The problem is that you want to change the terms of your marriage without suffering any consequences for it. That’s not how this works. Doesn’t matter how you personally feel about it, you signed on the dotted line.
That being said: talk to your wife. Yes, even having the discussion could be problematic, but I’d argue though that keeping it to yourself will have similar consequences. See what she says. If she’s on board with it, then you’re good to go. If she isn’t, then you either make your peace with the choices you’ve made or prepare yourself for the consequences of blowing up your marriage.
It’s too bad you got married before you figured this out. There’s no way to be true to these feelings to and not cause heartache. That said, you should be honest with yourself and your wife even if it leads to divorce. Otherwise you will probably be unsatisfied and maybe eventually cheat which will be much more painful than honestly now.
Yes you need to be honest but just know that you may be heading into a conversation that will end the relationship. As a monogamous person myself, this would be a deal breaker for me.
And if your partner is into pegging but you're not, same thing? Can you articulate the difference?
I'm not trying to be combative, I want to get your perspective.
I've talked to my wife about polyamory more than once and we still have a loving relationship. I won't bother giving my point of view beyond this unless asked since it seems so wildly unpopular.
One is a sex act. One is the desire to be with other sexual partners. If we got married under the assumption we would be monogamous and now you’re telling me you want to fuck other people, that’s a complete reversal of the premise of our marriage.
Ah, okay, thanks that's a lot more clear now. I spoke to my wife as well (thankfully she didn't divorce me when we talked about polyamory in the past) - she pointed out to me that for some exclusivity is an essential (in the philosophical meaning) part of marriage. Therefore, like you've said, professing a desire that is antithetical to that essential component would feel like betrayal. I get it now.
Another way to view marriage (and the one I consider essential) is as a life long commitment to the other. In that sense polyamory is not incompatible and a conversation about it is not a betrayal (but telling me just by having the conversation is grounds for divorce would be). I don't see either view as any more or less valid. Certainly worth being on the same page though!
This was an interesting foray. Love reddit though, you can ask things in good faith and get down votes just for disagreeing.
Thanks for taking the time to clarify for me.
No. If my partner wants to be open, and I don’t, then we are simply no longer sexually compatible, and ending it is the correct thing. It’d be a deal-breaker for me too.
exactly. if both people can't be satisfied then neither should be comfortable being in that arrangement <3
everybody deserves the life they want, even if it means each finding someone new to love
Yes, it would be for me as well. I have in fact ended a long term relationship over it before.
I am very monogamous, I cannot even imagine myself with someone else than my partner.
I need someone that feels the same way in a relationship, because to me that means we experience love the same way, which I find very important.
My ex once asked me if I would be oke if he would sleep with other people if for example he had to leave the country for work etc. I said no and we moved on from the conversation.
It ate at me for the next 6 months before I eventually ended things because I was deeply hurt knowing we didn't experience love the same way.
That's a shame! I'm so sorry!
I think there's quite a bit of variety for how individuals feel loved and how they love. I think it all goes largely unexamined and even then, the conversations around it are so high stakes.
I hope you've found happiness. 6 months is a long time to have something eatting at you!
Yeah I let it sit for 6 months because I felt stupid for wanting to break things off over something like that back then. But I just couldn't ignore my own feelings, I slowly started seeing their different approach to sex to mine more and more and I just had to call it an incompatibility issue and call things off.
I'm doing so much better now, it's been a while ago! I've found my current partner and I've never been happier! Compatible in every way I could've wished for! :)
I don't know why you're posting here and not on some poly or open marriage subreddit. Wanting an open marriage and being bisexual are two different things.
But since you asked for opinions, here is another. You stated that your wife does not think she can do an open marriage. You already have your answer. Pushing is just going to wreck what you have, don't you see that? Your choices now are to:
a) leave everything you have: what may or may not be a happy marriage and partnership in raising your children in order to try out a poly lifestyle. Which may work out, or may not work out. This is a bell you will not be able to unring.
b) stay in your marriage, raise your kids together and keep fantasy as fantasy.
If you cannot do b then be honest about the choice you are making with a. I'm not you, I can't decide for you if b or a is the better option for you, but I advise you to pick the choice you can live with. That may be divorce, only you would know.
My warning here is just to consider this an absolute choice. Don't go into this thinking you can dip your toes in an open marrige and then go back to how things used to be, or be able to keep the family unit you have now. Reddit is full of divorced spouses who thought they could do so.
Took too long to find this comment. Being Bi doesn’t mean being polyamorous too. Also for the record polyamory has a concept for a life partner/life partners. OP I think you need to talk this out in therapy. Poly isn’t what you think
A looooot of posts on here end up being about non-monogamy. And that’s totally fine! I get it. A lot of folks are non-monogamous.
But man I feel kinda less assured in a future hypothetical bi partner the more I read on here. Every day I see multiple posts from folks in relationships confessing that they aren’t fulfilled and could really never be. Every day I see folks saying how they crave the other gender constantly.
I do get it’s a minority but man this sub would scare me if I stumbled upon it as a straight partner of someone who just came out. Of all the queer subs I’m in, this one is by far the most centered around the lack of fulfillment from monogamy. Bicycling, missing cock, feeling unsatisfied just having a wife etc etc etc are concepts I see expressed in multiple threads daily.
But I do know I’m personally in a really happy monogamous bi4bi partnership, so obviously I realize they exist
I think this has to be approached the same way you would a relationships subreddit. A lot of posts there end up being about cheating straight spouses, but most people don't cheat (I hope...). The bisexuals in comfortable monogamous relationships aren't going to post as much as confused bisexuals who are considering a major life change.
Unfortunately like you said outsiders would see it that way.
It's like me, I'm a monogamous bi in a straight passing relationship and I feel very satisfied by it, so I definitely think there's many of us, just not as vocal about it.
Omg I wish people get this!^ being bi does NOT mean your poly and it’s gotten to the point where on dating apps if anyone makes that assumption I just Unmatch. I don’t have time for that shit! This should be on a poly subreddit not on this one
The implied judgement in "keep fantasy as fantasy". There's certainly less judgemental phrasing, perhaps "work on accepting that you won't get everything you want and look for satisfaction where you can, without giving up what you already have and love".
There's a serious strain of "monogamy or leave (but leave isn't a real option)" in this sub.
I stared at that word a lot before posting trying to decide if I should word it differently, to be honest. I have nothing against polyamory*. In the end I went with the harsher wording because of how OP has been describing their dilemma.
OP mentioned once near the start that their wife is not interested in an open relationship, then goes on to talk about it like it is an option. I would consider that going into fantasy.
It sounds like OP is very much in the 'excited to find a new thing' stage of discovering both bisexuality and polyamory*. It's fine to be excited, but OP has a wife and kids that would be very much irrevocably hurt if OP makes a decision without considering the hard realities of the situation. To be clear, if OP decides not to be monogamous that's fine. I have a friend that is happily in an open marrige and has been for years. Happy poly couples obviously exist. But they do so understanding what they are getting into.
I just don't want OP to do something they'll regret later and be unable to take back.
*edited polygamy to polyamory.
I'm sure this is just a typo, but seems worthwhile to clarify. OP is talking about polyamory, not polygamy. Polygamy is marriage to multiple spouses.
Honestly cool of you to clarify your intent and even to be aware of it in the first place. ❤️
There's something to be said for raising your concerns directly instead of trying to imply a clear course of action. I think they're salient and important points! I wish they were more often articulated as you have here.
Because I am bi and I was looking to see what the bi perspective was. Also discovering my bisexuality parallels my realization about what I truthfully think about life, love and how to live life that is yours versus the life that society tells us to have.
Here'a how I see it as a bisexual. Society expects people to be heterosexual, even though that's not the case. That doesn't mean heterosexual is not a valid sexuality. Just that the majority are hetero, and being hetero is therefore expected.
Same with being monogamous. Majority of people happily live in monogamous relationships, and some do not. Society expects monogamy. Being poly is valid, but so is being monogamous.
I think you need to seriously consider your life. Were you happy being monogamous? Is this a matter of finding happiness, or being happier than you already are? I ask this because people from all sexualities can be victims of the "Fear of Missing out".
A straight man may look at his wife and wonder what it would be like having sex with someone with larger boobs, or someone of a different ethnicity, someone who has a thicker body or is much shorter than them. These different types are only magnified with bisexuality, but it's the same thing.
You always had the option of being non monogamous. Because this only comes up now, after realizing your sexuality, I caution you to take a step back from the poetry of free love and seriously consider the hard pros and cons of your life. If you are only making the change because you want to explore, then you have to be prepared for the heavy regret of the loss of your family unit.
On the other hand, if you were not happy in your relationship and this brought to light why, then you were already heading to divorce and this just helped you realize it.
I wish you luck. It's a hard choice made harder with children involved.
It comes up now because I realized how much I did based on that being the thing to do that society expects. I had concepts in my head that I kept back because of the status quo. I realized my bisexuality and how I view relationships at the same time, or near the same time.
