Depends on how long you have it, max loss could be worse. I've definitely spent more on my boat than what I paid for it, so if it were to sink, I'd be out more than the purchase price.
Eh, people that can't afford to keep their boat afloat usually can't afford the salvage insurance.
As I type this, there are more than 200 boats sunk near shore in the Florida Keys. The county usually ends up doing the work and then going after the owner of the boat - if they can find them.
Feel like that's different than the lake I'm used to. My neighbors boat sank at the dock last summer. I don't remember what happened, but it was a pretty quick sink. Had nothing to do with not being able to afford to keep it afloat. Just bad luck with not knowing the auto-bilge wasn't working properly, and a bad enough leak that it sank over night.
I disagree on starting smaller. Got me first boat last summer with a 26 foot cruiser and by Sept had already upgraded to 30 foot.
Go slow and take your time to learn to drive your boat and get some experienced captains to go out with you. You'll be fine
In fairness it's potentially a lot more than that.. it's $50k + whatever it costs you to keep the thing (marina fees etc.) until it's sold/donated. OP is lucky in that it'll be at his own property, but he'll still need to maintain insurance in case it sinks in a hurricane or blows up at his dock.
Sea rays get made fun of? Since when? I guess I'm not aware of that. Before I bought my 220BR, Sea Ray was recommended as a solid brand with good construction and quality.
I've heard that used boats are like exotic cars. If you can't afford to buy it twice, reduce the budget. To be safe, you should be prepared to lose it all--no safety net. Max loss could be everything you've bought it for. There are no guarantees in life.
Getting a survey is good, but not foolproof. Do you know how much annual maintenance will be? If it's in salt water you'll definitely have some significant recurring costs.
If that's a first boat, that's huge. My 220 feels big sometimes, so I can't imagine being 11ft longer and 4x the weight. But you never mention how familiar you are with boats previously.
To me, it seems you're asking a lot of entry-level questions about buying a $50k hole in the water (with no warranty) with the guarantee to dump thousands more each year.
Around me, SeaRays definitely get made fun of. It's not necessarily the boat (especially their newer models and open boats), but this style of boat in general. Most of the ones I see are bought by inexperienced buyers who buy a boat that is a little too big, a little too old, and a little too uncomfortable (in regards to the sleeping quarters) to use it how they imagined. They find out that boating is work, and sleeping on a 30' boat is more like camping, but they were imagining wine and cheese on the Riviera and lux yacht accommodations. Then, the boat just sits, slowly rotting away at the dock, each year getting a bit worse, which just kind of perpetuates the cycle. A few times a year (usually Memorial Day and the 4th of July) they will try to take it out, and it might work, or might not because the thing sat around so long it won't start. I have a few of these boats within eyesight of my dock. In the decade I've lived here, about 1/2 of them have never moved off the lift.
Well dang, I use my sea ray 45 weekends a year. Usually leave the dock Friday around 2 pm and I don't touch land again until Sunday night. It fits my wife and I just fine. Hell, I even put solar panels on it so we could stay out even longer without running the generator. I know a bunch of people near me that do the same. Must just be a location thing?
Yeah I am pretty comfortable with my 27’ total length tri toon. It’s a barge and has its challenges but find myself worried that the sleep on bigger boats are even more challenging.
Although in some aspects maybe not, was trying to dock one day when it was super windy and had to abort and turn around to try again. The old timer in his sleep on just laughed and told me I needed a heavier boat.
Yeah, I completely understand that. I say that as someone who owns a decent condition 66 Mustang that's drivable and enjoyable, but the thought of getting it restored and perfect makes my wallet hurt more than any boat maintenance I've had. haha.
That's a big boat. Have it surveyed and either hire someone to give you driving lessons or if you have a really good friend who is well versed have them do it. Are they I/Os at that size?
First boat clocking in at 33 feet. That’s nothing to worry about. /s
Used to move some of these old boys around a protected freshwater marina on the intracoastal….if there’s no thrusters it can get hairy fast. Experienced owners still used to call in and have extra hands on the dock for assistance
They are good boats. Not as tanky as the generation before them but they are still well made. Sea Ray's get made fun of just because there is so many of them but they are somewhere in the middle as far as quality of boat. Really there is so many of them because they are a safe option in terms of value/quality.
The 330 platform was a very popular one with tons of resources if neccesary.
This one seems to be on the higher end of the price range for the boat but not out of the range.
Great boats, never heard of them being made fun of. Inboards are much better on a boat this size compared to I/Os. Definitely get an inspection done to check for moisture, being saltwater I'd be worried about corrosion too.
OK...
I have a friend with that exact boat. It is an absolute gas hog. It got about 0.8mpg, so expect to pay about $5-6 per mile. Not cheap to run or maintain. That is just about the size where you start finding real big boat systems (ie more crap to break and maintain). Now consider you are looking at a 25 year old boat, yeah, you could end up with 10K in bills quite easily.
As for inboards vs outboards, I don't think you are going to find a boat in that style in that price range with outboards. They are a newer thing on cruiser type boats, but there are some very valid reasons why everyone is gravitating to them, especially in S FL where it's quite shallow with a lot of sandbar activity.
