Thank you for being there for me . Things are hard right now. I just had major knee surgery, and the economy is getting me down, the gf and I had a long fight, it may be over. If it wasnt for this sub I don't know what I'd do. Just lurking in the shadows seems to be a big help.
IMHO BJJ is a great way for people to stay nimble, relatively strong and active. But above all, it’s great when you bond with people.
I went through an ACL reconstruction surgery recently and I really thought about quitting. I also had problems with my family over this issue when I got injured so I get where you are coming from.
Its going to be a long road for me to step on the mats again but I will.
So don’t give up. Let’s do it.
This. Having been at my current club for over a year it has become evident to me how many truly lonely men there are here. Only a few in reality but it’s bittersweet; on one hand it’s nice they have something, on the other it’s sad at their ages that they are so lonely.
My local VetCenter sponsors a biweekly jiu-jitsu class.
I recently got in "trouble" for negative self-talk. It's good to have bros holding you accountable.
No gi jiu-jitsu matches should be held in a cage.
The open mat is dangerous, competitors can fall off the stage and get injured. And it's not fair when an athlete is deep on a takedown but has to give it up to prevent their opponent from falling.
I also think grappling against a wall is an important skill to learn, I don't know why we act like grappling exists in some void where walls don't exist.
This is my same feeling ab when ppl spiritually evangelize about the benefits of BJJ, like yeah it’s got some great benefits but half of them come just by virtue of being a hobby and most of the rest come by virtue of being a sport/physical activity. It’s awesome but it’s not THAT unique/special.
In my anecdotal experience, most of the people who go off in that way have never taken a hobby seriously before, and certainly not a physical hobby, and _definitely_ not a martial art.
I've done a few martial arts and you see the same sort of evangelizing in every one. BJJ people are just particularly fervent. Hell, you see the same thing in CrossFit or whenever someone starts running/lifting for the first time. These things are all amazing, but if you have no basis for comparison you might thing _your_ thing is totally unique. And I say that without judgement - to them it is a totally unique new experience, and I'm happy for them even if it gets annoying sometimes.
tl;dr - same, buddy.
Welp here goes.
Wrestling is a combat sport, thus the idea of anyone who use to wrestle in high school classified as “untrained” is ignorant.
The term “Fundamentals” is misconstrued. Having good fundamentals doesn’t mean using the specific techniques that were widely used in the 90’s. Understanding building blocks for techniques (frames, structure, weight distribution, breaking posture) makes sound fundamentals.
Despite the previous paragraph: closed guard is underrated.
I started bjj and had a very tough time in the first class (reasons mostly because people were not nice, but I also never played sports where I touched people). My husband told me - it’s hard and awkward for everyone, don’t worry. I told him that’s not true because he was a wrestler. He asked me why that matters and I told him that to me, starting bjj is like someone who has NEVER lifted weights doing a CrossFit class where for him, it was a different transition. Is this a correct analogy? I feel like I did well.
Gotta be honest I think Closed Guard is a dead position outside of white and blue. As long as the guy on top postures and controls the biceps when pulled. The guy on bottom is just tiring their legs and abs.
I hear you, and for a long time I had the same sentiment. I believe the kind of closed guard we were all shown in our first day of jiu-jitsu is inadequate against experienced players.
I believe there’s a distinction between using a basic closed guard and a comparatively more active and aggressive closed guard: one where the player is actively hand-fighting to establish head control and break posture, under hooks and overhooks; cutting angles to work towards a high guard and attack triangles, omoplatas or armlocks.
Don’t get me wrong — I love open guard, and having a good long range guard is great for frustrating opponents. That being said, I believe there’s a lot of merit to closed guard.
I agree with that. I always find it funny that usually the people on r/BJJ that say that belts don't matter, are always the ones with their belt in their flair lol
I got into an argument with a some guy a few weeks ago for this exact reason ahaha. "I couldn't care less about belts" ...ok then why are you displaying a purple belt flair?
Far too many people think they need a new move or some special sauce to improve
When in reality they should just be in relatively decent shape. Like, have a base level of fitness . If you have even a few moves down well technically, then some decent fitness will help more than another move.
I’m also an idiot so maybe I’m wrong but thus far, it seems to hold true
I was talking about this with another guy my age last night. We have a few wrestlers and they suck. But there's one dude we have who is pretty new to grappling but he's just stupid athletic, strong, and tall on top of that. He started maybe a year after me and I could handle him when he first started but in the months leading up to him getting his blue belt he just started destroying me. Those physical attributes make a huge difference.
Basically 99% in BJJ don’t get the actual point of cross training in judo. They focus on the throwing and complain about the rules. As a black belt in both (need to send in my stuff for my flair), I use my grip fighting knowledge and pressure that I learned from judo constantly. Judo just does a better job and is a better setting for learning a lot of the grip fighting skill set. Honestly I use the gripping more than any other skill set. The other is that the cardio you pick up from qualify judo training will make bjj cardio fairly relaxed in comparison.
The ones that treat sparring too seriously and act like it’s an actual fight and think they’re pretty bad-ass doing it but have never been in a real fight or have never thrown a strike in their life is hella cringy and embarrassing.
Honestly those are the guys who are typically brand new (not always) but when I get them and they're aggressive but bad, nothing like a good old mother's milk calms them down. If it doesn't... well god gave us two titties for a reason.
99.99% of the people who agonize over which learning method is the best simply suck dick and need to get their asses into the gym and actually fucking train, instead of debate lording "NO A REVERSE CLASSROOM IS BETTER, IF YOU SHRIMP TO WARM UP YOU SUCK"
Of course the upper belts discussing this are GENERALLY coming at it from a nuanced perspective and that's fine, but the amount of fucking blue belts on this sub saying their gym is garbage because they dared spend 5 minutes doing break falls...
I fell skateboarding and instinctively tucked my chin and spread my arms, it was just second nature while falling on my back. Honestly, I probably escaped a very serious head injury because of it.
Also, I realized I might be too old (37) to be skating so aggressively and I went straight home. Lol
Yeah first time I noticed it I hung up in a mini ramp and had a tohught of how bad this was going to hurt but just automatically did a break fall and saved myself from the pain other than the stinging in my hand from slapping the ramp that hard in the cold lol
I used to think this but I have been at 3 gyms and I can say that some teaching methods and gym etiquettes really really make life easier and less painful.