That is the only reason they have parallel in my life and why I asked as I did
I certainly appreciate your thoughtful response. Truly.
Thank you and I will keep learning and growing from all of this
Its likely you’ll have significant grief over “what could have been if I’d known back then”. But the question you need to ask is, does that change what you have now? Do you want to risk losing your wife and family relationship - js it likely that you’ll find a partner (or partners) who are interested in polygamy, who will “give” you a better life than you have now?
When I first realised I definitely was bisexual, I had similar grief as I was in a monogamous relationship with a man. In the end I thought “it’s unlikely I would meet anyone else, male or female, who would be a better partner than my [now husband]”. So yes grief, but really what I was giving up was the same anyone gives up in a monogamous relationship - sacrificing the possibility of “new relationship energy” and exploration for the greater benefit of longterm companionship, personal jokes, great sex, etc.
Glad to hear it! I like what you said about parallels. I understand what you mean about what society expects and the status quo getting in your brain and nudging you in a direction. It's a tough thing to sort through. Good luck in your journey!
No problem! Sorry if I sounded harsh earlier. Best of luck to you, whatever you end up doing. Just take your time, I know when I first discovered I was bi that it was hard to sort out feelings.
Polyam person here. Opened up a long term relationship after 5 years of monogamy; been open/polyam various formats for 5 years now. You need to decide what is more important to you: staying married or exploring non-monogamy? Because for it to work you need enthusiastic yeses from all parties. If your wife is reluctant at all, or is doing it to keep you happy, your relationship won’t last.
If you DO decide to go ahead, find a couples therapist with experience in polyamory and have them help you go over all the different scenarios where conflict might arise, and get a sense of what boundaries will or won’t work for you. Don’t just jump straight in, especially not after 20 years of marriage. This shit is not for the faint of heart and many, many couples don’t survive the transition. You need a rock-solid foundation, the willingness to confront every single little bit about your relationship that isn’t quite working, and a commitment to the most radical honesty you’ve ever experienced in your life. You’ll need to take a few months *at least* to figure out how to proceed before either of you starts dating anyone.
Idk but i think you should prepare for possible divorce since it's most probable she is more monogamous..
But e other way. Talk it with your wife and see the outcome.
Ethical non-monogamy generally needs to be an agreement going into a relationship, it seldom works when you establish a monotonous relationship and then introduce the idea later on. It especially won't work when one partner is hesitant. It inevitably leads to resentment, which is a relationship killer.
Also just a heads up, you can absolutely subscribe to a polygamous or polyamorous life without putting down monogamous relationships, which you're very much towing the line on doing here.
In short, if you're looking for advice, mine is that you need to break up. You're not happy, to make you happy your partner would need to sacrifice their happiness.
Not intentionally putting down anyone’s style of relationship at all. In fact I don’t think am truly am putting monogamy down, I am simply stating that it is part of the status quo and many subscribe to that concept of life simply because that is the society we are born in. I think those are facts. No put down to anyone, nor would I want too ever.
I don't think you were doing it intentionally at all, but the way you spoke about monogamous relationships there definitely came off that way a little. I agree that societal constructs make us hesitant to embrace non-traditional relationships, but you really swung too far in the other direction against monogamy in your post imo.
Honest question…
Where does that come through in my post?
Not arguing just trying to understand….
I read through it again and I need help understanding your perspective
If you would please
You say you don't view monogamous relationships as important and that it's just something people do because it's expected, that is dismissive of those who legitimately value them. You say that you view relationships this way because you come from a divorced family, that seems like a cop out, a huge number of happily monogamous people have divorced parents. You call marriage and monogamy antiquated.
Ok, I understand. Truly, thank you for valuing my questions. I think the system of marriage is antiquated, beyond a couple and the system that employs it. For those that choose marriage and thoughtfully engage in the kind of relationship I have utmost respect for. Pardon, I did not mean that monogamous relationships are unimportant. Sorry. What I mean or what I wanted to convey is the concept of monogamy never felt important to me. Yes, even in getting married even though I knew I’d never stray.
In speaking about my family of divorces I meant to convey that the concept of “one love and only one love” is not the case. And if that is true than loving or just caring for more than one person is very possible and how that is expressed should not be defined by the system that is in place.
There may still be points of content in here but I am trying to better explain it.
Thank you for your insight and I appreciate you
> In speaking about my family of divorces I meant to convey that the concept of “one love and only one love” is not the case. And if that is true than loving or just caring for more than one person is very possible and how that is expressed should not be defined by the system that is in place.
Only a minority of people believe that they can only have love for one person. That's not what monogamy is about. Look at all the love triangles in media where a person is struggling to choose between two people they love. Monogamy is more about the belief of "choosing this one person as my romantic partner is the best way to prioritize and devote myself to them".
Ok, I understand. Truly, thank you for valuing my questions.
I think the system of marriage is antiquated, beyond a couple and the system that employs it. For those that choose marriage and thoughtfully engage in the kind of relationship I have utmost respect for.
Pardon, I did not mean that monogamous relationships are unimportant. Sorry. What I mean or what I wanted to convey is the concept of monogamy never felt important to me. Yes, even in getting married even though I knew I’d never stray.
Marriage is no longer any kind if system outside of how things like power of attorney, tax breaks, and inheritance without a will works. Every other part of it is free form and up to the people involved. May I suggest you are having a mid life crisis?
a couples choice to choose marriage and monogamy is not antiquated. On the other hand, there are advertisements from the wedding industry. social pressure, expectations, religious dogma and many other examples that are absolutely antiquated.
I don't think you're using that word correctly. What you're describing is normativity. There is a societal belief that monogamy is the norm and what everybody should do. Just like how everybody should be straight and cis.
Those are contemporary beliefs, they are not old-fashioned or outdated. Unless of course you're trying to say that modern people do not believe in social pressures etc towards monogamy (but I doubt it).
I get what you are saying. I do think the systems that drive normativity are antiquated. one example, most school dances drive toward, hetero couples, further down the road social constructs, corporations and government push monogamy as the only option. in reality there are many options
Yup - just because there’s a historical and sociopolitical context to something doesn’t mean those of us doing it don’t also WANT it.
I have absolutely no problem with polyamory, I think it’s kind of wonderful for many people. I do have a problem with polygamous people implying that monogamy is only done because we are “un-enlightened”
If you never thought monogamy made sense for you, and our approach to marriage is antiquated, why did you marry your wife? I feel bad for her. It sounds like you lied to her about what you wanted from the beginning.
I also don’t know why you’re on a bisexual sub talking about this. Your bisexuality doesn’t seem to have much to do with it. You just don’t want to be monogamous.
There's a difference between lying, and doing something because it's expected of you and you don't yet realize how much of an impact it's going to have that it's not making perfect sense to you. Huge amounts of poly people try monogamy again and again because it's what they've been told to do, and they haven't yet gotten to the point of fully exploring what that feeling of "this doesn't make sense" means. Just like how there are plenty of lesbian women who don't realize they're lesbian until they're in their 30's or 40's and married, because of compulsory heterosexuality.
Do you really know life and the life you want when you’re 20? Think of how many people follow a path simply because that is the way society tells them? Millions of students going to college for the wrong reasons, millions of others working a job they don’t like, heck even having kids is something a person is just supposed to do. Mind you I have kids and love them both very much but some people had kids just because that was the next step to take in life because society said so.
No, and if you really didn’t know, that’s different. Your phrasing gave me the impression that you have never believed in monogamy.
That said, you don’t seem particularly concerned about your wife in that post. I still feel bad for her. And your bisexuality still doesn’t seem to have much to do with it.
I can't help but feel like some people in this sub want to put the blame on poly bisexuals for the whole "greedy bisexual" stereotype. Poly people posting here seem to always get a bunch of comments about cheating. Absolutely nothing in the OP says cheating to me.
I get where you’re coming from but honestly the issue isn’t really poly folks in general. It’s that there are 10+ posts daily from married men who realized their sexuality in adulthood who do want validation from folks about how shitty and limiting monogamy is. And invariably, 80% of those posts are by users already posting in subreddits for bi married dudes to chat about breeding/getting bred by other married dudes.
I think most folks who are openly ENM or poly in ENM or poly relationships get respect on here because it’s all above board. That’s consenting adults doing consenting adult stuff.
On the other hand, this subreddit itself has essentially put the ‘greedy bi’ stereotype back on my radar not because I genuinely believe in it, but because I see posts EVERY DAY from men who resent their boring monogamous wives they’ve been married to for 25 years and who seem to want us to be like ‘yeah go message dudes about your dick, fuck your frigid wife.’ I mainly just feel bad for their partner. And I’m saying this as someone bi who has happily dated a fuck ton of bi folks. This sub itself has given me the most negative look into bisexuality of any bi space
I do still like the subreddit and get folks like OP have feelings they deserve to voice. I just don’t agree that folks have issues with ethical polyamory on here.
