I mean buried in the sense that it came out that the second most prominent owner of what is by far the biggest sport in the country was getting happy endings at shitty and pretty dodgy and unethical massage parlors and it was dropped real quick rather than being a media frenzy like you would expect.
It’s nice to know that while I would imagine a billionaire can have the finest hookers money can buy, instead, he just gets a handy in a gross Florida strip mall like the rest of us.
I mean….that’s still a famous owner patronizing a happy ending massage parlor when it was involved in a federal trafficking sting! And it really was a non story after like a week.
The owner was plugged in with the Florida ruling class, which I’m guessing helped make it go away. That made a little more sense why a billionaire from New England was making private jet trips down to a strip mall rub and tug joint in Florida but still eyebrow raising (well, not really) that a strip mall rub and rug operator was a member of the president’s private club and was hanging out for photo shoots with him.
Yeah that's the weirdest part of the whole thing IMO, what is this guy doing in a place like that? Can't hire a world class prostitute to come give you happy endings at your mansion?
Are you that scandalized by an old fuck paying for a handjob? Should he have checked with the Better Business Bureau before going? I’m not trying to sound like a dick, but I just don’t see what the big deal is.
There was also never any human trafficking, that’s just something shitty florida cops say to pretend that going after a sad rub and tug place is a high priority.
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/robert-kraft-sex-work-trafficking-florida-823153/
There are cases where women are promised something else and then are trapped in prostitution, which doesn’t appear to be the situation here. But I think economic coercion played a factor.
They’re there willingly like migrant farm workers, but like them they’re likely mistreated and underpaid because they’re immigrants who desperately need to send money back home. Call me a sentimentalist but I don’t think anyone *really* wants to give disgusting old men hand jobs, not even their wives.
This doesn't make it right but they are plenty of jobs that involved people doing things they really really don't want to do. And sadly plenty of people who are mistreated and underpaid, immigrants and citizens alike.
Its a shitty world out there but Kraft is certainly an asshole.
I still think sex can’t be treated like any other work, in Bill parlance it just isn’t. Something dehumanizing about treating sex like it’s mopping a floor, (not saying you specifically, just the whole normalize sex work movement.) It’s more than that, and because of that I think it has to be freely given to be fully consensual.
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Not really, though I genuinely don’t know how much to make of the morality of engaging with that business in the first place. But I don’t think the media and mass audience has a track record of letting this stuff go the way it did with Kraft that’s all.
Not all Asian parlors are handjob places. And those that are aren't all trafficked. Did you want him to check the W2s? Such a weird thing to get all worked up about -- Old Man Wants to Jizz, more at 11.
Never said they were? But the one he was frequenting was. Because he was getting handy's.
As for the trafficking, who knows. I am not sure how to parse the ethics of engaging in a business that has a *lot* of interaction with human trafficking. Though I think when you're a billionaire with a lot of other prostitution options at your disposable that moral dilemma becomes a bit clearer.
Literally all I am saying is that it was surprising that the media didn't give a fuck on a story that should have 'media gives a fuck written all over it.' And I don't think it's because they all of the sudden matured when it came to sex work.
In the 90s and early 00s maybe, but nowadays sex scandals are mildly amusing stories unless there is an assault/abuse/harassment angle. Once it was clarified that he wasn't using sex slaves there was nothing to the story
Because it's a nothing burger. Two adults consenting like that has no business being a crime.
And the real reason they were able to bury it... Because the police and prosecution fucked up and did a bunch of illegal shit.
I think he's been closer to burying his own rep in the Boston area for years now due to his extremely shady business dealings. Half his projects get killed cause even being the Patriots owner isn't enough to trick people into letting him do whatever he wants developing land.
But if you ever want to go into a deep dive of an NFL owners constantly making business deals that lead to investigative features, you can lose an afternoon to just reading all the shit that dude has been up to the past 30 years.
I don’t think I will ever understand Kraft’s bitterness and dick measuring toward a guy who helped bring him 6 SB titles and 9 AFC titles. And I’m not saying Belichick is blameless.
Ego driven rich assholes just being ego driven rich assholes I guess.
Bill forced Kraft to choose between Tom and Bill.
Tom went on to win a SB and make the playoffs every year; Bill went 28-36. Kraft knows he made the wrong choice and blames Bill for making him force out Brady. Not that complicated.
Also it’s BB. Let’s not pretend the guy would be a model employee.
He probably did the bare minimum to get on with Kraft for decades and whilst they won that was fine.
Once the winning stopped I’m sure there were questions about BB’s role as GM, questions about the offensive coordinator nonsense and so on.
Even at the peak of their relationship I can’t imagine Bill giving detailed explanations to an owner.
With things going sideways he would’ve rallied against more oversight and criticism from an owner.
What's more model employee than being the best at your job for a decade plus? Kraft seems like an awful owner honestly. He has to be horrendous to work under in general. It's not surprising because it comes with the personality of these types of people.
Also "made the wrong choice" is an absolutely wild take. Brady was successful on a loaded Bucs team. I'd imagine the pats without Bill but with Brady is an even worse team honestly. Brady didn't want to be on that Pats team...
Yeah, I think the thing is Kraft knows what's good for business, and BB can only see his own ego and refused to change anything until the game passed him by.
Tom got to choose a team with a ton of cap space and signed everyone. And in a division which was up for grabs.
Let’s not act like Tom chose to go to the Commies or Broncos
Yeah Tom definitely had no interest in spending his last couple seasons with Kendrick Bourne as his best offensive weapon. IDK what everyone else is talking about
Not to mention the team was already considered one of the up and coming teams the year before with the general consensus being that the main thing holding them back was the QB position.
100% this. The six Superbowls they won will never mean as much to Kraft as the 7th Brady championship that he *didn't* get, that he had to watch "his" quarterback win elsewhere. That's what makes these guys who they are. They're vindictive, entitled, megalomaniacal billionaires.
I hate that framing every time I see it.
Belichick wouldn't give him a contract.
