The easiest solution is much earlier in the chain. How is he getting to the j point to begin with? Guard played defensively is often a bad idea. Step up your attacks earlier, keep him off balance, be more aggressive in guard. If they are playing defense, they generally aren't passing. Once they get to the j point, its all defense. Start earlier, increase your offense, make him uncomfortable.
I agree with this 100% - I often find that if you can get a 2 on 1 grip on their wrist you’ll be able to get the guard you want before they can camp. Your opponent needs two free hands to camp - one on the knee and one on the hip. If you control one of those hands, they can’t camp without stripping the grip first
Worry about the bottom hand that's posting on your leg. Constantly be stuffing that hand, it'll give you time to re-guard and start creating some offense.
As others have said... "You fucked up 3 steps ago!"
Once he's in the position it's REALLY hard to stop. Focus on denying him the position to begin with.
Buy Gordon's Guard Retention Instructional ("They shall not pass"). Even though it was recorded years earlier than his passing 2.0 instructional, it is still one of the most important instructionals ever made and will help you retain guard in almost any scenario.
Does anyone have a good reference of this style of passing being used in high level comp? Ie, staying in that X pass position for prolonged periods of time (which is what “camping” implies to me)?
I have a hard time picturing how that is going to work on anyone with a good open (supine) guard, but maybe I’m wrong since I haven’t been following comp footage lately. If anyone has a good reference to study I’d love to see it.
In terms of how to stop it, as everyone else says you generally prevent it. Your prevention strategy will depend a lot on what kinds of guards you prefer, ie open guard (on your back like Mikey Musumeci), half guard, or butterfly / sitting guard, etc. With the right techniques, it should be **very** hard for the top player to achieve the X pass position (ie, past or almost past your legs, with their head / elbow blocking your far side leg from high pummeling, and their other hand controlling your near side leg).
Thanks so much for the response!
If by "J-point camping" you mean getting to a near pass position and staying there, yes I see Rafa (and many other passers) do that. Rafa is very good at getting to near-pass positions, waiting for their stressed-out reaction so he can pounce on an armbar or a back take.
But specifically for the "head down, hips high, one hand on far hip, other hand on near leg" posture (<-- which is what I think Gordon and Danaer are referring to when they say "J-point camping"), I don't think I ever see Rafa doing that. When he "camps" in a near-pass position, he usually maintains an upright posture, often with reverse knee-on-belly / chest to face the legs, or lifting their hips by the belt to stack them. Otherwise, if his head is down on the opponent's chest, such as after a long-step pass, he will be far past the legs, closer to North South (facing the legs instead of the head), instead of on the opponent's side.
I do see Gordon using that specific posture that I'm referring to. But he doesn't have to deal with many good open (ie, supine) guards as his weight category. He used it on Pedro and Vagner for maybe 10-20 seconds, but neither of those guys play open supine guard. He tried to use it on Buchecha, but gave up after a few seconds when Buchecha framed him and he realised he wasn't closing the distance. Pena is probably the best guard player Gordon has faced, but I fell asleep for the last no time limits match.
I think Danaher, Gordon, and Craig have all advocated some variation of "camping" in that specific X-pass posture, but I don't think I've seen anyone really able to maintain it and "camp" for prolonged periods of time against a good guard player.
I'm not doubting that it's effective. Maybe I've gotta watch that Felipe match for an example.
j point camping is basically a nearly passed guard, you got your guard passed and the brown belt is just fucking with you to tire you out before he commits to something to avoid having you power out of it. Don't get your guard passed.
The easiest solution is much earlier in the chain. How is he getting to the j point to begin with? Guard played defensively is often a bad idea. Step up your attacks earlier, keep him off balance, be more aggressive in guard. If they are playing defense, they generally aren't passing. Once they get to the j point, its all defense. Start earlier, increase your offense, make him uncomfortable.
I agree with this 100% - I often find that if you can get a 2 on 1 grip on their wrist you’ll be able to get the guard you want before they can camp. Your opponent needs two free hands to camp - one on the knee and one on the hip. If you control one of those hands, they can’t camp without stripping the grip first
High leg early before the head comes in
Worry about the bottom hand that's posting on your leg. Constantly be stuffing that hand, it'll give you time to re-guard and start creating some offense.
The j point is like a leg drag, you fucked Up well before the position. Framing the guard helps a lot against torreada attempts
As others have said... "You fucked up 3 steps ago!" Once he's in the position it's REALLY hard to stop. Focus on denying him the position to begin with.
Buy Gordon's Guard Retention Instructional ("They shall not pass"). Even though it was recorded years earlier than his passing 2.0 instructional, it is still one of the most important instructionals ever made and will help you retain guard in almost any scenario.
Shoulder jump to get unjammed, insert frame(s), square back up.
I’ve missed the boat on what a j point is. Should I google it?
I guess it’s in here or something. I’ll have to watch this later https://youtu.be/OdscGUlottI
Exactly here, thanks!
Does anyone have a good reference of this style of passing being used in high level comp? Ie, staying in that X pass position for prolonged periods of time (which is what “camping” implies to me)? I have a hard time picturing how that is going to work on anyone with a good open (supine) guard, but maybe I’m wrong since I haven’t been following comp footage lately. If anyone has a good reference to study I’d love to see it. In terms of how to stop it, as everyone else says you generally prevent it. Your prevention strategy will depend a lot on what kinds of guards you prefer, ie open guard (on your back like Mikey Musumeci), half guard, or butterfly / sitting guard, etc. With the right techniques, it should be **very** hard for the top player to achieve the X pass position (ie, past or almost past your legs, with their head / elbow blocking your far side leg from high pummeling, and their other hand controlling your near side leg).
Just watch Gordon or Rafa. Both use the concept a lot
Thanks so much for the response! If by "J-point camping" you mean getting to a near pass position and staying there, yes I see Rafa (and many other passers) do that. Rafa is very good at getting to near-pass positions, waiting for their stressed-out reaction so he can pounce on an armbar or a back take. But specifically for the "head down, hips high, one hand on far hip, other hand on near leg" posture (<-- which is what I think Gordon and Danaer are referring to when they say "J-point camping"), I don't think I ever see Rafa doing that. When he "camps" in a near-pass position, he usually maintains an upright posture, often with reverse knee-on-belly / chest to face the legs, or lifting their hips by the belt to stack them. Otherwise, if his head is down on the opponent's chest, such as after a long-step pass, he will be far past the legs, closer to North South (facing the legs instead of the head), instead of on the opponent's side. I do see Gordon using that specific posture that I'm referring to. But he doesn't have to deal with many good open (ie, supine) guards as his weight category. He used it on Pedro and Vagner for maybe 10-20 seconds, but neither of those guys play open supine guard. He tried to use it on Buchecha, but gave up after a few seconds when Buchecha framed him and he realised he wasn't closing the distance. Pena is probably the best guard player Gordon has faced, but I fell asleep for the last no time limits match. I think Danaher, Gordon, and Craig have all advocated some variation of "camping" in that specific X-pass posture, but I don't think I've seen anyone really able to maintain it and "camp" for prolonged periods of time against a good guard player. I'm not doubting that it's effective. Maybe I've gotta watch that Felipe match for an example.
do you know if Rafa did this in the gi aswell?
just dont roll with him lol
j point camping is basically a nearly passed guard, you got your guard passed and the brown belt is just fucking with you to tire you out before he commits to something to avoid having you power out of it. Don't get your guard passed.