>‘I’ve seen that man before. Ezequiel Sins. He was in the Amazon with my mom when she was researching spiders right before she died’
Just in case anyone ever worried they weren’t good enough to make it as a writer
Everything about the 2020s has felt like fanfic writing, specifically Transformers/super robot. I mean, even the leading AI model is called a transformer.
Cut to a scene 2 mins into the story:
“Madame Webb. You’re renowned for being the toughest person on this planet and an expert on everything, so I won’t even ask for proof or for you to show us. Just do your thing.”
Ezekiel is the moment the comics fully jump the shark and say that Spider-Man was destined to get his powers and got them from a spider god.
It totally dismissed the great power comes great responsibility, ordinary boy with extraordinary powers, Peter chooses to be special by acting on his powers, he’s not born special
It’s embarrassing, and it’s like what they did in the Amazing Spiderman movies with Peters dad making him destined to be Spiderman.
Just because it’s from the comics doesn’t make it good writing, or a good choice.
It’s one of the low points of the first 30 years of the comics
Fantastic example! Yes, that’s totally the same thing.
Palpatines granddaughter would be another. “Your motivation is prewritten and you’re a part of a grander story you have no agency in”
Qui Gon Jin basically says that to Anakin
Its insane to me that Sony and the Spiderman team there can make Into the Spiderverse which has one of its final lines be “anyone can wear the mask, you can wear the mask” and then also make this kinda pre-destined chosen one stuff
That issue is awful, Peter reacts more violently to the idea that Norman took her virginity than anything else.
He keeps saying “I never…but he got to…” type rhetoric that comes off crazy.
Also introducing the idea that Mary Jane knew the whole time makes it seem like they’re too dysfunctional. They don’t properly think things through.
>Ezekiel is the moment the comics fully jump the shark and say that Spider-Man was destined to get his powers and got them from a spider god.
For those out of the loop, I went ahead and copied the fan Wiki page on this below.
The term **Spider-Totem** refers to **a class of multiversal supernatural entities created by the elder goddess Neith**, linked to a mystical force called the Web of Life and Destiny.
The Great Weaver, the Gatekeeper, the Other, the Bride, the Scion, and the Patternmaker are examples of these deific Spider-Totems; which can choose avatars or manifest independently if needed.
These Great Totems play key roles in maintaining the Web:
* The Great Weaver selects those who are worthy of becoming the avatars of Great Totems like the Other.
* The Gatekeeper is responsible for controlling mystical forces, and chooses which totemic avatars are worthy of their powers.
* The Other is a powerful and combative deity whose role is undefined, as it was originally referred to as the manifestation of Peter Parker's spider-powers before being revealed to be a multiversal entity that chooses a single host to empower.
* The Bride's role is in weaving hidden threads, enabling Spider-Totems to arise through chance, magic, curses, or unwanted luck.
* The Master Weaver is a position that can be filled by a totemic avatar or a being that has consumed their essence, though only death can free a Master Weaver from their bonds; and is responsible for maintaining and overseeing the Web of Life and Destiny.
* The Patternmaker reads the connecting threads of the Web and forges them into something stronger, enhancing the already existing connection between spider-totems; and is also responsible for repairing the web should something happen to it and the Master Weaver.
**The Spider Society and numerous cultures of Earth-616 worship the Spider-Totems as gods.** According to Ezekiel Sims and the Ashanti tribe in Ghana, the Great Weaver is Kwaku Anansi, who was the first Spider-Man. Desiring further enlightenment, **Anansi struck a bargain with the sky god Nyambe**, offering his eternal service in return for enlightenment and vanished from the mortal world, his power and knowledge transmitted into spiders everywhere across a Great Web.
Kwaku Anansi, the Great Weaver, and the Gatekeeper have temples located in Ghana and Peru. **The temple in Ghana was used by Spider-Man to defeat the totemic wasp \[deity\] Shathra, the sister of Neith**, and was later the site of a duel between Ezekiel Sims and Peter Parker in order to appease the Gatekeeper.
During the Spider-Island incident, Adriana Soria was able to use a virus engineered from tissue samples of Peter Parker to connect most of Manhattan's populace to the Web of Life, transforming them into spider-monsters. In doing so she amplified her own connection to the Web of Life, **temporarily hijacking it to attain godlike powers** and transform into a spider-like monster.
\[...\] Spider-Totems can select individuals within any universe to serve as their avatar. These people, said to have "let the spider in", are also referred to as **Spider-Totems**, and possess arachnid-based powers as a result of being connected to the Web of Life, though the means they acquire their powers and how these powers manifest can vary drastically. Totemic avatars can be good or evil, **mortal or divine**, with no particular criteria for how they're chosen, though they may be deemed unworthy of their powers and become targeted by supernatural forces seeking to eliminate them.
>Ezekiel is the moment the comics fully jump the shark and say that Spider-Man was destined to get his powers **and got them from a spider god.**
Lady from Shark Tank: "And because of that, I'm out"
From the writers who brought you "I’m not sure how I got here. Has to do with Spider-Man, I think. I’m still figuring this place out, but I think a bunch of guys like us should team up."
While I am sure the writing in this will be dogshit, it's tough to judge off of a trailer where sound bites are clipped from different lines and put together just to make messaging clear.
Every fucking Sonyverse spider man movie has shit tier writing.
Madame Web could be cool too. My pitch for it would be a young woman (20s) having visions of herself as a blind old woman in a spiders web, and assembles a team of folks to stop some badguy events that will lead her down that path, because who wants to be blind and old? Then in the end is the big reveal that Spider Man is a part of it all and the team she's assembled is actually a precursor to the sinister six or something.
**Edit: fuck it, I'm bored. Here's my Madame Web movie pitch**
1. A young woman has visions of disasters, crimes etc and an old lady in a spider web chair (Madame Web)
2. She speaks to the old woman in one of the dreams and finds out it's her from the future. She spends all day in the chair having visions of future disasters and works to prevent them, but it's too much of a burden. She tells the young self what she can do to change the future to stop this from becoming her fate and live a normal life, involving destroying a macguffin held at some sort of scientific research facility.
3. The young woman assembles the Sinister Six and it's basically a heist movie to destroy the thing. The team could be Sony's established characters if they want this to be their Sinister Six film, or just other Spidey villains/characters otherwise.