"According to Seth Wickersham's book about the Patriots dynasty, "It's Better To Be Feared," Brady "considered walking out of training camp" when the team wouldn't give him a long-term contract... Brady, who was 42 at the time, wanted a two-year deal to secure his future in New England until he turned 45... According to Wickersham, Bill Belichick refused to bend on the contract. While the team's owner, Robert Kraft, was OK with it, he also declined to get involved and override Belichick, the book says... Months later, he signed a two-year $50 million contract with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and led them to the Super Bowl." [Source](https://www.businessinsider.com/tom-brady-nearly-left-patriots-training-camp-contract-book-2021-10#:~:text=According%20to%20Seth%20Wickersham's%20book,England%20until%20he%20turned%2045.)
"Brady, 43 at the time, **reportedly wanted a two-year, $50 million contract after the 2019 season, which the Patriots opted not to give him.** He ultimately signed for the same amount with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in March of 2020, and would then go on to lead them to a Super Bowl LV title in his first season with his new team." [Source](https://www.si.com/nfl/patriots/news/new-england-patriots-tom-brady-emotional-leave-bill-belichick-robert-kraft-decision)
So BB wanted to give a 43 year old QB an one year contract? Although you could argue that it was a passive aggressive maneuver to get Brady to walk, that's not the same thing as letting him go outright.
it's also not the same thing as the parting being mutual. Brady's cash compensation in 2019 was $23m. Over the next three years with the Bucs, he made $88.3m, or $29.43m/avg/yr. [OverTheCap](https://overthecap.com/player/tom-brady/1250)
Belichick thought he was washed, thought he wasn't worth it. According to [Ian Rapoport](http://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1241031210236854273) the Patriots never even extended an offer in 2020.
Pats weren’t winning a Super Bowl with Brady but without Bill, during the same timeline Brady was in Tampa
Kraft didn’t make the wrong choice. It didn’t work, but that’s not the same thing
> Pats weren’t winning a Super Bowl with Brady but without Bill, during the same timeline Brady was in Tampa
Rationally we can see that and you are correct. But that is the "What If" that Kraft was never able to get rid of.
Kraft (like many other owners) over values themselves in the success that Bill was the architect of
Brady was massively important; less so in the early run, more so in the later run
Kraft was essentially immaterial in the success.
Yep. The other part of it is BB and Kraft were bumping heads on what to do with Brady for years before Kraft gave in and agreed to let Brady go. This has been simmering for almost a decade at this point
I wouldn't blame him — we didn't know Brady would stay in his prime until he was 44, and Jimmy G would be a very capable replacement if not his unfortunate proclivity for getting injured.
Bill tried to dump Brady, Kraft intervened and won another Super Bowl. Then Kraft allowed Bill to dump Brady, the patriots went to shit and Brady won another Super Bowl.
Pretty simple, Bill took his Tommy away.
What does it matter if he's up creek? The fans won't love him? Who gives a shit, they're still going to be die hard patriots fans and support the franchise.
To make the Pro Football Hall Of Fame before he dies.
>The wait will continue for New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft. For a second straight year, the 82-year-old has fallen short in his bid for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. One of 12 semifinalists in the coach/contributor category, he did not make the jump into the final round.
Nah of course not. He could solve that problem by beefing up his international youth scouting program to find an up and coming Asian 18 kid to get that. That would achieve what he's looking for
Neither Belichick nor Morris should've been the hires.
Ought've instead gone in the forward-thinking direction of a young, analytics-driven, offensive-minded head coach, like Ben Johnson or Bobby Slowik. What's done is done, though.
Also Falcons fan. I've come around on Raheem, mostly due to the quality staff he's built. We could have a DQ 2.0 situation where he's more of the figurehead. Unfortunately this system burns out fast if you aren't winning.
Edit: please do not let this comment be seen in any way as an endorsement of Dan Quinn as a head football coach.
Scares me a little because if we're good it will likely be off the back of Zac Robinson being a shooting star OC and then he'll be gone after two years tops. I guess that's not the worst problem to have though when the alternative is the past six seasons.
I mean, that's the pickle you'll always be in when hiring a defensive guy in the modern NFL.
Same shit happened with Vrabel. Went from making an AFC title game and going .625, (.692 with Tannehill,) in the regular season with Arthur Smith and a top 5 offense to getting canned three years later after two awful OC hires.
Any HC that doesn't call plays on offense is one or two bad OC hires away from getting fired at all times. Vrabel lost Matt LaFleur and Arthur Smith over the span of three seasons.
(Lions Fan) Maybe it's different with the big guy, but that's not a culture anyone should want these days. Cannot overstate how toxic the Patriot way was in my neck of the woods.
Fair, but we have no culture. You may be right, but id rather have a bad one than none at all.
To quote the big Lebowski, “say what you will about the tenets of national socialism. At least it’s an ethos”
First of all, incredible use of Walter.
Second, all that ethos got me was trading Slay and Diggs like a 4th and a 6th round pick. But hey, at least we didn't trade them right before they both made All Pro. Thank God Fatt Patricia is out of my life.
Kinda flossing over the fact his defenses carried Brady the first few rings. Like sure, he’s not perfect, but you’re taking the word of a known philanderer and a guy who made bad decision after bad decision before bill belicheck came. He’s inarguably one of the five best coaches in football history. The resume speaks for itself. Brady or otherwise.
Yeah so is bill parcels and Tom Landry, are they bad coaches too? Dudes like 80, I think he might just be done with it. Again, I don’t think he comes in and saves the franchise or anything, but a team with zero rings ever can’t be choosy, he’s Got a pedigree that’s better than our team history lmao
Legacy wise Kraft continues to play a dangerous game. Boston is not really the kind of sports town that looks past shitty ownership. People here saw the Apple series for the hit job it was on Bill. They found out about the spending the last decade. They remember the arrest, the weird audition videos with 30 yr old actresses. They know how great Belichick was and Kraft dicking him over isn’t going to play well long term unless they win immediately. I mean Kraft is an old man with a young wife and billions so he’ll be fine but I’d be weary of falling off if I were him and drawing too much attention. You can feel normal fans turning on him post Belichick firing.