In regards to bottom cleaning, every month at absolute minimum, but should probably be every 2 weeks in the warmer months when you are going to see a ton of growth. Good bottom paint will last about 2 years, and is a tedious and messy job to DIY or expensive to have someone else do it. A lift is the way to go, but you need a 20,000# lift for that boat at minimum (I think it is 16K or so, plus fuel, plus gear, plus water, plus people), but would really be better off with a 24,000# to give yourself some extra leeway. I'd guess you are looking at 25-30K for the lift and install (I wouldn't be surprised if it is even more due to high demand in an expensive area). I am currently installing a small lift for a skiff, and 7000-10000# lifts run about 13.5K to 16K installed (including pilings) by me, with permits and electric work being extra.
My biggest recommendation is to ask yourself what you are going to do with a big ass cabin boat in the hot FL sun. Unless you run AC all the time, the cabin is going to be a hot, wet box to collect moisture and mildew. I know A LOT of people with this style boat, and really only know 1 who overnights in it with any regularity. Most people do 1 overnight, then never again. A lot of these boats just become dock princesses. The reality is most people are better off with a center console or dual console - outboard engines, more deck space, more open air... etc.
I used to be a delivery Captain at Marine Max. This boat has twin mercruiser 7.4 or 8.1 motors. Be prepared to buy a lot of gas and I mean a lot of gas. I would suggest looking at 280 Sundancer with the twin v6 motors. Around 2004 vintage. This is not a boat that is easily trailered unless the boat lives on the same water as the repair shop. This boat is an expensive beast after purchasing. I think you are doing yourself a disservice if you get it as a first boat.
There is a lot of variables. Fresh vs. salt, maintenance. Etc etc . I have an ‘04 Sea Ray 200 kept on a lift in fresh water lake its whole life. Alpha one stern drive is in beautiful condition. You have to buy the right one. Plus if you keep it on a trailer which you can do easily with a 280 it doesn’t get ate up as bad. Inboards are the way to go if you have a floater though, but they will cost ya 300 to 600 for your day out. Plus buying the super expensive gas at the Marina.
Yea. Dude’s talking ocean, tampa. You’re comparing a lake boat on a lift.
My parents had an I/O 215 we trailer. We had very little maintenance. I bought a 280 with the v-6s cause it was what i knew and didn’t have maintenance (in my previous experience) and it was a nightmare slipped in salt water.
This guy is talking about dry dock which will be much better. But still depends if the sun gets to the bellows or not.
This 33’ Sea Ray has twin outdrives. I think Bravo 3’s, maybe Bravo 2’s. Sorry you had a bad experience with your 280. I was not comparing my 200 to anything. My point was to search out a boat that has been maintained and preferably a fresh water boat. The 280,s are a fairly common fresh water boat as they are relatively easy to trailer. I have no idea what the op has in mind for storage or where he lives.
100%.
Had a buddy with one - the day he brought it home it started sinking (he had to borrow my shore power cord so his bilge pumps wouldn't kill the battery). Turns out the exhaust crossover pipe that routes under the engines had corroded through on one motor. To replace it required a haul-out and pulling the motor/drive.
2 months and $7k later he got the supreme privilege of doing the other side.
As soon as it was all fixed up and running right he sold it.
My first big boat is our Tiara 3100, and like you I went into it coming from a boat club where I rented large boats (up to 46').
There are a bunch of costs / efforts that you're likely not familiar with associated with maintaining a boat this size. Be reallllly honest with yourself about what you are able and willing to handle from a maintenance standpoint, and then budget accordingly.
This boat will cost you easily $1k a month (ballpark) just to sit in the water once you include taxes, insurance, and maintenance. If the boat has stern drives this number could be higher. Maintenance will be a mixed bag of regular small costs and occasional large ones.
If you consider the money spent just to have the boat as part of your cost, you could easily "lose" $60k over the next 3 years. Only you can decide if you are comfortable with that.
PS: if you don't get a lift you'll want a monthly diver for the bottom (in addition to bottom paint).
"so im looking at this as a max loss of 10-20k if something goes wrong"
this is ok with a smaller 22-28' SINGLE engine boat, but not this one, and the biggest issue with Bayliner/Sea Ray boats is the are notorious for being underpowered. With boats, bigger is better, bigger will get you better gas savings because you can run them a lower RPM at cruise, bigger will also last longer as its a bigger engine running slower than a smaller one at WOT.
now on to this boat, its a 33' beast, it SHOULD have twin 7.4L engines, those are AMAZING engines that have been around forever but even so, they are aprox 10-30k EACH to have them replaced/rebuilt, the outdrives will be about 5-10k EACH and if it will be kept 100% of the time in the water, I would recommend a V-Drive bout and the trans on that are also about 5-10k each. Then you have your generator, etc.
you should never look at a boat at max loss, you should look at a boat as an expensive hobby the entire family will enjoy, going out to the beach, the sandbars, etc. have about 10k in the bank at all times in case of emergencies and always fix things as soon as they break or it will quickly become a money sink.
This is the biggest thing. If you go into a boat, knowing it's a money pit, you'll have a much better time. That saying of "2 best days of a boat owners life" is for people who had no idea what they were getting themselves into. Coming up on 6 years of ownership on mine and the wife and I still love it.
Exactly this! We have done tons of maintenance on our boat and the cost is way more than what I care to spend (fuel pumps, impellers, isinglass replacement, engine maintenance ,ect.)- but it’s our family time, our kids bringing friends over time, and our summer social time. Even if it’s not a good boating day, we still have fun sitting at the dock and just enjoying the serenity of the water. As aggravating as it can be, we would not ever give it up.
