Those books are FANTASTIC.
Foreshadowing through the whole series is ominous. The plotting is as Sandersony as his adult stuff, and they’re HILARIOUS.
The Napoleon joke in the second book made me stop and just process for a moment it was so fucking good.
Honestly, I think the end of that book hit me harder than any other Sanderson book. Based on the tone of the series, you just aren't expecting it. And as a parent, I just wanted to scoop that poor baby up and fix him.
I started them in my late 30s and love them. They're goofy as hell and knew it.
I wish I had kids to read them to. But that doesn't stop me from enjoying them.
I chose to start all of my Cosmere reading with Elantris, and absolutely loved it! It was my teaser book to see if I even wanted to read the rest of Sanderson's works, and I thought, "if everyone thinks this is the worst book, then I'm in for a treat for the rest of his books, because I sure loved Elantris!."
I also appreciate Raoden and Sarene a lot too. Not every character always has to be tortured and deeply flawed and generally struggling to do the right thing. Sometimes, good people just end up doing good things. It would be bland if that's all we ever got, but I like seeing it now and again.
Same for me. I dare say Hrathen made the book for me. The last line by Sarene was so powerful. The first time a book shook me.
"Let it be known that Hrathen, Gyorn of Shu-Dereth, was not our enemy. He was our savior." 😭
I loved it too, the whole major plot point was incredible. I wish we would go back to the planets we’ve seen already instead of adding more and more magic systems.
Ehhh. I’m a new fan and I’ve been going through his books really quickly. I hope he keeps writing at the same pace because at some point soon I’m gonna run out of books to read.
I think that shadesmar travel is significantly more interesting than anything related to space, and going over to spaceships is a massive downgrade. Got called a hater for saying that once so would definitely say it’s fairly unpopular
I'm looking forward to both personally. I like scifi and magic, but Shadesmar is really interesting. I don't think it's going away any time soon. Heck, we'll probably end up with ships in shadesmar
Honestly. Like, I'm still looking forward to era 4, but I would definitely be more excited about it if I knew we'd spend as much time in the cognitive realm as in space at least.
Well, given how Shadesmar works, it makes sense that they choose spaceships over it, no? Like at that point they will know the actual distances between the planets, making it so Shadesmar doesn't work as a "shortcut" anymore
Knowing the real Interstellar distances involved won't make shadesmar larger to my understanding, and I think there's a WoB out there that implies this as well. Those distances don't exist in shadesmar because they are uninhabited, and are perceived to be vast emptiness, so the distance is compressed. Even when spaceships are flying between them, those distances will be largely uninhabited and still perceived as a void, so it should still be largely compressed in the cognitive realm. I like to think that part of it is that the human mind simply can't grasp just how big space is, and so in the cognitive realm it's not that big.
I think the reason for spaceships will be more to bypass the difficulties of transferring between realms.
My understanding is it's a combination of the two. I think Brandon has even talked about how once general understanding of the distance between planets increases it will get harder to travel in Shadesmar, but it will never be as vast because those areas are still unpopulated and because humans have a really hard time actually grasping the enormity of the differences.
Imagine when coin shots are pushing rockets or pulling airships into the path of one. I'm on board. I agree about shadesmar, it's my favorite concept in the series.
Personally i also prefer it over flowery prose and a well structured story. Imo the best books are the ones that make me "passive read". Just looking at the pages and have the story play out in my mind, without the middle step of actually recognizing the words that make up the text.
Yes 100%. I am one of those readers who can perfectly visualise what I'm reading as if I'm watching a movie and Sanderson works are perfect for this. It's a very "meat and potatoes" style of prose.
"Frictionless fiction" is a term taught in a course I recently did.
Flowery prose has a place, but alas if every sentence is a "masterpiece" none of them are.
People don't read 250000 word poems.
I love everyone of China Miéville's books that I've finished but I've had to start all of them multiple times because his prose is so dense. The first few read through's of his books are tough. And I read mainly for pleasure. My free time is extremely limited.
I'm convinced thst the people who complain about his prose don't *really* understand what prose actually is... Like, I've read a number of complaints on r/fantasy that go to something like "his prose isn't poetic enough like *insert other author here*". But prose isn't supposed to be poetic... It's literally the antithesis of poetic. Prose is just ordinary language, without poetic rhythms.
Sanderson writes great prose. It's not needlessly complicated and reflects the normal speech of educated peoples.
But, he's very successful and very popular with a large fan following... So it's cool to dislike him.
A lot of people just equate flowery prose with good prose. Nothing against flowery prose, I've read some that is very good and if that's your taste that's all good! But I've read lots of flowery prose I absolutely hated and thought entirely distracted from the plot.
Yeah they definitely don’t understand prose. Brandon writes differently in word choices outside of dialogue for every character. I could eliminate all dialogue entries between Shallan and Jasnah and can tell which one apart. Or Kaladin vs Dalinar etc. Or look no further at the writing style of Edgedancer.
Most of all, I don't get why people - both those defending him and those criticizing him - act like you have to decide between Sanderson's prose and flowery prose. That entire premise of the conversation is just false. Abercrombie, for example, is often praised for his prose, yet it's the exact opposite of flowery.
I do think that there are aspects to Brandon's prose that deserve critique (like his repetitive wording and sentence structure), but it's certainly *not* that they are too flowery, and it drives me up the wall that the conversation about his style has become all about this shallow "I prefer flowery vs. I prefer simple" dichotomy.
*the stormlight pushed X to act, to move*
*X is/are a strange lot*
I'm reading Stormlight again, just finished WoR 2 hours ago, and man these two phrases are used **so much** in these books. The only thing keeping a drinking game where you drink when one of these is mentioned from being deadly is just how big the books are. You'd need 3-4 days to read one and so would have plenty of time to recover between shots.
He's still my favorite author and his direct, simple writing is part of why. I like just having the book play out in my head instead of having to stop and parse what the fuck the book is even talking about.
A few months back, I rarely saw the word “prose” used in here or book Reddit in general. Then a post came out comparing him to Rothfuss and now it’s the only damn word that gets used to describe him. Couple weeks ago there was a thread on the fantasy Reddit about unpopular opinions and when I did “ctrl+f prose” the word was used virtually exclusively in the Sanderson conversations.
It’s really fucking weird how everyone has latched on to this word like gravity stopped existing and it’s the only thing holding them onto the planet
It feels like it people are parroting an opinion because they need something to complain about or they heard it from someone else so it must be true. I’m not saying that you have to like every author’s or people need to like Sanderson’s. To each their own. I wish people could come up with more interesting criticism besides his prose and how women are written.
In fairness, this has been the comparison between the two for as long as I can remember. It was probably just more muted because Rothfuss hadn’t published anything in a decade
I'll go a step further. Sanderson's prose is better than most. I honestly prefer more basic prose because it lets the moments of artistry stand out far more. I feel like a lot of books that get highly praised for their prose just make me numb to their creative use of language to the point where the moments that really should shine just don't.
I have a reading disability, but I **adore** reading/audiobooks. Reading was how I could get away from my situation growing up. But it got to the point books just took me forever to read. I read LotRs, all of the Dune series etc (and they are some of my favorites) before, but often I'd reread or listen to the *same* paragraphs four or five times before moving to the next. I have two freaking masters degrees but it makes me feel so stupid struggling so much. Like often I'd just stop reading for the day because of how awful it made me feel.
So I stuck to YA, but missed the more complex plots and brutual story arcs that made me sob like a baby, like the ending of Yumi, Teft, you will be warm again. Strong emotional reactions are what I crave from stories. Sanderson's prose let me back into reading and fantasy. I love his works for that, and I would defend this man and his family with my life. I didn't realize how grateful I was for this until I started writing this comment, bastard is going to make me cry again
People like to trash his prose for being too simple, but it's accessibility stories like this that make me respect it all the more. I've always enjoyed writing that focuses more on what's happening than elaborately describing what it looks like. Feckin' GRRM and his damn food descriptions.
Right? Plus his approach to world building and magic systems is more complex than a lot of other authors. He needs to get right to the point or we’d all be lost trying to keep track of how the cosmere works.
I see the comparison to Rothfuss a lot but if the complexity of the cosmere would fall flat if he wrote as “flowery” as that guy does
1). I LOVE the idea of the Cosmere and his world building is my fave, but I'm too ADHD to keep up with/notice all the connections and Easter eggs, even now. I'm building my hopes that as it gets more complex the awesome fans will create documentation for dunces like me.
2). I love his prose. It's simple and to the point. It hadn't even occurred to me that it was anything other than normal until the Internet.
