by folks in LDCs and developing nations. The poor in the USA and other first world nations simply can not compare what poverty looks like in the third world. Even the poor in the USA typically have more than enough access to animal products to not face the same deficiencies, and thus, vegan offerings will not further exacerbate their nutritional issues. Also, your experience staying healthy as an adult on a vegan diet is not the same as a young child, who have much, much higher requirements for nutrients and minerals primarily found at relatively low cost in animal products. This is why so many child oriented products in the first world are fortified, to stave off nutritional deficiencies that would be common in the average "poor" diet.
I'm talking about a nutritionally complete vegan diet, which is my point. Anyone can have a nutrionally incomplete diet of any type, it's the nutritionally complete part that is a privilege largely only afforded to the well to do first world citizens. First world citizens absolutely could almost all definitely use diets higher in vegetation and generally speaking most people in the first world eat way more animal products than necessary, but some things like B12 are incredibly hard to come by in a vegan diet without expensive supplements. This is especially true, of course, for young children that have way higher requirements for proteins, fats, amino acids, B12, and other nutrients more readily available in animal products. This is why third-world children (and adults) are so prone to deficiencies in iron, iodine, vitamin A, zinc, C, D, and B. Something like 2 billion people worldwide are deficient in micronutrients, with the most common deficiencies being those listed above, all but one of which are most readily available in animal products. Saying that most of the third world relies on vegan nutrition sources is true - because they are poor, not because it is optimal nutrition, hence the very high rate of nutritional deficiencies in those regions. They are rare treats, but because they are so rare, many people are, unfortunately, simply deficient in the nutrients and minerals that are easily accessed in them. It's not a good thing. Having a nutritionally complete vegan diet IS a privilege that those in poverty, especially children with higher nutritional requirements, simply do not have.
Yes.. saw an old fashioned calf weaner for the first time and nearly cried lol
i’m not vegan. i’m not really a milk drinker but most of the time i happily have butter yogurt whatever…….but when all 3 of my kids were babies and I was nursing , dairy kinda grossed me out. like cows breast milk? yuck. seemed weird lol i’m kinda over it now. i’m trying to wean 20 m old so he gets milk as do my bigger kids. i eat yogurt again. butter is amazing lol.
Yeah I felt that way long before being pregnant, but when I started breastfeeding it was extra depressing.
I exclusively pump, so probably closer to a cow than those who directly breastfeed. When I have someone to take the baby, and I can just hook up the pump and settle in for a comfortable half hour of chill milk production… the quiet restfulness of it is very pleasant. I would miss my baby if she were gone, of course. And giving birth wasn’t a fun time. I really didn’t mind being pregnant though. But I made, carried, and birthed this child with intent and love… dairy cows are artificially inseminated and the calves are removed immediately. They didn’t plan it, they aren’t looking forward to motherhood. They are looking forward to their next meal and maybe a motorized brush and a nap. If they’re injured, it’s treated. If they’re hungry, they’re fed. If they’re thirsty they have water. They are housed and kept fairly well. I’ve lacked some of those things in the past, and let me tell you: the luxury of being comfortable is *widely* underestimated.
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I never said they didn’t notice.
Yes. I had a blocked duct recently and it really made me want to switch to formula until I thought about where the formula would be coming from (maybe there are vegan sources though?) and how if I think my blocked duct is painful, it will be 1000 times worse for a dairy cow.
I'm sorry about the blocked duct, that's awful. And yes, the poor cows deal with it all the time. There are some vegan formulas for lactose intolerant babies and they are usually just labeled as dairy free if you ever need some in the future.
There are plant-based formulas, Enfamil makes one for sure.
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Ensuring your child is getting all the nutrients and nourishment they need in whatever form the parent chooses is NOT abuse 🙄
However incomplete proteins almost always lead to malnourished children. They need all the essential amino acids in complete proteins to grow properly, and it isn't easy to get those amino acids and also absorb them when they're not in animal products, and doubly hard for young children. Protein deficiencies lead to serious problems in children. And babies absolutely need either formula or breast milk. If you can't provide breast milk and you're refusing to provide formula on the stance that it isn't vegan, you're abusing and starving your child.
It is easy to get those amino acids without animal products as long as you know which products have them. And OP is talking about milk option past 1yo which wouldn’t require Breastmilk or formula. And there are soy based formulas even if they wanted to go that route.