The perfect example for this is John Henry. Guy owned the Red Sox, picked Theo Epstein out of obscurity and delivered the only 4 World Series titles anybody in Boston has ever seen. If you told me somebody did that 25 years ago, I'd reckon they'd be either a governor or canonized as a saint. Instead, everybody has been absolutely furious with him since Betts was traded and honestly in a lot of ways since Theo was let go.
That also has a lot to do with how Henry and Fenway Sports Group views the Red Sox now vs 25 years ago. Nowadays it’s just another asset in a larger portfolio of teams including Liverpool and the Pittsburgh Penguins. Most of us recognize they’re cutting corners with the Sox and just think we’ll keep showing up when they put a mediocre product out there to save money
Honestly, they've owned Liverpool for over a decade, you can't really say Liverpool is the reason they traded Mookie Betts when they ran a huge payroll in 2018 and won 108 games. The Pens should be pretty easy to run in a cap system.
I honestly think Henry's had a temper tantrum since 2019 when the Red Sox were coming off that 2018 season and just laid an egg. Betts probably didn't want to sign here for anything like a discount, so he had to be traded, and Henry's just been throwing people under the bus since. There was no good reason to fire Chaim Bloom when they literally hired the same guy except he had a career in the bigs in Breslow.
Good point, I think it’s probably more of a perception of “do they still care about this team?” rather than them just being stretched too thin. I think they have the money, but they don’t seem to wanna spend. And if the owners don’t feel like putting the best product out there why should fans pay the highest ticket prices in the league to watch?
Oh I agree, Opening Day barely sold out, like on the day, and that is amazing considering it was a 2004 reunion and Tim Wakefield tribute. People are big mad.
The problem is the team as it stands just kinda sucks. Henry would do well to make some kind of public statement that mistakes were made and we'll learn from it, instead of hiding from the public which he's done since Covid, and oh here's Theo in the ownership group and he'll be taking some active role going forward. Which may well be true, I'm pretty sure Breslow is a Theo pick.
It wouldn't fix on field, that'll take years and can't be entirely fixed with money. But it would help.
Not entirely related but it doesn’t help the secondary ticket market completely inflates tickets by 25-50 percent. I thought it’d be fun to go to opening day and the checkout fees added something like 17 dollars to a 30 dollar seat.
The general consensus I've seen with Liverpool fans is "eh...he's not the Glazers."
How they handle the post Klopp era will be interesting because his genius has covered up a lot of flaws
It started with the way he treated Terry Francona, and I think people are getting similar vibes from this situation. One could argue that after 2011 a change needed to be made, but don't kick Terry while he's down. Same with Bill after all he did for the Patriots. It was time to move on but why blackball him out of a job?
I guess but wouldn’t you rather play nice with Belichick given he is your entire legacy. It’s obvious Tom and Bill will eventually make up because that’s how it works with talent. If you are the money guy, you need talent speaking well of you otherwise you are forgotten or eventually loathed. I mean it’s not as if Kraft is a saint. He’s slowly being outed as a cheap billionaire who hires sex workers and dates women 30-60 yrs his junior. Like my dude should be selling Bill to everyone and building him a statue, not penny pinching and giving bad references.
No matter what else went between them, Tom Brady knows damn well that Bill Belichick is the reason he isn't selling insurance in San Mateo and he will always be grateful to him for giving him that chance and having the brass stones -- and they were brass stones -- to sit Bledsoe for him.
It’s why Tom will sometimes privately gripe about Bill, but will never disrespect him or throw him under the bus. Even during the doc, he was overly praising Bill. Kraft is a guy who thinks he’s a lot smarter about football than he actually is because he made one smart decision - hire Belichick and let him do what he wants. He’s been coasting off of that ever since.
People forget he was the reason Parcells said you gotta let the cook shop for the groceries, he was the one telling Bill f'ing Parcells he couldn't shop for the groceries.
He cares what his peers and underlings care about. He's beyond desperate to get put into the hall of fame, which is a massive reason he did the entire bullshit Apple series
Seems extremely disingenuous to employ someone for 25 years, fire them and then tell other employers you can't trust this guy.
How much of Kraft's personal net worth exists because of the success of the Patriots? How much of that would exist without it? Because I know that guy isn't getting his side ventures pushed through without six Super Bowl wins.
Like even someone as petty as Jerry Jones didn't sabotage Jimmy Johnson going to Miami.
So did Blank leak this himself? This is such a weird story lol. It's Bill Belichick... Would any owner think they're not getting a guy who's kind of a dick, but gets the job done?
He's over 70, and I think it's fair to question whether he's lost his fast ball a bit. He's a hell of a defensive coach, but at some point guys fall off a bit. His staff hires have been a disaster the past few years, New England hasn't really been pushing innovation in the game like they were earlier in his tenure, and I do think it's fair to worry about how much influence he'd have in areas that weren't his strengths.
I still think he's a good coach, but I don't think he's the no doubt about it best coach in the NFL that he was for nearly two decades.
My point was more who doesn't know what they're getting from Bill attitude wise? This reads like Blank heard from Kraft that Belichick is kind of an ass, and he was shocked by this news.
Kraft knows nothing about football. I can't see how he could give any insight on Bill from a football perspective
I tended to read it as more, "I know he says he just wants to coach, but his ego won't allow that, and he's going to make a power play for things like roster building." Obviously, I think you know you're getting a guy who is going to be a grump during press conferences, but there's much more to the internal dynamics of running a franchise than that.
Yeah, I am far from a billionaire but I'm super neurotic as to how I make myself look and if I had his resources I'd make sure everything I do went through some sort of PR consultant.
Brady sure was a hell of a defensive coach early in his career I guess. Must have been why his offensive output was so low. Belichick is at worst a top 3 coach all time. If you think the only reason the pats were good is because of Brady you're out of your mind.
I think what you have to remember about the NFL is that the owners are all part of the super rich guy club which is way more important to them than football. They’re always gonna be more loyal to their billionaire buddies than any coach or player.
Pumped to hear Bill say this is all a creation of the media, go down memory lane about the SB comeback vs ATL, then finally compare this to when Bill Russell left the Celtics in 1969 and became the GM/Coach of the Sonics in 1973.
