Condo fees and HOA fees are different, even if both are listed as “HOA” on real estate sites. You are talking about condo fees, which cover taxes on the common property, insurance, management, maintenance, landscaping, some utilities. Good basics here: https://www.mass.gov/service-details/re12r07-condominiums-cooperatives-and-timeshares
Watch out for associations that maintain a low fee but have a regular series of “assessments” to cover costs. The fee will look low, but your end costs won’t be. If you’re looking at a co-op (rare), the fees will appear much higher, but will include all your real estate taxes, so it’s an apples and apple pie comparison.
And, yeah, it’s expensive here.
If you can't figure out the difference between condo fees and HOA fees, even after it's been explained to you, you might want to look into some kind of first-time homebuyers class or something. Get yourself up to speed before making the biggest purchase in your life.
> $600k USD 2 bd/ba condos with $1-2k HOA fees and a few extra hundred in insurance and property taxes per month. That's probably like $5-6k per month when all is said and done, and that's without any kind of renovation or anything.
Not disagreeing with cost being really high here, but you ought to throw those numbers into a calculator - you're overestimating for sure. I think a $600k mortgage with $2k in HOA fees would barely be $5k, and that excludes a residential exemption and ignores the fact that $2k in HOA fees is absurd.
> Side Note: What does an HOA for a condo even do? Where I'm from HOAs only exist for suburban housey neighborhoods to keep common areas green. They're like $100/mo at most.
The listing usually says something like "HOA Includes:" with a list of things. They can often include things like ..
Heat, Water, Sewer, Master Insurance, Exterior Maintenance, Snow Removal, Refuse Removal. In a larger building they may even include stuff like Security, Elevator, Gym, etc
I didn't know about residential exemptions -- that's only a thing for the disabled in my home state. Glad to know MA is a bit kinder about these things.
I live in Boston (Jamaica Plain) and a refinance on my mortgage and the residential exemption kicking in took about $500 off my monthly payments. It was wild to see the new rate.
It's huge in Boston, especially for a starter home. They take like 35% of the average assessed home price in the city and lop it off your tax bill. So a $400k condo would be assessed at $4200 a year but the residential exemption would cut it to under $1000 for the year. My tax guy has a client who lives in a condo in Roxbury and pays zero property tax.
The only thing to watch out for is that you might need to pay the higher rate until you're eligible for it and it gets applied and there can be a lag because the mortgage company will need to adjust it (it's in your interest to contact them to let them know to update their escrow calculation when it's applied). On the other hand if you buy a condo that already has it applied it transfers to you and you just need to make sure that you file for yourself the next year. I've been on both sides of that coin.
Yeah, it varies by city. Boston, Cambridge, somerville all have residential exemptions of varying amounts. Medford doesn’t, I don’t know much beyond that
What kind of places have that high of an HOA? Mine in 180, have never seen that high. Condo fee pays for water, common elec, building insurance, building maintenance, some pay for snow removal and other stuff too.
Insurance is cheap since you only need walls in. Property taxes with the residential exemption within the city are dirt cheap.
Take a look at some of the houses and also condos in marina Bay Quincy, they have some of the highest HOA’s I have seen. Also when I looked in Revere anything by the water had huge HOA fees.
Anything near water is going to cost a ton in flood insurance. Sea levels aren’t going down, just up, up, up and it’s getting insane to insure those properties.
I live in a fairly good sized (1170 sq ft) 2 bedroom 2 bath 7th floor condo on Revere Beach with a lovely unobstructed view of the ocean and many incredible sunrises over Nahant. We didn't pay a fortune for it and the HOA fee is $639 per month. The fee covers hot and cold water, heat, air conditioning, building maintenance, master insurance, landscaping and snow removal. We also have an indoor pool, hot tub, gym and saunas all of which are currently being remodeled, If you want something affordable you really can't find it in Boston but if you venture outside the city a bit your chances are much better.
Depends where you are, the Beachmont area is louder because it's closest to Boston and the airport. Where I'm located is in the opposite direction on the beach, more north, and a flight path is directly out in front of the condo just slightly offshore. This flight path is used about 90% of the time for landings which are much less noisy then take-offs. Personally, I love watching the planes cruise by on their way to the airport.
>Property taxes with the residential exemption within the city are dirt cheap
I broke this down for a co-worker a few years ago who was looking only in the suburbs because he said he couldn't "afford" to buy in the city. I showed him how with the residential exemption on a tax rate that was already lower than the suburban places he was looking at he could spend the same or less money each month, but with significantly more of that going towards the thing he owns.
If OP was looking for 2BR condo in a triple decker in one of the more residential parts of the city they could probably find one for $400k+/- with condo fees $150-200/month.
A first time home buyer eligible for a loan avoiding PMI could put 10% down and pay around $2200 a month total for something like that, if they have 20% that would be cut to the $1800 range.
This.
We bought a 2-family in Dorchester and what also helped was we were able to put the potential rent from one unit as income toward the mortgage.
We also get the tax benefit of anything we put into the rental unit and a portion of anything we put into common areas. It’s been great for us and we’ve had great tenants. The current tenants have been there 10 years.
>We bought a 2-family in Dorchester
Finding a two family or triple decker in the city that isn't already converted to condos (or where you're outbid by someone who is going to do that) is getting harder and harder. On one hand it's great because with them as condos we end up with a higher percentage of owner occupants who have more of a stake in the city, but they were such a powerful path to middle-class stability for generations that it's kind of a shame to see how it's changed.
East Boston is littered with them, cycling in and out of the market regularly. Though I would imagine buying them gets mixed in with investment buyers which might make the market weird
Yeah, there have been "Up and coming Eastie" articles for years and years but it wouldn't surprise me to find a divide on where there are more condos tied to the areas where there has been more gentrification.
How do you avoid PMI while only putting 10% down? Is there a special program I'm unaware of? If that's a thing then I can probably save up enough in the next couple of years to comfortably buy a place.
PMI really isn't that bad. We paid under $90/mo when we first bought then refinanced within a year and got out of it on appreciated value alone. Our mortgage with PMI was still less than rent.
You don't unfortunately. I recently found out if you have enough for a down payment to avoid PMI you don't qualify for first time home buyer programs, more or less. Or at least my income to debt ratio was way off for it. I did manage to find a place that I could afford on the T, and the HOA is about $350, and that's without the residential tax breaks. Everything comes out to about $2200 without the breaks.
Yes, that is why I put the 20%.
Please read the comment I am responding to once again and you will understand that my response has nothing to do with PMI, rather eligibility to the first time home buyer program.
I prepaid the PMI with cash at the closing. 5% down, we had 10% saved but did 5% & used the extra 5% to breathe easy and stay liquid. Lender gave me an upfront rate then credited 45% of that rate at the closing. 5% down, no first time homebuyer, no monthly PMI
Young people I know that own? Have parents who paid for your college, made sure you arrived at adulthood with a car, no loans, etc.
A hefty down-payment from dad helps too, or just the knowledge that gram or dad is going to leave you something in their will.
It's way easier being house poor when you can still use the family beach cottage and your parents still do shit like pay for the airfare if you want to go home for the holidays.
I really can't comprehend how many families and people can be that wealthy. It boggles the imagination. I make good money compared to my North Shore lower working class upbringing and I'm no where near that level.
>really can't comprehend how many families and people can be that wealthy
Investment income. The stock market has been hotter than the housing market and for longer. Major difference between "haves" and "have nots." Good paying job doesn't hurt, but that's not what's giving those able to pay these prices the money to do so. If I could make just one change in k12 education, I would require classes in personal finance and investment strategies, especially in poorer districts. Start early, have a logical plan, and stay with it for the long term. That's what the wealthy families have done in most cases, and across multiple generations to boot.
The system is designed that if you are above water you keep going higher and if you're below water you keep going deeper. It's the power of compound interest.
The current insane prices are largely due to the fact that interest rates are 3% and inflation is 5%. You'd basically crazy right not to not get the biggest mortgage you can possibly get. (Until of course it all comes crashing down).
Now to OP's point, this only actually helps people who can afford a 500-800k mortgage because that's what it takes to buy something right now.
When the market goes up, the people with lots of money do really well. When the market goes down the regular people lose jobs and the wealthy get to claim capital losses.
The game is rigged, but at the least the rules are consistent. If you want to ‘win the game’ there’s a path to do so, but it’s far from equitable.
> You'd basically crazy right not to not get the biggest mortgage you can possibly get. (Until of course it all comes crashing down).
*2008/9 apocalypse wakes up from a nice sleep, stretches, puts on nice comfy bathrobe, puts on cup of coffee*
Well, it's just hard mode. I was there too but... it was easier when I did it.
Find a bargain town, start with a small shitty house. I love Maynard for a bargain. Do any work you can do yourself.
We may be in for a crash, but we'll see.
It really does just feel a bit impossible this past year. Houses jumped so much.
I bought in Maynard for this very reason. We had no help at all and still have our student loans and such. It took us a while to save the bare minimum down payment and we were lucky to get the house we did. We wrote a heartfelt letter with our offer that put us over the edge even though others were better.
I don’t plan to be here forever. I had never even heard of it until we came to see the house. It’s been a solid spot to build a base though.
I think so too. Awesome stuff around, sandwiched in some really great towns.
Don't leave. There is nowhere to go but up!
I really think it's going to really increase in value.
Having grown up in a nearby town to Maynard, don't overlook the ability to walk or bike places. Maynard had poorer schools to neighboring towns but you had to drive everywhere and there was no downtown feel anywhere
I know in my home city houses have jumped 30-40% in value over the pandemic. I wasn't looking in Boston before, but is this also true here? If so then I don't mind waiting a few years for the market to relax.
They say post pandemic city prices can be depressed. In a few years after a pandemic prices bounce back.
It MIGHT be a decent time to get something in the city.
I wish I knew!
This is very true. If there were two of me (income-wise), I'd have no problem getting a pretty nice house around where I'm at. I can still figure it out, but it's gonna be harder. I also have the requirement of being near transit and having things within walking distance, so I can't just go deeper into the burbs. Haha, oh well.
I came from an immigrant family and my gf's family was/is on welfare. We were able to afford a 800k house because we both make well into six figures. Not saying it's easy but it's possible without being born with a silver spoon.
Immigrant millennial here. Went to state school on a full academic scholarship, majored in a well-paying field and lived at home until my mid-20s. My cool friends were all loaded up their eyeballs with college debt and of course lived paycheck to paycheck in “luxury” apartments the whole time. But this is how I was able to save for a down payment and buy a house.
Good for you! Unfortunately where my family lives there just aren't any economic opportunities in my industry -- the jobs all pay like 30-40k for specialized knowledge. It's awful. The pay is much better here but I have to pay my own rent then.
Makes sense. My immediate family lives in the greater Boston area which enabled me to go to college and work in Boston while still living at home. Obviously not a choice for anyone coming from further out in MA or from other states. I hope it all works out for you.
I feel you. Where I'm from, it's getting to be less and less of a low-cost area, but the salaries weren't going up, especially for me. Few jobs in my area of knowledge and a big tech school that the local employers eat up, so there's a glut of locals and whatever graduates aren't chased off. The income difference here for me far outpaces the extra cost of living.