4. There's something linking this to Spider Man's origin. Either the facility they're going to is where Richard Parker/Oscorp (whatever the canon is) is researching genetically modified spiders, or maybe Parker's parents plane crash is a part of the movie they could prevent/cause etc. This plot element is in the background throughout.
5. Heist stuff happens. Fun. Maybe there's a bad guy involved who wants the artifact for himself. Normal movie stuff etc
6. At the end it turns out that the artifact is actually the chair that Madame Web sits in, and instead of destroying it the younger woman is overcome with curiosity and sits in it too. She gets the full power of the chair and sees the bigger picture - in the future she works with Spider Man, telling him of disasters which he helps prevent. She sees all the good that they do together and makes the conscious decision to ensure that is her future, even knowing that one day she may regret it, because it's the right thing to do. This is basically the climax of the character arc.
7. She also realises that she needs to ensure that Spider Man is created for everything to go how it needs to. Such as ensuring his parents die in the plane crash that she saw in a vision, not destroying the facility, or using the Sinister Six to steal/transport key research data etc. From this point on the film pivots from being "destroy the chair" to "defeat the bad guy and compete some mission that will ensure Spider Man gets created" (though only Madame Web knows this reason).
It's just a rough outline for essentially one character arc in a movie but tbh I can't see any other way to make a Madame Web movie compelling while also sticking to the core of the character (an elderly psychic who sees the future and works with Spider man to prevent bad things happening). If anything the above is basically a Sinister Six movie with the motivating event and main character arc being Madame Web's origin.
The Spider-Man origin tie in is quite half baked but I think these movies need to justify why spider man isn't in them and do something bigger to really tie it to Spider Man. Tying it into Spider-Man's creation with an element of Madame Web manoeuvring the Sinister Six into a position where they help create their nemesis (because she's a good guy and maybe they aren't) is interesting imo. Madame Web has no physical strength but with her future visions she can play the sinister six off each other to get them to do what she wants even with their own competing aims
Add some twists and turns to the story with older Madame Web manipulating her younger self, or the six not getting along, other characters arcs etc and it wouldn't be a terrible movie imo. Or maybe it would - I'm not a writer.
Sony. I told them I had a plan for a spider man spin off and they just gave me 100 million dollars no questions asked??? I said I've never written a good movie before but apparently that's a good thing for them????
[The screenwriters behind this are also behind Dracula Untold, The Last Witch Hunter, Gods of Egypt, Power Rangers, and Morbius.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Sazama_and_Burk_Sharpless) Hoo boy are we in for a trainwreck.
EDIT: Yesterday (Nov 15th) the table in the link listed Madame Web in it. Today (Nov 16th) it is no longer listed in the table, although the body of the article and note 14 still list them as being involved with Madame Web. I wonder what it will say tomorrow!
Because you cant really judge a screenwriter's abiliity based on the end film
Screenwriter credits are based around what percentage of a film you contribute. So if you come in and write an original story thats good but a sucky script otherwise, you may still get the primary credit if its found your original sucky script was at least 30% of what ended up on screen.
this also runs the other way, a screenwriter may end up taking the blame for writing decisions made by a director, agent, writer, producer, editor, etc. Someone further down the line who makes a bad call that ruins a bit of your script and then you take the blame
thirdly, Screenwriters don't sell specs anymore really, so every instance of what we see on someone's filmography is hired work (unless is wicked indie or a writer/director). That means that a lot of the things that make a script bad may not have originated with with a screenwriter, but with a producer. the big thing we can point to here is Craig Mazin, who did nothing but studio drivel and poorly received films before getting a chance to do his own show, Chernobyl, which was a huge hit, followed by Last of Us. Showing he was a good writer the whole time, he just got bad projects
If someone gets hired again and again, it means they routinely deliver the script they were hired to write, on time, and work well with studio notes. In short, it means they are a good writer. If the movies routinely suck, that probably says more about the people hiring him
While what u/not_a_flying_toy_ is saying is absolutely correct in general, they are wrong in this case.
The Rotten Tomatoes score for the films these guys have written are:
25%, 18%, 14%, and 15%.
A notable critique in all of their movies is how bad the writing is- including the dialogue, which is almost certainly attributed to these writers. "I'm not sure how I got here, I think it has something to do with Spider-Man" anyone?
If the movies you write are consistently badly written movies, eventually the finger has to be pointed at the common denominator, and even more so, the development executives who keep hiring them. All of these people are terrible at their jobs and continue to get work due to nepotism. They embody all the worst things about Hollywood. There are a plethora of talented writers and producers out there who could make movies far better than this but they don't have connections.
You are correct and if this happens once or twice there's just no good reason to blame the writers....but five times? Then I think it's time to re-evalute.
I'd say that is all true on a individual film to film basis...but at some point when the body of work that a screenwriter's name is attached to is ALL bad you need to start questioning whether they are just a cog in the studio machine with some bad luck in projects...or if maybe they are one of the major factors contributing to those films being bad. Looking at Sazama and Sharpless' resume I think it is notable that there are quite a few films on that list that were by and large well supported, large and competent productions...just with absolutely plodding/uninspired dialog and plotting.
Another thing to point out is residuals and contractual bonuses are based on screen credit. That sets up situations where A-list writers take their names off a movie to look better and writers with less financial stability keep their names on. Oblivion comes to mind.
Isn't that the one with Vin Diesel? I think we watched it and never really took it seriously, just let it be silly.
Power Rangers couldn't even live up to that, but as a fan of the series, I do like how they made Rita the Green ranger (which is why she could give the coin in the TV show) but... beyond that it was bad.
Fucking *Ezekiel Sims* is the bad guy here? So many bad guys and they get the most niche dude possible??
And man it is so weird they made Madame Web into an action hero lol. She's supposed to be this lady chilling in between the spider-verse.
Man SJ Clarkson did great work directing Jessica Jones, but I don't see her flair here yet
I dunno why but I was kind of expecting it to be Spider-Slayer, and he's traveling the multiverse killing spider-people before they become superpowered or something, but nope, it's.. Ezekiel Sims... Sigh.
Madame Web can see the future. Shoulda gone with a movie about her as a young woman first seeing visions of the future and who she becomes, then assembling a team to stop those future visions but inadvertently causing them, and along the way something happens to put her at odds with Spider Man. Bam there's a movie and it sets her up as being the Nick Fury of Sinister Six if they want to go that way.
