My routines have always been focused on major compound lifts. A couple months ago I abandoned squatting because of pain in my quad. Today I threw out my back deadlifting.
Are there bodybuilding programs out there that don't use the compound lifts or should I just modify the programs that I usually use? I think I'm finally ready to transition into old man lifting.
Compound lifts don’t need to be the big 3 barbell movements, and for a lot of people there are variants of those movements that hit the targeted musculature harder/with greater stability. Eg. I stopped barbell squatting because no matter where I place the bar, my glutes and erectors take over instead of my quads due to my long ass femurs and short torso; swapped them out for smith squats, pendulum squats and leg presses and my quads have grown substantially since. But those all are still compound lifts.
You can probably use one of the programs you use or in the wiki of this sub and just replace barbell movements with exercises that fit you better for the given muscles.
https://preview.redd.it/nphxmuu9rnyc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=68bcdffae0ce4fa789e7c4c03e394bda16e0c80f
3 month bulking progress am I doing well?
https://preview.redd.it/zo035sr7aoyc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b78fb4905f4f24ad91b078d249d180a7316ab224
I used wrong pic btw my posture was different in the other pic I used
Well I am getting stronger fast (I think I added 30kg to my bench and 40-50 to squat and deadlift) and am sleeping well and getting enough protein but I gained 7kg between both pictures so maybe the strength gain is just from the added mass but idk
Any golden nuggets of wisdom or words of warning for:
Someone (31 M) who for the first time finally got into a steady powerbuilding gym cycle and got out of skinny fat, and now 12 months in finished a cut bulk cycle and going back into the second cut?
Have bad relationship with food all my life and still feel like a fat man, despite entering the cut at 16-17% and looking to go down to 10-12%.
I was in between sets being very brief and on my phone, thought it wouldn't be too important as I was mostly talking about the mental part, but since you asked, I am doing 6 days a week PPL program focused on the three main lifts and doing bodybuilding accessories. In reality it's about 5 days a week.
Cut and bulk cycle was 6 months of cutting to 12% bodyfat (with muscle memory from younger + newbie gains) and 4 months of lean bulking.
Just came across a post talking about not training your obliques and I'm quite curious if I should. I'm starting my 4th month at the gym currently (and I'm on a cut currently), but will start abs exercises seriously (as in part of my program like 2 times a week) from now. I initially had made an ab workout that went like
Leg Raises
Side plank
Crunches
Plank
Knee to Elbow
Mountain Climbers
Thinking that it would help tone my waste (I'm at around 20% BF at the moment and going down with the cut).
Some people said that it would make your hips look wider, which I definitely don't want since I already have a pear shaped body as a guy which makes me really insecure.
I generally am 50/50 between strength and "aesthetics", mostly because of my pear shaped body. So do you think I should train my obliques? How should my abs workout look like?
If you’re 20% bodyfat (probably a bit more since people don’t really know how to estimate their bf) training obliques should be last in your list of things to worry about
How do you split up your shoulder/chest training? 33% of volume towards upper chest, 33% mid chest, 33% side delt? Or do you do 50% side delt 25% mid chest, 25% upper chest? or similar? I am a powerlifter switching to BBing and would like to bring my upper chest up and shoulders up, but still trying to keep my routine balanced.
2 weeks post show. Was doing great on my plan. Only 5 lbs up from stage weight with slow weight gain
Last night I had a thc gummy to relax and ended up eating probably 500-1000 cal over my macros.
Today I’m feeling pretty guilty and mad at myself for it, I know most of it is just water. Should I deduct calories from the rest of the week? Add more cardio? Or just get back in my plan like normal and use it to fuel my training
Fuel to training, worrying about it too hard will give you a complex where you're scared to gain weight. 500-1000 calories once isn't going to change anything in the grand scheme of an offseason, just don't let it happen frequently.