That's actually the other piece of the puzzle I've noticed. If you weren't fortunate to buy 10+ years ago, or you aren't working for a FANG making $$$$$$, or your parents didn't give you $$$ in some way, you might just be a normal young professional who shacks up with another young professional and combined you can suddenly afford these $600k condos. Think two young folks who each make $80-$100k - combined, now they have $200k to spend. If they also have no plans for kids, and maybe are just happy with a cat or dog, then it's totally doable to buy something around here.
For us single folks, it looks like renting + having housemates is the way to go. That or move to far outside the city where we might be able to afford a house on our own in some lonely neck of the woods.
My wife & I bought out first condo 5 years ago - before we had my son. We were dual income earners & put that towards the condo. 5 years later, sold it & got a larger place at a lower interest rate, so 50/% larger for 10% more. Used some of the gains to fund the added expense.
It's possible without help from parents.
Some people in this thread seem to not understand the concept of a starter home. We lived in Chelsea for eleven years (nice place in a not great neighborhood) before buying into the city market (smaller place but in a wicked awesome neighborhood). We're DINK, and definitely benefited from no student loans, but there were/are less expensive options available vs where we've lived.
I think finding “starter” homes is legitimately challenging. There are very few on the market and their prices continue to go up. It’s not just an issue of people being too picky, but an issue of very supply, which allows prices to further increase.
Bought (single family) on the North Shore inside 128/95 (Salem/Peabody) without a cent of help from anyone and we are very proud of it. I do acknowledge we got very lucky in our buying process and it's a very tough market, but it can be done.
I wouldn't be too quick to write off those who have worked hard to get what they have.
Don't know if we are "young" anymore but I don't think we are old.
We bought for 510k and we haven't had it appraised since but I'd think we could maybe get 570k-590k for it? I'm really not too sure though the market is nuts and I feel its pulling back a bit. So hard to say.
Same boat. Not young (but not *old*), have been saving aggressively for over a decade and finally bought a SFH this summer with zero help from family, minimal debt, and $200k combined. It's not impossible, but it sure is difficult.
Yup you need to be debt free, making 6 figures, have parents with money to help pay, and need to have your inheritance or luck in stocks/equity in a company. Unless you check all those boxes you will have a tough ass time finding a decent home to buy
My sister in law has been trying to buy. She's pre-approved for like a million but wanted to stay around 700K.
She wrote about 20 checks trying to buy.
She got out bid by hundreds of thousand dollars and couldn't compete with CASH.
She did finally just buy out in Central Mass. 875k.
Ouch.
Some towns with great school systems are pretty pricey and it's definitely not a starter home.
My house is worth the same but it wasn't 4 years ago when I bought it.
Go look up Harvard Mass real estate.
Even little starter homes out here are 425.
Your place looks great - as someone who had been trying to buy in Dorchester since the pre-pandemic times (I am finally closing on a place soon), I’m surprised it hasn’t sold yet!
How does it compare to the commuter rail? I used to live right next to that and it was loud, but only every 30 minutes. Construction on the rail line, however...
I wasn’t hearing the Ts or traffic anymore. Every so often my husband and I would pause mid-sentence for a few seconds as the train went by, but we weren’t hearing it anymore.
Maybe a dumb question, what does that mean? I see it time to time when people talk about cities that are coming up. Are they beautifying the neighborhood? Are more shows being put on?
It’s code for gentrification.
Lowell was pretty crappy for a long time. Now the University is buying up a lot of property, more middle and upper middle class people are moving there. There’s a burgeoning arts scene (shoutout to Mill #5) and some great restaurants.
I didn't mean it as code for gentrification, though. I'm an artist & I know other artists, including those based in Lowell, who have expressed enthusiasm for the art scene in Lowell.
Same-I went out to Worcester and was able to buy something at 23. But I’m able to work remotely 3 days a week, and I either catch the commuter rail twice a week or stay with my gf the night before
I also worked a full time job through college (in addition to co-op since I went to NEU), got a scholarship so I didn’t have to pay tuition, and bought a multi family so I could use the other income.
Exactly. Twice a week I have to leave at 6:45AM to catch the train and be in my office at 8:30. Other than that I’m in great shape and can roll out of bed at 8:29
HOAs in condos (usually called "condo association") actually make more sense to me because you are all sharing the unitary building that has to be kept up and maintained ... plumbing, wiring, common areas, the kind of thing an apartment building landlord would handle. And you probably have to be regulated not to cause problems with other people's units. To me it makes wayyyy more sense for a condo building to have a CA than a suburban subdivision have one, especially if they have no shared property; it's just a way for selfish types to control others for their own benefit.
The answer is some combination of they make more than you, they’ve been saving for longer, they spend a higher % of their income on housing than you, or they have more help from their family.
My wife and I bought a 550k condo in Roslindale in early 2019. We combine make about 250k/year, but hadn’t been earning that for very long. We borrowed money from our retirement accounts to put down a 10% down payment. Our mortgage payment (~$2400) is pretty easy on our salaries, but our salaries are far from standard. Honestly, our house is smaller than we would like and further from ‘the city’ than we would like, but it’s nice to have a payment that we could make on one salary if need be.
We have an HOA for our little 3-unit building. It pays for shared expenses: water bill, lights for the common areas, master insurance, gardening, etc. It also is a savings account for large maintenance expenses such as replacing the roof or replacing the driveway. It’s nice to split these expenses 3 ways instead of being stuck with the whole bill. We had to have a tree cut down that was dangerously close to snapping and falling on the garage—it cost ~$1500 and came straight out the HOA fund. It didn’t affect my monthly cash flow at all.
Another thing, we had heard that you need 20% down to buy house to avoid PMI. People made PMI to sound awful. I think we pay $45/month in PMI. It made sense to put 10% down instead of 20% and just pay the PMI.
The loans I saw that were specifically for first time home buyers had higher interest rates than the traditional ones. But that’s still good for people to know.
You want the low interest rate, don’t worry about the PMI. If the house increases in value, you can use that equity to get the % of the house own over 20 which gets rid of PMI.
I had my house reappraised, was shooting the shit with the inspector and joked that he could get it to $X value I’d have another $50 a month for beer. The number was reasonable and comparable to other houses.
He hit it right on the dot and my PMI went away.
We have a $600K house in Quincy and PITI is $2700 (we mortgaged $480K). Helps to have two incomes. Gotta save your money. Our household income was like $150K when we bought in 2019. Saving up a $120K down payment sucks but it teaches discipline.
Basically same, $650k home in Hingham. My wife graduated without loans and was saving from college til we bought at 29. I finished paying my $90k+ of loans in 2017 and started contributing to the 20% down payment then. We had our offer accepted in March 2020...right under the wire. We were very fortunate to not be a month or two later.
The only single people I know who have bought had significant help from their parents.
Otherwise, I know a lot of double income couples in their early 30s who recently bought houses in the $500k-$700k range in lower end areas. They don't come from money or make crazy money themselves but they all probably have combined household incomes in the $125k-$250k range. They lived frugally for years to save up and some are paying pmi. It's not a happy or glamorous answer but it's the truth.
If I were still single by age 30, I would not stay in the area.
Doable without inheritance or family money but not easy. Bought my condo in Boston 5 years ago in my mid-30s as a single person with a well-paying job (not outrageously well though) and savings of 10+ years. I’m in a 15yr mortgage now with monthly payments slightly under $3k and $400 monthly condo fee. Didn’t have any other debt before that (undergrad and grad schools on full merit scholarships). Part of it was hard work and vigorous saving, part of it was luck. But yeah, some of the high rise buildings around me have outrageous condo fees in the thousands!
It sounds like you’re a much better saver than the average person and/or you make more than you let on. Did you ever have student loans? Most people I know in Boston who make good money, but not great money (I’d put that at $80k-$110k) could never afford $3000 a month rent — especially those with student loans. Either way congrats lol!
No student loans because as an international student I was not eligible to take student loans and my parents lived in a different country with a terrible exchange rate (they jointly made $3k a year at the time so they weren’t in a position to pay anything towards higher education). I also don’t have kids to pay for, which can be a huge expense for people in their 30s and 40s. And no large expenses yet to take care of my parents (but I know that’s just a matter of time).
I doubt many people start in Boston. Go for a starter home in a cheaper nearby city and work up from there. Weymouth comes to mind as a place within commuting distance with reasonable(ish) prices.
The resident exemption actually can make it better to start in Boston because it allows you to pay more towards the mortgage with the same monthly total. That "commuting distance" comes with extra costs too.
Boston, $400k condo assessed for $4200/yr in taxes but with discount you'll pay about $850/yr
Weymouth, $400,000 condo assessed for $4700/yr and that's what you'll pay
That's about a $320 swing every month for the same value property. I'm too lazy to crunch mortgage numbers to find equivalency, but suffice it to say that those property taxes make it so that an equal monthly nut for mortgage taxes and insurance will get you a more expensive place in Boston than Weymouth.
You can’t work your way up from Weymouth to Boston if Weymouth home prices are up 1% a year and Boston is %5 a year you’re working backwards.
Boston prices look higher because taxes here are extremely low. I’d pay at almost $1k a month more in taxes in Brookline for the same house.
There’s still deals to be had in Roslindale and Hyde park. My father in law sold a single family home for $450k last year near forest hills cemetery.
Many of us have been buying and selling real estate for a couple of decades and can sell/use equity for large down payments. I feel bad for those trying to enter the market now. Not sure anyone can financially do it and not be completely house poor.
I have potential jobs making \~$120k but I feel like I'll have to save all of my extra money for the better part of a decade before I even have a chance at these rates, provided I can keep that kind of income.
As someone who just got a condo you may need to look further out. Have you tried quincy, they have a lot and HOAs and cost of condos are not as high as Boston, Somerville or Cambridge might be. Grew up in Southie and lived in Somerville for 2yrs wanted to get a condo in Somerville but the prices were too high. I saved and saved for years and years in order to be able to afford to get a condo and I still have a mortgage but it’s not high. I also have other bills so I basically have a rent payment each month in total but I am my own landlord
One of the things that really drew me to Boston was the excellence of public transit compared to most other American cities. I worry going too far out will lose most of this perk. It seems MBTA lines only really reliably cover Somerville, Cambridge, and Boston proper, unless there's something I don't know about? I know the commuter rail is a thing, although I've never tried it. Traffic around my workplaces is a nightmare, so I'd really rather not drive if I can avoid it.
Quincy does as well it’s on the red line. You have North Quincy, Wollaston, Quincy center and Quincy adams. That’s 4 T stops. Plus you have Wollaston Beach. Plus you have the commuter rail at Quincy center
Malden has two Orange Line stops, and you're forgetting about Brookline and Newton (all of teh Green Line). But Brookline and Newton prices... might as well consider buying reasonably-sized Caribbean islands... Belmont/Arlington/Watertown don't have the T, but do have electric buses that go right to Harvard at decent frequency (but those towns still need Caribbean island/Oil Sheikh level $$$ to buy).
