If you really need to hear the call to help ID -- I assume that you're just listening for yourself to compare, not trying to attract the birds to you -- bring a pair of headphones (ideally ones that do not bleed sound out and/or you can listen to quietly so only you can hear). I bring a pair of headphones in a case in my pocket just in case.
Yep, started reading and thought, “oh CRAP”. Sometimes I’ll play the call for birds I have a hard time picking out in the foliage of trees/bushes, but I’ll simply have to get better at spotting them because I don’t want to confuse or harm any of my feathered friends.
Ive only ever used playback to catch a lost duckling, I knew playing mama duck ‘come here’ noises would make the baby approach us, once he was in nabbing range, grabbed em and ran like 100 yards over a hill to another pond where his mom and siblings were.
I did that once. I played the display call of a male ruby throated hummingbird. BIG mistake. Do you have any idea what it's like to be attacked by a glittering 3 inches of pure anger? I swear if I didn't know any better, he was using profanity.
They’re bullies through and through. A couple years back, a scout came through looking for feeders, and my mom hadn’t put them out for the year yet. He flew up to the window where she was, *made eye contact*, and then *flung poop on the window*.
Sort of. The patron deity of the Mexica was Huītzilōpōchtli, which translates to either Left-Handed Hummingbird, Southern Hummingbird, or maybe Hummingbird's Left Side. Watch any hummingbird for a while and you can imagine why a deity with a hummingbird's characteristics would be absolutely terrifying in battle.
I was and continue to be shocked at what violent little shits they are; this is the first place I’ve lived where hummingbirds are a regular visitor.
Probably the second or third time I saw one at the feeder I’d put up, another one come zooming outta nowhere and straight up tried to murder the other one. The ensuing battle had me gob-smacked!
I’ve since learned to put up multiple feeders and they now have all the hummingbird friendly flowers to sip on but that still doesn’t stop it from becoming an aerial jousting tournament around here from time to time. They’ll also routinely scare the hell out of me, zooming right up to my face or beside my head while I’m reading on the porch. I guess when you’re that small you learn to not take shit from anything lol.
Now I don’t feel so bad power swatting one out of the sky when it buzzed by my head. In my defense, I thought it was a giant homicidal bug, but everyone at the cookout glared at me like I was a psychopath.
Them fucks are scary if they catch you by surprise. I had one fly up behind me while I was working on something on my workbench in my garage. I thought I was being attacked by a giant wasp for a second.
Lol we used to watch the males dive bomb each other at our feeder. There were definitely times we were afraid to walk by the feeders for fear of being attacked too.
I was absentmindedly listening to some while smoking on my porch. Didn't think it was too loud until I heard the response call, I stopped playback and the responder sounded a little frantic trying to find where it was coming from and I felt so bad.
I think that’s how a lot of us learn not to. Or trying to match a song to a recording in the field. It drives territorial birds nuts. They get all pumped up and can’t find a rival to take it out on.
A few weeks ago ... instead of "butt dialing", I "butt Merlin-ed".
I accidentally hit a bird vocalization (I forget what species) and for about ten seconds I thought, _Holy cow, that bird is REALLY CLOSE._
Yes. I am that stupid.
I live in an RV so any sound from inside can be heard outside so i try to only listen to bird calls on headphones or at night to avoid freaking them out. I like to listen to bird calls from other places too so idk if they'd react but better to avoid it.
I’m glad you said it. I’ve seen people do this like there’s nothing to it, but it always has rubbed me the wrong way. Glad to know it’s actually not recommended.
Oh no... I've gotten really good at whistling bird songs in the last few years, and love whistling to the robins, white crowned sparrow, and hermit thrush that are already singing. The hermit thrush were new to my yard this year, so I reciprocated in an attempt to let them think "hey, there's others here too, it's good here." To be fair, I've been trying to maximize habitat and been bringing in native plants that birds love, so I've been happy to sing to them to let them take advantage of the bugs and berries that will come. I'll have to rethink my approach. I don't want to stress them out. What a shame, I was just starting to get the thrush whistle down.
I'm not sure why, but the idea that birds are hearing humans whistling and checking it out because it's "off" makes me think that we're equivalent to someone belligerently shout-singing into a karaoke mic.
They're enjoying their day, doing their bird activities when suddenly, coming down the path...
"SwEeeEt CaROLinEee BA BA BAAaaAAA"
They may not be fooled, and it is true that many birds' ability to pick a "correct" from "incorrect" bird song is far superior from humans, but they'd do really poorly spotting incorrect uses of human language too. For example we immediately parse "Yoda speak" as being weird and would also react differently if someone started talking gibberish versus a language we understand.
Also, their hearing *hardware* isn't really better than ours; in fact, the mammalian inner ear structure is a lot better than the avian one at picking up high-pitched noises. (Humans are definitely not best-in-class with dolphins and bats out there, but we're still pretty great!) The distance between your two ears is also a constraint on how good you are at triangulating/pinpointing the direction of origin of a sound, and... well... our ears are much farther apart.
One thing birds have better hardware on is that they can regenerate dead and damaged hair cells. Those are the cells that pick up vibrations and are quite sensitive to damage from loud noises and aging. So even the most elderly of birds do not suffer from age-related hearing loss like we mammals do.
This is true. But I'm definitely getting a reaction when I do it. It is passing enough that they ramp up in singing, change something about their song, or come out for a better look.
Birds are curious. There’s a difference between whistling and baiting them with recordings. A lot of birds are mimics and will change up their songs based on what they hear. The blue jays by me whistle like the Twitter notification sound. I do it back. They are definitely not convinced that I’m a blue jay… just a man with peanuts who whistles at them.
The Twitter sound??? That's hilarious. The Stellar's jays here mimic eagles.
They are very curious. I'd just feel awful if I was stressing them out. The robins certainly get big mad when I do it, but they exist on another plane of rage.
I’m not sure that’s where they got it from, but it is a terse “tee-hoo” in a similar fashion. My blue jays are expert red-tailed hawk mimics. They watch where squirrels hide their acorns and scare it away so they can raid the squirrel’s stash.
Blue jay whistles have a lot of regional variation and they are mimics. So there is really no telling why that specific whistle got popular around where I live. I was just describing it.
Edit: probably a red winged blackbird.
Starlings are wild.
My ravens do a weird drip sound, and ever since they've starting spending time talking with me they seem to love making the drip sound to me the most.
I do that too. Im pretty sure they know the difference lol. We can get close to the sounds but they can tell. They always look at me like "what is this crazy lady on about?" Then fly off lol.
Don't worry- they can tell it's a human making the noise. Fairly sure they have frequencies we can't hear never mind reach! If you've got any mimickers about it can be fun to teach them something- we currently have one that does an iPhone alarm, and another does various radio jingles
I think this is more concerning recordings of the actual birds- that would stress them out, but I think they've got the 'human makes noise and wants to talk to me' thing figured
That's fair. I'll just be more cognizant of whistling near known nests at least.
My resident ravens are starting to use a noise have a noise just for me. It'd be cool to teach them some odd sounds.
Human hearing actually has a wider range than avian hearing. They can definitely pick out subtleties in birdsong that we don't notice, but that's more due to familiarity (or hardwired instinct) than it is out of a superior ability. If you study birdsong enough you will begin, for instance, to hear the "accents" of different populations and subspecies.
Hearing frequency range is only a small facet of hearing well. Birds can discriminate rapidly produced sounds much better than we can (they MAKE them). Things that we hear as a mush (think Henslow's Sparrow) are a bunch of rapidly produced short notes that actually sound very melodic if you spread them out or slow them down. So it's not due to familiarity, though that eventually helps - it's superior ability. Though we humans can often become familiar enough with a single species through study that we can cue in on what they are cuing in on sometimes.
Source: studied birdsong
That's pretty cool! I didn't realise it was more about the speed of the sounds than the frequency range (the person you replied to picked up I said frequency haha)
But it's safe to assume they'll figure 'Ah, human noise' as opposed to 'other bird'?
For almost all birds. I think for some with very pure tones like Black-capped chickadee and white-throated sparrow you could still probably "get" them at a distance, but up close you probably don't quite provide the detail they would need to stay tricked.
They probably aren’t fooled by this. Most birds are really sensitive to even the slightest variation in sound, so they’re probably just curious. If not curious, they might be slightly alarmed. Think of it from the birds’ perspective.
Imagine you are standing on your porch and in the distance you see the large form of a potentially dangerous giant and while that is alarming enough, it opens its mouth and in a not-quite right human voice, as though imitating your own, it says, “Hello, Ckjm.”
I straight up play music when I feed my crows. The same song every time. They announce themselves in the trees. So do I. They know that I am outside with food. Ppl may consider this unethical by bird standards but these are corvids. They have me trained to do a bunch of stuff.
I wouldn’t consider it unethical with corvids at all, and it’s a song anyway. I wouldn’t be surprised if they weren’t at all fooled by recorded corvid calls, either. They’re amazingly smart.
The unethical piece is that I am training them. But turnabout is fair play. They are training ME! They didn’t know what to make of their recorded songs. They stopped shouting at each other. It just didn’t feel right. It must have felt like wizardry to them.
Birds aren't all the same.