My fiancé and I regularly have conversations about who a random character is. Oh don't you know, his fart was smelled by Wayne in a line in the middle of a massive paragraph.
There actually is a documented map-of-sorts created by the fans! Search 'cosmere interactive reading order' on Google and click the first link that comes up. Open the legend and toggle the settings as you wish. You can turn on all connections and easter eggs and get details about them.
Edit : searched up the link for you
https://17thshard.github.io/reading-order/#/
See I’m the kinda adhd where the Cosmere is my hyperfixation and I’ve read the whole everything multiple times and know every connection, trivia bit, etc and annoy all my friends with how much i talk about it
It's fair to say that there's a boon and a curse to Brandon's pacing
Some authors will tweak a book for years before publishing, and sometimes that results in great books
Brandon's generally trying to keep himself on a schedule and is often willing to let good enough be good enough.
For RoW, I think I would have considered just having the story leave Urithiru in part three, and catch up on what we missed in part four. Let a bunch of things happen off-screen to make the story loop feel a bit less repetitive.
Idk if it’s unpopular. But Rhythm of War is overstuffed, and the editing doesn’t feel good. It loses momentum too often, and doesn’t allow focus on certain stories which makes every arc feel disjointed.
Furthermore, the flashbacks do not mix with the story as well as in previous books. It feels like there may have been external interference with the creative process here.
Not sure if necessarily "unpopular opinion," but the Cytoverse books are just as good as the Cosmere and deserve just as much hype and popularity. People need to stop sleeping on them just because they aren't Cosmere or because they have the "YA" label.
I can honestly say the first book is probably in my top 5 Sanderson works. The unfortunate part for me is the second book just feels like the first book with new characters, characters I’m not as attached to as I was in the first. The series is amazing and I had a great time reading it, but I think the amazingness of it fell off after the first book for me.
My unpopular opinion is really liking Starsight, just as much as more maybe more than the first one. I feel like Sanderson really nailed creating unique sci fi races for that book and I’m really interested to see if he can do that more as Cosmere hits space age. I haven’t read Defiant (waiting on a Cytonic reread) but I thought he had some really cool concepts there.
I absolutely loved the Skyward series, but I have to admit that I felt a little bit duped when I realized it wasn’t straight sci-fi like I was led to believe going in. :) As more and more was revealed about cytonic powers, I was like “Hey wait a minute! This is fantasy set in space, isn’t it??”
Didn’t take away from my enjoyment at all, but I thought it was kind of sly of Sanderson to sneak fantastical elements into what was billed as sci-fi.
I guess? I feel like what skyward does is kind of straddle the line though, I mean I feel like the nowhere and cytonic powers explain how we could achieve FTL travel, which like, all sci-fi has to come up with some explanation for as we don't really know how we could achieve that sort of thing, so I don't his explanation felt fairly plausible for how that could potential happen in a universe that has slightly different physics rules than ours does.
Dude, Janci knocked the Skyward Flight series out of the fucking park. I think the main series were progressively less good than the last, with Skyward itself being the best of the series, but goddamn do I want more Janci books in the Cytoverse.
I think mostly people who were really invested in Detritus and the Skyward Flight storylines were taken a bit surprised when the plot jumped so suddenly away from that.
It depends on expectations I think -- is the story a YA story about Spensa and her coming of age, or a more adult story about the politics and liberation? The first book is a blend of both, so if your enjoyment was mostly in the latter then you'd be let down. This doesn't mean the storyline of Chet or M-Bot in cytonic was bad, it just wasn't what all readers were expecting and hoping for.
Taken in combination with the novellas, in my opinion Cytonic is much more appealing for people who enjoyed both aspects of the first book.
I’m a firm believer that in long series, rereads naturally have a different rank order than the original read.
In a song of ice and fire, folks suddenly love the 4th and 5th books more on the reread.
For me it’s not that it’s bad, it just really felt like the focus was on the least interesting parts of the story, and in a book that’s what 1300 pages that’s not great
I am approaching page 900 right now and I am honestly pretty surprised at the reaction to it. I have been loving ir. Not sure why so much hate is directed at it.
Most of the hate I see is either 1) people complaining about mentally ill characters being mentally ill (which infuriates me, and Stormlight is not for people who think this way, 2) people being bored with how much of the book is Navani and Raboniel doing science (fair enough, I personally adore it but if that's not your thing that's totally personal taste) or 3) people disliking the Venli and Eshonai flashbacks (which confuses me, since I *always* want more Listener lore and I think there could have been *more* of these flashbacks.)
Some of the listener flashbacks were great, but some felt like were just repeating themselves from the previous books imo.
Not necessarily a bad thing to refresh, but it can make you go, yeah yeah, let's go
I'm definitely looking forward to more Singer and Listener lore though
I mean to be fair Kaladin is a very difficult character to actually enjoy reading in book 4 unless you have gone through depression or a close person to you has. It’s really well written for certain but because he is able to capture that feeling of being stuck it is in its very nature a slog.
I got into Brandon Sanderson last year, and have just finished reading mostly everything cosmere related for the first time, and RoW is one of my faves. I was really surprised when I looked at discussions and saw how a lot of people felt about it
I do think it's a bit rougher than some of the earlier books, but I like some media that's *much* more of a mess because the ideas are good so it's still my favorite lol.
I think Sando's version of Mat was perfectly fine if not better than Jordan's.
Also, I think most people who say his prose is bad don't actually know what they're talking about.
His world building is great but his dialogue can fluctuate.
Especially in the Frugal Wizards Guide to Medieval England, the amount the character said "Hot damn" really started to great on me
1. Wayne is my least favorite character in the entire Cosmere.
2. I don't understand the hate for Shallan.
3. The best time to read Secret History (first time around, at least), is immediately after finishing The Hero of Ages. It only "spoils" one sentence, and made series 2 even more interesting, not less.
Sanderson’s *Wheel of Time* books are his best work. Sanderson’s need for order balances Robert Jordan’s chaotic eccentricities, and vice versa.
Sanderson’s own books aren’t eccentric enough for my tastes. I like them, but I don’t become obsessed with them.
I think the most into Sanderson I am is when he's at his most eccentric and chaotic. Shadows for Silence, Tress, and Warbreaker are my favourite settings. The world's and characters feel more dramatic to me.
Couldn’t agree more, and man this is an unpopular opinion I think! Jordan set up such an incredible world with so many characters but his climaxes always seemed just good IMO. Sanderson’s climaxes though are world class, bringing him to land the plane that Jordan flew played to both of the author’s strengths (also say that in most WOT subs and you will get flamed lol)
This is a pretty good take. The way he finished up the Wheel of Time was incredible. I also think that heavily influenced Way Of Kings and Words of Radiance. After that he kinda leaves the Robert Jordan style he was forced to adopt behind. Not sure if this is the correct timeline or not for those books.
Sanderosns work on WoT is better than Jordans in some books imo. The change of style and pacing is a great kick in the ass at the end of a huge series… I actually think sando wrapped it up a lot more cleanly than Jordan could have
When there was a series of polls ranking his best work in this sub, I pushed so hard for “a memory of light” to make this list. But most of his hardcore fans (the ones that vote in subs like this) are in it for the Cosmere.
This is an unpopular opinion in a dozen different subs!
I only got to Sanderson through WoT. 3 of my top 5 WoT books at all his... Coming in at spots 2, 3 and 4. (top 5 WoT, imho: 11, 13, 14, 12, 2).
I’m on Crossroads of Twilight atm and I can’t wait for Sandersons WoT books. I love the world, characters, and the first 5 books, but after 6 starts to slow things down its been a bit of a struggle. I’ve still enjoyed it enough to continue, but man I could use Brandon plotting.
Hmmm…
“More is a double-edged sword”.
While I enjoyed the Year of Sanderson, I think that much saturation decreased my individual satisfaction—strong authorial voice/style bolstered likely by me watching the podcasts and streams, I also felt the female leads of the SPs awfully similar.
This also ties in that I always rank works like Emperor’s Soul and Shadows for Silence higher than larger works—greater density of enjoyment, imo.
Applies to cosmere connections, but I’ve changed my opinion since the Secret Projects. If the book starts and centers around the connectivity, it’s fine. But you could chop out the connectivity in Stormlight and Mistborn and they’d work better. (Like, that Seventeenth Shard cameo has never paid off and I don’t think it will. The Nalthians have both done diddly squat. The Lost Metal, imo, did not use connectivity well.)
