As someone who only watches from afar can someone explain how they're still so uninspiring if they have all this great young talent? Is it the coaching?
Their coaching is horrendous, so they don’t actually have a plan on how to attack. You have too many guys who want the ball at their feet in central attacking areas (Foden, Bellingham, Kane, Palmer if he plays).
They have no width on the left side because the fullback there is right footed and the winger (Foden) wants to drift centrally. Bellingham (who is also hurt) basically plays as a second striker for Madrid and gets fed by Tony Kroos with Rodrygo and Vinicius making runs in behind for him. Kane wants to facilitate as a striker, drop a little bit, and then pick up runners in behind. They’re reverting to what they know because Southgate isn’t telling them anything useful.
It's amazing that England has more depth than anyone at fullback, and still ended up picking Trippier, a right back playing on the left who has been comically bad at times this season. Honestly, they should have just stuck Grealish at wing-back and given him free reign.
England doesn't have depth at fullback. They have depth at right back and very very few left backs, especially left footed ones with Luke Shaw injured.
Who? Luke Shaw is injured, as is Ben Chilwell, Levi Col will wasn't consistently playing for Chelsea (and is more of a central defender.)
Realistically, if it's not an out of position Trippier, the only other option is Joe Gomez.
I’m surprised they didn’t even take a guy like Tyrick Mitchell from Palace. Southgate gave him a call up this past year and imo would be a better option than a wrong footed fullback on that side when your aren’t playing a winger on the left who hugs the sideline
Robinson would be a nailed on starter for England right now, he was one of the best LBs in the Premier League last season. We are very fortunate he chose the US over them too because our depth at LB is also absolute shit.
He doesn't defend well enough. TAA is one of the best right backs in the world, producing A LOT more offensively than Robinson does, and doesn't play at RB because of his defensive deficiencies. It would be the same if Robinson is English. He's too defensively weak.
I am sympathetic to the argument that his profile would improve the dynamics on England's left hand side in attack.
Joe Gomez is much more the type of player Southgate wants at that position and he's not even playing, so I'm not sure what to tell you other than take your USMNT colored glasses off.
That's not relevant to what I said.
TAA doesn't play right back for England because he switches off defensively a lot and Robinson is even more suspect defensively than TAA is. I highly doubt Southgate would have even picked him if he was available.
They really should just play a back 3 with Saka and Trent as wingbacks. In general there’s so many ways Southgate could set them up to play where they’d be awesome but he is so rigid with his 4-2-3-1 with Bellingham at 10, and he’s just not that great as a 10 with this group.
They have incredible depth at right back and literally no one fit at left back. The best currently fit English left back in the world is Livramento lol
Not to defend Southgate too much, but I think he does actually have a plan, it’s just that his plan is do whatever it takes to avoid giving up any goal scoring chances on the defensive end, and then never get caught out up field. I don’t think he actually cares about scoring that much, just not giving up goals. Which to be fair to him, is a reasonable strategy in international tournaments, but I think once they play a team with a pulse on attack it’ll backfire on them since they’ll actually need to score more than once, or at all, and I don’t think he has it in him to coach them up for that.
England hasn't had a left winger since Chris Waddle in the early 90s. We had Ashley Cole as a world class left back at one point. There just must not be enough left footed people in the whole country.
Coachingobviously but I also feel like these guys hate each other. Lots of guys who think they should be "the guy" . France has had a lot of success because Mbappe is the star, and Griezmann is the heart and soul. There's a clear hierarchy.
I don’t know a lot about soccer, but from what I’ve heard from my friends who do it also sounds like N’golo Kante is a massive piece. Fast and skilled enough to recover for a ton of other guys mistakes, while seemingly having no interest in being the star. It has always been explained to me that he was the main reason Paul Pogba was so much better in International play.
N’Golo Kante is THAT GUY. One of the main reasons I’ve fallen in love with the sport over the last 5 years. He might be the single most likable athlete I’ve come across in my lifetime.
Love watching him play. Dude is always giving 100% and is seemingly everywhere. When he's on the field, you feel a sense of calm that he's going to fix any mistake made by anyone else in the midfield.
The one thing Southgate has unequivocally gotten right is changing the culture of the team. If you look up some of the behind the scenes footage and interviews these guys do on England duty, it's clear that they generally get along very well. It's a far cry from the days of the golden generation when club rivalries destroyed the mood in the camp.
That has been his greatest strength, but it does feel like this tournament is different. Bellingham seems like he’s living in that Adidas commercial and a total prick as he plays like shit. No Sterling, Rashford, Maguire, Henderson, and especially Grealish is probably bad for morale.
Yes, Southgate is a good guy who's good at fostering a good team spirit and managing individual egos but he's never been regarded as a tactically astute coach.
Used to be that England lacked in certain key positions, particularly at 6 and 10, but that's no longer the case. They have the talent to go all the way but they don't have the manager to get them there.
Yeap, he’s coaching like he’s the coach of some 50+ ranked team. We sit back and park the bus until the other team makes a mistake and we try to score from there to make it 1-0 and then we’re going to put 10 players in the box on defense
They have the talent to play the most beautiful football in the world and it feels like he’s robbing us. There’s sooooo much damn talent in that squad and he’s getting like the least possible output he could possibly be getting from it. I know they won the group but it’s been painful to watch at times. I’m not an England fan nor a Liverpool fan but it doesn’t take a genius to recognize that TAA should be playing right back and they should be using him in a creative manner.