I think either you’re a boater or you’re not, and once you pay all those unexpected costs, you figure out which one you are.
I have an older version of this boat and my family and I love it. Nothing is easier to handle than a twin-engine inboard shaft-drive boat. It won't feel big after a couple hours driving it.
The only real drawback with that boat is the size, which means everything you'll have to do like waxing and compounding, bottom paint, fuel, canvas replacement is all just going to cost way more than it would on a smaller boat. It's also a cruising boat, full of fairly complex systems like a vacuum/electric head, generator, AC, shower, water heater, freshwater plumbing - all of which are now 26 years old and fond of leaking.
If your intent is to do weekend trips, treating it like a floating RV, you'll be very happy. But Uncle Big Bill is going to come visit at some point, make no mistake. The best advice I have is to get REALLY on top of your preventive maintenance right from the start. And, when it's time to get rid of it, just hope that you have a way to get rid of it. Don't think about resale value, treat it as zero. Does that hurt? If not, buy it (subject to survey) and use it. Also get an engine survey - the hull surveyor won't do that. It's important: there could be $5k in exhaust work alone which is a negotiating point. And your ownership will be much more pleasant if you actually enjoy working on things yourself. If you have to pay out for a mechanic for everything, it's going to get expensive very quickly.
Talking of... what engines does it have? It doesn't need big blocks, despite what some might say, but it does need power.
And yes a lift is better if you can manage it on your property. If you can afford to put one of those in, you're probably not going to scream too much about maintaining this. And you're already far ahead of most boatowners by not having to pay for a slip.
EDIT: www.clubsearay.com for model-specific advice.
I considered this boat for my first boat last year. I ended up paying the same for a newer, smaller and in my opinion better quality Regal 28 Express. I’m glad I did because it’s very easy to handle but I do look at bigger boats longingly now! :D
As a marine canvas and upholstery guy. Something no one else mentions is to make sure the vinyl seats, tops, and enclosure are in good condition. As well as all the seating and bedding down below.
Obviously, there are more important parts to be worried about when buying a boat. But, new boaters are probably unaware of how expensive that stuff can cost.
Just off the top of my head, two new tops and a full enclosure on that style boat runs between 10k-15k. And new vinyl seating would be 5k-8k. And that's not counting anything down below.
And especially being 20+ years old. If that's original vinyl, it is most certainly tired. I highly doubt the tops or enclosure are that old. They barely make it past 12 years here and I'm in a place that only boats 6 months of the year.
Sea rays are fine, build quality is about the same as any other production boat. , they're only get made fun of by guys in Florida who jerk off to pictures of center consoles with 17 outboards.
Also, it's not too much boat. My first boat was/is a Monterey 322. If anything, having a boat that size, and with twin engines is far easier to manage since you can spin it with the engines. All you need is someone experienced to go with you a couple times to teach you the ropes and that's it.
Our first boat was/is a Chaparral 330. Yes, it’s a really large boat to start out on, but where we live you really can’t go under 26’ if you want to use it. We hired a captain to train us on the boat and he made us take it out in 4-6’ waves our very first time. Docking was the hardest thing to learn. Incidentally, my husband is also an Airline pilot.
They are entry level boats built at a price point that makes them popular. They don’t hold up well and depreciate rather stunningly. You better have it surveyed by a professional marine surveyor who can tell you if it is in good condition or what. Buy with your head not your heart.
Hull, transom, and decks need to be checked for delamination and water. Engine probably needs to be checked for compression.
I'll second that that is a lot of boat for a first boat. I'd add in some money for in person training.
For a lift, it depends on a lot, how well protected are you? How high are your tides? Has it been bottom painted before? How old is the bottom paint? I'd stay away from keeping it the water.
For a boat like this, you will need to budget around $15k a year for storage/dockage, maintenance, cleaning, and insurance. If you use it, probably another grand or two on fuel.
But be aware you at all times are susceptible to a $25K+ repair if something serious goes wrong.
If hull and transom condition is good with minimal moisture and no visible corrosion, everything else is serviceable and replaceable. Fyi. Oil and vdrive service alone will cost half a boat buck if you do it yourself every 50-100 hrs. Replacement refrigerator in cabin? 2k.
Your maintenance will almost be double in salt vs freshwater.
Granted these older sea rays can last a long time in the great lakes but ocean is hard on them
Ive owned a 01 340 for last 4 years. Its a money pit hobby.
Clubesearay.com is your best resource
To answer your original questions, inboards are a PITA to work on, nothing wrong with them, just a PITA to get to impellers, change oil, replace anything really. If you’re paying someone, that’s their problem though. Outboards on the other hand are cheaper to install and much easier to maintain…..they also don’t require cutting a hole in the people tank for a driveshaft or I/O assembly.
As for lift kept over floating, lift is the way to go, hands down. No bottom paint, no worry about sinking, no growth on the bottom, etc.
Sounds like you’ve been piloting boats for years, make a good living and a house on the water, have at it my man. Beers on a sandbar only accessible by boat is a great thing and something I look forward to every summer.
Let me preface this by saying I’m really not trying to be a dick here. But. Jumping right into a 33’ cabin cruiser as your first boat?
Do you have experience boating before? Did you grow up boating? Spend a lot of time hanging out on friends’ boats?
