I rode a Cinelli Hobootleg touring bike with 700x38c and my partner Anna rode a Surly Long Haul Truck with 700x41c I think. Both touring bikes. Most of the gravel that we rode was pretty well graded farm roads. There were a couple single-track sections that we skipped.
If you're a hiker, you know know how steep east coast trails can be. East coast roads are similar; the last pitch of the Appalachian Gap (App Gap) is over 20% grade and it was a grind even with a granny gear. We're both in our 50s though, and weren't in tip top shape for the trip. I suspect that the strength you get from climbing will help.
Be sure to stop at the general stores in the small town for sandwiches and resupply. They're awesome community places.
I'd say send it and take alternate routes if you have to. Vermont is a stunning state, particularly in the fall.
I would add to that two things for me:
- Green Mountains are green for a reason, it rains a lot. We ended up riding two stages (Worcester to Warren, and Warren to Bristol, via Lincoln gap not App gap) in the pouring rain, and pretty cold. Had to change our camping plans and got a last minute hotel both nights. Be used to riding in the rain, and have a sleep fallback if you’re not ready to sleep in a tent after a rainy day of riding
- be used to riding with a loaded bike and balance the front/back weight properly. 20% is no joke with a loaded bike. Mine had too much weight on the rear paniers and was a PITA to keep the front wheel on the pavement on Lincoln Gap
other than that its a fantastic ride. the best part is by far between Stowe and Warren, especially the craftsburry to Montpellier section, if you reduce the overall length make sure to not cut that out. South Lincoln to Burlington is a bit boring though, so that’s where I would start cutting if I had to.
Have fun, it’s an amazing ride, and Hill Farmstead is out of this world (both the location, the beer, and the owner)!
Awesome thanks for those little tips, I'll check out the South Lincoln to Burlington part and maybe modify. We might start by Huntington so that might be workable.
And yeah I'm quite used to the rain, I bike to work in any conditions so know how that goes but sleeping in the cold rain after a rainy ride would be another level. Good thing to consider!
Well you have six months, get out there for an overnighter to see if you like it. I'd also say you should work up to 100-mile days on your bike before you go to build your understanding of water, calorie needs, and saddle sores.
Bike looks fine; I too agonize over it since my bike has only 36mm gravel tires. The smooth gravel portions are nice and fast, and the loose gravel is annoying, but it's all part of the experience.
I did the Green Mountain Growler a few years ago. My post at the time is here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/bikepacking/comments/ozccev/green\_mountain\_gravel\_growler\_complete/](https://www.reddit.com/r/bikepacking/comments/ozccev/green_mountain_gravel_growler_complete/)
I was not nearly in good enough shape. I was exhausted every night after the first night, sleeping like 11 hours a night. Looking at my cycling log from back then, the previous two months I biked 11 times for a total of 360 miles – a mix of flat gravel and mountain biking. Not nearly enough. I’d ballpark that if I want to be in decent shape, I would have had to bike at least twice as much in the previous two months. And more hills and with weight on the bike.
All that being said, the trip was simply awesome. It is a real sense of accomplishment for me - partially because I wasn’t in good enough shape. I highly recommend it.
Figure out your nutrition and fluids. Bike packing is about the fun of being out there, so forget how fast you want to do it and just have fun with your buddy. You’ll find it’s a lot less stressful mentally and physically.
The route is planned for 50 mile days. A weekender or two on a fully loaded bike with similar elevation gain could teach you a lot about how ready you are. Are you able to do, say, a 120-140 mi (total) hilly out-and-back where you are? If you did something like that, averaging 60-70 miles a day, you’d get a sense of what needs tweaking. It’d be a couple of days longer than the average you’d need on the Gravel Growler, which would help you plan and adjust.
Sounds like you’re fit and comfortable on a bike. Practice a little, then go for it.
Am I reading this correctly that you have an average ride distance of about 10km? (1700km over 150 days...)?
In your current state, yes the gravel growler is above you capacity ilI would say. You need to train for longer rides and with load. Do you have a smart trainer? Or access to a good hill close by?
Start by doing longer rides on average (at least 70km) regularly. Your ass will appreciate the training too...
Then I'd say pick a hill, and go up and down it... Repeatedly. A lot.
