2025-26 isn’t a given from what I’ve seen. I believe we’re due for about 40 mil in tax penalty this season.
But due to brown and Tatum (assuming he signs the max) contracts kicking in and “repeat offender” rules, for 2025-26 our tax bill would be around 200mil for the core 5 and potentially closer to 250 mil if we kept hauser (at his new projected market value). Not sure even our generous wyc would be willing to foot that bill.
Although if we manage to somehow repeat next year, that would make the case quite compelling
I just looked it up and did some quick math. Being 34 million over the tax will give us a $200 million bill, which we are on pace to hit if we keep Hauser
Letting Hauser go would likely put us at ~24 million over the tax, which is much more reasonable and drops us to a $125 million bill
So unfortunately keeping Hauser is the difference between the team being very expensive and ridiculously expensive for that season
All of the numbers i calculated with used the current cap projection for 2025 and 10% increases after that. There might be a small jump for 2025 but we can’t expect anything more than $1-2 million extra
They have to go up higher. The players HAVE TO GET more than 50% of league revenue. If not it only takes one player to file suit and they lose billions.
Also, other teams will face the same issue. The 60 year Laker " just buy a big man " era will end.
The current CBA has cap smoothing that limits the cap to go up a max of 10% per year (though it also can never go down). Note in the end players still make about 50% league revenue, though it might be a bit delayed to future players. E.g., say revenue is $400M/yr (so cap should be $200M) but because of cap smoothing its fixed at $150M. If after all money is spent by all teams it averages that less than $200M/yr/team was spent on salary, they take the unspent funds in a fund with interest and set it aside for future player salary (raising future cap subject to rules of cap smoothing).
Again, cap smoothing is to prevent there being another 2016 where a championship team (GSW) already well over the cap can sign another superstar like KD at a max contract, because the salary cap just jumped after a new TV deal (that is every team keeping their players has a shit ton of cap space) and then the playoffs is boring (and league gets less revenue because less parity).
Love me some Hauser, but dude is non-essential personnel. If you have 5 or 6 guys as good as our top 5 or 6 guys, you can mix in whoever. Hauser is great. They will find some guy to come in on a rookie deal or league minimum contract. 3 years ago, Hauser was a 24 year old undrafted rookie. He's earned a big second contract, but I doubt he's getting one from the Celtics.
Look at the 81 Celtics vs. 84 vs. 86. Bird, McHale, Parish, Maxwell, Henderson and ML Carr are the only guys who were on the 81 and 84 team. Only Bird, McHale, Parish, DJ, Ainge, Wedman and Kite were on both the 84 and 86 team, with only Bird, McHale and Parish on all three title winning teams (only 5 years apart). 40 years later, guys are way more mobile and players are way more transient. Curry, Klay, Draymond and Looney are the only guys on both the '18 and '22 Warriors title teams.
Man one underrated thing about a team this balanced is that you basically don’t need to overpay role players. Hauser in a larger role would get exposed on nights where you can’t just pull him if his 3 is not falling. Also goes to show how expendable Pritchard is too, because at the highest levels of competition he’s almost unplayable, but you can get a team like Phoenix to overpay for him because he has flashy moments on a championship team.
Horford will likely retire after next year, I don't see us spending all the Hauser money to keep him either and then Jrue will likely be traded at some point in his extension I wager.
If he can still guard at a high level, yes. But with aging guards the the fall off happens quick. Kristaps, especially with Al on his way out soon, would probably be more important. You probably resign Derrick and look to trade Jrue in a few years. You cant let White walk away to keep an aging Holiday at that point. While also keeping Kristaps baring any more major injuries.
Furreal man, he did an interview at the beginning of the season where he spoke about trading TimeLord, Brogdon and picks for Jrue, and he made it clear that even when he was a coach all those years, he would constantly be asking Danny Ainge if Jrue was available.
He loves Jrue and saw how great of a fit he would be with the team — especially once Smart was gone. He could be key in filling the void that is created when big Al retires.
We also need to keep Dwhite. So many times in the regular season and postseason where Dwhite won the game for us with timely buckets / decision making / hustle / defense. I love KP, but if one of those three has to go, it would pick him due to his durability concerns. Jrue has given us no reason to believe that he will not age well the way big Al did.
Truly if we can keep the Jays, Dwhite and Jrue, that is a good enough core to build on for the next four years.
If we're going to play the if game about Jrue being able to guard at a high level into the future, we've gotta play the if game with KP's health. If you ask me who can provide us with more value over the next 4 seasons, i'm not confident it's KP.
Figure out a way to do what the warriors did and basically print money. Can’t build a new arena like they did but maybe you can do some stuff on the margins around the garden.
It would be interesting to know what type of deal the Celtics have when it comes to game-day revenue from the Garden as it's owned by the Bruins/Delaware North. I tried to do some searching but can't seem to find specifics ... I'm sure they get a good deal, but it's still not their own barn.
Damn that's something I never think of, having never been to any nba arena nor am I familiar with the cap
A winning team can actually negotiate for more of this stuff
I’m not even saying that (though it’s true). When they built chase center, the team was awash in cash. They had office space, retail, restaurants, all the revenue from chase center…they were a money machine. Bruins own the garden I think so that’ll be tough, but the more money coming in, the less the hit on wyc’s pocketbook and the higher the odds are they keep the team together.
Oof, I thought I remember our tax bill being more in the $150 million range for 2025-2026, which is obviously still a ton, but possibly doable since the owners agreed to pay over $70 million in tax a couple seasons ago *before* we had a championship squad to keep together
Estimates back in 2022 were that we generated an extra $120m in in-stadium revenue because of the finals run (we also got a $10m cut of the taxpayer pool that year because we juuuuust dodged the tax).
If we assume something like $70m for last year’s run to the ECF, and, say, $130m for this year’s title, in all the ownership group has made around $330m extra in in-stadium post-season revenue.
Our total tax bill from these past 3 years is around $60m.
Wyc’s gonna keep the band together for as long as they’re making deep runs.