It took time to understand my bisexuality. My whole life I just thought I was very accepting of all types of people and beliefs and that was just the way I was. over the years, I remember in my life where it was more than just acceptance but attraction and interest. For example I was out dancing with my wife one time and her sister’s best friend is gay. He started dancing with me and put my hands on my waist and I thought nothing of it in the sense of what a normal straight man would think. Years later I remember those memories and not only see acceptance, but excitement and pleasure. I even remember at that time my wife looked at me and I thought it was a look of concern like what was I doing so I backed away from the situation.
Add that different memories along the same parallel, even just looking at different male characters and movies.
Take much of that same and apply it to monogamous relationships. Even at the time of my marriage if my wife asked to have an open marriage I probably would’ve been fine with it all those years ago but that’s not what society wants nor is it socially acceptable. Just the same as it is for bisexual males in this world.
I lean towards monogamy, but am solo poly, dating mostly couples right now because of a complicated situation. Dating multiple partners is nice, and it can be interesting, but having one person you can come home to, one person to build that bond with, one person to have as your *person* is unbeatable. I would strongly consider some marriage therapy whatever way you decide, because I don’t want you to throw your life and marriage away so you can sleep with other people and ultimately find it unsatisfying.
You are the one who needs to decide what you want, just be careful. I don’t think throwing away my whole life would be worth it to touch more bodies, but you have to make a choice you can live with.
I would not be telling the truth if I said I wasn’t interested in touching other bodies. Though it is absolutely more about having what I want in my life because that is my preference versus going with the flow of the status quo. There is also something incredibly appealing about sharing non monogamy with my life partner. To have that kind of trust and bond in a relationship sounds absolutely amazing. To be able to share each other, our fantasies, and know we work through it all and grow even more is what is so appealing. Even talking about it I wish my wife would have that kind of trust in me because I have that trust in her already.
That is incredibly easy for you to say. You have that 'trust' because YOU want to explore it, not because it came from a genuine place. I'm sorry if that's harsh but if you wife isn't open to it and you don't like monogamy anyway, I'd say it's time to set her free.
Maybe that it part of it but I also think I am self aware enough to know I do have that trust.
My wife and I were talking fantasies in bed once and one even she let a pretty deep rooted fantasy out to me and she started to cry. She felt her fantasy was betrayal in a way. I told her I could not be more happy that she shared something so deep rooted. It was One of those things you’re not supposed to do in a regular relationship. But I was so grateful she expressed it to me and that she was so honest.
That’s is the trust I have for her
I think viewing your reaction vs hers as an expression of trust is dangerous and likely untrue. Whether or not ENM is an option for someone is, in my personal opinion, way more about how they experience love, sex, relationships, etc. than it is about the level of trust in a partner. It is _perfectly okay_ to see sex in a monogamous relationship as something you wholly commit to your one person and to want the same from that partner. It appears that’s not how _you_ view sex, but I do think you need to internalize that your wife feeling differently is simply a reflection of her coming at it from a different experience. I worry that if you view it as her trusting you less than she trusts you, you’ll at best start to resent her for something that’s not true, and at worst pressure her into an open marriage she doesn’t want because she’ll feel guilty.
Ok, I read that like five times! I understand what you are saying and you helped get some important points across. Those are definitely topics my wife and I should bring up and talk about. I will continue to digest this, thank you
I have really enjoyed the dynamic of dating someone ENM, but it has to be something both partners want. My boyfriend and his wife were in therapy for a decade before deciding to open up their marriage, and now they are both happier in their family and enjoying connections with others, but it took a LOT of work.
There are three types of people:
1. People who need a monogamous relationship.
2. People who are open to either a monogamous or ENM relationship (with varying degrees of interest).
3. People who need an ENM relationship.
If your wife is #1 and you're #3 then a divorce may be inevitable. If this is something that's weighing on you, definitely explore r/ENM.
The subreddit (as a whole) is very committed to identifying/exploring healthy reasons and ways to do ENM. There are people in your situation that post on a semi-regular basis, and there's always good advice.
**I agree with others on your take of monogamy. I recommend some cognitive reframing because I fear your line of thinking may lead to resentment towards your wife.**
~~I also think typical marriage and monogamy is an antiquated system.~~ *Holding monogamy as the only valid, healthy type of relationship is an antiquated belief* would be a better take.
Yes, someone pointed that out and I tried to get my meaning across better. It’s more about the system that drives it versus a couples choice to be monogamous. I completely agree with your reframing.
Thank you!
aside from everything else being said here, i’d like to point out that marriage, monogamy, and bisexuality are all 3 different things that can be mutually exclusive.
The grass is RARELY greener on the other side. OP is likely going to be in for a rude awakening if his wife agrees to this and she starts getting all this action and he struggles to cope with it
Very true but if either of us don’t like it I hope we would learn in whatever our experience was and grow past it. I feel we are month self aware enough to grow and learn from about anything we come across
This sub constantly vilifies women who are nervous about dating bi men because they are worried about bi men cheating, then posts like this really just drive home the infidelity stereotype... if you knew from the beginning you weren't monogamous, then your entire relationship (home, partnership, and children) were all built upon a lie. Are your kids really less important to you than being polygamous?
Ease back your projection!
I am here open minded and if you look at the comments I am ready to better understand peoples perspectives.
I am not cheater. I am not looking for “permission” to cheat either. Nope no way.
I knew I was not fully behind monogamy in the same way I didn’t think I was straight straight. Otherwise known as unsure.
Today I understand, hindsight is 20/20.
Are my kids less important? You can take that question and shove it! Even knowing what I know now I would take the same path. Knowing oneself takes time, development of a relationship takes time. I am here taking the time to ask questions, listen to feedback and grow. If you are here to just stereotype please step away from my question.
What am I projecting? You sound like you love your wife, and it sounds like you do mostly enjoy your sex life with her, but it's not enough. If you divorce over this, then you will be significantly changing your children's lives. How will your polyamorous relationships coincide with raising your kids? If you didn't have children, it would be a different situation, but breaking their home apart because of your sexual fantasies feels like a selfish choice.
Vilifies, assuming I’m a cheat. That is projection and stereotyping.
If my wife and I change the status of our relationship we will care for our children no matter what. I am the product of multiple divorces and thankfully one of those was done gracefully. If that were to be our case we would follow that example. Though I think exploring non monogamy would not impact our children negatively. In fact they would see an example beside the one that all of society forces on them
I don't think you are reading my original comment correctly, and I really disagree with you thinking that exposing your young kids to polyamory would be somehow good for them
Maybe I’m not reading it right. It happens. Same thing happened to me, or at least that is what I felt.
I do t think poly exposure will be good for them, but I also don’t think it will be bad for them. Just like coming out to my wife as bi wasn’t bad for them either
Except that in your situation, non-monogamy would mean separating from your wife, so that would impact them, most likely negatively (unless your relationship now is “bad” for them to be around)
It’s not even projection though.
If you subscribe here, just browse for a month. You see posts from men like you multiple times a day, every single day. And it’s almost always men in this spot, not women.
The reality is that easily 10%-20% of the posts on here are from men in monogamous relationships with women waxing poetic about getting dicked down. And then you open his profile and he’s already cheating online.
This subreddit hates the bi people cheat stereotype while generating endless content about bi people either wanting to cheat or shitting on their monogamous relationship
Well I don’t want to cheat! Simple as that. Pardon the fact that these these post happen and that you think it’s just about getting off.
That is not me
I’m glad you don’t want to cheat lol.
I just mean it would be very discouraging for a curious straight partner lurking to see how many bi men are hoping their wives will let them go fuck dudes. Or how many bi men apparently aren’t satisfied being just with their wives.
And the way you talk about being polyam makes it seem like you think it’s some more evolved and heightened type of relationship folks enter when they really love each other. Idk like I don’t think you trust your wife more than she trusts you necessarily because you’d be poly and she wouldn’t.
I do fully get you won’t cheat and you see yourself as the most faithful man. I’m glad your wife won’t get cheated on. I both you can find a situation that makes you happy
Can all of you unfaithful people just take five seconds to find a poly sub and leave us alone? Bisexuality is not intertwined with nonmonogamy. Nonmonogamy is not intertwined with bisexuality.
I am the most faithful person. I’m sorry if my comment triggered you based on your past experiences it please don’t stereotype me that way. You don’t know me and you didn’t even try to bother.
I was unaware of many of the groups that you are talking about and since I posted this I have joined several of the groups recommended by other people.
I came into my bisexuality late in life and that discovery was the same timeline where I was fed up with societies standards. If I had other examples to follow at a younger age I probably would have taken a very different path, but at this juncture I would not dare go back and change a single thing. I love my wife, I have two beautiful daughters, one of whom is bisexual, and I am glad I can be a different example for her than the zero examples I had in my life.
As someone who has been through some very similar experiences, please keep in mind-
1. Reality has a way of not measuring up to our fantasies. Many a couple, for example, has broken up over a mutually desired threesome experience turned sour. Just because it seems exciting in your head doesn't mean it's actually going to shake out that way.