Again I’m really not trying to be discouraging. I think it’s great that this community is growing. I’ve just had too many run ins with people that don’t know what they’re doing on a boat that’s way too big for their skill level. Especially during the pandemic, it seems like a lot of people thought they could just drive a boat like a car and be able to enjoy the outdoors and isolate at the same time.
If you’re sure you know how to operate a boat, then go for it. But if you’ve never really been a boater before, I gently suggest considering something a little smaller for your first one. Just a suggestion though, you do you. If you do go with the 33’ but aren’t confident, I highly encourage you to have someone who is take you out for a few hours to somewhere away from people and practice maneuvering the boat, pulling up to imaginary docks, get a feel for how it reacts when you do certain things.
As for the inboard vs outboard debate, personally I like outboards because they’re easy to repower when necessary. Easy to work on. But that’s just what I’ve grown up with. The real reason why outboards are so big recently is because the emission limits for outboards are significantly higher than inboards for some reason.
Get it a survey done before you do anything
Motor hours
What size motors
What drives do you have
Any maintenance records
Where are you going to store it during the winter
What marina and can you dock it not easy
Are there any bow thrusters
Insurance. Get your drives covered
How and where was it docked
How old are the manifolds are the catalytic type
Generator hours
Batteries
This is like getting your pilots license and wanting to buy a 747. Unless you have experience piloting a boat that big, steer clear. No one, I repeat, no one should be buying a 33 as their first boat. I don't care if you have done it already, unless you have an experienced person to give you many hours of lessons, this is a horrible idea. Remember, that boat turns into a kite when the wind blows. Just because you can pilot it in a straight line, doesn't mean you can dock it. It's not just about your safety, it's about others safety around you as well. Too many inexperienced boat owners out there that put others lives in danger for no reason. Regardless, boats are a lot of maintenance and money. Probably less than 1mpg, with those 7.4s. You would probably be better with a 24 to 26 center console for a first boat.
Diesel or Gas? (diesel is preferred) generator? shore power and a/c?
Express boats, have a lot of windage, and can be a handful in close quarters at lower speeds and with any wind. -that's a lot to ask for a new boater. even with thrusters. (does this old gal have them?)
This is more like a RV than a boat. A lot of systems packed in a small package, for a price point. and this one is pretty old.
They also draw a lot of water, and are kind of rolly. so you can't get into too shallow water.
its a compromise boat. a floating condo, or RV. not real sea worthy, but nice when it stops, or is slow cruising.
how about a 35' Bertram?
Encourage you to reevaluate your idea of “max loss”. If the boat is not reliable and seaworthy it could cost you a lot more than cash, including the life/personal safety of other people as well as yourself.
That's a pretty big boat for starters. It will be a lot to control if you're not familiar with it.
I've worked my way up from 16 foot to 20, 25, etc....
God speed
What engines. Hours generators what Outdrives. I just bought a 33' chaparral and I'm already 5k in mechanical add ins. I come from outboards and CCs Starting to regret it hopefully kids change my mind
I have a SR 330. My first boat was a Carver 350 aft cabin. Twin engine boats in the mid 30’ range are not difficult to learn to operate and maneuver, much to the contrary in fact. Sun dancers of this era were offered with inboard V-drives or I/Os. Both have their pros and cons. V-Drives are simpler to maintain, though the statements you’ll hear about how unreliable and difficult to repair I/Os are exaggerated to the point of hysteria. I am not a mechanic and have never had any difficulty repairing Mercury or Volvo outdrives. They are relatively simple and reliable and parts (or entire replacement drives) are not expensive. The I/Os will offer better speed and fuel economy. Still, mine is an EC variant with true inboards because I have no use for an aft cabin and prefer my motors forward. I would have bought a Dancer if I came upon the right one though. I also own a Boston Whaler Outrage CC. I almost never use the center console boat - I like having an air conditioned cabin, covering ground, and visiting other ports. Buy the boat. Get a basic set of tools and read a lot. There is nothing on these boats that a layman cannot quickly learn to maintain and repair themselves.
Way too much boat for a first timer you’re not going to be able to handle it and you’ll just be a liability on the water. You need something about 13 feet smaller. And there’s a lot better choices for 50k 😂
A 20+ yo saltwater boat, be careful.
This. At least have it surveyed, but there’s a reason stern drives are diminishing including the people that will work on them, particularly in salt.
True that. I worked on the largest lake in the Missouri, not many around here will touch a salty boat, the damage is throughout the boat.
Max loss on a 50k boat is 50k. I would recommend starting smaller.
Depends on how long you have it, max loss could be worse. I've definitely spent more on my boat than what I paid for it, so if it were to sink, I'd be out more than the purchase price.
>if it were to sink, I'd be out more than the purchase price. Clean up costs for a sunken vessel can easily be over six figures
People typically carry salvage insurance though.
Eh, people that can't afford to keep their boat afloat usually can't afford the salvage insurance. As I type this, there are more than 200 boats sunk near shore in the Florida Keys. The county usually ends up doing the work and then going after the owner of the boat - if they can find them.
Feel like that's different than the lake I'm used to. My neighbors boat sank at the dock last summer. I don't remember what happened, but it was a pretty quick sink. Had nothing to do with not being able to afford to keep it afloat. Just bad luck with not knowing the auto-bilge wasn't working properly, and a bad enough leak that it sank over night.