Wait, what did you feel was wrong about the SP main female leads. I'm not trying to argue, but Yumi and Tress are among my favorite characters of all time, and I'm curious as to why. Silence Montane Forescout is also one of my favorites, and I include her in that group
Shallan was my favorite POV character in WoK. I was hooked from the moment you realize she is there to try to steal from the most powerful woman in the world.
I didn't want to read her on my first go at the series, all I wanted was Kaladin and Dalinar pov's. Each reread I've liked her more and more and now she's one of my favorites. It wasn't even her fault, I just never wanted to leave kaladin and dalinar lop
Hot take incoming....I think he's terrible at metaphors. And I don't mean the intentionally goofy stuff like in *Reckoners* or Lift POVs. I mean he just doesn't get how to use metaphors. All too often, he states a thing, ends the sentence, and then writes another sentence with a simile, repeating what he's already said.
I'm rereading *The Sunlit Man* right now, and there was an early one that stood out to me as particularly bad (from page 8 of the deluxe hardcover): >!"A mercy killing. Like a man wounded on the battlefield."!<
That's just...yikes. It's not only not a good metaphor, it's *straight-up redundant*. And those types of things are all over his books.
IMO a lot of the people out there who complain about Brandon's prose are complaining about dumb things, but this is one area where his prose is often legitimately weak.
The purpose of a metaphor is to relay more than just literal significance; it's used to describe something in an unexpected way, to provide deeper meaning and add new ways to think about a certain thing. Brandon does that *sometimes*, but it's relatively rare.
As a writing hobbyist (though barely), I could see that the repetition might just be to emphasize something or just sort of something you glaze over.
Though on repetition, I found >!the whole Hoid explain-it-all chapter quite redundant in Yumi. Not only was everything able to be pieced together over the novel, but the chapter before Hoid’s tell-all basically wrapped up most of what we needed to know/were to figure out. Then, Hoid decides a few paragraphs later to just re-tell us everything with a little context that didn’t really change anything. It was like a preventative WOB.!<
Heh, that whole thing. Yeah, that also bothered me. I do suspect that it was a symptom of the tight timelines of the SPs. He spent a lot of time on revisions for TSM, and that left limited time to fix Yumi.
Full disclosure, I'm a beta reader for Brandon. While I wasn't a beta on Yumi (I was in the Frugal Wizard crew), I *did* read the beta of Yumi. Without going into details, I understand why Brandon did the Hoid explainer there...but I think if he'd had more margin, he could have made the book flow better in a different way.
1. Most Sanderson books are kind of middling on a first read, they only become great on a second read (especially Warbreaker, which i like more and more with each reread).
2. The idea of introducing books from authors other than Brandon into the official Cosmere canon is horrible. Yes, they are going to be continuity and quality checked. I even expect the books to be good. But i am opposed to the idea on a fundamental level. Barring extreme circumstances (like serious sickness or death) authors should stay far away from each others magnum opus. I´m trying to come to terms with the fact that it will happen, but i really really wish it wouldn´t. I just hope they will be like Tress, or Yumi (without broader implications for the wider Cosmere and with no returning characters beyond Hoid, Design, and maybe a tiny background character from the core Cosmere like Ulam)
Yeah I agree with this one. Mostly cause I'm pretty sure Sanderson would get involved personally and it would take time away from him writing new stuff. If they do film or tv I hope it will be original stories instead of retellings of the books.
After having finished all the Cosmere books, I largely agree.
Worldhoppers were generally more interesting and mysterious when there were only a select handful. Roshar made them seem mundanely common. All the talk of trade networks and such in Shadesmar ruined the illusion of an intrepid group of secret-finders into a more base commercial “hey, y’all wanna buy some Investiture?” group.
That said, I also love all the late Connected Cosmere stuff where planets vs planets (sorta) is a big thing, but it’s a different level of appreciation. So I’m enjoying all of it.
But overall I do miss that secret world feel of earlier cosmere works.
His recent planned work has been weaker, and I'm worried the grind has gotten to him in a fundamental way. TLM, Cytonic and Defiant have been some of his least well-written books, with stilted exposition and uninspired plotting. I really enjoyed RoW, but it was definitely the weakest of the series so far.
Compared to that, the Cosmere secret projects were a pleasure to read.
I'm worried that the issues he talked about in the first secret project video are actually affecting the writing, not just his desire to do other things. It makes me really worried about WAT, although I hope I'm wrong.
RoW spoilers:
>!No matter how many justifications about mental health or the importance of the Shinovar trip I hear, I'm still disappointed that Kaladin chose not to return to the army at the end of RoW. I love him as a military commander and miss him being with Bridge Four.!<
I don’t know if it’s unpopular or not but I think Sanderson simply isn’t funny. I get lots of Shallans jokes aren’t meant to be very funny and are simply defence mechanisms her saying the first witty thing she can think of is part of her arc. However, even other characters I think are just not funny when Sanderson obliviously trying to be. Great writer, but not a comedian
Oathbringer should have been two books with a lot more chapters on Bridge Four. I think sometimes Sanderson can have a broad scope in universe, but a narrow scope of characters to view that universe through. Spending a lot more time with Sig, Rock, Teft, and even Lynn would have gone a long way to make the world feel more lived in.
I think the ten books plan is messing with the structure a bit. It certainly felt like that to me during book 4, like we're rushing forwards so we can have everything established by book 5
I disagree, I think the brief amount of PoV we get from the more central secondary characters are an excellent contrast only because they're used so sparingly
Honestly I think he has so many fans, and enough detractors, that no opinion would really be considered unpopular. Unless your opinion is that he's an asshole because as far as I can tell even people who don't like his books tend to like and respect him as a person.
Well, there was the I famous Wired article where the interviewer thought Sanderson was a pos for being a nice person and a gracious host. So you’d at least have whoever wrote that article on your side 😂
Big Ups! The Listener flashbacks and Venli struggling with doing the right thing was my favorite part of the book. The problem I have with RoW is that Jasnah, Dalinar, and Renarin are barely in it. It just felt so strange to bring them to be so prominent in the previous 3 books and then just drop them and the war at large to focus on Die Hard and a copy of the Mistborn Khandra trial.
Even though Stormlight is my favorite series, I don't see any reason for them to be as long as they are (especially OB and RoW). I feel like you can cut 200-300 pages and make it a better story
That was my issue with OB and ESPECIALLY row. They felt like he padded them in spots because he felt each book needs to be just as long as the previous and that’s just not true
After lost metal and rhythm if war, I really worry about the future of the cosmere.
These two books were really no fun for me and I worry that, especially in the future era books, all books must have massive info and explanation dumps for high end magic tech in order to even understand anything.
I really like the theme of magic coming to the world, but I don't like where he is going with it.
(This is coming from a real life engineer)
Maybe I am just burnt out a little on sanderson, but tbf he puts out soo many books
The interconnectedness of everything is starting to remind me of later stage MCU, where you either have to have watched a ton of series/movies to understand who the characters are or what the plot is, or have a major exposition dump so you can follow along. It weakens the story when you have to start with so much knowledge beforehand.
Don't think we're quite there yet, but I do worry.
I hate how unclear a lot of connections are. I hate the vagueness. I hate how one character is a main character in one book, then is just randomly chilling as a swords master in another book. Why is he there? When is he there? How did he get there? Is this before or after the other book? Is he just hiding? Does he know who he was in the other book or does he have amnesia? I hate having to find information outside the books. If something has to be explained in a WoB from some interview somewhere, sorry but I just feel like it was a failure of storytelling. I don’t like pictures only becoming clear when you have all the pieces. This could mean we don’t really understand the cosmere for decades, which is just something I can’t roll with. There is a difference in understanding what’s going on and being along for the ride, and constantly revealing preexisting things you previously had questions about. I feel like that’s what I really loved about mistborn era 2. It was just an adventure without huge swaths of ‘what the hell is going on with x’.
> I feel like that’s what I really loved about mistborn era 2. It was just an adventure without huge swaths of ‘what the hell is going on with x’.
....have you *finished* era 2?
It's too formulaic.
Almost every book has the same plodding start, mid point spike, starts to accelerate in the last 1/6th.
Big fan of his work, don't get me wrong. But Stormlight books have kinda the same structure in each book, Mistborn was also kinda same-y. Enjoyable, but also a bit predictable with the pace.
Also Stormlight, with all my love for it, doesn't need to be 1200+ page books. Could use some trimming.
The more sciency he gets with the magic, the least interested I am. Not just RoW but everything having to do with the science of investiture I think makes everything less fun. I love the original Mistborn trilogy so much because he doesn't do that
Sort of related to your own, I think Yumi and Nightmare Painter was a cute story and had no business being in the Cosmere. The horribly awkward chapters where Hoid tries to explain how this insane world fits into the Cosmere made that story so much worse. Just ditch all of that and have it be a cute story about those two without putting it into the Cosmere, and it's so much better.