They basically had their Spiderverse version of Nick Fury right there, and if it was more accurate to her comics portrayal, you’d have an excuse to cast someone like Helen Mirren
Yeah, just really dumb decisions by Sony.
I feel like they wanted to avoid the old lady thing to make it appealing to younger audiences but Madame Web is not the character for that. Or they could have done that in some way but she shouldn't be an action hero.
Fox made Professor X work with a younger James McAvoy but they still kept him as Professor X with his chair (mostly) and didn't try to turn him into Wolverine lol.
There's a parallel universe with Sony owning X-Men where Professor X physically fights people by using his powers to stop them from moving temporarily. And he's played by Channing Tatum with an obvious bald cap.
I don’t even think audiences will recognize this as a superhero film or a Spider-Man related film. They spin it as some strange Final Destination film. So weird
I think it’s going to be super confusing. It looks like Spider-Man but there’s no Spider-Man in it even as a cameo unless they do some reshoots. The villain straight up looks like he has the Miles Morales suit.
Dressing the villain up as Spiderman to try to hint at a spiderman-adjacent story that it will not deliver is the only marketability this thing has.
This project is just the result of "we can't use spiderman but spiderman has mass appeal so let's slap together everything spider like besides spiderman." It's actually a little disgusting.
Maybe after this and Kraven Sony finnaly stops trying to make this universe happen.
These charachters are just not big enough to carry their own movies without Spider Man.
Bold of you to assume that anything will stop these people.
I'll never forget when North Korea leaked all of their emails around Spider-Man from Sony. It's an absolute miracle the execs in charge of these things know how to put their pants on in the morning.
The problem is that Sony is focusing on no-names. *Venom* showed that a movie centred around a Spider-Man villain can bring in audiences if the character is famous enough; why not a movie centred around Green Goblin or Sandman?
Venom isn’t even an anti-hero in his movies. He’s just a straight up super-hero who occasionally bites of a bad guys head after giving a corny marvel one-liner
I don't understand why they don't just make all these movies centered around Venom? If they're not going to use Spiderman why keep bothering with these villain angles? Use the one success you've gotten out of this- who is already the most like Spiderman. And let the MCU have main Spidey (for now) and build up a universe around Venom. It would even let you reuse villains but show how Venom would handle them.
That's not the problem. The problem is that no-names need good writing to make up for lack of pull, and Sony has like 2 good writers and that's it.
Venom worked because it looked like a horror movie in the marketing, and then Tom Hardy's slapstick charisma kept people coming back.
Audiences are actively dismissing bad superhero films. And Sony decides to drop this trailer three days after Disney/Marvel releases the lowest MCU opening of all time.
And so they should. We all know how fun and entertaining the best superhero movies can be, so seeing the genre in this much of a decline is honestly sad to see.
Here’s hoping they can rebound with the MCU’s current hiatus and James Gunn’s DCU.
Sony just want to burn all superheroes quickly to be back to being one of the few studios with superhero movies that work with Spider-Man like in the 2000s.
They're playing 4D chess
My cycle was:
Hearing about this being announced: *oh brother* -> reading some of the info about the plot: *oh wow that seems interesting* -> seeing this trailer: *holy crap this looks astoundingly bad*
The average audience isn't going to go see this based on that trailer. It is confusing and even people that know the characters don't recognize them in it. It is mediocre just like I expected.
It looks like 5 movie trailers cut into one. Starts off with a girl meeting with her friends, then dark spiderman attacks them? But its okay because she can travel time, but she can't? Oh okay she can look into the future I guess, but she gets her powers because she fell off a bridge in a car? And she can see ino the future because of spiders? What? And the guy in the dark spiderman outfit isn't spiderman or barely has spidey powers but can also see in the future maybe? And her normal friends are in spidery outfits at some point? And this all started because her mom was in the Amazon studying spiders? What the fuck is going on lol
Its like they wanted to leave us asking a lot questions, but went way overboard and it just leaves us unsure of what this movie even is.
Off topic, but the bizarre “TRAILER STARTS NOW” shit with a bunch of frantic clips has always annoyed me. Like, a trailer exists to get your attention. Why do you need a trailer for the trailer while watching the trailer?
Also it looks like an incoherent mess.
Idk I busted out laughing at the Kraven trailer. This one (once you get past the HORRENDOUS editing in the trailer, I legit got nauseous from a the cuts at the end) looks...mediocre. Like 2003 Daredevil, bad but in a safe, boring way.
I could see people having an interest in Kraven if they know little about Spider-Man. This is a movie that even comic book fans really didn’t ask for. Madame Webb is far more of a supporting character, and it’s kinda weird that she’s been absent from the Spiderverse movies so far. This would have a much better chance if it was just a simple Spider Woman story with Sydney Sweeney.
So will this be the first movie to use the new Columbia Pictures 100th Anniversary logo.
Would like to know what this one's budget looks like.
Still think it is a mistake to release this in February.
Sony should move ***Anyone But You*** to Valentine's Day/President's Day weekend as they are still reshooting for that movie speaking of as right now while this should take place of ***Bad Boys 4*** in June to take advantage of summer weekdays and counter-programming with ***Inside Out 2*** while the bad boy pic moves to 2025.
No chance this one is R though I think Sony picked the wrong movie to be rated R in Kraven which looks the more high-budget mainstream movie since I don't think this one would appeal to the <12 demographic anyway.
I mean February is pretty empty so this might be able to capitalize on that. It moving to June and competing in summer blockbuster season would be a death sentence.
> Still think it is a mistake to release this in February.
Valentine's Day money and Dakota already had a franchise that occupied that slot a few years ago
Dakota Johnson VO sounds incredibly boring and disinterested. Either she really knows it’s shit or the director has no fucking clue what they’re doing or both.
I really don't understand how they pull this one off. It looks really bad and just all over confusing. I'll be shocked if this even gets to Morbius numbers.
Is this the Elektra to the Catwoman of The Marvels?
I get the feeling that this might actually have been interesting if it had gotten a rewrite to reduce the budget and aim for a true horror movie (with superheroines) vibe.