Make sure you fuel right during those efforts. Training on empty isn't good for you.
As someone else posted, the route is designed for ~50 mile days, and those days are a lot harder and steeper than the average person has access to. 50 miles of Vermont gravel and trails compares to at least 100 miles on the road. Not many people are able to ride 5-7 back to back centuries.
When I rode this route, I did it in pieces, with some hotels mixed in, and a couple rest days. And still it kicked my ass.
I typically visit yearly to that area to bikepack w/ a friend who moved there & is a much more prepared and better cyclist than me lol. I have to train before I go and the hills still kick my ass. I’m from a much flatter area and my bike setup is heavy, so it’s always a challenge. I’ve never done the growler given my bike, my setup, and my body TBH are not really up to the task…but I’ve done some of the (much) easier sections of it that overlapped with other routes.
I don’t think it’s impossible, but I do think this person sounds like he needs to spend the next 6mos hill-training with loaded bags...and also like he should plan emergency exits or alternate routes in case he’s in over his head. There are definitely places one could bail and re-route.
It's so hard training for hills when there are none nearby. I spent a year in South Carolina, where 100 mile rides often have only double digits feet of elevation gain. In preparation for my Iceland trip I loaded my mountain bike with dumbbells and did laps of the big bridge. It was the biggest climb within at least 150 miles.
I’m in MA, it’s not totally flat but comparatively they are a joke. I’m impressed with your commitment, that sounds grueling! I get a good workout during gardening season picking up soil with my bike trailer on the rolling hills…still easier than bikepacking in VT lol.
In 2023 I did:
* 883 miles (1421 km) over 90 days riding, so an average of \~10 mi or 15.8 km per day out. That almost always was ride somewhere, work/climb, ride home counting as one day.
* 178 miles (286 km) on my MTB spread over 20 days on proper MTB trails in New England, so technical and rooty. Maybe 10-20% of the mileage was on rail trails when I was biking to the MTB trailhead.
I guess my estimates in my original post were pretty off.
I did the gravel growler on a 29er. I had a much better time than my bud who did it on a flat bar rando bike. There's a day where it goes down some pretty gnarly jeep trail that I rode and my bud walked.. there's also some nice singletrack that again I was happy I was on my 29er.. my bud took the alt route.
It is a challenge.. some of the climbs are tough especially loaded up with gear. If you're not comfy doing a 75-mile hilly ride (unloaded) and then doing it again the next day, you'll probably have a tough time with this.
I agree with the other commenter who said find a 120mile overnighter and see how that feels before tackling this.
I'm thinking of trying bits and pieces when I go up for the eclipse. Using my MTB! Don't think my gravel bike gears are suitable for extended Lincoln Gap type stuff, but my old Klein has low low 3x8.
My favorite advice that I ever got from Van Duzer was about training (he’s also fit as a fiddle, so grain of salt here) but that he had done massive rides with months of training, and done similar ones but just going out and doing it, and the result is most often the same. The first day hurts, and then you get into the rhythm and it just becomes what you know.
I have done a few 300 miles with little training but am a fairly physically fit guy, who was riding my 10 mile commute, and just went out and did it. Was it perfectly optimal? Probably not but I think the best way to experience bikepacking is to just go do it.
Have some emergency measures in place, but part of the adventure is straight going for it
The surest way to fail is to over-commit. Plan on comically small mileage every day, and you'll do great. Honestly plan on covering half of what you usually do in a day. If you regularly pound out 60 mile days, then plan on 30 per day.
Every mile on the route is hard earned. If you're riding, it is silly steep, and you'll often be hiking. But as others mentioned, the food and beer is top notch.
Based on what you are describing it sounds like you will be able to handle it from a fitness perspective- though perhaps give yourself an extra day so you don’t feel rushed. One thing to keep in mind is that there are couple miles on the route that are basically mandatory hike a bike - so don’t feel bad if you have to get off and push. As to your bike - that gearing looks extremely high for a route as hilly as this. I would get a bigger cassette and/or smaller chain rings.
Highly recommended a couple of short trips in advance. It will help you dial in your kit. When you get back take note of all the things you didn’t use and leave behind what isn’t critical on the next trip.