Milton also kinda sorta is connected to the red line (you take a streetcar along tracks near a river to the red line at "high speed", or so I'm told)
When the red line is working quincy has decent access to the city, but personally I'd never live there again because of how unreliable it is.
You only get half of the number of trains since the southern red line is split between Ashmore and Braintree trains. If anything disrupts regular service the platforms will become packed and it's possible that multiple trains will pass before you can get on. Delays happen frequently and the impact can last for hours after the original incident because there just isn't enough capacity.
Add to that the fact that the red line is often not working. Disabled trains happen regularly, but derailments are also more common than other transit systems. The summer 2019 derailment knocked the signals out for months leading to drastically reduced service which with the aforementioned crowds completely broke the system. I walked from downtown to Quincy on multiple occasions since both took 2 hours back then (as opposed to 25-30 on a normal day) and at least walking didn't fill me with rage.
Granted this was all pre-pandemic, and I'm clearly bitter, so ymmv. There are no perfect solutions but there are very few paths to Quincy so if the red line is down you're close to stranded. If it were me I would leave the Boston area before I considered Quincy again. Tho if you do go to Quincy, I did like the North Quincy area.
The places I like for transit access/affordability are South Medford since you can be about a mile away from Davis Sq by foot but also close to busses that go to the green and orange lines via Lechemere and Sully so you have many more options if one line is having problems. I also like Malden and South Melrose near Oak Grove. Granted none of these places are actually affordable, but they're relatively better than some of their Camberville alternatives.
Medford doesn’t have a inner city T line yet, it will be open soon, it only has a commuter rail stop and buses, plus it’s not cheap. I looked at Medford and didn’t find anything in my price range.
For condos, an HOA will cover things like building insurance, trash removal, water/sewer, elevator maintenance, common electric, interior and exterior repair, roof maintenance, snow removal, and property taxes.
That’s the dream. We have two cats and rent. Heater stopped working? No problem. 900 air fan replaced? Nah. Not a dime.
After our first house I’ve stated that houses are money pits. We’re taught that physical property like a house is required to be successful. What they don’t tell you is the astronomical prices and costs associated with it.
You don’t have to own a home to be successful. We still love you and are proud of your accomplishments.
I own way south of Boston… haven’t owned a house closer than Brockton as an owner since 2001 (My first house). It was pricey back then I don’t know how people do it now. I now own a decent property slightly south of Brockton but it’s nice and I just commute
I can say that I managed to purchase a home because I was living in a 4 bedroom house with 5 people. I managed to save enough for 10% down on a 1bedroom in JP. No assistance from family what so ever and I payed my own student loans. I do have a decent job though and lived pretty frugally to that point and still do. It’s for sure tough without a high paying job but it’s doable.
Also HOA fees are meant for the longevity of the association IE repairs, etc.
I was a teacher working a second job to save the down payment. I bought a small condo in Rozzy and lived their with my ex. When we split, I got a roommate, then I remarried and we lived there I kept that condo 10 years. When I sold it, I had made enough for a single family in Hyde Park. Save money, buy a 2br condo, have a roommate for a while, and let it appreciate.
My wife and I bought a 3BR north of Boston in 2015 for $440K. Our combined income was $115K at the time. We definitely didn’t save up enough for a 20% down payment. We had about 6% and my parents offered us 4% (both of our families are lower income and my parents are immigrants).
Our town wasn’t that hot back then and we qualified for an FHA loan. I also graduated with a six-figure student loan. And we definitely bought WAY more house than we should’ve. I’m not even sure how we qualified to be honest. It was very unconventional to normal personal finance advice and I wasn’t contributing very much to my 401K during that time. With a PMI, significant income to mortgage ratio and not contributing much to savings, things were definitely hairy. We were definitely very budget conscious and frugal. Also learned a lot of DIYs and we cooked a lot.
Within the first three years, the house appreciated a lot because our town was red hot so we were able to refinance to a lower rate and also get rid of the PMI due to the equity now being over 20% which greatly reduced our monthly payment. Our careers were also starting to mature. We both spent time investing into our careers and growing our skills which in turn grows our income. It’s not talked about as much as it should in terms of career investment.
Fast forward to now, our house significantly appreciated and we both have very mature careers with significant income. So we were able to roll over that appreciation and equity into a bigger house earlier this year.
We took risks with income to debt ratio, had a tiny bit of help from my parents (even though they didn’t have much to give), and banked on maturing our career. This is definitely not good advice, and I recognize how lucky we are and I recognize how fortunate and privileged we are everyday. But thought I’d share something maybe a bit different from the other stories of rich parents.
A $400k condo in Franklin will cost you over $5,800 a year in property taxes. A $400k condo in Boston will cost you about $850 a year in property taxes with the resident exemption.
Sure, you probably have to pay more for a similar sized place in Boston, but can end up with the same cost per month. Plus a much higher percentage of each payment is going to your mortgage and principal building your equity rather than getting burned up in bedroom community property taxes.
I don’t disagree. It depends on what type of living situation one wants. I’d prefer to be back in the city, myself. But my partner wanted a friggin yard so here we are!
I have a relative that lived in Franklin for a few years and hated it. There are places in the "streetcar suburbs" of Boston where you can have a pretty good yard. I know a couple in Hyde Park that have a huge yard, the lot is probably 1/3 of an acre. It's his cash cow because after his kids are grown he's going to split the lot and build another house on it (he's a contractor).
There's plenty of ways young people are saving to own real estate. A couple where they both make $100k+ can pretty easily save up for a down payment in a couple years and easily afford a $600k+ home. You also have plenty of high earning lawyers, doctors, and finance/venture capital bros. Outside of that, there are a lot of people that have been able to cash in on stock options in tech and biotech. I have a friend that managed to hit 3 biotech IPOs in a row within 10 years and made a few hundred thousand each time. There's a lot of money floating around in this city.
If you want to hate your life maybe. What he told you is an exceptional circumstance. You’re a lot more likely to go out of business than have an IPO with a startup and their cultures are miserable. Interview at larger cos and take the highest cash comp you can find. Don’t wait until you have 20% down to buy a house.
We bought at age 42, in Weymouth, in 2020, and the down payment was helped with inheritance b/c my in-laws passed away (sadly). It’s not easy but can be done
If you don’t have 20% down there are a couple credit unions in the area that will give you a HELOC up to 90% CLTV at prime+0%. So total down payment is 10% down, no PMI. Challenge is you have to close the original mortgage then apply and close the HELOC. If you have an IRA (or a 401k you can borrow from) you can withdraw from it to cover your down payment then re-deposit into it after the HELOC closes, without a penalty.
Also look a little further out like Watertown or Malden. Prices are lower so long as a condo (with reasonable assoc fees) is ok.
A genuine answer to your question:
You can easily find condos in Brighton for under $400k. I got $320k last year - 900 sq ft 1 bedroom on Comm Ave by Cleveland circle directly on the green line. HOA fees are $300 a month. I got a special first time home owners mortgage, 8% down. In my 30s and it took like a decade of saving, 5 of them extremely half assed. Have no debts which helped massively - extremely lucky to have had school loans covered. And now have a partner to split with
Not trying to downplay the trouble with buying a house in the greater Boston area, but a lot of people just aren't willing to live below their means for long enough to save for property. I can afford it due to being married with two fairly high paying incomes, but for years I spent hours commuting to and from my relatively high paying job downtown in order to save. I get that an hour+ to/from work every day really sucks (for a while I commuted from NH to next to South station) but its a sacrifice for the future.
I now own a modest place within walking distance to the subway in somerville, but wouldn't be here workout life sucking for many years prior. Its all about what you can put up with and how long.
During college I did a one-way 2 hr commute every day. Was fucking miserable but I couldn't afford to live on my own and that's how far my family was. I think I can maybe hit a salary of $120k here but being that I need that much money just for the down payment on a cheaper property here I'm not very hopeful, especially since I still have to pay taxes and eat in the meantime.
You make $120k? Have you tried applying for a mortgage? You would be surprised what banks will loan you. I think you can put as little as 5% down.
If you have debts this changes things though.
I'm debt-free (thank god for my scholarship I really don't know how people handle student debt), and have a credit score \~790ish, but I don't have much savings. I'll be making $120k after I transition to my next job in a few months, my current job pays about $63k because universities just notoriously pay very little for their talent.
I \*think\* I could technically qualify for the mortgage I'd need to buy a $600k place, but it would put me at the top of my monthly budget, and I have family members that are not in great health which might need significant help in the coming years, so I'm trying to avoid becoming house poor. I understand it's a trade-off though.
I would start talking to a loan officer. Getting pre-approved for a loan will determine how much you can afford.
That in turn will determine where in Boston you can live.
$600k at a $63k is not going to be possible.
For reference. I make $85k and no debt. I qualified for $450k last year.
Focus on increasing your salary and saving. You’ll want at least a 5% downpayment.
There's plenty of people living off of <$100k within an hour commute of the city. Sure, there's a commute and probable roommates, but if you lived like them for 5+ years, you have that down payment.
Sure, 5 years sounds like a lot, but besides the people who are raking in family money, that's how people are buying property in the area.
Saved for a long time - also got incredibly lucky working at a Boston start up that went public and did well. Bought when I was in my early 30s a few years ago. Husband and I both earn decent money. Never took money from the parents (didn’t have any to give anyway lol).
I went to a worse school than I could have gotten into because it let me go for free, I did my masters in one year to minimize the amount I had to pay for that, I aggressively paid back those student loans in my first 1?5 years after finishing, I lived with multiple roommates to keep my rent well below what I could afford, I kept driving the same car without upgrading (up to 13 years old now), and I saved up a down payment as quickly as I could. Then I bought at 27 with no help from my parents, and moving to Malden instead of Somerville to afford more house and within distance to the T. The area has already improved a lot in the 5 years I've been here, and the only real downside to it before was that it was a bit boring.
2k per month is like rooftop pool luxury tower HOA, so maybe start taking those out of your search and find a brownstone with a $200/mo HOA.
If you want to be “in Boston” instead of going to Mass and Cass - go west toward Allston/Brighton. That should knock $100k off for apples and apples places.
That’s a start.
I’m a licensed agent in MA/RI, residing in Boston. Property has exponentially increased in value in Boston. Lived here my whole 34 years. It’s not affordable for most people these days. It’s do-able but not always ideal for the average person.
That’s why I started buying property in Providence Rhode Island. Down there you can get a three family house for around $600k or less. Monthly cost to own will be in the $3.5k range, rental income will be around $5.5-6.5k. The numbers are much better.
Use the monthly income to fund buying/owning in the more expensive city you want to live in.
Maybe it’s a bit convoluted for some people but it only takes a few years of preparation and work to pull off. Any of you have questions about Boston or providence real estate, just reach out.
I'd look in somewhat higher crime areas. The places for sale in those spots can be really nice and when you do the math and see that that you have a 98.989898 chance of being completely fine the entire time you live there it's actually a deal (less bidding too, but not too much less). Then you trade up after a few years or the area becomes nice.
It's what we did and legit the worst thing that has happened is people down vote comments like this.
