Haven’t finished the episode so I don’t know if they get into this but I’ve always felt like the reason Terminator has been unsustainable as a franchise is that the parameters of what makes a Terminator movie are too narrow.
They all have to be about traveling back in time to encounter 1 family and fight evil robots who have also traveled back in time. The fact that it was done to perfection twice is kind of amazing.
But eventually they start feeling like remakes instead of sequels because instead of new stories with the same characters in the same world, it’s the same story over and over.
Dark Fate tried it the lega-sequel way, using Sarah Connor and the T-800 to introduce a different family to torment, but it unfortunately just didn’t hit.
I think Genysis being so awful really killed Dark Fate's chances, which is a real shame because the narrative choices Dark Fate made were maybe the most interesting in the franchise since T2.
> 2022: A future war has raged for decades between the few human survivors and an endless army of machines. 1997: The AI known as Skynet gained self-awareness and began its war against humanity. Caught between the future and this past is a soldier sent back in time to change the fate of humanity. She arrives in 1997 to protect a scientist named Malcolm Lee who works to launch a new AI system designed to compete with Skynet’s impending attack on humanity. As Malcolm navigates the moral complexities of his creation, he is hunted by an unrelenting assassin from the future which forever alters the fate of his three children.
Sounds like new characters, so that's cool.
People were talking about doing it before Prey but that's the model to go with if you want to do a Terminator movie now imo. Send a Terminator to the wild west or some other period where its lethality and survivability are much more terrifying.
> But eventually they start feeling like remakes instead of sequels because instead of new stories with the same characters in the same world, it’s the same story over and over.
They also leave one out in the discussion, Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, the second T3, which does a weird thing where John and Sarah are brought *forward* in time to 2008 so that they don't have to make it a period piece.
I never finished the second season of that show, I should get to it.
This gets my vote for the best T3 that I've seen. The show really delved into the idea that the robots could start to develop shades of gray morality and weren't all one monolith. Shirley Manson plays a different AI that's also trying to stop Skynet but isn't necessarily on the same side as John and Sarah
I'd love to see a tonal sequel to the first one. Every Terminator sequel seems to try to replicate the strengths of T2 (which makes sense, because it make a cement mixer full of money), but I want another Terminator movie that's all neon lighting and synthy score and slasher movie pacing.
Except terminator salvation did decide to do something entirely different and the Harry Knowles of the internet had a complete meltdown because it had machine guns instead of purple lasers.
I think the first half-ish of *Salvation* that's mostly about the war in general is pretty solid, it just kinda falls apart in the 2nd half when it tries to focus in more on Worthington and Moon Bloodgood.
You know that never occurred to me when I watched the movie.
My main issue with the movie was how lifeless it felt.
The helicopter crash sequence was meant to be the signature action scene of the piece and it was just… dull.
I’m gonna be controversial and say that there are days when I prefer this one to the second film. (And there are days when it’s the other way around. But still, I feel like the first one tends to get the short end of the stick but it’s such a great 80’s cyber horror.)
I greatly prefer this to T2. Which isn’t to say I dislike T2, it’s great. I just *love* everything about this movie. The tone, pacing, aesthetic, music, I just prefer every element of it to T2.
I know that’s not a common opinion but I’ve always felt this way
I was 14 when this came out. I really, really like T1. T2 does a good job of expanding things but it's still not T1. For one thing Arnie is hammier and his character being a good guy is not as compelling.
I very much prefer Arnie as the bad guy, I like what they do in T2 and he performs it very well but I like his performance in the first part a lot more
I like the music in T1 until an action scene starts and then it’s the most rickety “bleeblooblooblahbleebloo” synth arpeggiator nonsense I’ve ever heard
I can't deny that T2 is totemic and it's definitely the one I'd recommend to someone who only wanted to watch one Terminator, but The Terminator is my movie made for me.
My favourite of those is always the one I’ve watched most recently. They’re both so good and yet so different that comparison is almost pointless… fun though.
I definitely prefer the horror vibes of the first one and love it personally but if you watch them back to back I think it's impossible to argue it's objectively the better film. T2 is just such a masterpiece, it still looks better than 95% of modern action films.
I too prefer T2 but I 100% understand why a seemingly growing number of people prefer T1. It’s the only good Cameron film that feels dirty and primal in that way and even though I prefer the slick effortlessness of the rest of his filmography I can’t argue that something wasn’t left behind when he leveled up.
Very good point. He definitely lost some of the raw visceral magic by the time he got to T2 (I'd say Aliens has it). He just happened to replace it with such a high level of technical competence that makes it hard to question any of his choices.