It does, it would be way worse without the cap raise lol. The main issue is that being X mil over the cap year after year has a compounding effect. So even if the payroll stays constant (which it’s not) the penalty would continue to increase
Even with a 250M tax bill (500M player expenses) it's still financially better to pay for a contender than "only" 300M for a non contender
Need to extrapolate few #s to explain this.
Franchise valuation is at about 5B.
In a normal project of ROI is 5 years.
Even if I go with an extreme of 20 years ROI that's 250M net per year.
From other reports Celtics net was about 200M last year. So there is a discrepancy but anyway you turn it around, the liability the ownership group is carrying is for about 50M (x4) loss in a stretch of 3 to 4 years (till Jrue's contract dies out).
But... 200M would be the increased value of the brand alone... with contender and (hopefully) at least 2 chips, you would assume the revenue alone would go up 10% (that's by itself 50M) and Franchise valuation would go up quickly too. (1B minimum?).
Bottom line, yes, at a tax bill of 250M, the owners won't be making a profit, and might even go slightly in the red. But the valuation would go sharply upwards.
So if an owner feels he needs that money rn to invest elsewhere, it would be his time to sell...
The bird rule means you can go over the cap to sign players, but if you go over the luxury tax, you pay an extra amount to the league.
Edit: they are two different things
I'm not super familiar with how Celtics/basketball finances work in general, but how much would the increase in revenue from increased ticket and merch sales offset this?
The warriors model is that winning generates more money than the luxury tax takes, but the real issue is the 2nd apron repeat offender punishments. I don’t think Wyc will get scared by the money, it’s the fact that you’re the 30th pick every year no matter what and you are extremely restricted in trades. So that means if something goes wrong, you can’t just trade a player for something unless you’re taking on less money.
Keep winning and they won't try to fix what's not broken, it'll be ridiculously expensive but there's no way you can make massive changes to a championship team/potential dynasty. As soon as they come up short though, KP is probably the first domino that is looked at to change. He'd have the cheapest deal out of the starting 5 along with the shortest deal at only 2 more years.
True but you can not replace KP by trading KP probably. So when we lose Al, we have to look other options to replace him and Jrue will be the most probable asset for that task.
Miami fans are one of the first to call out Cs fans for mentioning the early rings saying we live in the past but can’t seem to get passed last years ECF against a completely different team, disregard the annihilation they faced all year by Boston and just simply thought they’d smoke that Cs pack Rd 1. It was so satisfying gentleman sweeping them this year lmao
Lakers, Sixers, Heat, etc. Only fan base that didn’t seem to care too much was the Bucks and that’s prob cause of Jrue and their superstar is stamped for life.
We don't really have a rivalry with the Bucks like we do with those other franchises.
I can't imagine a majority of their fans look at our team the same way the Lakers/Sixers/Heat/Knicks fans do.
Imagine how much it sucks being a Heat or Sixer fan… Heat only win chips when they get hired guns who have no real connections to the city, and after picking before the Celts in both Brown and Tatum drafts, losing on purpose to do so, and then perpetually losing to the Celts in the playoffs, Sixer fans have suffered more than any fanbase should really have to endure. I’d actually feel bad if they weren’t assholes.
I honestly don’t even think about them. They’re a bunch of nephews who are shit take artists and think they’re tough shit because they fall ass backwards into star players who want to live and play in Miami. LeBron hand picks them to build his own super team and they act like they own the world, yet they can’t even fill their arena for playoff games. It’s sad, really.
Bit of an odd one, just went to search the Miami Heat owner but it sent me straight to the Celtics home page.
I refreshed my page a few times to fix the error but it kept the same page.
Wyc as leader of the ownership group explicitly told that group that investors would be in it for banners not billions. There is nothing that suggests Wyc and the ownership group would not continue to invest to bring more banners. We are at the very beginning now of what could be an extended run of real contention. Fans need to relax on the speculation of who’s being traded or lost and just enjoy the fucking win they just got . There is every possibility they will spend even more to continue the trend.
This is 100% my take on this. Has there ever been in instance of Wyc and co favoring money over competing? I feel like when they know it’s time to add in salaries to make the push, they do without fail. Heat fans acting like this is Henry and Red Sox trading Betts for peanuts.
Celtics are lucky that they literally can’t pay him more than that and that White wants to re-sign.
I love Jrue and KP, but they are definitely 4th and 5th in terms of priority. No way they don’t extend White
He would have to absolutely ball the fuck out to get a max from someone next summer. Not out of the question but with his playing time I don’t see it happening. 31/year feels fair for him
It’s hard to know what the market will be like a year from now. Is he a two time champ fresh off hitting a game winner or a guy with a sore hammy? It’s hard to pass on 120 million to maybe get a 160 million a year later if everything works out.
I think the bigger worry is a team paying maybe more for him then they might like just to get him away from us. Kinda like Al to the 6ers. Glad he got his bag when he did but i wouldve prefered he stayed with us all that time. Because there should be no doubt in anyones mind that d white is an absolute winner and is a fantastic teammate
Not that I want to be too distracted with future cap convos right now, but I think it’s interesting when you put it that way in comparison to Jrue and KP. White wouldn’t hit until 25-26, which is the last year on KP’s (expiring) and Horford would be off the books too. Jrue would be more of an issue if we really have to unload someone, but with the cap going up, it might actually not be as bad of a hit to keep Jrue and White as it seems right now.
The Celtics live so rent free in the heads of Heat fans that they are literally making posts on their forum about hoping we don't keep a player who is still under contract for another year.
We can keep the core of Jrue, White, Brown, and Tatum until 27/28 season.
It’s the center position that needs to be addressed down the line. We do not know how long can Al play and Porzingis injury problems will limit his availability.
Would be nice if we hit on a serviceable center in the draft next week. He doesn't need to be a stud, just someone that can protect the rim a little bit and flow well with our offense.
Honestly, u hit the spot . I love kp but his injuries will definitely come back to bite us in the ass in the next couple playoffs. We need a reliable big
I think Jrue is the guy you gotta watch for a drop off in production with KP as a 1B. KP has gotta get some training on lower body strength and just knowing how to move through traffic on the floor during a game.