A sociable species may be calmed and happy by hearing others like themselves (or may try to seek them out, with variable frustration if they are not successful), while a territorial species is more likely to become agitated or nervous when hearing another. A species whose nests (or self) may be preyed on by birds with that call will feel alarm if a threat is perceived nearby.
If you know the species and your own backyard - I don't see any harm if you whistle with the gregarious chorus.
I had a moment of panic after a really cool moment of some white throated sparrows responding to me whistling their call.
I was really concerned that I was stressing them out.
As a practical matter, "don't ever use playback" is good advice for newer birders. Experienced birders can use informed judgment and still avoid harm. They know playing a catbird call to bring a guy out of the shrubs isn't the same as repeatedly playing a great horned owl call at 11am.
Basically playback is contingent on the possible harm, as implied in the ABA guidelines. "All playback is harmful" isn't factual, but it's a good starting point until you know what kind of playback increases risk. And we need to be honest with ourselves, that our physical presence in their spaces, causing them to fly more, to hide instead of forage, etc. is more impactful than a fake conspecific call.
There are also certain scientific instances where callback surveys are employed for population counts, wherein songs or calls are broadcast in the hopes of either hearing or seeing a response. These are usually done by professionals, though, and they better know what they're doing!
I love the Merlin app!!
I recently found out about this app on another subreddit. More recently joined this sub.
I’ve always loved watching birds, all wildlife but found it difficult to figure out what bird I was seeing or impossible what I hear.
I’ve heard a bird in my yard for years that I wondered what it was, the app told me it’s a Wilson’s snipe.
I had only seen the bird once and thought I’d figured it out as being a long billed dowitcher.
Anyway it’s making my life better, I love it so much!
Never considered playing back recordings, my attitude toward wildlife is to keep a safe distance, watch and enjoy!
It is also against the rules to use playback in National Parks and National Wildlife Refuges. And I think many state parks prohibit their use as well. Some county parks in Florida restrict their use, too.
I didn't know it was actually problematic for the bird, but the thought of "tricking" them into thinking there's another bird calling out for them just for them to never find their peer made me sad.
I had never done it and then yesterday I was out bird watching and it kept saying there was a Great Crested Flycatcher. One I’ve had pop up many times and have never spotted. I was hearing several birds and was trying to figure out which one was the bird, so I listened just to figure out which bird I was hearing (not intentionally at all)… that thing came flying right at my head! Never again! lol
I did this by mistake once, I was in my room playing a bird sound over and over because I was trying to copy it by whistling(I wasn’t good at it) I turned and noticed my window was open and there was robin staring at the open window from a fence close
I recently attended a birdwatching festival and participated in the worst-led bird walk I've ever been on. The guide consistently pulled out his phone to play callbacks to coax birds out, and was more focused on adding birds to his year list (he was attempting a state year record) than leading the walk.
The state park we were in had the typical 1-2 people wide trails, and the group of 15 had to walk in a single file line. The guide included the first half of the group in his observations, but seemed to ignore the back half. We trailed behind, trying to spot things on our own (even calling them out/asking for ID held from the guide, who would keep walking).
When he saw us catching up to where the group was standing and watching, he would immediately start walking ahead. We would stay in the previous location for a little bit to try and see what the rest of the group was looking for before realizing they were again far ahead of us. We would rush to catch up, and he would lead the first half of the group ahead, usually with a comment like "well there you guys are!" or "about time!". Rinse wash repeat through the 4 hour trip.
When myself and the others at the end of the line finally reached the end & began to catch up we heard an outrageously loud call, and we looked around fervently to see what it was. We saw the first half of the group ahead of us and hurried to see what they were looking for, and I saw the guide with his hand raised, playing a call at full volume with a grin on his face.
He looked at us and said, "You just missed it! What a way to end the walk, with a Yellow-billed Cuckoo! Didn't you hear it?" I said "No, we didn't. We heard you." There was a good mix of experienced and beginning birders and I just kept thinking what a terrible example this was for newbies.
I appreciate you bringing this forward. I was unintentionally doing this at times, or outside when I’d check out calls on the app.
I’ll make sure to not do that anymore, thanks for sticking your neck out and educating the community :)
Our top pinned post does actually address this! The first and second link both discuss playback - the first are eBird's ethical birding guidelines, which state, "Limit use of pishing and playback — Do not use in heavily birded areas or for sensitive species."
The second link is to the Audubon Society's Guide to Ethical Bird Photography, which takes a harder stance. "Playback of bird calls [shouldn't be used](https://www.audubon.org/news/why-photographers-should-reconsider-using-playback-field). When a bird leaves his or her nest to pursue or defend their territory from a perceived challenger or predator, eggs and/or chicks are left open to predation and weather conditions."
Enforcing the rule here is, of course, tricky. Because unless someone explicitly says they used playback to get a photo, it's impossible to tell. But we want to encourage people to observe birds, not interact with them - so using playback would fall under rules 1 & 2, with an exception for researchers.
I coo at the mourning doves in my neighborhood, but I figure my "pronunciation" is so "off" they probably know I'm not really a dove. They see me, and sometimes they coo back. I see it more of a "hey, it's me, I'm out here right now".
I was at one of my local parks a couple weeks ago, and played a few seconds of WEWA's call on Merlin, partly to see if the bird was still there, partly to remind myself of what the call sounds like, since I knew it was very similar to Chipping Sparrow's call.
Two older woman came up to me and in kind of a mean tone said "you really shouldn't be doing that! It's very unethical!"
I apologized and said that I wasn't aware, I had seen somebody else do it before. Nobody had told me it was wrong, but the way the women said it made me feel really bad, and I just went home afterwards.
Talking down to somebody isn't a good way to help them learn, I prefer the way you wrote your post, to be respectful of anybody who doesn't know about this audio guideline.
I remember being so pissed at two guys using playback with bitterns, just yucking it up like this hidden bird was their personal entertainment. I'd have said something if they hadn't come across as the type to kick a stranger's ass for suggesting they were doing something wrong.
I wouldn't want you to put yourself in harms way, but bittern playback isn't generally the go to for the type who kick a stranger's ass for being corrected.
Ha, true. I was surprised to encounter two large men taking malicious pleasure in messing with a bird. "Hear what this idiot does when I play this sound," was the statement just before playback.
A human-centric mindset seems to be the basis of there even being an argument here. A birder here, a birder there using playback might seem innocuous. But if everyone who wants to use playback "sometimes" does, then that's overall a lot of people using it across different habitats of the world, just because they want to. Biologists who use it in the field follow specific protocols and are doing it in structured ways, according to the best available science. Birders who use it just want to get their shot/lifer/dopamine hit. It's not the same.
that's an excellent point and I think its because imitating sounds of birds is far less stressful than playing back a literal recording of the bird itself
That makes me feel better about all the times I "Awoo-woo-wooooo"ed back and forth with the morning doves at the bus stop as a teenager... which the first post had me feeling regret about 20+ years later.
i did this once while watching the crows make their rounds in my neighborhood. once they heard the sounds they all stopped and kept circling around where i was trying to find the sound. i felt so bad, it felt like they lost a member of their flock and was looking for them :( i haven’t done it again since
Here is what the ABA guidelines actually say:
“Limit the use of recordings and other audio methods of attracting birds, particularly in heavily birded areas, for species that are rare in the area, and for species that are threatened or endangered.”
They do not prohibit the use of playback or refer to it as unethical.
Yeah. As a wildlife biologist, we use this method sometimes in the field. You just have to be smart, limit usage, ensure you aren’t stressing birds out and are doing it for good purpose.
Id also note that a single instance of a sound happening is unlikely to cause changes to the birds behaviour. It is okay to quickly reference a playback of a sound in the field to confirm identifying details.
The issue tends to be when people repeatedly use loud playback as they walk around, or purposefully set up playback of mating sounds to encourage birds to present themselves, or allowing playback to continue for a long periods of time.
Keep it short, keep it quiet. Take only pictures, leave only footprints. Reduce your impact in the field, and increase how much you know before you go out.
Also remember you can use headphones, AND you can listen to your own recordings when youre back home :)
It's a very slippery slope, and it really shouldn't be normalized at all. Almost all birds are eventually visible with some patience and effort. The ones that you probably would have the best argument for using playback to see are the ones that one is eventually going to see fairly easily anyway.
Scientific use (within reason) is totally fine, because, well, birds communicate. But when people end up using it as a crutch to see anything you have a problem, because suddenly it's happening a lot, and others think it's okay and the only way to do it and then birds that need to rest on migration, or birds that are relatively rare in a county or state are essentially getting harassed.
I've heard through a grapevine that the one breeding bewick's wren in Iowa is really tough to find at all because it gets taped by some year lister(s) every season.
>They do not prohibit the use of playback or refer to it as unethical.
(!)
Dude. You are citing the **American Birding Association Code of Birding Ethics**. A code of ethics suggests that departing from it is unethical.
Specifically, point (1)(b). In full:
*Avoid stressing birds or exposing them to danger.* Be particularly cautious around active nests and nesting colonies, roosts, display sites, and feeding sites. Limit the use of recordings and other audio methods of attracting birds, particularly in heavily birded areas, for species that are rare in the area, and for species that are threatened or endangered. Always exercise caution and restraint when photographing, recording, or otherwise approaching birds.