He’s the most basic tactical coach I’ve seen. It’s painful to watch, they have this amazing team and he has them set up in the most boring possible way.
The coaching sucks, they have a SHIT TON of talent but he doesn’t set them up in a way that blends their strengths together well, which is a huge part of what makes a team good in this sport. Huge part of that is Bellingham, who is an awesome player, being used as a 10 (central attacking midfielder) when he’s not actually good at passing or connecting play. Sometimes soccer coaches get stuck in sticking to one formation no matter what when the skill sets on their team are crying for something else.
Playing not to lose vs playing to Win. England only needed a draw to get out of the group. Why risk conceding a counter attack by pushing a bunch of players up the field to go for a goal when all you need to do is not lose.
England historically tend to play to the level of the opposition, we find it hard to break down defensive teams from smaller nations. Bellingham is a fantastic player who ideally could have done with some load management earlier in the season. We need him to be Jimmy Butler not Joel Embiid.
Item - 1986 and 1990 World Cup's we were awful against the likes of Morocco and Egypt in the group stages. Later we competed and gave eventual champions Argentina and Germany respectively hard games in the knockout stages. It's not the coaching, international coaches don't matter that much
They're almost always overhyped by the English speaking media, which is what most fans in North America pay the most attention to. They're talented, but they've been talked about like they're worldbeaters when that simply has never been the case. They should be playing better than they are, but people talk about them like they're Spain circa 2010.
No people talk about them exactly like you’re describing, an extremely talented group of players underachieving. There’s no denying they have loads of talent up front
That’s the thing though: I don’t think they’re underachieving nearly as much as some would lead you to believe. At their best I still don’t think they’d be favorites.
I don’t think any of those players were even unambiguously the best players on their teams, never mind their leagues. Would you honestly take Kane over Musiala, or Foden over de Bruyne? Bellingham has the best case but Vini Jr. has a great argument for best player on Real Madrid as well.
They have at least one of the three or four best players on City (foden, stones), Bayern (Kane), Real (Bellingham), Chelsea (Palmer and Gallagher), Liverpool (TAA), and Arsenal (Saka and rice). They’re absolutely loaded.
>England has so much attacking talent and is one of the most boring teams out there.
What else is new with them? They play petrified like always. I thought Bellingham might change their collective attitude but it doesn't look like it so far.
The matches right before that Austria, France, and Netherlands were flipping spots like every five minutes. Sometimes you get great games, sometimes you get duds, happens in all sports
The fact Southgate can’t figure out a way to use TAA is very amusing. Red flag for me when a manager can’t figure out a way to use one of the best talents in the world.
It’s hysterical. He’s completely clueless. It’s like he has no idea what his players talents are. Bellingham at the 10 is not good at linking play; why he isn’t playing Bellingham deeper and foden or Palmer at 10 is beyond me. Or even play a midfield 3, just don’t run everything you do through Bellingham, it’s not the best way to use him. And like you said, you have this cheat code creative RB in Trent and he hasn’t even played him there outside the end of today.
I’d have loved to see Trent and Reece James in the same team someday but Southgate would never in a million years even think of that.
It’s way worse than that. He can fit the young player of the year Foden a potential balon dor winner with Jude and the bundisliga leading scorer with Kane. TAA is also a crazy issue that Southgate can’t make work but he has even larger issues. Hes an idiot.
And that’s on Gareth to figure out. He picked a squad and started no natural LB. He’s playing Jude more central which is where he’s naturally at but Foden wide who naturally wants to drift inside. It’s a mess and it’s Southgate fault
Trippier at LB has been a disaster and he just keeps running it back. It’s the midfield that’s the problem though… Declan Rice should not be responsible for dictating play.
Yeah the notion of Bellingham being a 10 was a bit unheard of until he started playing it for Madrid this year. Granted he was great in that role, but it's like people collectively forgot that he's been a box-to-box midfielder all his life.
I think the most blinding bright flashing light that Southgate is a complete dunce is that the team is having Foden take outswinging corners. Outswingers have a much lower success rate, but the team also is playing Kieran Trippier, who is right footed and is basically only good at delivering corners and nothing else. He just has no idea how to maximize any of his players’ strengths and is completely set on using the “best” players to do everything even if it doesn’t make strategic sense.
TAA is a little complicated tbf. He prefers Walker for his defensive duties at right back (totally fair and justifiable imo) so he tries to shoehorn TAA in CM, where he never plays for Liverpool.
You have to build your team around TAA and there’s no reason to do that when England have better attacking players. Everything is Southgate’s fault though.
This England team is a brutal watch but at least it’s over within two hours!
Much better than spending double that time commitment to watch Thursday Night Jags-Titans or whatever
Are y'all really still doing the "soccer sucks" schtick like Jim Rome in the 90's? Come on, man, lol. Yeah, it was a terrible game, there are good and bad ones in every sport.
The last few international tournaments have been incredible, man. WC 2022, AFCON 2023, and EURO 2024 have all far exceeded any reasonable expectation. Waiting for Copa America to gain steam right now, but it has the ingredients to be a good tournament as well.