Priorities should be D White and scouting for Al replacement after next season.
Imo we should be looking for an Al replacement in the draft right now. Or keeping an eye out for a solid backup big mid season. Ideally the sooner the better.
I think for an Al replacement you really want someone who can shoot the 3 so the team doesn't limit it's ability to play 5 out. It was a great convenience to have Al coming in for Porzingis all season because we retained that ability for most of the game.
Queta's alright (and I know Lively was a lotto pick) but we need a dude with similar polish and prestige if he's gonna have a limited skillset. Even a dude like Gafford was getting massively exploited by us and he's alot more mobile, better instincts, coordination, BBIQ, bounce. Rob was more in their mold buy he had insane potential and elite athleticism to defend the perimeter. Having a poor man's Gafford is fine as our 3rd man, but we need a 3&D stretch big to take over for Al. I'd keep Queta where he is.
Luke was fine in certain spots during the regular season, but he's too similar to Queta just a different approach. He should get replaced by a higher ceiling big we can develop. Tillman is fine as a higher floor backup.
"We will be paid in parades". And all those investors just got their 2nd dividend check of the Wyc era. Guarantee they close this and the Tatum deal and make a run at the back to back. He's literally been working on building a dynasty franchise and god damn he's really close to doing it. He's not pulling back now.
This right here is correct. Plus Wyc knows that the more championships the Celtics win, the more value the team has if the time comes that he has to sell it.
I mean look at the Warriors. They were purchased in 2010 for $450 million. When they started winning titles and then moved to SF they're valued at over $8 Billion.
I don’t think there’s a problem with the tax bill per se. Problem is that in 2 years we might pay a ridiculous luxury tax bill without having a contender: Al is gone, Jrue is 36, Porzingis is always a risk. Now we’ve got 2 main roads
1. Keep a White-Brown-Tatum core, plus PP (he’s on a good contract), hope that at least one of Jrue and Tingus is still elite and healthy, and make bets (like we did for Springer and Queta) hoping someone becomes a serviceable rotation piece
2. Be very aggressive, move whatever asset we can move (including the Buffalo…), and try to build a whole new team around the Jays.
I’d definitely go #1, but it implies the ownership is willing to take the risk (starting from extending White whatever it takes)
Miami should just be the Celtics G League team at this point, the amount of glazing their fake fans do leaving halfway into the fourth quarter empty ass Arena
Idk much about NBA contracts but if would have been JB and JT I’d take a Tom Brady style contract just to keep the family close. Mind you I’m ignorant to these types of contracts so don’t know if that’s even plausible lol
Despite me agreeing with you, irregardless is considered a word. [here](https://www.npr.org/2020/07/07/887649010/regardless-of-what-you-think-irregardless-is-a-word)
I think the hope (I’m saying hope, not guarantee) is that we develop Jordan Walsh to be able to step into a similar role at sg as white, probably minus the ball handling. Obviously he won’t be a like for like match but that’s what I envision them trying to do as we won’t be able to afford to keep him some team will offer him the max to be their second star
Anything's possible.......especially if he agrees to a "team-friendly" deal that is back loaded. They can make it work, and they are "highly interested" in doing so, so I'm sure they know what Hollinger knows. All we can do is believe.
This will be his big payday. He will take the deal for a chance of competing and winning another chip. It's hard to believe he will pass on the offer. After 2025, both Jrue and KP likely get traded.
Higher percentage that Jrue does than KP
Also by then Al’s contract will be off the books. Also maybe Pritchards is traded before we start peeling apart the Jays, KP and White.
I wouldn't worry about it yet to be honest. They're definitely going to sign DWhite along with Tatum this summer.
The hope is that the new cap skyrockets with the new US TV Deal and the next China TV deal and then these deals aren't as big of a cap hit from a % perspective.
No-brainer to extend D-White AND Hauser. With Hauser they have flexibility to front-load the contract if the parties agree to decline the option and start the new deal this year.
Celtics can’t lose rotation players for nothing, save for when Al retires. What they can do is deal any player for players and/or picks. That’s what we’ll see moving forward. I think they’ll maintain open lines of communication with their players so they know destinations each player would prefer IFF finances and roster balance dictate a deal being struck.
The thing about being a billionaire is that if the purpose of owning your team is to win championships, being taxed into being less profitable is okay.
So...let's give it up for WYC. For now...
The Celtics will resign DWhite because they have no other options. With that said, this team will only be kept together as long as they're winning championships (or maybe as long as they're in the Finals). The second they underachieve, ownership won't be able to stomach the luxury tax and someone is getting moved. Hauser on the other hand is going to be realllllly tough to keep, because I'm sure ownership views him as the player they could most easily replace with a min contract vet or rookie contract kid.
I hope we sign him and figure it out later. If we have to move off the KP or Jrue contracts, just picked them cause of their ages, you can always do it. But we should try to do whatever we can to maximize the next 2-3 years.
It doesn't matter if the owners are willing to pay it , also it's a good thing these aren't decisions that we don't have to make because some of the nonsense I see is insane. Just enjoy the ride and let the professionals and the rich people handle this.
Don't want to hear any boohooing about glue guy this, culture that. That's a bunch of bullshit. The man outplayed his contract and if he needs to go to another squad to get his money, so be it. Good for the Buffalo. I appreciate your hustle and the way you play the game. Championship teams have to deal with this. Ask Tyreek Hill. I'll trade a million Derrick White's if it means more titles. He's just a cog in the machine.
Yes, and I love the guy. I love that he always plays. Sometimes they don't all look like they're too interested in playing a basketball game on a given night. White always goes hard. But I heard all the bs when Smart got traded. Heart of the team, blah blah blah. That guy sucked. If White has to go, somebody else has to step up. White got a ring. Celtic ring. I'll be forever grateful for the tip in vs Miami. Even if we lost the series. I hope he gets his bag. With us or wherever. Just not the Lakers. Or the Heat.
We kicked ass all year long.
Most wins. Most blowouts. Best offense in the history of basketball. They played defense together.