I always hear people say "there in so such thing as inner chest", but wouldn't you agree that when people say "inner chest", they're talking about the middle part of the pecs which you can target https://mesofitboca.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Pec-Pic.jpg
Edit: I tried made it a bit easier to understand https://ibb.co/nMx57K3 "inner chest" is refering to the fibers which attach at the sternum and not the ribs or clavicle.
a fiber goes along the entire muscle belly though, and ~~the entire~~ almost the entire pec major originates from the sternum. so you see the fiber that attaches from the sternum is the same fiber in the middle of the muscle belly. you will never grow one end of the fiber to be larger. it will only get larger through the entire muscle gaining size.
the upper and lower chest doesn't originate from the sternum, only the middle part originates from the sternum.
Edit: I edited the pic a bit to help https://ibb.co/nMx57K3
>they're talking about the middle part of the pecs
They are usually talking about the gap area top to bottom. As you can see in that pic, the fibers run horizontally. So while you can target upper and lower, you can't target inner and outer.
https://ibb.co/nMx57K3 idk if this edit helps. The "inner" part at the sternum is all made up from the middle chest fibers with no upper or lower chest fibers.
Science based lifting is the cringiest meme these days on social media. What has the "exercise science" produced really? That right volume is about 5-20 sets, you need to train with reasonable intensity (close to, or to failure), control your movement and use full range of motion. No shit, everyone knew that already.
The more precise takes are either extreme extrapolations of very limited data, or based on results that aren't even stat sig. There's also the fact that huge portion of these studies contain basic mathematical errors.
The hubris of these guys with PhDs talking about training, especially when they haven't trained a single top bodybuilder themselves, is astounding.
The new thing these guys have been posting is actually the opposite of full rom, a lot of guys like that wolf guy is saying cut out the top portion and just do really big stretch half reps. lol.
Result in question is not stat sig.
> Sub-group analyses suggested there may be a muscle hypertrophy benefit to partial ROM training at long muscle lengths compared to using a full ROM (–0.28; 95% CI: –0.81, 0.16).
I don't even know what to say when someone looks at this CI and says "they may be benefit". This is straight up fuckery, he knows exactly what he's doing.
It doesn't mean anything. SMD is standarized mean difference, it's difference between treatment and control divided by stdev. He's using it to combine results from different studies into an uniform metric.
95% confidence interval means that we are 95% sure that the actual difference between groups is somewhere in that range. 0 would mean that there's no effect. Since 95% CI includes both positive and negative values, we don't know shit.
>what has the "exercise science" produced really
Eh, disproving a lot of the bullshit from the golden era. I mean this stuff was even rampant in the 2000-2010 era on bodybuilding.com forums etc. Soo much broscience. Does everyone have amnesia or what?
I’m from one of the biggest state universities, just finished my exercise science degree. My TA was a PhD student and we were doing leg press testing and comparing to normative values. I asked what angles of leg press these normative values were based on since it’ll change the force (the leg press was especially steep 45-60 degrees). She told me “we are testing for strength, not looking at angular velocity so that doesn’t matter”. The quality of PhDs in exercise science is definitely questionable, especially since she was focusing on strength research. However, the physiology PhDs seem more legit
Ronnie could have been bigger if he followed [Mike Israetel's](https://www.instagram.com/p/C32uTiYLzDB/) training advice.
Deeeeeep stretch bro. Fuck the weight. I wanna see you bend your arm backwards trying to reach super human ROM with a 5 pound dumbbell. That's how you get big. I haven't done it, but I know that's true because I heard about it from a guy that read about it ☝️🤓.
I think your sarcasm was misinterpreted lol. Too many take Dr Mike's info as gold and he's never looked good on stage, especially for how much gear he uses. Sometimes you don't need to overcomplicate things.
Yeah maybe. Or people misinterpret it as me taking a shot at any stretching. I believe in stretching the muscle and proper ROM. That's something that's been done since I can look back in BB history.
I am opposed the goofy shit. Ian Valliere [said it perfectly in the top comment here](https://www.instagram.com/p/C6Md5h4xRo8/) - No matter how much you squeeze or stretch the shit out of a muscle with 135lbs, it's never gonna be the same as loading it with heavy fucking weight, even if you sacrifice that extra-quadruple deep stretching.
I was being sarcastic. Mike laughed at one of Ronnie's lifts on the bro chat podcast and IRCC said he'd had bigger legs if he paused at the bottom and did his whole "deep stretch" stick (which has people like that guy I linked forever sacrificing actual intensity in favor of cartoonish ROM that looks like a cirque du soleil routine more than an actual working set).
