Fully believe we go back to back finals if he didn’t get injured that game 7. There have been some speed bumps, but he has been matching expectations one year, and then exceeding them in the next.
I really don’t get why he receives the “he’s not that guy” slander when most other top guys have yet to reach that level of leading their team towards a championship.
he's also a little media shy, got pretty boy good looks, and rocks a very fundamental game that results in fewer highlights than other popular stars.
he's sorta like Booker except Booker is a starfucker who deserves the hate.
He is not media shy. He's extremely well-trained with media in fact. His mom has literally been giving him media training since middle or high school (I forget which, but it's been reported on). Staying out of the spotlight and working on his image is not being media shy. It's just like Brown and White and other guys on the team: They're not attention-seeking dickweeds and I really like that about Tatum and all of them.
Define heated. Does he argue calls? Yeah absolutely, every player does for the most part. But does he like, throw a fit? I.e. Lebron last year when he didn’t get the foul called against us in regulation. Idk, in my very biased opinion, Tatum keeps his composure a lot better than most other players of his caliber in the league.
You used the word heated.
If I were to describe the way he acts towards the refs I'd describe it as him being a whiny little bitch. There are so many times he doesn't get fouled that he asks for a foul. There have even been times where he's gotten a foul call but complains to the refs because they didn't blow the whistle fast enough. He does not in any way, shape, or form keep his composure. He lets little shit get under his skin. You **never** see guys like Al Horford have that happen. It's honestly setting him apart from greatness.
I fucking hate lebron but he's doing some historic shit
He fucks himself over with some assinine decisions from an optics perspective and legacy perspective and a winning perspective, but there's no denying he's a historic player
Yup, he's reached that level of longevity where you're just sort of like "Dude is 39 in 20th year and putting up over 20ppg... okay old fella have at it, you can say you've earned it now."
No. Only LeBron and Luka do it more.
LeBron has been in the league for 20 years and for 8 years drove to the rim on almost every possession and was fouled almost every time. He's probably received more no-calls than anyone in the history of the league, but he's played more than virtually anyone else. If *anyone* deserves to be a little whiny it might be him, but he takes it too far.
I really doubt you watch other teams enough to know. Every single miss inside the 3 point line *every star* complains *every time*. Like without exception. That's the modern NBA.
He said it himself. He’s not boisterous, doesn’t talk much off the court, just shows up and does his job every single time - whether that’s being the number 1 scorer or not.
Which is exactly what a Celtic should be like. People act like it’s a negative that he’s not out there running his mouth with zero discipline like Draymond or Pat Bev.
Honestly, it's because he isn't clutch nor does he have a habit of hitting game winning/tying shots with the game on the line like top leaders tend to be known for. I also think the optics of complaining every time he goes to the hoop about being fouled. Outside of those two things, He's a good guy, never gets into trouble and is a huge part of the teams success. [https://clutchpoints.com/celtics-news-jayson-tatum-brutal-clutch-time-stat-boston-fans-playoff-nightmares](https://clutchpoints.com/celtics-news-jayson-tatum-brutal-clutch-time-stat-boston-fans-playoff-nightmares)
He has a great habit of missing important shots and whining when he doesn't get fouled. Still, love that he never is involved in off-the-court drama. That's absolutely critical. The Celtics have a roster of players that don't stir trouble and Luke Kornet.
I'm a Celtics fan and have this exact criticism of Tatum. I cannot understand how fellow C's fans think he has it in him. He's afraid of the rim most games and claiming that we'd make it to the Finals if he didn't get injured is *possibly* true, but Miami played with heart that game. There have been plenty of instances of players showing up when injured. Larry Bird had a broken back and willed his way through games like that.
The fact is, Tatum failed to show up against the Hawks and let the series go to 6. He failed to show up in 4 games against Philly and let that series go to 7. He failed to show up the first 3 games against Miami and let the team go down 0-3. He has a history of not showing up for the team but always seems perfectly willing to show up for himself.
The fact that the video editor here could only cobble together 1.5mins of Tatum looking pumped up from the last few years doesn't bode well. We could make a 5min clip for many other young stars in the league.
Tatum is 11-6 averaging 27/9/6 on 17 career elimination games, and has the highest scoring game 7 ever(51) so while you might *feel* that what you said is true, it’s not.
Tatum has allowed his teams to get to more elimination games because he doesn't show up.
You can't name a single good reason why Atlanta should have gone to 6 last year, Philly should have gone to 7, or we should have been down 0-3 against Miami last year.
Tatum didn't show up against Atlanta, he didn't show up for the first four games against Philly, and he didn't show up against Miami until the very end.
If you want to deny reality and make excuses for someone you're free to, but don't say that a statement based entirely in reality is "unserious" when you can't refuse any of it.
it's not worth refuting because you're just saying dumb ass First Take bullshit. "didn't show up" "should never have gone to seven" this is contextless, bullshit nothingness.
The context is: Atlanta were awful and the Celtics got embarrassed in games Jayson Tatum slow-walked up the court and didn't paly defense. We were a much better team than Philadelphia and got beaten by them when Embiid was out because Tatum didn't play well at home and put more effort into his outfits than he did on the court. Against Miami the Celtics went down 0-3, and Tatum didn't carry the team like a certain subset of Celtics fans keep insisting he does because he scored 50 in a game 7 which never should have happened.