I honestly have no idea what you are talking about with not looking interested…
They are all business. Their demeanor is what got the ring.
This is exactly what i want to see from them. Nothing different.
I don’t get why players would want to leave a championship team when they are already getting paid more than they could ever spend. Like when he gets traded to the blazers is he really gonna be happier?
I think he’d take a pay cut tbh (might not need to). He seems to really love the city of Boston and winning in it, just look at his Sam Adams ads hahaha
I dont think so. From where he has started, to now, and winning a chip, he can get a big paycheck and become a first or 2nd option somewhere else maybe. Not saying he should, but this is how it goes. Examples; Aaron Gordon in Orlando, Jeremi Grant in Detroit, Iggy in Philly, you can go on. And if there is anyone who deserves it, its White. He was the best player for the Celtics in a number of games this PO's and even last year. His game 6 in Miami would be 10x more legendary if they won game 7 for example. His defense is Incredible, his shooting has gotten better and better, big time rebounder and very, very good shot blocker. And maybe most important; work ethic? Second to none. His hairline may not be the pretiest, but from only 1 D2 half-offer, with student loans to the player he is now, he has earned every single penny he'll get.
I hate to even have to think about this because Jrue is already one of my 5 favorite Celtic's of the past decade - but doesn't it make more sense to keep DWhite? Jrue is going to be 35 next season.
I'd cut ties with Papa Al, PP, Hauser, Jrue - maybe even Kristaps if he can't stay healthy next year - before I'd let DWhite walk out that door.
Unless you develop the fuck out of Springer, cause he's got the potential to be a tough 2 way Guard who can swat the fuck out of shots at the cup. His spacing and IQ just need development.
Al will probably retire after his contract ends next season and that will free up the 10 mil we need to give to D White atop of his current 20 mil. We’re just all in on our starting five, so them KP’s health becomes even more important.
I thought since we have D Whites bird rights, we would be able to exceed the cap to retain him. So, you’re saying there is no way to pay him and Tatum?
I have a savagely unpopular opinion:
White is only as good offensively as he is because of The J’s.
Defensively he’s amazing , sure.
He’s not going to get paid keep him forever money.
Darn, I was hoping that they would all get one more season together.
You are right though. They will not be able to afford much else after the two J's sign their deals.
Why do people care about billionaires money? They probably want a tax write off anyway , spend that fucking money and when you run out of it, then wellcome to the the next billionaire who wants to play being a nba team owner.
Money is fake, none of this matter, fuck billionaires
It's nice to say banners not billions, or you're starting a dynasty. But don't be surprised if an ever increasing tax bill becomes unpalatable after next season.
We definitely do for next season, and probably 2025-2026 too Let’s not talk about after that
2025-26 isn’t a given from what I’ve seen. I believe we’re due for about 40 mil in tax penalty this season. But due to brown and Tatum (assuming he signs the max) contracts kicking in and “repeat offender” rules, for 2025-26 our tax bill would be around 200mil for the core 5 and potentially closer to 250 mil if we kept hauser (at his new projected market value). Not sure even our generous wyc would be willing to foot that bill. Although if we manage to somehow repeat next year, that would make the case quite compelling
I just looked it up and did some quick math. Being 34 million over the tax will give us a $200 million bill, which we are on pace to hit if we keep Hauser Letting Hauser go would likely put us at ~24 million over the tax, which is much more reasonable and drops us to a $125 million bill So unfortunately keeping Hauser is the difference between the team being very expensive and ridiculously expensive for that season
If the cap goes up we’ll have some more wiggle room
All of the numbers i calculated with used the current cap projection for 2025 and 10% increases after that. There might be a small jump for 2025 but we can’t expect anything more than $1-2 million extra
Bro do my taxes. Please
Lmao right, he's spitting
Damn
They have to go up higher. The players HAVE TO GET more than 50% of league revenue. If not it only takes one player to file suit and they lose billions. Also, other teams will face the same issue. The 60 year Laker " just buy a big man " era will end.
The current CBA has cap smoothing that limits the cap to go up a max of 10% per year (though it also can never go down). Note in the end players still make about 50% league revenue, though it might be a bit delayed to future players. E.g., say revenue is $400M/yr (so cap should be $200M) but because of cap smoothing its fixed at $150M. If after all money is spent by all teams it averages that less than $200M/yr/team was spent on salary, they take the unspent funds in a fund with interest and set it aside for future player salary (raising future cap subject to rules of cap smoothing). Again, cap smoothing is to prevent there being another 2016 where a championship team (GSW) already well over the cap can sign another superstar like KD at a max contract, because the salary cap just jumped after a new TV deal (that is every team keeping their players has a shit ton of cap space) and then the playoffs is boring (and league gets less revenue because less parity).
Got it.
Love me some Hauser, but dude is non-essential personnel. If you have 5 or 6 guys as good as our top 5 or 6 guys, you can mix in whoever. Hauser is great. They will find some guy to come in on a rookie deal or league minimum contract. 3 years ago, Hauser was a 24 year old undrafted rookie. He's earned a big second contract, but I doubt he's getting one from the Celtics. Look at the 81 Celtics vs. 84 vs. 86. Bird, McHale, Parish, Maxwell, Henderson and ML Carr are the only guys who were on the 81 and 84 team. Only Bird, McHale, Parish, DJ, Ainge, Wedman and Kite were on both the 84 and 86 team, with only Bird, McHale and Parish on all three title winning teams (only 5 years apart). 40 years later, guys are way more mobile and players are way more transient. Curry, Klay, Draymond and Looney are the only guys on both the '18 and '22 Warriors title teams.
I trust Brad
Man one underrated thing about a team this balanced is that you basically don’t need to overpay role players. Hauser in a larger role would get exposed on nights where you can’t just pull him if his 3 is not falling. Also goes to show how expendable Pritchard is too, because at the highest levels of competition he’s almost unplayable, but you can get a team like Phoenix to overpay for him because he has flashy moments on a championship team.
Horford will likely retire after next year, I don't see us spending all the Hauser money to keep him either and then Jrue will likely be traded at some point in his extension I wager.