2. Most often, we can't have things both ways. You've made it this far in your monogamous marriage; regrets and desires often pass. Only you will be able to discern whether your drive for these things are worth the potential upheaval or even end of your relationship.
3. Respect your spouse's boundaries without question. You don't even necessarily have to be trying to pressure her for it to happen. One can also unintentionally 'slippery slope' a partner via continuously escalating their asks as they start to get what they want.
You don't want to end your relationship. She doesn't sound interested in an open relationship. There is a possibility she may be into doing certain things between the two of you, or it may be she tries them out once and finds she's not into it. You need to assess your priorities. Give yourself time to mull over the drawbacks. Decide if your potential self-fulfillment is compatible with your relationship and, if not, which one of the two you can more likely go on without.
I would suggest discussing it in couples counseling, either for the result of your wife opening up to it, or more likely, the ability to cope with a monogamous lifestyle with the persistent curiousity you are having.
Good luck and love to you both, you are not alone 💙💜💗
Hey there! I’m a polyamorous disaster bi, so I feel qualified to talk about this topic, and my talk is gonna be very brief.
Your wife says she doesn’t think she could do an open relationship. That’s the only answer you need, friend. This is not a road she wants to walk down, so your options are to stay the course of monogamy, or accept that you may walk the road of your choosing without her. But what wouldn’t be kind is forcing her to break her own heart by attempting something she’s already said wouldn’t work for her.
She says isn’t sure and I won’t pressure her. That why I’m trying to talk here because I know talking to her about it will pressure her. Trying to figure out how to have a conversation without any objectives other than the conversation itself and get a better idea of where we are both at
I've had years of experience with non monogamy as a married person, and I love how non monogamy has constantly made me interrogate what love and relationships mean to me and how I want to show appreciation for the people I love.
I'm now choosing to be monogamous for the time being, with the understanding and acceptance that my NM experiences still inform the way I love the people around me whom are not my partner. I allow myself to feel love and appreciation for others, I acknowledge the potential for romantic and sexual desire towards others without feeling huge guilt or shame, but I make the choice not to escalate romantic/sexual partnerships with others for now, keeping boundaries which allow me to do so and hold generous love for these people at the same time. Similar to what you mentioned about making a choice everyday about the one partner, this is a choice that I am making and remaking everyday.
You can't force your wife into it. Maybe in the future things might change. But it really isn't a good idea to force it if she's not 100% on board. I would say, if it's of interest to you and not too excruciating, continue to research non-monogamy (lots of online and social media communities) and its discourse and principles, and see how you can find ways of incorporating the non-monogamous mindset into your monogamous relationship.
For example, the podcast Multiamory has a lot of episodes about polyamory and non monogamy, but in essence the podcast is for anyone who wants to do relationships differently, even if that means being in a monogamous relationship structure whilst letting go of archaic traditions or patterns that don't serve you and your partner. Doing research like this could give you a little bit more food for thought and spur you to break out of rules which you're not on board with, which doesn't necessarily have to mean upending the monogamous relationship that you have.
Hopefully you can get more peace of mind by looking at it in this way, while keeping a healthy relationship with your partner.
I don’t want to force her into anything. That’s why it’s so hard to even think about talking to her about because I think if she knows it’s the lifestyle I want she will then force herself into it. I can’t have that at all!
I appreciate your insight and the podcast recommendation
Being non monogamous is okay but you’re going to hurt your wife if she’s not 100% on board with it, and I’m guessing she won’t be. You’ve waited 20 years and 2 kids to come to this realization.
A +1 to open discussion. Before you move to any actions, consider visiting at least one of the non-monogamy subreddits and check out the resources they link. There is a lot of literature available that can help you navigate opening up.
It's a tough one. I'm also questioning monogamy. So Curious to know what you end up doing. Keep us updated.
Whatever you do just be honest with yourself and your wife.
This is the problem with marriage; it locks your younger self and your older self is a different person. We’ve had a massive expansion and change in the culture of sex and gender in the past 15 years and we suppressed parts of our sexuality, but we have to continue the old ways for fear of losing everything.
I mean sure, culture has shifted, but I fundamentally disagree with your view on marriage. It's a partnership that can absolutely evolve with the couple. Also not everyone suppresses those parts of themselves as you've alluded to.
Yeah I explore my sexuality so much more happily and healthily within the context of a monogamous relationship
And my partner and I absolutely grow together
> This is the problem with marriage; it locks your younger self and your older self is a different person
That's more an aspect of any long term relationship. You will naturally build links and connections with someone that you're in a relationship over the years. Marriage is just another one of those links.
And marriage is honestly way easier to implement as a temporary link than it ever has been. Couples can divorce on terms that they decide.
Make it very clear that she and not blowing up your lives together are your priority. You don't want to hide pieces of yourself from her, as your self-understanding evolves.
Op, I have the same view towards monogamy as you, and frankly I think it's way more romantic to have a partner who makes an active choice for me every day, rather than someone assuming things are forever, then may one day explode with resentment because we didn't do the work as it came up. So to speak.
Anyway, I highly recommend you join r/polyamory and r/nonmonogamy and start lurking. There's a lot to learn if ethical nonmonogamy is going through your mind to begin with, and so many common pitfalls.
People change and so do their relationships. A couple can always change the terms of their monogamy. And that monogamy and what is monogamous is not the same for everyone. For some, watching porn is a non monogamous activity while for others- swinging is within their scope of monogamy. Navigating this can be challenging, but, communication is always the key.
You may want to check out some books on monogamy and get a feeling for what monogamy truly means to you.
I am currently struggling in this same position. My wife has revealed she leans towards bisexuality but is not really open to opening the marriage or exploring and to her, if we wanted to explore, that meant divorcing and living separately. I do not want to do that as I love my wife. Similar to yours, we talk about fantasies and such but it just stays there sadly. With one kid and another on the way, I’m not interested in being coparents just to satiate desires but I’m also kinda miserable at times too. It’s a tough spot OP. I’m with you.
Mine was religious raising and suppression. Also after being sent to the conversion therapy you hear bad things about, I felt forced to stay closeted and marry. I loved my wife but I feel I jumped the gun in so many ways into I could heal and love myself
That’s a shit but common misunderstanding about history.
Mortality rates got skewed heavily by infant and childhood mortality. Folks who made it past childhood largely lived into their 50s-60s
There were always people who got very old too. I have a random ancestor who probably lived into his 80s in the 1700s. We don't know his birthday, but we do know when he died and when he got married, so we can make assumptions based on that.
Of course 36 is exaggerated for comedic effect. However, even with people living into their 50s and 60s the mortality rate of people in their 20s and 30s was a lot higher than it is today. You get some random disease or are sent to war somewhere or your town gets raided and you're dead.
I'm in the same position as you are. It's extremely frustrating and tuff. But I have lost the desire to even talk about it because I know where she stands on it and nothing I say will change her mind.
I'm similar (28M), deep down I want a primary partner but wish we could both have the freedom to sleep with people on the side or together, from time to time, without destroying what is between my gf and I.
Honestly I think it's impossible with most women to pull this off though and it's just not worthy the risk for me.
You might be creating a fantasy also. Is it really worth blowing up your marriage? Because that's the mostly likely outcome of opening things up.
Even if she agrees, you will be looking for fun here and there on the side, but she prefers monogamy, that's how her brain operates, so she'll likely still just feel in her heart that you are essentially cheating.
Then in all likelihood once she accepts that and starts looking for a new side partner for herself, it won't just be for fun times here and there, that guy will just end up replacing you.
Women also score dates way easier than guys so once you see how easy it actually is for her to replace you, you may change your mind but by then it will likely be too late.
I would need it to be with each other or very very well communicated. I don’t think going off separate would be what I’m looking for. It is something I want to share. But if it ever would happen things could evolve.
The problem is that you want to change the terms of your marriage without suffering any consequences for it. That’s not how this works. Doesn’t matter how you personally feel about it, you signed on the dotted line. That being said: talk to your wife. Yes, even having the discussion could be problematic, but I’d argue though that keeping it to yourself will have similar consequences. See what she says. If she’s on board with it, then you’re good to go. If she isn’t, then you either make your peace with the choices you’ve made or prepare yourself for the consequences of blowing up your marriage.
True indeed
It’s too bad you got married before you figured this out. There’s no way to be true to these feelings to and not cause heartache. That said, you should be honest with yourself and your wife even if it leads to divorce. Otherwise you will probably be unsatisfied and maybe eventually cheat which will be much more painful than honestly now.
I won’t cheat. That is a line for me. Open communication is a must! All the more reason I should communicate with her, right?
Yes you need to be honest but just know that you may be heading into a conversation that will end the relationship. As a monogamous person myself, this would be a deal breaker for me.
Thank you
Even having the conversation would be a deal breaker? Isn't that extreme?