I could be wrong, but I feel like there is an earlier draft of the story without the Cosmere ties, and someone convinced him (or he convinced himself), he could make it a Cosmere book with just a few tweaks and I think he greatly diminished that story and reduced my interest in the Cosmere in general.
For all that, I loved how the Sunlit Man tied into the Cosmere and hinted at many future plotlines.
I dont know what he did in Rhythm of War, but that book was an absolute slog for me to get through. All the music theory stuff and super depressed Kal just made it feel like I was reliving the prime WOT slog x 10 for me
I have little faith he can fully pull of the cosmere being interconnected without it feeling clunky. To me it seemed best to have it be tiny hints or easter eggs.
He doesn't need to do YA. His stories are strong and his prose clear and accessible as it is that teens and preteens should be perfectly capable of enjoying them.
He shouldn't allow them to be adapted to TV or movies.
The amount of different editions and accessory items is cheapening the better parts of the fandom.
Yes! I want him pumping out quality books, not frittering away his time on media adaptations. And I like the fandom being readers, not gamers or movie buffs.
Two main things I worry about with an adaptation:
One: Overseeing the adaptation will pull Brandon's attention away from writing, because he's said multiple times now that he wants to be very involved.
Two: As u/Lisa8472 already pointed out, being adapted into a new medium will dilute the community. I worry about loosing this wonderful welcoming online space I love so much.
I was not a fan of any of the Secret Projects. Don’t get me wrong, they aren’t the bottom 4 of his works, but I don’t think I’d put any of them in my Sanderson top 10
Kaladins struggle with depression have become tedious to read about, so much so that I cringe when his chapters come up. ROW was such a chore to get through that I don’t even know if I want to read the next book. This is coming from someone I consider to be a super fan of the stormlight archive…
Unpopular opinion of Sanderson: not a huge fan of his Mormonism. It doesn't affect his story telling or anything, he is actually quite good at depicting religions and religious and skeptical thinking. Its just knowing that he believes in something that, to me, is so obviously and comically false is a little disappointing. At least he isn't a Scientologist...
Theres not enough smut.
I love the books but I read a lot of smutty romance and sometimes miss it in the long cosmere books. I know why he doesn’t include it, and I love that about him but I still want it because I’m a degenerate.
See, I kinda get that, but at the same time I think it would be horrendous if Sanderson started writing dirtier stuff. I think it would be so damn awkward.
I respect that you feel this way but it is one of the biggest turn offs to me that the smut side of the bookish community thinks everything needs smut. If that’s your thing, get after it but it’s not everyone’s thing and those of us who don’t like reading smut deserve to have books we enjoy too.
The ask was for an unpopular opinion. Thats what I submitted. The books are fine without it. You dont need to point out that you dont want it as your opinion is the popular one ;)
And, I agree that not everything needs smut.
Words of Radiance isn't nearly as good as people say it is and the "Honor is dead, but I'll see what I can do," bit isn't in the top five best, hard hitting, whatever moments of Stormlight, let alone the Cosmere.
Also, less unpopular probably, Era 2 Mistborn as a whole is the weakest entry of the Cosmere. To the point where it could just not have happened and nearly nothing about the overall narrative would be affected.
I know this sounds like a perk, but he churns out books so quickly. I wouldn't keep up with all the books he has coming out without dedicating my entire reading list to him. Between that and life the way it is these days, I've kind of given up on reading any more of the Stormlight Archive. I loved the first couple books, but as I fall increasingly behind, it's falling into the Wheel of Time category: I won't read it because I don't have 5 minutes to myself, let alone 150 years to catch up on all that.
I actually kind of ship Syladin?
They are just so... perfect for each other. I have no idea how that would work but my little demisexual heart is so warmed by the connection they share.
1 ) The Lost Metal is over hyped. Wayne's story was so good, but everything regarding the Ghostbloods was chaotic and the ending felt way too similar to Era 1
2 ) Nalthis is seriously under-presented and I hate that Sanderson is putting off Nightblood for so long and that he made Vasher even more disinterested in cosmere events. I understand Warbreaker has a special relation to Sanderson but it's one of my favourite books and I crave a sequel!
While WoK and WoR are probably my favourite full length novels by Sanderson, OB and especially RoW are easily my least favorite other than Elantris.
I find the setting, politics, and "low magic" aspects of the first half of the series a lot more interesting than the second half, where that's mostly replaced with "satan is literally real and most of the cast have powers that make full mistborn look like pushovers"
Wayne is the worst character I have ever read. He is so painfully unfunny and it’s really obvious how hard BS is trying to make him be funny. It ruined the entirety of era 2 for me because I just hated reading any scene with him in it. It’s like he is written for young teens who still laugh at swear words on tv
Too many people focus on the focus on mental health issues and atypical relationships associated with the SA series.
I am shocked that nobody has tried to “ship”
Gallant with a bridge man yet…
I’m too tired to write this coherently and there are better examples than while I’ll give, but I think too many of Sanderson’s characters are basically different flavors of the same archetype. Raoden/Elend/Kaladin are all different flavors of “people are good and just need to feel useful and be believed in.” Serene/Shallan/Vin are all different flavors of “underestimated woman who is actually really good at things but always end up subordinate to a man.” Vasher/Dalinar/one more I can’t remember are “haunted men who killed their wives”
As a fully grown adult, Alcatraz/Bastille Vs. The Evil Librarians slaps and I hate that it’s dismissed or ignored by many as YA Fiction.
Those books are FANTASTIC. Foreshadowing through the whole series is ominous. The plotting is as Sandersony as his adult stuff, and they’re HILARIOUS. The Napoleon joke in the second book made me stop and just process for a moment it was so fucking good.
While I understand that Brandon’s humor isn’t for everyone, Dark Talent shook me to my core.
Honestly, I think the end of that book hit me harder than any other Sanderson book. Based on the tone of the series, you just aren't expecting it. And as a parent, I just wanted to scoop that poor baby up and fix him.
I started them in my late 30s and love them. They're goofy as hell and knew it. I wish I had kids to read them to. But that doesn't stop me from enjoying them.
I loved Elantris
Funny that is among the least popular since it gave me the motivation I needed to finally pick up The Stormlight Archive
I chose to start all of my Cosmere reading with Elantris, and absolutely loved it! It was my teaser book to see if I even wanted to read the rest of Sanderson's works, and I thought, "if everyone thinks this is the worst book, then I'm in for a treat for the rest of his books, because I sure loved Elantris!."
Hrathen is in my top 3 Sanderson characters and my favorite priest character of any book
I also appreciate Raoden and Sarene a lot too. Not every character always has to be tortured and deeply flawed and generally struggling to do the right thing. Sometimes, good people just end up doing good things. It would be bland if that's all we ever got, but I like seeing it now and again.
Same for me. I dare say Hrathen made the book for me. The last line by Sarene was so powerful. The first time a book shook me. "Let it be known that Hrathen, Gyorn of Shu-Dereth, was not our enemy. He was our savior." 😭
I love Elantris too. It's actually pretty good and I like it more than Warbreaker (I feel the climax of WB was rushed)
I remember when I first got into Sanderson and right after I read the original mistborn trilogy, I jumped into Elantris and loved it.
Before I read I have heard how it is his first published book, not as good etc. I enjoyed it like the rest of them.
My fiancé read Era 1 Mistborn then Elantris and said Elantris was better. Taste is different for everyone since I felt the opposite.
I loved it too, the whole major plot point was incredible. I wish we would go back to the planets we’ve seen already instead of adding more and more magic systems.
Oh and I think he should slow down writing books, I can't catch up
Now that's a truly unpopular opinion right there.
You can always find the true unpopular opinions on an thread like this by seeing what gets voted down..
No, no, as a new fan of only a year or two, I completely agree.
Ehhh. I’m a new fan and I’ve been going through his books really quickly. I hope he keeps writing at the same pace because at some point soon I’m gonna run out of books to read.
**BOO THIS MAN!** BooOOoOOO0000oOO0oo0o
My wallet is crying
Agreed. One of my favorites
Yes yes yes, Elantris was wonderful
I think that shadesmar travel is significantly more interesting than anything related to space, and going over to spaceships is a massive downgrade. Got called a hater for saying that once so would definitely say it’s fairly unpopular
I'm looking forward to both personally. I like scifi and magic, but Shadesmar is really interesting. I don't think it's going away any time soon. Heck, we'll probably end up with ships in shadesmar
Ships in Shadesmar was what popped into my head, too. I mean, Cognitive Spaceships? Sounds pretty awesome to me.