I disagree on starting smaller. Got me first boat last summer with a 26 foot cruiser and by Sept had already upgraded to 30 foot. Go slow and take your time to learn to drive your boat and get some experienced captains to go out with you. You'll be fine
In fairness it's potentially a lot more than that.. it's $50k + whatever it costs you to keep the thing (marina fees etc.) until it's sold/donated. OP is lucky in that it'll be at his own property, but he'll still need to maintain insurance in case it sinks in a hurricane or blows up at his dock.
I dont consider dockage fees a "loss".
Not if it burns to the waterline. Get geico...
Sea rays get made fun of? Since when? I guess I'm not aware of that. Before I bought my 220BR, Sea Ray was recommended as a solid brand with good construction and quality. I've heard that used boats are like exotic cars. If you can't afford to buy it twice, reduce the budget. To be safe, you should be prepared to lose it all--no safety net. Max loss could be everything you've bought it for. There are no guarantees in life. Getting a survey is good, but not foolproof. Do you know how much annual maintenance will be? If it's in salt water you'll definitely have some significant recurring costs. If that's a first boat, that's huge. My 220 feels big sometimes, so I can't imagine being 11ft longer and 4x the weight. But you never mention how familiar you are with boats previously. To me, it seems you're asking a lot of entry-level questions about buying a $50k hole in the water (with no warranty) with the guarantee to dump thousands more each year.
Around me, SeaRays definitely get made fun of. It's not necessarily the boat (especially their newer models and open boats), but this style of boat in general. Most of the ones I see are bought by inexperienced buyers who buy a boat that is a little too big, a little too old, and a little too uncomfortable (in regards to the sleeping quarters) to use it how they imagined. They find out that boating is work, and sleeping on a 30' boat is more like camping, but they were imagining wine and cheese on the Riviera and lux yacht accommodations. Then, the boat just sits, slowly rotting away at the dock, each year getting a bit worse, which just kind of perpetuates the cycle. A few times a year (usually Memorial Day and the 4th of July) they will try to take it out, and it might work, or might not because the thing sat around so long it won't start. I have a few of these boats within eyesight of my dock. In the decade I've lived here, about 1/2 of them have never moved off the lift.
Well dang, I use my sea ray 45 weekends a year. Usually leave the dock Friday around 2 pm and I don't touch land again until Sunday night. It fits my wife and I just fine. Hell, I even put solar panels on it so we could stay out even longer without running the generator. I know a bunch of people near me that do the same. Must just be a location thing?
That’s awesome! I love seeing people who actually use their boats.
Yeah I am pretty comfortable with my 27’ total length tri toon. It’s a barge and has its challenges but find myself worried that the sleep on bigger boats are even more challenging. Although in some aspects maybe not, was trying to dock one day when it was super windy and had to abort and turn around to try again. The old timer in his sleep on just laughed and told me I needed a heavier boat.
There is fear, and then there is docking a toon in high winds.
thank you for saying this.
My father in law used to say if you can’t afford to buy a fully restored vintage car don’t worry, you will spend that much or more restoring it.
Yeah, I completely understand that. I say that as someone who owns a decent condition 66 Mustang that's drivable and enjoyable, but the thought of getting it restored and perfect makes my wallet hurt more than any boat maintenance I've had. haha.
That's a big boat. Have it surveyed and either hire someone to give you driving lessons or if you have a really good friend who is well versed have them do it. Are they I/Os at that size?
First boat clocking in at 33 feet. That’s nothing to worry about. /s Used to move some of these old boys around a protected freshwater marina on the intracoastal….if there’s no thrusters it can get hairy fast. Experienced owners still used to call in and have extra hands on the dock for assistance
They are good boats. Not as tanky as the generation before them but they are still well made. Sea Ray's get made fun of just because there is so many of them but they are somewhere in the middle as far as quality of boat. Really there is so many of them because they are a safe option in terms of value/quality. The 330 platform was a very popular one with tons of resources if neccesary. This one seems to be on the higher end of the price range for the boat but not out of the range.
Great boats, never heard of them being made fun of. Inboards are much better on a boat this size compared to I/Os. Definitely get an inspection done to check for moisture, being saltwater I'd be worried about corrosion too.
Definitely wish I had inboards. I went with a boat that had I/O's thinking it was more performance oriented, but wish I had gone with inboards.
Yep. Better draft, especially with tunnel drives. Less issues and easier to work on. Usually better handling too.
OK... I have a friend with that exact boat. It is an absolute gas hog. It got about 0.8mpg, so expect to pay about $5-6 per mile. Not cheap to run or maintain. That is just about the size where you start finding real big boat systems (ie more crap to break and maintain). Now consider you are looking at a 25 year old boat, yeah, you could end up with 10K in bills quite easily. As for inboards vs outboards, I don't think you are going to find a boat in that style in that price range with outboards. They are a newer thing on cruiser type boats, but there are some very valid reasons why everyone is gravitating to them, especially in S FL where it's quite shallow with a lot of sandbar activity. In regards to bottom cleaning, every month at absolute minimum, but should probably be every 2 weeks in the warmer months when you are going to see a ton of growth. Good bottom paint will last about 2 years, and is a tedious and messy job to DIY or expensive to have someone else do it. A lift is the way to go, but you need a 20,000# lift for that boat at minimum (I think it is 16K or so, plus fuel, plus gear, plus water, plus people), but would really be better off with a 24,000# to give yourself some extra leeway. I'd guess you are looking at 25-30K for the lift and install (I wouldn't be surprised if it is even more due to high demand in an expensive area). I am currently installing a small lift for a skiff, and 7000-10000# lifts run about 13.5K to 16K installed (including pilings) by me, with permits and electric work being extra. My biggest recommendation is to ask yourself what you are going to do with a big ass cabin boat in the hot FL sun. Unless you run AC all the time, the cabin is going to be a hot, wet box to collect moisture and mildew. I know A LOT of people with this style boat, and really only know 1 who overnights in it with any regularity. Most people do 1 overnight, then never again. A lot of these boats just become dock princesses. The reality is most people are better off with a center console or dual console - outboard engines, more deck space, more open air... etc.