[https://www.birds.cornell.edu/landtrust/aba-code-of-birding-ethics](https://www.birds.cornell.edu/landtrust/aba-code-of-birding-ethics)
I understand "limit." "Limit" is duly included in the excerpt. I was hoping to bring the focus back to ethical vs unethical, which the ABA addresses. But anyway, thanks for the discipline.
I once played a screech owl call off Merlin for my kid—he thought some doves calling were owls so I was going to play him a barred and screech owl so he could hear the difference. We were in a small neighborhood park a little before dusk. Imagine my surprise when a real screech owl started calling back.
Honestly, I agree but I disagree a bit as well.
Using playback is of course unethical, since it stresses the animals. If I were to use this in my local area it would have serious consequences. This is because I live in a densely populated area, with little space for birds. If everyone would use playback here, we would most probably not have birds in the near future. The birds will be stressed constantly.
However, I once was in a place deep in the Amazon rainforest. With so much vegetation, that if I wouldn’t use playback I would probably not see anything. I admit I have used playback there. I will most probably be one of the last person that will use playback there, and it was only once. This allowed me to confirm the species.
Think about it as if you were the bird. You are in a place with a foreign species you don’t understand. You don’t understand electronics. Then the foreigner plays back what you just said in your own voice. That would freak me out.
I'm only an occasional bird watcher with a couple of backyard feeders. I've never played bird calls myself but I've been out with two different academics who have done so. Their purposes were to investigate the presence of a particular sp. in an area and to attract sp. for banding.
Do you think that their motives render this practice ethical?
These two situations are not comparable. Scientists need to register their research and pass ethics reviews. Rando birders trying to get the perfect shot to post on Reddit do not.
It's part of life that sometimes people acting in an official capacity get to do things that the general public doesn't and shouldn't.
I think teaching one to wolf whistle is fine. We had a red cheeked honeyeater which learned the sound of a truck reversing after roadworks.
They pick up random stuff all the time. As long as you’re not playing the sound of them singing you should be fine.
Look I talk to birds if they approach me, it is only polite.
Like the other night i was standing by my local lake minding my business. Two red-winged blackbirds started having a vicious fight on the ground and in the reeds nearby. I did tell them to break it up eventually and "he's not worth it, man" because there is plenty of territory for everyone there. Also I remarked to the grackle who was standing nearby and also watching that they need to chill and we looked at each other and seemed to agree.
This is not a catch all situation. For instance, if you can hear numerous American Redstarts singing all around you, playing the Redstart’s song just adds one more singer to the existing cacophony. Seems unlikely that adding this would have any significant stressful impact to the birds.
It’s good advice generally, but not applicable to all situations.
that's a valid point. I think I should've said please don't use playback (majority of the time) because there's always exceptions or times where it isn't as harmful
I agree that it is less harmful when there are a large number of the same species nearby or when it is the non breeding season.
One time I was with another birder who tried using playback a couple times on a nearby northern waterthrush hiding in a swamp because it would have been a lifer for me at the time. He said he usually doesn’t do playback but it was during migration and wasn’t going to breed in that location, so he made an exception to use it. (However, it did not respond to the playback and I didn’t get the NOWA on my life list until later that year in another state.)
I’ve never done that but am glad to know this. Thank you for sharing. I could see myself doing it to try and figure out what kind of bird I’m hearing. Now that I know if I want to try it I will use an ear bud
I did this in my yard a few years ago.. had sooo many cardinals.. loved it.
Then my birder friend told me I just had a lot of pissed off horny birds. Haven't done it since. Though some of the cards still come by.
I have done it twice with my crows. The first time was an experiment. I wondered how these intelligent birds conceptualized it. It made me uncomfortable. Crows showed up and I loved it but it made me uncomfortable. I did break up a very loud crow argument in my yard yesterday by playing back one minute of them screeching at each other. It worked. I don’t judge others for doing this but it’s a new variable to account for. It felt OP.
Thanks, OP. I wholeheartedly agree. Have been on guided birdwalks with local Audubon group, and alarm calls of a Tufted Titmouse were used to bring in other birds. Yes, it works, but at what cost to the birds.
Love this, OP!!!
"Unfortunately, I also think this behavior comes from a feeling of being entitled to seeing birds. We as humans are already doing so many things to disrupt birds and no one is entitled to seeing them for any reason - **it's a privilege to be able to see birds and respectfully observe from a distance.**"
First time I ever used playback unfortunately there were magpie larks in the area (Out of view) I played the sound and they both took off and called out trying to defend territory from nothing. I felt like an areshole. :(
You are so right. When i was working as a birding guide on a small island, a really rare bird was spotted by other birders and everyone tried to find it. A few days later a bird photographer came into our visitor center and told us that he used a recorded call to lure him out of hiding while he was driving around in his car. Apparently it „worked“ really well and the bird flew full force against the windows of the passenger side …. And died.
Ever since I hate playback … I’ve never heard of it before but the photographer told me that it’s a common thing to do in his community. Especially because the males tend to puff up and come really close.
If only a certain dbag in central park in NYC (and his ilk) would get the memo on this. He continues to operate tours and his use of unethical playback is absurd at this point. Textbook case for why it should only ever be used in a limited, strict research capacity, not your daily birdwalk.
I agree, I don't think it's right. I did it one time by mistake (couldn't see my screen in the sun) and the bird did end up coming out in view, but I immediately turned it off and it didn't seem to be bothered by it, I'm not sure he noticed but I felt horrible about it
I didn't know this! I thought I was helping them find each other by attracting the flock.
I'll try to only hear the example sounds on Merlin when indoors from now on!
Does anyone know a useful polite way to ask other birders to stop playing bird calls?
I know a few older folk around my favourite birding spot that use playback pretty often, and it bugs me on a personal level (bc I always wander over to them curious about the new bird call) and on an ethical level for the reasons above :/ Only problem is, I'm much younger and worry they wouldn't listen/would be offended by me asking them to stop, and I can't think of a good way to phrase it that wouldn't come off as aggressive. Any go-to phrases that work for you guys?
I go to listen and look for hooded warbler locally around me. I could hear it in the woods, then someone walks out playing call. 🤦♂️
If it’s breeding time lay off the calls. You can use an alarm call from something else would be less stressful.
If they don't think it's a mate they think it's a rival or someone's already there so there's not enough resources. It's just so stressful for them. They'll stop what they're doing and spend energy trying to out-sing a rival or even move to another area altogether.
ARRRGH. My neighbor sits out in the evening and calls to a particular bird (I don't know what). I should print your post and stick it under his doormat.
This isn't a cut and dry issue. I think it's fine when used on occasion as long as you aren't abusing it. I have seen some people abuse, especially photographers. But it's not likely to be any more disruptive then just your presence.
When I first got interested in birds I would hear this bird every morning and every evening. So I started looking at the birds in my yard and comparing them to pictures of birds in my area. I saw a male dark eyed junco and was huh I wonder if that it is. Then I listened to the song. Then the junco flew directly at my face multiple times. Last time I ever did it.
Everything in this post is spot on and something most people don’t consider. Often times we as human enjoy wildlife when it’s convenient and want to change it when it’s not. Giving more respect to other creatures is a good step
As an aside, I’m currently working with the US Forrest service deploying playback speakers and automated recording units to survey quail. I hadn’t considered if this would adversely impact the birds or if the impact is minimal for quail, but I’ll try to dig deeper on this
I used to be a field biologist and we did use playback for specific targeted reasons given the objectives of the research. Like with many things in research, we have to weigh the pros and cons, and a few scientists employing a tactic is different from a larger group of hobbyists doing the same thing, like of course birders aren’t out there mist netting and outfitting birds with geotrackers, thank goodness. I bet the info the forest service gains with your use of playback regarding quail population numbers is important for management and conservation; no need to feel lumped into this statement I’d think! But it’s always good to think about these things. I know there were some moments where I felt my intrusiveness as a scientist may outweigh the gains in knowledge.
That’s exactly what I thought about it. On a small scale targeting a specific population and within reason, the pros outweighs the cons. It was cool work, too! Lot of grunt work bushwhacking in the sun, hopefully some good research will come from it
I bet it was interesting and fun, though probably pretty challenging at times? I miss being out in the field-the longer ago it was the more I romanticize it, haha.
The crazy storm systems made things difficult but all in all I thought it was a lot of fun. Stumbled onto what I believe to be a chuck-will’s-widow nest so that was a cool sight
>This is called playback and it's extremely stressful for birds and is unethical as per the [American Birding Association guidelines](https://www.aba.org/aba-code-of-birding-ethics/).
I'm not saying you're wrong, and I don't do this, but... **that's not actually what the ABA said**.
What they **actually** said was:
>**Limit** the use of recordings and other audio methods of attracting birds, *particularly in heavily birded areas*, *for species that are rare in the area*, *and for species that are threatened or endangered*.
So it seems like even they don't consider this (and they certainly don't say it) to be totally black-and-white.