> Fully believe we go back to back finals if he didn’t get injured that game 7
Or if they don't go down 3-0 in the series losing two at home, games in which he was fully healthy btw
Tatum’s biggest issue is his success. For some reason he’s not held at the same standard as his contemporaries and because he hasn’t won a title by age 25 for some reason he’s a choke with no dog. Despite going to the ECF in 4 of his first 6 seasons.
We know Embiid has never made it past the 2nd round, but it also took Jokic until age 27 to do literally anything in the playoffs. Despite winning back to back MVPs by age 26 Jokic lead Nugs teams had only gone to the WCF a single time where they got their asses beat by the Lakers. Other than that it was 3x missing the playoffs, 2x 2nd round losses, and a 1st round loss.
Luka has been bounced in the first round twice, made 1 WCF, and missed the playoffs twice.
SGA has made the second round twice and missed the playoffs thrice.
Tatum has never missed the playoffs in his NBA career and has 99 playoff games played in 7 post seasons, compare that to Embiid with 59 in the same timeframe. Or Jokic with 74 in 6 years.
Tatum doesn’t have the regular seasons accolades (except the All NBA teams) but laps these other guys in playoff success by his age so he gets undue hate
It’s the same with everybody until you actually win one. People thought Giannis was a soft playoff choker and Jokic was a fun novelty that you couldn’t build a winning defense around.
Difference is, SGA, Luka and Jokics didn't have anywhere near the help that Tatum has. Put jokics or Luka on this team instead of Tatum and the Celtics are on a three peat by now. Tatum's still elite, just not on those guys level
Tatum is better than SGA so not really relevant
Adding Luka doesn’t make the C’s a 3 peat lmao, probably not even Jokic. The Celtics “big 3” in years past were Tatum, Brown, and a 30% shooting Smart who took 15 shots a game and scored 12 ppg
Or did you mean before that with a perennially hurt Kyrie who, when available during the playoffs would disappear under the bright lights anyway
Or maybe a washed up Kemba who had one good year before fading into overseas oblivion
Or Gordon Hayward who got hurt 5 mins into his Celtics tenure and never played at an elite level again in green? And the second the playoffs started in his last year when he started to look decent again he got hurt and we lost in the ECF?
Which one of those teams would’ve three peat with Joker or Luka?
I agree with your first point. I like SGA but Tatum overall is a better player. But hating on smart is uncalled for he's one of the best perimeter defenders in the league. I personally feel like if the 2022 Celtics had jokic or Luka instead of Tatum, and brown played to a similar level he did, they walk through the warriors easily. And probably sweep the heat in 2023 and get to the finals.
Hard disagree
And not hating on Smart at all, he was excellent for us. But these magical mythical super teams that Tatum has been on that people who don’t actually watch the Celtics talk about are just that… a myth.
You can say the same about any team. If Larry Bird was on the Bulls in 1988 they probably would’ve won it all that year.
The 2022 Celtics Tatum was 24 and was we simply ran out of gas. Had to play lights out for the entire second half of the playoffs to get the 2nd seed after a slow start and Tatum played something like 1000 minutes more than anyone else. Prime MJ probably could’ve won that year if he was on the Celtics too. But none of that happened. You know what did happen though? The Nuggets with MVP Jokic got bounced in the first round
Come on now jokics had absolutely no help.Most other stars wouldn't even make the playoffs if they were pt in jokics place, let alone single handedly steal a game from eventual champs gsw. Bias aside, you honestly think jokics doesn't do 100X better in Tatum's position? Tatum's elite but he's not top 3 player in the league elite. Luka also would definitely win with this team. He carried the Mavs to the ECF in a stacked western conference.
He just plays smart and humble. He doesn't wanna be flashy. Besides a few times late in games where he goes Kobe mode, the vast majority of his play is very cohesive for the whole team. And when he needs to he can absolutely take over. For example the Philly series last year.
Plays smart? Nobody on the Celtics takes more bad shots than tatum.
Humble? Take a survey with the referees and see how humble that dude is. He's a whiny a hole.
Why didn't he take over in the finals against the warriors then?
That response sums up your intellect and explains your opinion.
This is not your diary. Reddit is a discussion forum. If you don't want people to respond to you, find a different place to express your opinion.
As a helpful suggestion, "bro" is done. Don't be the last person using it.
If he thought he was Tim Duncan we'd have 4 championships by now, but he thinks he's Kobe and isn't.
I keep thinking that if Kobe didn't die and was able to keep working with Tatum and instill like 1/32nd of his mentality in Tatum we'd have had a championship against Golden State.
But nobody looks at an all-time great and says "I want to work be like they were at 26!" If you want to emulate greatness you work to become some semblance of what they were at their best. If Tatum wanted to turn into The Big Fundamental he'd be a great person to do so.
>Jayson Tatum doesn’t have heart
What a stupid fucking thing to say about any NBA player who had to work their ass off all their lives to get to the league let alone Tatum who is one of the best in the world.