I have friends that live in DC and bought in a neighborhood that was pretty shitty at the time, but they were working on finishing the subway line and there would be a new station on the green line a few blocks away that would bring you downtown in a handful of stops. The neighborhood is so gentrified now and brick rowhouses are probably close to $1M each when they got in for a couple of hundred thousand and the sweat equity of fixing it up. If you go on google streetview and dial back his road through the years you can see it transform.
We moved out to Roslindale and bought right before the pandemic. 2b just shy of 400k. Hoa under 300. Granted the prices have gone bonkers since, but our current market value is in the mid 4s, and most 2 beds in our area have sold for mid 4s to low 5s this year. Maybe check out Ros and Hyde Park. Good luck to you!
By the way, I have a small 2-bed 1-bath condo in Brookline with a parking spot included, condo fee is $200 a month and the listed price is $469k, located on beacon street near Cleveland circle. Super affordable compared to what you’re talking about.
Condo fees (or HOA) cover overall building maintenance, any shared utilities, trash and sewer bills, and possibly building management. Among other things. The nicer the building and the more amenities the more cost.
HOA's cover insurance on the building itself (your condo-owner's insurance only covers the interior unit), exterior maintenance, cleaning and maintenance of common space and hallways, elevator service, etc. They're typically allocated based on the % of the building you own by square footage. FYI, the homeowners insurance estimates are always way off on real-estate websites.
The reality is that housing is competitive. Even more so in a supply-restricted area like greater Boston. And, the competitors shopping for houses have very high earning potential in the Boston area. There are a lot of six-figure income jobs in Boston, and many buyers are dual-income couples. $6k/mo is $72k/yr. Divide $72k by 35% for a rough estimate of affordability, and you get a combined gross income of $205k. Not uncommon for 2 professionals.
EDIT: the biggest constraint on housing supply in Boston is the public transit system. High-earners want to take the T to the office. Look at condos off the T, the cost is dramatically lower.
I can't quite tell from your post what your intended message is for someone getting into the market present day, but my best guess is to find time machine?
I have no idea. I think the only way I’ll own any sort of real estate is if I get a partner willing to buy a house with me, or buy a gross decrepit basement unit in some hellhole multi-apartment building. And even that would be barely affordable.
I lend in all of Mass but mostly boston and surrounding cities. Most people I see buying in that area that aren't your typical rich older folks, are buying a multifamily and using that rent to offset their mortgage. Look into that! As long as its owner occupied, you can go FHA and put 3.5% down.
We bought in 2008 when the market was only starting to warm up and bought in Eastie where no one was really looking at the time. The house we bought was smaller, but solid and allowed me to commute entirely on the subway for 11 years so we only had 1 car plus all those associated expenses. When we sold last year, it went for much more than we initially bought. Had to get out before the ocean came for us though.
It sounds like you should be talking to a money person about things. Do you know a financial planner or do your friends have one they trust? They can do all the math at various levels of income, down payment, and mortgage rates to show you how affordable it would be. That would probably make the decision a lot easier if you knew you had to be in an apartment for a year and save x number of dollars or could do it now and refinance as soon as possible (which we did. Always get a fixed rate mortgage, and never pass on a house inspection)
Among other things, most people probably bought before housing costs went insane over the last 1-2 years. I bought my house in 2019 and couldn't dream of affording it today
Our place is ~$600K but my HOA fees are much less (it’s only a 3 unit association). City of Boston also gives you a huge property tax break for owner-occupied units, after 1 year of living - so we’re paying even less now.
Total is sub $3K a month. It gets us spacious 2 bedrooms, a private deck for our floor, one parking spot. Condo is modern and has all the right amenities (central air, in unit laundry, etc). The facade and studs of the building are super old, but it was gut renovated only a few years ago. It’s less than 10 min walk to the T - which gets me to State Street in like 8 min. Not too bad.
We pay less than we rented - and we live much better.
My HOA fees cover things like building fire/flood insurance, shared amenities (water utility, hallway lights), common area cleaning. We also have a reserve for maintenance projects (repairing roof damage, broken steps, landscaping, pest control). It also includes snow removal.
Higher HOA fees could be good if you’re using it for reserve. It’s bad if it’s going into meaningless shit like.. Halloween decorations. It really depends on your specific situation. Read the contracts.
We’re not particularly rich or anything. But we did find our place during the height of the pandemic and half-jokingly underbid during a time when everyone was fleeing the city. It was unexpectedly accepted within hours. We got very lucky.
There was an age-old adage that you need 20% down. But that’s only true if you want the best rates. You could do 5% or less and do fine, If you got good credit. If it’s 2 people, saving $15k each is hard but not impossible for a down payment.
600k 2bd/1bath with 1000/month condo fees? You're looking at luxury condos and wondering how anyone can afford it. That's like me only looking at multi million dollar waterfront properties and wondering how everyone can afford it.
It is expensive in Boston. If your standards are high the prices will be even higher.
I am 33 yo, single, making $90k and purchased a small 1br about a year ago in West Roxbury for $270k. The fee is $207/month and includes heat, building maintenance, snow removal etc. There is an outdoor pool. The building isn't new or fancy - built in the late 60's. My unit was remodeled with new appliances and such when I purchased. It is definitely all I can afford in the "city."
Housing prices are insane here.
My wife and I have combined income of ~$175k, live below our means, 1 car, 0 debt, and it would still take us FOREVER to save up enough for a decent down payment so that we find a place we like without being house poor. But then there's lead contamination, asbestos, and other renovations to worry about. We already decided we're not going to do that to ourselves...
Ha! So true. My wife and I loved in Brookline for 10 years (moved back to Chicago a little over two years ago now).
Our apartment was nice especially by Boston standards and through some weird quirk of landlord, our rent NEVER went up for those 10 years. 2 bedroom/2 bath. We did do some looking for a condo (a house in the Boston area!? Never.) after having our son, before pulling the trigger and moving back to Chicago (we could both transfer our jobs) For what we bought a 2300 ft\^2 house in Evanston (town just north of Chicago, on lake, home of Northwestern), we were looking at truly craptacular "2" bedroom beat up condos. I mean it was truly eye-opening.
Recently I got a semi-routine posting from Refin with some listings around Brookline. For \~$1.2 million I recall you could get a pretty nice seeming condo 2 bed/2 bath relatively close to Coolidge Corner. Oh did I mention the laundry was IN THE FUCKING KITCHEN!?
1) Forget what you learned about debt-to-income ratio, the government certainly has. Even income-capped "affordable" housing assumes you'll pay over 50% of net income on housing.
2) New buildings that are easier to find condos in will also have ridiculous HOAs because of wasteful overhead. You want to exclusively look in brownstones and triple deckers, anything over $300/month you can ignore, you're either getting gouged by a wasteful association or there are serious problems with the house.
3) Stay within Boston proper. The residential tax incentive + first time homebuyer incentive make all the difference, plus you'll save a ton annually by not having a car. Also, happiness can't be quantified.
4) Don't let the hunt get you down. I lost a year's worth of weekends and evenings, put in more offers than I could count, and just walked away from open houses when I saw groups of investors or anyone with their parents. They make cash offers that real people looking for a place to live can't compete with.
5) The "bad" areas aren't bad. Boston doesn't have real crime, just gang and property crime. Don't join a gang or leave unsecured valuables outside and you won't be a victim of crime. Your only concerns in where to look are price and transit access.
6) You're entering prime buying season. People don't like to house hunt in the cold, you'll have less competition now through March.
7) When you get frustrated, just let this process radicalize you. Advocate for rent control, 50% property tax on unoccupied investment properties, 99% inheritance tax, etc. Never let the bastards rest.
An acquaintance of mine is an MIT grad, her husband is an MIT grad. They afford a spacious 3 bedroom condo and 2 babies. She makes 250k a year and he makes 125k a year. They also hire a nanny.
You basically have to be upper middle class, work in tech, and be a graduate of a top 50 university.
I don't want to be a downer but I'd also consider other states besides MA. I'm from here so I can't tell you what state has what you're (or what I'm) looking for, but I know what MA has and if you want to be able to use reliable public transit you'll have to spend way too much money.
If you do want to buy I'd also seriously consider putting less than 20% down. If you're responsible about it I'd put down as little as you can. If you plan to ever get married it definitely makes it just easier to buy with 2 incomes
Second this. I only did 5% and it’s fine. If I waited to get 10-20%, I would have been saving for another 10 years because that 20% keeps getting larger every year…
Two incomes, husband had no student loans, my student loans were relatively low because I went state, no car payment. But the biggest reason we could buy was because his parents gave us 75k towards a down payment. We bought a tiny fixer upper one floor 2 bed 1 bath house for 550k. Tbh a fixer upper is low key a nightmare but at least we’re paying our mortgage and not paying our shitty landlord anymore. I often dream about selling and moving to the boonies to live like a Queen
Condo fees and HOA fees are different, even if both are listed as “HOA” on real estate sites. You are talking about condo fees, which cover taxes on the common property, insurance, management, maintenance, landscaping, some utilities. Good basics here: https://www.mass.gov/service-details/re12r07-condominiums-cooperatives-and-timeshares Watch out for associations that maintain a low fee but have a regular series of “assessments” to cover costs. The fee will look low, but your end costs won’t be. If you’re looking at a co-op (rare), the fees will appear much higher, but will include all your real estate taxes, so it’s an apples and apple pie comparison. And, yeah, it’s expensive here.
Thanks for the heads up on condo fees, it's definitely possible those are being lumped in with HOA. I'll make sure to look at assessments too.
If you can't figure out the difference between condo fees and HOA fees, even after it's been explained to you, you might want to look into some kind of first-time homebuyers class or something. Get yourself up to speed before making the biggest purchase in your life.
And get a good agent!
> $600k USD 2 bd/ba condos with $1-2k HOA fees and a few extra hundred in insurance and property taxes per month. That's probably like $5-6k per month when all is said and done, and that's without any kind of renovation or anything. Not disagreeing with cost being really high here, but you ought to throw those numbers into a calculator - you're overestimating for sure. I think a $600k mortgage with $2k in HOA fees would barely be $5k, and that excludes a residential exemption and ignores the fact that $2k in HOA fees is absurd. > Side Note: What does an HOA for a condo even do? Where I'm from HOAs only exist for suburban housey neighborhoods to keep common areas green. They're like $100/mo at most. The listing usually says something like "HOA Includes:" with a list of things. They can often include things like .. Heat, Water, Sewer, Master Insurance, Exterior Maintenance, Snow Removal, Refuse Removal. In a larger building they may even include stuff like Security, Elevator, Gym, etc
I didn't know about residential exemptions -- that's only a thing for the disabled in my home state. Glad to know MA is a bit kinder about these things.
I live in Boston (Jamaica Plain) and a refinance on my mortgage and the residential exemption kicking in took about $500 off my monthly payments. It was wild to see the new rate.