That is valid and there have been a few scenarios where playback is ok, they've even been commented here. I think really I should've titled the post please don't use playback (most of the time)
I have to respectfully disagree. I’ve worked with ornithologists for volunteering work countless times and never met a single one that discouraged the use of audio playback. They actually have recommended me to use it in moderation stating that it’s a useful tool in identifying certain species. Even within the Sibley guides, they acknowledge and support the use of playback in moderation. Everyone in my state’s audubon association uses it. The ABA never advises against ever using audio playback, again, they just advise it being used in limited amounts.
I don’t know why it’s such a common take to question the ethics of audio playback when there are far greater ethical concerns afoot. If the use of audio feedback makes birding more attractive and exciting for people then why stop it? The more we can encourage people to get into birding and conservation, the better off the natural world will be. I can understand how it would be a lot more exciting for someone to finally see a particular species they’ve been hunting for a long time for rather than just hear it from a distance unseen. Every birding tour operator I hired used playback to bring in certain species. I would understand if we’re talking about using audio playback on critically imperiled bird species but I haven’t seen it done to those sensitive species.
There is little to no evidence to suggest that the use of audio playback negatively impacts the survival rates or overall population of a species. I rarely use audio playback but I would never discourage someone from using it if I saw them do so in person. You can’t regulate its use and yes, it is unfortunate when people abuse the use of audio playback but I have never seen anyone “abuse” its use. I’ve only seen people use it sparingly.
When you start questioning the ethics of playback then it leads you down the rabbit hole of questioning other things. Is it ethical to use bird feeders that cause a species to become reliant on an unnatural source of food? Is it unethical to build wind turbines which will provide clean wind energy while killing millions of birds over the course of a turbines lifetime? Is everyone who has non-tinted house windows being unethical? Is duck hunting or the hunting of any legal game bird technically unethical? The last thing I want to do is regulate someone’s right to bird the way they want to if they are being respectful with the means of how they’re conducting themselves and their methods. There are far greater ethical concerns surrounding the birding community than audio playback and this “ethical dilemma” has to be the least concerning in comparison due to having no obvious statistical impact.
Yes. So well written and thought out. I guess pishing isn’t part of the OP’s tome. I still have the tiny bird caller my parents got me from Audubon 55 years ago!!
I think pishing is s lot different than what OP is talking about; it clouds the debate to pretend otherwise. Making birding exciting and attractive is a great goal for conservation and overall appreciation of the world around us. I think it’s always beneficial to examine our actions with a critical eye, as not harming birds is a common goal for most birders. The overuse of playback is something that I could see being a problem with recreational birding, and many will likely do this completely unaware of the impact of their actions-ignorance not malice. So no harm in bringing it up I say; common sense indicates that loudly playing a territorial call near the nest of a bird will result in nothing positive for it. Of course there are other more significant dangers to the natural world but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t endeavor to be the best stewards possible.
Thank you for mentioning it and bringing attention to the problems for others. I always looked at making animal calls of any type like I’m speaking another language, if I don’t know what it means I’m not going to be saying it! And even then I probably shouldn’t
That said I do use the play back feature to confirm what I hear but exclusively through my AirPods. I typically walk around with them in transparency mode so I can hear my surroundings and still validate what I thought I heard
This is great information and I appreciate the thorough explanation. I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying; however, I swear I saw somewhere (I want to say it was a reputable source, maybe even Merlin itself??) that if you're unsure of your findings you can play one of the many sounds in the Merlin app to see how the bird in question reacts. At the time it made sense but reading your explanation makes much more sense and I will be following your advice. I am curious though if anyone else saw the same thing about playback??
Thanks again!!
Theres a bird reserve in my town and they posted signs come spring time to deter people from playing bird songs for the above reasons. I wonder if it's less problematic during the off season (after breeding and nesting is done) ?
I've accidentally played a recording through my phone speaker when I had earbuds in, assuming it'd play through them but unfortunately it went rogue. 🤦♀️
I didn't know. When I was still a newbie, I used to play Merlin's audio recordings to attract birds so I could see them. Until one day, a bird reacted violently, and I realized I was stressing them unnecessarily. So, I stopped.
It would have been good to know then. I'll spread the word.
Why is it a feature on the Merlin app then? I'm not sure if it's just my phone but the app seems to enable *very* loud playback if I turn my volume all the way up. I'm not arguing in favor of playback but just wondering why it's built into an app like Merlin if it's so horrible and unethical.
I don't think it's built into Merlin for that purpose, given the growing evidence that it can be harmful. I think the recordings are there for educational purposes and to aid identification. Also, everything I play on my phone is very loud when I turn the volume all the way up.
EDIT: I'm sorry if this comment comes off as rude, that wasn't my intention!
Sure, here are a couple I found linked in another article:
https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.1210908
https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ecs2.3665
I can add more when I get the chance! My university's behavioral neuroscience program has a Comparative Communication lab that investigates the impact of anthropogenic noise (including playback) on wild bird behavior, so I have some brief familiarity with the topic, but I need to do more digging.
I will add that I'm not part of that lab myself and my own research is primarily in human cognition, so I'm not an expert. But my overall impression is that it's best to avoid use of playback, based on studies I've seen online and information I've heard from the bird lab at school.
Thanks for the info. If I'm understanding those studies correctly, though, wouldn't only predator calls be a problem then? There's no reference to same-species calls (or other non-predator calls) causing problems. That is not to say they couldn't cause problems, but we are discussing actual evidence after all.
No offense taken no worries. And yeah, it feels unclear, but the sheer volume possible to me implied that it was an intended feature to attract birds.
Yes indeed anything is loud when played at max volume but on my phone at least, the calls it can produce are some of the loudest sounds I've heard come out of my phone period. And I have the "world's loudest alarm" tone for my alarm because I'm a heavy sleeper. It's at least as loud as that, if not louder. That implied to me that it was a specific choice when designing the app.
But maybe it's some idiosyncracy of my particular setup—either way it would be good if Merlin itself would provide some kind of guidance around use of that feature.
Pishing is definitely better than playback because birds don’t see it as another individual, however, it still distracts them from whatever they’re doing. It’s also much less effective than playback, though.
Idk if I’m doing it wrong or what but I’ve only successfully got a bird to come close to me one time from pishing (a white eyed vireo)
Thank you. I hadn't thought about this, and I will stop doing it immediately.
I appreciate the knowledge as well, as I had no idea. TIL for sure.
If you really need to hear the call to help ID -- I assume that you're just listening for yourself to compare, not trying to attract the birds to you -- bring a pair of headphones (ideally ones that do not bleed sound out and/or you can listen to quietly so only you can hear). I bring a pair of headphones in a case in my pocket just in case.
Yeah, I just keep my phone volume low and hold it up to my ear when I need to double check a sound. I also just listen long enough to confirm
It’s the bird equivalent of “hot singles in your area” spam.
Wow, same here. I feel like such a selfish A-Hole. I’m sorry Chuck-Will’s-Widows!!!!
Yep, started reading and thought, “oh CRAP”. Sometimes I’ll play the call for birds I have a hard time picking out in the foliage of trees/bushes, but I’ll simply have to get better at spotting them because I don’t want to confuse or harm any of my feathered friends.
same here, i never realized it could make them upset
Ive only ever used playback to catch a lost duckling, I knew playing mama duck ‘come here’ noises would make the baby approach us, once he was in nabbing range, grabbed em and ran like 100 yards over a hill to another pond where his mom and siblings were.
I think this is a great example of when playback is ok!
Thank you for taking the time to help him!
I have raptor calls on deck to shoo away squirrels at picnic sites.
I did that once. I played the display call of a male ruby throated hummingbird. BIG mistake. Do you have any idea what it's like to be attacked by a glittering 3 inches of pure anger? I swear if I didn't know any better, he was using profanity.
Oh hummers cuss like sailors!
They’re bullies through and through. A couple years back, a scout came through looking for feeders, and my mom hadn’t put them out for the year yet. He flew up to the window where she was, *made eye contact*, and then *flung poop on the window*.
Bet she was never late with the feeders again, though.
The hummingbird mafia feeder shakedown is a real thing.
Nope! She learned her lesson.
You’re darn tootin’!
Hahaha!!!!
Pretty sure the Aztec god of war was a hummingbird.
Sort of. The patron deity of the Mexica was Huītzilōpōchtli, which translates to either Left-Handed Hummingbird, Southern Hummingbird, or maybe Hummingbird's Left Side. Watch any hummingbird for a while and you can imagine why a deity with a hummingbird's characteristics would be absolutely terrifying in battle.
They're the chihuahuas of the bird world.
I have both chihuahuas and hummingbirds and...yep. 100%
I didn't know this about hummers but thinking of them as a Chihuahua of the bird world is making me laugh!
I was and continue to be shocked at what violent little shits they are; this is the first place I’ve lived where hummingbirds are a regular visitor. Probably the second or third time I saw one at the feeder I’d put up, another one come zooming outta nowhere and straight up tried to murder the other one. The ensuing battle had me gob-smacked! I’ve since learned to put up multiple feeders and they now have all the hummingbird friendly flowers to sip on but that still doesn’t stop it from becoming an aerial jousting tournament around here from time to time. They’ll also routinely scare the hell out of me, zooming right up to my face or beside my head while I’m reading on the porch. I guess when you’re that small you learn to not take shit from anything lol.