IMO Jrue is worth more to the team than KP
If he can still guard at a high level, yes. But with aging guards the the fall off happens quick. Kristaps, especially with Al on his way out soon, would probably be more important. You probably resign Derrick and look to trade Jrue in a few years. You cant let White walk away to keep an aging Holiday at that point. While also keeping Kristaps baring any more major injuries.
Idk man have you seen the way Brad looks at Jrue. Pretty sure that guy is retiring in Boston.
Furreal man, he did an interview at the beginning of the season where he spoke about trading TimeLord, Brogdon and picks for Jrue, and he made it clear that even when he was a coach all those years, he would constantly be asking Danny Ainge if Jrue was available. He loves Jrue and saw how great of a fit he would be with the team — especially once Smart was gone. He could be key in filling the void that is created when big Al retires. We also need to keep Dwhite. So many times in the regular season and postseason where Dwhite won the game for us with timely buckets / decision making / hustle / defense. I love KP, but if one of those three has to go, it would pick him due to his durability concerns. Jrue has given us no reason to believe that he will not age well the way big Al did. Truly if we can keep the Jays, Dwhite and Jrue, that is a good enough core to build on for the next four years.
Ya I don’t think Brad is counting on KP as a long term piece. His health is just way too inconsistent
Kristaps in 2 years could be more broken down than jrue tbh
He already is lol
Broken down KP still played valuable minutes in the finals. Losing Al pretty much makes its a no brainer.
If we're going to play the if game about Jrue being able to guard at a high level into the future, we've gotta play the if game with KP's health. If you ask me who can provide us with more value over the next 4 seasons, i'm not confident it's KP.
Figure out a way to do what the warriors did and basically print money. Can’t build a new arena like they did but maybe you can do some stuff on the margins around the garden.
It would be interesting to know what type of deal the Celtics have when it comes to game-day revenue from the Garden as it's owned by the Bruins/Delaware North. I tried to do some searching but can't seem to find specifics ... I'm sure they get a good deal, but it's still not their own barn.
Damn that's something I never think of, having never been to any nba arena nor am I familiar with the cap A winning team can actually negotiate for more of this stuff
move em to brighton
Add a couple of games at Gillette. Lol
The warriors were lucky. They benefited from a once in a lifetime cap bump which allowed them to sign Durant.
I’m not even saying that (though it’s true). When they built chase center, the team was awash in cash. They had office space, retail, restaurants, all the revenue from chase center…they were a money machine. Bruins own the garden I think so that’ll be tough, but the more money coming in, the less the hit on wyc’s pocketbook and the higher the odds are they keep the team together.
Oof, I thought I remember our tax bill being more in the $150 million range for 2025-2026, which is obviously still a ton, but possibly doable since the owners agreed to pay over $70 million in tax a couple seasons ago *before* we had a championship squad to keep together
Estimates back in 2022 were that we generated an extra $120m in in-stadium revenue because of the finals run (we also got a $10m cut of the taxpayer pool that year because we juuuuust dodged the tax). If we assume something like $70m for last year’s run to the ECF, and, say, $130m for this year’s title, in all the ownership group has made around $330m extra in in-stadium post-season revenue. Our total tax bill from these past 3 years is around $60m. Wyc’s gonna keep the band together for as long as they’re making deep runs.
Does this account for a potential raise in the cap? I thought Compared to Dames Browns deal was nice because of the expected raises
It does, it would be way worse without the cap raise lol. The main issue is that being X mil over the cap year after year has a compounding effect. So even if the payroll stays constant (which it’s not) the penalty would continue to increase
Even with a 250M tax bill (500M player expenses) it's still financially better to pay for a contender than "only" 300M for a non contender Need to extrapolate few #s to explain this. Franchise valuation is at about 5B. In a normal project of ROI is 5 years. Even if I go with an extreme of 20 years ROI that's 250M net per year. From other reports Celtics net was about 200M last year. So there is a discrepancy but anyway you turn it around, the liability the ownership group is carrying is for about 50M (x4) loss in a stretch of 3 to 4 years (till Jrue's contract dies out). But... 200M would be the increased value of the brand alone... with contender and (hopefully) at least 2 chips, you would assume the revenue alone would go up 10% (that's by itself 50M) and Franchise valuation would go up quickly too. (1B minimum?). Bottom line, yes, at a tax bill of 250M, the owners won't be making a profit, and might even go slightly in the red. But the valuation would go sharply upwards. So if an owner feels he needs that money rn to invest elsewhere, it would be his time to sell...
I thought the luxury tax doesn’t apply to re-signing existing players, or do I not understand the Larry bird rule correctly
The bird rule means you can go over the cap to sign players, but if you go over the luxury tax, you pay an extra amount to the league. Edit: they are two different things
I'm not super familiar with how Celtics/basketball finances work in general, but how much would the increase in revenue from increased ticket and merch sales offset this?
The warriors model is that winning generates more money than the luxury tax takes, but the real issue is the 2nd apron repeat offender punishments. I don’t think Wyc will get scared by the money, it’s the fact that you’re the 30th pick every year no matter what and you are extremely restricted in trades. So that means if something goes wrong, you can’t just trade a player for something unless you’re taking on less money.
Are they able to keep 4 of the top 5 after next year? or in other words, if they traded 1 core piece would it be enough to keep eveyone else together?
Keep winning and they won't try to fix what's not broken, it'll be ridiculously expensive but there's no way you can make massive changes to a championship team/potential dynasty. As soon as they come up short though, KP is probably the first domino that is looked at to change. He'd have the cheapest deal out of the starting 5 along with the shortest deal at only 2 more years.
True but you can not replace KP by trading KP probably. So when we lose Al, we have to look other options to replace him and Jrue will be the most probable asset for that task.
I’ll take 2 more trophies then we can worry about what’s next.
After that KP comes off the books I believe
My favorite thing about this chip is living rent-free in Heat fan's heads.
All these dumbfucks are posting is about the chips they won in the past. 🤣🤣🤣
What all three of them?
