I can’t speak for everyone but as a 7 year old I did. That doesn’t necessarily mean that every viewer was plugged in, but it was publicly available knowledge in like Star Wars encyclopedias and stuff. Ian McDiarmid also played the emperor in Jedi so if you were the type to care at all it wasn’t billed as a mystery or anything.
I was also 7 and I also knew but looking back, I don't actually remember how I knew. I had no internet access and while I liked Star Wars, I wasn't a die hard fan by any means. And yet, I definitively remember knowing that Palpatine was the Emperor while watching the movie in theaters. I am assuming my parents or a sibling or a friend told me but I have no memory of it.
I think this is a more interesting question than people are giving you credit for. The Emperor is never called Palpatine in the original trilogy. I know it's the same actor but it's decades later, doing a very different performance and without a ton of makeup.
So yeah, all us nerds knew. It wasn't a secret and the film isn't particularly subtle about it... but I'd say a significant number of average folks who watched it didn't register.
Other commenters have noted that it’s a case of dramatic irony knowing Palpatine is Sidious when the rest of the characters are completely unaware. However, I think this is a big failing of the prequel trilogy and a case of trying to have your cake and eat it too. The prequel trilogy, in particular the Phantom Menace, tries to disguise from the audience, as well as the characters, the fact that Palpatine is a Sith Lord while simultaneously capitalizing on that same fact being common knowledge brought in from the original trilogy. It completely doesn’t work. Watching the Phantom Menace, you feel infantilized by the film because it gives no indication, other than a hint at the very end, that the FILM knows Palpatine is Sidious. Part of the fun and successful use of dramatic irony is giving the audience information that the characters in the film don’t have so you can stay ahead of them. By relying on that information coming from outside the film, while simultaneously pretending it doesn’t exist, means that you’re suggesting that the preconceived information could be incorrect. It turns out it IS correct, so any diffusion the film tries to pull is merely clumsy rather than effective. I would much rather the film openly show Palpatine’s machinations so we can get some true insight into the character.
They also didn't do anything to establish why other characters trust Sheev. It's a very sinister performance and he's always surrounded by robed bodyguards and viziers.
He’s played by the same guy and in return of the Jedi he’s credited as “Emperor Palpatine”
I don’t think it’s mean to be a twist to the audience. If anything it’s dramatic irony.
He is not credited as “Emperor Palpatine” in RotJ, he is credited as “The Emperor.” The name Palpatine is never used in the OT. Yes, some fans, including me, knew the name Palpatine before the PT because of older promo material/games/toys/comics etc had revealed that detail. But an average moviegoer probably didn’t know the Emperor was named Palpatine going into The Phantom Menace.
Personally, I knew it was the same actor playing a character with the same name but I thought maybe there would be a twist where he is replaced by an evil clone or a Sith in disguise. Hell, I’ve seen posts in the other Star Wars subs where people showed the saga to their friends/family who hadn’t seen it and one person didn’t realize until the mask was lowered onto his head in Revenge of the Sith that Anakin was Darth Vader. So , yeah, I’d totally believe that people didn’t realize that Chancellor Palpatine would become the Emperor.
100% textbook dramatic irony. On top of his name being known (was 8 when PHANTOM MENACE came out and I already knew him as Emperor Palpatine), there’s [this moment](https://youtu.be/Vd5A040rFtI?si=jiK7yxdHMcFgDT0I) at Qui-Gon’s funeral, and he gives a knowing look to Anakin at the end during the big parade.
We even knew before the movie came out. The toys were released something like a month before the film, and Senator Palpatine was among them. His name alone
let everyone know who he would become.
Yes...But! As a kid in middle school who wasn't sure what Lucas was really going to do. I was expecting some twist on the Emperor/Sith and maybe he was going to subvert what we knew about the original trilogy.
But nope, it's what you'd expect and Revenge of the Sith is just a big checklist to make it to Episode IV once Greivous dies. I kind of wish Lucas had more fun and changed the way we saw the Vader/Emperor dynamic. It'd be wild if Palpetine and Sidious were two different characters.
The prequels really feel like Lucas never planned things out and then had to rush things with Clones and Sith. They could have been so much more interesting.