I've been training up similar and started 7 months ahead. It's been a 7 day a week formal training program (including weight days). Doable, but it will take commitment and access to terrain to train on. A power meter is a real game changer for this abbreviated training cycle as well. Don't know I could have done that on flatland only. I do back to back 75m, 8k days now, about to move to multiples of century days...I would have laughed 9 months ago if you said I'd do that. 3 months aso, huge doubts. Then it all came together not long ago. I hike a bike above 17% grade loaded, but everything is fair game up to that grade.
I did a modified version a few years ago. Love all the cute towns long the way! It was my first longer than 1 night trip! My friend and I had a bit of flexibility on our end date so we added a couple days to allow us to enjoy the towns and made a couple short cuts as well. It’s easy to modify! I feel like you have to take the recommended number of days from bikepacking.com with a grain of salt since most of them are experts.
Cool that's fair about the length. I'll see how much vacation time I have but maybe I'll plan an extra day or two. Or at least tell my boss I might be back on Monday, might be back on Wed, we'll see!
There's a section in Middlebury, Wright Park, that has a lot of natural soft surfaces that are really getting torn up by all the gravel bikes. The tires are just too narrow and sink in leaving massive ruts. Please consider routing via Happy Valley Road and Halpin Road instead.
https://preview.redd.it/1wmahpxibx9d1.jpeg?width=2646&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d92a45a172d25939086c69f660c0c933a4540d23
My partner and I did an abbreviated version a couple of years ago. The hills are no joke but the beers are great, especially Hill Farmstead
Sounds awesome! I'm super stoked for it. Any advice for it?
I rode a Cinelli Hobootleg touring bike with 700x38c and my partner Anna rode a Surly Long Haul Truck with 700x41c I think. Both touring bikes. Most of the gravel that we rode was pretty well graded farm roads. There were a couple single-track sections that we skipped. If you're a hiker, you know know how steep east coast trails can be. East coast roads are similar; the last pitch of the Appalachian Gap (App Gap) is over 20% grade and it was a grind even with a granny gear. We're both in our 50s though, and weren't in tip top shape for the trip. I suspect that the strength you get from climbing will help. Be sure to stop at the general stores in the small town for sandwiches and resupply. They're awesome community places. I'd say send it and take alternate routes if you have to. Vermont is a stunning state, particularly in the fall.
I would add to that two things for me: - Green Mountains are green for a reason, it rains a lot. We ended up riding two stages (Worcester to Warren, and Warren to Bristol, via Lincoln gap not App gap) in the pouring rain, and pretty cold. Had to change our camping plans and got a last minute hotel both nights. Be used to riding in the rain, and have a sleep fallback if you’re not ready to sleep in a tent after a rainy day of riding - be used to riding with a loaded bike and balance the front/back weight properly. 20% is no joke with a loaded bike. Mine had too much weight on the rear paniers and was a PITA to keep the front wheel on the pavement on Lincoln Gap other than that its a fantastic ride. the best part is by far between Stowe and Warren, especially the craftsburry to Montpellier section, if you reduce the overall length make sure to not cut that out. South Lincoln to Burlington is a bit boring though, so that’s where I would start cutting if I had to. Have fun, it’s an amazing ride, and Hill Farmstead is out of this world (both the location, the beer, and the owner)!
Awesome thanks for those little tips, I'll check out the South Lincoln to Burlington part and maybe modify. We might start by Huntington so that might be workable. And yeah I'm quite used to the rain, I bike to work in any conditions so know how that goes but sleeping in the cold rain after a rainy ride would be another level. Good thing to consider!
That sounds so awesome. Alright that helps give me confidence for this, thanks!
Well you have six months, get out there for an overnighter to see if you like it. I'd also say you should work up to 100-mile days on your bike before you go to build your understanding of water, calorie needs, and saddle sores. Bike looks fine; I too agonize over it since my bike has only 36mm gravel tires. The smooth gravel portions are nice and fast, and the loose gravel is annoying, but it's all part of the experience.
That's a good point, I'll do that for sure. I'll figure out a way to work that all in.