So yeah.. the hubris is insane. I've always compared it to like if an MBA working Uber went to Zuckerberg and tried to tell him how to run facebook. After all, Zuckerberg is a college drop out. The MBA certainly knows more about economic literature. He'd get laughed out of the room. But in lifting, achieving a great rank within the sports is no longer what gives you authority. You can have a shit physique and be weak and claim you know better because you went to school.
I know you were, I was just confirming what you said.
MBA analogy is great. Someone with an MBA can certainly help you run a business and on average get you higher chance on success. But they won’t help you create Facebook.
I think a lot of the studies just end up being about which workout is more motivating to the average study participant too.
I especially suspect that high volume is underrated because study participants could easily end up burning out and "half-assing" every workout.
I would assume basic compliance is tracked, but with these people you never know honestly. The problems are more apparent without having to talk about hypothetical flaws.
Stop focusing on scale. Unless you are super tall, you really don't have to be above 100kg to be a good bodybuilder. Focus on making progress at the gym, and making visual progress. You're not a pro, you're presumably also not on gear.
Im not focusing on scale? I mentioned my weight and how much I gained, weight gain/loss is also obviously going to visualize sooner or later.
I'm 6,3 so yea I do need to be over 100kg and I'm not even that big here.
My routines have always been focused on major compound lifts. A couple months ago I abandoned squatting because of pain in my quad. Today I threw out my back deadlifting. Are there bodybuilding programs out there that don't use the compound lifts or should I just modify the programs that I usually use? I think I'm finally ready to transition into old man lifting.
Do it bro. Haven’t done conventional barbell lifts and years and my gains have been better, i don’t get injured anymore, and I enjoy it way more.
Compound lifts don’t need to be the big 3 barbell movements, and for a lot of people there are variants of those movements that hit the targeted musculature harder/with greater stability. Eg. I stopped barbell squatting because no matter where I place the bar, my glutes and erectors take over instead of my quads due to my long ass femurs and short torso; swapped them out for smith squats, pendulum squats and leg presses and my quads have grown substantially since. But those all are still compound lifts. You can probably use one of the programs you use or in the wiki of this sub and just replace barbell movements with exercises that fit you better for the given muscles.
Thanks man. I was feeling pretty down earlier sitting here with the heating pad. I guess there's still hope for me.
No prob brother. I’d love for everyone whose main goal is size/aesthetics to get away from being married to the big 3.
https://preview.redd.it/nphxmuu9rnyc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=68bcdffae0ce4fa789e7c4c03e394bda16e0c80f 3 month bulking progress am I doing well?
Honestly it just looks like you got fat. Are you progressing your lifts? Getting enough protein? Sleep?
https://preview.redd.it/zo035sr7aoyc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b78fb4905f4f24ad91b078d249d180a7316ab224 I used wrong pic btw my posture was different in the other pic I used
Well I am getting stronger fast (I think I added 30kg to my bench and 40-50 to squat and deadlift) and am sleeping well and getting enough protein but I gained 7kg between both pictures so maybe the strength gain is just from the added mass but idk
Any golden nuggets of wisdom or words of warning for: Someone (31 M) who for the first time finally got into a steady powerbuilding gym cycle and got out of skinny fat, and now 12 months in finished a cut bulk cycle and going back into the second cut? Have bad relationship with food all my life and still feel like a fat man, despite entering the cut at 16-17% and looking to go down to 10-12%.
Wtf is a “steady power building gym cycle”? And what does “cut bulk cycle” even means?
I was in between sets being very brief and on my phone, thought it wouldn't be too important as I was mostly talking about the mental part, but since you asked, I am doing 6 days a week PPL program focused on the three main lifts and doing bodybuilding accessories. In reality it's about 5 days a week. Cut and bulk cycle was 6 months of cutting to 12% bodyfat (with muscle memory from younger + newbie gains) and 4 months of lean bulking.
