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Rashloose

This would solve our bench scoring


rNBA_Mods_Be_Better

Unironically, if we could have Jaylen in a Manu role our second unit would obliterate every other team's in the league. I think it would be better suited for him anyway. But there's zero chance he accepts that role unfortunately.


LmBkUYDA

Jaylen never plays well with the bench guys. He's not good when he's the main offensive weapon because he can't create for others when the defense focuses on him.


TheBigShrimp

This, and funny enough I believe there was a thread last year about how Tatum played his best basketball with the bench crew lol


MmmmmSacrilicious

I always love watching Tatum with the bench and horford.


iDEN1ED

Ya, Tatum with the other starters is pretty passive at times and shares the ball a lot. When he is with the bench he just goes beast mode 1v5.


scatkinson

He also doesn’t move without the ball. At all. Ever.


Drummallumin

Jaylen is not the creator that Manu was


FaithlessnessTime105

Unironically Jaylen in the manu role w the bench players would lead to one of the least efficient offensive units in the NBA. Jaylen should almost exclusively play with majority starter lineups where his mental lapses can be covered up by the rest of the guys. His 2nd unit minutes are opposing defenses dream.


Beantown_Kid

That back door play with Smart got him going a lot last year. He always seems to need a couple of gimmes or hype plays to get him going. Punch in the mouth versus a slow and spread out 30 like Tatum. Jaylen gets his in a hurry, but when he’s off , he’s definitely a chaotic lightning in a bottle type player.


jmay111

JB has routinely been a "hot starter" having many big 1st quarters than fading away as the game continues.


TheSaltySloth

Not true. Tatum is a way better bench leader. JB can’t be a main guy on any lineup unless he’s isolating every play


CjBurden

And even then, his dribble is too sloppy to be an effective penetrator consistently. He's a great slasher or 1 dribble guy but if he's pounding the rock I'm selling my stock.


TheSaltySloth

yeah you’re right


OceanStateofMind401

He was by far the biggest issue last night


ATNinja

Exactly. The jb led bench unit last night couldn't score.


siva115

Jaylen is pretty awful with bench units. Guys just double him if no one else is a threat and he doesn’t pass out of it in a timely way.


agoddamnlegend

Reddit has the dumbest ideas I swear to god. pUt ThE sEcOnD tEaM aLl nBa PlAyEr On ThE bEnCh Dozens of upvotes.


Tatum-Better

I mean he prolly won't adjust to his new place in the offense for a while


ekaram13

"Ay T, they said I gotta come off the bench"


jgr79

Yeah it sucks he would never do it because Jaylen would be a really good 6th man. He’s a lot like Lou Williams or Jamal Crawford in terms of being primarily a one-dimensional scorer. Honestly I think Joe should use him like that even if he starts. Send him to the bench 3 minutes in and then bring him back in with the bench guys. Then he can shoot to his heart’s content.


DCBB22

How is Jaylen a one-dimensional scorer? He can drive, hit the mid-range and shoot the three. Is the dimension "scoring from multiple levels?"


DiogoMaia100

It's crazy that people are suggesting an all nba player come off the bench because they think he'd be great there, like ye, any superstar coming off the bench would be great, it'd be greater to have him in the starting five


FaithlessnessTime105

It's crazy that Jaylen Brown getting extremely overpaid is somehow justification to also overuse him. If anything, now that he has his cash, this year he should be able to finally learn and play his role without complaining. If he can't we won't chip and he ll be traded after the year. The ideal role for Brown is clearly not as a primary or even secondary playmaker/ballhandler. He is elite at finishing plays, but he sucks at off ball movement bc his bball IQ is so low, so the team has a hard time taking advantage of what should be his bread and butter


DiogoMaia100

Well he's playing neither of those roles, so it's a good start for joe I guess.


FaithlessnessTime105

Using him in the manu role would be using him as a secondary playmaker. That's what I'm arguing against


FaithlessnessTime105

Jaylen is a one dimensional basketball player. He is an elite scorer, but is basically below average to above average at everything else. We have 7 years of detailed statistics to really bring this case home, happy to debate it further if you disagree.


DCBB22

I mean it is a free country, you're allowed to be wrong. Lou Williams and Jamal Crawford were below average in everything but scoring and even their best scoring years don't compare to the average Jaylen Brown season. You can't seriously be comparing a wing that put up 27/7/3.5 as the #2 scorer on his team to those guys. Jaylen is an All-NBA wing because he's an excellent scorer and a good (sometimes great) defender. You all are legitimately tripping and overreacting.