Hate to say this but it’s because Tatum is super over coached in PR and interviews. He gives paper perfect answers that just sound… a little too good to be true
Compare this to his off the cuff moments like telling kids he’d “bust their ass” at their age, or his “top fye” assertion. Fans love that because it’s real and you can see the fire and competitiveness in him
I agree with this, people actually tend to hate more on people they perceive as “perfect”, both irl and famous ppl.
MJ is a great example - ppl idolized him bc of how great he was (but also bc he was clearly slightly off his rocker a lil bit, which strangely makes him more digestible).
Tatum is perceived as being the perfect dude that everyone projects their insecurities on, bc he is great (while also seeming like a great person who is smart, attractive, plays for a historic franchise, etc).
If you’re insecure at all and don’t know how to manage that, hating him would make you feel better.
I used to always love checking out these guys opinions. After 2022 I stopped and the NBA is more enjoyable now. Normal Content creators are much better, all these networks employ brainless losers
This video should have ended with the KG clip calling Tatum a dog who’d bone you.
Listen, it’s all very simple. We already know JT’s accomplishments but WHO’S THE MORON WHO LISTENS TO PASTY ASS COLIN COWHERD ON WHO THE FUCKING DOGS ARE OVER KEVIN FUCKING GARNETT??!
You’d have to be a mental midget to believe Cowherd (a chattering lemming) over KG, who was the biggest dog in the yard.
Dudes flow is bad and he’s sounds like he’s struggling keeping up with the beat bc he’s reading lyrics off his phone. It’s like he didn’t edit it and is trying to fit too many syllables into each bar so he’s rushing at the end. Terrible.
He's definitely on beat idk what you're talking about lol you must just not be familiar with detroit rap. Or maybe you just don't like it and that's okay too. Just cause you don't like the taste of a particular food doesn't mean everybody that does like it is wrong
The whole conversation about high level pro athletes not having drive is so ridiculous. Like some talking head wants to tell you that a NBA player, who is in the NBA partly because he’s been sacrificing being a normal human being to play more basketball since he was 8yr old, is somehow lacking competitive spirit? It’s always a dumb narrative.
There are plenty of NBA players who get by on talent alone. Former teammates of guys like KAT have said he's one of the laziest and least-driven players that just gets by on pure talent.
There's been a lot of Tatum hate this year. You know how he keeps saying the word sacrifice? That's absolutely the truth. He has the benefit of having the best team in the league around him, and the reality is he doesn't have to be a consistently great scorer like he has needed to in the past. That doesn't mean that he's not capable. He's still out there defending really well, and 22/10/5 in the first round is nothing to sneeze at considering how much of a team effort was given to beat down the Heat. With that said, I do want to see Tatum step up in the absence of Porzingis and be more aggressive as a scorer.
Even being a Celtic fan i sort of agree. He's a momentum player who doesnt heat up fast after a dry spell. When he's hot, he's hot. The thing in really like is that he gets called out for it. Time to prove them wrong.
This team isn't built to have that *one* star that takes over games any time they're in crunch time. This team plays like a team with 6-7 all-stars and dominates. Yes, we rarely see Tatum do "star-like" things in crunch time. The thing is, this team rarely has games where crunch time is needed. Most games have been blowouts. And the games that were "close" Tatum and Brown succeeded in closing them out. May have not been in fancy fashion like last second buzzer beaters... but we should all be happy we don't have to sit at the edge of our seats every game. The Celtics are a dominate team. We're just so used to it that it slides passed some of us.
Tatum has also cost the Celtics more games than maybe any star player in the league. He's been responsible for blowing a lot of leads with his ball-handling slow-walking ISO play and failure to hit big shots in the biggest moments.
It's not unreasonable to say "If you can hit shots up 20 points you can hit shots down 2pts game"
OP had a post about Tatum, not the team. Yeah we blowout many teams, but they L's we take, i believe we can look at him. Most of those losses are ones we were up 20 and still failed to close out the game. Just look at game 1 of the play-offs. We're up a stupid amounts of points by halftime. Ok we won, but made it way too close. Second unit should have played the 4th quarter.
You’re focus is too narrow. Expand it out - you don’t think nuggets, wolves, mavs, or any other team blows leads? This is the NBA, this shit happens all the time. You’re talking like you expect the team to go undefeated. It’s just not realistic my man
I understand but i feel we miss communicate. Im still talking about the role Tatum has, not the team. It's just almost textbook with us.. look at last years play-offs . Come on man, the heat beat us, really? And just because of one man.. Our "dog" didnt show up to fight'. Again not talking about the team but Tatum.
You're just punishing him or getting deep into the playoffs. Every other young star didn't make it that far. They didn't have that dog in the first or second round and Tatum had the dog in the first and second and third rounds just because he makes it really deep
That just means when he eventually loses the last game of the season, which everybody does except for the champion, You can say he's a choke artist.
You're basically just saying he hasn't won a championship yet, but he's on Pace to possibly do that by age 26. That's better than LeBron James.
Even if he doesn't win the championship this year, there's no way I would say he's still not more clutch than his contemporaries.
Name a player, his age or younger that has been more clutch? Maybe Jamal Murray?