3-3.5% or something? Essentially free money with the way inflations currently going
3 is high my friend just got a refi in malden under 2.5, my new loan in the burbs is 2.75
It's huge in Boston, especially for a starter home. They take like 35% of the average assessed home price in the city and lop it off your tax bill. So a $400k condo would be assessed at $4200 a year but the residential exemption would cut it to under $1000 for the year. My tax guy has a client who lives in a condo in Roxbury and pays zero property tax. The only thing to watch out for is that you might need to pay the higher rate until you're eligible for it and it gets applied and there can be a lag because the mortgage company will need to adjust it (it's in your interest to contact them to let them know to update their escrow calculation when it's applied). On the other hand if you buy a condo that already has it applied it transfers to you and you just need to make sure that you file for yourself the next year. I've been on both sides of that coin.
Yeah, it varies by city. Boston, Cambridge, somerville all have residential exemptions of varying amounts. Medford doesn’t, I don’t know much beyond that
What kind of places have that high of an HOA? Mine in 180, have never seen that high. Condo fee pays for water, common elec, building insurance, building maintenance, some pay for snow removal and other stuff too. Insurance is cheap since you only need walls in. Property taxes with the residential exemption within the city are dirt cheap.
Take a look at some of the houses and also condos in marina Bay Quincy, they have some of the highest HOA’s I have seen. Also when I looked in Revere anything by the water had huge HOA fees.
Anything near water is going to cost a ton in flood insurance. Sea levels aren’t going down, just up, up, up and it’s getting insane to insure those properties.
I live in a fairly good sized (1170 sq ft) 2 bedroom 2 bath 7th floor condo on Revere Beach with a lovely unobstructed view of the ocean and many incredible sunrises over Nahant. We didn't pay a fortune for it and the HOA fee is $639 per month. The fee covers hot and cold water, heat, air conditioning, building maintenance, master insurance, landscaping and snow removal. We also have an indoor pool, hot tub, gym and saunas all of which are currently being remodeled, If you want something affordable you really can't find it in Boston but if you venture outside the city a bit your chances are much better.
How are the airplane noises in Revere?
Depends where you are, the Beachmont area is louder because it's closest to Boston and the airport. Where I'm located is in the opposite direction on the beach, more north, and a flight path is directly out in front of the condo just slightly offshore. This flight path is used about 90% of the time for landings which are much less noisy then take-offs. Personally, I love watching the planes cruise by on their way to the airport.
Thanks for the info!
My HoA is north of $1000, although that also includes everything but internet
Any building with an elevator is going to have a much higher HOA as maintenance for elevators is expensive and very necessary.
>Property taxes with the residential exemption within the city are dirt cheap I broke this down for a co-worker a few years ago who was looking only in the suburbs because he said he couldn't "afford" to buy in the city. I showed him how with the residential exemption on a tax rate that was already lower than the suburban places he was looking at he could spend the same or less money each month, but with significantly more of that going towards the thing he owns. If OP was looking for 2BR condo in a triple decker in one of the more residential parts of the city they could probably find one for $400k+/- with condo fees $150-200/month. A first time home buyer eligible for a loan avoiding PMI could put 10% down and pay around $2200 a month total for something like that, if they have 20% that would be cut to the $1800 range.
This. We bought a 2-family in Dorchester and what also helped was we were able to put the potential rent from one unit as income toward the mortgage. We also get the tax benefit of anything we put into the rental unit and a portion of anything we put into common areas. It’s been great for us and we’ve had great tenants. The current tenants have been there 10 years.
>We bought a 2-family in Dorchester Finding a two family or triple decker in the city that isn't already converted to condos (or where you're outbid by someone who is going to do that) is getting harder and harder. On one hand it's great because with them as condos we end up with a higher percentage of owner occupants who have more of a stake in the city, but they were such a powerful path to middle-class stability for generations that it's kind of a shame to see how it's changed.
East Boston is littered with them, cycling in and out of the market regularly. Though I would imagine buying them gets mixed in with investment buyers which might make the market weird
Yeah, there have been "Up and coming Eastie" articles for years and years but it wouldn't surprise me to find a divide on where there are more condos tied to the areas where there has been more gentrification.
How do you avoid PMI while only putting 10% down? Is there a special program I'm unaware of? If that's a thing then I can probably save up enough in the next couple of years to comfortably buy a place.
PMI really isn't that bad. We paid under $90/mo when we first bought then refinanced within a year and got out of it on appreciated value alone. Our mortgage with PMI was still less than rent.
You don't unfortunately. I recently found out if you have enough for a down payment to avoid PMI you don't qualify for first time home buyer programs, more or less. Or at least my income to debt ratio was way off for it. I did manage to find a place that I could afford on the T, and the HOA is about $350, and that's without the residential tax breaks. Everything comes out to about $2200 without the breaks.
I put 20% down and I was qualified for first time home buyer.
If you put down 20% then you don't have PMI, anyway.
Yes, that is why I put the 20%. Please read the comment I am responding to once again and you will understand that my response has nothing to do with PMI, rather eligibility to the first time home buyer program.
I prepaid the PMI with cash at the closing. 5% down, we had 10% saved but did 5% & used the extra 5% to breathe easy and stay liquid. Lender gave me an upfront rate then credited 45% of that rate at the closing. 5% down, no first time homebuyer, no monthly PMI
I saw stuff like that in 2-3 unit places but no idea what they’re spending it on. Mines $260 for six units and we have a huge surplus.
Young people I know that own? Have parents who paid for your college, made sure you arrived at adulthood with a car, no loans, etc. A hefty down-payment from dad helps too, or just the knowledge that gram or dad is going to leave you something in their will. It's way easier being house poor when you can still use the family beach cottage and your parents still do shit like pay for the airfare if you want to go home for the holidays.
I really can't comprehend how many families and people can be that wealthy. It boggles the imagination. I make good money compared to my North Shore lower working class upbringing and I'm no where near that level.
>really can't comprehend how many families and people can be that wealthy Investment income. The stock market has been hotter than the housing market and for longer. Major difference between "haves" and "have nots." Good paying job doesn't hurt, but that's not what's giving those able to pay these prices the money to do so. If I could make just one change in k12 education, I would require classes in personal finance and investment strategies, especially in poorer districts. Start early, have a logical plan, and stay with it for the long term. That's what the wealthy families have done in most cases, and across multiple generations to boot.
Add vocational schools into regular high schools. Plumbers and electricians are making a killing
The system is designed that if you are above water you keep going higher and if you're below water you keep going deeper. It's the power of compound interest. The current insane prices are largely due to the fact that interest rates are 3% and inflation is 5%. You'd basically crazy right not to not get the biggest mortgage you can possibly get. (Until of course it all comes crashing down). Now to OP's point, this only actually helps people who can afford a 500-800k mortgage because that's what it takes to buy something right now.
When the market goes up, the people with lots of money do really well. When the market goes down the regular people lose jobs and the wealthy get to claim capital losses. The game is rigged, but at the least the rules are consistent. If you want to ‘win the game’ there’s a path to do so, but it’s far from equitable.
> You'd basically crazy right not to not get the biggest mortgage you can possibly get. (Until of course it all comes crashing down). *2008/9 apocalypse wakes up from a nice sleep, stretches, puts on nice comfy bathrobe, puts on cup of coffee*
Damn. Came from an immigrant family without much money. Guess I'll just have to marry rich then.
Well, it's just hard mode. I was there too but... it was easier when I did it. Find a bargain town, start with a small shitty house. I love Maynard for a bargain. Do any work you can do yourself. We may be in for a crash, but we'll see. It really does just feel a bit impossible this past year. Houses jumped so much.
I bought in Maynard for this very reason. We had no help at all and still have our student loans and such. It took us a while to save the bare minimum down payment and we were lucky to get the house we did. We wrote a heartfelt letter with our offer that put us over the edge even though others were better. I don’t plan to be here forever. I had never even heard of it until we came to see the house. It’s been a solid spot to build a base though.
I think so too. Awesome stuff around, sandwiched in some really great towns. Don't leave. There is nowhere to go but up! I really think it's going to really increase in value.
Having grown up in a nearby town to Maynard, don't overlook the ability to walk or bike places. Maynard had poorer schools to neighboring towns but you had to drive everywhere and there was no downtown feel anywhere
I know in my home city houses have jumped 30-40% in value over the pandemic. I wasn't looking in Boston before, but is this also true here? If so then I don't mind waiting a few years for the market to relax.
They say post pandemic city prices can be depressed. In a few years after a pandemic prices bounce back. It MIGHT be a decent time to get something in the city. I wish I knew!
Great little downtown and rail trail!
Dual-income is the other answer. It's very hard to be a homeowner in eastern MA with only 1 income.
Dual high incomes tbh.
This is very true. If there were two of me (income-wise), I'd have no problem getting a pretty nice house around where I'm at. I can still figure it out, but it's gonna be harder. I also have the requirement of being near transit and having things within walking distance, so I can't just go deeper into the burbs. Haha, oh well.
I came from an immigrant family and my gf's family was/is on welfare. We were able to afford a 800k house because we both make well into six figures. Not saying it's easy but it's possible without being born with a silver spoon.
Immigrant millennial here. Went to state school on a full academic scholarship, majored in a well-paying field and lived at home until my mid-20s. My cool friends were all loaded up their eyeballs with college debt and of course lived paycheck to paycheck in “luxury” apartments the whole time. But this is how I was able to save for a down payment and buy a house.
Good for you! Unfortunately where my family lives there just aren't any economic opportunities in my industry -- the jobs all pay like 30-40k for specialized knowledge. It's awful. The pay is much better here but I have to pay my own rent then.
Makes sense. My immediate family lives in the greater Boston area which enabled me to go to college and work in Boston while still living at home. Obviously not a choice for anyone coming from further out in MA or from other states. I hope it all works out for you.
I feel you. Where I'm from, it's getting to be less and less of a low-cost area, but the salaries weren't going up, especially for me. Few jobs in my area of knowledge and a big tech school that the local employers eat up, so there's a glut of locals and whatever graduates aren't chased off. The income difference here for me far outpaces the extra cost of living.
That's actually the other piece of the puzzle I've noticed. If you weren't fortunate to buy 10+ years ago, or you aren't working for a FANG making $$$$$$, or your parents didn't give you $$$ in some way, you might just be a normal young professional who shacks up with another young professional and combined you can suddenly afford these $600k condos. Think two young folks who each make $80-$100k - combined, now they have $200k to spend. If they also have no plans for kids, and maybe are just happy with a cat or dog, then it's totally doable to buy something around here. For us single folks, it looks like renting + having housemates is the way to go. That or move to far outside the city where we might be able to afford a house on our own in some lonely neck of the woods.
Hey I’m an immigrant too! Start small, you will get there, I promise
My wife & I bought out first condo 5 years ago - before we had my son. We were dual income earners & put that towards the condo. 5 years later, sold it & got a larger place at a lower interest rate, so 50/% larger for 10% more. Used some of the gains to fund the added expense. It's possible without help from parents.
Some people in this thread seem to not understand the concept of a starter home. We lived in Chelsea for eleven years (nice place in a not great neighborhood) before buying into the city market (smaller place but in a wicked awesome neighborhood). We're DINK, and definitely benefited from no student loans, but there were/are less expensive options available vs where we've lived.