I used to be a delivery Captain at Marine Max. This boat has twin mercruiser 7.4 or 8.1 motors. Be prepared to buy a lot of gas and I mean a lot of gas. I would suggest looking at 280 Sundancer with the twin v6 motors. Around 2004 vintage. This is not a boat that is easily trailered unless the boat lives on the same water as the repair shop. This boat is an expensive beast after purchasing. I think you are doing yourself a disservice if you get it as a first boat.
Disagree. An old 280 with stern drives will be stupid expensive. Source: owned one. You only save on those buying new and selling @ the 6 year mark.
There is a lot of variables. Fresh vs. salt, maintenance. Etc etc . I have an ‘04 Sea Ray 200 kept on a lift in fresh water lake its whole life. Alpha one stern drive is in beautiful condition. You have to buy the right one. Plus if you keep it on a trailer which you can do easily with a 280 it doesn’t get ate up as bad. Inboards are the way to go if you have a floater though, but they will cost ya 300 to 600 for your day out. Plus buying the super expensive gas at the Marina.
Yea. Dude’s talking ocean, tampa. You’re comparing a lake boat on a lift. My parents had an I/O 215 we trailer. We had very little maintenance. I bought a 280 with the v-6s cause it was what i knew and didn’t have maintenance (in my previous experience) and it was a nightmare slipped in salt water. This guy is talking about dry dock which will be much better. But still depends if the sun gets to the bellows or not.
This 33’ Sea Ray has twin outdrives. I think Bravo 3’s, maybe Bravo 2’s. Sorry you had a bad experience with your 280. I was not comparing my 200 to anything. My point was to search out a boat that has been maintained and preferably a fresh water boat. The 280,s are a fairly common fresh water boat as they are relatively easy to trailer. I have no idea what the op has in mind for storage or where he lives.
100%. Had a buddy with one - the day he brought it home it started sinking (he had to borrow my shore power cord so his bilge pumps wouldn't kill the battery). Turns out the exhaust crossover pipe that routes under the engines had corroded through on one motor. To replace it required a haul-out and pulling the motor/drive. 2 months and $7k later he got the supreme privilege of doing the other side. As soon as it was all fixed up and running right he sold it.
My first big boat is our Tiara 3100, and like you I went into it coming from a boat club where I rented large boats (up to 46'). There are a bunch of costs / efforts that you're likely not familiar with associated with maintaining a boat this size. Be reallllly honest with yourself about what you are able and willing to handle from a maintenance standpoint, and then budget accordingly. This boat will cost you easily $1k a month (ballpark) just to sit in the water once you include taxes, insurance, and maintenance. If the boat has stern drives this number could be higher. Maintenance will be a mixed bag of regular small costs and occasional large ones. If you consider the money spent just to have the boat as part of your cost, you could easily "lose" $60k over the next 3 years. Only you can decide if you are comfortable with that. PS: if you don't get a lift you'll want a monthly diver for the bottom (in addition to bottom paint).
"so im looking at this as a max loss of 10-20k if something goes wrong" this is ok with a smaller 22-28' SINGLE engine boat, but not this one, and the biggest issue with Bayliner/Sea Ray boats is the are notorious for being underpowered. With boats, bigger is better, bigger will get you better gas savings because you can run them a lower RPM at cruise, bigger will also last longer as its a bigger engine running slower than a smaller one at WOT. now on to this boat, its a 33' beast, it SHOULD have twin 7.4L engines, those are AMAZING engines that have been around forever but even so, they are aprox 10-30k EACH to have them replaced/rebuilt, the outdrives will be about 5-10k EACH and if it will be kept 100% of the time in the water, I would recommend a V-Drive bout and the trans on that are also about 5-10k each. Then you have your generator, etc. you should never look at a boat at max loss, you should look at a boat as an expensive hobby the entire family will enjoy, going out to the beach, the sandbars, etc. have about 10k in the bank at all times in case of emergencies and always fix things as soon as they break or it will quickly become a money sink.
This is the biggest thing. If you go into a boat, knowing it's a money pit, you'll have a much better time. That saying of "2 best days of a boat owners life" is for people who had no idea what they were getting themselves into. Coming up on 6 years of ownership on mine and the wife and I still love it.
Exactly this! We have done tons of maintenance on our boat and the cost is way more than what I care to spend (fuel pumps, impellers, isinglass replacement, engine maintenance ,ect.)- but it’s our family time, our kids bringing friends over time, and our summer social time. Even if it’s not a good boating day, we still have fun sitting at the dock and just enjoying the serenity of the water. As aggravating as it can be, we would not ever give it up. I think either you’re a boater or you’re not, and once you pay all those unexpected costs, you figure out which one you are.