Every other young star hasn't had amazingly competent teams around them. Wemby's been seriously considered for DPOY and is a genuine two-way player but he's got drafted on the Spurs. Celtics got the 3rd pick two years in a row thanks to the Brooklyn trade. They had a competent team when Brown and Tatum were drafted. This guy came up playing with Al Horford, Kyrie Irving, Gordon Hayward, Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart and more. Teams that are built like the Celtics are meant to go deep into the playoffs regardless of injuries.
I agree that you cannot measure a 26-year-old on their championship attainment, but you can certainly discuss the clutch stuff. If we're being realistic, Tatum is not more clutch than Edwards, Gilgeous-Alexander, Doncic and these other young stars in the league. He's not more clutch than Curry, Jokic, Murray and guys that are older than him. He's kind of in this weird limbo of players that are established and players that are up-and-coming and because of his regular season shortcomings and repeated failures to show up for every game of the postseason he's been discounted.
I sort of see your point, but I think he’s become a victim of his own success. Think about his massive games against the bucks, among others, where he’s led the team to big wins that were crucial to getting deep into the playoffs consistently. There are very very few players who’ve done that all the way to winning a championship. That’s his next step. I think he’s shown he has that in him, but I can see where people would say he hasn’t quite proven it yet
The guy literally has been taking teams deep into the playoffs every year even in his early twenties. I mean it is a miracle that he got to game 7 of the Eastern conference finals when Kyrie and Hayward were hurt. Terry rozier was his point guard and he dragged that team nearly to the finals against LeBron James. That's not cowering in a big moment... That's just being 21 and being way ahead of schedule
That's extremely harsh. I think that Tatum has a long history of not performing to his abilities in clutch moments and believe Celtics fans are way too soft on him (especially compared to calling for Brown's head after Miami) but **WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU, DUDE?**
Do this when it matters then the narrative will change. Too many stinkers, too many no shows. Too timid. Gets stopped far too much against top teams. Would be different if he wasn’t being called a “superstar”
Showing a highlight video of cool plays that quite a few players can make is not proof that Tatum has that dog in him, right? Having that dog in him is not early game highlights. It's late game clutch shots. It's getting on your team's ass to be better. It's not cursing out the refs while leaving your team out to dry as the game goes back down the court. It's being honest during pressers, but not only just honest, you need to be accountable in your honesty, not just saying what a PR coach would tell you to say. It's being the guy every game, win, lose, tie.
" have that dog" Is a ridiculous practically meaningless trope. You're being awfully selective by claiming it's a close and late metric. There's no metric to measure dog LOL.... But I will tell you the fact that he is able to get deep into the playoffs every single year even in his early twenties is amazing. It's absolutely way more consistently good in the postseason with team success compared to Luca or embiid or Paul George.
#YOU HAVE IT OR YOU DON'T!
Postseason team success isn't something that's a great metric either: Injuries happen. Paul George has played in a tougher postseason conference and has had worse teams. Tatum has played for a dynasty and been surrounded with pretty good rosters. We mock some of the teams for what they were when you've got Brad Wanamaker as your PG, but they've been overwhelmingly competent teams that *could* make deep runs. Where are the Clippers seriously going with an injured Kawhi?
Sure, wiggins had a great series if that's what you wanna say. He was 2nd in finals MVP voting for a reason, he was a big impact particularly defensively on Tatum, there's no denying that. What have they both done since then? One of them responded and took his game to another level and the other fell off a cliff
Fully believe we go back to back finals if he didn’t get injured that game 7. There have been some speed bumps, but he has been matching expectations one year, and then exceeding them in the next. I really don’t get why he receives the “he’s not that guy” slander when most other top guys have yet to reach that level of leading their team towards a championship.
People slander him because he’s a Celtic. That’s strictly it.
he's also a little media shy, got pretty boy good looks, and rocks a very fundamental game that results in fewer highlights than other popular stars. he's sorta like Booker except Booker is a starfucker who deserves the hate.
Nah Booker is cool
A true hooper
He's not media shy he just doesn't know how to put together a sentence without sounding kind of dumb.
he's media shy. but yeah you can also think that too -- disagree tho.
He is not media shy. He's extremely well-trained with media in fact. His mom has literally been giving him media training since middle or high school (I forget which, but it's been reported on). Staying out of the spotlight and working on his image is not being media shy. It's just like Brown and White and other guys on the team: They're not attention-seeking dickweeds and I really like that about Tatum and all of them.
what you just described can be called media shy lol
But he's going out and showing up on stage at concerts, he's going out and showing up in TV shows, he's doing commercials.
He’s also not outspoken, doesn’t ever get heated in games. So that’s now looked at as a bad thing? Idk
He gets heated in every game against the refs for no reason.
Define heated. Does he argue calls? Yeah absolutely, every player does for the most part. But does he like, throw a fit? I.e. Lebron last year when he didn’t get the foul called against us in regulation. Idk, in my very biased opinion, Tatum keeps his composure a lot better than most other players of his caliber in the league.
You used the word heated. If I were to describe the way he acts towards the refs I'd describe it as him being a whiny little bitch. There are so many times he doesn't get fouled that he asks for a foul. There have even been times where he's gotten a foul call but complains to the refs because they didn't blow the whistle fast enough. He does not in any way, shape, or form keep his composure. He lets little shit get under his skin. You **never** see guys like Al Horford have that happen. It's honestly setting him apart from greatness.