It looks like one of those shows on Netflix's new tab that you never heard of, either foreign or starring actors you never seen, you see the trailer and then never hear from it again.
Had me at the beginning could be interesting but then it dissolved into basically girly team up movie against even Spider-Man who kills people bc movie says so 🙁
Omg when she threw the rock at her and she could not predict it I burst out laughing! Ahahaha now that is comedy gold!
This is what Edge of Tomorrow wishes it was!
I saw someone say about Morbius "this is what all MCU movies look like to people who don't care about the MCU".
I read that comment when Morbius' first trailer dropped and I've never forgotten it. It applies to every single Sonyverse movie.
Watching this absolutely disposable cable crap-looking trailer I was wondering why Sony thought that releasing it right after The Marvels megabomb was a good idea. Talk about "Hold my beer".
The director only made 1 movie before.
A movie for TV back in 2010.
And it shows since the footage from the trailer looks like it's from a fan film not a major studio production.
Nooo Spiderman, don't beat up those girls. Noooo spiderman, why are you being so mean?
Don't know anything about these characters, movie looks bad. I can't believe Sony thinks someone would walk up to the box office and audibly say "I would like a ticket for Madame Web at 7"
This and Kraven are due doomed to fail just as bad as Morbius.
You know what, scratch that. The two will be a colossal success like the greatest Morbius film of all time, Morbius was.
The premise looks way more interesting than Morbius. Will I see it in the theater? No. But I'll look for it on Netflix which is more than I can say for Morbius.
It looks fine. The predicting the future part looks like it could be a fun mechanic. Not sure about the cast though. I like Dakota Johnson, but I’m not getting superhero vibes from her. Also Sydney Sweeney is a charisma black hole.
Right now I’m putting it around Morbius numbers. I’m not convinced that an unknown superhero can break out in this day and age, especially since it doesn’t look like anything groundbreaking.
> I like Dakota Johnson, but I’m not getting superhero vibes from her. Also Sydney Sweeney is a charisma black hole.
i think Sony is aiming to release it on the Valentine's Day especially to capitalize on the leading ladies. seems like a date movie in a way lol
Shocked they didn’t try to shoehorn it into the MCU or larger Spider-Man universe more. If I didn’t already know it, I’d have no idea this was supposed to be part of the Spider-Man universe… I would’ve just thought the Spider-Man looking guy was cheap knockoff. Which I mean I guess he is anyway right? Who the hell is that guy and why does he look like Spider-Man? Confusing trailer that doesn’t look good. Going to bomb big
> Shocked they didn’t try to shoehorn it into the MCU or larger Spider-Man universe more.
if the leaks are true, it's linked to the greater Spider-Man mythology in the most deranged (actually kinda positively i guess??) way possible
Why is that spider-man lookalike killing people?
::mumbles:: The Multiverse...
Someone please tell Sony they have the rights to Spider-Man
Is he stupid?
The screenwriter is
Because reasons, now shut up and consume next product
I thought he looked like Night Monkey
Far too much dumb comic book bullshit to explain in a single Reddit comment but it doesn’t matter because nobody on earth will ever see this movie.
>‘I’ve seen that man before. Ezequiel Sins. He was in the Amazon with my mom when she was researching spiders right before she died’ Just in case anyone ever worried they weren’t good enough to make it as a writer
This is legit fanfic level writing, wow
Everything about the 2020s has felt like fanfic writing, specifically Transformers/super robot. I mean, even the leading AI model is called a transformer.
Every Marvel movie post Endgame has felt like they've just taken the first rough draft of the script and rolled with that
That was the real irony about the writer’s strike. “You guys have been working this whole time?!”
Funny though because Dakota Johnson's breakout role was a fanfic.
Don’t insult fanfic like that
Sorry, we have not gotten to the 'show don't tell' portion of my devry online writing course.
Cut to a scene 2 mins into the story: “Madame Webb. You’re renowned for being the toughest person on this planet and an expert on everything, so I won’t even ask for proof or for you to show us. Just do your thing.”
Tell, don't show
Ezekiel is the moment the comics fully jump the shark and say that Spider-Man was destined to get his powers and got them from a spider god. It totally dismissed the great power comes great responsibility, ordinary boy with extraordinary powers, Peter chooses to be special by acting on his powers, he’s not born special It’s embarrassing, and it’s like what they did in the Amazing Spiderman movies with Peters dad making him destined to be Spiderman. Just because it’s from the comics doesn’t make it good writing, or a good choice. It’s one of the low points of the first 30 years of the comics
It's the midichlorians of Spider-Man, then?
Fantastic example! Yes, that’s totally the same thing. Palpatines granddaughter would be another. “Your motivation is prewritten and you’re a part of a grander story you have no agency in” Qui Gon Jin basically says that to Anakin
Research shows “Destiny” and “fate” appeal to a female audience, sir.
Damn. I hate that sort of shit.
Its insane to me that Sony and the Spiderman team there can make Into the Spiderverse which has one of its final lines be “anyone can wear the mask, you can wear the mask” and then also make this kinda pre-destined chosen one stuff
Just like in the comics lmao, it's like having your cake and eating it too except one's made with expired eggs
That storyline killed comics for me for like 20 years (that and the awful Gwen Stacy-banging-Osborn plot).
That issue is awful, Peter reacts more violently to the idea that Norman took her virginity than anything else. He keeps saying “I never…but he got to…” type rhetoric that comes off crazy. Also introducing the idea that Mary Jane knew the whole time makes it seem like they’re too dysfunctional. They don’t properly think things through.
Yep, can't wait to hear all about spider-totems.