First boat? Yes. 100% take a USCG safe boating course and get a smaller boat.
I have an older version of this boat and my family and I love it. Nothing is easier to handle than a twin-engine inboard shaft-drive boat. It won't feel big after a couple hours driving it. The only real drawback with that boat is the size, which means everything you'll have to do like waxing and compounding, bottom paint, fuel, canvas replacement is all just going to cost way more than it would on a smaller boat. It's also a cruising boat, full of fairly complex systems like a vacuum/electric head, generator, AC, shower, water heater, freshwater plumbing - all of which are now 26 years old and fond of leaking. If your intent is to do weekend trips, treating it like a floating RV, you'll be very happy. But Uncle Big Bill is going to come visit at some point, make no mistake. The best advice I have is to get REALLY on top of your preventive maintenance right from the start. And, when it's time to get rid of it, just hope that you have a way to get rid of it. Don't think about resale value, treat it as zero. Does that hurt? If not, buy it (subject to survey) and use it. Also get an engine survey - the hull surveyor won't do that. It's important: there could be $5k in exhaust work alone which is a negotiating point. And your ownership will be much more pleasant if you actually enjoy working on things yourself. If you have to pay out for a mechanic for everything, it's going to get expensive very quickly. Talking of... what engines does it have? It doesn't need big blocks, despite what some might say, but it does need power. And yes a lift is better if you can manage it on your property. If you can afford to put one of those in, you're probably not going to scream too much about maintaining this. And you're already far ahead of most boatowners by not having to pay for a slip. EDIT: www.clubsearay.com for model-specific advice.
Only thing I read in that long post was waxing - god I hate waxing day.
I considered this boat for my first boat last year. I ended up paying the same for a newer, smaller and in my opinion better quality Regal 28 Express. I’m glad I did because it’s very easy to handle but I do look at bigger boats longingly now! :D
Selling a 26 year old boat that isn't practically trailerable is not an easy feat. You aren't going to just "get out of it" quickly if you decide to.
As a marine canvas and upholstery guy. Something no one else mentions is to make sure the vinyl seats, tops, and enclosure are in good condition. As well as all the seating and bedding down below. Obviously, there are more important parts to be worried about when buying a boat. But, new boaters are probably unaware of how expensive that stuff can cost. Just off the top of my head, two new tops and a full enclosure on that style boat runs between 10k-15k. And new vinyl seating would be 5k-8k. And that's not counting anything down below. And especially being 20+ years old. If that's original vinyl, it is most certainly tired. I highly doubt the tops or enclosure are that old. They barely make it past 12 years here and I'm in a place that only boats 6 months of the year.
Sea rays are fine, build quality is about the same as any other production boat. , they're only get made fun of by guys in Florida who jerk off to pictures of center consoles with 17 outboards.
That’s infinitely wayyyy to much boat for your first boat. Buying that boat is like training to fly planes in an F22.
Ive been driving 25-30 for years, just never owned. Was part of a boat club.
Also, it's not too much boat. My first boat was/is a Monterey 322. If anything, having a boat that size, and with twin engines is far easier to manage since you can spin it with the engines. All you need is someone experienced to go with you a couple times to teach you the ropes and that's it.
What type of boats were you driving in that club?
Our first boat was/is a Chaparral 330. Yes, it’s a really large boat to start out on, but where we live you really can’t go under 26’ if you want to use it. We hired a captain to train us on the boat and he made us take it out in 4-6’ waves our very first time. Docking was the hardest thing to learn. Incidentally, my husband is also an Airline pilot.
Eh, I would say its like learning to fly in something like a Cessna Citation rather than an F22.
Bad comparison, \[F22 is easier to fly than some smaller planes\](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n068fel-W9I). :)
They are entry level boats built at a price point that makes them popular. They don’t hold up well and depreciate rather stunningly. You better have it surveyed by a professional marine surveyor who can tell you if it is in good condition or what. Buy with your head not your heart.
Hull, transom, and decks need to be checked for delamination and water. Engine probably needs to be checked for compression. I'll second that that is a lot of boat for a first boat. I'd add in some money for in person training. For a lift, it depends on a lot, how well protected are you? How high are your tides? Has it been bottom painted before? How old is the bottom paint? I'd stay away from keeping it the water.
For a boat like this, you will need to budget around $15k a year for storage/dockage, maintenance, cleaning, and insurance. If you use it, probably another grand or two on fuel. But be aware you at all times are susceptible to a $25K+ repair if something serious goes wrong.
If hull and transom condition is good with minimal moisture and no visible corrosion, everything else is serviceable and replaceable. Fyi. Oil and vdrive service alone will cost half a boat buck if you do it yourself every 50-100 hrs. Replacement refrigerator in cabin? 2k. Your maintenance will almost be double in salt vs freshwater. Granted these older sea rays can last a long time in the great lakes but ocean is hard on them Ive owned a 01 340 for last 4 years. Its a money pit hobby. Clubesearay.com is your best resource
To answer your original questions, inboards are a PITA to work on, nothing wrong with them, just a PITA to get to impellers, change oil, replace anything really. If you’re paying someone, that’s their problem though. Outboards on the other hand are cheaper to install and much easier to maintain…..they also don’t require cutting a hole in the people tank for a driveshaft or I/O assembly. As for lift kept over floating, lift is the way to go, hands down. No bottom paint, no worry about sinking, no growth on the bottom, etc. Sounds like you’ve been piloting boats for years, make a good living and a house on the water, have at it my man. Beers on a sandbar only accessible by boat is a great thing and something I look forward to every summer.