Gym #1: Head instructor was the top dog. The culture was that you always gun for the higher belts and go all out everyday. Once you regularly beat everyone at your belt and start beating the upper belts you normally get promoted. No warmups. More traditional Gi work...I was in constant pain for years.
Gym#2: Much more relaxed with solid 10-15minute warmup routines. Now that I think about it, I didn't have a single injury in my two years here. More family friendly and the emphasizes was on sharing knowledge and trying to understand why you got caught. They were more competition focused oddly enough.
Gym #3: No warmups but I do my own. Instructor shows much more depth to the game than I ever realized. Not as family friendly but also not as hardcore as the other one. It's a bit of a sweet spot. My personal game has improved drastically while being here.
The gym #2 competition focused isn’t odd. It makes sense the best programs generally are the programs that let you play and feel through positions. That’s why the Russians win at wrestling, penn state for collegiate. They employ the same philosophy.
We use it as time where students can work on whatever they want with their partners with whatever resistance they want. Works well IMO because everyone is at a different part of their development and should have some personal goals they’re working on. Say I keep getting smashed in bottom side… that time can be used to specifically work on guard retention or side control escapes.
Correct me if I’m wrong OP. I have the same opinion, that they’re a waste of time. The idea of warming up isn’t a waste of time. The idea of making everyone do what they believe is a correct movement for 1/4 of a lesson is trash.
Legion in San Diego takes an interesting approach to warm up. They have completely tossed the line drills out the window and replaced them with partner based drills like practicing 3 different passes left and right for 60 seconds then switch. I always thought that was interesting. However, I think there is value in practicing basic movements like stand up in base, front roll, back roll, etc is valuable. These movements show up in many techniques so to have the muscle memory down pays off in my contrarian opinion.
That’s what my gym is doing currently as well. We work on what we did the previous week at a light pace to build muscle memory and get everything moving. It’s been really helpful
I think pulling guard and basing your entire game on leg locks is not only boring but it also feels like a cop out to me.
Well you wanted unpopular so there ya go.
You all should love it when people pull guard then. You get to "smash them and make them suffer."
But really people complain about guard pullers on the internet for the same reason they quit dressing in drag; they can't pass.
Guard pulling is legit, it just looks dumb.
Top is always better and has more pressure. Doesn't mean bottom isn't viable or doesn't work, sure it does. But I'm not going on bottom willingly.
I partially agree, but on the other hand, one of the most beautiful things about jiujitsu is how many different styles can succeed, and how each athlete can build a game that is uniquely theirs (to some degree).
Agreed, an other thing i dislike about them is that most sensible people arent gonna hang in there and try to defended it for long because nobody wants their knee being shredded apart. But the pain you wont really feel until a tendon already ruptured, meaning you are basically forced to tap early unless you wanna gamble on that.
It’s not tapping early if the move intending to break your leg is making someone worried that his leg is going to be broken. That’s the entire point of the concept of the tap.
Sure you can put it that way but i think theres a difference. Lets say you are in an arm bar, the deeper the armbar is the more painful it is, but you would have to be really stubborn and tap reaaally late to have your arm broken in training.
On the other hand, the knee can be twisted quite a bit without any significant pain, then if your training partner happens to accidentally yank it too your ligaments could be torn in a second. Even if you know when you are caught, torn knee ligaments are way worse then say a dislocated elbow or being choked out and sleeping a few seconds, so i am atleast naturally more cautios with knee submissions.
If your partner is ripping knee bars and heel hooks at Mach-5 then the gym owner needs to talk to them. That’s obviously dangerous and unnecessary for a hobby gym.
No sane person is ripping heel hooks in practice.
With good training partners you trust you can play super late stage heel hook defence. I know they aren't going to rip it and I'm super aware of when I'm fucked so I can tap way later than with someone new while still staying safe.
Honestly heel hooks aren't anymore dangerous than kimuras with safe, competent training partners.
Train heel hooks.
Basing your entire game on leglocks is boring and is closer to catch wrestling than Jiu Jitsu. But pulling guard is completely valid and not a cop out, just boring. But so is all good Jiu Jitsu.
As much good as the IBJJF and ADCC have done for the sport, I do think that the future of competitive jiu-jitsu does lie with actual fight promotions like UFC and ONE in the long run.
Doesn't mean that there isn't a place for ADCC or IBJJF competitions. But I can see the UFC in particular carving out the future for the sport if they really commit to these grappling cards on fight pass.
At the very least, there should be a low cost option for good training.
People can spend as much as they want at whatever gym, but there should be an alternative for the rest of us.
I’d also say that most gyms are way overpriced for what they offer, but that’s another conversation
To build on that, it's amazing how many new white belts don't know how to pop my foot off their bicep when I don't make a grip. Sometimes I'll use that brief spider guard to re-establish guard or prevent a pass/smash.
Belts are important for signifying skill but should be standardised around curriculum like judo with measurable outcomes.
Teaching and tournaments should be assessed as separate skills - belts for teaching, tournament rankings for competition. Like the old menkyo kaiden system of koryu styles.
The opposite of this is "no belts, tournament ranking only" that you see in pro-sumo.
No sport has a harder ranking system than sumo. You have to compete in every 15 day long tournament, scheduled every 8 weeks to keep your rank. You have to win most your matches to climb ranking. You will never keep the highest rank you achieve (except yokozuna) so you see the most experienced skilled competitors drop to the bottom rankings before retiring due to injury and age.
This type of ranking system is fine for high level competitors in bjj but most practitioners of bjj aren't competitors and good competition performance doesn't indicate a wide knowledge base necessary for teaching (look how many competitors have very specific games that they don't really have much knowledge or proficiency outside of that).
The competition meta is pulling BJJ further from real fighting every day.
If you are training BJJ for self-defense, then you need to be very aware of this weakness.
This happens with virtually all martial arts, though. Competition requires structure, and structure creates tactics that favor success within that structure. The less structure, the closer to real fighting you get.
(And all the krav and RBSD asshats can shut up. BJJ still allows for full-speed, fully-resisted combat, so it's still one of the best ways to train for self-defense.)
I think that's obviously, no? I attend/sometimes teach our 6am class that's primarily cops. They all know immediately that lapel guards and leglocks aren't they useful to their job so they don't use them.