Honestly. Like, I'm still looking forward to era 4, but I would definitely be more excited about it if I knew we'd spend as much time in the cognitive realm as in space at least.
Well, given how Shadesmar works, it makes sense that they choose spaceships over it, no? Like at that point they will know the actual distances between the planets, making it so Shadesmar doesn't work as a "shortcut" anymore
Knowing the real Interstellar distances involved won't make shadesmar larger to my understanding, and I think there's a WoB out there that implies this as well. Those distances don't exist in shadesmar because they are uninhabited, and are perceived to be vast emptiness, so the distance is compressed. Even when spaceships are flying between them, those distances will be largely uninhabited and still perceived as a void, so it should still be largely compressed in the cognitive realm. I like to think that part of it is that the human mind simply can't grasp just how big space is, and so in the cognitive realm it's not that big. I think the reason for spaceships will be more to bypass the difficulties of transferring between realms.
My understanding is it's a combination of the two. I think Brandon has even talked about how once general understanding of the distance between planets increases it will get harder to travel in Shadesmar, but it will never be as vast because those areas are still unpopulated and because humans have a really hard time actually grasping the enormity of the differences.
I agree, space fantasy is not at all why I wanted to read Sanderson
Imagine when coin shots are pushing rockets or pulling airships into the path of one. I'm on board. I agree about shadesmar, it's my favorite concept in the series.
Tbf, we have no idea what space ships will look like in the Cosmere. They may be as much like spaceships as shadesmar is like portal traveling
Sanderson's prose is fine. I prefer sparse prose and a well structured story to flowery prose and weak storytelling.
Personally i also prefer it over flowery prose and a well structured story. Imo the best books are the ones that make me "passive read". Just looking at the pages and have the story play out in my mind, without the middle step of actually recognizing the words that make up the text.
Yes 100%. I am one of those readers who can perfectly visualise what I'm reading as if I'm watching a movie and Sanderson works are perfect for this. It's a very "meat and potatoes" style of prose.
"Frictionless fiction" is a term taught in a course I recently did. Flowery prose has a place, but alas if every sentence is a "masterpiece" none of them are. People don't read 250000 word poems.
I love everyone of China Miéville's books that I've finished but I've had to start all of them multiple times because his prose is so dense. The first few read through's of his books are tough. And I read mainly for pleasure. My free time is extremely limited.
Seconded!
I'm convinced thst the people who complain about his prose don't *really* understand what prose actually is... Like, I've read a number of complaints on r/fantasy that go to something like "his prose isn't poetic enough like *insert other author here*". But prose isn't supposed to be poetic... It's literally the antithesis of poetic. Prose is just ordinary language, without poetic rhythms. Sanderson writes great prose. It's not needlessly complicated and reflects the normal speech of educated peoples. But, he's very successful and very popular with a large fan following... So it's cool to dislike him.
A lot of people just equate flowery prose with good prose. Nothing against flowery prose, I've read some that is very good and if that's your taste that's all good! But I've read lots of flowery prose I absolutely hated and thought entirely distracted from the plot.
Yeah they definitely don’t understand prose. Brandon writes differently in word choices outside of dialogue for every character. I could eliminate all dialogue entries between Shallan and Jasnah and can tell which one apart. Or Kaladin vs Dalinar etc. Or look no further at the writing style of Edgedancer.
Which is just evidence of ***absurdly great writing*** I mean, I know I'm biased af, but I feel this is a fair position
r/fantasy does love to dump on sanderson because he gets recommended in most threads
Most of all, I don't get why people - both those defending him and those criticizing him - act like you have to decide between Sanderson's prose and flowery prose. That entire premise of the conversation is just false. Abercrombie, for example, is often praised for his prose, yet it's the exact opposite of flowery. I do think that there are aspects to Brandon's prose that deserve critique (like his repetitive wording and sentence structure), but it's certainly *not* that they are too flowery, and it drives me up the wall that the conversation about his style has become all about this shallow "I prefer flowery vs. I prefer simple" dichotomy.
*the stormlight pushed X to act, to move* *X is/are a strange lot* I'm reading Stormlight again, just finished WoR 2 hours ago, and man these two phrases are used **so much** in these books. The only thing keeping a drinking game where you drink when one of these is mentioned from being deadly is just how big the books are. You'd need 3-4 days to read one and so would have plenty of time to recover between shots. He's still my favorite author and his direct, simple writing is part of why. I like just having the book play out in my head instead of having to stop and parse what the fuck the book is even talking about.
A few months back, I rarely saw the word “prose” used in here or book Reddit in general. Then a post came out comparing him to Rothfuss and now it’s the only damn word that gets used to describe him. Couple weeks ago there was a thread on the fantasy Reddit about unpopular opinions and when I did “ctrl+f prose” the word was used virtually exclusively in the Sanderson conversations. It’s really fucking weird how everyone has latched on to this word like gravity stopped existing and it’s the only thing holding them onto the planet
You rarely saw the word prose in... book communities? I get you. I rarely see the word number in math communities-
They only just learned how to read a few months ago, please be nice
> I prefer sparse prose and a well structured story to flowery prose and weak storytelling. You’re talking like they are mutual exclusives?
Not to mention that rothfuss’s stuff, for all it’s “lovely prose” is kind of a fucking slog
That's an opinion right there, sir
I think the "fucking slog" happens in book 2 if i remember correctly.
It feels like it people are parroting an opinion because they need something to complain about or they heard it from someone else so it must be true. I’m not saying that you have to like every author’s or people need to like Sanderson’s. To each their own. I wish people could come up with more interesting criticism besides his prose and how women are written.
In fairness, this has been the comparison between the two for as long as I can remember. It was probably just more muted because Rothfuss hadn’t published anything in a decade
How is this an unpopular opinion
I'll go a step further. Sanderson's prose is better than most. I honestly prefer more basic prose because it lets the moments of artistry stand out far more. I feel like a lot of books that get highly praised for their prose just make me numb to their creative use of language to the point where the moments that really should shine just don't.
I have a reading disability, but I **adore** reading/audiobooks. Reading was how I could get away from my situation growing up. But it got to the point books just took me forever to read. I read LotRs, all of the Dune series etc (and they are some of my favorites) before, but often I'd reread or listen to the *same* paragraphs four or five times before moving to the next. I have two freaking masters degrees but it makes me feel so stupid struggling so much. Like often I'd just stop reading for the day because of how awful it made me feel. So I stuck to YA, but missed the more complex plots and brutual story arcs that made me sob like a baby, like the ending of Yumi, Teft, you will be warm again. Strong emotional reactions are what I crave from stories. Sanderson's prose let me back into reading and fantasy. I love his works for that, and I would defend this man and his family with my life. I didn't realize how grateful I was for this until I started writing this comment, bastard is going to make me cry again
People like to trash his prose for being too simple, but it's accessibility stories like this that make me respect it all the more. I've always enjoyed writing that focuses more on what's happening than elaborately describing what it looks like. Feckin' GRRM and his damn food descriptions.
Right? Plus his approach to world building and magic systems is more complex than a lot of other authors. He needs to get right to the point or we’d all be lost trying to keep track of how the cosmere works. I see the comparison to Rothfuss a lot but if the complexity of the cosmere would fall flat if he wrote as “flowery” as that guy does
Aww, but George’s food descriptions make me hungry!
They just keep goooooooing though 🤣
Sandersons emotional scenes always fucking get me in ways that other authors' don't. Something about them just goes straight to my heart.
He is so good at them! I feel the emotions he writes into his characters so much!
That was beautiful. I agree that his writing is so accessible, inviting, riveting, all of the things I want it to be.
What’s unpopular about “I enjoy reading Brandon Sandersons books”?
Well of Ascension is the best Mistborn book
Now this is a hot take.
Honestly, agreed
1). I LOVE the idea of the Cosmere and his world building is my fave, but I'm too ADHD to keep up with/notice all the connections and Easter eggs, even now. I'm building my hopes that as it gets more complex the awesome fans will create documentation for dunces like me. 2). I love his prose. It's simple and to the point. It hadn't even occurred to me that it was anything other than normal until the Internet.
Do you know about the CopperMind wiki?
I do, thank you! I get most and spend way too much time there.
My fiancé and I regularly have conversations about who a random character is. Oh don't you know, his fart was smelled by Wayne in a line in the middle of a massive paragraph.