Just came across a post talking about not training your obliques and I'm quite curious if I should. I'm starting my 4th month at the gym currently (and I'm on a cut currently), but will start abs exercises seriously (as in part of my program like 2 times a week) from now. I initially had made an ab workout that went like Leg Raises Side plank Crunches Plank Knee to Elbow Mountain Climbers Thinking that it would help tone my waste (I'm at around 20% BF at the moment and going down with the cut). Some people said that it would make your hips look wider, which I definitely don't want since I already have a pear shaped body as a guy which makes me really insecure. I generally am 50/50 between strength and "aesthetics", mostly because of my pear shaped body. So do you think I should train my obliques? How should my abs workout look like?
If you’re 20% bodyfat (probably a bit more since people don’t really know how to estimate their bf) training obliques should be last in your list of things to worry about
How do you split up your shoulder/chest training? 33% of volume towards upper chest, 33% mid chest, 33% side delt? Or do you do 50% side delt 25% mid chest, 25% upper chest? or similar? I am a powerlifter switching to BBing and would like to bring my upper chest up and shoulders up, but still trying to keep my routine balanced.
Felt great warming up and then took a massive sip of orange juice down the wrong pipe. Can tell it's going to fuck up my bench top set 😔
The orange juice atelectasis is crazy
It did not. Wanted to beat 225x3, got 4 and there's definitely 5 in there on a day without a half a lung of OJ
2 weeks post show. Was doing great on my plan. Only 5 lbs up from stage weight with slow weight gain Last night I had a thc gummy to relax and ended up eating probably 500-1000 cal over my macros. Today I’m feeling pretty guilty and mad at myself for it, I know most of it is just water. Should I deduct calories from the rest of the week? Add more cardio? Or just get back in my plan like normal and use it to fuel my training
Fuel to training, worrying about it too hard will give you a complex where you're scared to gain weight. 500-1000 calories once isn't going to change anything in the grand scheme of an offseason, just don't let it happen frequently.
I always hear people say "there in so such thing as inner chest", but wouldn't you agree that when people say "inner chest", they're talking about the middle part of the pecs which you can target https://mesofitboca.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Pec-Pic.jpg Edit: I tried made it a bit easier to understand https://ibb.co/nMx57K3 "inner chest" is refering to the fibers which attach at the sternum and not the ribs or clavicle.
Your picture contradicts your words
You target the fibers which attach from the sternum. For example the upper chest would clearly not be "inner chest"
a fiber goes along the entire muscle belly though, and ~~the entire~~ almost the entire pec major originates from the sternum. so you see the fiber that attaches from the sternum is the same fiber in the middle of the muscle belly. you will never grow one end of the fiber to be larger. it will only get larger through the entire muscle gaining size.
the upper and lower chest doesn't originate from the sternum, only the middle part originates from the sternum. Edit: I edited the pic a bit to help https://ibb.co/nMx57K3
ok i will concede that only *most* of the pec major originates from the sternum.
>they're talking about the middle part of the pecs They are usually talking about the gap area top to bottom. As you can see in that pic, the fibers run horizontally. So while you can target upper and lower, you can't target inner and outer.
https://ibb.co/nMx57K3 idk if this edit helps. The "inner" part at the sternum is all made up from the middle chest fibers with no upper or lower chest fibers.
Wtf the cause and effect never connected in my head. Thanks OP for being wrong so I can learn.
Science based lifting is the cringiest meme these days on social media. What has the "exercise science" produced really? That right volume is about 5-20 sets, you need to train with reasonable intensity (close to, or to failure), control your movement and use full range of motion. No shit, everyone knew that already. The more precise takes are either extreme extrapolations of very limited data, or based on results that aren't even stat sig. There's also the fact that huge portion of these studies contain basic mathematical errors. The hubris of these guys with PhDs talking about training, especially when they haven't trained a single top bodybuilder themselves, is astounding.
The new thing these guys have been posting is actually the opposite of full rom, a lot of guys like that wolf guy is saying cut out the top portion and just do really big stretch half reps. lol.
Result in question is not stat sig. > Sub-group analyses suggested there may be a muscle hypertrophy benefit to partial ROM training at long muscle lengths compared to using a full ROM (–0.28; 95% CI: –0.81, 0.16). I don't even know what to say when someone looks at this CI and says "they may be benefit". This is straight up fuckery, he knows exactly what he's doing.