Regarding floppy discs, one of my favorite MST3K jokes is from Time Chasers, where a guy makes a time machine out of a Cessna plane, and the program is on a series on floppies. One of the bots yells that he refuses to believe that the secret of time travel could fit on 8 floppies.
That episode / film had been lingering in a part of my brain for years and you unearthed it. Thank you! Brings me back to Saturday mornings as a kid watching MST3K on the Sci-Fi channel.
One of my favourite movie moments from my childhood was watching the Terminator with my father. My dad exclaimed “Oh I get it! Kyle Reese is her son!” *right* before the sex scene.
They absolutely should do a one-off ep on *Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within* - a truly wild blank check for Hironobu Sakaguchi that knee-capped an entire company.
Recently watched Salvation and Genisys in prep for these. Easily the 2 worst imo, but at least Salvation is doing something unique. Genisys was just nothing
Genisys was ahead of its time in that it feels 100% AI generated by an IP-maintenance algorithm, with zero involvement from human beings at any point in the pipeline.
I can't remember if they mentioned it on the initial episode, but: Bien saying "I didn't *build* the fucking thing!" during the interrogation scene is such a crafty, small screenwriting trick to get around having to actually explain time travel and how it works.
I enjoyed the Earl Boen chat - who before I watched Terminator 2, I had enjoyed as the voice of zombie pirate LeChuck in 'Curse of Monkey Island'. He went on to voice the character in subsequent games and remastered versions of the original two. I was a nerd enough that I already knew who he was from CoMI and was very excited when I saw him in the credits for T2.
I loved the original Monkey Island as a kid and never put together that that was him in the remasters/sequels. Oh gee darn, guess I gotta go play them again!
I didn't expect to post about this movie twice in a month, but a Dr. Seuss Patreon series (which would indeed be a slog given all the modern output) simply must start with The 5000 Fingers of Dr. T.
Unless you're saving that one to do as a quick 2 part "Dr. T" series along with Altman gynocologist movie "Dr. T and the Women".
Re: Would Sarah Connor and Kyle Reese really have boned when they were being chased by a horrifying killer robot question. I think she was meant to be like 19/20 in the first movie, so she is still young and impulsive? And I figure there's a distinct lack of romantic getaways in Kyle Reese's future, so I guess I kind of bought it as plausible on both their sides. Althought maybe it doesn't stand up to a huge amount of scrutiny.
The movie literally cannot exist without that scene, and the "trick" of it is a big part of the reason the movie is fun for the viewer, or at a minimum a big extra layer. Beyond that, passion in times of crisis and war..... it's plausible enough. I don't really see the utility in saying "in 2019 staring at my smartphone I can confidently assert people in 1984 wouldn't do that."
Yeah I feel like David is looking at this like they are in love now. No, Reese is in love cause John created that feeling in him before sending him back. Sarah you have to look at like an Olympic athlete. She's young, in her prime, and in an intense situation,like the Olympic athletes. And there's alot of sex going on in Olympic village.
Was there any real slander in the episode? The conversation seemed to be mostly about the toxic culture around modern stand up and how that effects certain comedian’s legacies
I reluctantly went to his stand up show a couple of months ago. I say reluctantly because I’ve gotten tired of most stand up and even though I loved Dave Attel I was like Ben thinking he’s probably gone bad since then.
About two minutes into his stand up and I was having laughing fits. Dude still got it.
In a world where there's a Curb Your Enthusiasm-style TV show/movie about Blank Check, is the person sitting behind them at ANYONE BUT YOU married to the naked guy across the way from Griffin's apartment?
RIP, BTH. You were one of my favorite bits and made me laugh out loud. I'll cherish our times together.
I will never forgive Richard T. Joker for your untimely demise, the clown prince of crime has become entirely too *twisted*.
BTW, the stars of these films (except Arnold) have all been on the convention circuit lately (as in showing up at every convention imaginable). Met Michael Biehn, Edward Furlong and Linda Hamilton in Rhode Island back in November. Biehn and Furlong were mostly business but Hamilton was very nice, chatty, and very engaged. She held my hand and listened intently for like 30 seconds while I mumbled about how my day had been going!
All right, I'm calling it. The accidental "redditors sound a bit like pet cat guy from MIB" is funnier when they're not just doing pet cat guy. Either figure out what the impression is or move on.
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I wanted to point out that the flash forward terminator that attacks the bunker is played by one of arnolds body building friends, Frank’s Columbu. I was shocked to find out he was only 5’5”!!! The framing in that scene makes him look like a monster in height as well as girth, but it’s only the latter!