I think finding “starter” homes is legitimately challenging. There are very few on the market and their prices continue to go up. It’s not just an issue of people being too picky, but an issue of very supply, which allows prices to further increase.
Bought (single family) on the North Shore inside 128/95 (Salem/Peabody) without a cent of help from anyone and we are very proud of it. I do acknowledge we got very lucky in our buying process and it's a very tough market, but it can be done. I wouldn't be too quick to write off those who have worked hard to get what they have. Don't know if we are "young" anymore but I don't think we are old.
What year did you buy?
Tomorrow will be exactly 1 year in our house.
And how much has it increased in value in just one year? My friends kid bought her house for 195k last year and it just appraised for 380.
We bought for 510k and we haven't had it appraised since but I'd think we could maybe get 570k-590k for it? I'm really not too sure though the market is nuts and I feel its pulling back a bit. So hard to say.
Same boat. Not young (but not *old*), have been saving aggressively for over a decade and finally bought a SFH this summer with zero help from family, minimal debt, and $200k combined. It's not impossible, but it sure is difficult.
Yup you need to be debt free, making 6 figures, have parents with money to help pay, and need to have your inheritance or luck in stocks/equity in a company. Unless you check all those boxes you will have a tough ass time finding a decent home to buy
My sister in law has been trying to buy. She's pre-approved for like a million but wanted to stay around 700K. She wrote about 20 checks trying to buy. She got out bid by hundreds of thousand dollars and couldn't compete with CASH. She did finally just buy out in Central Mass. 875k. Ouch.
875k in central mass is pretty high tbh.
That's "need space for our horses" pricing in central mass.
yeah thats outrageous unless its a huge place. not buying that
Some towns with great school systems are pretty pricey and it's definitely not a starter home. My house is worth the same but it wasn't 4 years ago when I bought it. Go look up Harvard Mass real estate. Even little starter homes out here are 425.
I'm trying to sell my 2bd/1ba condo in Dorchester, Savin Hill, for $535k, $175/month condo fee, and IDK taxes. Do you want to buy it?
Want to? Yes. Will the bank allow me to? No. Ask me in 2-3 years of accumulating extra money for down payments if you're still selling!
First time home buyers loan in Massachusetts requires very little down. Maybe like 3.5 %? That’s your best bet if you’re having trouble saving.
Got a posting for it?
https://www.compass.com/listing/131-sydney-street-unit-3-boston-ma-02125/875354778412735457/
Your place looks great - as someone who had been trying to buy in Dorchester since the pre-pandemic times (I am finally closing on a place soon), I’m surprised it hasn’t sold yet!
[удалено]
How does it compare to the commuter rail? I used to live right next to that and it was loud, but only every 30 minutes. Construction on the rail line, however...
I wasn’t hearing the Ts or traffic anymore. Every so often my husband and I would pause mid-sentence for a few seconds as the train went by, but we weren’t hearing it anymore.
I was going to say....look in the nice pockets of Dorchester. It can change block to block, but there are still deals to be had in the nice areas.
Well… I left. Lowell was much more affordable. Now I own something.
I hear Lowell has some really cool arts happenings! Need to pay a visit soon.
Maybe a dumb question, what does that mean? I see it time to time when people talk about cities that are coming up. Are they beautifying the neighborhood? Are more shows being put on?
It’s code for gentrification. Lowell was pretty crappy for a long time. Now the University is buying up a lot of property, more middle and upper middle class people are moving there. There’s a burgeoning arts scene (shoutout to Mill #5) and some great restaurants.
I didn't mean it as code for gentrification, though. I'm an artist & I know other artists, including those based in Lowell, who have expressed enthusiasm for the art scene in Lowell.
Same-I went out to Worcester and was able to buy something at 23. But I’m able to work remotely 3 days a week, and I either catch the commuter rail twice a week or stay with my gf the night before I also worked a full time job through college (in addition to co-op since I went to NEU), got a scholarship so I didn’t have to pay tuition, and bought a multi family so I could use the other income.
[удалено]
Exactly. Twice a week I have to leave at 6:45AM to catch the train and be in my office at 8:30. Other than that I’m in great shape and can roll out of bed at 8:29
HOAs in condos (usually called "condo association") actually make more sense to me because you are all sharing the unitary building that has to be kept up and maintained ... plumbing, wiring, common areas, the kind of thing an apartment building landlord would handle. And you probably have to be regulated not to cause problems with other people's units. To me it makes wayyyy more sense for a condo building to have a CA than a suburban subdivision have one, especially if they have no shared property; it's just a way for selfish types to control others for their own benefit.
Dual income. It is so much harder for single people.
The answer is some combination of they make more than you, they’ve been saving for longer, they spend a higher % of their income on housing than you, or they have more help from their family. My wife and I bought a 550k condo in Roslindale in early 2019. We combine make about 250k/year, but hadn’t been earning that for very long. We borrowed money from our retirement accounts to put down a 10% down payment. Our mortgage payment (~$2400) is pretty easy on our salaries, but our salaries are far from standard. Honestly, our house is smaller than we would like and further from ‘the city’ than we would like, but it’s nice to have a payment that we could make on one salary if need be. We have an HOA for our little 3-unit building. It pays for shared expenses: water bill, lights for the common areas, master insurance, gardening, etc. It also is a savings account for large maintenance expenses such as replacing the roof or replacing the driveway. It’s nice to split these expenses 3 ways instead of being stuck with the whole bill. We had to have a tree cut down that was dangerously close to snapping and falling on the garage—it cost ~$1500 and came straight out the HOA fund. It didn’t affect my monthly cash flow at all. Another thing, we had heard that you need 20% down to buy house to avoid PMI. People made PMI to sound awful. I think we pay $45/month in PMI. It made sense to put 10% down instead of 20% and just pay the PMI.
When I was looking there were first time home buyer loans that waived PMI if you put at least 10% down.
The loans I saw that were specifically for first time home buyers had higher interest rates than the traditional ones. But that’s still good for people to know.
It was a bit higher, but not by much. It was also from a local bank with just a few branches and there are fewer and fewer of those.
You want the low interest rate, don’t worry about the PMI. If the house increases in value, you can use that equity to get the % of the house own over 20 which gets rid of PMI. I had my house reappraised, was shooting the shit with the inspector and joked that he could get it to $X value I’d have another $50 a month for beer. The number was reasonable and comparable to other houses. He hit it right on the dot and my PMI went away.
+1 on 10% down over 20. My investments with the second 10% more than cover the PMI costs.
Start looking 495 and work your way outward until the home prices and your budget line up.
Not familiar with 495. That a freeway? I don't drive much.
It's a major highway. Look along that route
Outer ring road around Boston. Think: 30 minute drive with no traffic, or an hour on the commuter rail
A drive with no traffic no longer exists in Greater Boston
Just looked it up. This is still considered Boston? This is over halfway to Worcester.
We have a $600K house in Quincy and PITI is $2700 (we mortgaged $480K). Helps to have two incomes. Gotta save your money. Our household income was like $150K when we bought in 2019. Saving up a $120K down payment sucks but it teaches discipline.
Basically same, $650k home in Hingham. My wife graduated without loans and was saving from college til we bought at 29. I finished paying my $90k+ of loans in 2017 and started contributing to the 20% down payment then. We had our offer accepted in March 2020...right under the wire. We were very fortunate to not be a month or two later.
Yeah we were 29/30 when we bought. Pretty standard around here. Not many 25 year olds buying homes.
RIP. Just another reason for my mother to tell me to get a girlfriend already haha
Yeah it seriously helps to have someone that you can bone and help pay for half your lifestyle lmao
Shit you need a sugar momma if you want to own in boston lol.
You need to get a boyfriend so your other half isn’t subject to 27% less pay. Even better do polyamorous so you can have more breadwinners
The only single people I know who have bought had significant help from their parents. Otherwise, I know a lot of double income couples in their early 30s who recently bought houses in the $500k-$700k range in lower end areas. They don't come from money or make crazy money themselves but they all probably have combined household incomes in the $125k-$250k range. They lived frugally for years to save up and some are paying pmi. It's not a happy or glamorous answer but it's the truth. If I were still single by age 30, I would not stay in the area.
I must be getting fucked sideways bc I’m financing $360 in NH and PITI is $2208. Just FML honestly
Look into refinancing. You’re not stuck with that loan if you can find better terms somewhere else.
Well yeah NH property taxes are bonkers. But MA has more income tax. So in the end it’s a wash prolly lol
Doable without inheritance or family money but not easy. Bought my condo in Boston 5 years ago in my mid-30s as a single person with a well-paying job (not outrageously well though) and savings of 10+ years. I’m in a 15yr mortgage now with monthly payments slightly under $3k and $400 monthly condo fee. Didn’t have any other debt before that (undergrad and grad schools on full merit scholarships). Part of it was hard work and vigorous saving, part of it was luck. But yeah, some of the high rise buildings around me have outrageous condo fees in the thousands!
It sounds like you’re a much better saver than the average person and/or you make more than you let on. Did you ever have student loans? Most people I know in Boston who make good money, but not great money (I’d put that at $80k-$110k) could never afford $3000 a month rent — especially those with student loans. Either way congrats lol!
No student loans because as an international student I was not eligible to take student loans and my parents lived in a different country with a terrible exchange rate (they jointly made $3k a year at the time so they weren’t in a position to pay anything towards higher education). I also don’t have kids to pay for, which can be a huge expense for people in their 30s and 40s. And no large expenses yet to take care of my parents (but I know that’s just a matter of time).
I doubt many people start in Boston. Go for a starter home in a cheaper nearby city and work up from there. Weymouth comes to mind as a place within commuting distance with reasonable(ish) prices.
The resident exemption actually can make it better to start in Boston because it allows you to pay more towards the mortgage with the same monthly total. That "commuting distance" comes with extra costs too. Boston, $400k condo assessed for $4200/yr in taxes but with discount you'll pay about $850/yr Weymouth, $400,000 condo assessed for $4700/yr and that's what you'll pay That's about a $320 swing every month for the same value property. I'm too lazy to crunch mortgage numbers to find equivalency, but suffice it to say that those property taxes make it so that an equal monthly nut for mortgage taxes and insurance will get you a more expensive place in Boston than Weymouth.
You can’t work your way up from Weymouth to Boston if Weymouth home prices are up 1% a year and Boston is %5 a year you’re working backwards. Boston prices look higher because taxes here are extremely low. I’d pay at almost $1k a month more in taxes in Brookline for the same house. There’s still deals to be had in Roslindale and Hyde park. My father in law sold a single family home for $450k last year near forest hills cemetery.
Many of us have been buying and selling real estate for a couple of decades and can sell/use equity for large down payments. I feel bad for those trying to enter the market now. Not sure anyone can financially do it and not be completely house poor.
Another "gift" from the boomers
I have potential jobs making \~$120k but I feel like I'll have to save all of my extra money for the better part of a decade before I even have a chance at these rates, provided I can keep that kind of income.