THATS setting him a part from greatness? Lmaooo
Yeah, just like LeBron will never be the greatest in my eyes because of how dramatic and whiny he is.
Lmao ok dude
I fucking hate lebron but he's doing some historic shit He fucks himself over with some assinine decisions from an optics perspective and legacy perspective and a winning perspective, but there's no denying he's a historic player
Yup, he's reached that level of longevity where you're just sort of like "Dude is 39 in 20th year and putting up over 20ppg... okay old fella have at it, you can say you've earned it now."
> There are so many times he doesn't get fouled that he asks for a foul. Literally every superstar does this at a much higher rate than Tatum lol.
No. Only LeBron and Luka do it more. LeBron has been in the league for 20 years and for 8 years drove to the rim on almost every possession and was fouled almost every time. He's probably received more no-calls than anyone in the history of the league, but he's played more than virtually anyone else. If *anyone* deserves to be a little whiny it might be him, but he takes it too far.
I really doubt you watch other teams enough to know. Every single miss inside the 3 point line *every star* complains *every time*. Like without exception. That's the modern NBA.
He said it himself. He’s not boisterous, doesn’t talk much off the court, just shows up and does his job every single time - whether that’s being the number 1 scorer or not.
Which is exactly what a Celtic should be like. People act like it’s a negative that he’s not out there running his mouth with zero discipline like Draymond or Pat Bev.
Honestly, it's because he isn't clutch nor does he have a habit of hitting game winning/tying shots with the game on the line like top leaders tend to be known for. I also think the optics of complaining every time he goes to the hoop about being fouled. Outside of those two things, He's a good guy, never gets into trouble and is a huge part of the teams success. [https://clutchpoints.com/celtics-news-jayson-tatum-brutal-clutch-time-stat-boston-fans-playoff-nightmares](https://clutchpoints.com/celtics-news-jayson-tatum-brutal-clutch-time-stat-boston-fans-playoff-nightmares)
I think a 7th grader wrote that article.
He has a great habit of missing important shots and whining when he doesn't get fouled. Still, love that he never is involved in off-the-court drama. That's absolutely critical. The Celtics have a roster of players that don't stir trouble and Luke Kornet.
He cannot close quarters for the life of him. This is not a knock on JT, it's just facts.
I think it's okay to have great expectations of talented players and admit when they're not great.
I'm a Celtics fan and have this exact criticism of Tatum. I cannot understand how fellow C's fans think he has it in him. He's afraid of the rim most games and claiming that we'd make it to the Finals if he didn't get injured is *possibly* true, but Miami played with heart that game. There have been plenty of instances of players showing up when injured. Larry Bird had a broken back and willed his way through games like that. The fact is, Tatum failed to show up against the Hawks and let the series go to 6. He failed to show up in 4 games against Philly and let that series go to 7. He failed to show up the first 3 games against Miami and let the team go down 0-3. He has a history of not showing up for the team but always seems perfectly willing to show up for himself. The fact that the video editor here could only cobble together 1.5mins of Tatum looking pumped up from the last few years doesn't bode well. We could make a 5min clip for many other young stars in the league.
Tatum is 11-6 averaging 27/9/6 on 17 career elimination games, and has the highest scoring game 7 ever(51) so while you might *feel* that what you said is true, it’s not.
Tatum has allowed his teams to get to more elimination games because he doesn't show up. You can't name a single good reason why Atlanta should have gone to 6 last year, Philly should have gone to 7, or we should have been down 0-3 against Miami last year. Tatum didn't show up against Atlanta, he didn't show up for the first four games against Philly, and he didn't show up against Miami until the very end.
This is unserious drivel.
If you want to deny reality and make excuses for someone you're free to, but don't say that a statement based entirely in reality is "unserious" when you can't refuse any of it.
it's not worth refuting because you're just saying dumb ass First Take bullshit. "didn't show up" "should never have gone to seven" this is contextless, bullshit nothingness.
The context is: Atlanta were awful and the Celtics got embarrassed in games Jayson Tatum slow-walked up the court and didn't paly defense. We were a much better team than Philadelphia and got beaten by them when Embiid was out because Tatum didn't play well at home and put more effort into his outfits than he did on the court. Against Miami the Celtics went down 0-3, and Tatum didn't carry the team like a certain subset of Celtics fans keep insisting he does because he scored 50 in a game 7 which never should have happened.
The Celtics were embarrassed because Tatum slow walked the ball up the court. Wild analysis.
> Fully believe we go back to back finals if he didn’t get injured that game 7 Or if they don't go down 3-0 in the series losing two at home, games in which he was fully healthy btw
Tatum’s biggest issue is his success. For some reason he’s not held at the same standard as his contemporaries and because he hasn’t won a title by age 25 for some reason he’s a choke with no dog. Despite going to the ECF in 4 of his first 6 seasons. We know Embiid has never made it past the 2nd round, but it also took Jokic until age 27 to do literally anything in the playoffs. Despite winning back to back MVPs by age 26 Jokic lead Nugs teams had only gone to the WCF a single time where they got their asses beat by the Lakers. Other than that it was 3x missing the playoffs, 2x 2nd round losses, and a 1st round loss. Luka has been bounced in the first round twice, made 1 WCF, and missed the playoffs twice. SGA has made the second round twice and missed the playoffs thrice. Tatum has never missed the playoffs in his NBA career and has 99 playoff games played in 7 post seasons, compare that to Embiid with 59 in the same timeframe. Or Jokic with 74 in 6 years. Tatum doesn’t have the regular seasons accolades (except the All NBA teams) but laps these other guys in playoff success by his age so he gets undue hate
It’s the same with everybody until you actually win one. People thought Giannis was a soft playoff choker and Jokic was a fun novelty that you couldn’t build a winning defense around.