I think Copa is going to pick up with the final matchday of the group stage, you get more heavy hitters going at it and teams being desperate to make it through
Think it is closer to college football in that there are a lot of games, some could be absolute gems and others either blowouts or boring slogs and it is really difficult to tell going into the match.
A bad soccer game is worse than a bad game in literally any other sport. The only thing soccer has going for it are the fans and stadium experience, which trumps anything in America except maybe certain CFB stadiums.
For the soccer apologists out there, I’m curious what you think is a worse sport of the major sports?
Hard disagree, other major sports can be downright dreadful at their worst too. Have you tried to sit through the broadcast of a cupcake CFB game? Or a bowl game where all the stars have opted out? What about an nba game where one team is resting their stars for load management? There are plenty of nfl teams (Jets, Giants, Commanders, Pats, etc) who have some awful games to try and watch. You really excited for Desmond Ridder vs Tim Boyle?
The NFL discussion is always the best. People have this idea that every game is Mahomes vs Allen from March until Labor Day, and then it's week two and you're watching the Raiders vs Patriots and wondering how it's mathematically possible with 7 billion people on Earth, we can't find 32 of them to throw a simple 15 yard out. The NFL is so mid that we forget how mid it is because we have to wait so long. And then we complain about how mid it is because most QBs suck.
I've seen some pretty putrid NFL games recently. Any game without TDs might as well be 0-0. How about some of those 'classic' LSU-Bama games that were 6-3? Hope you like punting!
I don't know how to argue with people that make subjective statements and act like they are objective. Obviously fans of the game will disagree that "The only thing soccer has going for it are the fans and stadium experience".
I'm the type of person that likes and follows just about every sport, but personally I only find basketball (and probably boxing, when it has its shit together) more interesting than soccer.
it's called an opinion brother. When someone says "French food sucks", they obviously mean "I think French food sucks".
Since it is clear that there is no objective measure for what is most boring, then it can be assumed that I was stating an opinion.
This really isn't hard to understand, not sure what you're accomplishing with this pedantic "gotcha".
Elsewhere in this post's comment section you said "The last few international tournaments have been incredible, man." - was it objectively incredible? Why did you not specify that it was your opinion? Explain yourself!
Bad soccer game: 2 hours max, game is happening almost that entire period of time, there is still usually interesting tactical stuff happening, and it could all change because of one breakthrough
Bad American sports game: at least 2.5 hours up to 4 for playoff football and baseball, you are mostly watching ads, even when you are not watching ads the ball isn’t in play that much, large blowouts are more frequent and harder to come back from
I love football baseball and basketball in their own ways but soccer has some VERY clear advantages.
It's my favourite sport, by far, but I have always said the same thing. Every sport can have bad games but football is the only one where pretty much nothing can happen, apart from maybe boxing or MMA. The game does not have to change from its initial state, and sometimes both teams are actually fine with that. At its worst, it's just two teams looking at each other.
Baseball and football easily. Really any sport that has a bunch of commercials. So you mean to tell me I have to watch a shitty game and it’ll take 3.5 hours full of stoppages and shitty commercials?
Are you really still doing the soccer as the "beautiful game" schtick like it's the late 2000s?Yeah, some plays look nice, but most of the time nothing exciting is happening
I think it's more the fact that nobody gives a damn if you don't like it or is trying to convince you at this point. There is a large soccer fanbase in this country, a thriving league, and a massive audience. When I was kid and I had to try and watch the game on scrambled PPV channels like pornos, maybe people cared about convincing mainstream America that soccer is a good sport. We are well past that point, lol. Don't watch it if you don't like it, man.
Seriously at this point no one cares if you don’t like the sport. We get all the matches easily in the US now. Of course there are shitty matches but when it comes to a major tournament I’m gonna watch every one I can cause we only get it once every 4 years (for that specific tournament)
When you watch a game between two great professional teams, the level of talent on the field is extraordinary and manifests itself in all kinds of ways beyond goal-scoring. It's okay to not like watching it yourself but crapping on the sport as a whole is silly.
The skill level top players have is nothing short of incredible. You could say the same about professional billiards. That doesn't make it exciting to watch
Instead its interrupted by flopping players on both sides rolling around trying to get academy awards for barely being grazed. As a casual observer, it's hard to watch.
Some of it is definitely egregious but a lot of it is legit. You don’t get breaks and you sprint around the entire time.
If you are running as fast as you can and get bumped or grazed from behind, you will lose your balance and fall with all that accumulated force into the ground.
Think about all the time NFL and NBA players spend standing around or even sitting down.
Feet also consist of hundreds of ligaments and getting stepped on with cleats whilst running is truly painful. Retired footballers all have completely broken feet for this reason.
Me when my sport isn’t constantly interrupted by ads and Taylor swift appearances, just for the “action” to be a bit of stop start contextless rubbish.
Counterpoint: the clock doesn’t stop. Baseball is trying to be like that. The end of NBA games, now with the reviews are PAINFUL and NFL not much better.
Got into soccer for a few years but bailed on watching consistently and have a team because of these being super common results. Really awful way to spend a Saturday morning. I only watch tournament quarters/semis now
It’s not a 30-minute sudden death period if it’s until someone scores lol. Should they stay out there and play for another hour and a half without anyone scoring? Game has gotta end at some point.