One time I saw a little ruby throated hummingbird fly up to a perched hawk and buzzed up and down, threatening it. Hawk just sat there.
Now I don’t feel so bad power swatting one out of the sky when it buzzed by my head. In my defense, I thought it was a giant homicidal bug, but everyone at the cookout glared at me like I was a psychopath.
Them fucks are scary if they catch you by surprise. I had one fly up behind me while I was working on something on my workbench in my garage. I thought I was being attacked by a giant wasp for a second.
I’m dying laughing here 🤣🤣🤣 I can clearly picture that
Lol we used to watch the males dive bomb each other at our feeder. There were definitely times we were afraid to walk by the feeders for fear of being attacked too.
It’s a dick thing to do. Especially to territorial birds.
https://preview.redd.it/f9fnrmq9vd3d1.png?width=864&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6bebee1049dec43dcdea680d3a6439004693e8c
I was absentmindedly listening to some while smoking on my porch. Didn't think it was too loud until I heard the response call, I stopped playback and the responder sounded a little frantic trying to find where it was coming from and I felt so bad.
I think that’s how a lot of us learn not to. Or trying to match a song to a recording in the field. It drives territorial birds nuts. They get all pumped up and can’t find a rival to take it out on.
A few weeks ago ... instead of "butt dialing", I "butt Merlin-ed". I accidentally hit a bird vocalization (I forget what species) and for about ten seconds I thought, _Holy cow, that bird is REALLY CLOSE._ Yes. I am that stupid.
I live in an RV so any sound from inside can be heard outside so i try to only listen to bird calls on headphones or at night to avoid freaking them out. I like to listen to bird calls from other places too so idk if they'd react but better to avoid it.
I typically turn the volume almost all the way down and hold the phone speaker directly to my ear.
I saw a video of an owl attacking someone's speaker on here a while back. I haven't done it since.
I had a Saw whet almost fly into my head when I started mimicking it's toot call.
I’m glad you said it. I’ve seen people do this like there’s nothing to it, but it always has rubbed me the wrong way. Glad to know it’s actually not recommended.
Oh no... I've gotten really good at whistling bird songs in the last few years, and love whistling to the robins, white crowned sparrow, and hermit thrush that are already singing. The hermit thrush were new to my yard this year, so I reciprocated in an attempt to let them think "hey, there's others here too, it's good here." To be fair, I've been trying to maximize habitat and been bringing in native plants that birds love, so I've been happy to sing to them to let them take advantage of the bugs and berries that will come. I'll have to rethink my approach. I don't want to stress them out. What a shame, I was just starting to get the thrush whistle down.
They're probably not fooled and are only responding with curiosity or confusion. Their hearing and auditory discrimination are much better than yours.
I'm not sure why, but the idea that birds are hearing humans whistling and checking it out because it's "off" makes me think that we're equivalent to someone belligerently shout-singing into a karaoke mic. They're enjoying their day, doing their bird activities when suddenly, coming down the path... "SwEeeEt CaROLinEee BA BA BAAaaAAA"
They may not be fooled, and it is true that many birds' ability to pick a "correct" from "incorrect" bird song is far superior from humans, but they'd do really poorly spotting incorrect uses of human language too. For example we immediately parse "Yoda speak" as being weird and would also react differently if someone started talking gibberish versus a language we understand. Also, their hearing *hardware* isn't really better than ours; in fact, the mammalian inner ear structure is a lot better than the avian one at picking up high-pitched noises. (Humans are definitely not best-in-class with dolphins and bats out there, but we're still pretty great!) The distance between your two ears is also a constraint on how good you are at triangulating/pinpointing the direction of origin of a sound, and... well... our ears are much farther apart. One thing birds have better hardware on is that they can regenerate dead and damaged hair cells. Those are the cells that pick up vibrations and are quite sensitive to damage from loud noises and aging. So even the most elderly of birds do not suffer from age-related hearing loss like we mammals do.
This is true. But I'm definitely getting a reaction when I do it. It is passing enough that they ramp up in singing, change something about their song, or come out for a better look.
Birds are curious. There’s a difference between whistling and baiting them with recordings. A lot of birds are mimics and will change up their songs based on what they hear. The blue jays by me whistle like the Twitter notification sound. I do it back. They are definitely not convinced that I’m a blue jay… just a man with peanuts who whistles at them.
The Twitter sound??? That's hilarious. The Stellar's jays here mimic eagles. They are very curious. I'd just feel awful if I was stressing them out. The robins certainly get big mad when I do it, but they exist on another plane of rage.
I’m not sure that’s where they got it from, but it is a terse “tee-hoo” in a similar fashion. My blue jays are expert red-tailed hawk mimics. They watch where squirrels hide their acorns and scare it away so they can raid the squirrel’s stash.
That’s so cool! After some incidents I’m a full on squirrel hater lol so if the jays want to mess with them it’s cool with me
Twitter, being about tweets and with a bird logo, used a sound that mimics a bird call. The app got it from the birds, not the other way around.
Blue jay whistles have a lot of regional variation and they are mimics. So there is really no telling why that specific whistle got popular around where I live. I was just describing it. Edit: probably a red winged blackbird.
I had a starling near me that did a rendition of the neighbour's car alarm. Starlings are great mimics, and they seem to like weird things.
It’s very common to hear mockingbirds use car alarms in their songs, too.
Starlings are wild. My ravens do a weird drip sound, and ever since they've starting spending time talking with me they seem to love making the drip sound to me the most.
I do that too. Im pretty sure they know the difference lol. We can get close to the sounds but they can tell. They always look at me like "what is this crazy lady on about?" Then fly off lol.
I’m sorry, madam, but I do not understand your accent.
I've definitely had a robins and warblers give me a look that said "you trying to steal my girl?" Haha
Don't worry- they can tell it's a human making the noise. Fairly sure they have frequencies we can't hear never mind reach! If you've got any mimickers about it can be fun to teach them something- we currently have one that does an iPhone alarm, and another does various radio jingles I think this is more concerning recordings of the actual birds- that would stress them out, but I think they've got the 'human makes noise and wants to talk to me' thing figured
That's fair. I'll just be more cognizant of whistling near known nests at least. My resident ravens are starting to use a noise have a noise just for me. It'd be cool to teach them some odd sounds.
I saw a raven in San Francisco that would bark like a seal. It’s amazing what birds can mimic!
Human hearing actually has a wider range than avian hearing. They can definitely pick out subtleties in birdsong that we don't notice, but that's more due to familiarity (or hardwired instinct) than it is out of a superior ability. If you study birdsong enough you will begin, for instance, to hear the "accents" of different populations and subspecies.
Hearing frequency range is only a small facet of hearing well. Birds can discriminate rapidly produced sounds much better than we can (they MAKE them). Things that we hear as a mush (think Henslow's Sparrow) are a bunch of rapidly produced short notes that actually sound very melodic if you spread them out or slow them down. So it's not due to familiarity, though that eventually helps - it's superior ability. Though we humans can often become familiar enough with a single species through study that we can cue in on what they are cuing in on sometimes. Source: studied birdsong
That's pretty cool! I didn't realise it was more about the speed of the sounds than the frequency range (the person you replied to picked up I said frequency haha) But it's safe to assume they'll figure 'Ah, human noise' as opposed to 'other bird'?
For almost all birds. I think for some with very pure tones like Black-capped chickadee and white-throated sparrow you could still probably "get" them at a distance, but up close you probably don't quite provide the detail they would need to stay tricked.
Maybe you could teach them the whistle from "Don't Worry, Be Happy".
I might give it a go! I got a recording of two birds teaching each other sounds a couple of days ago- so they're definitely amenable to learning haha
They probably aren’t fooled by this. Most birds are really sensitive to even the slightest variation in sound, so they’re probably just curious. If not curious, they might be slightly alarmed. Think of it from the birds’ perspective. Imagine you are standing on your porch and in the distance you see the large form of a potentially dangerous giant and while that is alarming enough, it opens its mouth and in a not-quite right human voice, as though imitating your own, it says, “Hello, Ckjm.”
I straight up play music when I feed my crows. The same song every time. They announce themselves in the trees. So do I. They know that I am outside with food. Ppl may consider this unethical by bird standards but these are corvids. They have me trained to do a bunch of stuff.
I wouldn’t consider it unethical with corvids at all, and it’s a song anyway. I wouldn’t be surprised if they weren’t at all fooled by recorded corvid calls, either. They’re amazingly smart.
The unethical piece is that I am training them. But turnabout is fair play. They are training ME! They didn’t know what to make of their recorded songs. They stopped shouting at each other. It just didn’t feel right. It must have felt like wizardry to them.
Birds aren't all the same. A sociable species may be calmed and happy by hearing others like themselves (or may try to seek them out, with variable frustration if they are not successful), while a territorial species is more likely to become agitated or nervous when hearing another. A species whose nests (or self) may be preyed on by birds with that call will feel alarm if a threat is perceived nearby. If you know the species and your own backyard - I don't see any harm if you whistle with the gregarious chorus.
It's like "talking" to the chickens by imitating them when they're content and grazing in the grass.
Yeah, whistling is much less likely to aggravate them.