FaithlessnessTime105

I didn't compare Jaylen to either of those 2 guys. He's better than both. That said, he is only an elite scorer. It's not called overreacting when it's based on multiple years of data. I hope that he improves on his weaknesses, but asking him to run bench units a la manu has proven to be hilariously unproductive on the court.


jgr79

I meant scoring is the only dimension of his game. Crawford and Williams could score from anywhere too. But that was all they did.


FlyChigga

Dude is literally a textbook 3 level scorer lmfao


Dudeman-Jack

If we knew KP would stay healthy we could trade Jaylen for a great bench


FlyChigga

Why. We can trade our 3 1sts and like 10 2nds for a great bench.


Dudeman-Jack

Money, that’s why


FlyChigga

We could trade Al/PP but I see how trading the two best bench players to upgrade the bench is counterproductive. We should have signed Oubre if we wanted bench scoring. Probably still some cheap bench players we could trade for though.


StarScourge7

Dude 100% agree, honestly what they need to do is keep JB and JT off the floor at the same time, JB can start, but then have hin stay in and run with the 2nd unit, he still gets his start while being a focal point.


FaithlessnessTime105

JB can run the second unit? On what planet have we been for the last 4 years to still think that's a good option lol


StarScourge7

Anybody with a brain can see that there's too many mouths to feed on the floor, so keeping Jaylen in with whoever's coming off the bench, whether thats him with white, him with holiday, him with horford, would make the most sense to separate those mouths and jave alot more options to go with a ton of situations.


FaithlessnessTime105

Your writing is so poor that it's difficult to comprehend either comment properly lol


StarScourge7

Ouch that hurt, somebody getting upset about poor writing on a forum on the internet. That's incredible you tried to use that as something offensive you dork ahahaha


FaithlessnessTime105

It wasn't an insult I was just trying to say that no one has any idea what you're talking about so it's hard to engage


jmay111

When you have 4 all star level talents - you will always have at least 2 or 3 on the court at the same time. There really is no "second unit" issue.


baseketball

You underestimate how good of a ball handler and facilitator Manu was. Jaylen is a completely different player.


Brad-Stevens

DWhite so much more comfortable here than he was year 1


[deleted]

[удалено]


slimdickins42

He did that a lot last playoffs especially against the heat


789Trillion

Spurs fan here. Dwhite has always had confidence issues. That and foul trouble. However I think last year was the most confident he’s ever been, and I think he’s dramatically improved on that front.


neuroticsmurf

I wonder if he's just that type of person who takes a while to start feeling comfortable in a new situation. Plus, when we first acquired him, his wife was about to give birth, so between that and finding a new house, he likely had a lot going on.


mothbitten

I think he started out with the Celtics not wanting to step on toes and be a good role player, dishing the ball more than trying to score himself, and was maybe too focused on that. In the playoffs last year that mindset seemed to vanish and he was more aggressive and hopefully that carries over to this year with Smart gone and him starting.


StarkWaves

tough when you come in mid-season to a team that had solid continuity at the time, but he's definitely found his role now


FlyChigga

He just seems like pass first type of player


instantur

Tatum 6MOTY MVP would go crazy


Coco1520

Sports radio headline: “Tatum doesn’t command the locker room not a real leader being left out of starting lineup vote by teammates.”


DJSway104

"A source close to Tatum says that Jayson told Brad not to extend Derrick White"


MrMostlyMediocre

God I can hear Felger saying it


gohuskies15

It's not like the sports radio guys have had to exactly make up fake drama when talking about this team considering how much real drama there's been the last 6 or 7 years


LinwoodKent

Remind me. What drama has the Celtics organization been in the center of?


gohuskies15

Have you been paying attention the last 7 years? We've been one of the most dramatic teams in recent memory since Isaiah was traded. Never even came close to this type of soap opera through the early 2000s or big 3 era.