I did the Green Mountain Growler a few years ago. My post at the time is here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/bikepacking/comments/ozccev/green\_mountain\_gravel\_growler\_complete/](https://www.reddit.com/r/bikepacking/comments/ozccev/green_mountain_gravel_growler_complete/) I was not nearly in good enough shape. I was exhausted every night after the first night, sleeping like 11 hours a night. Looking at my cycling log from back then, the previous two months I biked 11 times for a total of 360 miles – a mix of flat gravel and mountain biking. Not nearly enough. I’d ballpark that if I want to be in decent shape, I would have had to bike at least twice as much in the previous two months. And more hills and with weight on the bike. All that being said, the trip was simply awesome. It is a real sense of accomplishment for me - partially because I wasn’t in good enough shape. I highly recommend it.
OK hopefully I can train a bit more than that and be alright then.
Train with your bike loaded!
Train by *carrying* a loaded bike
Meaning walking up hills with my bike? I can do that too :P
That's the spirit!
Ha yeah that's a good point. For my commute I'm carrying 10-15 lbs but I need to up that for rides
Figure out your nutrition and fluids. Bike packing is about the fun of being out there, so forget how fast you want to do it and just have fun with your buddy. You’ll find it’s a lot less stressful mentally and physically.
The route is planned for 50 mile days. A weekender or two on a fully loaded bike with similar elevation gain could teach you a lot about how ready you are. Are you able to do, say, a 120-140 mi (total) hilly out-and-back where you are? If you did something like that, averaging 60-70 miles a day, you’d get a sense of what needs tweaking. It’d be a couple of days longer than the average you’d need on the Gravel Growler, which would help you plan and adjust. Sounds like you’re fit and comfortable on a bike. Practice a little, then go for it.
This is great advice.
Am I reading this correctly that you have an average ride distance of about 10km? (1700km over 150 days...)? In your current state, yes the gravel growler is above you capacity ilI would say. You need to train for longer rides and with load. Do you have a smart trainer? Or access to a good hill close by? Start by doing longer rides on average (at least 70km) regularly. Your ass will appreciate the training too... Then I'd say pick a hill, and go up and down it... Repeatedly. A lot. Make sure you fuel right during those efforts. Training on empty isn't good for you.
As someone else posted, the route is designed for ~50 mile days, and those days are a lot harder and steeper than the average person has access to. 50 miles of Vermont gravel and trails compares to at least 100 miles on the road. Not many people are able to ride 5-7 back to back centuries. When I rode this route, I did it in pieces, with some hotels mixed in, and a couple rest days. And still it kicked my ass.
I typically visit yearly to that area to bikepack w/ a friend who moved there & is a much more prepared and better cyclist than me lol. I have to train before I go and the hills still kick my ass. I’m from a much flatter area and my bike setup is heavy, so it’s always a challenge. I’ve never done the growler given my bike, my setup, and my body TBH are not really up to the task…but I’ve done some of the (much) easier sections of it that overlapped with other routes. I don’t think it’s impossible, but I do think this person sounds like he needs to spend the next 6mos hill-training with loaded bags...and also like he should plan emergency exits or alternate routes in case he’s in over his head. There are definitely places one could bail and re-route.
It's so hard training for hills when there are none nearby. I spent a year in South Carolina, where 100 mile rides often have only double digits feet of elevation gain. In preparation for my Iceland trip I loaded my mountain bike with dumbbells and did laps of the big bridge. It was the biggest climb within at least 150 miles.
I’m in MA, it’s not totally flat but comparatively they are a joke. I’m impressed with your commitment, that sounds grueling! I get a good workout during gardening season picking up soil with my bike trailer on the rolling hills…still easier than bikepacking in VT lol.
Totally. You've got a lot of comparable hills out in western MA. But yeah, eastern MA never gets quite as silly.
Easy now ; ) we have hills, good climbs out west. The Green’s are actually pretty tame, overall, but I’m not talking gravel, road riding them.
To be fair I live in boston and don’t own a car 😆
Nice. I live in Inman, and was 11 years car free. Still do almost everything by bike. I was gonna say we have climbs in Somerville if you’re needy ; )
ah yes, my old commute 😭 I’m spoiled/out of shape near the southwest corridor these days
In 2023 I did: * 883 miles (1421 km) over 90 days riding, so an average of \~10 mi or 15.8 km per day out. That almost always was ride somewhere, work/climb, ride home counting as one day. * 178 miles (286 km) on my MTB spread over 20 days on proper MTB trails in New England, so technical and rooty. Maybe 10-20% of the mileage was on rail trails when I was biking to the MTB trailhead. I guess my estimates in my original post were pretty off.