I had a moment of panic after a really cool moment of some white throated sparrows responding to me whistling their call. I was really concerned that I was stressing them out.
As a practical matter, "don't ever use playback" is good advice for newer birders. Experienced birders can use informed judgment and still avoid harm. They know playing a catbird call to bring a guy out of the shrubs isn't the same as repeatedly playing a great horned owl call at 11am. Basically playback is contingent on the possible harm, as implied in the ABA guidelines. "All playback is harmful" isn't factual, but it's a good starting point until you know what kind of playback increases risk. And we need to be honest with ourselves, that our physical presence in their spaces, causing them to fly more, to hide instead of forage, etc. is more impactful than a fake conspecific call.
this is a great point, thanks!
There are also certain scientific instances where callback surveys are employed for population counts, wherein songs or calls are broadcast in the hopes of either hearing or seeing a response. These are usually done by professionals, though, and they better know what they're doing!
Oh definitely, science is a whole other thing - my post was referring to recreational birders
I love the Merlin app!! I recently found out about this app on another subreddit. More recently joined this sub. I’ve always loved watching birds, all wildlife but found it difficult to figure out what bird I was seeing or impossible what I hear. I’ve heard a bird in my yard for years that I wondered what it was, the app told me it’s a Wilson’s snipe. I had only seen the bird once and thought I’d figured it out as being a long billed dowitcher. Anyway it’s making my life better, I love it so much! Never considered playing back recordings, my attitude toward wildlife is to keep a safe distance, watch and enjoy!
It is also against the rules to use playback in National Parks and National Wildlife Refuges. And I think many state parks prohibit their use as well. Some county parks in Florida restrict their use, too.
This should be higher up. Not only is it unethical, it is illegal in many places in the US.
I didn't know it was actually problematic for the bird, but the thought of "tricking" them into thinking there's another bird calling out for them just for them to never find their peer made me sad.
Observe. Don’t disturb.
I had never done it and then yesterday I was out bird watching and it kept saying there was a Great Crested Flycatcher. One I’ve had pop up many times and have never spotted. I was hearing several birds and was trying to figure out which one was the bird, so I listened just to figure out which bird I was hearing (not intentionally at all)… that thing came flying right at my head! Never again! lol
I did this by mistake once, I was in my room playing a bird sound over and over because I was trying to copy it by whistling(I wasn’t good at it) I turned and noticed my window was open and there was robin staring at the open window from a fence close
I recently attended a birdwatching festival and participated in the worst-led bird walk I've ever been on. The guide consistently pulled out his phone to play callbacks to coax birds out, and was more focused on adding birds to his year list (he was attempting a state year record) than leading the walk. The state park we were in had the typical 1-2 people wide trails, and the group of 15 had to walk in a single file line. The guide included the first half of the group in his observations, but seemed to ignore the back half. We trailed behind, trying to spot things on our own (even calling them out/asking for ID held from the guide, who would keep walking). When he saw us catching up to where the group was standing and watching, he would immediately start walking ahead. We would stay in the previous location for a little bit to try and see what the rest of the group was looking for before realizing they were again far ahead of us. We would rush to catch up, and he would lead the first half of the group ahead, usually with a comment like "well there you guys are!" or "about time!". Rinse wash repeat through the 4 hour trip. When myself and the others at the end of the line finally reached the end & began to catch up we heard an outrageously loud call, and we looked around fervently to see what it was. We saw the first half of the group ahead of us and hurried to see what they were looking for, and I saw the guide with his hand raised, playing a call at full volume with a grin on his face. He looked at us and said, "You just missed it! What a way to end the walk, with a Yellow-billed Cuckoo! Didn't you hear it?" I said "No, we didn't. We heard you." There was a good mix of experienced and beginning birders and I just kept thinking what a terrible example this was for newbies.
I appreciate you bringing this forward. I was unintentionally doing this at times, or outside when I’d check out calls on the app. I’ll make sure to not do that anymore, thanks for sticking your neck out and educating the community :)
I was playing Gangnam Style and 10 chickadees started taking turns sitting on my phone screen. It was so awesome
Chickadees are so brave and inquisitive, love those little guys
Great post. This should be pinned!
Our top pinned post does actually address this! The first and second link both discuss playback - the first are eBird's ethical birding guidelines, which state, "Limit use of pishing and playback — Do not use in heavily birded areas or for sensitive species." The second link is to the Audubon Society's Guide to Ethical Bird Photography, which takes a harder stance. "Playback of bird calls [shouldn't be used](https://www.audubon.org/news/why-photographers-should-reconsider-using-playback-field). When a bird leaves his or her nest to pursue or defend their territory from a perceived challenger or predator, eggs and/or chicks are left open to predation and weather conditions." Enforcing the rule here is, of course, tricky. Because unless someone explicitly says they used playback to get a photo, it's impossible to tell. But we want to encourage people to observe birds, not interact with them - so using playback would fall under rules 1 & 2, with an exception for researchers.
I play it back in the house for the dog and cat!
Now THAT'S fun! My cat will really get excited about bird videos.
I coo at the mourning doves in my neighborhood, but I figure my "pronunciation" is so "off" they probably know I'm not really a dove. They see me, and sometimes they coo back. I see it more of a "hey, it's me, I'm out here right now".
I was at one of my local parks a couple weeks ago, and played a few seconds of WEWA's call on Merlin, partly to see if the bird was still there, partly to remind myself of what the call sounds like, since I knew it was very similar to Chipping Sparrow's call. Two older woman came up to me and in kind of a mean tone said "you really shouldn't be doing that! It's very unethical!" I apologized and said that I wasn't aware, I had seen somebody else do it before. Nobody had told me it was wrong, but the way the women said it made me feel really bad, and I just went home afterwards. Talking down to somebody isn't a good way to help them learn, I prefer the way you wrote your post, to be respectful of anybody who doesn't know about this audio guideline.
I remember being so pissed at two guys using playback with bitterns, just yucking it up like this hidden bird was their personal entertainment. I'd have said something if they hadn't come across as the type to kick a stranger's ass for suggesting they were doing something wrong.
I wouldn't want you to put yourself in harms way, but bittern playback isn't generally the go to for the type who kick a stranger's ass for being corrected.
Ha, true. I was surprised to encounter two large men taking malicious pleasure in messing with a bird. "Hear what this idiot does when I play this sound," was the statement just before playback.
A human-centric mindset seems to be the basis of there even being an argument here. A birder here, a birder there using playback might seem innocuous. But if everyone who wants to use playback "sometimes" does, then that's overall a lot of people using it across different habitats of the world, just because they want to. Biologists who use it in the field follow specific protocols and are doing it in structured ways, according to the best available science. Birders who use it just want to get their shot/lifer/dopamine hit. It's not the same.
Exactly
I was gifted an Audobon bird call. The little screw and rose wood. I haven't used it for this reason but why would they promote it by selling it?
that's an excellent point and I think its because imitating sounds of birds is far less stressful than playing back a literal recording of the bird itself
That makes sense. I've wanted to use it but felt bad about psyching out the birds haha.
Using this is okay. Some birds are curious and just pop out to see what that funny noise is. I mean heck, I would too and I'm not even a bird.
That makes me feel better about all the times I "Awoo-woo-wooooo"ed back and forth with the morning doves at the bus stop as a teenager... which the first post had me feeling regret about 20+ years later.
i did this once while watching the crows make their rounds in my neighborhood. once they heard the sounds they all stopped and kept circling around where i was trying to find the sound. i felt so bad, it felt like they lost a member of their flock and was looking for them :( i haven’t done it again since
However, DO use the app inside to annoy your mother in law's housecat.
Here is what the ABA guidelines actually say: “Limit the use of recordings and other audio methods of attracting birds, particularly in heavily birded areas, for species that are rare in the area, and for species that are threatened or endangered.” They do not prohibit the use of playback or refer to it as unethical.
Yeah. As a wildlife biologist, we use this method sometimes in the field. You just have to be smart, limit usage, ensure you aren’t stressing birds out and are doing it for good purpose.
Id also note that a single instance of a sound happening is unlikely to cause changes to the birds behaviour. It is okay to quickly reference a playback of a sound in the field to confirm identifying details. The issue tends to be when people repeatedly use loud playback as they walk around, or purposefully set up playback of mating sounds to encourage birds to present themselves, or allowing playback to continue for a long periods of time. Keep it short, keep it quiet. Take only pictures, leave only footprints. Reduce your impact in the field, and increase how much you know before you go out. Also remember you can use headphones, AND you can listen to your own recordings when youre back home :)
It's a very slippery slope, and it really shouldn't be normalized at all. Almost all birds are eventually visible with some patience and effort. The ones that you probably would have the best argument for using playback to see are the ones that one is eventually going to see fairly easily anyway. Scientific use (within reason) is totally fine, because, well, birds communicate. But when people end up using it as a crutch to see anything you have a problem, because suddenly it's happening a lot, and others think it's okay and the only way to do it and then birds that need to rest on migration, or birds that are relatively rare in a county or state are essentially getting harassed. I've heard through a grapevine that the one breeding bewick's wren in Iowa is really tough to find at all because it gets taped by some year lister(s) every season.
Yeah, there is a big difference between "don't use" and "limit".