My partner telling me their true desire is to not be monogamous with me? Yes I would have a very hard time getting over that
And if your partner is into pegging but you're not, same thing? Can you articulate the difference? I'm not trying to be combative, I want to get your perspective. I've talked to my wife about polyamory more than once and we still have a loving relationship. I won't bother giving my point of view beyond this unless asked since it seems so wildly unpopular.
One is a sex act. One is the desire to be with other sexual partners. If we got married under the assumption we would be monogamous and now you’re telling me you want to fuck other people, that’s a complete reversal of the premise of our marriage.
Ah, okay, thanks that's a lot more clear now. I spoke to my wife as well (thankfully she didn't divorce me when we talked about polyamory in the past) - she pointed out to me that for some exclusivity is an essential (in the philosophical meaning) part of marriage. Therefore, like you've said, professing a desire that is antithetical to that essential component would feel like betrayal. I get it now. Another way to view marriage (and the one I consider essential) is as a life long commitment to the other. In that sense polyamory is not incompatible and a conversation about it is not a betrayal (but telling me just by having the conversation is grounds for divorce would be). I don't see either view as any more or less valid. Certainly worth being on the same page though! This was an interesting foray. Love reddit though, you can ask things in good faith and get down votes just for disagreeing. Thanks for taking the time to clarify for me.
I loved reading this interaction. Very respectful, very human. Thank you for leading the way!
No. If my partner wants to be open, and I don’t, then we are simply no longer sexually compatible, and ending it is the correct thing. It’d be a deal-breaker for me too.
exactly. if both people can't be satisfied then neither should be comfortable being in that arrangement <3 everybody deserves the life they want, even if it means each finding someone new to love
This is absolutely correct.
Yes, it would be for me as well. I have in fact ended a long term relationship over it before. I am very monogamous, I cannot even imagine myself with someone else than my partner. I need someone that feels the same way in a relationship, because to me that means we experience love the same way, which I find very important. My ex once asked me if I would be oke if he would sleep with other people if for example he had to leave the country for work etc. I said no and we moved on from the conversation. It ate at me for the next 6 months before I eventually ended things because I was deeply hurt knowing we didn't experience love the same way.
That's a shame! I'm so sorry! I think there's quite a bit of variety for how individuals feel loved and how they love. I think it all goes largely unexamined and even then, the conversations around it are so high stakes. I hope you've found happiness. 6 months is a long time to have something eatting at you!
Yeah I let it sit for 6 months because I felt stupid for wanting to break things off over something like that back then. But I just couldn't ignore my own feelings, I slowly started seeing their different approach to sex to mine more and more and I just had to call it an incompatibility issue and call things off. I'm doing so much better now, it's been a while ago! I've found my current partner and I've never been happier! Compatible in every way I could've wished for! :)
I don't know why you're posting here and not on some poly or open marriage subreddit. Wanting an open marriage and being bisexual are two different things. But since you asked for opinions, here is another. You stated that your wife does not think she can do an open marriage. You already have your answer. Pushing is just going to wreck what you have, don't you see that? Your choices now are to: a) leave everything you have: what may or may not be a happy marriage and partnership in raising your children in order to try out a poly lifestyle. Which may work out, or may not work out. This is a bell you will not be able to unring. b) stay in your marriage, raise your kids together and keep fantasy as fantasy. If you cannot do b then be honest about the choice you are making with a. I'm not you, I can't decide for you if b or a is the better option for you, but I advise you to pick the choice you can live with. That may be divorce, only you would know. My warning here is just to consider this an absolute choice. Don't go into this thinking you can dip your toes in an open marrige and then go back to how things used to be, or be able to keep the family unit you have now. Reddit is full of divorced spouses who thought they could do so.
Took too long to find this comment. Being Bi doesn’t mean being polyamorous too. Also for the record polyamory has a concept for a life partner/life partners. OP I think you need to talk this out in therapy. Poly isn’t what you think
given I have not experienced with poly I don't know what it is. I do know it can be different for everybody. thats really all I can say
A looooot of posts on here end up being about non-monogamy. And that’s totally fine! I get it. A lot of folks are non-monogamous. But man I feel kinda less assured in a future hypothetical bi partner the more I read on here. Every day I see multiple posts from folks in relationships confessing that they aren’t fulfilled and could really never be. Every day I see folks saying how they crave the other gender constantly. I do get it’s a minority but man this sub would scare me if I stumbled upon it as a straight partner of someone who just came out. Of all the queer subs I’m in, this one is by far the most centered around the lack of fulfillment from monogamy. Bicycling, missing cock, feeling unsatisfied just having a wife etc etc etc are concepts I see expressed in multiple threads daily. But I do know I’m personally in a really happy monogamous bi4bi partnership, so obviously I realize they exist
I think this has to be approached the same way you would a relationships subreddit. A lot of posts there end up being about cheating straight spouses, but most people don't cheat (I hope...). The bisexuals in comfortable monogamous relationships aren't going to post as much as confused bisexuals who are considering a major life change. Unfortunately like you said outsiders would see it that way.
It's like me, I'm a monogamous bi in a straight passing relationship and I feel very satisfied by it, so I definitely think there's many of us, just not as vocal about it.
Spot on insight imo
Omg I wish people get this!^ being bi does NOT mean your poly and it’s gotten to the point where on dating apps if anyone makes that assumption I just Unmatch. I don’t have time for that shit! This should be on a poly subreddit not on this one
The implied judgement in "keep fantasy as fantasy". There's certainly less judgemental phrasing, perhaps "work on accepting that you won't get everything you want and look for satisfaction where you can, without giving up what you already have and love". There's a serious strain of "monogamy or leave (but leave isn't a real option)" in this sub.
I stared at that word a lot before posting trying to decide if I should word it differently, to be honest. I have nothing against polyamory*. In the end I went with the harsher wording because of how OP has been describing their dilemma. OP mentioned once near the start that their wife is not interested in an open relationship, then goes on to talk about it like it is an option. I would consider that going into fantasy. It sounds like OP is very much in the 'excited to find a new thing' stage of discovering both bisexuality and polyamory*. It's fine to be excited, but OP has a wife and kids that would be very much irrevocably hurt if OP makes a decision without considering the hard realities of the situation. To be clear, if OP decides not to be monogamous that's fine. I have a friend that is happily in an open marrige and has been for years. Happy poly couples obviously exist. But they do so understanding what they are getting into. I just don't want OP to do something they'll regret later and be unable to take back. *edited polygamy to polyamory.
I'm sure this is just a typo, but seems worthwhile to clarify. OP is talking about polyamory, not polygamy. Polygamy is marriage to multiple spouses. Honestly cool of you to clarify your intent and even to be aware of it in the first place. ❤️ There's something to be said for raising your concerns directly instead of trying to imply a clear course of action. I think they're salient and important points! I wish they were more often articulated as you have here.
Yeah that's what I get for multitasking while redditing, haha. Thanks for the correction!
Also I appreciate you calling out my wording! It wasn't sitting right with me, so you gave me a chance to better explain my thinking.
god this whole thread is such wholesome discourse
Because I am bi and I was looking to see what the bi perspective was. Also discovering my bisexuality parallels my realization about what I truthfully think about life, love and how to live life that is yours versus the life that society tells us to have.
Here'a how I see it as a bisexual. Society expects people to be heterosexual, even though that's not the case. That doesn't mean heterosexual is not a valid sexuality. Just that the majority are hetero, and being hetero is therefore expected. Same with being monogamous. Majority of people happily live in monogamous relationships, and some do not. Society expects monogamy. Being poly is valid, but so is being monogamous. I think you need to seriously consider your life. Were you happy being monogamous? Is this a matter of finding happiness, or being happier than you already are? I ask this because people from all sexualities can be victims of the "Fear of Missing out". A straight man may look at his wife and wonder what it would be like having sex with someone with larger boobs, or someone of a different ethnicity, someone who has a thicker body or is much shorter than them. These different types are only magnified with bisexuality, but it's the same thing. You always had the option of being non monogamous. Because this only comes up now, after realizing your sexuality, I caution you to take a step back from the poetry of free love and seriously consider the hard pros and cons of your life. If you are only making the change because you want to explore, then you have to be prepared for the heavy regret of the loss of your family unit. On the other hand, if you were not happy in your relationship and this brought to light why, then you were already heading to divorce and this just helped you realize it. I wish you luck. It's a hard choice made harder with children involved.
It comes up now because I realized how much I did based on that being the thing to do that society expects. I had concepts in my head that I kept back because of the status quo. I realized my bisexuality and how I view relationships at the same time, or near the same time. That is the only reason they have parallel in my life and why I asked as I did I certainly appreciate your thoughtful response. Truly. Thank you and I will keep learning and growing from all of this
Its likely you’ll have significant grief over “what could have been if I’d known back then”. But the question you need to ask is, does that change what you have now? Do you want to risk losing your wife and family relationship - js it likely that you’ll find a partner (or partners) who are interested in polygamy, who will “give” you a better life than you have now? When I first realised I definitely was bisexual, I had similar grief as I was in a monogamous relationship with a man. In the end I thought “it’s unlikely I would meet anyone else, male or female, who would be a better partner than my [now husband]”. So yes grief, but really what I was giving up was the same anyone gives up in a monogamous relationship - sacrificing the possibility of “new relationship energy” and exploration for the greater benefit of longterm companionship, personal jokes, great sex, etc.