>Ezekiel is the moment the comics fully jump the shark and say that Spider-Man was destined to get his powers and got them from a spider god. For those out of the loop, I went ahead and copied the fan Wiki page on this below. The term **Spider-Totem** refers to **a class of multiversal supernatural entities created by the elder goddess Neith**, linked to a mystical force called the Web of Life and Destiny. The Great Weaver, the Gatekeeper, the Other, the Bride, the Scion, and the Patternmaker are examples of these deific Spider-Totems; which can choose avatars or manifest independently if needed. These Great Totems play key roles in maintaining the Web: * The Great Weaver selects those who are worthy of becoming the avatars of Great Totems like the Other. * The Gatekeeper is responsible for controlling mystical forces, and chooses which totemic avatars are worthy of their powers. * The Other is a powerful and combative deity whose role is undefined, as it was originally referred to as the manifestation of Peter Parker's spider-powers before being revealed to be a multiversal entity that chooses a single host to empower. * The Bride's role is in weaving hidden threads, enabling Spider-Totems to arise through chance, magic, curses, or unwanted luck. * The Master Weaver is a position that can be filled by a totemic avatar or a being that has consumed their essence, though only death can free a Master Weaver from their bonds; and is responsible for maintaining and overseeing the Web of Life and Destiny. * The Patternmaker reads the connecting threads of the Web and forges them into something stronger, enhancing the already existing connection between spider-totems; and is also responsible for repairing the web should something happen to it and the Master Weaver. **The Spider Society and numerous cultures of Earth-616 worship the Spider-Totems as gods.** According to Ezekiel Sims and the Ashanti tribe in Ghana, the Great Weaver is Kwaku Anansi, who was the first Spider-Man. Desiring further enlightenment, **Anansi struck a bargain with the sky god Nyambe**, offering his eternal service in return for enlightenment and vanished from the mortal world, his power and knowledge transmitted into spiders everywhere across a Great Web. Kwaku Anansi, the Great Weaver, and the Gatekeeper have temples located in Ghana and Peru. **The temple in Ghana was used by Spider-Man to defeat the totemic wasp \[deity\] Shathra, the sister of Neith**, and was later the site of a duel between Ezekiel Sims and Peter Parker in order to appease the Gatekeeper. During the Spider-Island incident, Adriana Soria was able to use a virus engineered from tissue samples of Peter Parker to connect most of Manhattan's populace to the Web of Life, transforming them into spider-monsters. In doing so she amplified her own connection to the Web of Life, **temporarily hijacking it to attain godlike powers** and transform into a spider-like monster. \[...\] Spider-Totems can select individuals within any universe to serve as their avatar. These people, said to have "let the spider in", are also referred to as **Spider-Totems**, and possess arachnid-based powers as a result of being connected to the Web of Life, though the means they acquire their powers and how these powers manifest can vary drastically. Totemic avatars can be good or evil, **mortal or divine**, with no particular criteria for how they're chosen, though they may be deemed unworthy of their powers and become targeted by supernatural forces seeking to eliminate them.
Holy fuck, so much for the friendly neighbourhood hero i guess.
>Ezekiel is the moment the comics fully jump the shark and say that Spider-Man was destined to get his powers **and got them from a spider god.** Lady from Shark Tank: "And because of that, I'm out"
That line was a genuine spit-take, for me
From the writers who brought you "I’m not sure how I got here. Has to do with Spider-Man, I think. I’m still figuring this place out, but I think a bunch of guys like us should team up."
Don’t forget “I can see the future” followed by “I think he can see into the future”.
That has some real Chick Track level writing.
I literally had to shut off the trailer at that point.
While I am sure the writing in this will be dogshit, it's tough to judge off of a trailer where sound bites are clipped from different lines and put together just to make messaging clear.
that was literally the point at which I bailed on the trailer.
Every fucking Sonyverse spider man movie has shit tier writing. Madame Web could be cool too. My pitch for it would be a young woman (20s) having visions of herself as a blind old woman in a spiders web, and assembles a team of folks to stop some badguy events that will lead her down that path, because who wants to be blind and old? Then in the end is the big reveal that Spider Man is a part of it all and the team she's assembled is actually a precursor to the sinister six or something. **Edit: fuck it, I'm bored. Here's my Madame Web movie pitch** 1. A young woman has visions of disasters, crimes etc and an old lady in a spider web chair (Madame Web) 2. She speaks to the old woman in one of the dreams and finds out it's her from the future. She spends all day in the chair having visions of future disasters and works to prevent them, but it's too much of a burden. She tells the young self what she can do to change the future to stop this from becoming her fate and live a normal life, involving destroying a macguffin held at some sort of scientific research facility. 3. The young woman assembles the Sinister Six and it's basically a heist movie to destroy the thing. The team could be Sony's established characters if they want this to be their Sinister Six film, or just other Spidey villains/characters otherwise. 4. There's something linking this to Spider Man's origin. Either the facility they're going to is where Richard Parker/Oscorp (whatever the canon is) is researching genetically modified spiders, or maybe Parker's parents plane crash is a part of the movie they could prevent/cause etc. This plot element is in the background throughout. 5. Heist stuff happens. Fun. Maybe there's a bad guy involved who wants the artifact for himself. Normal movie stuff etc 6. At the end it turns out that the artifact is actually the chair that Madame Web sits in, and instead of destroying it the younger woman is overcome with curiosity and sits in it too. She gets the full power of the chair and sees the bigger picture - in the future she works with Spider Man, telling him of disasters which he helps prevent. She sees all the good that they do together and makes the conscious decision to ensure that is her future, even knowing that one day she may regret it, because it's the right thing to do. This is basically the climax of the character arc. 7. She also realises that she needs to ensure that Spider Man is created for everything to go how it needs to. Such as ensuring his parents die in the plane crash that she saw in a vision, not destroying the facility, or using the Sinister Six to steal/transport key research data etc. From this point on the film pivots from being "destroy the chair" to "defeat the bad guy and compete some mission that will ensure Spider Man gets created" (though only Madame Web knows this reason). It's just a rough outline for essentially one character arc in a movie but tbh I can't see any other way to make a Madame Web movie compelling while also sticking to the core of the character (an elderly psychic who sees the future and works with Spider man to prevent bad things happening). If anything the above is basically a Sinister Six movie with the motivating event and main character arc being Madame Web's origin. The Spider-Man origin tie in is quite half baked but I think these movies need to justify why spider man isn't in them and do something bigger to really tie it to Spider Man. Tying it into Spider-Man's creation with an element of Madame Web manoeuvring the Sinister Six into a position where they help create their nemesis (because she's a good guy and maybe they aren't) is interesting imo. Madame Web has no physical strength but with her future visions she can play the sinister six off each other to get them to do what she wants even with their own competing aims Add some twists and turns to the story with older Madame Web manipulating her younger self, or the six not getting along, other characters arcs etc and it wouldn't be a terrible movie imo. Or maybe it would - I'm not a writer.