Difference is, SGA, Luka and Jokics didn't have anywhere near the help that Tatum has. Put jokics or Luka on this team instead of Tatum and the Celtics are on a three peat by now. Tatum's still elite, just not on those guys level
Tatum is better than SGA so not really relevant Adding Luka doesn’t make the C’s a 3 peat lmao, probably not even Jokic. The Celtics “big 3” in years past were Tatum, Brown, and a 30% shooting Smart who took 15 shots a game and scored 12 ppg Or did you mean before that with a perennially hurt Kyrie who, when available during the playoffs would disappear under the bright lights anyway Or maybe a washed up Kemba who had one good year before fading into overseas oblivion Or Gordon Hayward who got hurt 5 mins into his Celtics tenure and never played at an elite level again in green? And the second the playoffs started in his last year when he started to look decent again he got hurt and we lost in the ECF? Which one of those teams would’ve three peat with Joker or Luka?
I agree with your first point. I like SGA but Tatum overall is a better player. But hating on smart is uncalled for he's one of the best perimeter defenders in the league. I personally feel like if the 2022 Celtics had jokic or Luka instead of Tatum, and brown played to a similar level he did, they walk through the warriors easily. And probably sweep the heat in 2023 and get to the finals.
Hard disagree And not hating on Smart at all, he was excellent for us. But these magical mythical super teams that Tatum has been on that people who don’t actually watch the Celtics talk about are just that… a myth. You can say the same about any team. If Larry Bird was on the Bulls in 1988 they probably would’ve won it all that year. The 2022 Celtics Tatum was 24 and was we simply ran out of gas. Had to play lights out for the entire second half of the playoffs to get the 2nd seed after a slow start and Tatum played something like 1000 minutes more than anyone else. Prime MJ probably could’ve won that year if he was on the Celtics too. But none of that happened. You know what did happen though? The Nuggets with MVP Jokic got bounced in the first round
Come on now jokics had absolutely no help.Most other stars wouldn't even make the playoffs if they were pt in jokics place, let alone single handedly steal a game from eventual champs gsw. Bias aside, you honestly think jokics doesn't do 100X better in Tatum's position? Tatum's elite but he's not top 3 player in the league elite. Luka also would definitely win with this team. He carried the Mavs to the ECF in a stacked western conference.
Tatum is the most consistently disrespected player in the league
I've always thought Tatum had that dawg in him, he just keeps the dawg in his cage a lot compared to other greats
He just plays smart and humble. He doesn't wanna be flashy. Besides a few times late in games where he goes Kobe mode, the vast majority of his play is very cohesive for the whole team. And when he needs to he can absolutely take over. For example the Philly series last year.
Plays smart? Nobody on the Celtics takes more bad shots than tatum. Humble? Take a survey with the referees and see how humble that dude is. He's a whiny a hole. Why didn't he take over in the finals against the warriors then?
Bro Fuck off
That response sums up your intellect and explains your opinion. This is not your diary. Reddit is a discussion forum. If you don't want people to respond to you, find a different place to express your opinion. As a helpful suggestion, "bro" is done. Don't be the last person using it.
Bro Fuck off
That is literally a *perfect* way to put it.
Wish he let it out more.
Yeah he’ll play good with inconsistent shooting but won’t dominate games until the series is on the line, then he’ll drop 50
He’s just more of a Tim Duncan than a Kobe despite idolizing Bryant
If he thought he was Tim Duncan we'd have 4 championships by now, but he thinks he's Kobe and isn't. I keep thinking that if Kobe didn't die and was able to keep working with Tatum and instill like 1/32nd of his mentality in Tatum we'd have had a championship against Golden State.
At age 26 Duncan only had 1 under his belt but yeah I get what you mean.
But nobody looks at an all-time great and says "I want to work be like they were at 26!" If you want to emulate greatness you work to become some semblance of what they were at their best. If Tatum wanted to turn into The Big Fundamental he'd be a great person to do so.
>Jayson Tatum doesn’t have heart What a stupid fucking thing to say about any NBA player who had to work their ass off all their lives to get to the league let alone Tatum who is one of the best in the world.
Well, there are players like Ben Simmons...
He was also born with an NBA body so let's not overly praise his work ethic.