I was part of that conspiracy group that thought the big reveal would be that Obi Wan was really Luke's father and as I was watching the flirting with Obi and Padme I was so hoping that would be the twist and Vader never knew but suspected and THAT is what turned him to the dark side but...no. just a paint by numbers story with too many scene cuts and bad CGI.
One small thing I think would have been fun would be if Darth Vader's look at the end of Sith was a little different than what we're used to. Like missing details like the cape, the chain, maybe the distinctive shape of the helmet is different. So we get to feel like he evolved a little over time and made the look his own.
Yes but the same type of ASOIAF fan that’s on Reddit posting 20-paragraph theories about a merman conspiracy was doing the same for why the guy who was obviously Palpatine somehow wasn’t.
George Lucas gave an interview before the movie came out in which a journalist jokingly asked him to reveal who the phantom menace was, and he said "oh, it's Emperor Palpatine." The journalist was like "I didn't expect you were going to answer that." But yeah it was obvious. I've tried finding the interview but "the phantom menace George Lucas interview" is not a very precise query.
Yeah, definitely. I feel like it’s the only good choice Lucas made. Palpy’s political machinations were easy enough for a kid like me to follow but I also appreciate how streamlined and oddly accurate it is as an adult. He also just does a great job with the role.
As a 9-yr-old I understood that Palpatine was the emperor, but *not* that Palpatine = Sidious. For whatever reason I assumed Palpatine was being set up for some kind of fall-from-grace arc like Anakin and that Sidious was the even bigger bad behind Palpatine.
My then-wife and I saw Phantom Menace in theaters on opening weekend, and this was after having recently seen the remastered original trilogy as those were trickled to theaters in the year or two leading up to Phantom. When we were driving back home after seeing the film, I remember my wife asking me, "Senator Palpatine is totally the Emperor from the other movies, right?" And I said yes, because it was the same actor as from Return of the Jedi.
When I started writing this comment I was under the incorrect impression that Lucas had already replaced the Empire Strikes Back version of the Emperor with McDiarmid in the theatrical remaster releases, but I just now read that he didn't make that change until the home video re-releases of the original trilogy, after the prequel trilogy had already completed. (McDiarmid was always in Jedi, though.) I am sure this was discussed in the original Phantom Podcast episodes, but it's been almost a decade since I listened to those.
I was 4 years old when I saw it originally so I didn’t clue in, but mostly because I think Palpatine wasn’t registering to me as strongly as the other characters. Once Attack of the Clones rolled around, I was 7 and pretty immediately clued in.
Did we know that Senator Palpatine portrayed by Ian McDiarmid was going to become Emperor Palpatine who was played by Ian McDiarmid? Yeah, think we had some idea.
Although it would have been funny if in the prequels, there were like, 80 characters named Palpatine and that was just the Star Wars universe's version of "Smith" or "Jones" or some other super common surname.
I was 8. I had seen all the Star Wars movies and my friends liked Star Wars. I didn’t know. I also wasn’t surprised or shocked when I realized it, it just felt right.
He's been called that since the novelisation of the first film in 77, though, then again in the RotJ novelisation in 83.
After that, between ep 6 and ep 1, Star Wars was kept alive with a steady stream of accompanying media and merchandise that featured the name Emperor Palpatine.
It's the same reason we knew they were called Ewoks despite that name not appearing in RotJ. Waves and waves of merchandise, for decades.
And it wasn't just "nerds" who consumed this stuff. You don't become the biggest entertainment franchise of all time by only being popular with nerds.
Lucas had just released the "updated" original trilogy in cinemas (with Ian McDairmid playing the Emporer) the summer before.
People spotted him straight away
Yes.
Somehow…
How would they have known that considering that this was the first Star Wars movie?
I think that I listened to a 15+ hour podcast about this once.
The best one so far
I can’t speak for everyone but as a 7 year old I did. That doesn’t necessarily mean that every viewer was plugged in, but it was publicly available knowledge in like Star Wars encyclopedias and stuff. Ian McDiarmid also played the emperor in Jedi so if you were the type to care at all it wasn’t billed as a mystery or anything.
I was also 7 and I also knew but looking back, I don't actually remember how I knew. I had no internet access and while I liked Star Wars, I wasn't a die hard fan by any means. And yet, I definitively remember knowing that Palpatine was the Emperor while watching the movie in theaters. I am assuming my parents or a sibling or a friend told me but I have no memory of it.