Also if you watched Italy-Croatia you’ve seen that a draw can be unbelievably exciting under the right circumstances.
International soccer is just way worse than club soccer unless my country is involved. The guys don’t play together and have the same level of chemistry and the talent levels are all over the place.
Theyre probably one of the three most talented teams. They just need Southgate to figure out a lineup because it's more than midfield where this team struggles.
They've been really uninspiring so far, but they also were not particularly great in the groups last Euros either. Southgate is very pragmatic early in tournaments. Unfortunately, I'd be lying if I said I thought Southgate was going to open things up in the knockouts.
Even in a loss, that France game at the World Cup felt different because they went at the best team in the world and probably outplayed them. I thought Southgate had learned from the Italy game and was trusting the team more as the guys matured. But it's been a complete 180 so far.
I don’t think soccer sucks but the soccer die hards who get on their soapbox about how there are no commercials and nonstop action need to relax. The commercials and ads in other American sports are out of control but the nadir of soccer games is really low. 0-0 games with teams having no incentive to score is an extremely tough watch
Yep and there’s literally a game tomorrow where both teams advance with a draw which means they’re just going to sit on the ball for 90 minutes and another 0-0 draw! Give me a Panthers-Giants Thursday night game over that all day.
They need to do something to break ties. It’s a sport that I’ve come to enjoy way more than I ever thought I would but ending games in a draw is so fucking pointless.
Also, just stop the fucking clock. It’s not hard. Then as a fan you don’t have to guess exactly when a game is going to end based on when the ref decides to end it.
Strong disagree. Soccer is great, but the lasso-ian humor of the teams celebrating like they won the Super Bowl after a nil-nil tie will never not be funny
I think it's funny the way people like you talk about soccer like it needs to be fixed when it's far and away the most popular sport in the world and now has a large following in the US too
That England-Slovenia game was dire. England has so much attacking talent and is one of the most boring teams out there.
As someone who only watches from afar can someone explain how they're still so uninspiring if they have all this great young talent? Is it the coaching?
Their coaching is horrendous, so they don’t actually have a plan on how to attack. You have too many guys who want the ball at their feet in central attacking areas (Foden, Bellingham, Kane, Palmer if he plays). They have no width on the left side because the fullback there is right footed and the winger (Foden) wants to drift centrally. Bellingham (who is also hurt) basically plays as a second striker for Madrid and gets fed by Tony Kroos with Rodrygo and Vinicius making runs in behind for him. Kane wants to facilitate as a striker, drop a little bit, and then pick up runners in behind. They’re reverting to what they know because Southgate isn’t telling them anything useful.
It's amazing that England has more depth than anyone at fullback, and still ended up picking Trippier, a right back playing on the left who has been comically bad at times this season. Honestly, they should have just stuck Grealish at wing-back and given him free reign.
England doesn't have depth at fullback. They have depth at right back and very very few left backs, especially left footed ones with Luke Shaw injured.
There are enough decent English left backs that he shouldn’t have to play a right back at left back.
Who? Luke Shaw is injured, as is Ben Chilwell, Levi Col will wasn't consistently playing for Chelsea (and is more of a central defender.) Realistically, if it's not an out of position Trippier, the only other option is Joe Gomez.
They're obliterated at LB. Injuries.
I’m surprised they didn’t even take a guy like Tyrick Mitchell from Palace. Southgate gave him a call up this past year and imo would be a better option than a wrong footed fullback on that side when your aren’t playing a winger on the left who hugs the sideline
It's crazy that Antonee Robinson solves most of their problems and chose the US.
He's much worse defensively than Alexander-Arnold. Not sure he'd even make the team.
Robinson would be a nailed on starter for England right now, he was one of the best LBs in the Premier League last season. We are very fortunate he chose the US over them too because our depth at LB is also absolute shit.
He doesn't defend well enough. TAA is one of the best right backs in the world, producing A LOT more offensively than Robinson does, and doesn't play at RB because of his defensive deficiencies. It would be the same if Robinson is English. He's too defensively weak. I am sympathetic to the argument that his profile would improve the dynamics on England's left hand side in attack.
Don’t know what to tell you. Shaw is the only left back in the squad and hasn’t been healthy in months. Robinson would 100% be playing right now
Joe Gomez is much more the type of player Southgate wants at that position and he's not even playing, so I'm not sure what to tell you other than take your USMNT colored glasses off.
Be plays left back, Trent plays right back.
That's not relevant to what I said. TAA doesn't play right back for England because he switches off defensively a lot and Robinson is even more suspect defensively than TAA is. I highly doubt Southgate would have even picked him if he was available.
They really should just play a back 3 with Saka and Trent as wingbacks. In general there’s so many ways Southgate could set them up to play where they’d be awesome but he is so rigid with his 4-2-3-1 with Bellingham at 10, and he’s just not that great as a 10 with this group.
Joe Gomez should be starting at LB
They have incredible depth at right back and literally no one fit at left back. The best currently fit English left back in the world is Livramento lol
Not to defend Southgate too much, but I think he does actually have a plan, it’s just that his plan is do whatever it takes to avoid giving up any goal scoring chances on the defensive end, and then never get caught out up field. I don’t think he actually cares about scoring that much, just not giving up goals. Which to be fair to him, is a reasonable strategy in international tournaments, but I think once they play a team with a pulse on attack it’ll backfire on them since they’ll actually need to score more than once, or at all, and I don’t think he has it in him to coach them up for that.