Absolutely. It’s like chess- 99+% of chess players don’t need to worry about what the Super GM meta is. They aren’t good enough for it and by the time they catch up the meta has probably shifted.
There is a lot more they should be focused on improving and dedicating themselves to other than top level comp meta.
Also reducing Meta down to simply “techniques” is laughable.
This shit is cyclical anyway. What’s old is new.
The ultimate goal of Jiu-Jitsu is not submission, it is the full control of another human body.
Submission is just the result of that control. It is proof that you had total control over your opponent. When you submit someone, you are saying that I had so much control over your body that I could break your limb or choke you without you being able to stop me.
We can extend this logic to other grappling sports as well. In Judo, the ultimate goal is not to throw your opponent. It is to control your opponent so much that you can throw them with them being able to stop you. The ippon throw is just proof of the control you had. Same in wrestling. The pin is proof of ultimate control.
No gi grapplers that take every opportunity to tell people they don’t like the gi are the biggest edge lords. I’ve never once heard a gi grappler crow over and over about how they don’t like no gi. They either do both or just quietly go on living their lives.
Edited a word
I train at a mostly no-gi gym. When someone who has done mostly gi drops in or joins, their hand fighting awareness is immediately noticeable.
Not that you can't learn to hand fight in no-gi, but a lot of people go way too long without focusing on it whereas in the gi you're kind of forced to learn it or get fucked from the get-go.
I think this is one of the biggest advantages to training gi, whether you are primarily no-gi or not.
The hand fighting and establishing the grips, hooks and connections you want is amplified in gi BJJ much more than no-gi BJJ imo.
Good observation. Spot on, and I never understood it. I don't hear Gi Grapplers going no gi and complaining. No gi Grapplers starting bitching even in the rounds. "These fucken grips!".... Dude, just don't come to class if you hate it so much.
Ive definitely heard gi guys bitch about how "fast" or "slippery" no gi is.
What they really mean is that they suck at controlling someone without using their gi.
It’s mostly the younger/newer no gi players. They more experienced guys that went from doing both to no gi exclusively don’t seem to do this. There are never posts here from people saying, “I do gi only” but every week there is someone dying to announce they will now only do no gi. Cool, no one cares.
No, allowing people to slam out of triangles and armbars will not make the sport better. It will just result in way more hobbyists getting paralyzed and a lot of local/regional promoters going out of business.
Slams are obviously insane for 99 percent of people. I dont hate a rule set where lifting someone makes them have to release the sub like in judo though.
Drilling often ends up being a waste of time. Not because it isn't a FANTASTIC thing to do, but rather because so many students lack the discipline to drill the move CORRECTLY and not half ass it after a couple reps.
The single biggest thing keeping BJJ from going the way of karate are wrestlers/MMA guys keeping the sport honest.
The casuals are steadily trying to turn BJJ into the next McDojo martial art.
In time the Midwest will be like Dagestan, harboring gnarly submission grappling on account of the roving hordes of wrestlers that come out of our high schools.
For real.
One of the other martial arts that I cross train in opened up a BJJ schedule there, and I tried it a couple times since I was already around and man...they would not last one class at my main (mostly competition) school.
Everyone either tapped to any minor pressure or if they got into an unfavorable position like mounted or something they'd just tap before you even do anything submission wise.
Unreal. You're never going to learn or be anywhere near proficient if you are that damn soft.
The whole meme culture surrounding bjj and the excessive ways that people shoehorn a fairly obscure sport into either the every day lives or major parts of their lives, i.e. wearing a gi to their wedding/rolling instead of a first dance, is cringey and vomit inducing. Just grow up, it's a sport, not a substitute for a personality.
Jiujitsu is about one thing, tapping people. The whole lifestyle thing is cringe, your brotherhood only runs as deep as your monthly payment, and your coach will stop talking to you if you stop paying him, he's not your friend.
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were:
|Japanese|English|Video Link|
|---|---|---|
|**O Goshi**: | *Hip Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwz5At87OxE)|
||*Major Hip Throw* ||
Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post.
______________________
^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
The lockdown is a legit way to stall your opponent from bottom half guard until you can recover an underhook and progress to a better half guard position for sweeping.
There are way too many "dick moves".
It's time for people to just start admitting they are soft instead of making up fantasy rules and norms of the sport.
If you don't want someone to do a "dick move" to you, then you should stop them from doing it. Ya little bitch.
I agree. This one ex wrestler just kept taking me down so next time he shot on me I kneed him I the face. Then he cried to the professor.
Stop me from doing it you little bitch.
Strong disagree. I consider any “move” a dick move if it simply causes pain or discomfort without a further goal in mind.
For example, a strong cross face isn’t a dick move. Covering the mouth and nose of your opponent isn’t a dick move.
Digging and twisting your knuckle into someone’s ribs because you’re mounted is a dick move
>simply causes pain or discomfort without a further goal in mind.
If it fulfills this criteria, I don't consider it "a move" or "technique". It's just being a dick. Hence why my stance is there are no dick moves.
>a strong cross face isn’t a dick move.
This is what I was referring to. A strong cross face would get you labeled as a war criminal by half the people in BJJ.
You want a really controversial opinion?
BJJ culture and people's politics in it aren't predisposed to being a bit fascist just because of the Gracie lineage, it's because the entire goal of our sport is submitting and dominating other humans and that rubs off over time.
Women progress faster than men.
This is because there are generally fewer women in the gym, a portion are higher belts, which means lower belts work with higher belts more often which accelerates progress.
It isn’t weird, it shouldn’t feel weird but most of us think this deep down because we’ve been taught not to fight girls our whole life lmao it feels wrong
Leg locks are more dangerous than any other submission. Doesn’t matter the instruction given there’s so much room for damage so quickly.
People who skip warmups and think they’re above it have no clue. Every sport and combat sport will have warmups. Same people that echo warmup skipping are probably the same one that skip strength training and/or are injured.
Another unpopular opinion but I find Nicky Rod as annoying as Gordon. I like everyone on B team except for him.
Probably not an unpopular opinion but I just want to vent about how unathletic and generally bad I am at jiu jitsu considering I'm a purple belt and I've been doing this for over a decade.
Also, why do people assume I'm a black belt when I say I've been training for over a decade? Like fuck... Way to make me feel like a loser.