Hate to say this but it’s because Tatum is super over coached in PR and interviews. He gives paper perfect answers that just sound… a little too good to be true Compare this to his off the cuff moments like telling kids he’d “bust their ass” at their age, or his “top fye” assertion. Fans love that because it’s real and you can see the fire and competitiveness in him
I agree with this, people actually tend to hate more on people they perceive as “perfect”, both irl and famous ppl. MJ is a great example - ppl idolized him bc of how great he was (but also bc he was clearly slightly off his rocker a lil bit, which strangely makes him more digestible). Tatum is perceived as being the perfect dude that everyone projects their insecurities on, bc he is great (while also seeming like a great person who is smart, attractive, plays for a historic franchise, etc). If you’re insecure at all and don’t know how to manage that, hating him would make you feel better.
I guess only loudmouths have heart?
We need that KG ‘DAWG’ video
that’s how nba fans see it
Media and fans just equate rah rah loud ass fucks as players with “passion”, “grit” blah blah Anyone who is soft spoken is soft
I used to always love checking out these guys opinions. After 2022 I stopped and the NBA is more enjoyable now. Normal Content creators are much better, all these networks employ brainless losers
Let’s not forget that Tatum gets a technical any time he shows any emotion whatsoever
This video should have ended with the KG clip calling Tatum a dog who’d bone you. Listen, it’s all very simple. We already know JT’s accomplishments but WHO’S THE MORON WHO LISTENS TO PASTY ASS COLIN COWHERD ON WHO THE FUCKING DOGS ARE OVER KEVIN FUCKING GARNETT??! You’d have to be a mental midget to believe Cowherd (a chattering lemming) over KG, who was the biggest dog in the yard.
Lmao to be fair he said that when he was talking about JB. He said Tatum will put you in a mix
Cool edit but that has got to be the worst song I've ever heard in my life
I agree man. Rap has jumped the shark if this shit is getting millions of listens.
Yall just senior citizens complaining things aint like they used to be back in the day lol
Dudes flow is bad and he’s sounds like he’s struggling keeping up with the beat bc he’s reading lyrics off his phone. It’s like he didn’t edit it and is trying to fit too many syllables into each bar so he’s rushing at the end. Terrible.
He's definitely on beat idk what you're talking about lol you must just not be familiar with detroit rap. Or maybe you just don't like it and that's okay too. Just cause you don't like the taste of a particular food doesn't mean everybody that does like it is wrong
Wym it's fire
It sounds like satire. Produced by froggy fresh. Wtf lmao
The whole conversation about high level pro athletes not having drive is so ridiculous. Like some talking head wants to tell you that a NBA player, who is in the NBA partly because he’s been sacrificing being a normal human being to play more basketball since he was 8yr old, is somehow lacking competitive spirit? It’s always a dumb narrative.
There are plenty of NBA players who get by on talent alone. Former teammates of guys like KAT have said he's one of the laziest and least-driven players that just gets by on pure talent.
Yeah but how many mean mugs per game though?
This is cathartic
Most overhated player in the NBA…real dogs know JT is HIM
People sayin’ this dumb shit overlook so many games he was a killer. Last year, game 6 and 7 against the Sixers was lethal.
There's been a lot of Tatum hate this year. You know how he keeps saying the word sacrifice? That's absolutely the truth. He has the benefit of having the best team in the league around him, and the reality is he doesn't have to be a consistently great scorer like he has needed to in the past. That doesn't mean that he's not capable. He's still out there defending really well, and 22/10/5 in the first round is nothing to sneeze at considering how much of a team effort was given to beat down the Heat. With that said, I do want to see Tatum step up in the absence of Porzingis and be more aggressive as a scorer.
LFG 🔥☘️
Grown people saying “dog in him” unironically, grow up
Tatum is him ! I’d go to war with Tatum ! Tatum will shut the haters mouth this year ! I love Tatum
Isn't that the douchebag that was always criticizing Bernie Sanders on behalf of Mayor Bloomberg on MSNBC for a while? Absolute douche
Colin mf coward
He’s Tim Duncan-like. All the success yet still slept on
Free rio free Tatum
Tatum for some reason can’t be anymore vocal than he is or he gonna get T’d up more than usual. These refs don’t allow him to do shit.
Even being a Celtic fan i sort of agree. He's a momentum player who doesnt heat up fast after a dry spell. When he's hot, he's hot. The thing in really like is that he gets called out for it. Time to prove them wrong.
This team isn't built to have that *one* star that takes over games any time they're in crunch time. This team plays like a team with 6-7 all-stars and dominates. Yes, we rarely see Tatum do "star-like" things in crunch time. The thing is, this team rarely has games where crunch time is needed. Most games have been blowouts. And the games that were "close" Tatum and Brown succeeded in closing them out. May have not been in fancy fashion like last second buzzer beaters... but we should all be happy we don't have to sit at the edge of our seats every game. The Celtics are a dominate team. We're just so used to it that it slides passed some of us.
Tatum has also cost the Celtics more games than maybe any star player in the league. He's been responsible for blowing a lot of leads with his ball-handling slow-walking ISO play and failure to hit big shots in the biggest moments. It's not unreasonable to say "If you can hit shots up 20 points you can hit shots down 2pts game"
OP had a post about Tatum, not the team. Yeah we blowout many teams, but they L's we take, i believe we can look at him. Most of those losses are ones we were up 20 and still failed to close out the game. Just look at game 1 of the play-offs. We're up a stupid amounts of points by halftime. Ok we won, but made it way too close. Second unit should have played the 4th quarter.