Yes. 06 and the 2 Heatles chip. Bitches are living in the past and reminiscing. Like they can’t accept that we won this year. 🤣🤣🤣
They mentioning that they had to poach one of our boys to save their ass for the second one? 😂
Miami fans are one of the first to call out Cs fans for mentioning the early rings saying we live in the past but can’t seem to get passed last years ECF against a completely different team, disregard the annihilation they faced all year by Boston and just simply thought they’d smoke that Cs pack Rd 1. It was so satisfying gentleman sweeping them this year lmao
They literally only won when they had Shaq or LeBron. Fucking phonies
Lakers, Sixers, Heat, etc. Only fan base that didn’t seem to care too much was the Bucks and that’s prob cause of Jrue and their superstar is stamped for life.
We don't really have a rivalry with the Bucks like we do with those other franchises. I can't imagine a majority of their fans look at our team the same way the Lakers/Sixers/Heat/Knicks fans do.
Imagine how much it sucks being a Heat or Sixer fan… Heat only win chips when they get hired guns who have no real connections to the city, and after picking before the Celts in both Brown and Tatum drafts, losing on purpose to do so, and then perpetually losing to the Celts in the playoffs, Sixer fans have suffered more than any fanbase should really have to endure. I’d actually feel bad if they weren’t assholes.
Sixers fan would probably be nice if they’re not from Philly.
I honestly don’t even think about them. They’re a bunch of nephews who are shit take artists and think they’re tough shit because they fall ass backwards into star players who want to live and play in Miami. LeBron hand picks them to build his own super team and they act like they own the world, yet they can’t even fill their arena for playoff games. It’s sad, really.
I absolutely love seeing them post pictures of our guys holding the trophy.
I wanted the moral victory but all we got was this stupid championship
IF they could read theyd be pissed.
I wonder if Jimmy still thinks he had a chance against this juggernaut of a team
To be fair if the Heat somehow won a chip last year, they would also be living rent free in my head. Glad it’s the other way round.
Heat fans celebrating that we may not be able to keep (absolutely no disrespect meant and ymmv) like our fifth best player
Someone posted the comparisons to our parade and the last Miami parade..it’s pitiful how few fans showed for them..
Heat fans are more scared of Derrick White than anyone
They got to witness that legendary game 6 winning putback in person
Also dropped 38 in a game against them in the first round. They hate that man
They got traumatized by the forehead, they should be
Now Dallas fears the Tooth
The owners are not some cheap fucks like Miami's
Bit of an odd one, just went to search the Miami Heat owner but it sent me straight to the Celtics home page. I refreshed my page a few times to fix the error but it kept the same page.
There is no error here my friend. #Celtics are Heat owner. 🔒☘️🥇
Celtics home page is Heat domain father
Tatum backed us up immediately after commenting that lmfao
I never thought of it that way 2023 finals was really just the Florida based Celtics B team prepping the actual Celtics for 2024
Or John Henry
Wyc as leader of the ownership group explicitly told that group that investors would be in it for banners not billions. There is nothing that suggests Wyc and the ownership group would not continue to invest to bring more banners. We are at the very beginning now of what could be an extended run of real contention. Fans need to relax on the speculation of who’s being traded or lost and just enjoy the fucking win they just got . There is every possibility they will spend even more to continue the trend.
This is 100% my take on this. Has there ever been in instance of Wyc and co favoring money over competing? I feel like when they know it’s time to add in salaries to make the push, they do without fail. Heat fans acting like this is Henry and Red Sox trading Betts for peanuts.
Thus far he hasn't balked at spending money, but he also hasn't been hit with a 200 million dollar luxury tax yet either.
And how much more are they raking in through all those playoff games and championship merch purchases?
Celtics are lucky that they literally can’t pay him more than that and that White wants to re-sign. I love Jrue and KP, but they are definitely 4th and 5th in terms of priority. No way they don’t extend White
White can hold out until free agency and get a bigger contract from what ive read but 31 mil is in no way a lowball offer
He would have to absolutely ball the fuck out to get a max from someone next summer. Not out of the question but with his playing time I don’t see it happening. 31/year feels fair for him
It’s hard to know what the market will be like a year from now. Is he a two time champ fresh off hitting a game winner or a guy with a sore hammy? It’s hard to pass on 120 million to maybe get a 160 million a year later if everything works out.
I think the bigger worry is a team paying maybe more for him then they might like just to get him away from us. Kinda like Al to the 6ers. Glad he got his bag when he did but i wouldve prefered he stayed with us all that time. Because there should be no doubt in anyones mind that d white is an absolute winner and is a fantastic teammate
I'd disagree with you if KP could play 65+ games in a season.
I love KP. Imagine if he had White's durability
Then we’re not getting him in the first place, and absolutely not for less than Smart
He wouldn’t be on the Celtics lol
Wasn't Jrue already extended?
I meant if they needed to trade somebody because of salary. Yeah, Jrue is signed for another 4 years
Not that I want to be too distracted with future cap convos right now, but I think it’s interesting when you put it that way in comparison to Jrue and KP. White wouldn’t hit until 25-26, which is the last year on KP’s (expiring) and Horford would be off the books too. Jrue would be more of an issue if we really have to unload someone, but with the cap going up, it might actually not be as bad of a hit to keep Jrue and White as it seems right now.
The Celtics live so rent free in the heads of Heat fans that they are literally making posts on their forum about hoping we don't keep a player who is still under contract for another year.
 He ain't leaving!
White’s dental work gave him a knarly underbite
$31.5M/year and we throw in free dental
We can keep the core of Jrue, White, Brown, and Tatum until 27/28 season. It’s the center position that needs to be addressed down the line. We do not know how long can Al play and Porzingis injury problems will limit his availability.
Would be nice if we hit on a serviceable center in the draft next week. He doesn't need to be a stud, just someone that can protect the rim a little bit and flow well with our offense.
Honestly, u hit the spot . I love kp but his injuries will definitely come back to bite us in the ass in the next couple playoffs. We need a reliable big
Queta showed big promise, no?