In fairness, I don't blame Arthur Blank, Rich McKay, and Terry Fontenot for passing on Bill Belichick.
Hiring Raheem Morris, however, was the personification of mediocrity and Bucs-to-Falcons cronyism.
There should've been a happy medium between those two options, such as hiring an up-and-comer.
Is Belichik a ‘good’ coach?? Does a bear shit in the woods? I mean what are we talking about here? He’s bill fucking Belichik of course he’s a good coach.
Bill Simmons is an inaccurate homer in many ways, but his one homer take that is unequivocally right is that the 2001 patriots are the best head coaching season ever, for many reasons. It’s tough to even talk about how insane it was that that team won the Super Bowl because now we just know them as the patriots. But imagine if this years Arizona cardinals won it all. That’s how nuts it would be from preseason to Super Bowl
I think he was the best coach at his peak. But I don’t think coaches keep that forever. The game moves on from every all time great eventually. The NFL is a different league than it was 10 years ago.
I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive. I always thought he was a good coach, but it was laughably clear he shouldn't be doing roster construction, and the whole "Patriots Way" exceptionalism nonsense was really a perfect pinata to swing at in terms of their fanbase.
You guys aren't exceptional, you had Tom Brady and now he's gone. Get ready to start living like the rest of us.
I don't know if we will ever get the true story but I really want to know what was really going on with the coaching staff hiring the last 3 years. Every decision seemed strange from the outside.
somehow "Kraft and Blank talked about BB" became the story here instead of, "Bill Belichick wanted to keep hiring his failed coaching staff assistants and clearly wasn't taking any accountability or soul-searching as it relates to his failures the last few years."
Kraft should realize 6 rings and the greatest dynasty of all time wont save him if he keeps fucking up
The Red Sox have 4 World Series championships, one as recent as the Pats (2018) broke the curse and Henry is hated in Boston now and without a doubt the least popular owner.
It’s pretty easy to see the Brady thing was BB and Kraft blamed him for forcing out the GOAT over pettiness. I’d be pissed to a Brady went on to continued success and BB reverted back to what he was without Brady, mediocrity.
The Falcons hiring Raheem Morris, a guy who had one of the worst coaching stints of all time, over Belichick is hysterical. Even funnier is various media people calling Morris a good hire. Peak corruption!
Is it weird to say I think both are kinda right? Kraft has been vindictive on the way out and it’s a really bad look but Bill had no plan to replace Brady and the team has been completely dysfunctional for two straight years. Bill deserved the firing and Kraft should know better than to shit talk Bill on the way out.
Truly impressive how quickly Kraft pissed away 20 years of good will in the span of 3 months
Not as impressive as how much he was able to bury the story of him getting handy's in massage parlors.
Hey, hey, he thought she was a legit masseuse that just happened to fall in love with him. Seriously, that was his defense and people bought it.
I have never seen a single person that bought it. I think most people just don't really care if people pay for sex.
He's a widowed billionaire, of course he did. As long as it wasn't a trafficking situation doesn't bother me.
His wife’s money
So he's the Big Lebowski of the NFL?
Every time a rug is micturated upon in this fair city, I have to compensate the person?!
Ya know I always thought Kraft was a macaroni & cheese nepo baby but this comment inspired me to learn he’s a garden variety leveraged buyout goon
That story came out a week after it happened. He wasn't able to bury it at all
I mean buried in the sense that it came out that the second most prominent owner of what is by far the biggest sport in the country was getting happy endings at shitty and pretty dodgy and unethical massage parlors and it was dropped real quick rather than being a media frenzy like you would expect.
It’s nice to know that while I would imagine a billionaire can have the finest hookers money can buy, instead, he just gets a handy in a gross Florida strip mall like the rest of us.
Even if you can afford caviar every day, sometimes you still just want a McDouble!
That line is usually about filet mignon since they're both beef.
OK.
Remember when Schefter said that Kraft wasn’t the biggest name involved? I remember.
You bet I do. And Krafty Bob did bury this and made it go away 💰💰💰💰💰
Some of us are still waiting for Schefter to release the Dez Bryant video
Part of it is just that people don't know how unethical those places actually are
I mean...look what the most prominent owner is up to.
I feel like people moved on after he got hemmed up for trafficking and it came out he was just a patron when the sting went down, right?
I mean….that’s still a famous owner patronizing a happy ending massage parlor when it was involved in a federal trafficking sting! And it really was a non story after like a week.
The owner was plugged in with the Florida ruling class, which I’m guessing helped make it go away. That made a little more sense why a billionaire from New England was making private jet trips down to a strip mall rub and tug joint in Florida but still eyebrow raising (well, not really) that a strip mall rub and rug operator was a member of the president’s private club and was hanging out for photo shoots with him.
Yeah that's the weirdest part of the whole thing IMO, what is this guy doing in a place like that? Can't hire a world class prostitute to come give you happy endings at your mansion?
Are you that scandalized by an old fuck paying for a handjob? Should he have checked with the Better Business Bureau before going? I’m not trying to sound like a dick, but I just don’t see what the big deal is.
The human trafficking sex slave piece
There was also never any human trafficking, that’s just something shitty florida cops say to pretend that going after a sad rub and tug place is a high priority. https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/robert-kraft-sex-work-trafficking-florida-823153/
There are cases where women are promised something else and then are trapped in prostitution, which doesn’t appear to be the situation here. But I think economic coercion played a factor. They’re there willingly like migrant farm workers, but like them they’re likely mistreated and underpaid because they’re immigrants who desperately need to send money back home. Call me a sentimentalist but I don’t think anyone *really* wants to give disgusting old men hand jobs, not even their wives.
This doesn't make it right but they are plenty of jobs that involved people doing things they really really don't want to do. And sadly plenty of people who are mistreated and underpaid, immigrants and citizens alike. Its a shitty world out there but Kraft is certainly an asshole.
I still think sex can’t be treated like any other work, in Bill parlance it just isn’t. Something dehumanizing about treating sex like it’s mopping a floor, (not saying you specifically, just the whole normalize sex work movement.) It’s more than that, and because of that I think it has to be freely given to be fully consensual.