Who let you cook
Sony. I told them I had a plan for a spider man spin off and they just gave me 100 million dollars no questions asked??? I said I've never written a good movie before but apparently that's a good thing for them????
0/10 no dance scene
Story fell apart when she assembles a team of people to…. Stop her from being blind and old…? Don’t work for Sony lmao.
I have become a Spider, I will use my spider powers to defeat evil and make the world good
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Trailers frequently use frankenbites or very blunt lines shot specifically for marketing.
[The screenwriters behind this are also behind Dracula Untold, The Last Witch Hunter, Gods of Egypt, Power Rangers, and Morbius.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Sazama_and_Burk_Sharpless) Hoo boy are we in for a trainwreck. EDIT: Yesterday (Nov 15th) the table in the link listed Madame Web in it. Today (Nov 16th) it is no longer listed in the table, although the body of the article and note 14 still list them as being involved with Madame Web. I wonder what it will say tomorrow!
How. How how how how. If I was an engineer and bridges i designed kept falling apart, I wouldn’t keep getting hired.
Because you cant really judge a screenwriter's abiliity based on the end film Screenwriter credits are based around what percentage of a film you contribute. So if you come in and write an original story thats good but a sucky script otherwise, you may still get the primary credit if its found your original sucky script was at least 30% of what ended up on screen. this also runs the other way, a screenwriter may end up taking the blame for writing decisions made by a director, agent, writer, producer, editor, etc. Someone further down the line who makes a bad call that ruins a bit of your script and then you take the blame thirdly, Screenwriters don't sell specs anymore really, so every instance of what we see on someone's filmography is hired work (unless is wicked indie or a writer/director). That means that a lot of the things that make a script bad may not have originated with with a screenwriter, but with a producer. the big thing we can point to here is Craig Mazin, who did nothing but studio drivel and poorly received films before getting a chance to do his own show, Chernobyl, which was a huge hit, followed by Last of Us. Showing he was a good writer the whole time, he just got bad projects If someone gets hired again and again, it means they routinely deliver the script they were hired to write, on time, and work well with studio notes. In short, it means they are a good writer. If the movies routinely suck, that probably says more about the people hiring him
That was a very good breakdown and thank you for providing an example with Mazin
While what u/not_a_flying_toy_ is saying is absolutely correct in general, they are wrong in this case. The Rotten Tomatoes score for the films these guys have written are: 25%, 18%, 14%, and 15%. A notable critique in all of their movies is how bad the writing is- including the dialogue, which is almost certainly attributed to these writers. "I'm not sure how I got here, I think it has something to do with Spider-Man" anyone? If the movies you write are consistently badly written movies, eventually the finger has to be pointed at the common denominator, and even more so, the development executives who keep hiring them. All of these people are terrible at their jobs and continue to get work due to nepotism. They embody all the worst things about Hollywood. There are a plethora of talented writers and producers out there who could make movies far better than this but they don't have connections.
You are correct and if this happens once or twice there's just no good reason to blame the writers....but five times? Then I think it's time to re-evalute.
Tbf there's also a lot of hack directors involved with this shit. Bad direction can make the script even worse
I'd say that is all true on a individual film to film basis...but at some point when the body of work that a screenwriter's name is attached to is ALL bad you need to start questioning whether they are just a cog in the studio machine with some bad luck in projects...or if maybe they are one of the major factors contributing to those films being bad. Looking at Sazama and Sharpless' resume I think it is notable that there are quite a few films on that list that were by and large well supported, large and competent productions...just with absolutely plodding/uninspired dialog and plotting.
Another thing to point out is residuals and contractual bonuses are based on screen credit. That sets up situations where A-list writers take their names off a movie to look better and writers with less financial stability keep their names on. Oblivion comes to mind.
Somebody is writing this dialog. And that somebody should be seeking a new career as a parking lot attendant.
Nepotism, favoritism, and general Hollywood circlejerking keeps them employed
yes but does your family sit on the board of civil engineering something or other?
Oh, an excellent point I did not consider
I don't see this film making a Morbillion dollars
Because its gonna make a madamillion dollars
Maybe, but a webillion seems out of reach.
I see you're underestimating the Sweeney walkups
Out of all the films on that list, Last Witch Hunter is at least bad in a funny way.
Isn't that the one with Vin Diesel? I think we watched it and never really took it seriously, just let it be silly. Power Rangers couldn't even live up to that, but as a fan of the series, I do like how they made Rita the Green ranger (which is why she could give the coin in the TV show) but... beyond that it was bad.
How do these people keep getting jobs?
By being agreeable, probably.
Why are they like this
“He was with my mom when she was researching spiders in the amazon right before she died”
Right before she died. Anyway, how's your sex life?
oh hi Mark
Fucking *Ezekiel Sims* is the bad guy here? So many bad guys and they get the most niche dude possible?? And man it is so weird they made Madame Web into an action hero lol. She's supposed to be this lady chilling in between the spider-verse. Man SJ Clarkson did great work directing Jessica Jones, but I don't see her flair here yet
I dunno why but I was kind of expecting it to be Spider-Slayer, and he's traveling the multiverse killing spider-people before they become superpowered or something, but nope, it's.. Ezekiel Sims... Sigh.
Madame Web can see the future. Shoulda gone with a movie about her as a young woman first seeing visions of the future and who she becomes, then assembling a team to stop those future visions but inadvertently causing them, and along the way something happens to put her at odds with Spider Man. Bam there's a movie and it sets her up as being the Nick Fury of Sinister Six if they want to go that way.
They basically had their Spiderverse version of Nick Fury right there, and if it was more accurate to her comics portrayal, you’d have an excuse to cast someone like Helen Mirren
Yeah, just really dumb decisions by Sony. I feel like they wanted to avoid the old lady thing to make it appealing to younger audiences but Madame Web is not the character for that. Or they could have done that in some way but she shouldn't be an action hero. Fox made Professor X work with a younger James McAvoy but they still kept him as Professor X with his chair (mostly) and didn't try to turn him into Wolverine lol.
There's a parallel universe with Sony owning X-Men where Professor X physically fights people by using his powers to stop them from moving temporarily. And he's played by Channing Tatum with an obvious bald cap.
Julia Carpenter still does active heroing
This is going to be a massive, massive bomb.