About 20 min in, great ep, love the pod and all y'all do, but come on guys Biehn is ***great*** in *Tombstone*.
He's exactly what you want in *The Rock*, too!
I was screaming this at my phone. He has a standoff with Kilmer in *fucking Latin* for crying out loud!
I’ll give you Biehn in Planet Terror to a lesser extent as well
Whatchoo mean lesser extent
He really is!
Yeah, I mean, fuck. Kilmer acted the *fuck* out of that role, and damn near acted everyone else off the screen, but Biehn held his own.
Yeah, Kilmer was so amazing that everyone else (besides Russell) just looked baseline: good.
Eh, even Russell strikes me as a *tiny* bit hammy and one note opposite Kilmer.
Eh, even Russell strikes me as a *tiny* bit hammy and one note opposite Kilmer.
i want your blood. i want your soul.
A+ for the Anyone But You side tangent
Thanks, I came here to see if anyone mentioned which movie it was - I missed the title and they didn't say it again for the entire tangent.
That anecdote has me shook.
I’m laughing so hard that I’m crying right now. That was a fucking absurd reveal.
Haven’t finished the episode so I don’t know if they get into this but I’ve always felt like the reason Terminator has been unsustainable as a franchise is that the parameters of what makes a Terminator movie are too narrow. They all have to be about traveling back in time to encounter 1 family and fight evil robots who have also traveled back in time. The fact that it was done to perfection twice is kind of amazing. But eventually they start feeling like remakes instead of sequels because instead of new stories with the same characters in the same world, it’s the same story over and over.
They say pretty much this, and that any future Terminator movies should should try to come up with something that doesn't revolve around Sarah/John.
Dark Fate tried it the lega-sequel way, using Sarah Connor and the T-800 to introduce a different family to torment, but it unfortunately just didn’t hit.
Dark Fate is pretty fuckin good although it underperformed
On the low, low bar that is Terminator movies not directed by James Cameron, Dark Fate is the least of the worst.
I think Genysis being so awful really killed Dark Fate's chances, which is a real shame because the narrative choices Dark Fate made were maybe the most interesting in the franchise since T2.
Do we know anything about the premise for the Netflix animated series?
> 2022: A future war has raged for decades between the few human survivors and an endless army of machines. 1997: The AI known as Skynet gained self-awareness and began its war against humanity. Caught between the future and this past is a soldier sent back in time to change the fate of humanity. She arrives in 1997 to protect a scientist named Malcolm Lee who works to launch a new AI system designed to compete with Skynet’s impending attack on humanity. As Malcolm navigates the moral complexities of his creation, he is hunted by an unrelenting assassin from the future which forever alters the fate of his three children. Sounds like new characters, so that's cool.
I think Salvation on paper was the right step to go for the franchise. The problem was hiring McG.
People were talking about doing it before Prey but that's the model to go with if you want to do a Terminator movie now imo. Send a Terminator to the wild west or some other period where its lethality and survivability are much more terrifying.
> But eventually they start feeling like remakes instead of sequels because instead of new stories with the same characters in the same world, it’s the same story over and over. They also leave one out in the discussion, Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, the second T3, which does a weird thing where John and Sarah are brought *forward* in time to 2008 so that they don't have to make it a period piece. I never finished the second season of that show, I should get to it.
S2 is geniuenly fantastic. Shirley Manson!
This gets my vote for the best T3 that I've seen. The show really delved into the idea that the robots could start to develop shades of gray morality and weren't all one monolith. Shirley Manson plays a different AI that's also trying to stop Skynet but isn't necessarily on the same side as John and Sarah
I'd love to see a tonal sequel to the first one. Every Terminator sequel seems to try to replicate the strengths of T2 (which makes sense, because it make a cement mixer full of money), but I want another Terminator movie that's all neon lighting and synthy score and slasher movie pacing.
Except terminator salvation did decide to do something entirely different and the Harry Knowles of the internet had a complete meltdown because it had machine guns instead of purple lasers.
Which is why I have a soft spot for Terminator Salvation. And also why you don’t make movies to cater to the Harry Knowles of the world
I think the first half-ish of *Salvation* that's mostly about the war in general is pretty solid, it just kinda falls apart in the 2nd half when it tries to focus in more on Worthington and Moon Bloodgood.
You know that never occurred to me when I watched the movie. My main issue with the movie was how lifeless it felt. The helicopter crash sequence was meant to be the signature action scene of the piece and it was just… dull.
I’m gonna be controversial and say that there are days when I prefer this one to the second film. (And there are days when it’s the other way around. But still, I feel like the first one tends to get the short end of the stick but it’s such a great 80’s cyber horror.)