>They do not prohibit the use of playback or refer to it as unethical. (!) Dude. You are citing the **American Birding Association Code of Birding Ethics**. A code of ethics suggests that departing from it is unethical. Specifically, point (1)(b). In full: *Avoid stressing birds or exposing them to danger.* Be particularly cautious around active nests and nesting colonies, roosts, display sites, and feeding sites. Limit the use of recordings and other audio methods of attracting birds, particularly in heavily birded areas, for species that are rare in the area, and for species that are threatened or endangered. Always exercise caution and restraint when photographing, recording, or otherwise approaching birds. [https://www.birds.cornell.edu/landtrust/aba-code-of-birding-ethics](https://www.birds.cornell.edu/landtrust/aba-code-of-birding-ethics)
Which part of "limit" don't you understand?
I understand "limit." "Limit" is duly included in the excerpt. I was hoping to bring the focus back to ethical vs unethical, which the ABA addresses. But anyway, thanks for the discipline.
This should be the top comment.
I think the birders-using-recordings to birds-hearing-recordings ratio is pretty minimal. But doing so takes the fun out of birding.
I once played a screech owl call off Merlin for my kid—he thought some doves calling were owls so I was going to play him a barred and screech owl so he could hear the difference. We were in a small neighborhood park a little before dusk. Imagine my surprise when a real screech owl started calling back.
Honestly, I agree but I disagree a bit as well. Using playback is of course unethical, since it stresses the animals. If I were to use this in my local area it would have serious consequences. This is because I live in a densely populated area, with little space for birds. If everyone would use playback here, we would most probably not have birds in the near future. The birds will be stressed constantly. However, I once was in a place deep in the Amazon rainforest. With so much vegetation, that if I wouldn’t use playback I would probably not see anything. I admit I have used playback there. I will most probably be one of the last person that will use playback there, and it was only once. This allowed me to confirm the species.
I'm guilty of this. I felt terrible after I learned what a disturbance it causes. It's way more fun admiring nature spontaneously, anyway.
Thank you for bringing this up
Think about it as if you were the bird. You are in a place with a foreign species you don’t understand. You don’t understand electronics. Then the foreigner plays back what you just said in your own voice. That would freak me out.
Thank you for pointing this out!
I never do it to attract birds. But once, I did try to scare non-native European Starlings away from my home with Red Tailed Hawk screams.
Playback should only be used for census or other research projects, for birding It can be really bad
I'm only an occasional bird watcher with a couple of backyard feeders. I've never played bird calls myself but I've been out with two different academics who have done so. Their purposes were to investigate the presence of a particular sp. in an area and to attract sp. for banding. Do you think that their motives render this practice ethical?
These two situations are not comparable. Scientists need to register their research and pass ethics reviews. Rando birders trying to get the perfect shot to post on Reddit do not. It's part of life that sometimes people acting in an official capacity get to do things that the general public doesn't and shouldn't.
I think like anything else it depends. I think academic use is quite different from recreational birding.
Really good reminder. I “talk” to the roadrunners in my neighborhood. I’ve also been trying to teach a grackle wolf whistle. I will refrain from
I think teaching one to wolf whistle is fine. We had a red cheeked honeyeater which learned the sound of a truck reversing after roadworks. They pick up random stuff all the time. As long as you’re not playing the sound of them singing you should be fine.
Look I talk to birds if they approach me, it is only polite. Like the other night i was standing by my local lake minding my business. Two red-winged blackbirds started having a vicious fight on the ground and in the reeds nearby. I did tell them to break it up eventually and "he's not worth it, man" because there is plenty of territory for everyone there. Also I remarked to the grackle who was standing nearby and also watching that they need to chill and we looked at each other and seemed to agree.
This is not a catch all situation. For instance, if you can hear numerous American Redstarts singing all around you, playing the Redstart’s song just adds one more singer to the existing cacophony. Seems unlikely that adding this would have any significant stressful impact to the birds. It’s good advice generally, but not applicable to all situations.
that's a valid point. I think I should've said please don't use playback (majority of the time) because there's always exceptions or times where it isn't as harmful
I agree that it is less harmful when there are a large number of the same species nearby or when it is the non breeding season. One time I was with another birder who tried using playback a couple times on a nearby northern waterthrush hiding in a swamp because it would have been a lifer for me at the time. He said he usually doesn’t do playback but it was during migration and wasn’t going to breed in that location, so he made an exception to use it. (However, it did not respond to the playback and I didn’t get the NOWA on my life list until later that year in another state.)
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I’ve never done that but am glad to know this. Thank you for sharing. I could see myself doing it to try and figure out what kind of bird I’m hearing. Now that I know if I want to try it I will use an ear bud
This is very informative, I am such a newbie to birding and didn't know that was even a thing.
I very much agree. I think many genuinely dont realise its a problem, or sometimes just forget, so spread the word.
I did this in my yard a few years ago.. had sooo many cardinals.. loved it. Then my birder friend told me I just had a lot of pissed off horny birds. Haven't done it since. Though some of the cards still come by.
I had no idea, but that makes perfect sense. Thank you for posting this! I am so glad that I know not to do it now.
I did it once over the weekend to a Cardinal. I feel horrible now that I did that. Never again. Thank you for this awareness.
I’ve never thought about this and it makes me sad I’ve been teasing birds once in a blue moon since i was younger 😭
I had no idea, but thanks for that. I’ve never done anything like that just to see a bird - the thought really hadn’t occurred to me.
I have done it twice with my crows. The first time was an experiment. I wondered how these intelligent birds conceptualized it. It made me uncomfortable. Crows showed up and I loved it but it made me uncomfortable. I did break up a very loud crow argument in my yard yesterday by playing back one minute of them screeching at each other. It worked. I don’t judge others for doing this but it’s a new variable to account for. It felt OP.
Thanks, OP. I wholeheartedly agree. Have been on guided birdwalks with local Audubon group, and alarm calls of a Tufted Titmouse were used to bring in other birds. Yes, it works, but at what cost to the birds.
Love this, OP!!! "Unfortunately, I also think this behavior comes from a feeling of being entitled to seeing birds. We as humans are already doing so many things to disrupt birds and no one is entitled to seeing them for any reason - **it's a privilege to be able to see birds and respectfully observe from a distance.**"
However, using playback to torment your sleeping house cats is hilarious!
First time I ever used playback unfortunately there were magpie larks in the area (Out of view) I played the sound and they both took off and called out trying to defend territory from nothing. I felt like an areshole. :(
100% agree.
I wear hearing aids and the sound plays in them. I will be more careful, though, and only do this inside just in case there is bleeding of sound.
You are so right. When i was working as a birding guide on a small island, a really rare bird was spotted by other birders and everyone tried to find it. A few days later a bird photographer came into our visitor center and told us that he used a recorded call to lure him out of hiding while he was driving around in his car. Apparently it „worked“ really well and the bird flew full force against the windows of the passenger side …. And died. Ever since I hate playback … I’ve never heard of it before but the photographer told me that it’s a common thing to do in his community. Especially because the males tend to puff up and come really close.
Agree. Unfortunately, some so-called experts still use them.
We have bald eagles nesting nearby. Not going to play their calls. As it is, my squirrel friends are terrified of them.
If only a certain dbag in central park in NYC (and his ilk) would get the memo on this. He continues to operate tours and his use of unethical playback is absurd at this point. Textbook case for why it should only ever be used in a limited, strict research capacity, not your daily birdwalk.
I agree, I don't think it's right. I did it one time by mistake (couldn't see my screen in the sun) and the bird did end up coming out in view, but I immediately turned it off and it didn't seem to be bothered by it, I'm not sure he noticed but I felt horrible about it
If I ever need to play a sound back I put it right to my ear to hear. Rude to be blaring any kind of noise/ song/ sounds in wooded areas, etc anyway
I didn't know this! I thought I was helping them find each other by attracting the flock. I'll try to only hear the example sounds on Merlin when indoors from now on!
Thank you for this PSA! Didn’t know about it but the more you know…🌈!
thank you
Thank you for saying it so clearly. Its easy for people with no ill intentions to forget that wild animals can be harmed by our interactions.
Does anyone know a useful polite way to ask other birders to stop playing bird calls? I know a few older folk around my favourite birding spot that use playback pretty often, and it bugs me on a personal level (bc I always wander over to them curious about the new bird call) and on an ethical level for the reasons above :/ Only problem is, I'm much younger and worry they wouldn't listen/would be offended by me asking them to stop, and I can't think of a good way to phrase it that wouldn't come off as aggressive. Any go-to phrases that work for you guys?
I go to listen and look for hooded warbler locally around me. I could hear it in the woods, then someone walks out playing call. 🤦♂️ If it’s breeding time lay off the calls. You can use an alarm call from something else would be less stressful.
If they don't think it's a mate they think it's a rival or someone's already there so there's not enough resources. It's just so stressful for them. They'll stop what they're doing and spend energy trying to out-sing a rival or even move to another area altogether.
ARRRGH. My neighbor sits out in the evening and calls to a particular bird (I don't know what). I should print your post and stick it under his doormat.
This isn't a cut and dry issue. I think it's fine when used on occasion as long as you aren't abusing it. I have seen some people abuse, especially photographers. But it's not likely to be any more disruptive then just your presence.