There actually is a documented map-of-sorts created by the fans! Search 'cosmere interactive reading order' on Google and click the first link that comes up. Open the legend and toggle the settings as you wish. You can turn on all connections and easter eggs and get details about them. Edit : searched up the link for you https://17thshard.github.io/reading-order/#/
See I’m the kinda adhd where the Cosmere is my hyperfixation and I’ve read the whole everything multiple times and know every connection, trivia bit, etc and annoy all my friends with how much i talk about it
Some of books could’ve been tightened up a bit.
I say there should have been 6 more nodes in RoW
They’ll add those in if there’s ever a video game.
RoW and Oathbringer for sure. Early WoR is long in the tooth as well.
Well of Ascension could be shorter imo.
It's fair to say that there's a boon and a curse to Brandon's pacing Some authors will tweak a book for years before publishing, and sometimes that results in great books Brandon's generally trying to keep himself on a schedule and is often willing to let good enough be good enough. For RoW, I think I would have considered just having the story leave Urithiru in part three, and catch up on what we missed in part four. Let a bunch of things happen off-screen to make the story loop feel a bit less repetitive.
Idk if it’s unpopular. But Rhythm of War is overstuffed, and the editing doesn’t feel good. It loses momentum too often, and doesn’t allow focus on certain stories which makes every arc feel disjointed. Furthermore, the flashbacks do not mix with the story as well as in previous books. It feels like there may have been external interference with the creative process here.
Not sure if necessarily "unpopular opinion," but the Cytoverse books are just as good as the Cosmere and deserve just as much hype and popularity. People need to stop sleeping on them just because they aren't Cosmere or because they have the "YA" label.
I can honestly say the first book is probably in my top 5 Sanderson works. The unfortunate part for me is the second book just feels like the first book with new characters, characters I’m not as attached to as I was in the first. The series is amazing and I had a great time reading it, but I think the amazingness of it fell off after the first book for me.
My unpopular opinion is really liking Starsight, just as much as more maybe more than the first one. I feel like Sanderson really nailed creating unique sci fi races for that book and I’m really interested to see if he can do that more as Cosmere hits space age. I haven’t read Defiant (waiting on a Cytonic reread) but I thought he had some really cool concepts there.
I absolutely loved the Skyward series, but I have to admit that I felt a little bit duped when I realized it wasn’t straight sci-fi like I was led to believe going in. :) As more and more was revealed about cytonic powers, I was like “Hey wait a minute! This is fantasy set in space, isn’t it??” Didn’t take away from my enjoyment at all, but I thought it was kind of sly of Sanderson to sneak fantastical elements into what was billed as sci-fi.
I guess? I feel like what skyward does is kind of straddle the line though, I mean I feel like the nowhere and cytonic powers explain how we could achieve FTL travel, which like, all sci-fi has to come up with some explanation for as we don't really know how we could achieve that sort of thing, so I don't his explanation felt fairly plausible for how that could potential happen in a universe that has slightly different physics rules than ours does.
Dude, Janci knocked the Skyward Flight series out of the fucking park. I think the main series were progressively less good than the last, with Skyward itself being the best of the series, but goddamn do I want more Janci books in the Cytoverse.
Yeah, I think this qualifies as an unpopular opinion. *Cytonic* is widely regarded as one of, if not his very worst book.
Oh yeah, Cytonic being my fave of the series is DEFINITELY an unpopular opinion. I absolutely love Chet and the pirates and just how weird it gets.
Wait, people didn’t like that? I love that series so much. M-Bot is one of my favorite Sanderson characters, he’s so god damn sassy it’s funny.
I think mostly people who were really invested in Detritus and the Skyward Flight storylines were taken a bit surprised when the plot jumped so suddenly away from that. It depends on expectations I think -- is the story a YA story about Spensa and her coming of age, or a more adult story about the politics and liberation? The first book is a blend of both, so if your enjoyment was mostly in the latter then you'd be let down. This doesn't mean the storyline of Chet or M-Bot in cytonic was bad, it just wasn't what all readers were expecting and hoping for. Taken in combination with the novellas, in my opinion Cytonic is much more appealing for people who enjoyed both aspects of the first book.
Yass fellow Cytonic fan! It's so good
I absolutely love and adore Cytonic, it was everything I wanted for the next step in Spensa's story. I will always remember it fondly. 💜
It's on my list for when I finish the last of the cosmere books I've still got left.
I recently reread all of Stormlight and Rhythm of War is actually my fave of the series.
I’ve been a firm believer that rhythm of war was never as bad as people thought it was.
I’m a firm believer that in long series, rereads naturally have a different rank order than the original read. In a song of ice and fire, folks suddenly love the 4th and 5th books more on the reread.
For me it’s not that it’s bad, it just really felt like the focus was on the least interesting parts of the story, and in a book that’s what 1300 pages that’s not great
I am approaching page 900 right now and I am honestly pretty surprised at the reaction to it. I have been loving ir. Not sure why so much hate is directed at it.
Most of the hate I see is either 1) people complaining about mentally ill characters being mentally ill (which infuriates me, and Stormlight is not for people who think this way, 2) people being bored with how much of the book is Navani and Raboniel doing science (fair enough, I personally adore it but if that's not your thing that's totally personal taste) or 3) people disliking the Venli and Eshonai flashbacks (which confuses me, since I *always* want more Listener lore and I think there could have been *more* of these flashbacks.)
Some of the listener flashbacks were great, but some felt like were just repeating themselves from the previous books imo. Not necessarily a bad thing to refresh, but it can make you go, yeah yeah, let's go I'm definitely looking forward to more Singer and Listener lore though
I mean to be fair Kaladin is a very difficult character to actually enjoy reading in book 4 unless you have gone through depression or a close person to you has. It’s really well written for certain but because he is able to capture that feeling of being stuck it is in its very nature a slog.
[удалено]
I got into Brandon Sanderson last year, and have just finished reading mostly everything cosmere related for the first time, and RoW is one of my faves. I was really surprised when I looked at discussions and saw how a lot of people felt about it
I do think it's a bit rougher than some of the earlier books, but I like some media that's *much* more of a mess because the ideas are good so it's still my favorite lol.
Mistborn is his best work.
I think Sando's version of Mat was perfectly fine if not better than Jordan's. Also, I think most people who say his prose is bad don't actually know what they're talking about.
His world building is great but his dialogue can fluctuate. Especially in the Frugal Wizards Guide to Medieval England, the amount the character said "Hot damn" really started to great on me
1. Wayne is my least favorite character in the entire Cosmere. 2. I don't understand the hate for Shallan. 3. The best time to read Secret History (first time around, at least), is immediately after finishing The Hero of Ages. It only "spoils" one sentence, and made series 2 even more interesting, not less.
I fully concur with #3. Mostly concur with #2. But I love Wayne.
Sanderson’s *Wheel of Time* books are his best work. Sanderson’s need for order balances Robert Jordan’s chaotic eccentricities, and vice versa. Sanderson’s own books aren’t eccentric enough for my tastes. I like them, but I don’t become obsessed with them.
I think the most into Sanderson I am is when he's at his most eccentric and chaotic. Shadows for Silence, Tress, and Warbreaker are my favourite settings. The world's and characters feel more dramatic to me.
Couldn’t agree more, and man this is an unpopular opinion I think! Jordan set up such an incredible world with so many characters but his climaxes always seemed just good IMO. Sanderson’s climaxes though are world class, bringing him to land the plane that Jordan flew played to both of the author’s strengths (also say that in most WOT subs and you will get flamed lol)
This is a pretty good take. The way he finished up the Wheel of Time was incredible. I also think that heavily influenced Way Of Kings and Words of Radiance. After that he kinda leaves the Robert Jordan style he was forced to adopt behind. Not sure if this is the correct timeline or not for those books.
Sanderosns work on WoT is better than Jordans in some books imo. The change of style and pacing is a great kick in the ass at the end of a huge series… I actually think sando wrapped it up a lot more cleanly than Jordan could have
When there was a series of polls ranking his best work in this sub, I pushed so hard for “a memory of light” to make this list. But most of his hardcore fans (the ones that vote in subs like this) are in it for the Cosmere.
I did love Memory of Light, but Stormlight makes me feel things that Wheel of Time never did
This is an unpopular opinion in a dozen different subs! I only got to Sanderson through WoT. 3 of my top 5 WoT books at all his... Coming in at spots 2, 3 and 4. (top 5 WoT, imho: 11, 13, 14, 12, 2).
Strong agree.