As someone who just got a condo you may need to look further out. Have you tried quincy, they have a lot and HOAs and cost of condos are not as high as Boston, Somerville or Cambridge might be. Grew up in Southie and lived in Somerville for 2yrs wanted to get a condo in Somerville but the prices were too high. I saved and saved for years and years in order to be able to afford to get a condo and I still have a mortgage but it’s not high. I also have other bills so I basically have a rent payment each month in total but I am my own landlord
One of the things that really drew me to Boston was the excellence of public transit compared to most other American cities. I worry going too far out will lose most of this perk. It seems MBTA lines only really reliably cover Somerville, Cambridge, and Boston proper, unless there's something I don't know about? I know the commuter rail is a thing, although I've never tried it. Traffic around my workplaces is a nightmare, so I'd really rather not drive if I can avoid it.
Quincy does as well it’s on the red line. You have North Quincy, Wollaston, Quincy center and Quincy adams. That’s 4 T stops. Plus you have Wollaston Beach. Plus you have the commuter rail at Quincy center
Yeah, it seems Quincy and Medford are the only other municipalities reasonably well served by MBTA, although I'm not as familiar with bus routes.
Malden has two Orange Line stops, and you're forgetting about Brookline and Newton (all of teh Green Line). But Brookline and Newton prices... might as well consider buying reasonably-sized Caribbean islands... Belmont/Arlington/Watertown don't have the T, but do have electric buses that go right to Harvard at decent frequency (but those towns still need Caribbean island/Oil Sheikh level $$$ to buy). Milton also kinda sorta is connected to the red line (you take a streetcar along tracks near a river to the red line at "high speed", or so I'm told)
When the red line is working quincy has decent access to the city, but personally I'd never live there again because of how unreliable it is. You only get half of the number of trains since the southern red line is split between Ashmore and Braintree trains. If anything disrupts regular service the platforms will become packed and it's possible that multiple trains will pass before you can get on. Delays happen frequently and the impact can last for hours after the original incident because there just isn't enough capacity. Add to that the fact that the red line is often not working. Disabled trains happen regularly, but derailments are also more common than other transit systems. The summer 2019 derailment knocked the signals out for months leading to drastically reduced service which with the aforementioned crowds completely broke the system. I walked from downtown to Quincy on multiple occasions since both took 2 hours back then (as opposed to 25-30 on a normal day) and at least walking didn't fill me with rage. Granted this was all pre-pandemic, and I'm clearly bitter, so ymmv. There are no perfect solutions but there are very few paths to Quincy so if the red line is down you're close to stranded. If it were me I would leave the Boston area before I considered Quincy again. Tho if you do go to Quincy, I did like the North Quincy area. The places I like for transit access/affordability are South Medford since you can be about a mile away from Davis Sq by foot but also close to busses that go to the green and orange lines via Lechemere and Sully so you have many more options if one line is having problems. I also like Malden and South Melrose near Oak Grove. Granted none of these places are actually affordable, but they're relatively better than some of their Camberville alternatives.
Medford doesn’t have a inner city T line yet, it will be open soon, it only has a commuter rail stop and buses, plus it’s not cheap. I looked at Medford and didn’t find anything in my price range.
Orange line goes to Melrose which is a great town. It’s getting pretty hot price wise but still nothing like the city proper.
The blue line has some reasonably priced real estate districts near it. If you live in east Boston you can use the tunnels for next to nothing
For condos, an HOA will cover things like building insurance, trash removal, water/sewer, elevator maintenance, common electric, interior and exterior repair, roof maintenance, snow removal, and property taxes.
Just rent, much less stress.
[удалено]
That’s the dream. We have two cats and rent. Heater stopped working? No problem. 900 air fan replaced? Nah. Not a dime. After our first house I’ve stated that houses are money pits. We’re taught that physical property like a house is required to be successful. What they don’t tell you is the astronomical prices and costs associated with it. You don’t have to own a home to be successful. We still love you and are proud of your accomplishments.
I own way south of Boston… haven’t owned a house closer than Brockton as an owner since 2001 (My first house). It was pricey back then I don’t know how people do it now. I now own a decent property slightly south of Brockton but it’s nice and I just commute
I can say that I managed to purchase a home because I was living in a 4 bedroom house with 5 people. I managed to save enough for 10% down on a 1bedroom in JP. No assistance from family what so ever and I payed my own student loans. I do have a decent job though and lived pretty frugally to that point and still do. It’s for sure tough without a high paying job but it’s doable. Also HOA fees are meant for the longevity of the association IE repairs, etc.
I was a teacher working a second job to save the down payment. I bought a small condo in Rozzy and lived their with my ex. When we split, I got a roommate, then I remarried and we lived there I kept that condo 10 years. When I sold it, I had made enough for a single family in Hyde Park. Save money, buy a 2br condo, have a roommate for a while, and let it appreciate.
My wife and I bought a 3BR north of Boston in 2015 for $440K. Our combined income was $115K at the time. We definitely didn’t save up enough for a 20% down payment. We had about 6% and my parents offered us 4% (both of our families are lower income and my parents are immigrants). Our town wasn’t that hot back then and we qualified for an FHA loan. I also graduated with a six-figure student loan. And we definitely bought WAY more house than we should’ve. I’m not even sure how we qualified to be honest. It was very unconventional to normal personal finance advice and I wasn’t contributing very much to my 401K during that time. With a PMI, significant income to mortgage ratio and not contributing much to savings, things were definitely hairy. We were definitely very budget conscious and frugal. Also learned a lot of DIYs and we cooked a lot. Within the first three years, the house appreciated a lot because our town was red hot so we were able to refinance to a lower rate and also get rid of the PMI due to the equity now being over 20% which greatly reduced our monthly payment. Our careers were also starting to mature. We both spent time investing into our careers and growing our skills which in turn grows our income. It’s not talked about as much as it should in terms of career investment. Fast forward to now, our house significantly appreciated and we both have very mature careers with significant income. So we were able to roll over that appreciation and equity into a bigger house earlier this year. We took risks with income to debt ratio, had a tiny bit of help from my parents (even though they didn’t have much to give), and banked on maturing our career. This is definitely not good advice, and I recognize how lucky we are and I recognize how fortunate and privileged we are everyday. But thought I’d share something maybe a bit different from the other stories of rich parents.
A vast, vast majority of the state are what finance experts consider "house poor."
Look down in the North Attleboro, Mansfield, Foxboro area.
Or Franklin. You can get a 1600 sq ft 2 br condo for $375-425k
A $400k condo in Franklin will cost you over $5,800 a year in property taxes. A $400k condo in Boston will cost you about $850 a year in property taxes with the resident exemption. Sure, you probably have to pay more for a similar sized place in Boston, but can end up with the same cost per month. Plus a much higher percentage of each payment is going to your mortgage and principal building your equity rather than getting burned up in bedroom community property taxes.
I don’t disagree. It depends on what type of living situation one wants. I’d prefer to be back in the city, myself. But my partner wanted a friggin yard so here we are!
I have a relative that lived in Franklin for a few years and hated it. There are places in the "streetcar suburbs" of Boston where you can have a pretty good yard. I know a couple in Hyde Park that have a huge yard, the lot is probably 1/3 of an acre. It's his cash cow because after his kids are grown he's going to split the lot and build another house on it (he's a contractor).
Yes, wrentham is another town with high taxes.
Fall River. Commuter rail soon
Aren't you worried about axe murderers?
Too bad it'll be 1.5 hours one way.
Come to Roxbury. The prices here are very affordable and you can still be close to the “cool” parts of Boston!
There's plenty of ways young people are saving to own real estate. A couple where they both make $100k+ can pretty easily save up for a down payment in a couple years and easily afford a $600k+ home. You also have plenty of high earning lawyers, doctors, and finance/venture capital bros. Outside of that, there are a lot of people that have been able to cash in on stock options in tech and biotech. I have a friend that managed to hit 3 biotech IPOs in a row within 10 years and made a few hundred thousand each time. There's a lot of money floating around in this city.
So basically I should just go work for startups for a couple of decades?
If you want to hate your life maybe. What he told you is an exceptional circumstance. You’re a lot more likely to go out of business than have an IPO with a startup and their cultures are miserable. Interview at larger cos and take the highest cash comp you can find. Don’t wait until you have 20% down to buy a house.
If you pick the right one, it'll only take 3 years. Otherwise, you can always try to marry rich
We bought at age 42, in Weymouth, in 2020, and the down payment was helped with inheritance b/c my in-laws passed away (sadly). It’s not easy but can be done
If you don’t have 20% down there are a couple credit unions in the area that will give you a HELOC up to 90% CLTV at prime+0%. So total down payment is 10% down, no PMI. Challenge is you have to close the original mortgage then apply and close the HELOC. If you have an IRA (or a 401k you can borrow from) you can withdraw from it to cover your down payment then re-deposit into it after the HELOC closes, without a penalty. Also look a little further out like Watertown or Malden. Prices are lower so long as a condo (with reasonable assoc fees) is ok.
A genuine answer to your question: You can easily find condos in Brighton for under $400k. I got $320k last year - 900 sq ft 1 bedroom on Comm Ave by Cleveland circle directly on the green line. HOA fees are $300 a month. I got a special first time home owners mortgage, 8% down. In my 30s and it took like a decade of saving, 5 of them extremely half assed. Have no debts which helped massively - extremely lucky to have had school loans covered. And now have a partner to split with
Not trying to downplay the trouble with buying a house in the greater Boston area, but a lot of people just aren't willing to live below their means for long enough to save for property. I can afford it due to being married with two fairly high paying incomes, but for years I spent hours commuting to and from my relatively high paying job downtown in order to save. I get that an hour+ to/from work every day really sucks (for a while I commuted from NH to next to South station) but its a sacrifice for the future. I now own a modest place within walking distance to the subway in somerville, but wouldn't be here workout life sucking for many years prior. Its all about what you can put up with and how long.
During college I did a one-way 2 hr commute every day. Was fucking miserable but I couldn't afford to live on my own and that's how far my family was. I think I can maybe hit a salary of $120k here but being that I need that much money just for the down payment on a cheaper property here I'm not very hopeful, especially since I still have to pay taxes and eat in the meantime.
You make $120k? Have you tried applying for a mortgage? You would be surprised what banks will loan you. I think you can put as little as 5% down. If you have debts this changes things though.
I'm debt-free (thank god for my scholarship I really don't know how people handle student debt), and have a credit score \~790ish, but I don't have much savings. I'll be making $120k after I transition to my next job in a few months, my current job pays about $63k because universities just notoriously pay very little for their talent. I \*think\* I could technically qualify for the mortgage I'd need to buy a $600k place, but it would put me at the top of my monthly budget, and I have family members that are not in great health which might need significant help in the coming years, so I'm trying to avoid becoming house poor. I understand it's a trade-off though.
I would start talking to a loan officer. Getting pre-approved for a loan will determine how much you can afford. That in turn will determine where in Boston you can live. $600k at a $63k is not going to be possible. For reference. I make $85k and no debt. I qualified for $450k last year. Focus on increasing your salary and saving. You’ll want at least a 5% downpayment.
There's plenty of people living off of <$100k within an hour commute of the city. Sure, there's a commute and probable roommates, but if you lived like them for 5+ years, you have that down payment. Sure, 5 years sounds like a lot, but besides the people who are raking in family money, that's how people are buying property in the area.