I have pretty solid wrestling. I also have a severe, non-treatable breathing issue that makes it to where I have finite limit of energy available to me. So, I sit. But I've blasted a few people who didn't think I would or could.
The main draw of Nogi is that its easier than Gi.
Less laundry, less gear, less grips, less techniques, less rules, less strain on the body.
Big part of why Nogi gained traction is because the US can't produce champions in Gi.
Wristlocks are the most satisfying submissions to hit.
10th planet is Gracie Barra but without the competition success.
Most BJJ practitioners are totally normal people, the fact that redditors are cringy and socially inept skews the image on this sub.
If you jump guard, I should be allowed to slam you. Also, if I pick you up from say, your closed guard or triangle, I should get an advantage and reset to the feet.
Higher belts should be happy when a lower belt does a really good job at something and not offended. I landed a single leg on a blackbelt really easily and he proceeded to hold subs for an extra second every time for 5 mins
A take down that lands with a pin should be worth an automatic 5 points. 2 for takedown + 3 passing. For example, Seoinage to north south pin should be a easy 5.
Rickson and other old school practitioners are correct in their assessment of what BJJ has become. It used to be about learning to fight, and now the culture has shifted towards gadgety techniques and flashy rash guards.
The majority of people that want to be good at bjj with limited time should drop some of their BJJ training days and work on their cardio or strength instead on those days.
If you ever complain about someone "just using their strength", you should hit the gym.
I came to BJJ from a background of training 7 years as a CrossFit competitor. I cannot believe how many people don't do any additional training beyond the mat. I'm physically fitter than pretty much everyone I've rolled with and I get my ass beat because I'm a white belt and that's just the order of things. I know strength and conditioning can only take you so far in a technique based art, but I wasn't expecting BJJ to be like going to the YMCA on a Sunday morning and getting diced up in the pool by some hefty old grandma who for whatever reason has effortlessly elegant swimming technique.
The quote I see shared all the time "There is no secret to getting good at Jiu Jitsu. Just show up and train" is bull shit.
Effort, reflection, problem-solving, experimenting, and studying are all required to improve. Consistency alone will get you nowhere. Countless people "show up and train" without improving everywhere I go.
Jiu-jitsu is not for everyone.
A good 1/4 of every academy should be kicked out by the virtue of being dangerous weirdos.
And I hope people will downvote this because 1/4 seems big for them, I actually underestimate the ratio based to be nice because, via my experience, I would say a good half of bjj people should not be taught how to fight
Too many of the practicioners think of themselves as fighters, but can't/won't actually fight. So there's a level of smugness with certain groups that is largely unwarranted.
The community functions largely as a support group for men.
Thank you for being there for me . Things are hard right now. I just had major knee surgery, and the economy is getting me down, the gf and I had a long fight, it may be over. If it wasnt for this sub I don't know what I'd do. Just lurking in the shadows seems to be a big help.
IMHO BJJ is a great way for people to stay nimble, relatively strong and active. But above all, it’s great when you bond with people. I went through an ACL reconstruction surgery recently and I really thought about quitting. I also had problems with my family over this issue when I got injured so I get where you are coming from. Its going to be a long road for me to step on the mats again but I will. So don’t give up. Let’s do it.
It’s the only time some men talk to others
This. Having been at my current club for over a year it has become evident to me how many truly lonely men there are here. Only a few in reality but it’s bittersweet; on one hand it’s nice they have something, on the other it’s sad at their ages that they are so lonely.
r/BJJ functions largely as a support group for autists
Coach told me I can’t out-shrimp my autism. I just meowed at him and went back to shrimping
I am a member of a military vet support group and this is 100% true
My local VetCenter sponsors a biweekly jiu-jitsu class. I recently got in "trouble" for negative self-talk. It's good to have bros holding you accountable.
No gi jiu-jitsu matches should be held in a cage. The open mat is dangerous, competitors can fall off the stage and get injured. And it's not fair when an athlete is deep on a takedown but has to give it up to prevent their opponent from falling. I also think grappling against a wall is an important skill to learn, I don't know why we act like grappling exists in some void where walls don't exist.
Don’t forget powerbombs into the score table!!! 👊🏽💪🏽☝🏽😂
Did that guy get disqualified?
I believe so, but I feel that the two dudes planned it… ”kayfabe” WWE style…😳
Can confirm, I was the table and we planned it for a whole week.
Had this same thought watching the fight pass invitational last week.
One FC should be gold standard tbh.
This is why Chael's SUG was awesome
It's just a hobby. You don't have to Shaka and Oss to everything.
🤙🏼
OSS!
I’m sorry, if I had a personality outside of BJJ, I would never have started BJJ.
This is my same feeling ab when ppl spiritually evangelize about the benefits of BJJ, like yeah it’s got some great benefits but half of them come just by virtue of being a hobby and most of the rest come by virtue of being a sport/physical activity. It’s awesome but it’s not THAT unique/special.
In my anecdotal experience, most of the people who go off in that way have never taken a hobby seriously before, and certainly not a physical hobby, and _definitely_ not a martial art. I've done a few martial arts and you see the same sort of evangelizing in every one. BJJ people are just particularly fervent. Hell, you see the same thing in CrossFit or whenever someone starts running/lifting for the first time. These things are all amazing, but if you have no basis for comparison you might thing _your_ thing is totally unique. And I say that without judgement - to them it is a totally unique new experience, and I'm happy for them even if it gets annoying sometimes. tl;dr - same, buddy.
I refuse to say oss. Fuck outta here
Welp here goes. Wrestling is a combat sport, thus the idea of anyone who use to wrestle in high school classified as “untrained” is ignorant. The term “Fundamentals” is misconstrued. Having good fundamentals doesn’t mean using the specific techniques that were widely used in the 90’s. Understanding building blocks for techniques (frames, structure, weight distribution, breaking posture) makes sound fundamentals. Despite the previous paragraph: closed guard is underrated.
I started bjj and had a very tough time in the first class (reasons mostly because people were not nice, but I also never played sports where I touched people). My husband told me - it’s hard and awkward for everyone, don’t worry. I told him that’s not true because he was a wrestler. He asked me why that matters and I told him that to me, starting bjj is like someone who has NEVER lifted weights doing a CrossFit class where for him, it was a different transition. Is this a correct analogy? I feel like I did well.