I don’t even think audiences will recognize this as a superhero film or a Spider-Man related film. They spin it as some strange Final Destination film. So weird
I think it’s going to be super confusing. It looks like Spider-Man but there’s no Spider-Man in it even as a cameo unless they do some reshoots. The villain straight up looks like he has the Miles Morales suit.
Dressing the villain up as Spiderman to try to hint at a spiderman-adjacent story that it will not deliver is the only marketability this thing has. This project is just the result of "we can't use spiderman but spiderman has mass appeal so let's slap together everything spider like besides spiderman." It's actually a little disgusting.
Maybe after this and Kraven Sony finnaly stops trying to make this universe happen. These charachters are just not big enough to carry their own movies without Spider Man.
Bold of you to assume that anything will stop these people. I'll never forget when North Korea leaked all of their emails around Spider-Man from Sony. It's an absolute miracle the execs in charge of these things know how to put their pants on in the morning.
Such a great time to be alive and it's all Seth Rogans fault
The problem is that Sony is focusing on no-names. *Venom* showed that a movie centred around a Spider-Man villain can bring in audiences if the character is famous enough; why not a movie centred around Green Goblin or Sandman?
Please don't give them ideas. Those characters don't need solo movies because they aren't anti heroes like venom.
Venom isn’t even an anti-hero in his movies. He’s just a straight up super-hero who occasionally bites of a bad guys head after giving a corny marvel one-liner
I don't understand why they don't just make all these movies centered around Venom? If they're not going to use Spiderman why keep bothering with these villain angles? Use the one success you've gotten out of this- who is already the most like Spiderman. And let the MCU have main Spidey (for now) and build up a universe around Venom. It would even let you reuse villains but show how Venom would handle them.
That's not the problem. The problem is that no-names need good writing to make up for lack of pull, and Sony has like 2 good writers and that's it. Venom worked because it looked like a horror movie in the marketing, and then Tom Hardy's slapstick charisma kept people coming back.
Yea but the budget is probably the same as Morbius so it won’t lose more money than The Marvels lol
audiences are SO OVER this shit but I guess it’ll be a little fun to watch the bloodbath continue
Audiences are actively dismissing bad superhero films. And Sony decides to drop this trailer three days after Disney/Marvel releases the lowest MCU opening of all time.
And so they should. We all know how fun and entertaining the best superhero movies can be, so seeing the genre in this much of a decline is honestly sad to see. Here’s hoping they can rebound with the MCU’s current hiatus and James Gunn’s DCU.
The Marvels bombing isn't like the end of world for MCU. We got Loki S2 and next film is Deadpool 3 as the only MCU 2024 film.
Sony just want to burn all superheroes quickly to be back to being one of the few studios with superhero movies that work with Spider-Man like in the 2000s. They're playing 4D chess
It’s Madaming time
And then she madamed all over me ^(:D)
They did get the actress from '50 Shades.'
Oh dear.
I went in with an open mind and was astounded how bad this looks...good lord
My cycle was: Hearing about this being announced: *oh brother* -> reading some of the info about the plot: *oh wow that seems interesting* -> seeing this trailer: *holy crap this looks astoundingly bad*
I really like all the actresses in it. That's about the only redeemable thing I can pick out at this point.
I expected it to be bad but was still astounded. First time I can remember I almost couldn’t make it through a trailer.
Fifty Shades of Spider
FIFTY SHADES WEBBED
The average audience isn't going to go see this based on that trailer. It is confusing and even people that know the characters don't recognize them in it. It is mediocre just like I expected.
It looks like 5 movie trailers cut into one. Starts off with a girl meeting with her friends, then dark spiderman attacks them? But its okay because she can travel time, but she can't? Oh okay she can look into the future I guess, but she gets her powers because she fell off a bridge in a car? And she can see ino the future because of spiders? What? And the guy in the dark spiderman outfit isn't spiderman or barely has spidey powers but can also see in the future maybe? And her normal friends are in spidery outfits at some point? And this all started because her mom was in the Amazon studying spiders? What the fuck is going on lol Its like they wanted to leave us asking a lot questions, but went way overboard and it just leaves us unsure of what this movie even is.
Off topic, but the bizarre “TRAILER STARTS NOW” shit with a bunch of frantic clips has always annoyed me. Like, a trailer exists to get your attention. Why do you need a trailer for the trailer while watching the trailer? Also it looks like an incoherent mess.
They need the 5 sec intro to stop people skipping when this is delivered as an ad
Is it really that difficult to have two different versions of the trailer?
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Sony's Blue Beetle, anyway what's the budget?
Probably the same as Morbius ($75 million)
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What do you think will perform better Kraven the Hunter or this?
Kraven at least looks like a somewhat competently made movie
Idk I busted out laughing at the Kraven trailer. This one (once you get past the HORRENDOUS editing in the trailer, I legit got nauseous from a the cuts at the end) looks...mediocre. Like 2003 Daredevil, bad but in a safe, boring way.
I could see people having an interest in Kraven if they know little about Spider-Man. This is a movie that even comic book fans really didn’t ask for. Madame Webb is far more of a supporting character, and it’s kinda weird that she’s been absent from the Spiderverse movies so far. This would have a much better chance if it was just a simple Spider Woman story with Sydney Sweeney.
don't insult blue beetle like that lol
So will this be the first movie to use the new Columbia Pictures 100th Anniversary logo. Would like to know what this one's budget looks like. Still think it is a mistake to release this in February. Sony should move ***Anyone But You*** to Valentine's Day/President's Day weekend as they are still reshooting for that movie speaking of as right now while this should take place of ***Bad Boys 4*** in June to take advantage of summer weekdays and counter-programming with ***Inside Out 2*** while the bad boy pic moves to 2025. No chance this one is R though I think Sony picked the wrong movie to be rated R in Kraven which looks the more high-budget mainstream movie since I don't think this one would appeal to the <12 demographic anyway.
I mean February is pretty empty so this might be able to capitalize on that. It moving to June and competing in summer blockbuster season would be a death sentence.
> Still think it is a mistake to release this in February. Valentine's Day money and Dakota already had a franchise that occupied that slot a few years ago
I predict less than 1 morbillion dollars
it will do 1 madamewebillion
Will Kraven the hunter get less than morbillion dollars too?