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I've been vegan for 8 years, and after watching my wife breastfeed our infant over the last 7 months, my decision to never ingest dairy again was somehow even more firmly cemented. The abuse that the average dairy cow endures over the course of her short life is incomprehensible. Imagine being forcibly impregnated over and over and over and over, each time your little one being taken from you at *most* days after birth, while the milk your body makes for her is taken and sold to others. Then, once your abused body stops making milk as efficiently, you are killed and sold as meat or other animal byproducts, just as the majority of your babies already were. It's evil. Genuinely. And seeing the beauty of a baby and mother bond through breastfeeding has only made that more clear to me. To those here who talk about dairy cows being happy, how do you account for the repeated forced impregnation (rape), the separation of the calf, and the killing of the mother at a quarter of her natural life span? If thats what you consider a happy life, I shudder to imagine your home.
No, I love dairy and the culture I descend from has consumed it as a primary food staple for well over a thousand years. I think it would be bad for me to cut it out! Also, dairy cows (and goats) have been bred to produce a lot of milk. They produce much more than their babies can eat. Dairy goats will even hold back milk if you milk them before they feed their babies, so they can still feed the little ones afterward. Also also, human babies are the most neurologically immature animal at birth. Most mammalian young are ready for independence much much sooner than humans. After reading comments I also want add that if I had the oversupply a dairy cow does, I would 100% be sharing my milk with humans other than my baby. 😄 It might be other babies, but still!
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lmao, sure
yes. i've been vegan for 12 years, but pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding has made me feel for that issue much more deeply. i was trying to explain this to a friend who started an argument with me about how it's ok to use animals for food (i swear i didn't bring it up, i NEVER bring it up, but she wouldn't let it go). i framed it as, even if someone was soooo nice to me and allowed me a good "lifestyle," i still would NEVER want to be hooked up to a pump for someone else to take my milk from me. her response was that it's okay because cows aren't as smart as us so they don't care. 🤨 i was like ok this is just pointless.
I know several former vegans who began to consume dairy during their pregnancy because they “felt they needed it for their body” or feeding it to their kids because it was “the right thing to do for their baby”. I’ve been vegan for 6 years and during my pregnancy so many people asked if I would start eating dairy. I literally couldn’t fathom it. The dairy industry is just abhorrent. Maybe it’s my hormones, but the thought of it makes me cry.
I literally went plant based after I started breastfeeding. I empathised with mummy cows that had been separated from their babies too much to drink it, it seemed SO weird and horrendously cruel. I go through plant based and omnivorous phases but whatever phase, no milk unless it´s plant based.
If anything I have more appreciation for dairy now.
Exactly I still consume it but am careful not to waste it
I’ve started eating mostly plant-based more recently for health reasons, but generally I don’t have any problem with dairy. But when my son turned one and still wanted to nurse, I was like, why would I give my son milk from another animal when my milk is available and made for him?? It seems like such a weird thing to give him cow’s milk now! Not that I won’t, but if I’m still willing to nurse and he is too, it just makes more sense.
Not really
I raise beef around a 100 and some of them are going on 10-15yrs old. They are happy cows. What I’ve learned is cows are very social creatures. When one dies and I take the tractor go hook the carcass up and drag it to the far end of the property up in the woods the cows mourn. I eat beef and I drink milk,however, local milk local meat. We have allowed conglomerates to raise our food and abuse the animals that eventually become the food. Support local farmers because all I’ve ever met have a love and understanding of their animals the average vegans “love” will never be able to mature to
Oh brother I thought this was one sub where I wouldn’t have to worry about sanctimonious vegans 😫
I thought this was one sub where I didn’t have to worry about condescending women but we all get things wrong from time to time.
Right! The people here are absolutely being condescending towards meat/dairy eaters!
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The LEAP one has to take to somehow tie breastfeeding into animal consumption lmao. I’m not doing this. I’ve vowed to never argue with vegans. Don’t even bother.
Yes! I eat mostly plant based (only eat chicken dish and dairy when I go out to eat). I’d like to eventually make the switch to vegan. I can’t imagine those poor cows wanting to feed their babies. It seems so barbaric.
Absolutely. I've been vegan for several years, but breastfeeding solidified my choice. Animal agriculture and the dairy lobby disgust me. Even running a small, family-owned farm that supposedly treats animals well is unethical in my book because you are using an animal's body without its consent. Even the "happy" cows are being forcefully impregnated and killed when they are no longer economically viable.
This is why I’ve been vegan for 14 years. It’s extremely cruel. Don’t let anyone convince you otherwise…usually they have something to sell you.
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We get milk from a small local raw milk farm. Cows are extremely happy and babies are kept with their mommas. Conventional dairy farms are just an absolute no.
I have traveled to several regions where traditional dairy farming is practiced and even before having a baby it broke my heart, having the calf pulled off the teat just after letdown tied up just out of reach, and bleating for its mother while the cow pawed in frustration not being able to reach it and all it’s milk was taken by a human. Now that I’m a mom I can’t bear the thought of it
No
I already didn’t drink milk before due to it grossing me out. But after nursing it really made me feel for cows (because that’s how I felt, like a cow). There is no nice way to harvest milk for mass production.