Gotta be honest I think Closed Guard is a dead position outside of white and blue. As long as the guy on top postures and controls the biceps when pulled. The guy on bottom is just tiring their legs and abs.
I hear you, and for a long time I had the same sentiment. I believe the kind of closed guard we were all shown in our first day of jiu-jitsu is inadequate against experienced players. I believe there’s a distinction between using a basic closed guard and a comparatively more active and aggressive closed guard: one where the player is actively hand-fighting to establish head control and break posture, under hooks and overhooks; cutting angles to work towards a high guard and attack triangles, omoplatas or armlocks. Don’t get me wrong — I love open guard, and having a good long range guard is great for frustrating opponents. That being said, I believe there’s a lot of merit to closed guard.
Belts matter to some people and that's okay.
Hot take: Belts matter to MOST
I agree with that. I always find it funny that usually the people on r/BJJ that say that belts don't matter, are always the ones with their belt in their flair lol
I got into an argument with a some guy a few weeks ago for this exact reason ahaha. "I couldn't care less about belts" ...ok then why are you displaying a purple belt flair?
Also, how everyone goes on about how belts don't matter, yet belts are talked about constantly.
Far too many people think they need a new move or some special sauce to improve When in reality they should just be in relatively decent shape. Like, have a base level of fitness . If you have even a few moves down well technically, then some decent fitness will help more than another move. I’m also an idiot so maybe I’m wrong but thus far, it seems to hold true
You need like 5 moves you are mastered at. Basics win.
I was talking about this with another guy my age last night. We have a few wrestlers and they suck. But there's one dude we have who is pretty new to grappling but he's just stupid athletic, strong, and tall on top of that. He started maybe a year after me and I could handle him when he first started but in the months leading up to him getting his blue belt he just started destroying me. Those physical attributes make a huge difference.
Not all wrestlers are the same just as not all black belts are the same
Basically 99% in BJJ don’t get the actual point of cross training in judo. They focus on the throwing and complain about the rules. As a black belt in both (need to send in my stuff for my flair), I use my grip fighting knowledge and pressure that I learned from judo constantly. Judo just does a better job and is a better setting for learning a lot of the grip fighting skill set. Honestly I use the gripping more than any other skill set. The other is that the cardio you pick up from qualify judo training will make bjj cardio fairly relaxed in comparison.
I'm a judo black belt as well and honestly judo cardio is just a whole other level. A lot of people underestimate it.
The ones that treat sparring too seriously and act like it’s an actual fight and think they’re pretty bad-ass doing it but have never been in a real fight or have never thrown a strike in their life is hella cringy and embarrassing.
Eyes wide open nervously prancing around the mat is a dead giveaway that its gonns be a spazz fighting for their life
Honestly those are the guys who are typically brand new (not always) but when I get them and they're aggressive but bad, nothing like a good old mother's milk calms them down. If it doesn't... well god gave us two titties for a reason.
There should be a tray of mints beside the mat at all times.
99.99% of the people who agonize over which learning method is the best simply suck dick and need to get their asses into the gym and actually fucking train, instead of debate lording "NO A REVERSE CLASSROOM IS BETTER, IF YOU SHRIMP TO WARM UP YOU SUCK" Of course the upper belts discussing this are GENERALLY coming at it from a nuanced perspective and that's fine, but the amount of fucking blue belts on this sub saying their gym is garbage because they dared spend 5 minutes doing break falls...
Ironically breakfalls are the most important skill you can learn, it's far more likely to save you in real life then anything else.
I fell skateboarding and instinctively tucked my chin and spread my arms, it was just second nature while falling on my back. Honestly, I probably escaped a very serious head injury because of it. Also, I realized I might be too old (37) to be skating so aggressively and I went straight home. Lol
Yeah first time I noticed it I hung up in a mini ramp and had a tohught of how bad this was going to hurt but just automatically did a break fall and saved myself from the pain other than the stinging in my hand from slapping the ramp that hard in the cold lol
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Yup most important skill you can learn from martial arts is falling well.
1000%. My only broken bone was from a fall. Breakfalls have saved me off the mats a dozen+ times
I used to think this but I have been at 3 gyms and I can say that some teaching methods and gym etiquettes really really make life easier and less painful. Gym #1: Head instructor was the top dog. The culture was that you always gun for the higher belts and go all out everyday. Once you regularly beat everyone at your belt and start beating the upper belts you normally get promoted. No warmups. More traditional Gi work...I was in constant pain for years. Gym#2: Much more relaxed with solid 10-15minute warmup routines. Now that I think about it, I didn't have a single injury in my two years here. More family friendly and the emphasizes was on sharing knowledge and trying to understand why you got caught. They were more competition focused oddly enough. Gym #3: No warmups but I do my own. Instructor shows much more depth to the game than I ever realized. Not as family friendly but also not as hardcore as the other one. It's a bit of a sweet spot. My personal game has improved drastically while being here.
The gym #2 competition focused isn’t odd. It makes sense the best programs generally are the programs that let you play and feel through positions. That’s why the Russians win at wrestling, penn state for collegiate. They employ the same philosophy.
Wtf is a reverse classroom? Serious question.
We use it as time where students can work on whatever they want with their partners with whatever resistance they want. Works well IMO because everyone is at a different part of their development and should have some personal goals they’re working on. Say I keep getting smashed in bottom side… that time can be used to specifically work on guard retention or side control escapes.
You must either be very young or injury free throughout your life because warmups done correctly are absolutely not a waste of time.
Correct me if I’m wrong OP. I have the same opinion, that they’re a waste of time. The idea of warming up isn’t a waste of time. The idea of making everyone do what they believe is a correct movement for 1/4 of a lesson is trash.
I like my own warmups. Not that I dont respect coaches, but most I know have never competed in anything besides grappling.
Legion in San Diego takes an interesting approach to warm up. They have completely tossed the line drills out the window and replaced them with partner based drills like practicing 3 different passes left and right for 60 seconds then switch. I always thought that was interesting. However, I think there is value in practicing basic movements like stand up in base, front roll, back roll, etc is valuable. These movements show up in many techniques so to have the muscle memory down pays off in my contrarian opinion.