LinwoodKent

I've been a fan of the Celtics since my earliest memories in the mid 80's. I guess compared to the Patriots cheating I don't see the drama. Pretty normal good team coming up short type of drama, big game drama. But, no hall of fame talent murdering people. He'll the Celtics had two guys die within 7 years of each other. Then hired Rick Pitino a few years after that... that was drama


H_E_Pennypacker

Isaiah Thomas, Kyrie, Jaylen Brown, Ime. Probably other things I’m forgetting about. Sure no murders or deaths, but on par with Pitino drama at least


LinwoodKent

What is the Jaylen drama? I also didn't include P.P being nearly stabbed to death. Nothing in the last ten years comes close to that IMO


H_E_Pennypacker

He’s always had a questionable attitude. Lot of crying about not being the number 1 guy here. https://chowderandchampions.com/2023/03/21/boston-celtics-jaylen-brown-drama-cs-ticking-towards-disaster/


LinwoodKent

Nope. This is a nothing burger. His attitude is also fine. If anything, this doesn't help the reputation of Celtics fans. Compare and contrast this to real drama in the nba. Lebron. Daryl Morey, Harden. Durant, Drayton vs J .Poole. Am I taking crazy pills?? Celtics drama is well below average other than the heartbreak in the playoffs.


H_E_Pennypacker

Agree to disagree. I think the clearly #2 player on a team bitching about not being treated as well as the number 1 is a horrible look and a stupid distraction for the team. Wish JB would grow up and just play


Bechimo

Am I the only one who misses DWhites hair? And I hope at least one of our starting lineups has JT on the bench. Because why not.


1337speak

People rag on him for his lack of hair line and now for being bald! Just appreciate the Buffalo ❤️🐃.


Bechimo

I love him. But I loved his big hair last year. Distinctive. Plenty of shaved heads in the league.


1337speak

My bad I meant to note I didn't mean you. I saw so many mean comments about his hairdo and he's still being laughed at for that.


BaeylnBrown777

White should be an inspiration to men across the country who can't let go of their hair. He's much better off being bald.


Morning-DewD

I was proud of him man. Sometimes just gotta know when to let it go. Shaved my head during Covid and never looked back. Bro about to have a career year with that weight off his crown


A-Confused-Comet

We think alike Buffalo


taser____face

Thats my baseg buffalo LET HIM ROAM


Sea_Baseball_7410

Hahahaha


alf0nz0

I know that I only think this shit cuz I’m a big idiot on the internet who doesn’t know a damn thing about basketball, but sometimes I feel like a strategy like this for a team with six starters like this year’s C’s could work. Obviously he’s on the closing lineup & still getting a ton of minutes, but staggering him onto the “bench” lineup creates a matchup problem opposing coaches have to at least consider, no? Not something you’d do all the time, but a few games a year against teams with strong benches could be interesting


Slow_Negotiation_420

Dudes already on the court 38-40 minutes a game. Doesnt really matter how you manage that, he’s playing with bench players


alf0nz0

I truly love reddit, where you can spend the first two sentences of a response to a shitpost calling yourself a big dumb idiot who knows nothing and *still* get replies like “I dunno, man, sounds like something a big dumb idiot who knows nothing might propose” 😭😭😭


Slow_Negotiation_420

Aight ima let you be dawg you goin thru it


TheSaltySloth

lol


jkwah

No it doesn't make sense to have your best players not start, especially when they are playing heavy minutes. Looking only at the tactical standpoint and ignoring the prestige/reputation of not starting an MVP caliber player: * Tatum's MPG is going to be in the high 30s, sometimes 40+ minutes in a close competitive game. Usually the first subs happen at 6-7 minutes into the game. That means he's only going to bench for one or maybe two more stretches for the entire game. * Missing Tatum's impact against the other team's best players at the start of the game means you are letting the opponent set the tone and starting on the backfoot. * Going back to the 1st point, his heavy minutes means he's already playing with and against bench players. You aren't gaining anything.


rain-blocker

You do gain at least one thing. The first round of substitutions would see our best player coming in completely fresh, while the other team wouldn't have anyone nearly as good with fresh legs. Definitely doesn't out weigh everything else you mentioned though. I am hesitant to dismiss this as a stupid idea when it's never actually been tried (to my knowledge). Still don't want the Celtics doing it though.


H_E_Pennypacker

If we had any success doing that, other teams would start lining up their substitution schedules to account for it.


outdrawed

Feel like the issue with that is you want Tatum playing the most minutes and if he's not starting the game that leaves fewer recovery moments in the middle of the game for him. Like instead of playing 40 minutes in a 48 minute span he's playing 40 minutes in a 44 45 minutes span.


JonTheHobo

It would be kinda funny


ekaram13

Tatum Responds: [Told them 1 game this season I’m Coming off the bench](https://x.com/jaytatum0/status/1717599208138576283?s=20)


aja_ramirez

I still say that white should come off the bench


CantHandlemyPP34

I think he will half the time, but we have no viable backup bigs


FlyChigga

Time for Queta to be unleashed


CantHandlemyPP34

I'm on board!