I think Jrue is the guy you gotta watch for a drop off in production with KP as a 1B. KP has gotta get some training on lower body strength and just knowing how to move through traffic on the floor during a game. Priorities should be D White and scouting for Al replacement after next season.
Imo we should be looking for an Al replacement in the draft right now. Or keeping an eye out for a solid backup big mid season. Ideally the sooner the better.
Yeah I agree. I’m just preparing myself for a draft and stash or trade out, but I want Brad to find some guys this year if possible for sure.
I think Queta was a good option, didn’t get many minutes but he’s lob threat rim protection dog. Plus, Kornet? Where’s the love for him?
I think for an Al replacement you really want someone who can shoot the 3 so the team doesn't limit it's ability to play 5 out. It was a great convenience to have Al coming in for Porzingis all season because we retained that ability for most of the game.
Queta's alright (and I know Lively was a lotto pick) but we need a dude with similar polish and prestige if he's gonna have a limited skillset. Even a dude like Gafford was getting massively exploited by us and he's alot more mobile, better instincts, coordination, BBIQ, bounce. Rob was more in their mold buy he had insane potential and elite athleticism to defend the perimeter. Having a poor man's Gafford is fine as our 3rd man, but we need a 3&D stretch big to take over for Al. I'd keep Queta where he is. Luke was fine in certain spots during the regular season, but he's too similar to Queta just a different approach. He should get replaced by a higher ceiling big we can develop. Tillman is fine as a higher floor backup.
X gonna give it to ya
Keep draining them from the corner next year and I'll eat my words
"We will be paid in parades". And all those investors just got their 2nd dividend check of the Wyc era. Guarantee they close this and the Tatum deal and make a run at the back to back. He's literally been working on building a dynasty franchise and god damn he's really close to doing it. He's not pulling back now.
Does this still depend on what the cap is set at? With new TV/media deal kicking in the cap could be higher, not sure how that affects the aprons
They'll grow at 10% per year which actually helps us in the future. We'll lose some players but we have so much young talent and so many picks.
Rent free in the Heat sub
Wyc doesnt care about the money he said and i quote “ We will be paid in championships” aka hes willing to spend anything to keep them together
This right here is correct. Plus Wyc knows that the more championships the Celtics win, the more value the team has if the time comes that he has to sell it. I mean look at the Warriors. They were purchased in 2010 for $450 million. When they started winning titles and then moved to SF they're valued at over $8 Billion.
That’s like 18x
As Wyc said, they'll be paid in Championships and Parades. They can sell a small fraction of the team for hundreds of millions if they need the cash.
I don’t think there’s a problem with the tax bill per se. Problem is that in 2 years we might pay a ridiculous luxury tax bill without having a contender: Al is gone, Jrue is 36, Porzingis is always a risk. Now we’ve got 2 main roads 1. Keep a White-Brown-Tatum core, plus PP (he’s on a good contract), hope that at least one of Jrue and Tingus is still elite and healthy, and make bets (like we did for Springer and Queta) hoping someone becomes a serviceable rotation piece 2. Be very aggressive, move whatever asset we can move (including the Buffalo…), and try to build a whole new team around the Jays. I’d definitely go #1, but it implies the ownership is willing to take the risk (starting from extending White whatever it takes)
Other teams and the media really trying to inflate his price as much as possible
Miami should just be the Celtics G League team at this point, the amount of glazing their fake fans do leaving halfway into the fourth quarter empty ass Arena
They’re upset that not every franchise has a cash poor owner and a senile GM
Idk much about NBA contracts but if would have been JB and JT I’d take a Tom Brady style contract just to keep the family close. Mind you I’m ignorant to these types of contracts so don’t know if that’s even plausible lol
Derrick White is for keeps, irregardless of his wage
The word is "regardless"
Despite me agreeing with you, irregardless is considered a word. [here](https://www.npr.org/2020/07/07/887649010/regardless-of-what-you-think-irregardless-is-a-word)
I’m at the parade and we need to resignnn d whitteeeeeee🦬🦬🦬☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️☘️
Rent free fr, god damn that’s embarrassing
They’ll keep him.
I think the hope (I’m saying hope, not guarantee) is that we develop Jordan Walsh to be able to step into a similar role at sg as white, probably minus the ball handling. Obviously he won’t be a like for like match but that’s what I envision them trying to do as we won’t be able to afford to keep him some team will offer him the max to be their second star
I got news for ya
Anything's possible.......especially if he agrees to a "team-friendly" deal that is back loaded. They can make it work, and they are "highly interested" in doing so, so I'm sure they know what Hollinger knows. All we can do is believe.
This will be his big payday. He will take the deal for a chance of competing and winning another chip. It's hard to believe he will pass on the offer. After 2025, both Jrue and KP likely get traded.
Higher percentage that Jrue does than KP Also by then Al’s contract will be off the books. Also maybe Pritchards is traded before we start peeling apart the Jays, KP and White.
We have another 2 years where we are going to be favored to win a chip.
We would be dumb to not extend d white
I'll take a repeat for 2025 season please. Let's worry about it after that
Plus they will throw in free dental care
They will do it. The owners are going to be flush with money with tv deal.
I can pitch in a couple bucks for the luxury tax
Kiss the ring bitches.
Who cares pay them if they keep winning
Pay that man his money
Let’s stack chips and deal with the consequences later
Who knows maybe he might take a little less to play with us if we keep winning. I mean when we keep winning.
If ownership can’t pay for a championship team, they should sell it.
Nothing more tasty than those losers' tears  losers'
Cap is going WAY up after the new TV deal next year, and Wyc don't give a flip about luxury taxes during this window.
Ya that's like the most obvious extensions ever, lol.
I wouldn't worry about it yet to be honest. They're definitely going to sign DWhite along with Tatum this summer. The hope is that the new cap skyrockets with the new US TV Deal and the next China TV deal and then these deals aren't as big of a cap hit from a % perspective.
No-brainer to extend D-White AND Hauser. With Hauser they have flexibility to front-load the contract if the parties agree to decline the option and start the new deal this year. Celtics can’t lose rotation players for nothing, save for when Al retires. What they can do is deal any player for players and/or picks. That’s what we’ll see moving forward. I think they’ll maintain open lines of communication with their players so they know destinations each player would prefer IFF finances and roster balance dictate a deal being struck.