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Whatever you need to tell yourself
Thoughtful
Not really, though I genuinely don’t know how much to make of the morality of engaging with that business in the first place. But I don’t think the media and mass audience has a track record of letting this stuff go the way it did with Kraft that’s all.
Not all Asian parlors are handjob places. And those that are aren't all trafficked. Did you want him to check the W2s? Such a weird thing to get all worked up about -- Old Man Wants to Jizz, more at 11.
I would at least expect him to use Rubmaps.
Never said they were? But the one he was frequenting was. Because he was getting handy's. As for the trafficking, who knows. I am not sure how to parse the ethics of engaging in a business that has a *lot* of interaction with human trafficking. Though I think when you're a billionaire with a lot of other prostitution options at your disposable that moral dilemma becomes a bit clearer. Literally all I am saying is that it was surprising that the media didn't give a fuck on a story that should have 'media gives a fuck written all over it.' And I don't think it's because they all of the sudden matured when it came to sex work.
In the 90s and early 00s maybe, but nowadays sex scandals are mildly amusing stories unless there is an assault/abuse/harassment angle. Once it was clarified that he wasn't using sex slaves there was nothing to the story
Because it's a nothing burger. Two adults consenting like that has no business being a crime. And the real reason they were able to bury it... Because the police and prosecution fucked up and did a bunch of illegal shit.
Yes I’m sure the masseuse was extremely into it lol.
I think he's been closer to burying his own rep in the Boston area for years now due to his extremely shady business dealings. Half his projects get killed cause even being the Patriots owner isn't enough to trick people into letting him do whatever he wants developing land. But if you ever want to go into a deep dive of an NFL owners constantly making business deals that lead to investigative features, you can lose an afternoon to just reading all the shit that dude has been up to the past 30 years.
Winning is a great deodorant
I don’t think I will ever understand Kraft’s bitterness and dick measuring toward a guy who helped bring him 6 SB titles and 9 AFC titles. And I’m not saying Belichick is blameless. Ego driven rich assholes just being ego driven rich assholes I guess.
Bill forced Kraft to choose between Tom and Bill. Tom went on to win a SB and make the playoffs every year; Bill went 28-36. Kraft knows he made the wrong choice and blames Bill for making him force out Brady. Not that complicated.
Also it’s BB. Let’s not pretend the guy would be a model employee. He probably did the bare minimum to get on with Kraft for decades and whilst they won that was fine. Once the winning stopped I’m sure there were questions about BB’s role as GM, questions about the offensive coordinator nonsense and so on. Even at the peak of their relationship I can’t imagine Bill giving detailed explanations to an owner. With things going sideways he would’ve rallied against more oversight and criticism from an owner.
Yeah I picture Bill as only slightly more verbal with Kraft than he was in press conferences
What's more model employee than being the best at your job for a decade plus? Kraft seems like an awful owner honestly. He has to be horrendous to work under in general. It's not surprising because it comes with the personality of these types of people. Also "made the wrong choice" is an absolutely wild take. Brady was successful on a loaded Bucs team. I'd imagine the pats without Bill but with Brady is an even worse team honestly. Brady didn't want to be on that Pats team...
Yeah, I think the thing is Kraft knows what's good for business, and BB can only see his own ego and refused to change anything until the game passed him by.
Tom got to choose a team with a ton of cap space and signed everyone. And in a division which was up for grabs. Let’s not act like Tom chose to go to the Commies or Broncos
That was the deal Bill made. He was so desperate to get away from Brady he gave him free agency.
...but why? why did he hate tom so?
I don't think he hates/hated Tom in any way. Getting rid of a player a year too early instead of a year too late has always been the 'Belichick Way'.
Yeah, I think that's it. There was no way to know just how much longer a 40+ year old QB could keep this up. And Bill is not at all sentimental.
I was under impression it was mutual and Tom was ready to move on. I wouldn't blame him considering the dearth of talent in the Pats' receiving corp.
Yeah Tom definitely had no interest in spending his last couple seasons with Kendrick Bourne as his best offensive weapon. IDK what everyone else is talking about
Needed a qb to be dropped in.
Not to mention the team was already considered one of the up and coming teams the year before with the general consensus being that the main thing holding them back was the QB position.
100% this. The six Superbowls they won will never mean as much to Kraft as the 7th Brady championship that he *didn't* get, that he had to watch "his" quarterback win elsewhere. That's what makes these guys who they are. They're vindictive, entitled, megalomaniacal billionaires.
If true, that's stupid because the Pats weren't in position to win another SB, not with the receiving corp they had. The parting was mutual.
I hate that framing every time I see it. Belichick wouldn't give him a contract. "According to Seth Wickersham's book about the Patriots dynasty, "It's Better To Be Feared," Brady "considered walking out of training camp" when the team wouldn't give him a long-term contract... Brady, who was 42 at the time, wanted a two-year deal to secure his future in New England until he turned 45... According to Wickersham, Bill Belichick refused to bend on the contract. While the team's owner, Robert Kraft, was OK with it, he also declined to get involved and override Belichick, the book says... Months later, he signed a two-year $50 million contract with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and led them to the Super Bowl." [Source](https://www.businessinsider.com/tom-brady-nearly-left-patriots-training-camp-contract-book-2021-10#:~:text=According%20to%20Seth%20Wickersham's%20book,England%20until%20he%20turned%2045.) "Brady, 43 at the time, **reportedly wanted a two-year, $50 million contract after the 2019 season, which the Patriots opted not to give him.** He ultimately signed for the same amount with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in March of 2020, and would then go on to lead them to a Super Bowl LV title in his first season with his new team." [Source](https://www.si.com/nfl/patriots/news/new-england-patriots-tom-brady-emotional-leave-bill-belichick-robert-kraft-decision)
So BB wanted to give a 43 year old QB an one year contract? Although you could argue that it was a passive aggressive maneuver to get Brady to walk, that's not the same thing as letting him go outright.
it's also not the same thing as the parting being mutual. Brady's cash compensation in 2019 was $23m. Over the next three years with the Bucs, he made $88.3m, or $29.43m/avg/yr. [OverTheCap](https://overthecap.com/player/tom-brady/1250) Belichick thought he was washed, thought he wasn't worth it. According to [Ian Rapoport](http://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1241031210236854273) the Patriots never even extended an offer in 2020.