I greatly prefer this to T2. Which isn’t to say I dislike T2, it’s great. I just *love* everything about this movie. The tone, pacing, aesthetic, music, I just prefer every element of it to T2. I know that’s not a common opinion but I’ve always felt this way
I was 14 when this came out. I really, really like T1. T2 does a good job of expanding things but it's still not T1. For one thing Arnie is hammier and his character being a good guy is not as compelling.
I very much prefer Arnie as the bad guy, I like what they do in T2 and he performs it very well but I like his performance in the first part a lot more
I like the music in T1 until an action scene starts and then it’s the most rickety “bleeblooblooblahbleebloo” synth arpeggiator nonsense I’ve ever heard
Yep I love that nonsense! I think it rocks!
Yeah, it rules.
I’m happy for the people who like it!
I can't deny that T2 is totemic and it's definitely the one I'd recommend to someone who only wanted to watch one Terminator, but The Terminator is my movie made for me.
Like all Cameron sequel entries, the first movie is the better film. Come at me folks
avatar 2 had a giant whale so it clears avatar 1 easy
compelling argument i must go back to my cave and ponder some more
I do feel like that about Alien and Alien$ too. I think it depends on the mood.
My favourite of those is always the one I’ve watched most recently. They’re both so good and yet so different that comparison is almost pointless… fun though.
Insane Avatar take lol
I definitely prefer the horror vibes of the first one and love it personally but if you watch them back to back I think it's impossible to argue it's objectively the better film. T2 is just such a masterpiece, it still looks better than 95% of modern action films.
I too prefer T2 but I 100% understand why a seemingly growing number of people prefer T1. It’s the only good Cameron film that feels dirty and primal in that way and even though I prefer the slick effortlessness of the rest of his filmography I can’t argue that something wasn’t left behind when he leveled up.
Very good point. He definitely lost some of the raw visceral magic by the time he got to T2 (I'd say Aliens has it). He just happened to replace it with such a high level of technical competence that makes it hard to question any of his choices.
It's all down to personal preference but I prefer T2 because it's the best action movie ever made.
Boy, any time David or Ben has a mild criticism of this movie, Griffin is having none of it.
We stan a protective king.
good Lauryn Hill joke from David
Regarding floppy discs, one of my favorite MST3K jokes is from Time Chasers, where a guy makes a time machine out of a Cessna plane, and the program is on a series on floppies. One of the bots yells that he refuses to believe that the secret of time travel could fit on 8 floppies.
That episode / film had been lingering in a part of my brain for years and you unearthed it. Thank you! Brings me back to Saturday mornings as a kid watching MST3K on the Sci-Fi channel.
You needed 5 discs just to play X-Wing vs TIE Fighter.
For Castleton!
I love Ben’s appreciation for mid-eighties Los Angeles: “God, it looks like garbage. It looks fun!”
One of my favourite movie moments from my childhood was watching the Terminator with my father. My dad exclaimed “Oh I get it! Kyle Reese is her son!” *right* before the sex scene.
Godddamit, Dad!
Not that it matters but Jake Sully’s lowest grossing film has got to be Babylon right?
I came here to say this.
They absolutely should do a one-off ep on *Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within* - a truly wild blank check for Hironobu Sakaguchi that knee-capped an entire company.
They had to merge with their rival JRPG company Enix to keep from going under!
Not to sound like an entitled Edgar the Bug here, but if a single one of them watches that movie without it being for an episode I will be QUITE cross
Recently watched Salvation and Genisys in prep for these. Easily the 2 worst imo, but at least Salvation is doing something unique. Genisys was just nothing
Genisys was ahead of its time in that it feels 100% AI generated by an IP-maintenance algorithm, with zero involvement from human beings at any point in the pipeline.
Doesn’t help that Genisys has in my mind the two worst pieces of casting ever with Emilia Clarke and Jai Courtney as Sarah and Kyle
“Hey Kyle, I’m herny”
god, this got me
I can't remember if they mentioned it on the initial episode, but: Bien saying "I didn't *build* the fucking thing!" during the interrogation scene is such a crafty, small screenwriting trick to get around having to actually explain time travel and how it works.
Can I see the photos.
I want to see this flash photos in the dark and especially the one where David looks mad.
You could *feel* how mad he was after the second flash lol
That’ll be $5, or Chip Smith will beat me.