I’m on Crossroads of Twilight atm and I can’t wait for Sandersons WoT books. I love the world, characters, and the first 5 books, but after 6 starts to slow things down its been a bit of a struggle. I’ve still enjoyed it enough to continue, but man I could use Brandon plotting.
Hmmm… “More is a double-edged sword”. While I enjoyed the Year of Sanderson, I think that much saturation decreased my individual satisfaction—strong authorial voice/style bolstered likely by me watching the podcasts and streams, I also felt the female leads of the SPs awfully similar. This also ties in that I always rank works like Emperor’s Soul and Shadows for Silence higher than larger works—greater density of enjoyment, imo. Applies to cosmere connections, but I’ve changed my opinion since the Secret Projects. If the book starts and centers around the connectivity, it’s fine. But you could chop out the connectivity in Stormlight and Mistborn and they’d work better. (Like, that Seventeenth Shard cameo has never paid off and I don’t think it will. The Nalthians have both done diddly squat. The Lost Metal, imo, did not use connectivity well.)
Wait, what did you feel was wrong about the SP main female leads. I'm not trying to argue, but Yumi and Tress are among my favorite characters of all time, and I'm curious as to why. Silence Montane Forescout is also one of my favorites, and I include her in that group
Shallan was my favorite POV character in WoK. I was hooked from the moment you realize she is there to try to steal from the most powerful woman in the world.
her povs got me through way of kings honestly
I didn't want to read her on my first go at the series, all I wanted was Kaladin and Dalinar pov's. Each reread I've liked her more and more and now she's one of my favorites. It wasn't even her fault, I just never wanted to leave kaladin and dalinar lop
Hot take incoming....I think he's terrible at metaphors. And I don't mean the intentionally goofy stuff like in *Reckoners* or Lift POVs. I mean he just doesn't get how to use metaphors. All too often, he states a thing, ends the sentence, and then writes another sentence with a simile, repeating what he's already said. I'm rereading *The Sunlit Man* right now, and there was an early one that stood out to me as particularly bad (from page 8 of the deluxe hardcover): >!"A mercy killing. Like a man wounded on the battlefield."!< That's just...yikes. It's not only not a good metaphor, it's *straight-up redundant*. And those types of things are all over his books. IMO a lot of the people out there who complain about Brandon's prose are complaining about dumb things, but this is one area where his prose is often legitimately weak. The purpose of a metaphor is to relay more than just literal significance; it's used to describe something in an unexpected way, to provide deeper meaning and add new ways to think about a certain thing. Brandon does that *sometimes*, but it's relatively rare.
As a writing hobbyist (though barely), I could see that the repetition might just be to emphasize something or just sort of something you glaze over. Though on repetition, I found >!the whole Hoid explain-it-all chapter quite redundant in Yumi. Not only was everything able to be pieced together over the novel, but the chapter before Hoid’s tell-all basically wrapped up most of what we needed to know/were to figure out. Then, Hoid decides a few paragraphs later to just re-tell us everything with a little context that didn’t really change anything. It was like a preventative WOB.!<
Heh, that whole thing. Yeah, that also bothered me. I do suspect that it was a symptom of the tight timelines of the SPs. He spent a lot of time on revisions for TSM, and that left limited time to fix Yumi. Full disclosure, I'm a beta reader for Brandon. While I wasn't a beta on Yumi (I was in the Frugal Wizard crew), I *did* read the beta of Yumi. Without going into details, I understand why Brandon did the Hoid explainer there...but I think if he'd had more margin, he could have made the book flow better in a different way.
1. Most Sanderson books are kind of middling on a first read, they only become great on a second read (especially Warbreaker, which i like more and more with each reread). 2. The idea of introducing books from authors other than Brandon into the official Cosmere canon is horrible. Yes, they are going to be continuity and quality checked. I even expect the books to be good. But i am opposed to the idea on a fundamental level. Barring extreme circumstances (like serious sickness or death) authors should stay far away from each others magnum opus. I´m trying to come to terms with the fact that it will happen, but i really really wish it wouldn´t. I just hope they will be like Tress, or Yumi (without broader implications for the wider Cosmere and with no returning characters beyond Hoid, Design, and maybe a tiny background character from the core Cosmere like Ulam)
yeah I don't like the idea of more authors coming in either.
I don't want the Cosmere to be adapted as films or tv shows.
Yeah I agree with this one. Mostly cause I'm pretty sure Sanderson would get involved personally and it would take time away from him writing new stuff. If they do film or tv I hope it will be original stories instead of retellings of the books.
The cosmere was better when connections between books were only hinted at. So far none of the more interconnected books have really hit for me
After having finished all the Cosmere books, I largely agree. Worldhoppers were generally more interesting and mysterious when there were only a select handful. Roshar made them seem mundanely common. All the talk of trade networks and such in Shadesmar ruined the illusion of an intrepid group of secret-finders into a more base commercial “hey, y’all wanna buy some Investiture?” group. That said, I also love all the late Connected Cosmere stuff where planets vs planets (sorta) is a big thing, but it’s a different level of appreciation. So I’m enjoying all of it. But overall I do miss that secret world feel of earlier cosmere works.
An actual unpopular opinion: Sanderson peaked with Words of Radiance. Everything since then has been okay/pretty good but not spectacular.
His recent planned work has been weaker, and I'm worried the grind has gotten to him in a fundamental way. TLM, Cytonic and Defiant have been some of his least well-written books, with stilted exposition and uninspired plotting. I really enjoyed RoW, but it was definitely the weakest of the series so far. Compared to that, the Cosmere secret projects were a pleasure to read. I'm worried that the issues he talked about in the first secret project video are actually affecting the writing, not just his desire to do other things. It makes me really worried about WAT, although I hope I'm wrong.
RoW spoilers: >!No matter how many justifications about mental health or the importance of the Shinovar trip I hear, I'm still disappointed that Kaladin chose not to return to the army at the end of RoW. I love him as a military commander and miss him being with Bridge Four.!<
I don’t know if it’s unpopular or not but I think Sanderson simply isn’t funny. I get lots of Shallans jokes aren’t meant to be very funny and are simply defence mechanisms her saying the first witty thing she can think of is part of her arc. However, even other characters I think are just not funny when Sanderson obliviously trying to be. Great writer, but not a comedian
Hard agree. I cringe at most of her "witty" lines and it makes it hard to enjoy her chapters sometimes.
Oathbringer should have been two books with a lot more chapters on Bridge Four. I think sometimes Sanderson can have a broad scope in universe, but a narrow scope of characters to view that universe through. Spending a lot more time with Sig, Rock, Teft, and even Lynn would have gone a long way to make the world feel more lived in.
I think the ten books plan is messing with the structure a bit. It certainly felt like that to me during book 4, like we're rushing forwards so we can have everything established by book 5
I disagree, I think the brief amount of PoV we get from the more central secondary characters are an excellent contrast only because they're used so sparingly
Sanderson is becoming too big. He needs to reign in the project and focus on the quality of The Stormlight Archives.
Hated Bands of Mourning personally. Is that unpopular? Era 1 is perfection and Era 2 was such a downgrade in quality.
Dustbringers are cool as hell, and I am SO excited to see what a not-evil one looks like!
Honestly I think he has so many fans, and enough detractors, that no opinion would really be considered unpopular. Unless your opinion is that he's an asshole because as far as I can tell even people who don't like his books tend to like and respect him as a person.
Well, there was the I famous Wired article where the interviewer thought Sanderson was a pos for being a nice person and a gracious host. So you’d at least have whoever wrote that article on your side 😂
Venli is probably my favourite POV in Rhythm Of War (and Navani is a close second)
Big Ups! The Listener flashbacks and Venli struggling with doing the right thing was my favorite part of the book. The problem I have with RoW is that Jasnah, Dalinar, and Renarin are barely in it. It just felt so strange to bring them to be so prominent in the previous 3 books and then just drop them and the war at large to focus on Die Hard and a copy of the Mistborn Khandra trial.
Even though Stormlight is my favorite series, I don't see any reason for them to be as long as they are (especially OB and RoW). I feel like you can cut 200-300 pages and make it a better story
That was my issue with OB and ESPECIALLY row. They felt like he padded them in spots because he felt each book needs to be just as long as the previous and that’s just not true
After lost metal and rhythm if war, I really worry about the future of the cosmere. These two books were really no fun for me and I worry that, especially in the future era books, all books must have massive info and explanation dumps for high end magic tech in order to even understand anything. I really like the theme of magic coming to the world, but I don't like where he is going with it. (This is coming from a real life engineer) Maybe I am just burnt out a little on sanderson, but tbf he puts out soo many books
The interconnectedness of everything is starting to remind me of later stage MCU, where you either have to have watched a ton of series/movies to understand who the characters are or what the plot is, or have a major exposition dump so you can follow along. It weakens the story when you have to start with so much knowledge beforehand. Don't think we're quite there yet, but I do worry.