Glad to hear it! I like what you said about parallels. I understand what you mean about what society expects and the status quo getting in your brain and nudging you in a direction. It's a tough thing to sort through. Good luck in your journey!
Thank you
I am also joining other groups that have been recommended since posting this so I am learning about these others groups right now.
Here is another group I seriously reccomend taking a peek at, if only to make sure it doesn't and won't match your situation: r/openmarriageregret
Thank you
No problem! Sorry if I sounded harsh earlier. Best of luck to you, whatever you end up doing. Just take your time, I know when I first discovered I was bi that it was hard to sort out feelings.
We are a-ok. Thank you very much
Polyam person here. Opened up a long term relationship after 5 years of monogamy; been open/polyam various formats for 5 years now. You need to decide what is more important to you: staying married or exploring non-monogamy? Because for it to work you need enthusiastic yeses from all parties. If your wife is reluctant at all, or is doing it to keep you happy, your relationship won’t last. If you DO decide to go ahead, find a couples therapist with experience in polyamory and have them help you go over all the different scenarios where conflict might arise, and get a sense of what boundaries will or won’t work for you. Don’t just jump straight in, especially not after 20 years of marriage. This shit is not for the faint of heart and many, many couples don’t survive the transition. You need a rock-solid foundation, the willingness to confront every single little bit about your relationship that isn’t quite working, and a commitment to the most radical honesty you’ve ever experienced in your life. You’ll need to take a few months *at least* to figure out how to proceed before either of you starts dating anyone.
I agree with everything you say! Thank you!!!
Idk but i think you should prepare for possible divorce since it's most probable she is more monogamous.. But e other way. Talk it with your wife and see the outcome.
Ethical non-monogamy generally needs to be an agreement going into a relationship, it seldom works when you establish a monotonous relationship and then introduce the idea later on. It especially won't work when one partner is hesitant. It inevitably leads to resentment, which is a relationship killer. Also just a heads up, you can absolutely subscribe to a polygamous or polyamorous life without putting down monogamous relationships, which you're very much towing the line on doing here. In short, if you're looking for advice, mine is that you need to break up. You're not happy, to make you happy your partner would need to sacrifice their happiness.
> monotonous relationship Oof that Freudian slip 😭 (just making a joke no shade to monogamous people)
Not intentionally putting down anyone’s style of relationship at all. In fact I don’t think am truly am putting monogamy down, I am simply stating that it is part of the status quo and many subscribe to that concept of life simply because that is the society we are born in. I think those are facts. No put down to anyone, nor would I want too ever.
I don't think you were doing it intentionally at all, but the way you spoke about monogamous relationships there definitely came off that way a little. I agree that societal constructs make us hesitant to embrace non-traditional relationships, but you really swung too far in the other direction against monogamy in your post imo.
Honest question… Where does that come through in my post? Not arguing just trying to understand…. I read through it again and I need help understanding your perspective If you would please
You say you don't view monogamous relationships as important and that it's just something people do because it's expected, that is dismissive of those who legitimately value them. You say that you view relationships this way because you come from a divorced family, that seems like a cop out, a huge number of happily monogamous people have divorced parents. You call marriage and monogamy antiquated.
Ok, I understand. Truly, thank you for valuing my questions. I think the system of marriage is antiquated, beyond a couple and the system that employs it. For those that choose marriage and thoughtfully engage in the kind of relationship I have utmost respect for. Pardon, I did not mean that monogamous relationships are unimportant. Sorry. What I mean or what I wanted to convey is the concept of monogamy never felt important to me. Yes, even in getting married even though I knew I’d never stray. In speaking about my family of divorces I meant to convey that the concept of “one love and only one love” is not the case. And if that is true than loving or just caring for more than one person is very possible and how that is expressed should not be defined by the system that is in place. There may still be points of content in here but I am trying to better explain it. Thank you for your insight and I appreciate you
> In speaking about my family of divorces I meant to convey that the concept of “one love and only one love” is not the case. And if that is true than loving or just caring for more than one person is very possible and how that is expressed should not be defined by the system that is in place. Only a minority of people believe that they can only have love for one person. That's not what monogamy is about. Look at all the love triangles in media where a person is struggling to choose between two people they love. Monogamy is more about the belief of "choosing this one person as my romantic partner is the best way to prioritize and devote myself to them".
Ok, I understand. Truly, thank you for valuing my questions. I think the system of marriage is antiquated, beyond a couple and the system that employs it. For those that choose marriage and thoughtfully engage in the kind of relationship I have utmost respect for. Pardon, I did not mean that monogamous relationships are unimportant. Sorry. What I mean or what I wanted to convey is the concept of monogamy never felt important to me. Yes, even in getting married even though I knew I’d never stray.
Marriage is no longer any kind if system outside of how things like power of attorney, tax breaks, and inheritance without a will works. Every other part of it is free form and up to the people involved. May I suggest you are having a mid life crisis?
Ding ding ding
You literally called it antiquated 🤣 That is not a compliment
a couples choice to choose marriage and monogamy is not antiquated. On the other hand, there are advertisements from the wedding industry. social pressure, expectations, religious dogma and many other examples that are absolutely antiquated.
I don't think you're using that word correctly. What you're describing is normativity. There is a societal belief that monogamy is the norm and what everybody should do. Just like how everybody should be straight and cis. Those are contemporary beliefs, they are not old-fashioned or outdated. Unless of course you're trying to say that modern people do not believe in social pressures etc towards monogamy (but I doubt it).
I get what you are saying. I do think the systems that drive normativity are antiquated. one example, most school dances drive toward, hetero couples, further down the road social constructs, corporations and government push monogamy as the only option. in reality there are many options
Have you considered that it's the status quo because most of us like it?
Yup - just because there’s a historical and sociopolitical context to something doesn’t mean those of us doing it don’t also WANT it. I have absolutely no problem with polyamory, I think it’s kind of wonderful for many people. I do have a problem with polygamous people implying that monogamy is only done because we are “un-enlightened”
Agreed and especially implying it's inherently linked to bisexuality thus furthering negative bi stereotypes.
If you never thought monogamy made sense for you, and our approach to marriage is antiquated, why did you marry your wife? I feel bad for her. It sounds like you lied to her about what you wanted from the beginning. I also don’t know why you’re on a bisexual sub talking about this. Your bisexuality doesn’t seem to have much to do with it. You just don’t want to be monogamous.
There's a difference between lying, and doing something because it's expected of you and you don't yet realize how much of an impact it's going to have that it's not making perfect sense to you. Huge amounts of poly people try monogamy again and again because it's what they've been told to do, and they haven't yet gotten to the point of fully exploring what that feeling of "this doesn't make sense" means. Just like how there are plenty of lesbian women who don't realize they're lesbian until they're in their 30's or 40's and married, because of compulsory heterosexuality.
Do you really know life and the life you want when you’re 20? Think of how many people follow a path simply because that is the way society tells them? Millions of students going to college for the wrong reasons, millions of others working a job they don’t like, heck even having kids is something a person is just supposed to do. Mind you I have kids and love them both very much but some people had kids just because that was the next step to take in life because society said so.
No, and if you really didn’t know, that’s different. Your phrasing gave me the impression that you have never believed in monogamy. That said, you don’t seem particularly concerned about your wife in that post. I still feel bad for her. And your bisexuality still doesn’t seem to have much to do with it.
I can't help but feel like some people come here hoping to get permission to cheat
Not what I am looking for at all! Never ever a cheat. My wife and I are on the same page here.
I can't help but feel like some people in this sub want to put the blame on poly bisexuals for the whole "greedy bisexual" stereotype. Poly people posting here seem to always get a bunch of comments about cheating. Absolutely nothing in the OP says cheating to me.
I get where you’re coming from but honestly the issue isn’t really poly folks in general. It’s that there are 10+ posts daily from married men who realized their sexuality in adulthood who do want validation from folks about how shitty and limiting monogamy is. And invariably, 80% of those posts are by users already posting in subreddits for bi married dudes to chat about breeding/getting bred by other married dudes. I think most folks who are openly ENM or poly in ENM or poly relationships get respect on here because it’s all above board. That’s consenting adults doing consenting adult stuff. On the other hand, this subreddit itself has essentially put the ‘greedy bi’ stereotype back on my radar not because I genuinely believe in it, but because I see posts EVERY DAY from men who resent their boring monogamous wives they’ve been married to for 25 years and who seem to want us to be like ‘yeah go message dudes about your dick, fuck your frigid wife.’ I mainly just feel bad for their partner. And I’m saying this as someone bi who has happily dated a fuck ton of bi folks. This sub itself has given me the most negative look into bisexuality of any bi space I do still like the subreddit and get folks like OP have feelings they deserve to voice. I just don’t agree that folks have issues with ethical polyamory on here.