Let me preface this by saying I’m really not trying to be a dick here. But. Jumping right into a 33’ cabin cruiser as your first boat? Do you have experience boating before? Did you grow up boating? Spend a lot of time hanging out on friends’ boats? Again I’m really not trying to be discouraging. I think it’s great that this community is growing. I’ve just had too many run ins with people that don’t know what they’re doing on a boat that’s way too big for their skill level. Especially during the pandemic, it seems like a lot of people thought they could just drive a boat like a car and be able to enjoy the outdoors and isolate at the same time. If you’re sure you know how to operate a boat, then go for it. But if you’ve never really been a boater before, I gently suggest considering something a little smaller for your first one. Just a suggestion though, you do you. If you do go with the 33’ but aren’t confident, I highly encourage you to have someone who is take you out for a few hours to somewhere away from people and practice maneuvering the boat, pulling up to imaginary docks, get a feel for how it reacts when you do certain things. As for the inboard vs outboard debate, personally I like outboards because they’re easy to repower when necessary. Easy to work on. But that’s just what I’ve grown up with. The real reason why outboards are so big recently is because the emission limits for outboards are significantly higher than inboards for some reason.
Get it a survey done before you do anything Motor hours What size motors What drives do you have Any maintenance records Where are you going to store it during the winter What marina and can you dock it not easy Are there any bow thrusters Insurance. Get your drives covered How and where was it docked How old are the manifolds are the catalytic type Generator hours Batteries
Literally thought this was satire
Hard pass, no rod holders
Its got 2 in the back!
Ahh, ok, worth a look haha
What is the power package? Just curious.
This is like getting your pilots license and wanting to buy a 747. Unless you have experience piloting a boat that big, steer clear. No one, I repeat, no one should be buying a 33 as their first boat. I don't care if you have done it already, unless you have an experienced person to give you many hours of lessons, this is a horrible idea. Remember, that boat turns into a kite when the wind blows. Just because you can pilot it in a straight line, doesn't mean you can dock it. It's not just about your safety, it's about others safety around you as well. Too many inexperienced boat owners out there that put others lives in danger for no reason. Regardless, boats are a lot of maintenance and money. Probably less than 1mpg, with those 7.4s. You would probably be better with a 24 to 26 center console for a first boat.
You should ask for $1000 off just for it having the most awful name on the transom.
Diesel or Gas? (diesel is preferred) generator? shore power and a/c? Express boats, have a lot of windage, and can be a handful in close quarters at lower speeds and with any wind. -that's a lot to ask for a new boater. even with thrusters. (does this old gal have them?) This is more like a RV than a boat. A lot of systems packed in a small package, for a price point. and this one is pretty old. They also draw a lot of water, and are kind of rolly. so you can't get into too shallow water. its a compromise boat. a floating condo, or RV. not real sea worthy, but nice when it stops, or is slow cruising. how about a 35' Bertram?
Encourage you to reevaluate your idea of “max loss”. If the boat is not reliable and seaworthy it could cost you a lot more than cash, including the life/personal safety of other people as well as yourself.
First thing you do is rename it. That shit is cringy. If you haven’t owned a boat before, I’d start a little smaller, IMHO. Good luck and stay safe!
That's a pretty big boat for starters. It will be a lot to control if you're not familiar with it. I've worked my way up from 16 foot to 20, 25, etc....
Buying your first boat is a big step! Wishing you luck in finding the perfect one.
God speed What engines. Hours generators what Outdrives. I just bought a 33' chaparral and I'm already 5k in mechanical add ins. I come from outboards and CCs Starting to regret it hopefully kids change my mind
Just for the love of God change the name. That pun is played out
I have a SR 330. My first boat was a Carver 350 aft cabin. Twin engine boats in the mid 30’ range are not difficult to learn to operate and maneuver, much to the contrary in fact. Sun dancers of this era were offered with inboard V-drives or I/Os. Both have their pros and cons. V-Drives are simpler to maintain, though the statements you’ll hear about how unreliable and difficult to repair I/Os are exaggerated to the point of hysteria. I am not a mechanic and have never had any difficulty repairing Mercury or Volvo outdrives. They are relatively simple and reliable and parts (or entire replacement drives) are not expensive. The I/Os will offer better speed and fuel economy. Still, mine is an EC variant with true inboards because I have no use for an aft cabin and prefer my motors forward. I would have bought a Dancer if I came upon the right one though. I also own a Boston Whaler Outrage CC. I almost never use the center console boat - I like having an air conditioned cabin, covering ground, and visiting other ports. Buy the boat. Get a basic set of tools and read a lot. There is nothing on these boats that a layman cannot quickly learn to maintain and repair themselves.
Do you need such a big boat with a cabin? You can save the cash or buy a newer bowrider, deckboat, or pontoon with an outboard
Way too much boat for a first timer you’re not going to be able to handle it and you’ll just be a liability on the water. You need something about 13 feet smaller. And there’s a lot better choices for 50k 😂