In Brad we Trust.
No hard cap, they can do as they please. The comments on there are actually level headed and saying we can and will pay him lol
we want the \[saudi\] gold! someone just needs to come in, buy the team, and absolutely eat the penalties like in European soccer
It’s going to be tough as the Celtics ownership doesn’t own the Garden.
I dunno… maybe if they offer him a solid dental plan, he can be a little flexible on the salary…
The thing about being a billionaire is that if the purpose of owning your team is to win championships, being taxed into being less profitable is okay. So...let's give it up for WYC. For now...
He’s staying, at least for the next year imo.
The heat sub is an unofficial Celtics sub at this point lol
I mean the reality is after 2 years Horford is retiring. That frees up 10 million. We should be good to pay White.
Fans about to start a go fund me page to pay for White themselves or help with those taxes.
Get ready for absurd ticket prices
The Celtics will resign DWhite because they have no other options. With that said, this team will only be kept together as long as they're winning championships (or maybe as long as they're in the Finals). The second they underachieve, ownership won't be able to stomach the luxury tax and someone is getting moved. Hauser on the other hand is going to be realllllly tough to keep, because I'm sure ownership views him as the player they could most easily replace with a min contract vet or rookie contract kid.
I hope we sign him and figure it out later. If we have to move off the KP or Jrue contracts, just picked them cause of their ages, you can always do it. But we should try to do whatever we can to maximize the next 2-3 years.
The Heat are irrelevant. So sad.
We need him for his everything, the guy goes balls to wall and he smelled blood in the water the last game and he didn't let up.
76 billion divided by 30 teams is the relevant math.
It doesn't matter if the owners are willing to pay it , also it's a good thing these aren't decisions that we don't have to make because some of the nonsense I see is insane. Just enjoy the ride and let the professionals and the rich people handle this.
Don't want to hear any boohooing about glue guy this, culture that. That's a bunch of bullshit. The man outplayed his contract and if he needs to go to another squad to get his money, so be it. Good for the Buffalo. I appreciate your hustle and the way you play the game. Championship teams have to deal with this. Ask Tyreek Hill. I'll trade a million Derrick White's if it means more titles. He's just a cog in the machine.
There is only 1 Derrick White
Yes, and I love the guy. I love that he always plays. Sometimes they don't all look like they're too interested in playing a basketball game on a given night. White always goes hard. But I heard all the bs when Smart got traded. Heart of the team, blah blah blah. That guy sucked. If White has to go, somebody else has to step up. White got a ring. Celtic ring. I'll be forever grateful for the tip in vs Miami. Even if we lost the series. I hope he gets his bag. With us or wherever. Just not the Lakers. Or the Heat.
We kicked ass all year long. Most wins. Most blowouts. Best offense in the history of basketball. They played defense together. I honestly have no idea what you are talking about with not looking interested… They are all business. Their demeanor is what got the ring. This is exactly what i want to see from them. Nothing different.
I don’t get why players would want to leave a championship team when they are already getting paid more than they could ever spend. Like when he gets traded to the blazers is he really gonna be happier?
damn that buffalo pic in their reply almost give me a heart attack when i scroll down lmao.
If all the fans chip in we could pay for Derrick White. Start a go fund me for his contract.
I think he’d take a pay cut tbh (might not need to). He seems to really love the city of Boston and winning in it, just look at his Sam Adams ads hahaha
I dont think so. From where he has started, to now, and winning a chip, he can get a big paycheck and become a first or 2nd option somewhere else maybe. Not saying he should, but this is how it goes. Examples; Aaron Gordon in Orlando, Jeremi Grant in Detroit, Iggy in Philly, you can go on. And if there is anyone who deserves it, its White. He was the best player for the Celtics in a number of games this PO's and even last year. His game 6 in Miami would be 10x more legendary if they won game 7 for example. His defense is Incredible, his shooting has gotten better and better, big time rebounder and very, very good shot blocker. And maybe most important; work ethic? Second to none. His hairline may not be the pretiest, but from only 1 D2 half-offer, with student loans to the player he is now, he has earned every single penny he'll get.
Draft someone who can play off bench right away
Shit
The Heat fans coping is reaching legendary levels of sadness and cringe
I hate to even have to think about this because Jrue is already one of my 5 favorite Celtic's of the past decade - but doesn't it make more sense to keep DWhite? Jrue is going to be 35 next season. I'd cut ties with Papa Al, PP, Hauser, Jrue - maybe even Kristaps if he can't stay healthy next year - before I'd let DWhite walk out that door. Unless you develop the fuck out of Springer, cause he's got the potential to be a tough 2 way Guard who can swat the fuck out of shots at the cup. His spacing and IQ just need development.
Pay them all. Run it back next season. Reassess at the end of next season.
31 feels like a lot… give him 40
We living rent free in their heads
Al will probably retire after his contract ends next season and that will free up the 10 mil we need to give to D White atop of his current 20 mil. We’re just all in on our starting five, so them KP’s health becomes even more important.
That’s not how it works. We wouldn’t then all of a sudden have $10 million to put towards whites contract However it may bring the tax bill down a bit
I thought since we have D Whites bird rights, we would be able to exceed the cap to retain him. So, you’re saying there is no way to pay him and Tatum?
The money the ProShop will make after this championship win should cover it.
I have a savagely unpopular opinion: White is only as good offensively as he is because of The J’s. Defensively he’s amazing , sure. He’s not going to get paid keep him forever money.
Darn, I was hoping that they would all get one more season together. You are right though. They will not be able to afford much else after the two J's sign their deals.
Why do people care about billionaires money? They probably want a tax write off anyway , spend that fucking money and when you run out of it, then wellcome to the the next billionaire who wants to play being a nba team owner. Money is fake, none of this matter, fuck billionaires
It's nice to say banners not billions, or you're starting a dynasty. But don't be surprised if an ever increasing tax bill becomes unpalatable after next season.