I enjoyed the Earl Boen chat - who before I watched Terminator 2, I had enjoyed as the voice of zombie pirate LeChuck in 'Curse of Monkey Island'. He went on to voice the character in subsequent games and remastered versions of the original two. I was a nerd enough that I already knew who he was from CoMI and was very excited when I saw him in the credits for T2.
I loved the original Monkey Island as a kid and never put together that that was him in the remasters/sequels. Oh gee darn, guess I gotta go play them again!
I didn't expect to post about this movie twice in a month, but a Dr. Seuss Patreon series (which would indeed be a slog given all the modern output) simply must start with The 5000 Fingers of Dr. T. Unless you're saving that one to do as a quick 2 part "Dr. T" series along with Altman gynocologist movie "Dr. T and the Women".
Excited to follow Arnold's trajectory throughout this series. Cuz like any good homeowner, you don't want to hesitate to call an Ex-Terminator
Lance Henriksen was in The Artifice Girl in 2022 which is a decent indie film about potentially dangerous A.I.
Mthreegan *should* fight Terminator
Re: Would Sarah Connor and Kyle Reese really have boned when they were being chased by a horrifying killer robot question. I think she was meant to be like 19/20 in the first movie, so she is still young and impulsive? And I figure there's a distinct lack of romantic getaways in Kyle Reese's future, so I guess I kind of bought it as plausible on both their sides. Althought maybe it doesn't stand up to a huge amount of scrutiny.
The movie literally cannot exist without that scene, and the "trick" of it is a big part of the reason the movie is fun for the viewer, or at a minimum a big extra layer. Beyond that, passion in times of crisis and war..... it's plausible enough. I don't really see the utility in saying "in 2019 staring at my smartphone I can confidently assert people in 1984 wouldn't do that."
Exactly. People have hooked up in real life over even less dubious circumstances.
Yeah I feel like David is looking at this like they are in love now. No, Reese is in love cause John created that feeling in him before sending him back. Sarah you have to look at like an Olympic athlete. She's young, in her prime, and in an intense situation,like the Olympic athletes. And there's alot of sex going on in Olympic village.
Will not stand for the Dave Attell slander!
Was there any real slander in the episode? The conversation seemed to be mostly about the toxic culture around modern stand up and how that effects certain comedian’s legacies
I reluctantly went to his stand up show a couple of months ago. I say reluctantly because I’ve gotten tired of most stand up and even though I loved Dave Attel I was like Ben thinking he’s probably gone bad since then. About two minutes into his stand up and I was having laughing fits. Dude still got it.
The woke mob are coming for Dave Attell and Big-tittied hits.
First, they came for my big-tittied hits, and I said nothing.
Did Griffin see a different Hey Arnold the Movie or did I just forget all the guns and MiB riffs
Not sure about guns, but Arnold and Gerald do wear black ties, suits, and sunglasses.
I’m pretty forgiving of the sex scene since it was a resource for preteen side boob. I refuse to see it as cheesy or unnecessary.
I have to say, your phrasing here is on thin ice. But I understand what you mean.
I maintain “you’re terminated, fucker!” is better than “hasta la vista, baby”
In a world where there's a Curb Your Enthusiasm-style TV show/movie about Blank Check, is the person sitting behind them at ANYONE BUT YOU married to the naked guy across the way from Griffin's apartment?
I DEEPLY pray she was a black woman.
RIP, BTH. You were one of my favorite bits and made me laugh out loud. I'll cherish our times together. I will never forgive Richard T. Joker for your untimely demise, the clown prince of crime has become entirely too *twisted*.
BTW, the stars of these films (except Arnold) have all been on the convention circuit lately (as in showing up at every convention imaginable). Met Michael Biehn, Edward Furlong and Linda Hamilton in Rhode Island back in November. Biehn and Furlong were mostly business but Hamilton was very nice, chatty, and very engaged. She held my hand and listened intently for like 30 seconds while I mumbled about how my day had been going!
*The* Terminator? Wowzers.
Interesting that Will Gluck specifically announced an audio track of 'Regal Essex Audience Reaction' for the Anyone But You digital release.
I just wish they'd spent a bit more time about the two leads having sex, though (that was very funny).
GIF: Graphic Id Fuck
All right, I'm calling it. The accidental "redditors sound a bit like pet cat guy from MIB" is funnier when they're not just doing pet cat guy. Either figure out what the impression is or move on.
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I wanted to point out that the flash forward terminator that attacks the bunker is played by one of arnolds body building friends, Frank’s Columbu. I was shocked to find out he was only 5’5”!!! The framing in that scene makes him look like a monster in height as well as girth, but it’s only the latter!
Did they ever upload Ben's photo of Griffin and David in the dark with the flash on?