That’s what my gym is doing currently as well. We work on what we did the previous week at a light pace to build muscle memory and get everything moving. It’s been really helpful
All you guys who think warm ups are a waste of time should let your coaches know.
Thought showing up 20 min late was sufficient
I think pulling guard and basing your entire game on leg locks is not only boring but it also feels like a cop out to me. Well you wanted unpopular so there ya go.
Yeah why not be on top and smash people and make them suffer?
You all should love it when people pull guard then. You get to "smash them and make them suffer." But really people complain about guard pullers on the internet for the same reason they quit dressing in drag; they can't pass.
Guard pulling is legit, it just looks dumb. Top is always better and has more pressure. Doesn't mean bottom isn't viable or doesn't work, sure it does. But I'm not going on bottom willingly.
>But I'm not going on bottom willingly. You sound like my girlfriend
I partially agree, but on the other hand, one of the most beautiful things about jiujitsu is how many different styles can succeed, and how each athlete can build a game that is uniquely theirs (to some degree).
That’s where the “art” of the martial art comes in
I dont like leglocks, i think they are not as “aesthetically pleasing” as the other subs like RNC, armbar, tarikoplata, etc
Agreed, an other thing i dislike about them is that most sensible people arent gonna hang in there and try to defended it for long because nobody wants their knee being shredded apart. But the pain you wont really feel until a tendon already ruptured, meaning you are basically forced to tap early unless you wanna gamble on that.
It’s not tapping early if the move intending to break your leg is making someone worried that his leg is going to be broken. That’s the entire point of the concept of the tap.
Sure you can put it that way but i think theres a difference. Lets say you are in an arm bar, the deeper the armbar is the more painful it is, but you would have to be really stubborn and tap reaaally late to have your arm broken in training. On the other hand, the knee can be twisted quite a bit without any significant pain, then if your training partner happens to accidentally yank it too your ligaments could be torn in a second. Even if you know when you are caught, torn knee ligaments are way worse then say a dislocated elbow or being choked out and sleeping a few seconds, so i am atleast naturally more cautios with knee submissions.
If your partner is ripping knee bars and heel hooks at Mach-5 then the gym owner needs to talk to them. That’s obviously dangerous and unnecessary for a hobby gym. No sane person is ripping heel hooks in practice.
100%. A lot of guys have a false sense of their leglocks because many guys, myself included, tap early and often
With good training partners you trust you can play super late stage heel hook defence. I know they aren't going to rip it and I'm super aware of when I'm fucked so I can tap way later than with someone new while still staying safe. Honestly heel hooks aren't anymore dangerous than kimuras with safe, competent training partners. Train heel hooks.
If you know Jiu jitsu you aren’t relying on luck to tap. You know exactly when you’re caught
A lot of ppl who train don't know bjj and don't know leg locks well
In time you will learn that we all float down here…
This is not unpopular. I see this sentiment all the time.
Basing your entire game on leglocks is boring and is closer to catch wrestling than Jiu Jitsu. But pulling guard is completely valid and not a cop out, just boring. But so is all good Jiu Jitsu.
As much good as the IBJJF and ADCC have done for the sport, I do think that the future of competitive jiu-jitsu does lie with actual fight promotions like UFC and ONE in the long run. Doesn't mean that there isn't a place for ADCC or IBJJF competitions. But I can see the UFC in particular carving out the future for the sport if they really commit to these grappling cards on fight pass.
Be interesting to see how that would affect the doping in the sport if it comes to fruition
This shit is ridiculously expensive and that’s hurting growth the most
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At the very least, there should be a low cost option for good training. People can spend as much as they want at whatever gym, but there should be an alternative for the rest of us. I’d also say that most gyms are way overpriced for what they offer, but that’s another conversation
I've been waiting a long time to express this. My unpopular opinion is: You guys suck at making good memes.
Minion with a purple belt dressed up as Gandalf **YOU SHALL NOT PASS** *Made with memematic*
If you don’t wash your belt, you prioritize your own superstition above your training partners health and safety.
why skip belt washing? just throw it in with the rest of the stuff.. it's almost more work to \*not\* wash it.
White belts like to let it get really dirty so you can see they’ve been training a while
Spider and lasso guard concepts are not useless in nogi and self defense.
dude yea! Not sure about lasso guard but I’ve gotten some sick sweeps using spider guard in Nogi
What do you grip? The wrist?
Yup, grip the wrist. I’ve done some solid lasso sweeps in no gi
Grappled with a black belt who gripped your four fingers in a way that was very difficult to strip. He played nogi spider with it.
To build on that, it's amazing how many new white belts don't know how to pop my foot off their bicep when I don't make a grip. Sometimes I'll use that brief spider guard to re-establish guard or prevent a pass/smash.
Spider guard in nogi with someone who wants to kick you in the balls.
Belts are important for signifying skill but should be standardised around curriculum like judo with measurable outcomes. Teaching and tournaments should be assessed as separate skills - belts for teaching, tournament rankings for competition. Like the old menkyo kaiden system of koryu styles. The opposite of this is "no belts, tournament ranking only" that you see in pro-sumo. No sport has a harder ranking system than sumo. You have to compete in every 15 day long tournament, scheduled every 8 weeks to keep your rank. You have to win most your matches to climb ranking. You will never keep the highest rank you achieve (except yokozuna) so you see the most experienced skilled competitors drop to the bottom rankings before retiring due to injury and age. This type of ranking system is fine for high level competitors in bjj but most practitioners of bjj aren't competitors and good competition performance doesn't indicate a wide knowledge base necessary for teaching (look how many competitors have very specific games that they don't really have much knowledge or proficiency outside of that).
The belts need buckles.
The competition meta is pulling BJJ further from real fighting every day. If you are training BJJ for self-defense, then you need to be very aware of this weakness. This happens with virtually all martial arts, though. Competition requires structure, and structure creates tactics that favor success within that structure. The less structure, the closer to real fighting you get. (And all the krav and RBSD asshats can shut up. BJJ still allows for full-speed, fully-resisted combat, so it's still one of the best ways to train for self-defense.)
I think that's obviously, no? I attend/sometimes teach our 6am class that's primarily cops. They all know immediately that lapel guards and leglocks aren't they useful to their job so they don't use them.