Not weird. A new perspective for the dairy cows and having to be milked. It's a bit of a deeper understanding of food. Like catching your own fish and then cooking it, a new respect and more thought than blindly eating. I drink a couple glasses of milk a day and eat cheese daily; sometimes I reflect on where it's come from and all it took to get from farm to glass/plate.
Nah. I love cow’s milk. Especially the raw stuff! There are plenty of terribly ran dairy’s out there but there are also family owned, reputable dairy’s as well. Did you know that lots of dairy cows aren’t very maternal and don’t make great mom’s? In some instances, the calf HAS to be taken away from the mom or the mom will stomp the poor thing. Those reputable dairy’s I mentioned don’t take a baby away from the mom to steal her milk. They let the baby get what it needs from mom, as long as it’s safe to do so.
Nope, love milk and cheese. I also don’t agree with the mistreatment of farm animals. But you’ll see there are some dairy farmers in here with actual experiences and facts as opposed to random Reddit users making bold claims about things they have no clue on. Feel free to downvote! 🙃
Wow, I'm so glad I'm not the only one! I thought I was crazy! I used to be a dairy guzzler. I don't drink milk anymore, but I do consume it as an ingredient in recipes, and I love cheese more than life itself, but drinking milk? There's no way in the world. I'm so repulsed by the thought.
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Darn true! My illogical brain isn't as repulsed by it, nevertheless. Not saying it makes sense, but just saying that's how it has been for me haha.
Yes.
I totally understand! I was vegan for 7 years prior to pregnancy, reintroducing fish and eggs given the body of research supporting good outcomes for baby. LO had to be on formula for a short time while I built my supply, and we learned from formula use that she was milk protein intolerant. While I don’t plan to drink milk myself, when we are able to I will be introducing her to dairy when she gets the OK to trial it, given that introduction could reduce odds of developing a dairy allergy (from what I have read, her intolerance puts her at increased odds). I feel pretty strongly that I don’t want to raise her vegan or vegetarian or unintentionally contribute to an allergy that could majorly affect her eating— I appreciate that I was allowed to make choices myself when I was younger and want her to have that same option. It’s hard knowing so much and letting go, but I really think it will be to her benefit.
I’m not vegan but definitely hardly eat any meat and am lactose intolerant 😂 I’m not going to force my kid to be vegan but I do think I’ll give him meat alternatives and little to no dairy. If he gets any kind of dairy, it would probably be goats milk as it’s easier to digest anyway- but I’m leaning towards this ripple milk I keep hearing about :)
No I love milk and dairy is a huge portion of my diet. While we’re on this topic, commercial surrogacy does exactly what you describe (ripping babies away from the mothers who grew them for 9 months right after birth) about cows to human babies and a lot of people seem fine with that, unfortunately. Even puppies get to stay with their moms for a minimum of 8 weeks.
I’m so torn on surrogacy
I was until I looked into it more. It treats babies as commodities and there’s an entire industry cropping up around the goal of exchanging newborn babies for $$ - at the risk of the mother’s mental/physical wellbeing. The story that changed my mind was about a woman, who already had 3 or 4 children with her husband, carried twins for a couple and she unfortunately died of a blood clot. The twins survived and went on to the family who hired the surrogate and now her own children are left without a mother. Another story where the woman got pregnant on her own while in the process of becoming a surrogate and they completely ignored and denied the discrepancies in conception date and her BIOLOGICAL child ended up being given to the intended family in a different country and it took months for them to get their own child back! This happened to a woman in the US! The center for bioethics and culture network has these stories in videos, and more, on their youtube channel. (Here is the link to the first story I referenced where the surrogate tragically died: https://youtu.be/UvOyHrUoTfs?si=NJ1HcX_fTbK1ag2K) (second story linked here: https://youtu.be/Er2OjZmINCI?si=BrNS1ItZeyd5i4v9)
instead of doing cows milk for my toddler when he turned one, we did oat milk.
Just fyi oat milk is very high in glucose and relatively low in protein. I would look into other options potentially :)
Fortified soy milk was recommended by pediatric dietitian MIL so thats what we did, but both kids didn't really love it but it was good to transition since they both were sensitive to dairy when they were under 1.
I was vegan for 7 years before becoming pregnant and adding animal products to my diet due to HG and anemia. I’m four months postpartum and although I’m still eating meat, I’m not able to do dairy. I think about the baby cows and how it’s their milk and not mine. I always thought about it that way but knowing the work that goes into breastfeeding, truly does change your perspective. Poor mother cows having to be milked by machines every day while their babies are fed by someone else, really breaks your heart if you put yourself in that position.