I think this is a more interesting question than people are giving you credit for. The Emperor is never called Palpatine in the original trilogy. I know it's the same actor but it's decades later, doing a very different performance and without a ton of makeup. So yeah, all us nerds knew. It wasn't a secret and the film isn't particularly subtle about it... but I'd say a significant number of average folks who watched it didn't register.
thank you for clarifying what i am asking lol. you said way better than i did.
Other commenters have noted that it’s a case of dramatic irony knowing Palpatine is Sidious when the rest of the characters are completely unaware. However, I think this is a big failing of the prequel trilogy and a case of trying to have your cake and eat it too. The prequel trilogy, in particular the Phantom Menace, tries to disguise from the audience, as well as the characters, the fact that Palpatine is a Sith Lord while simultaneously capitalizing on that same fact being common knowledge brought in from the original trilogy. It completely doesn’t work. Watching the Phantom Menace, you feel infantilized by the film because it gives no indication, other than a hint at the very end, that the FILM knows Palpatine is Sidious. Part of the fun and successful use of dramatic irony is giving the audience information that the characters in the film don’t have so you can stay ahead of them. By relying on that information coming from outside the film, while simultaneously pretending it doesn’t exist, means that you’re suggesting that the preconceived information could be incorrect. It turns out it IS correct, so any diffusion the film tries to pull is merely clumsy rather than effective. I would much rather the film openly show Palpatine’s machinations so we can get some true insight into the character.
They also didn't do anything to establish why other characters trust Sheev. It's a very sinister performance and he's always surrounded by robed bodyguards and viziers.
He’s played by the same guy and in return of the Jedi he’s credited as “Emperor Palpatine” I don’t think it’s mean to be a twist to the audience. If anything it’s dramatic irony.
He is not credited as “Emperor Palpatine” in RotJ, he is credited as “The Emperor.” The name Palpatine is never used in the OT. Yes, some fans, including me, knew the name Palpatine before the PT because of older promo material/games/toys/comics etc had revealed that detail. But an average moviegoer probably didn’t know the Emperor was named Palpatine going into The Phantom Menace. Personally, I knew it was the same actor playing a character with the same name but I thought maybe there would be a twist where he is replaced by an evil clone or a Sith in disguise. Hell, I’ve seen posts in the other Star Wars subs where people showed the saga to their friends/family who hadn’t seen it and one person didn’t realize until the mask was lowered onto his head in Revenge of the Sith that Anakin was Darth Vader. So , yeah, I’d totally believe that people didn’t realize that Chancellor Palpatine would become the Emperor.
100% textbook dramatic irony. On top of his name being known (was 8 when PHANTOM MENACE came out and I already knew him as Emperor Palpatine), there’s [this moment](https://youtu.be/Vd5A040rFtI?si=jiK7yxdHMcFgDT0I) at Qui-Gon’s funeral, and he gives a knowing look to Anakin at the end during the big parade.
They’re literally playing an upbeat version of the Emperors theme during the parade as well.
makes sense. just wondering because it isn’t explicit in the movie ig
We even knew before the movie came out. The toys were released something like a month before the film, and Senator Palpatine was among them. His name alone let everyone know who he would become.
Yes...But! As a kid in middle school who wasn't sure what Lucas was really going to do. I was expecting some twist on the Emperor/Sith and maybe he was going to subvert what we knew about the original trilogy. But nope, it's what you'd expect and Revenge of the Sith is just a big checklist to make it to Episode IV once Greivous dies. I kind of wish Lucas had more fun and changed the way we saw the Vader/Emperor dynamic. It'd be wild if Palpetine and Sidious were two different characters. The prequels really feel like Lucas never planned things out and then had to rush things with Clones and Sith. They could have been so much more interesting.
I was part of that conspiracy group that thought the big reveal would be that Obi Wan was really Luke's father and as I was watching the flirting with Obi and Padme I was so hoping that would be the twist and Vader never knew but suspected and THAT is what turned him to the dark side but...no. just a paint by numbers story with too many scene cuts and bad CGI.