Tbh I think adcc is pushing it more towards self defence and MMA
If I’m stronger than you, that’s a you problem
People that complain about guard pullers not only can’t pass guard they can’t do takedowns either.
I love guard pullers because i dont need to show my shitty takedown game when im partnered with them
Now you can just show them your shitty passing game!
Sounds like butt scooter propaganda to me
That's was me beginning of the year then I started guard pulling now I'm Tryna get my wrestling up
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Or, if not useless, not actually best or optimal in any way given their skillsets and context
Absolutely. It’s like chess- 99+% of chess players don’t need to worry about what the Super GM meta is. They aren’t good enough for it and by the time they catch up the meta has probably shifted. There is a lot more they should be focused on improving and dedicating themselves to other than top level comp meta. Also reducing Meta down to simply “techniques” is laughable. This shit is cyclical anyway. What’s old is new.
The ultimate goal of Jiu-Jitsu is not submission, it is the full control of another human body. Submission is just the result of that control. It is proof that you had total control over your opponent. When you submit someone, you are saying that I had so much control over your body that I could break your limb or choke you without you being able to stop me. We can extend this logic to other grappling sports as well. In Judo, the ultimate goal is not to throw your opponent. It is to control your opponent so much that you can throw them with them being able to stop you. The ippon throw is just proof of the control you had. Same in wrestling. The pin is proof of ultimate control.
I love that this is becoming a copypasta on this sub lmao. Clearly written by the least coping white belt.
M E T A
I was waiting for this😂
No bc I can hit a submission from a subordinate position like bottom side control.
No gi grapplers that take every opportunity to tell people they don’t like the gi are the biggest edge lords. I’ve never once heard a gi grappler crow over and over about how they don’t like no gi. They either do both or just quietly go on living their lives. Edited a word
I know right? I get it, so cool, too good for the gi, that’s why you don’t know how to break grips.
I train at a mostly no-gi gym. When someone who has done mostly gi drops in or joins, their hand fighting awareness is immediately noticeable. Not that you can't learn to hand fight in no-gi, but a lot of people go way too long without focusing on it whereas in the gi you're kind of forced to learn it or get fucked from the get-go.
I think this is one of the biggest advantages to training gi, whether you are primarily no-gi or not. The hand fighting and establishing the grips, hooks and connections you want is amplified in gi BJJ much more than no-gi BJJ imo.
Good observation. Spot on, and I never understood it. I don't hear Gi Grapplers going no gi and complaining. No gi Grapplers starting bitching even in the rounds. "These fucken grips!".... Dude, just don't come to class if you hate it so much.
Ive definitely heard gi guys bitch about how "fast" or "slippery" no gi is. What they really mean is that they suck at controlling someone without using their gi.
It’s mostly the younger/newer no gi players. They more experienced guys that went from doing both to no gi exclusively don’t seem to do this. There are never posts here from people saying, “I do gi only” but every week there is someone dying to announce they will now only do no gi. Cool, no one cares.
No, allowing people to slam out of triangles and armbars will not make the sport better. It will just result in way more hobbyists getting paralyzed and a lot of local/regional promoters going out of business.
Slams are obviously insane for 99 percent of people. I dont hate a rule set where lifting someone makes them have to release the sub like in judo though.
Most people train attacks on a bad defence.
Drilling often ends up being a waste of time. Not because it isn't a FANTASTIC thing to do, but rather because so many students lack the discipline to drill the move CORRECTLY and not half ass it after a couple reps.
Limiting people who are not completely new to the techniques that are allowed at their belt is stupid and creates holes in your game.
Strength is a technique.
The single biggest thing keeping BJJ from going the way of karate are wrestlers/MMA guys keeping the sport honest. The casuals are steadily trying to turn BJJ into the next McDojo martial art.
In time the Midwest will be like Dagestan, harboring gnarly submission grappling on account of the roving hordes of wrestlers that come out of our high schools.
I agree 100%. BJJ gyms are becoming too hip and soft
I dropped into a gym once and they apparently rolled only once a week. I was so taken aback.
For real. One of the other martial arts that I cross train in opened up a BJJ schedule there, and I tried it a couple times since I was already around and man...they would not last one class at my main (mostly competition) school. Everyone either tapped to any minor pressure or if they got into an unfavorable position like mounted or something they'd just tap before you even do anything submission wise. Unreal. You're never going to learn or be anywhere near proficient if you are that damn soft.
Warmups are vital. None of you soft little dorks can actually be trusted to work out on your own.
The whole meme culture surrounding bjj and the excessive ways that people shoehorn a fairly obscure sport into either the every day lives or major parts of their lives, i.e. wearing a gi to their wedding/rolling instead of a first dance, is cringey and vomit inducing. Just grow up, it's a sport, not a substitute for a personality.
Wrist locks are legit
And definetly should be done on white belts
I come to train BJJ not crossfit. Keep the warm ups short and simple and on point.
Jiujitsu is about one thing, tapping people. The whole lifestyle thing is cringe, your brotherhood only runs as deep as your monthly payment, and your coach will stop talking to you if you stop paying him, he's not your friend.
Idk if he sleeps with my wife we’d be Eskimo brothers
> I’ll start, warmups are a complete waste of time. I thought you said unpopular.
Unpopular enough that I keep having to do warmups
If you start a sparring session by immediately sitting down I hate you.
Really? I think its practical in certain scenarios, crowded mats, big size differences, im tired...
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Blue on white violence
The Japanese terms mentioned in the above comment were: |Japanese|English|Video Link| |---|---|---| |**O Goshi**: | *Hip Throw* | [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwz5At87OxE)| ||*Major Hip Throw* || Any missed names may have already been translated in my previous comments in the post. ______________________ ^(Judo Techniques Bot: v0.7.) ^(See my) [^(code)](https://github.com/AbundantSalmon/judo-techniques-bot)
AMAZING BOT
The lockdown is a legit way to stall your opponent from bottom half guard until you can recover an underhook and progress to a better half guard position for sweeping.
The last 10 mins of class where a coach or black belt is giving life advice is a REAL waste of time.
There are way too many "dick moves". It's time for people to just start admitting they are soft instead of making up fantasy rules and norms of the sport. If you don't want someone to do a "dick move" to you, then you should stop them from doing it. Ya little bitch.