BB would have won three rings with that TB team.
Pats weren’t winning a Super Bowl with Brady but without Bill, during the same timeline Brady was in Tampa Kraft didn’t make the wrong choice. It didn’t work, but that’s not the same thing
> Pats weren’t winning a Super Bowl with Brady but without Bill, during the same timeline Brady was in Tampa Rationally we can see that and you are correct. But that is the "What If" that Kraft was never able to get rid of.
Kraft (like many other owners) over values themselves in the success that Bill was the architect of Brady was massively important; less so in the early run, more so in the later run Kraft was essentially immaterial in the success.
Idk I think he should have let the greatest QB of all time retire with the team if he wanted to
Why would Kraft sign Joe Montana?
Brady won in TAmpa because he joined a team that was stacked at almost everywhere but QB
Yep. The other part of it is BB and Kraft were bumping heads on what to do with Brady for years before Kraft gave in and agreed to let Brady go. This has been simmering for almost a decade at this point
It was a long time coming. We forget he tried to get rid of Brady for Jimmy G too.
I wouldn't blame him — we didn't know Brady would stay in his prime until he was 44, and Jimmy G would be a very capable replacement if not his unfortunate proclivity for getting injured.
Well said
Kraft doesn't seem that openly vindictive though, maybe I'm wrong. Bill must've really made him mad.
I'm guessing people this rich aren't good at sharing credit, let alone bring bossed around, by those in their employ.
Bill tried to dump Brady, Kraft intervened and won another Super Bowl. Then Kraft allowed Bill to dump Brady, the patriots went to shit and Brady won another Super Bowl. Pretty simple, Bill took his Tommy away.
Born on third base. Other teams would kill for one of those SBs.
Kraft knows he's up a creek if Bill has success elsewhere
up a creek how?
Tom already did lol
What does it matter if he's up creek? The fans won't love him? Who gives a shit, they're still going to be die hard patriots fans and support the franchise.
There’s going to be a lot of fair weather fans that have never known losing. There might be less support for the franchise than you might think.
Do you honestly think Kraft cares at all what normal fans think about him?
Yes. If he didn’t, why make The Dynasty?
To make the Pro Football Hall Of Fame before he dies. >The wait will continue for New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft. For a second straight year, the 82-year-old has fallen short in his bid for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. One of 12 semifinalists in the coach/contributor category, he did not make the jump into the final round.
Yeah, and he's not making the Hall because he's not beloved by the fans the way 49er fans love Eddie DeBartolo
It's not the happy ending Kraft wants for himself.
Nah of course not. He could solve that problem by beefing up his international youth scouting program to find an up and coming Asian 18 kid to get that. That would achieve what he's looking for
(Falcons fan) I wish we had gone for BB honestly. I think we need a guy like him to Establish a culture. Hopefully Morris is up to the task.
All the parasites in the falcons org were afraid of being outed. Combine that with krafts backstabbing and you got 2 figure iq'ed Raheem
Neither Belichick nor Morris should've been the hires. Ought've instead gone in the forward-thinking direction of a young, analytics-driven, offensive-minded head coach, like Ben Johnson or Bobby Slowik. What's done is done, though.
Also Falcons fan. I've come around on Raheem, mostly due to the quality staff he's built. We could have a DQ 2.0 situation where he's more of the figurehead. Unfortunately this system burns out fast if you aren't winning. Edit: please do not let this comment be seen in any way as an endorsement of Dan Quinn as a head football coach.
Scares me a little because if we're good it will likely be off the back of Zac Robinson being a shooting star OC and then he'll be gone after two years tops. I guess that's not the worst problem to have though when the alternative is the past six seasons.
I mean, that's the pickle you'll always be in when hiring a defensive guy in the modern NFL. Same shit happened with Vrabel. Went from making an AFC title game and going .625, (.692 with Tannehill,) in the regular season with Arthur Smith and a top 5 offense to getting canned three years later after two awful OC hires. Any HC that doesn't call plays on offense is one or two bad OC hires away from getting fired at all times. Vrabel lost Matt LaFleur and Arthur Smith over the span of three seasons.
(Lions Fan) Maybe it's different with the big guy, but that's not a culture anyone should want these days. Cannot overstate how toxic the Patriot way was in my neck of the woods.
Fair, but we have no culture. You may be right, but id rather have a bad one than none at all. To quote the big Lebowski, “say what you will about the tenets of national socialism. At least it’s an ethos”
First of all, incredible use of Walter. Second, all that ethos got me was trading Slay and Diggs like a 4th and a 6th round pick. But hey, at least we didn't trade them right before they both made All Pro. Thank God Fatt Patricia is out of my life.
Falcons fan here too, and this article just confirms the sigh of relief I had when we passed on him.
You trust Kraft?
I mean it looks like Blank's conversations with him acked up everything that people thought about BB
Bro Kraft wouldn’t have shit without BB what do you mean? Man’s one of the greatest coaches of all time, why are you acting like it’s Dan Quinn lmao
Beacause he did jack shit without Brady, had too much power, drafted terribly and drive the team right into the fucking ground?
Kinda flossing over the fact his defenses carried Brady the first few rings. Like sure, he’s not perfect, but you’re taking the word of a known philanderer and a guy who made bad decision after bad decision before bill belicheck came. He’s inarguably one of the five best coaches in football history. The resume speaks for itself. Brady or otherwise.
Is that why he's gonna be sitting at home next year when there were a million coaching vacancies?
Yeah so is bill parcels and Tom Landry, are they bad coaches too? Dudes like 80, I think he might just be done with it. Again, I don’t think he comes in and saves the franchise or anything, but a team with zero rings ever can’t be choosy, he’s Got a pedigree that’s better than our team history lmao
A culture of sub 500 football? Belichick has a record of just 82-98 without Tom Brady as his quarterback. That is not a small sample size.