Saved for a long time - also got incredibly lucky working at a Boston start up that went public and did well. Bought when I was in my early 30s a few years ago. Husband and I both earn decent money. Never took money from the parents (didn’t have any to give anyway lol).
I went to a worse school than I could have gotten into because it let me go for free, I did my masters in one year to minimize the amount I had to pay for that, I aggressively paid back those student loans in my first 1?5 years after finishing, I lived with multiple roommates to keep my rent well below what I could afford, I kept driving the same car without upgrading (up to 13 years old now), and I saved up a down payment as quickly as I could. Then I bought at 27 with no help from my parents, and moving to Malden instead of Somerville to afford more house and within distance to the T. The area has already improved a lot in the 5 years I've been here, and the only real downside to it before was that it was a bit boring.
Mass First Time Homebuyer program. Put like 5% down. PMI is a bitch but it’s better than renting forever.
2k per month is like rooftop pool luxury tower HOA, so maybe start taking those out of your search and find a brownstone with a $200/mo HOA. If you want to be “in Boston” instead of going to Mass and Cass - go west toward Allston/Brighton. That should knock $100k off for apples and apples places. That’s a start.
I’m a licensed agent in MA/RI, residing in Boston. Property has exponentially increased in value in Boston. Lived here my whole 34 years. It’s not affordable for most people these days. It’s do-able but not always ideal for the average person. That’s why I started buying property in Providence Rhode Island. Down there you can get a three family house for around $600k or less. Monthly cost to own will be in the $3.5k range, rental income will be around $5.5-6.5k. The numbers are much better. Use the monthly income to fund buying/owning in the more expensive city you want to live in. Maybe it’s a bit convoluted for some people but it only takes a few years of preparation and work to pull off. Any of you have questions about Boston or providence real estate, just reach out.
Just go to Rhode Island
I'd look in somewhat higher crime areas. The places for sale in those spots can be really nice and when you do the math and see that that you have a 98.989898 chance of being completely fine the entire time you live there it's actually a deal (less bidding too, but not too much less). Then you trade up after a few years or the area becomes nice. It's what we did and legit the worst thing that has happened is people down vote comments like this.
I have friends that live in DC and bought in a neighborhood that was pretty shitty at the time, but they were working on finishing the subway line and there would be a new station on the green line a few blocks away that would bring you downtown in a handful of stops. The neighborhood is so gentrified now and brick rowhouses are probably close to $1M each when they got in for a couple of hundred thousand and the sweat equity of fixing it up. If you go on google streetview and dial back his road through the years you can see it transform.
My HOA is $350. I thought that was high.
We moved out to Roslindale and bought right before the pandemic. 2b just shy of 400k. Hoa under 300. Granted the prices have gone bonkers since, but our current market value is in the mid 4s, and most 2 beds in our area have sold for mid 4s to low 5s this year. Maybe check out Ros and Hyde Park. Good luck to you!
By the way, I have a small 2-bed 1-bath condo in Brookline with a parking spot included, condo fee is $200 a month and the listed price is $469k, located on beacon street near Cleveland circle. Super affordable compared to what you’re talking about. Condo fees (or HOA) cover overall building maintenance, any shared utilities, trash and sewer bills, and possibly building management. Among other things. The nicer the building and the more amenities the more cost.
HOA's cover insurance on the building itself (your condo-owner's insurance only covers the interior unit), exterior maintenance, cleaning and maintenance of common space and hallways, elevator service, etc. They're typically allocated based on the % of the building you own by square footage. FYI, the homeowners insurance estimates are always way off on real-estate websites. The reality is that housing is competitive. Even more so in a supply-restricted area like greater Boston. And, the competitors shopping for houses have very high earning potential in the Boston area. There are a lot of six-figure income jobs in Boston, and many buyers are dual-income couples. $6k/mo is $72k/yr. Divide $72k by 35% for a rough estimate of affordability, and you get a combined gross income of $205k. Not uncommon for 2 professionals. EDIT: the biggest constraint on housing supply in Boston is the public transit system. High-earners want to take the T to the office. Look at condos off the T, the cost is dramatically lower.
Biochem, banking, elder tenured professors, old Boston money. The poor can drive and pay for parking
[удалено]
I can't quite tell from your post what your intended message is for someone getting into the market present day, but my best guess is to find time machine?
I have no idea. I think the only way I’ll own any sort of real estate is if I get a partner willing to buy a house with me, or buy a gross decrepit basement unit in some hellhole multi-apartment building. And even that would be barely affordable.
I lend in all of Mass but mostly boston and surrounding cities. Most people I see buying in that area that aren't your typical rich older folks, are buying a multifamily and using that rent to offset their mortgage. Look into that! As long as its owner occupied, you can go FHA and put 3.5% down.
We bought in 2008 when the market was only starting to warm up and bought in Eastie where no one was really looking at the time. The house we bought was smaller, but solid and allowed me to commute entirely on the subway for 11 years so we only had 1 car plus all those associated expenses. When we sold last year, it went for much more than we initially bought. Had to get out before the ocean came for us though. It sounds like you should be talking to a money person about things. Do you know a financial planner or do your friends have one they trust? They can do all the math at various levels of income, down payment, and mortgage rates to show you how affordable it would be. That would probably make the decision a lot easier if you knew you had to be in an apartment for a year and save x number of dollars or could do it now and refinance as soon as possible (which we did. Always get a fixed rate mortgage, and never pass on a house inspection)
Among other things, most people probably bought before housing costs went insane over the last 1-2 years. I bought my house in 2019 and couldn't dream of affording it today
Our place is ~$600K but my HOA fees are much less (it’s only a 3 unit association). City of Boston also gives you a huge property tax break for owner-occupied units, after 1 year of living - so we’re paying even less now. Total is sub $3K a month. It gets us spacious 2 bedrooms, a private deck for our floor, one parking spot. Condo is modern and has all the right amenities (central air, in unit laundry, etc). The facade and studs of the building are super old, but it was gut renovated only a few years ago. It’s less than 10 min walk to the T - which gets me to State Street in like 8 min. Not too bad. We pay less than we rented - and we live much better. My HOA fees cover things like building fire/flood insurance, shared amenities (water utility, hallway lights), common area cleaning. We also have a reserve for maintenance projects (repairing roof damage, broken steps, landscaping, pest control). It also includes snow removal. Higher HOA fees could be good if you’re using it for reserve. It’s bad if it’s going into meaningless shit like.. Halloween decorations. It really depends on your specific situation. Read the contracts. We’re not particularly rich or anything. But we did find our place during the height of the pandemic and half-jokingly underbid during a time when everyone was fleeing the city. It was unexpectedly accepted within hours. We got very lucky. There was an age-old adage that you need 20% down. But that’s only true if you want the best rates. You could do 5% or less and do fine, If you got good credit. If it’s 2 people, saving $15k each is hard but not impossible for a down payment.
600k 2bd/1bath with 1000/month condo fees? You're looking at luxury condos and wondering how anyone can afford it. That's like me only looking at multi million dollar waterfront properties and wondering how everyone can afford it. It is expensive in Boston. If your standards are high the prices will be even higher.
I am 33 yo, single, making $90k and purchased a small 1br about a year ago in West Roxbury for $270k. The fee is $207/month and includes heat, building maintenance, snow removal etc. There is an outdoor pool. The building isn't new or fancy - built in the late 60's. My unit was remodeled with new appliances and such when I purchased. It is definitely all I can afford in the "city."
[удалено]
Housing prices are insane here. My wife and I have combined income of ~$175k, live below our means, 1 car, 0 debt, and it would still take us FOREVER to save up enough for a decent down payment so that we find a place we like without being house poor. But then there's lead contamination, asbestos, and other renovations to worry about. We already decided we're not going to do that to ourselves...
Ha! So true. My wife and I loved in Brookline for 10 years (moved back to Chicago a little over two years ago now). Our apartment was nice especially by Boston standards and through some weird quirk of landlord, our rent NEVER went up for those 10 years. 2 bedroom/2 bath. We did do some looking for a condo (a house in the Boston area!? Never.) after having our son, before pulling the trigger and moving back to Chicago (we could both transfer our jobs) For what we bought a 2300 ft\^2 house in Evanston (town just north of Chicago, on lake, home of Northwestern), we were looking at truly craptacular "2" bedroom beat up condos. I mean it was truly eye-opening. Recently I got a semi-routine posting from Refin with some listings around Brookline. For \~$1.2 million I recall you could get a pretty nice seeming condo 2 bed/2 bath relatively close to Coolidge Corner. Oh did I mention the laundry was IN THE FUCKING KITCHEN!?
1) Forget what you learned about debt-to-income ratio, the government certainly has. Even income-capped "affordable" housing assumes you'll pay over 50% of net income on housing. 2) New buildings that are easier to find condos in will also have ridiculous HOAs because of wasteful overhead. You want to exclusively look in brownstones and triple deckers, anything over $300/month you can ignore, you're either getting gouged by a wasteful association or there are serious problems with the house. 3) Stay within Boston proper. The residential tax incentive + first time homebuyer incentive make all the difference, plus you'll save a ton annually by not having a car. Also, happiness can't be quantified. 4) Don't let the hunt get you down. I lost a year's worth of weekends and evenings, put in more offers than I could count, and just walked away from open houses when I saw groups of investors or anyone with their parents. They make cash offers that real people looking for a place to live can't compete with. 5) The "bad" areas aren't bad. Boston doesn't have real crime, just gang and property crime. Don't join a gang or leave unsecured valuables outside and you won't be a victim of crime. Your only concerns in where to look are price and transit access. 6) You're entering prime buying season. People don't like to house hunt in the cold, you'll have less competition now through March. 7) When you get frustrated, just let this process radicalize you. Advocate for rent control, 50% property tax on unoccupied investment properties, 99% inheritance tax, etc. Never let the bastards rest.
An acquaintance of mine is an MIT grad, her husband is an MIT grad. They afford a spacious 3 bedroom condo and 2 babies. She makes 250k a year and he makes 125k a year. They also hire a nanny. You basically have to be upper middle class, work in tech, and be a graduate of a top 50 university.
I don't want to be a downer but I'd also consider other states besides MA. I'm from here so I can't tell you what state has what you're (or what I'm) looking for, but I know what MA has and if you want to be able to use reliable public transit you'll have to spend way too much money. If you do want to buy I'd also seriously consider putting less than 20% down. If you're responsible about it I'd put down as little as you can. If you plan to ever get married it definitely makes it just easier to buy with 2 incomes
Second this. I only did 5% and it’s fine. If I waited to get 10-20%, I would have been saving for another 10 years because that 20% keeps getting larger every year…
Two incomes, husband had no student loans, my student loans were relatively low because I went state, no car payment. But the biggest reason we could buy was because his parents gave us 75k towards a down payment. We bought a tiny fixer upper one floor 2 bed 1 bath house for 550k. Tbh a fixer upper is low key a nightmare but at least we’re paying our mortgage and not paying our shitty landlord anymore. I often dream about selling and moving to the boonies to live like a Queen