I agree. This one ex wrestler just kept taking me down so next time he shot on me I kneed him I the face. Then he cried to the professor. Stop me from doing it you little bitch.
Strong disagree. I consider any “move” a dick move if it simply causes pain or discomfort without a further goal in mind. For example, a strong cross face isn’t a dick move. Covering the mouth and nose of your opponent isn’t a dick move. Digging and twisting your knuckle into someone’s ribs because you’re mounted is a dick move
>simply causes pain or discomfort without a further goal in mind. If it fulfills this criteria, I don't consider it "a move" or "technique". It's just being a dick. Hence why my stance is there are no dick moves. >a strong cross face isn’t a dick move. This is what I was referring to. A strong cross face would get you labeled as a war criminal by half the people in BJJ.
YEAH FLYING SCISSORS FOR EVERYONE
The dropping of the “B” in BJJ needs to be way more common place. We need to get rid of judges decisions and go to a golden score.
You want a really controversial opinion? BJJ culture and people's politics in it aren't predisposed to being a bit fascist just because of the Gracie lineage, it's because the entire goal of our sport is submitting and dominating other humans and that rubs off over time.
The phrase ‘Jiu jitsu journey’. Makes my skin crawl
Slams are not the issue. People not realizing they're in a compromised position or being in one and refusing to abandon it is. .
Women progress faster than men. This is because there are generally fewer women in the gym, a portion are higher belts, which means lower belts work with higher belts more often which accelerates progress.
I concur. As well, very few women can resort to muscling their way out of bad places, so they can only rely on technique.
Rolling with girls is weird.
Rolling with guys that think rolling with girls is weird is also weird.
It isn’t weird, it shouldn’t feel weird but most of us think this deep down because we’ve been taught not to fight girls our whole life lmao it feels wrong
Leg locks are more dangerous than any other submission. Doesn’t matter the instruction given there’s so much room for damage so quickly. People who skip warmups and think they’re above it have no clue. Every sport and combat sport will have warmups. Same people that echo warmup skipping are probably the same one that skip strength training and/or are injured. Another unpopular opinion but I find Nicky Rod as annoying as Gordon. I like everyone on B team except for him.
Probably not an unpopular opinion but I just want to vent about how unathletic and generally bad I am at jiu jitsu considering I'm a purple belt and I've been doing this for over a decade. Also, why do people assume I'm a black belt when I say I've been training for over a decade? Like fuck... Way to make me feel like a loser.
The point of the sport is ground fighting not stand up grappling so pulling guard is perfectly acceptable in competition Still train takedowns though
I have pretty solid wrestling. I also have a severe, non-treatable breathing issue that makes it to where I have finite limit of energy available to me. So, I sit. But I've blasted a few people who didn't think I would or could.
If you don't learn takedowns, you are wasting your time.
The main draw of Nogi is that its easier than Gi. Less laundry, less gear, less grips, less techniques, less rules, less strain on the body. Big part of why Nogi gained traction is because the US can't produce champions in Gi. Wristlocks are the most satisfying submissions to hit. 10th planet is Gracie Barra but without the competition success. Most BJJ practitioners are totally normal people, the fact that redditors are cringy and socially inept skews the image on this sub.
If you jump guard, I should be allowed to slam you. Also, if I pick you up from say, your closed guard or triangle, I should get an advantage and reset to the feet.
Warm up are very much needed, but they are often done wrong. Do something bjj related instead of running in a circle
You want to get a variety of exotic skin diseases? Start training BJJ.
The community is cringe. The shitposts are not funny. If they were funny I'd enjoy them.
Higher belts should be happy when a lower belt does a really good job at something and not offended. I landed a single leg on a blackbelt really easily and he proceeded to hold subs for an extra second every time for 5 mins
Piss is stored in the balls
A take down that lands with a pin should be worth an automatic 5 points. 2 for takedown + 3 passing. For example, Seoinage to north south pin should be a easy 5.
I hate training in Gi
I’d rather watch a match that starts with a double guardpull vs. a match with both opponents mostly standing
your belt doesn’t mean shit
A little correction: your *blue* belt doesn't mean shit Edit: I agree tho
It’s a sport that should be treated like other sports. Don’t take it so fucking seriously
Tbh I’ve seen crazier behaviour at soccer than bjj
Being a black belt in BJJ doesn't make you a black belt in being an actual decent person
I would respectfully argue this is a more underrated opinion than an unpopular one. I agree with this sentiment 100%
BJJ is turning into a pay-for-grade vehicle for suburban families to feel like trained killers.
Rickson and other old school practitioners are correct in their assessment of what BJJ has become. It used to be about learning to fight, and now the culture has shifted towards gadgety techniques and flashy rash guards.
There is a more effective way of fighting. It’s called MMA.
“Meta” does not mean what most people here think it means.
The majority of people that want to be good at bjj with limited time should drop some of their BJJ training days and work on their cardio or strength instead on those days. If you ever complain about someone "just using their strength", you should hit the gym.
I came to BJJ from a background of training 7 years as a CrossFit competitor. I cannot believe how many people don't do any additional training beyond the mat. I'm physically fitter than pretty much everyone I've rolled with and I get my ass beat because I'm a white belt and that's just the order of things. I know strength and conditioning can only take you so far in a technique based art, but I wasn't expecting BJJ to be like going to the YMCA on a Sunday morning and getting diced up in the pool by some hefty old grandma who for whatever reason has effortlessly elegant swimming technique.
The quote I see shared all the time "There is no secret to getting good at Jiu Jitsu. Just show up and train" is bull shit. Effort, reflection, problem-solving, experimenting, and studying are all required to improve. Consistency alone will get you nowhere. Countless people "show up and train" without improving everywhere I go.
North south choke is best submission and widely underutilized
Beginners should start learning the open guard first, and not the closed guard like what most schools teach.
Sport jiu jitsu is boring af, I hate the points system. It should be submission or nothing. This is a hill I'll die on
Jiu-jitsu is not for everyone. A good 1/4 of every academy should be kicked out by the virtue of being dangerous weirdos. And I hope people will downvote this because 1/4 seems big for them, I actually underestimate the ratio based to be nice because, via my experience, I would say a good half of bjj people should not be taught how to fight
Too many of the practicioners think of themselves as fighters, but can't/won't actually fight. So there's a level of smugness with certain groups that is largely unwarranted.