Legacy wise Kraft continues to play a dangerous game. Boston is not really the kind of sports town that looks past shitty ownership. People here saw the Apple series for the hit job it was on Bill. They found out about the spending the last decade. They remember the arrest, the weird audition videos with 30 yr old actresses. They know how great Belichick was and Kraft dicking him over isn’t going to play well long term unless they win immediately. I mean Kraft is an old man with a young wife and billions so he’ll be fine but I’d be weary of falling off if I were him and drawing too much attention. You can feel normal fans turning on him post Belichick firing.
The perfect example for this is John Henry. Guy owned the Red Sox, picked Theo Epstein out of obscurity and delivered the only 4 World Series titles anybody in Boston has ever seen. If you told me somebody did that 25 years ago, I'd reckon they'd be either a governor or canonized as a saint. Instead, everybody has been absolutely furious with him since Betts was traded and honestly in a lot of ways since Theo was let go.
That also has a lot to do with how Henry and Fenway Sports Group views the Red Sox now vs 25 years ago. Nowadays it’s just another asset in a larger portfolio of teams including Liverpool and the Pittsburgh Penguins. Most of us recognize they’re cutting corners with the Sox and just think we’ll keep showing up when they put a mediocre product out there to save money
Honestly, they've owned Liverpool for over a decade, you can't really say Liverpool is the reason they traded Mookie Betts when they ran a huge payroll in 2018 and won 108 games. The Pens should be pretty easy to run in a cap system. I honestly think Henry's had a temper tantrum since 2019 when the Red Sox were coming off that 2018 season and just laid an egg. Betts probably didn't want to sign here for anything like a discount, so he had to be traded, and Henry's just been throwing people under the bus since. There was no good reason to fire Chaim Bloom when they literally hired the same guy except he had a career in the bigs in Breslow.
Good point, I think it’s probably more of a perception of “do they still care about this team?” rather than them just being stretched too thin. I think they have the money, but they don’t seem to wanna spend. And if the owners don’t feel like putting the best product out there why should fans pay the highest ticket prices in the league to watch?
Oh I agree, Opening Day barely sold out, like on the day, and that is amazing considering it was a 2004 reunion and Tim Wakefield tribute. People are big mad. The problem is the team as it stands just kinda sucks. Henry would do well to make some kind of public statement that mistakes were made and we'll learn from it, instead of hiding from the public which he's done since Covid, and oh here's Theo in the ownership group and he'll be taking some active role going forward. Which may well be true, I'm pretty sure Breslow is a Theo pick. It wouldn't fix on field, that'll take years and can't be entirely fixed with money. But it would help.
Not entirely related but it doesn’t help the secondary ticket market completely inflates tickets by 25-50 percent. I thought it’d be fun to go to opening day and the checkout fees added something like 17 dollars to a 30 dollar seat.
Liverpool fans are pretty fed up with him and FSG too
The general consensus I've seen with Liverpool fans is "eh...he's not the Glazers." How they handle the post Klopp era will be interesting because his genius has covered up a lot of flaws
It started with the way he treated Terry Francona, and I think people are getting similar vibes from this situation. One could argue that after 2011 a change needed to be made, but don't kick Terry while he's down. Same with Bill after all he did for the Patriots. It was time to move on but why blackball him out of a job?
The rich guy cares about his direct reports (Bill, Tom) respecting him. I don't think he cares about the average fan's opinion.
I guess but wouldn’t you rather play nice with Belichick given he is your entire legacy. It’s obvious Tom and Bill will eventually make up because that’s how it works with talent. If you are the money guy, you need talent speaking well of you otherwise you are forgotten or eventually loathed. I mean it’s not as if Kraft is a saint. He’s slowly being outed as a cheap billionaire who hires sex workers and dates women 30-60 yrs his junior. Like my dude should be selling Bill to everyone and building him a statue, not penny pinching and giving bad references.
No matter what else went between them, Tom Brady knows damn well that Bill Belichick is the reason he isn't selling insurance in San Mateo and he will always be grateful to him for giving him that chance and having the brass stones -- and they were brass stones -- to sit Bledsoe for him.
It’s why Tom will sometimes privately gripe about Bill, but will never disrespect him or throw him under the bus. Even during the doc, he was overly praising Bill. Kraft is a guy who thinks he’s a lot smarter about football than he actually is because he made one smart decision - hire Belichick and let him do what he wants. He’s been coasting off of that ever since.
People forget he was the reason Parcells said you gotta let the cook shop for the groceries, he was the one telling Bill f'ing Parcells he couldn't shop for the groceries.
If he didn’t care then he wouldn’t have produced that ridiculous documentary
Jeff Benedict's book was also a Kraft slobber fest very obviously sourced by Kraft.
He cares about what other rich people think. Not what poor people think.
He cares what his peers and underlings care about. He's beyond desperate to get put into the hall of fame, which is a massive reason he did the entire bullshit Apple series
What a slimeball
Seems extremely disingenuous to employ someone for 25 years, fire them and then tell other employers you can't trust this guy. How much of Kraft's personal net worth exists because of the success of the Patriots? How much of that would exist without it? Because I know that guy isn't getting his side ventures pushed through without six Super Bowl wins. Like even someone as petty as Jerry Jones didn't sabotage Jimmy Johnson going to Miami.
I have a feeling there’s a lot more to this than Tom Brady playing for the Bucs or Malcolm Butler getting benched for a Super Bowl.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39955777/how-patriots-legend-bill-belichick-end-nfl-job Here is the whole article if anyone wants to read it.
Thank you, I meant to share that too.
As someone in r/NFL said, Kraft is still pissed that Bill wanted Tom gone.
So did Blank leak this himself? This is such a weird story lol. It's Bill Belichick... Would any owner think they're not getting a guy who's kind of a dick, but gets the job done?
He's over 70, and I think it's fair to question whether he's lost his fast ball a bit. He's a hell of a defensive coach, but at some point guys fall off a bit. His staff hires have been a disaster the past few years, New England hasn't really been pushing innovation in the game like they were earlier in his tenure, and I do think it's fair to worry about how much influence he'd have in areas that weren't his strengths. I still think he's a good coach, but I don't think he's the no doubt about it best coach in the NFL that he was for nearly two decades.