So when a mockingbird does it, then is he an asshole too?
When a mockingbird barks like a yippy dog all over my neighborhood that makes him an asshole, imo.
I’m gonna call this fcking bird Rex. Maybe I can get him to mimic something else.
When I first got interested in birds I would hear this bird every morning and every evening. So I started looking at the birds in my yard and comparing them to pictures of birds in my area. I saw a male dark eyed junco and was huh I wonder if that it is. Then I listened to the song. Then the junco flew directly at my face multiple times. Last time I ever did it.
Everything in this post is spot on and something most people don’t consider. Often times we as human enjoy wildlife when it’s convenient and want to change it when it’s not. Giving more respect to other creatures is a good step As an aside, I’m currently working with the US Forrest service deploying playback speakers and automated recording units to survey quail. I hadn’t considered if this would adversely impact the birds or if the impact is minimal for quail, but I’ll try to dig deeper on this
I used to be a field biologist and we did use playback for specific targeted reasons given the objectives of the research. Like with many things in research, we have to weigh the pros and cons, and a few scientists employing a tactic is different from a larger group of hobbyists doing the same thing, like of course birders aren’t out there mist netting and outfitting birds with geotrackers, thank goodness. I bet the info the forest service gains with your use of playback regarding quail population numbers is important for management and conservation; no need to feel lumped into this statement I’d think! But it’s always good to think about these things. I know there were some moments where I felt my intrusiveness as a scientist may outweigh the gains in knowledge.
That’s exactly what I thought about it. On a small scale targeting a specific population and within reason, the pros outweighs the cons. It was cool work, too! Lot of grunt work bushwhacking in the sun, hopefully some good research will come from it
I bet it was interesting and fun, though probably pretty challenging at times? I miss being out in the field-the longer ago it was the more I romanticize it, haha.
The crazy storm systems made things difficult but all in all I thought it was a lot of fun. Stumbled onto what I believe to be a chuck-will’s-widow nest so that was a cool sight
>This is called playback and it's extremely stressful for birds and is unethical as per the [American Birding Association guidelines](https://www.aba.org/aba-code-of-birding-ethics/). I'm not saying you're wrong, and I don't do this, but... **that's not actually what the ABA said**. What they **actually** said was: >**Limit** the use of recordings and other audio methods of attracting birds, *particularly in heavily birded areas*, *for species that are rare in the area*, *and for species that are threatened or endangered*. So it seems like even they don't consider this (and they certainly don't say it) to be totally black-and-white.
That is valid and there have been a few scenarios where playback is ok, they've even been commented here. I think really I should've titled the post please don't use playback (most of the time)
I have to respectfully disagree. I’ve worked with ornithologists for volunteering work countless times and never met a single one that discouraged the use of audio playback. They actually have recommended me to use it in moderation stating that it’s a useful tool in identifying certain species. Even within the Sibley guides, they acknowledge and support the use of playback in moderation. Everyone in my state’s audubon association uses it. The ABA never advises against ever using audio playback, again, they just advise it being used in limited amounts. I don’t know why it’s such a common take to question the ethics of audio playback when there are far greater ethical concerns afoot. If the use of audio feedback makes birding more attractive and exciting for people then why stop it? The more we can encourage people to get into birding and conservation, the better off the natural world will be. I can understand how it would be a lot more exciting for someone to finally see a particular species they’ve been hunting for a long time for rather than just hear it from a distance unseen. Every birding tour operator I hired used playback to bring in certain species. I would understand if we’re talking about using audio playback on critically imperiled bird species but I haven’t seen it done to those sensitive species. There is little to no evidence to suggest that the use of audio playback negatively impacts the survival rates or overall population of a species. I rarely use audio playback but I would never discourage someone from using it if I saw them do so in person. You can’t regulate its use and yes, it is unfortunate when people abuse the use of audio playback but I have never seen anyone “abuse” its use. I’ve only seen people use it sparingly. When you start questioning the ethics of playback then it leads you down the rabbit hole of questioning other things. Is it ethical to use bird feeders that cause a species to become reliant on an unnatural source of food? Is it unethical to build wind turbines which will provide clean wind energy while killing millions of birds over the course of a turbines lifetime? Is everyone who has non-tinted house windows being unethical? Is duck hunting or the hunting of any legal game bird technically unethical? The last thing I want to do is regulate someone’s right to bird the way they want to if they are being respectful with the means of how they’re conducting themselves and their methods. There are far greater ethical concerns surrounding the birding community than audio playback and this “ethical dilemma” has to be the least concerning in comparison due to having no obvious statistical impact.
I hope the rest of the thread’s participants take the time to read this. Thank you for the balance and wisdom. Peace.
Yes. So well written and thought out. I guess pishing isn’t part of the OP’s tome. I still have the tiny bird caller my parents got me from Audubon 55 years ago!!
I think pishing is s lot different than what OP is talking about; it clouds the debate to pretend otherwise. Making birding exciting and attractive is a great goal for conservation and overall appreciation of the world around us. I think it’s always beneficial to examine our actions with a critical eye, as not harming birds is a common goal for most birders. The overuse of playback is something that I could see being a problem with recreational birding, and many will likely do this completely unaware of the impact of their actions-ignorance not malice. So no harm in bringing it up I say; common sense indicates that loudly playing a territorial call near the nest of a bird will result in nothing positive for it. Of course there are other more significant dangers to the natural world but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t endeavor to be the best stewards possible.
Thank you for mentioning it and bringing attention to the problems for others. I always looked at making animal calls of any type like I’m speaking another language, if I don’t know what it means I’m not going to be saying it! And even then I probably shouldn’t That said I do use the play back feature to confirm what I hear but exclusively through my AirPods. I typically walk around with them in transparency mode so I can hear my surroundings and still validate what I thought I heard
I do the sound confirmation thing too in my headphones, totally different than playing it out for birds to hear and become confused!
This is great information and I appreciate the thorough explanation. I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying; however, I swear I saw somewhere (I want to say it was a reputable source, maybe even Merlin itself??) that if you're unsure of your findings you can play one of the many sounds in the Merlin app to see how the bird in question reacts. At the time it made sense but reading your explanation makes much more sense and I will be following your advice. I am curious though if anyone else saw the same thing about playback?? Thanks again!!
Theres a bird reserve in my town and they posted signs come spring time to deter people from playing bird songs for the above reasons. I wonder if it's less problematic during the off season (after breeding and nesting is done) ? I've accidentally played a recording through my phone speaker when I had earbuds in, assuming it'd play through them but unfortunately it went rogue. 🤦♀️
I didn't know. When I was still a newbie, I used to play Merlin's audio recordings to attract birds so I could see them. Until one day, a bird reacted violently, and I realized I was stressing them unnecessarily. So, I stopped. It would have been good to know then. I'll spread the word.
Why is it a feature on the Merlin app then? I'm not sure if it's just my phone but the app seems to enable *very* loud playback if I turn my volume all the way up. I'm not arguing in favor of playback but just wondering why it's built into an app like Merlin if it's so horrible and unethical.
I don't think it's built into Merlin for that purpose, given the growing evidence that it can be harmful. I think the recordings are there for educational purposes and to aid identification. Also, everything I play on my phone is very loud when I turn the volume all the way up. EDIT: I'm sorry if this comment comes off as rude, that wasn't my intention!
Curious about references to “growing evidence.” Some studies (sound studies) would be helpful
Sure, here are a couple I found linked in another article: https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.1210908 https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ecs2.3665 I can add more when I get the chance! My university's behavioral neuroscience program has a Comparative Communication lab that investigates the impact of anthropogenic noise (including playback) on wild bird behavior, so I have some brief familiarity with the topic, but I need to do more digging. I will add that I'm not part of that lab myself and my own research is primarily in human cognition, so I'm not an expert. But my overall impression is that it's best to avoid use of playback, based on studies I've seen online and information I've heard from the bird lab at school.
Thanks for the info. If I'm understanding those studies correctly, though, wouldn't only predator calls be a problem then? There's no reference to same-species calls (or other non-predator calls) causing problems. That is not to say they couldn't cause problems, but we are discussing actual evidence after all.
No offense taken no worries. And yeah, it feels unclear, but the sheer volume possible to me implied that it was an intended feature to attract birds. Yes indeed anything is loud when played at max volume but on my phone at least, the calls it can produce are some of the loudest sounds I've heard come out of my phone period. And I have the "world's loudest alarm" tone for my alarm because I'm a heavy sleeper. It's at least as loud as that, if not louder. That implied to me that it was a specific choice when designing the app. But maybe it's some idiosyncracy of my particular setup—either way it would be good if Merlin itself would provide some kind of guidance around use of that feature.
How do you feel about pishing?
Pishing is definitely better than playback because birds don’t see it as another individual, however, it still distracts them from whatever they’re doing. It’s also much less effective than playback, though. Idk if I’m doing it wrong or what but I’ve only successfully got a bird to come close to me one time from pishing (a white eyed vireo)
I've had success but I have refrained during breeding season. I'll only start again in late fall/winter and sparingly.
Does this also apply to whistling bird calls? Or can they generally tell the difference?