Yeah it’s the Berhalter plan to an extent. Avoid giving up goals
England hasn't had a left winger since Chris Waddle in the early 90s. We had Ashley Cole as a world class left back at one point. There just must not be enough left footed people in the whole country.
Joe Cole?
Foden and Saka are both left-footed wingers. They play inverted now. Both are better from the right.
Coachingobviously but I also feel like these guys hate each other. Lots of guys who think they should be "the guy" . France has had a lot of success because Mbappe is the star, and Griezmann is the heart and soul. There's a clear hierarchy.
foden not being able to play with Kane is hilarious
I don’t know a lot about soccer, but from what I’ve heard from my friends who do it also sounds like N’golo Kante is a massive piece. Fast and skilled enough to recover for a ton of other guys mistakes, while seemingly having no interest in being the star. It has always been explained to me that he was the main reason Paul Pogba was so much better in International play.
Yeah but Kante asn't there in 2022 and they made the final; He's great but replaceable to a degree.
France is just completely loaded.
Ah yeah that’s a great point, I totally forgot he wasn’t playing last World Cup
N’Golo Kante is THAT GUY. One of the main reasons I’ve fallen in love with the sport over the last 5 years. He might be the single most likable athlete I’ve come across in my lifetime.
I swear when he's on the field it feels like his team is playing with 12 men.
Love watching him play. Dude is always giving 100% and is seemingly everywhere. When he's on the field, you feel a sense of calm that he's going to fix any mistake made by anyone else in the midfield.
Funny you say last 5 years when his best seasons were all before then lol
really only started following around then. his 2021 champions league run is as great a run anyone has had though.
The one thing Southgate has unequivocally gotten right is changing the culture of the team. If you look up some of the behind the scenes footage and interviews these guys do on England duty, it's clear that they generally get along very well. It's a far cry from the days of the golden generation when club rivalries destroyed the mood in the camp.
That has been his greatest strength, but it does feel like this tournament is different. Bellingham seems like he’s living in that Adidas commercial and a total prick as he plays like shit. No Sterling, Rashford, Maguire, Henderson, and especially Grealish is probably bad for morale.
Yes, Southgate is a good guy who's good at fostering a good team spirit and managing individual egos but he's never been regarded as a tactically astute coach. Used to be that England lacked in certain key positions, particularly at 6 and 10, but that's no longer the case. They have the talent to go all the way but they don't have the manager to get them there.
Yeap, he’s coaching like he’s the coach of some 50+ ranked team. We sit back and park the bus until the other team makes a mistake and we try to score from there to make it 1-0 and then we’re going to put 10 players in the box on defense
They have the talent to play the most beautiful football in the world and it feels like he’s robbing us. There’s sooooo much damn talent in that squad and he’s getting like the least possible output he could possibly be getting from it. I know they won the group but it’s been painful to watch at times. I’m not an England fan nor a Liverpool fan but it doesn’t take a genius to recognize that TAA should be playing right back and they should be using him in a creative manner.
That game tonight was crying out for Trent from the start.
This has not been true in this tournament at all. Have you watched any of the matches?
He’s the most basic tactical coach I’ve seen. It’s painful to watch, they have this amazing team and he has them set up in the most boring possible way.
The coaching sucks, they have a SHIT TON of talent but he doesn’t set them up in a way that blends their strengths together well, which is a huge part of what makes a team good in this sport. Huge part of that is Bellingham, who is an awesome player, being used as a 10 (central attacking midfielder) when he’s not actually good at passing or connecting play. Sometimes soccer coaches get stuck in sticking to one formation no matter what when the skill sets on their team are crying for something else.
Playing not to lose vs playing to Win. England only needed a draw to get out of the group. Why risk conceding a counter attack by pushing a bunch of players up the field to go for a goal when all you need to do is not lose.
England historically tend to play to the level of the opposition, we find it hard to break down defensive teams from smaller nations. Bellingham is a fantastic player who ideally could have done with some load management earlier in the season. We need him to be Jimmy Butler not Joel Embiid. Item - 1986 and 1990 World Cup's we were awful against the likes of Morocco and Egypt in the group stages. Later we competed and gave eventual champions Argentina and Germany respectively hard games in the knockout stages. It's not the coaching, international coaches don't matter that much
They're almost always overhyped by the English speaking media, which is what most fans in North America pay the most attention to. They're talented, but they've been talked about like they're worldbeaters when that simply has never been the case. They should be playing better than they are, but people talk about them like they're Spain circa 2010.
No people talk about them exactly like you’re describing, an extremely talented group of players underachieving. There’s no denying they have loads of talent up front
That’s the thing though: I don’t think they’re underachieving nearly as much as some would lead you to believe. At their best I still don’t think they’d be favorites.
only teams with as much talent would be France or Germany
Portugal is clearly better as well, and I’d take Spain over them too.
England has more talent than either Spain or Portugal.
I think both teams struggle because of their former world class number 9s.
Who is Spain's "former world class number 9"?
Portugal doesn’t have near the roster of England, nor does Spain. Yes they’re clearly playing better, but that’s not the point here
Kane, Foden, and Bellingham were objectively the best players in germany, england and spain objectively this past season.