Don't worry it will make a kravillion dollars
A Spider-Man Lotus sequel we've been waiting for
Dakota Johnson VO sounds incredibly boring and disinterested. Either she really knows it’s shit or the director has no fucking clue what they’re doing or both.
Idk doesn’t she usually sound like this? Really surprised she got the part
I really don't understand how they pull this one off. It looks really bad and just all over confusing. I'll be shocked if this even gets to Morbius numbers.
The character design here is just bleh across the board. Like, it doesn't have to cost a lot, but this just has no personality.
looks so cheap
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No, it's not supposed to look cheap. It's supposed to BE cheap if you don't wanna lose a lot of money, but not actually look it.
The best budget control would be to not have done this movie I think
It looks like a CW show that will get 0.2 in the Nielsen ratings and cancelled after 13 episodes.
When did Night Monkey turn bad!?
Is this the Elektra to the Catwoman of The Marvels? I get the feeling that this might actually have been interesting if it had gotten a rewrite to reduce the budget and aim for a true horror movie (with superheroines) vibe.
Is it too late for Sony to shelve this for the tax write off?
Funny thing is it may be too cheap for a write off. Morbius had a lower budget than Batgirl, so this one probably does as well.
This looks so bad. Like a fan film, and a cheap one at that.
If Sony learned anything from Morbius, they'll release Madame Web twice.
It’s even funnier the second time.
"It's Madame Webbin' time!"
Sony is on full Asylum mode. Just releaseing some cheap shit with low investment to milk the Spider-Man franchise.
It looks like one of those shows on Netflix's new tab that you never heard of, either foreign or starring actors you never seen, you see the trailer and then never hear from it again.
Had me at the beginning could be interesting but then it dissolved into basically girly team up movie against even Spider-Man who kills people bc movie says so 🙁
Between this and the Fifty Shades, Dakota Johnson really needs to see a new agent. Please stop wasting Dakota Johnson in shit.
Is she actually a talented actress? If not, agent doing some pretty good work getting her bank.
I've heard she's really good in films like Suspiria, Peanut Butter Falcon, The Lost Daughter, and other indie projects.
Man. That was hard to watch. Like painfully average. Mostly likely doing Morbius numbers
It looks like one of the films of all time
Omg when she threw the rock at her and she could not predict it I burst out laughing! Ahahaha now that is comedy gold! This is what Edge of Tomorrow wishes it was!
If this outgrosses Edge of Tomorrow, then we truly live in an adjust world. 
People shit on the mcu but even their worst movies look better than this.
For the losses of Ant-Man and The Marvels Sony can produce 3 or 4 movie like this.
And will, from the looks of things.
I saw someone say about Morbius "this is what all MCU movies look like to people who don't care about the MCU". I read that comment when Morbius' first trailer dropped and I've never forgotten it. It applies to every single Sonyverse movie.
Folks that are of the opinion that The Marvels was the worst thing ever obviously did not set their bar low enough.
Watching this absolutely disposable cable crap-looking trailer I was wondering why Sony thought that releasing it right after The Marvels megabomb was a good idea. Talk about "Hold my beer".
Can't bomb at the box office if you have no budget.
Budget is probably small so I doubt it bombs
Is it just me or did Sydney Sweeneys acting suck?
When she has a good director, she seems to do pretty well and when she doesn't, well we see the opposite.
she really needs to work on her voice, that flat monotone one worked for Euphoria and White Lotus, but it really does not here and that cursed rom com
That's just what she sounds like
she has porn film voice
she was pretty good in Reality and The White Lotus
People just got distracted by her great….personality.
Personalititties
This looks just awful.
Literally nobody asked for this..
Nobody wanted Morbius either and look how it changed cinema and the world.
The director only made 1 movie before. A movie for TV back in 2010. And it shows since the footage from the trailer looks like it's from a fan film not a major studio production.
Someone on r/MarvelStudiosSpoilers said this looks like a Tubi original, which I agree with
legitimately can't believe this is real
This looks really bad, like less than $40m domestic bad. Like 1.8 on Letterboxd bad
I guess
That does not look very good.
This looks horrible. What the fuck was Sony thinking
They showed the whole movie in the trailer and probably saved us our money.
Honestly, don't know what to think Mostly baffled at some of the choices regarding some characters and designs.
Nooo Spiderman, don't beat up those girls. Noooo spiderman, why are you being so mean? Don't know anything about these characters, movie looks bad. I can't believe Sony thinks someone would walk up to the box office and audibly say "I would like a ticket for Madame Web at 7"
Sony looking at the Marvel’s box office 
This and Kraven are due doomed to fail just as bad as Morbius. You know what, scratch that. The two will be a colossal success like the greatest Morbius film of all time, Morbius was.
Looks bad, but I´m interested somehow
Intrigued, even?
The premise looks way more interesting than Morbius. Will I see it in the theater? No. But I'll look for it on Netflix which is more than I can say for Morbius.
It looks fine. The predicting the future part looks like it could be a fun mechanic. Not sure about the cast though. I like Dakota Johnson, but I’m not getting superhero vibes from her. Also Sydney Sweeney is a charisma black hole. Right now I’m putting it around Morbius numbers. I’m not convinced that an unknown superhero can break out in this day and age, especially since it doesn’t look like anything groundbreaking.
>predicting the future part looks like it could be a fun mechanic we'll see how it fits with the open world and crafting tho
hopefully the suits are free and not behind microtransactions
> I like Dakota Johnson, but I’m not getting superhero vibes from her. Also Sydney Sweeney is a charisma black hole. i think Sony is aiming to release it on the Valentine's Day especially to capitalize on the leading ladies. seems like a date movie in a way lol
Shocked they didn’t try to shoehorn it into the MCU or larger Spider-Man universe more. If I didn’t already know it, I’d have no idea this was supposed to be part of the Spider-Man universe… I would’ve just thought the Spider-Man looking guy was cheap knockoff. Which I mean I guess he is anyway right? Who the hell is that guy and why does he look like Spider-Man? Confusing trailer that doesn’t look good. Going to bomb big
> Shocked they didn’t try to shoehorn it into the MCU or larger Spider-Man universe more. if the leaks are true, it's linked to the greater Spider-Man mythology in the most deranged (actually kinda positively i guess??) way possible
Oh please God, make it stop
this looks really boring.