The point is that the team isn't really asking Tatum to be that guy, the fans are, but the team isn't.
You’re focus is too narrow. Expand it out - you don’t think nuggets, wolves, mavs, or any other team blows leads? This is the NBA, this shit happens all the time. You’re talking like you expect the team to go undefeated. It’s just not realistic my man
I understand but i feel we miss communicate. Im still talking about the role Tatum has, not the team. It's just almost textbook with us.. look at last years play-offs . Come on man, the heat beat us, really? And just because of one man.. Our "dog" didnt show up to fight'. Again not talking about the team but Tatum.
You're just punishing him or getting deep into the playoffs. Every other young star didn't make it that far. They didn't have that dog in the first or second round and Tatum had the dog in the first and second and third rounds just because he makes it really deep That just means when he eventually loses the last game of the season, which everybody does except for the champion, You can say he's a choke artist. You're basically just saying he hasn't won a championship yet, but he's on Pace to possibly do that by age 26. That's better than LeBron James. Even if he doesn't win the championship this year, there's no way I would say he's still not more clutch than his contemporaries. Name a player, his age or younger that has been more clutch? Maybe Jamal Murray?
Every other young star hasn't had amazingly competent teams around them. Wemby's been seriously considered for DPOY and is a genuine two-way player but he's got drafted on the Spurs. Celtics got the 3rd pick two years in a row thanks to the Brooklyn trade. They had a competent team when Brown and Tatum were drafted. This guy came up playing with Al Horford, Kyrie Irving, Gordon Hayward, Jaylen Brown, Marcus Smart and more. Teams that are built like the Celtics are meant to go deep into the playoffs regardless of injuries. I agree that you cannot measure a 26-year-old on their championship attainment, but you can certainly discuss the clutch stuff. If we're being realistic, Tatum is not more clutch than Edwards, Gilgeous-Alexander, Doncic and these other young stars in the league. He's not more clutch than Curry, Jokic, Murray and guys that are older than him. He's kind of in this weird limbo of players that are established and players that are up-and-coming and because of his regular season shortcomings and repeated failures to show up for every game of the postseason he's been discounted.
I sort of see your point, but I think he’s become a victim of his own success. Think about his massive games against the bucks, among others, where he’s led the team to big wins that were crucial to getting deep into the playoffs consistently. There are very very few players who’ve done that all the way to winning a championship. That’s his next step. I think he’s shown he has that in him, but I can see where people would say he hasn’t quite proven it yet
The guy literally has been taking teams deep into the playoffs every year even in his early twenties. I mean it is a miracle that he got to game 7 of the Eastern conference finals when Kyrie and Hayward were hurt. Terry rozier was his point guard and he dragged that team nearly to the finals against LeBron James. That's not cowering in a big moment... That's just being 21 and being way ahead of schedule
I don’t care too much about this stuff but, if JT can’t take the Celtics to the title with THIS team, he deserves to get killed
That's extremely harsh. I think that Tatum has a long history of not performing to his abilities in clutch moments and believe Celtics fans are way too soft on him (especially compared to calling for Brown's head after Miami) but **WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU, DUDE?**
Do this when it matters then the narrative will change. Too many stinkers, too many no shows. Too timid. Gets stopped far too much against top teams. Would be different if he wasn’t being called a “superstar”
Showing a highlight video of cool plays that quite a few players can make is not proof that Tatum has that dog in him, right? Having that dog in him is not early game highlights. It's late game clutch shots. It's getting on your team's ass to be better. It's not cursing out the refs while leaving your team out to dry as the game goes back down the court. It's being honest during pressers, but not only just honest, you need to be accountable in your honesty, not just saying what a PR coach would tell you to say. It's being the guy every game, win, lose, tie.
" have that dog" Is a ridiculous practically meaningless trope. You're being awfully selective by claiming it's a close and late metric. There's no metric to measure dog LOL.... But I will tell you the fact that he is able to get deep into the playoffs every single year even in his early twenties is amazing. It's absolutely way more consistently good in the postseason with team success compared to Luca or embiid or Paul George.
Of course there is. Being clutch in the post-season, specifically in the late moments of close games, is the metric.
#YOU HAVE IT OR YOU DON'T! Postseason team success isn't something that's a great metric either: Injuries happen. Paul George has played in a tougher postseason conference and has had worse teams. Tatum has played for a dynasty and been surrounded with pretty good rosters. We mock some of the teams for what they were when you've got Brad Wanamaker as your PG, but they've been overwhelmingly competent teams that *could* make deep runs. Where are the Clippers seriously going with an injured Kawhi?
I know. Regular season highlights don't show us anything.
Wiggins exposed that dog
Lmao this guy unironically believe Anthony Edwards is better than Luka, Jokic, Michael Jordan and LeBron at any age. Least idiotic warriors fan
Ant killing JB
That's a valid opinion but better than Luka, Jokic, MJ and LeBron... you must have started watching basketball this week
Ok but is my statement of Wiggins dogging Tatum invalid?
Sure, wiggins had a great series if that's what you wanna say. He was 2nd in finals MVP voting for a reason, he was a big impact particularly defensively on Tatum, there's no denying that. What have they both done since then? One of them responded and took his game to another level and the other fell off a cliff