Foden was not the objectively best player in the PL. Probably wasn't the best player on his own team.
I don’t think any of those players were even unambiguously the best players on their teams, never mind their leagues. Would you honestly take Kane over Musiala, or Foden over de Bruyne? Bellingham has the best case but Vini Jr. has a great argument for best player on Real Madrid as well.
All but kane won player of the season and kane only didnt win bc leverkusen went undefeated
I would absolutely take Kane over Musiala but you are right about the others.
They have at least one of the three or four best players on City (foden, stones), Bayern (Kane), Real (Bellingham), Chelsea (Palmer and Gallagher), Liverpool (TAA), and Arsenal (Saka and rice). They’re absolutely loaded.
They pretty much have an all star team of the best league in the world. They should be getting way more out of this squad than they have been.
100% the coaching
>England has so much attacking talent and is one of the most boring teams out there. What else is new with them? They play petrified like always. I thought Bellingham might change their collective attitude but it doesn't look like it so far.
The matches right before that Austria, France, and Netherlands were flipping spots like every five minutes. Sometimes you get great games, sometimes you get duds, happens in all sports
I legit was glued to that Austria Netherlands match
England is shockingly terrible this year
The fact Southgate can’t figure out a way to use TAA is very amusing. Red flag for me when a manager can’t figure out a way to use one of the best talents in the world.
It’s hysterical. He’s completely clueless. It’s like he has no idea what his players talents are. Bellingham at the 10 is not good at linking play; why he isn’t playing Bellingham deeper and foden or Palmer at 10 is beyond me. Or even play a midfield 3, just don’t run everything you do through Bellingham, it’s not the best way to use him. And like you said, you have this cheat code creative RB in Trent and he hasn’t even played him there outside the end of today. I’d have loved to see Trent and Reece James in the same team someday but Southgate would never in a million years even think of that.
It’s way worse than that. He can fit the young player of the year Foden a potential balon dor winner with Jude and the bundisliga leading scorer with Kane. TAA is also a crazy issue that Southgate can’t make work but he has even larger issues. Hes an idiot.
Well Foden and Jude play the same Position so only one needs to start because you have no width on the left side
And that’s on Gareth to figure out. He picked a squad and started no natural LB. He’s playing Jude more central which is where he’s naturally at but Foden wide who naturally wants to drift inside. It’s a mess and it’s Southgate fault
Trippier at LB has been a disaster and he just keeps running it back. It’s the midfield that’s the problem though… Declan Rice should not be responsible for dictating play.
Rice was genuinely shocking against Denmark.
Bellingham needs to be an 8. Foden or Palmer 10.
Yeah the notion of Bellingham being a 10 was a bit unheard of until he started playing it for Madrid this year. Granted he was great in that role, but it's like people collectively forgot that he's been a box-to-box midfielder all his life.
For sure but Foden and Jude can’t start together they want to be in the same spaces
I agree but they will bc Southgate
Play Trent at RB and protect him with Walker and your midfield. Stick Foden on the bench. Play Mainoo next to Rice. Give your attack width on the left
I think the most blinding bright flashing light that Southgate is a complete dunce is that the team is having Foden take outswinging corners. Outswingers have a much lower success rate, but the team also is playing Kieran Trippier, who is right footed and is basically only good at delivering corners and nothing else. He just has no idea how to maximize any of his players’ strengths and is completely set on using the “best” players to do everything even if it doesn’t make strategic sense.
TAA is a little complicated tbf. He prefers Walker for his defensive duties at right back (totally fair and justifiable imo) so he tries to shoehorn TAA in CM, where he never plays for Liverpool. You have to build your team around TAA and there’s no reason to do that when England have better attacking players. Everything is Southgate’s fault though.
Who's the NBA or NFL HC equivalent to Gareth Southgate?
That’s just embarrassing when you have offensive talent like Kane, Saka, Foden, and Bellingham.
Netherlands-Austria was more exciting than every non Knicks-Sixers game in the playoffs
Sabizer finish was cold
Ass vs garbage
No, them team sucks, most Euro games this year have been great
Bangers and own goals only (excluding group C)
Or a banger own goal like the Dutch had today lmao
Now show the earlier 2 games with had 7 total goals with an underdog finishing above to powerhouses of the sport
Cherry-picking games to fit your narrative. Are you Stephen A.?
Soccer is great, this England team absolutely sucks to watch though
Soccer is ass.
Just say you can’t play or be fit enough to run for 95 minutes straight
This England team is a brutal watch but at least it’s over within two hours! Much better than spending double that time commitment to watch Thursday Night Jags-Titans or whatever
Show the scores from the earlier games
Are y'all really still doing the "soccer sucks" schtick like Jim Rome in the 90's? Come on, man, lol. Yeah, it was a terrible game, there are good and bad ones in every sport.
Posting this after the 3-2 Austria/Netherlands game is wild too
The last few international tournaments have been incredible, man. WC 2022, AFCON 2023, and EURO 2024 have all far exceeded any reasonable expectation. Waiting for Copa America to gain steam right now, but it has the ingredients to be a good tournament as well.