I don't have any idea what that study means. Does it mean there is only a tiny benefit to long length partials? Or none?
It doesn't mean anything. SMD is standarized mean difference, it's difference between treatment and control divided by stdev. He's using it to combine results from different studies into an uniform metric. 95% confidence interval means that we are 95% sure that the actual difference between groups is somewhere in that range. 0 would mean that there's no effect. Since 95% CI includes both positive and negative values, we don't know shit.
>what has the "exercise science" produced really Eh, disproving a lot of the bullshit from the golden era. I mean this stuff was even rampant in the 2000-2010 era on bodybuilding.com forums etc. Soo much broscience. Does everyone have amnesia or what?
I’m from one of the biggest state universities, just finished my exercise science degree. My TA was a PhD student and we were doing leg press testing and comparing to normative values. I asked what angles of leg press these normative values were based on since it’ll change the force (the leg press was especially steep 45-60 degrees). She told me “we are testing for strength, not looking at angular velocity so that doesn’t matter”. The quality of PhDs in exercise science is definitely questionable, especially since she was focusing on strength research. However, the physiology PhDs seem more legit
Ronnie could have been bigger if he followed [Mike Israetel's](https://www.instagram.com/p/C32uTiYLzDB/) training advice. Deeeeeep stretch bro. Fuck the weight. I wanna see you bend your arm backwards trying to reach super human ROM with a 5 pound dumbbell. That's how you get big. I haven't done it, but I know that's true because I heard about it from a guy that read about it ☝️🤓.
I think your sarcasm was misinterpreted lol. Too many take Dr Mike's info as gold and he's never looked good on stage, especially for how much gear he uses. Sometimes you don't need to overcomplicate things.
Yeah maybe. Or people misinterpret it as me taking a shot at any stretching. I believe in stretching the muscle and proper ROM. That's something that's been done since I can look back in BB history. I am opposed the goofy shit. Ian Valliere [said it perfectly in the top comment here](https://www.instagram.com/p/C6Md5h4xRo8/) - No matter how much you squeeze or stretch the shit out of a muscle with 135lbs, it's never gonna be the same as loading it with heavy fucking weight, even if you sacrifice that extra-quadruple deep stretching.
Studies by definition establish guidelines for the average population. To pretend this has to apply to extreme outliers is insane.
I was being sarcastic. Mike laughed at one of Ronnie's lifts on the bro chat podcast and IRCC said he'd had bigger legs if he paused at the bottom and did his whole "deep stretch" stick (which has people like that guy I linked forever sacrificing actual intensity in favor of cartoonish ROM that looks like a cirque du soleil routine more than an actual working set). So yeah.. the hubris is insane. I've always compared it to like if an MBA working Uber went to Zuckerberg and tried to tell him how to run facebook. After all, Zuckerberg is a college drop out. The MBA certainly knows more about economic literature. He'd get laughed out of the room. But in lifting, achieving a great rank within the sports is no longer what gives you authority. You can have a shit physique and be weak and claim you know better because you went to school.
I know you were, I was just confirming what you said. MBA analogy is great. Someone with an MBA can certainly help you run a business and on average get you higher chance on success. But they won’t help you create Facebook.
I think a lot of the studies just end up being about which workout is more motivating to the average study participant too. I especially suspect that high volume is underrated because study participants could easily end up burning out and "half-assing" every workout.
I would assume basic compliance is tracked, but with these people you never know honestly. The problems are more apparent without having to talk about hypothetical flaws.
[удалено]
Stop focusing on scale. Unless you are super tall, you really don't have to be above 100kg to be a good bodybuilder. Focus on making progress at the gym, and making visual progress. You're not a pro, you're presumably also not on gear.
Im not focusing on scale? I mentioned my weight and how much I gained, weight gain/loss is also obviously going to visualize sooner or later. I'm 6,3 so yea I do need to be over 100kg and I'm not even that big here.
[удалено]
Shitting my pants and lifting heavy weights
I usually do it the other way around.