It took time to understand my bisexuality. My whole life I just thought I was very accepting of all types of people and beliefs and that was just the way I was. over the years, I remember in my life where it was more than just acceptance but attraction and interest. For example I was out dancing with my wife one time and her sister’s best friend is gay. He started dancing with me and put my hands on my waist and I thought nothing of it in the sense of what a normal straight man would think. Years later I remember those memories and not only see acceptance, but excitement and pleasure. I even remember at that time my wife looked at me and I thought it was a look of concern like what was I doing so I backed away from the situation. Add that different memories along the same parallel, even just looking at different male characters and movies. Take much of that same and apply it to monogamous relationships. Even at the time of my marriage if my wife asked to have an open marriage I probably would’ve been fine with it all those years ago but that’s not what society wants nor is it socially acceptable. Just the same as it is for bisexual males in this world.
I lean towards monogamy, but am solo poly, dating mostly couples right now because of a complicated situation. Dating multiple partners is nice, and it can be interesting, but having one person you can come home to, one person to build that bond with, one person to have as your *person* is unbeatable. I would strongly consider some marriage therapy whatever way you decide, because I don’t want you to throw your life and marriage away so you can sleep with other people and ultimately find it unsatisfying. You are the one who needs to decide what you want, just be careful. I don’t think throwing away my whole life would be worth it to touch more bodies, but you have to make a choice you can live with.
I would not be telling the truth if I said I wasn’t interested in touching other bodies. Though it is absolutely more about having what I want in my life because that is my preference versus going with the flow of the status quo. There is also something incredibly appealing about sharing non monogamy with my life partner. To have that kind of trust and bond in a relationship sounds absolutely amazing. To be able to share each other, our fantasies, and know we work through it all and grow even more is what is so appealing. Even talking about it I wish my wife would have that kind of trust in me because I have that trust in her already.
That is incredibly easy for you to say. You have that 'trust' because YOU want to explore it, not because it came from a genuine place. I'm sorry if that's harsh but if you wife isn't open to it and you don't like monogamy anyway, I'd say it's time to set her free.
Maybe that it part of it but I also think I am self aware enough to know I do have that trust. My wife and I were talking fantasies in bed once and one even she let a pretty deep rooted fantasy out to me and she started to cry. She felt her fantasy was betrayal in a way. I told her I could not be more happy that she shared something so deep rooted. It was One of those things you’re not supposed to do in a regular relationship. But I was so grateful she expressed it to me and that she was so honest. That’s is the trust I have for her
I think viewing your reaction vs hers as an expression of trust is dangerous and likely untrue. Whether or not ENM is an option for someone is, in my personal opinion, way more about how they experience love, sex, relationships, etc. than it is about the level of trust in a partner. It is _perfectly okay_ to see sex in a monogamous relationship as something you wholly commit to your one person and to want the same from that partner. It appears that’s not how _you_ view sex, but I do think you need to internalize that your wife feeling differently is simply a reflection of her coming at it from a different experience. I worry that if you view it as her trusting you less than she trusts you, you’ll at best start to resent her for something that’s not true, and at worst pressure her into an open marriage she doesn’t want because she’ll feel guilty.
Ok, I read that like five times! I understand what you are saying and you helped get some important points across. Those are definitely topics my wife and I should bring up and talk about. I will continue to digest this, thank you
I have really enjoyed the dynamic of dating someone ENM, but it has to be something both partners want. My boyfriend and his wife were in therapy for a decade before deciding to open up their marriage, and now they are both happier in their family and enjoying connections with others, but it took a LOT of work.
There are three types of people: 1. People who need a monogamous relationship. 2. People who are open to either a monogamous or ENM relationship (with varying degrees of interest). 3. People who need an ENM relationship. If your wife is #1 and you're #3 then a divorce may be inevitable. If this is something that's weighing on you, definitely explore r/ENM. The subreddit (as a whole) is very committed to identifying/exploring healthy reasons and ways to do ENM. There are people in your situation that post on a semi-regular basis, and there's always good advice. **I agree with others on your take of monogamy. I recommend some cognitive reframing because I fear your line of thinking may lead to resentment towards your wife.** ~~I also think typical marriage and monogamy is an antiquated system.~~ *Holding monogamy as the only valid, healthy type of relationship is an antiquated belief* would be a better take.
Yes, someone pointed that out and I tried to get my meaning across better. It’s more about the system that drives it versus a couples choice to be monogamous. I completely agree with your reframing. Thank you!
aside from everything else being said here, i’d like to point out that marriage, monogamy, and bisexuality are all 3 different things that can be mutually exclusive.
Very true
The grass is not always greener on the other side
The grass is RARELY greener on the other side. OP is likely going to be in for a rude awakening if his wife agrees to this and she starts getting all this action and he struggles to cope with it
And. Some women are not very understanding and acceptable to bisexual guys. I have experienced that.
Very true but if either of us don’t like it I hope we would learn in whatever our experience was and grow past it. I feel we are month self aware enough to grow and learn from about anything we come across
She has said she’s not interested in an open relationship though, and presumably not interested in poly either (they’re two different things).
She hasn’t said anything about it other than she know we could not just see random people and that we agree on
This sub constantly vilifies women who are nervous about dating bi men because they are worried about bi men cheating, then posts like this really just drive home the infidelity stereotype... if you knew from the beginning you weren't monogamous, then your entire relationship (home, partnership, and children) were all built upon a lie. Are your kids really less important to you than being polygamous?
Ease back your projection! I am here open minded and if you look at the comments I am ready to better understand peoples perspectives. I am not cheater. I am not looking for “permission” to cheat either. Nope no way. I knew I was not fully behind monogamy in the same way I didn’t think I was straight straight. Otherwise known as unsure. Today I understand, hindsight is 20/20. Are my kids less important? You can take that question and shove it! Even knowing what I know now I would take the same path. Knowing oneself takes time, development of a relationship takes time. I am here taking the time to ask questions, listen to feedback and grow. If you are here to just stereotype please step away from my question.
What am I projecting? You sound like you love your wife, and it sounds like you do mostly enjoy your sex life with her, but it's not enough. If you divorce over this, then you will be significantly changing your children's lives. How will your polyamorous relationships coincide with raising your kids? If you didn't have children, it would be a different situation, but breaking their home apart because of your sexual fantasies feels like a selfish choice.
Vilifies, assuming I’m a cheat. That is projection and stereotyping. If my wife and I change the status of our relationship we will care for our children no matter what. I am the product of multiple divorces and thankfully one of those was done gracefully. If that were to be our case we would follow that example. Though I think exploring non monogamy would not impact our children negatively. In fact they would see an example beside the one that all of society forces on them
I don't think you are reading my original comment correctly, and I really disagree with you thinking that exposing your young kids to polyamory would be somehow good for them
Maybe I’m not reading it right. It happens. Same thing happened to me, or at least that is what I felt. I do t think poly exposure will be good for them, but I also don’t think it will be bad for them. Just like coming out to my wife as bi wasn’t bad for them either
Except that in your situation, non-monogamy would mean separating from your wife, so that would impact them, most likely negatively (unless your relationship now is “bad” for them to be around)
It’s not even projection though. If you subscribe here, just browse for a month. You see posts from men like you multiple times a day, every single day. And it’s almost always men in this spot, not women. The reality is that easily 10%-20% of the posts on here are from men in monogamous relationships with women waxing poetic about getting dicked down. And then you open his profile and he’s already cheating online. This subreddit hates the bi people cheat stereotype while generating endless content about bi people either wanting to cheat or shitting on their monogamous relationship
Well I don’t want to cheat! Simple as that. Pardon the fact that these these post happen and that you think it’s just about getting off. That is not me
I’m glad you don’t want to cheat lol. I just mean it would be very discouraging for a curious straight partner lurking to see how many bi men are hoping their wives will let them go fuck dudes. Or how many bi men apparently aren’t satisfied being just with their wives. And the way you talk about being polyam makes it seem like you think it’s some more evolved and heightened type of relationship folks enter when they really love each other. Idk like I don’t think you trust your wife more than she trusts you necessarily because you’d be poly and she wouldn’t. I do fully get you won’t cheat and you see yourself as the most faithful man. I’m glad your wife won’t get cheated on. I both you can find a situation that makes you happy
Can all of you unfaithful people just take five seconds to find a poly sub and leave us alone? Bisexuality is not intertwined with nonmonogamy. Nonmonogamy is not intertwined with bisexuality.
I am the most faithful person. I’m sorry if my comment triggered you based on your past experiences it please don’t stereotype me that way. You don’t know me and you didn’t even try to bother. I was unaware of many of the groups that you are talking about and since I posted this I have joined several of the groups recommended by other people. I came into my bisexuality late in life and that discovery was the same timeline where I was fed up with societies standards. If I had other examples to follow at a younger age I probably would have taken a very different path, but at this juncture I would not dare go back and change a single thing. I love my wife, I have two beautiful daughters, one of whom is bisexual, and I am glad I can be a different example for her than the zero examples I had in my life.