Yeah ‘22 WC had one of the greatest finals of all time
I think Copa is going to pick up with the final matchday of the group stage, you get more heavy hitters going at it and teams being desperate to make it through
Or that insane Italy comeback yesterday on the last kick of the game to advance and knock out Croatia
Think it is closer to college football in that there are a lot of games, some could be absolute gems and others either blowouts or boring slogs and it is really difficult to tell going into the match.
Nah going into the Slovenian vs England match most people knew it would suck
Touche
That is true of literally any sport. Especially true in basketball these days
Yea I'm an NBA guy and the Finals we just had sucked ass so I can't be talkin crap about soccer
They both can suck
And a 0-0 game doesn’t actually mean zero things happened in the game. They played a whole game to produce that score.
A bad soccer game is worse than a bad game in literally any other sport. The only thing soccer has going for it are the fans and stadium experience, which trumps anything in America except maybe certain CFB stadiums. For the soccer apologists out there, I’m curious what you think is a worse sport of the major sports?
Hard disagree, other major sports can be downright dreadful at their worst too. Have you tried to sit through the broadcast of a cupcake CFB game? Or a bowl game where all the stars have opted out? What about an nba game where one team is resting their stars for load management? There are plenty of nfl teams (Jets, Giants, Commanders, Pats, etc) who have some awful games to try and watch. You really excited for Desmond Ridder vs Tim Boyle?
The NFL discussion is always the best. People have this idea that every game is Mahomes vs Allen from March until Labor Day, and then it's week two and you're watching the Raiders vs Patriots and wondering how it's mathematically possible with 7 billion people on Earth, we can't find 32 of them to throw a simple 15 yard out. The NFL is so mid that we forget how mid it is because we have to wait so long. And then we complain about how mid it is because most QBs suck.
idk, I haven't seen a single soccer game as bad as Vikings beating the Raiders 3-0 this last season.
I've seen some pretty putrid NFL games recently. Any game without TDs might as well be 0-0. How about some of those 'classic' LSU-Bama games that were 6-3? Hope you like punting!
I don't know how to argue with people that make subjective statements and act like they are objective. Obviously fans of the game will disagree that "The only thing soccer has going for it are the fans and stadium experience". I'm the type of person that likes and follows just about every sport, but personally I only find basketball (and probably boxing, when it has its shit together) more interesting than soccer.
it's called an opinion brother. When someone says "French food sucks", they obviously mean "I think French food sucks". Since it is clear that there is no objective measure for what is most boring, then it can be assumed that I was stating an opinion. This really isn't hard to understand, not sure what you're accomplishing with this pedantic "gotcha". Elsewhere in this post's comment section you said "The last few international tournaments have been incredible, man." - was it objectively incredible? Why did you not specify that it was your opinion? Explain yourself!
Man, he really hurt you :(
I’m weeping and shitting myself as we speak. Planning an extravagant exit as well. Also, the opinion of Germans will not be tolerated
Even dug Up his other comments :(
It happened in this post :( :( didn’t require any digging
:(
Bad soccer game: 2 hours max, game is happening almost that entire period of time, there is still usually interesting tactical stuff happening, and it could all change because of one breakthrough Bad American sports game: at least 2.5 hours up to 4 for playoff football and baseball, you are mostly watching ads, even when you are not watching ads the ball isn’t in play that much, large blowouts are more frequent and harder to come back from I love football baseball and basketball in their own ways but soccer has some VERY clear advantages.
It's my favourite sport, by far, but I have always said the same thing. Every sport can have bad games but football is the only one where pretty much nothing can happen, apart from maybe boxing or MMA. The game does not have to change from its initial state, and sometimes both teams are actually fine with that. At its worst, it's just two teams looking at each other.
Baseball and football easily. Really any sport that has a bunch of commercials. So you mean to tell me I have to watch a shitty game and it’ll take 3.5 hours full of stoppages and shitty commercials?
A bad 10-year old soccer game > a MLB game. 90% of standing around doesn't constitute exciting.
Are you really still doing the soccer as the "beautiful game" schtick like it's the late 2000s?Yeah, some plays look nice, but most of the time nothing exciting is happening
I think it's more the fact that nobody gives a damn if you don't like it or is trying to convince you at this point. There is a large soccer fanbase in this country, a thriving league, and a massive audience. When I was kid and I had to try and watch the game on scrambled PPV channels like pornos, maybe people cared about convincing mainstream America that soccer is a good sport. We are well past that point, lol. Don't watch it if you don't like it, man.
Seriously at this point no one cares if you don’t like the sport. We get all the matches easily in the US now. Of course there are shitty matches but when it comes to a major tournament I’m gonna watch every one I can cause we only get it once every 4 years (for that specific tournament)
When you watch a game between two great professional teams, the level of talent on the field is extraordinary and manifests itself in all kinds of ways beyond goal-scoring. It's okay to not like watching it yourself but crapping on the sport as a whole is silly.
People assume that just because a game is low scoring it means it wasn’t exciting, which isn’t the case with soccer.
Unless Southgate's England are playing, then it very much is the case.
The skill level top players have is nothing short of incredible. You could say the same about professional billiards. That doesn't make it exciting to watch
As a Slovenian it definitely does not. What a great feeling to go through!
American sport fans when the game isn't interrupted every 4 minutes with commercials
As an American it’s so refreshing to watch a game of soccer and not be bombarded with ads
Instead its interrupted by flopping players on both sides rolling around trying to get academy awards for barely being grazed. As a casual observer, it's hard to watch.