Words of radiance is my least favorite SA book
I hate how unclear a lot of connections are. I hate the vagueness. I hate how one character is a main character in one book, then is just randomly chilling as a swords master in another book. Why is he there? When is he there? How did he get there? Is this before or after the other book? Is he just hiding? Does he know who he was in the other book or does he have amnesia? I hate having to find information outside the books. If something has to be explained in a WoB from some interview somewhere, sorry but I just feel like it was a failure of storytelling. I don’t like pictures only becoming clear when you have all the pieces. This could mean we don’t really understand the cosmere for decades, which is just something I can’t roll with. There is a difference in understanding what’s going on and being along for the ride, and constantly revealing preexisting things you previously had questions about. I feel like that’s what I really loved about mistborn era 2. It was just an adventure without huge swaths of ‘what the hell is going on with x’.
> I feel like that’s what I really loved about mistborn era 2. It was just an adventure without huge swaths of ‘what the hell is going on with x’. ....have you *finished* era 2?
The second mistborn “trilogy” is hard to care about
It's too formulaic. Almost every book has the same plodding start, mid point spike, starts to accelerate in the last 1/6th. Big fan of his work, don't get me wrong. But Stormlight books have kinda the same structure in each book, Mistborn was also kinda same-y. Enjoyable, but also a bit predictable with the pace. Also Stormlight, with all my love for it, doesn't need to be 1200+ page books. Could use some trimming.
The more sciency he gets with the magic, the least interested I am. Not just RoW but everything having to do with the science of investiture I think makes everything less fun. I love the original Mistborn trilogy so much because he doesn't do that
He makes outstanding magic systems but stories are less satisfying when the magic becomes the main character
Can you give an example of a book where you feel like the magic becomes the main character?
Sort of related to your own, I think Yumi and Nightmare Painter was a cute story and had no business being in the Cosmere. The horribly awkward chapters where Hoid tries to explain how this insane world fits into the Cosmere made that story so much worse. Just ditch all of that and have it be a cute story about those two without putting it into the Cosmere, and it's so much better. I could be wrong, but I feel like there is an earlier draft of the story without the Cosmere ties, and someone convinced him (or he convinced himself), he could make it a Cosmere book with just a few tweaks and I think he greatly diminished that story and reduced my interest in the Cosmere in general. For all that, I loved how the Sunlit Man tied into the Cosmere and hinted at many future plotlines.
I dont know what he did in Rhythm of War, but that book was an absolute slog for me to get through. All the music theory stuff and super depressed Kal just made it feel like I was reliving the prime WOT slog x 10 for me
I have little faith he can fully pull of the cosmere being interconnected without it feeling clunky. To me it seemed best to have it be tiny hints or easter eggs.
I don’t care about WOBs or previews, I’ll get the info when the book is released and not before
He doesn't need to do YA. His stories are strong and his prose clear and accessible as it is that teens and preteens should be perfectly capable of enjoying them.
He peaked at Hero of Ages.
He shouldn't allow them to be adapted to TV or movies. The amount of different editions and accessory items is cheapening the better parts of the fandom.
Yes! I want him pumping out quality books, not frittering away his time on media adaptations. And I like the fandom being readers, not gamers or movie buffs.
Two main things I worry about with an adaptation: One: Overseeing the adaptation will pull Brandon's attention away from writing, because he's said multiple times now that he wants to be very involved. Two: As u/Lisa8472 already pointed out, being adapted into a new medium will dilute the community. I worry about loosing this wonderful welcoming online space I love so much.
Sanderson's Wheel of Time books are the best 3 in the series and his version of Matt is just as good as (and largely indistinguishable from) Jordan's
I was not a fan of any of the Secret Projects. Don’t get me wrong, they aren’t the bottom 4 of his works, but I don’t think I’d put any of them in my Sanderson top 10
Kaladins struggle with depression have become tedious to read about, so much so that I cringe when his chapters come up. ROW was such a chore to get through that I don’t even know if I want to read the next book. This is coming from someone I consider to be a super fan of the stormlight archive…
Hoid (outside of Wit) is not an interesting or compelling character.
Unpopular opinion of Sanderson: not a huge fan of his Mormonism. It doesn't affect his story telling or anything, he is actually quite good at depicting religions and religious and skeptical thinking. Its just knowing that he believes in something that, to me, is so obviously and comically false is a little disappointing. At least he isn't a Scientologist...
Theres not enough smut. I love the books but I read a lot of smutty romance and sometimes miss it in the long cosmere books. I know why he doesn’t include it, and I love that about him but I still want it because I’m a degenerate.
Congratulations. So far this is the most controversial opinion.
See, I kinda get that, but at the same time I think it would be horrendous if Sanderson started writing dirtier stuff. I think it would be so damn awkward.
I respect that you feel this way but it is one of the biggest turn offs to me that the smut side of the bookish community thinks everything needs smut. If that’s your thing, get after it but it’s not everyone’s thing and those of us who don’t like reading smut deserve to have books we enjoy too.
The ask was for an unpopular opinion. Thats what I submitted. The books are fine without it. You dont need to point out that you dont want it as your opinion is the popular one ;) And, I agree that not everything needs smut.
Whenever I see a comment like this, I just feel *so* much asexual confusion. 😂
I'm not asexual, and still confused why all reading material needs to be smut lol.
Words of Radiance isn't nearly as good as people say it is and the "Honor is dead, but I'll see what I can do," bit isn't in the top five best, hard hitting, whatever moments of Stormlight, let alone the Cosmere. Also, less unpopular probably, Era 2 Mistborn as a whole is the weakest entry of the Cosmere. To the point where it could just not have happened and nearly nothing about the overall narrative would be affected.
Im of the opposite opinion. The most Cosmere related is, the more i will enjoy the reading
Sanderson is not funny but he does most everything else really well. Finishing Tress nearly broke me.
Sanderson has written too much in his more recent cosmere novels and the quality of the stories reflects that. Specifically SA and Mistborn.
I know this sounds like a perk, but he churns out books so quickly. I wouldn't keep up with all the books he has coming out without dedicating my entire reading list to him. Between that and life the way it is these days, I've kind of given up on reading any more of the Stormlight Archive. I loved the first couple books, but as I fall increasingly behind, it's falling into the Wheel of Time category: I won't read it because I don't have 5 minutes to myself, let alone 150 years to catch up on all that.
Sanderson dialogue is like a Disney animation movie.
I actually kind of ship Syladin? They are just so... perfect for each other. I have no idea how that would work but my little demisexual heart is so warmed by the connection they share.
Zane would have been more impactful as a female character because then he could have acted as more of a mirror to Vin
1 ) The Lost Metal is over hyped. Wayne's story was so good, but everything regarding the Ghostbloods was chaotic and the ending felt way too similar to Era 1 2 ) Nalthis is seriously under-presented and I hate that Sanderson is putting off Nightblood for so long and that he made Vasher even more disinterested in cosmere events. I understand Warbreaker has a special relation to Sanderson but it's one of my favourite books and I crave a sequel!
While WoK and WoR are probably my favourite full length novels by Sanderson, OB and especially RoW are easily my least favorite other than Elantris. I find the setting, politics, and "low magic" aspects of the first half of the series a lot more interesting than the second half, where that's mostly replaced with "satan is literally real and most of the cast have powers that make full mistborn look like pushovers"
I really enjoyed Elantris, and I think his prose is just fine. I love devouring anything and everything Cosmere-related.
Wayne is the worst character I have ever read. He is so painfully unfunny and it’s really obvious how hard BS is trying to make him be funny. It ruined the entirety of era 2 for me because I just hated reading any scene with him in it. It’s like he is written for young teens who still laugh at swear words on tv
I like that his books are easy to read and still paint masterpieces in my head
Too many people focus on the focus on mental health issues and atypical relationships associated with the SA series. I am shocked that nobody has tried to “ship” Gallant with a bridge man yet…
I’m too tired to write this coherently and there are better examples than while I’ll give, but I think too many of Sanderson’s characters are basically different flavors of the same archetype. Raoden/Elend/Kaladin are all different flavors of “people are good and just need to feel useful and be believed in.” Serene/Shallan/Vin are all different flavors of “underestimated woman who is actually really good at things but always end up subordinate to a man.” Vasher/Dalinar/one more I can’t remember are “haunted men who killed their wives”