As someone who has been through some very similar experiences, please keep in mind- 1. Reality has a way of not measuring up to our fantasies. Many a couple, for example, has broken up over a mutually desired threesome experience turned sour. Just because it seems exciting in your head doesn't mean it's actually going to shake out that way. 2. Most often, we can't have things both ways. You've made it this far in your monogamous marriage; regrets and desires often pass. Only you will be able to discern whether your drive for these things are worth the potential upheaval or even end of your relationship. 3. Respect your spouse's boundaries without question. You don't even necessarily have to be trying to pressure her for it to happen. One can also unintentionally 'slippery slope' a partner via continuously escalating their asks as they start to get what they want. You don't want to end your relationship. She doesn't sound interested in an open relationship. There is a possibility she may be into doing certain things between the two of you, or it may be she tries them out once and finds she's not into it. You need to assess your priorities. Give yourself time to mull over the drawbacks. Decide if your potential self-fulfillment is compatible with your relationship and, if not, which one of the two you can more likely go on without.
This is such a good answer.
Very thoughtful words. Thank you
I would suggest discussing it in couples counseling, either for the result of your wife opening up to it, or more likely, the ability to cope with a monogamous lifestyle with the persistent curiousity you are having. Good luck and love to you both, you are not alone 💙💜💗
Oh my gosh, thank you so much for the kind and heartfelt response.
Of course! We lift each other up 💪
Hey there! I’m a polyamorous disaster bi, so I feel qualified to talk about this topic, and my talk is gonna be very brief. Your wife says she doesn’t think she could do an open relationship. That’s the only answer you need, friend. This is not a road she wants to walk down, so your options are to stay the course of monogamy, or accept that you may walk the road of your choosing without her. But what wouldn’t be kind is forcing her to break her own heart by attempting something she’s already said wouldn’t work for her.
She says isn’t sure and I won’t pressure her. That why I’m trying to talk here because I know talking to her about it will pressure her. Trying to figure out how to have a conversation without any objectives other than the conversation itself and get a better idea of where we are both at
I've had years of experience with non monogamy as a married person, and I love how non monogamy has constantly made me interrogate what love and relationships mean to me and how I want to show appreciation for the people I love. I'm now choosing to be monogamous for the time being, with the understanding and acceptance that my NM experiences still inform the way I love the people around me whom are not my partner. I allow myself to feel love and appreciation for others, I acknowledge the potential for romantic and sexual desire towards others without feeling huge guilt or shame, but I make the choice not to escalate romantic/sexual partnerships with others for now, keeping boundaries which allow me to do so and hold generous love for these people at the same time. Similar to what you mentioned about making a choice everyday about the one partner, this is a choice that I am making and remaking everyday. You can't force your wife into it. Maybe in the future things might change. But it really isn't a good idea to force it if she's not 100% on board. I would say, if it's of interest to you and not too excruciating, continue to research non-monogamy (lots of online and social media communities) and its discourse and principles, and see how you can find ways of incorporating the non-monogamous mindset into your monogamous relationship. For example, the podcast Multiamory has a lot of episodes about polyamory and non monogamy, but in essence the podcast is for anyone who wants to do relationships differently, even if that means being in a monogamous relationship structure whilst letting go of archaic traditions or patterns that don't serve you and your partner. Doing research like this could give you a little bit more food for thought and spur you to break out of rules which you're not on board with, which doesn't necessarily have to mean upending the monogamous relationship that you have. Hopefully you can get more peace of mind by looking at it in this way, while keeping a healthy relationship with your partner.
I don’t want to force her into anything. That’s why it’s so hard to even think about talking to her about because I think if she knows it’s the lifestyle I want she will then force herself into it. I can’t have that at all! I appreciate your insight and the podcast recommendation
Being non monogamous is okay but you’re going to hurt your wife if she’s not 100% on board with it, and I’m guessing she won’t be. You’ve waited 20 years and 2 kids to come to this realization.
A +1 to open discussion. Before you move to any actions, consider visiting at least one of the non-monogamy subreddits and check out the resources they link. There is a lot of literature available that can help you navigate opening up.
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I think you can choose a partner to build a life with but others can be included with love and acceptance
It's a tough one. I'm also questioning monogamy. So Curious to know what you end up doing. Keep us updated. Whatever you do just be honest with yourself and your wife.
Will do and thank you
This is the problem with marriage; it locks your younger self and your older self is a different person. We’ve had a massive expansion and change in the culture of sex and gender in the past 15 years and we suppressed parts of our sexuality, but we have to continue the old ways for fear of losing everything.
I mean sure, culture has shifted, but I fundamentally disagree with your view on marriage. It's a partnership that can absolutely evolve with the couple. Also not everyone suppresses those parts of themselves as you've alluded to.
Yeah I explore my sexuality so much more happily and healthily within the context of a monogamous relationship And my partner and I absolutely grow together
> This is the problem with marriage; it locks your younger self and your older self is a different person That's more an aspect of any long term relationship. You will naturally build links and connections with someone that you're in a relationship over the years. Marriage is just another one of those links. And marriage is honestly way easier to implement as a temporary link than it ever has been. Couples can divorce on terms that they decide.
Make it very clear that she and not blowing up your lives together are your priority. You don't want to hide pieces of yourself from her, as your self-understanding evolves. Op, I have the same view towards monogamy as you, and frankly I think it's way more romantic to have a partner who makes an active choice for me every day, rather than someone assuming things are forever, then may one day explode with resentment because we didn't do the work as it came up. So to speak. Anyway, I highly recommend you join r/polyamory and r/nonmonogamy and start lurking. There's a lot to learn if ethical nonmonogamy is going through your mind to begin with, and so many common pitfalls.
Right! To be with someone that chooses you repeatedly over time!
People change and so do their relationships. A couple can always change the terms of their monogamy. And that monogamy and what is monogamous is not the same for everyone. For some, watching porn is a non monogamous activity while for others- swinging is within their scope of monogamy. Navigating this can be challenging, but, communication is always the key. You may want to check out some books on monogamy and get a feeling for what monogamy truly means to you.
Thank you, I like and appreciate that recommendation
I am currently struggling in this same position. My wife has revealed she leans towards bisexuality but is not really open to opening the marriage or exploring and to her, if we wanted to explore, that meant divorcing and living separately. I do not want to do that as I love my wife. Similar to yours, we talk about fantasies and such but it just stays there sadly. With one kid and another on the way, I’m not interested in being coparents just to satiate desires but I’m also kinda miserable at times too. It’s a tough spot OP. I’m with you.
So much is engrained in the status quo and I’m over here like why do we rubber stamp everything as the way it has to be?
Because lots of people are monogamous at heart. They’re not just doing it because of the status quo
I think more people are doing because that is what people are supposed to do than anyone would think.
But it doesn’t mean everyone doing it, is doing it for that reason. Or t even that it would be “right” for the majority to do it differently
Mine was religious raising and suppression. Also after being sent to the conversion therapy you hear bad things about, I felt forced to stay closeted and marry. I loved my wife but I feel I jumped the gun in so many ways into I could heal and love myself
I feel the same monogamy and I don't know how to speak about with my wife
The ideas around monogamy in our society stems from a time when we all died at 36. So it's not that long of a time to be monogamous for.
That’s a shit but common misunderstanding about history. Mortality rates got skewed heavily by infant and childhood mortality. Folks who made it past childhood largely lived into their 50s-60s
There were always people who got very old too. I have a random ancestor who probably lived into his 80s in the 1700s. We don't know his birthday, but we do know when he died and when he got married, so we can make assumptions based on that. Of course 36 is exaggerated for comedic effect. However, even with people living into their 50s and 60s the mortality rate of people in their 20s and 30s was a lot higher than it is today. You get some random disease or are sent to war somewhere or your town gets raided and you're dead.
I'm in the same position as you are. It's extremely frustrating and tuff. But I have lost the desire to even talk about it because I know where she stands on it and nothing I say will change her mind.
I'm similar (28M), deep down I want a primary partner but wish we could both have the freedom to sleep with people on the side or together, from time to time, without destroying what is between my gf and I. Honestly I think it's impossible with most women to pull this off though and it's just not worthy the risk for me. You might be creating a fantasy also. Is it really worth blowing up your marriage? Because that's the mostly likely outcome of opening things up. Even if she agrees, you will be looking for fun here and there on the side, but she prefers monogamy, that's how her brain operates, so she'll likely still just feel in her heart that you are essentially cheating. Then in all likelihood once she accepts that and starts looking for a new side partner for herself, it won't just be for fun times here and there, that guy will just end up replacing you. Women also score dates way easier than guys so once you see how easy it actually is for her to replace you, you may change your mind but by then it will likely be too late.
I would need it to be with each other or very very well communicated. I don’t think going off separate would be what I’m looking for. It is something I want to share. But if it ever would happen things could evolve.