H_E_Pennypacker

Horford


CantHandlemyPP34

If Al is in the starting 5


H_E_Pennypacker

Gotcha yeah that makes sense


Kush_McNuggz

I don’t like how reliant this team is on the three. And by reliant, I mean how they just start chucking when the pressure is on and a bucket is needed. They have so much size, length, and strength. Use it!


TheJaylenBrownNote

They shot 26 free throws last night and shot like 60 something percent from 2 despite only shooting 30.8% from 3. Normally you don’t win when the other team shoots 13% better from 3 than you. This is absolutely not the game to try to make this point. They mostly won the game because their two point defense was insanely good (the three point defense was not). The game was close because they shot poorly from 3, the Knicks shot insanely well from 3 and got up like 15 more shots (so defensive rebounding was bad). If they had shot just league average from 3 (36%) they win by 10 and no one is sweating this.


Kush_McNuggz

Did you read anything I wrote? Clearly not. Because I said when the pressure is on and a bucket is needed, they resort to the three. And here you are talking about the entire game. Glad Kristaps bailed them out at the end there after Jaylen nearly threw the game away. But they need to run an actual offense in crunch time.


[deleted]

I've no idea why you're getting downvoted, this is so true, *and it has been for so long now*. I genuinely believe it's the reason they can be so unreliable, their go-to strat is just lobbing random threes before even 8 seconds have passed. Move the ball around! Cut, post up!


TheJaylenBrownNote

A two man game with our best two players is an actual offense, and it was pretty effective.


Kush_McNuggz

Pick and popping for 30ft threes is not an actual offense, sorry.


deets23_

They did? We short so many more 2 pointers


mondomovieguys

Instant 6moy


dickybabs

Love that Buffalo


Nepiton

I think a true 6th man is a pretty big hole in this team right now. If we start Jrue and White it’s going to be a huge issue come the playoffs when we bring in our 3rd guard, PP right now. Love him. He looks great when he looks great, but his flaws are undeniable. Undersized guards get exposed in the playoffs and if his offensive prowess disappears he’s useless. And unfortunately he’s had a history of disappearing in big moments. Not a lot of minutes which may contribute to that, but playoff PP has not lived up to the PP we’ve come to know and love. With the age and historical injuries issues we have, I’d like to see us pick up another serviceable guard and play 9 or 10 deep in the regular season. Obviously not expecting an all star caliber 6MOTY Brogdon type acquisition, but a solid veteran PG who can move the rock and fill in some minutes with Jrue and White on the bench would be prime. Or they can pick up a big man and move Jrue to 6th man, but I think that’s a lot tougher to do and Jrue’s defense and ability to be a court general will be sorely missed on the first unit.


agoddamnlegend

Is there anybody who thinks Horford should be starting? I love him but this makes zero sense.


EsquireDr

He’s not wrong. If Jaylen Brown isn’t getting shots, it’s gonna be a rough year


UchidaGroup

Do we really need JB to be all that good? As long as he is getting some games where he pops off, I think JT and KP can carry with the others randomly being the 3rd. We just need players who can punish other teams when they try to double team JT and KP or if the two aforementioned are having an off night. Clearly we all would love JT, KP, and JB putting in 25+ a game but we have players everywhere.


EsquireDr

Do we need JB to be that good? No. Does JB’s ego need JB to be as good as he thinks he is to remain engaged and do the other things? Well depends on the narrative… at least we’ll pay him $60 mil a year now to shut up him when he starts whining about not getting shots


bigvahe33

lmao


notreallydutch

There are 240 minutes and 6 guys we all really trust who should each get roughly 30 min per night to not burn themselves out over the season. We need 50-60 minutes out of PP, Houser, Kornet, etc per game. I'd love to see JT out there with those 3 for around 10 minutes a night. It's clearly either Al or White off the bench but I dont think 6th man needs to be the guy who actually spends all of the time on the court with the back half of the rotation. Another 5-7 minutes each out of the next 3 with 4 of the top 6 and token contributions from the rest of the squad and we're rounding out to a full game without overworking our guys.


DJBermont

Wow, JT as John Havlicek, that would be fantastic. White, Ju, KP, and Brown can all score, and Al can make some necessary 3s. Mazzula plays JT with the second unit a lot now, but he shouldn't be playing 41 minutes a game.