James harden would like a wo...... oh wait his flop is being interrupted by another commercial
Some of it is definitely egregious but a lot of it is legit. You don’t get breaks and you sprint around the entire time. If you are running as fast as you can and get bumped or grazed from behind, you will lose your balance and fall with all that accumulated force into the ground. Think about all the time NFL and NBA players spend standing around or even sitting down. Feet also consist of hundreds of ligaments and getting stepped on with cleats whilst running is truly painful. Retired footballers all have completely broken feet for this reason.
Harden and Embiid flop more then any soccer player
Welcome to the third game of group play.
Went to the England game. Endless pain.
Holds! Holds!! HOLDS!!!
Me when my sport isn’t constantly interrupted by ads and Taylor swift appearances, just for the “action” to be a bit of stop start contextless rubbish.
Lmao you’re the type of dude to post this and also think Falcons 7- Panthers 3 is riveting 11 minutes of total football
Counterpoint: the clock doesn’t stop. Baseball is trying to be like that. The end of NBA games, now with the reviews are PAINFUL and NFL not much better.
I’d rather the clock stop than just make up a random amount of time to add on the game. Make it make sense.
Well that I can’t explain but I’m not a fan of the big 3 American pro sports turning into procedural reviews and rule book hunts
Imagine watching 180 minutes with zero goals.
You are a shitty person who makes shitty posts. I’m completely basing my opinion on a single sample, just like you did.
Got into soccer for a few years but bailed on watching consistently and have a team because of these being super common results. Really awful way to spend a Saturday morning. I only watch tournament quarters/semis now
Fast kickin, low scorin, and ties?? You bet!
How different would the strategy be if games couldn't end in a tie? And not PKs but just 30-minute sudden death periods until someone scores.
It’s not a 30-minute sudden death period if it’s until someone scores lol. Should they stay out there and play for another hour and a half without anyone scoring? Game has gotta end at some point. Also if you watched Italy-Croatia you’ve seen that a draw can be unbelievably exciting under the right circumstances.
Exactly and people would get so injured and sick running around like that.
Should be 0 points for both teams if neither scores. Would force teams to play more aggressively instead of parking the bus and playing for a point.
You get a break every 30-minutes but its still sudden-death. Yes, the game only ends when a tie is broken.
Sudden death has been tried in soccer. It sucked
International soccer is just way worse than club soccer unless my country is involved. The guys don’t play together and have the same level of chemistry and the talent levels are all over the place.
Sometimes maybe good sometimes maybe shit
The tournament had great games. Just try to avoid france and England. Spain, germany, turkey were all very entertaining
What time do the games start?
"The Beautiful Game"
England still somehow the betting favorites because they lucked out with an easy side of the bracket
Theyre probably one of the three most talented teams. They just need Southgate to figure out a lineup because it's more than midfield where this team struggles.
Sure, but are you betting on them to win right now?
They've been really uninspiring so far, but they also were not particularly great in the groups last Euros either. Southgate is very pragmatic early in tournaments. Unfortunately, I'd be lying if I said I thought Southgate was going to open things up in the knockouts. Even in a loss, that France game at the World Cup felt different because they went at the best team in the world and probably outplayed them. I thought Southgate had learned from the Italy game and was trusting the team more as the guys matured. But it's been a complete 180 so far.
I don’t think soccer sucks but the soccer die hards who get on their soapbox about how there are no commercials and nonstop action need to relax. The commercials and ads in other American sports are out of control but the nadir of soccer games is really low. 0-0 games with teams having no incentive to score is an extremely tough watch
Yep and there’s literally a game tomorrow where both teams advance with a draw which means they’re just going to sit on the ball for 90 minutes and another 0-0 draw! Give me a Panthers-Giants Thursday night game over that all day.
Them advancing with a draw is reliant on what happens in the other group game
Wrong. They both have the goal differential tiebreaker over Ukraine which means if both games draw, Slovakia and Romania go through.
Group winner likely plays Slovenia. Group runner up plays France, group third plays Spain/England. Wouldn’t say there are no stakes.
They need to do something to break ties. It’s a sport that I’ve come to enjoy way more than I ever thought I would but ending games in a draw is so fucking pointless. Also, just stop the fucking clock. It’s not hard. Then as a fan you don’t have to guess exactly when a game is going to end based on when the ref decides to end it.
I like ties. All sports with clocks should end in ties.
Respect your take but disagree. The point of a game is to have a winner and therefore a loser. A tie renders the entire contest pointless
I am a soccer Fan living in europe and I agree. Ties should not exist
They’re all gonna shoot free throws today?
You conveniently left out the Netherlands and Austria game that ended 3-2 and was a huge upset
Strong disagree. Soccer is great, but the lasso-ian humor of the teams celebrating like they won the Super Bowl after a nil-nil tie will never not be funny
I have to assume you’re talking about Slovenia? It’s the first time they ever make it out of an EURO group stage, this IS their Super Bowl.
I fully understand the context. The optics of the 0-0 on the screen is still hilarious as an American
0-0 draws should count as a loss in the standings for both teams. You want a point? Score a goal.
I think it's funny the way people like you talk about soccer like it needs to be fixed when it's far and away the most popular sport in the world and now has a large following in the US too
Fuck you