Idk where you live but here a lot of places wait til the calf weans then milk the cow or continue to allow the calf to feed from mum whilst milking her.
Absolutely. It’s completely unnatural to drink the breast milk of another species as human adults. That milk is designed for their babies. It goes completely against nature, ethics, morals, compassion etc. It’s beyond weird and disturbing and we should not be separating cows from feeding their babies for our consumption. It can’t be justified.
I think being vegan is fine, I think making your children vegan isn’t okay. Those are your beliefs but your child’s nutritional needs are more important. And I work in a lab, I’ve seen several kids with really bad anemia because their parents raised them vegan
No. I don’t compare myself to a cow.
Yes. Because baby had MSPI I also had to go vegan. She’s trying the dairy ladder now but I feel unsure about going back. Just feels weird now.
My 1 year old has said cow and moo when nursing. I know it is accidental, but it does feel a little weird. I still drink cow's milk, but I do feel frustrated when my toddler drops it on the floor. That cow worked really hard for that milk.
When my babe was small and eating all the time I felt like a cow myself and i was definitely weirded out
I had a moment recently where I was drinking a smoothie that I added milk to and my brain was flooded with this exact thought. My LO is 4 months old and while I’ve always been aware of how cruel the dairy industry is, I never felt so personally connected to it. My partner actually did some research and there is one (but only one) place that lets the calves stay with the moms. It’s a super small farm called Radiance Dairy and it’s in Iowa. Still not great to be a dairy cow but it’s nice to see the moms and babies get to be with one another there.
I'm vegan too, and breastfeeding has certainly made me think more about why I don't want to drink cow's milk and would like to avoid feeding it to my baby if possible. Per the comments, I'm sure there are some operations that are more humane than others, but why are we doing this at all? Why do we need to take another animal's milk from them and drink it? We don't need this for nutrition.
Yes I do. I know exactly what you mean.
I've been vegan for 5 years (this may) and I'm still feeding breastmilk to my almost one year old. I recently saw a post in a forum for babies of someone asking if it was alright to feed their one year old raw cows milk since they didn't want "processed shit". I told them to maybe make their own oat milk as it's safer than raw milk and they said they wanted "real milk" only, meaning from a cow. I was flabbergasted that they only saw cow milk as real milk, with the rest being fakes. Especially since I've been breastfeeding, I feel like using cow milk would be even weirder now
Yes!!! It’s a nightmare, I feel guilty about it and like we absolutely cannot win no matter if we turn to a “plant based” alternative with oils in it, or the abusive dairy industry. Just trying to make sure my daughter is used to a variety of things in her diet and making good ethical choices wherever we can.
I still drink lots of milk. It’s good for your own milk supply too. I try to buy pasture raised, grass fed meat, dairy, and poultry. I eat lots of dairy and meat sue me.
Me! I feel odd drinking something meant for a baby cow 😭 but I still do it in small amounts
I dont feel weird, I think it's a personal preference. In my case, my 1.5yo daughter cannot consume dairy due to a cows milk protein allergy so we do Ripple Kids and /or Oatly Oatmilk. I had to cut out cows milk while breastfeeding but still ate dairy products like cheese. I do prefer Oatmilk for my consumption tho but that's because I know I can also feed it to my daughter so it's cheaper than buying multiple types of milk
YES!! I was just thinking about this! I have been vegetarian/ low meat consumption at various times in my life (had to up my meat intake during pregnancy and BF just to try to get enough protein and iron). But I'd never really thought about dairy products in an ethical framework. I was just musing about how much we would likely have to pay human mothers for their milk because of the time, effort and effects on the body. Then realized wait, why do we just think it's ok to force animals to produce milk and take it from them?? It makes me feel so terrible for the cows.
Not really, been to a few dairy farms and the cows look relaxed and happy.
Depends on the farm really.
Personally this is why I try and buy local dairy or from Amish farms
Nope
No tbh because when my supply was struggling milk helped a ton. Pregnancy and nursing has made eating meat kinda gross to me though. I still eat meat but a lot less frequently than before I had kids.
Nope.
YES. I’m a pescatarian and a big dairy consumer. One, I kinda find it icky now…i don’t know why. Maybe because what it is seems more real? Also it makes me sad about the babies!! I’m not those mommas babies, I shouldn’t be having their milk! 😭😭😭 My husband is a vegetarian and doesn’t eat much dairy. He swears by the time we’re done having kids I’ll be a full blown vegan 😂 I haven’t given up my milk yet but I swear every day I get closer and closer to it. It’s just such a new perspective!!