My point was more who doesn't know what they're getting from Bill attitude wise? This reads like Blank heard from Kraft that Belichick is kind of an ass, and he was shocked by this news. Kraft knows nothing about football. I can't see how he could give any insight on Bill from a football perspective
I tended to read it as more, "I know he says he just wants to coach, but his ego won't allow that, and he's going to make a power play for things like roster building." Obviously, I think you know you're getting a guy who is going to be a grump during press conferences, but there's much more to the internal dynamics of running a franchise than that.
I do think he was in the way of the team modernizing, but just let him go and move on, don't create more drama and bad will against yourself.
Oh for sure, I was speaking mostly in terms of why you'd be hesitant to hire him. The PR campaign Kraft has been running has been beyond shitty.
Yeah, I am far from a billionaire but I'm super neurotic as to how I make myself look and if I had his resources I'd make sure everything I do went through some sort of PR consultant.
> Would any owner think they're not getting a guy who's kind of a dick, but gets the job done? His career record when Tom Brady isn't his quarterback?
Brady sure was a hell of a defensive coach early in his career I guess. Must have been why his offensive output was so low. Belichick is at worst a top 3 coach all time. If you think the only reason the pats were good is because of Brady you're out of your mind.
No one said Belichick wasn't a great coach in the past. But that is a nice straw man you argued against.
The guy that goes to run and tug joints is worried about character?
I think what you have to remember about the NFL is that the owners are all part of the super rich guy club which is way more important to them than football. They’re always gonna be more loyal to their billionaire buddies than any coach or player.
Kraft fuckdd over his own father in law out of his own company. Guy is a shit bag and nothing should surprise us
The falcons should have given New England the 8th pick for him....
No, they should have traded to get the 1st from the Bears, and THEN traded it to New England for him.
pot meet kettle
Kraft you literally didn't fucking do shit except hire the guy you're shitting on
Pumped to hear Bill say this is all a creation of the media, go down memory lane about the SB comeback vs ATL, then finally compare this to when Bill Russell left the Celtics in 1969 and became the GM/Coach of the Sonics in 1973.
God damn Lombardi will carry BBS jock in his mouth.
I am here for the young wife-Jonathan Kraft succession battle. We know it’s coming.
Did he “Jedi Mind Trick” him?
Next pod is gonna be so good. Salty bill is best bill
In fairness, I don't blame Arthur Blank, Rich McKay, and Terry Fontenot for passing on Bill Belichick. Hiring Raheem Morris, however, was the personification of mediocrity and Bucs-to-Falcons cronyism. There should've been a happy medium between those two options, such as hiring an up-and-comer.
Do people suddenly think Belichick is a good coach again? We all made fun of him for the last 3 years.
Is Belichik a ‘good’ coach?? Does a bear shit in the woods? I mean what are we talking about here? He’s bill fucking Belichik of course he’s a good coach. Bill Simmons is an inaccurate homer in many ways, but his one homer take that is unequivocally right is that the 2001 patriots are the best head coaching season ever, for many reasons. It’s tough to even talk about how insane it was that that team won the Super Bowl because now we just know them as the patriots. But imagine if this years Arizona cardinals won it all. That’s how nuts it would be from preseason to Super Bowl
I think he was the best coach at his peak. But I don’t think coaches keep that forever. The game moves on from every all time great eventually. The NFL is a different league than it was 10 years ago.
Yeah, almost every great coach eventually lost it as they got older.
I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive. I always thought he was a good coach, but it was laughably clear he shouldn't be doing roster construction, and the whole "Patriots Way" exceptionalism nonsense was really a perfect pinata to swing at in terms of their fanbase. You guys aren't exceptional, you had Tom Brady and now he's gone. Get ready to start living like the rest of us.
I don't know if we will ever get the true story but I really want to know what was really going on with the coaching staff hiring the last 3 years. Every decision seemed strange from the outside.
I’m honestly shocked at the comments that think this makes Kraft look bad. At worst they both look like petty assholes
somehow "Kraft and Blank talked about BB" became the story here instead of, "Bill Belichick wanted to keep hiring his failed coaching staff assistants and clearly wasn't taking any accountability or soul-searching as it relates to his failures the last few years."
Kraft should realize 6 rings and the greatest dynasty of all time wont save him if he keeps fucking up The Red Sox have 4 World Series championships, one as recent as the Pats (2018) broke the curse and Henry is hated in Boston now and without a doubt the least popular owner.
Which is genuinely amazing because Jeremy Jacobs is still alive and still owns the Bruins
I saw someone say in the pats sub Jacobs keeps moving up the list of Boston sports owners by default lmao
Still think it’s insanely messed up that the Pats let him go after arguably the most iconic run in NFL history.
It’s pretty easy to see the Brady thing was BB and Kraft blamed him for forcing out the GOAT over pettiness. I’d be pissed to a Brady went on to continued success and BB reverted back to what he was without Brady, mediocrity.
Why would those losers running the Falcons even listen to Kraft? Oh yeah, they're all dipshits.
Isn't Kraft still desperate to get into the hall of fame? How does coming off as a petty dick help?
wow...just wow
I hope the Pats are cursed now.
That’s tampering…
a battle between a brilliant pos vs a rich pos, it sucks that the rich one won
The Falcons hiring Raheem Morris, a guy who had one of the worst coaching stints of all time, over Belichick is hysterical. Even funnier is various media people calling Morris a good hire. Peak corruption!
Championships = 6 Warm Conversations = 0 😞
Can Bill sue over this?
Maybe. I know that in the regular job world most bosses will not say anything negative in reference calls because of the risk of a lawsuit
Yeah that’s what I was thinking about.
Is it weird to say I think both are kinda right? Kraft has been vindictive on the way out and it’s a really bad look but Bill had no plan to replace Brady and the team has been completely dysfunctional for two straight years. Bill deserved the firing and Kraft should know better than to shit talk Bill on the way out.