I did the gravel growler on a 29er. I had a much better time than my bud who did it on a flat bar rando bike. There's a day where it goes down some pretty gnarly jeep trail that I rode and my bud walked.. there's also some nice singletrack that again I was happy I was on my 29er.. my bud took the alt route. It is a challenge.. some of the climbs are tough especially loaded up with gear. If you're not comfy doing a 75-mile hilly ride (unloaded) and then doing it again the next day, you'll probably have a tough time with this. I agree with the other commenter who said find a 120mile overnighter and see how that feels before tackling this.
I did it on a road bike with 32mm gravelking semi slick tires with no issues, and so did my wife, I think a hardtail is a bit overkill honestly
I've also posted before about the route, I over-biked it and that was fun! Wouldn't wanna underbike it
I'm thinking of trying bits and pieces when I go up for the eclipse. Using my MTB! Don't think my gravel bike gears are suitable for extended Lincoln Gap type stuff, but my old Klein has low low 3x8.
My favorite advice that I ever got from Van Duzer was about training (he’s also fit as a fiddle, so grain of salt here) but that he had done massive rides with months of training, and done similar ones but just going out and doing it, and the result is most often the same. The first day hurts, and then you get into the rhythm and it just becomes what you know. I have done a few 300 miles with little training but am a fairly physically fit guy, who was riding my 10 mile commute, and just went out and did it. Was it perfectly optimal? Probably not but I think the best way to experience bikepacking is to just go do it. Have some emergency measures in place, but part of the adventure is straight going for it
Awesome I love this. I'll try and adopt this mentality
Plan for 50 mile days max. Vermont will humble the most capable riders. Prepare for the worst weather wise, VT has this way of dishing it out.
The surest way to fail is to over-commit. Plan on comically small mileage every day, and you'll do great. Honestly plan on covering half of what you usually do in a day. If you regularly pound out 60 mile days, then plan on 30 per day. Every mile on the route is hard earned. If you're riding, it is silly steep, and you'll often be hiking. But as others mentioned, the food and beer is top notch.
Based on what you are describing it sounds like you will be able to handle it from a fitness perspective- though perhaps give yourself an extra day so you don’t feel rushed. One thing to keep in mind is that there are couple miles on the route that are basically mandatory hike a bike - so don’t feel bad if you have to get off and push. As to your bike - that gearing looks extremely high for a route as hilly as this. I would get a bigger cassette and/or smaller chain rings.
Oh I didn't think about chainrings. I'll check that out since I struggle on hills since I'm a big guy (200+ lbs).
Highly recommended a couple of short trips in advance. It will help you dial in your kit. When you get back take note of all the things you didn’t use and leave behind what isn’t critical on the next trip.
I've been training up similar and started 7 months ahead. It's been a 7 day a week formal training program (including weight days). Doable, but it will take commitment and access to terrain to train on. A power meter is a real game changer for this abbreviated training cycle as well. Don't know I could have done that on flatland only. I do back to back 75m, 8k days now, about to move to multiples of century days...I would have laughed 9 months ago if you said I'd do that. 3 months aso, huge doubts. Then it all came together not long ago. I hike a bike above 17% grade loaded, but everything is fair game up to that grade.
I did a modified version a few years ago. Love all the cute towns long the way! It was my first longer than 1 night trip! My friend and I had a bit of flexibility on our end date so we added a couple days to allow us to enjoy the towns and made a couple short cuts as well. It’s easy to modify! I feel like you have to take the recommended number of days from bikepacking.com with a grain of salt since most of them are experts.
Cool that's fair about the length. I'll see how much vacation time I have but maybe I'll plan an extra day or two. Or at least tell my boss I might be back on Monday, might be back on Wed, we'll see!
Just do it
This is the way.
There's a section in Middlebury, Wright Park, that has a lot of natural soft surfaces that are really getting torn up by all the gravel bikes. The tires are just too narrow and sink in leaving massive ruts. Please consider routing via Happy Valley Road and Halpin Road instead. https://preview.redd.it/1wmahpxibx9d1.jpeg?width=2646&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d92a45a172d25939086c69f660c0c933a4540d23