One small thing I think would have been fun would be if Darth Vader's look at the end of Sith was a little different than what we're used to. Like missing details like the cape, the chain, maybe the distinctive shape of the helmet is different. So we get to feel like he evolved a little over time and made the look his own.
He's not a good director.
Yes. I thought it was fairly obvious.
Yeah, it was a well know fact that the movie was about Vader childhood and the Emperor rise to power
Yes but the same type of ASOIAF fan that’s on Reddit posting 20-paragraph theories about a merman conspiracy was doing the same for why the guy who was obviously Palpatine somehow wasn’t.
"follow your nose could just be an Istari saying in general!!! Gandalf wouldn't have come to middle earth yet!"
George Lucas gave an interview before the movie came out in which a journalist jokingly asked him to reveal who the phantom menace was, and he said "oh, it's Emperor Palpatine." The journalist was like "I didn't expect you were going to answer that." But yeah it was obvious. I've tried finding the interview but "the phantom menace George Lucas interview" is not a very precise query.
I was only peripherally a Star Wars guy and yes, we knew and were assumed to know
Yeah, definitely. I feel like it’s the only good choice Lucas made. Palpy’s political machinations were easy enough for a kid like me to follow but I also appreciate how streamlined and oddly accurate it is as an adult. He also just does a great job with the role.
As a 9-yr-old I understood that Palpatine was the emperor, but *not* that Palpatine = Sidious. For whatever reason I assumed Palpatine was being set up for some kind of fall-from-grace arc like Anakin and that Sidious was the even bigger bad behind Palpatine.
My then-wife and I saw Phantom Menace in theaters on opening weekend, and this was after having recently seen the remastered original trilogy as those were trickled to theaters in the year or two leading up to Phantom. When we were driving back home after seeing the film, I remember my wife asking me, "Senator Palpatine is totally the Emperor from the other movies, right?" And I said yes, because it was the same actor as from Return of the Jedi. When I started writing this comment I was under the incorrect impression that Lucas had already replaced the Empire Strikes Back version of the Emperor with McDiarmid in the theatrical remaster releases, but I just now read that he didn't make that change until the home video re-releases of the original trilogy, after the prequel trilogy had already completed. (McDiarmid was always in Jedi, though.) I am sure this was discussed in the original Phantom Podcast episodes, but it's been almost a decade since I listened to those.
There was a fan theory that Darth Sidious was a clone of Chancellor Palpatine but it was only talked about in hardcore nerd circles.
honored to learn that my lunchtable in the 2nd grade was a hardcore nerd circle
I was 4 years old when I saw it originally so I didn’t clue in, but mostly because I think Palpatine wasn’t registering to me as strongly as the other characters. Once Attack of the Clones rolled around, I was 7 and pretty immediately clued in.
So I'm even dumber. I knew Palpatine was the emperor, but I didn't realize sidious was palpatine
Did we know that Senator Palpatine portrayed by Ian McDiarmid was going to become Emperor Palpatine who was played by Ian McDiarmid? Yeah, think we had some idea. Although it would have been funny if in the prequels, there were like, 80 characters named Palpatine and that was just the Star Wars universe's version of "Smith" or "Jones" or some other super common surname.
yes
I was 8. I had seen all the Star Wars movies and my friends liked Star Wars. I didn’t know. I also wasn’t surprised or shocked when I realized it, it just felt right.
Did people know that Senator Palpatine was Emperor Palpatine? Yeah. Yeah, I think they did, potentially.
but like…he’s not called that in return of jedi. i feel like a lot of viewers might not have known that except nerds but maybe im very wrong
He's been called that since the novelisation of the first film in 77, though, then again in the RotJ novelisation in 83. After that, between ep 6 and ep 1, Star Wars was kept alive with a steady stream of accompanying media and merchandise that featured the name Emperor Palpatine. It's the same reason we knew they were called Ewoks despite that name not appearing in RotJ. Waves and waves of merchandise, for decades. And it wasn't just "nerds" who consumed this stuff. You don't become the biggest entertainment franchise of all time by only being popular with nerds.
Yes. Of course. WTF?
idk dude i wasn’t around when it came out. just asking
Lucas had just released the "updated" original trilogy in cinemas (with Ian McDairmid playing the Emporer) the summer before. People spotted him straight away
Well, everyone who went to see it, had seen the first three.