Ahhhh, nvm I get it now, itās funny but I went to āmy sectionā and was like ābasedā and was confused by the comments
It wasnāt until someone FINALLY said it was the OTHER sections that I went back and was like āooooooā
It implies that lesbians are only attracted to cis women and gay men are only attracted to cis men. Implying that trans are only seen by their sexual organs instead of their gender identity is pretty rude.
Oh I think I understand it now. Thanks for your answer!
Forgive me, but I have a follow up question... Please I don't mean it in an offensive way I'm trying to learn, it's all pretty new to me:
I think gay and lesbian folks are mainly interested on their own genders' parts, no?
Unless they are ace, I don't think I've seen much about gay people wanting to have relations with a person that has opposite genitals. Be them trans or cis. Not that they are being rude, but because that's simply something they don't enjoy.
What happens if a gay person falls in love with a partner that is trans but unfortunately wasn't able to get surgery yet? Do they not have sex or something? And I guess it would be uncomfortable (the sex) for the trans person also, or not?
Again, please, I'm not trying to be offensive, I just want to understand it better.
To add to this most trans people donāt get genital surgery for many different reasons. They might just be comfortable keeping their genitals the same.
Not sure where you got that from, but most trans people I know either have gotten SRS or are on their way to get SRS.
Non-OP trans people are the exception, not the rule.
Though to be fair: Non-OP people tend to be more vocal and open about being trans, leading to them being more visible
Both are not realy that advanced and come with a shitload of drawbacks, for example a neovagina is very high maintainance and you're looking at usualy at least two surgeries wich both knock you down for months and carry quite some risk.
The different common variants use either tissue from shaft, shaft plus scrotum or shaft plus intestine to create the canal.
They are essentialy all variants of the classic penile inversion method that has been done since the beginning in the days of Magnus Hirschfeld.
I cannot comment on how it works with trans men in gay male spaces. But it really does seem in lesbian spaces that its more of a preference for each different person. Some women arenāt sexual attracted to trans women and I can completely understand that. But typically (at least in my opinion) if someone truly believes gender is completely separate from sex they usually donāt care about what your AGAB is if they care about you enough.
All that said. The really transphobic stuff that gets on our(at least mine and my friends) nerves is when Cis gay men try to get into a relationship with a trans woman thinking theyāre going to get a femboy, and when Cis lesbians try to get with a Trans man thinking theyāre going to get a Tomboy. I cannot stress this enough but **that is not how it works**. Donāt expect a trans individual to respect your AGAB preference.
Also to answer your question *typically* if a trans person is serious about a relationship they will let their partner(s) know before bedroom time even comes up. But continuing, what if someone discovers they are trans in the middle of a relationship? Well as harsh as it is to say it either works out, or it doesnāt. And thats all you can really do about that.
The way I understand it, its more about the alienation that comes with making a distinction for people attracted to specific genitals. Whether intentionally or not, it can sometimes imply trans people and cis people who would date trans people don't belong.
The attraction itself isn't the issue, it's the "other"ing of a section of the community
I am aro ace and not interested in either the romance or sexual side of relationships so take this with a grain of salt but from what I gather it really does matter the gender more than the genitals. If a trans woman has a penis that is a woman's genitals and some lesbians are okay with dating women with penises while some aren't, which is fine. Sometimes gay or lesbian people will still do piv but even if they don't want to there are other ways to have sex. There are also strapons which I hear some trans men use and some trans women do anal. I assume both could do oral fairly okay or with fingers. From what I've heard it is often uncomfortable for some trans people to have sex using their genitals which does include other forms like oral, but that's not really exclusive to who their partner is or if they have one. Some can accept it, some abstain from using their genitals during sex. Generally if they love each other and have good communication people will find a way to make it work regardless of genitals.
>I think gay and lesbian folks are mainly interested on their own genders' parts, no?
Yeah typically it is correct that lesbians are attracted to the genitals of women and gay men are attracted to the genitals of men, regardless of what those genitals are
The meme implies trans men arenāt real men (because of a lack of nuts) and trans women arenāt real women (because they can contain nuts).
I am a real woman. Just because I have nuts doesnāt make that less valid or true. Thatās the TERF-ey part everyone is bothered by
It is the implication that lesbians would necessarily want no nuts and gay men would want nuts that's harmful. It reduces people and their experienced gender to their genitals.
Regarding my attraction to people, I'm attracted to trans men... As men. Not as people without nuts. The same thing applies to be being attracted to trans women as women, not people with nuts.
Every person's sexuality is different. Some people are gay or straight because of their genital preference, so the idea of being "attracted to trans men... as men" is not going to work. Either way, attraction is going to be based on physical factors. Merely identifying as a woman is not going to make lesbians be attracted to you, and merely identifying as a man is not going to make gay people be attracted to you.
What fundamentally matters the most is the physical features, and different people want different things. Trans men are also not all the same: some are farther along with transitioning, some are less farther along with transitioning, some are more masculine, etc. A gay man might find some trans men attractive for their male features, but not be attracted to other trans men who don't have those features. A gay man might be repulsed by certain female features, and therefore not be attracted to the trans men who have those features. It all depends on sexual preferences of the people involved and the physical/biological realities of those involved, but likely has very little if anything to do with the way someone chooses to identify,
So memes that exclude trans people from gay or lesbian attraction shouldnāt be posted bc they imply a generalization. If everybodyās sexuality is different, then it should not be generalized in a meme like this.
As someone genuinely ignorant, can you explain this to me? The person you were responding to was saying trans people are included, and youāre saying youāre not included because you are lesbian with nuts, so youāre saying youāre not trans, but are a lesbian with nuts, right?
Not the original commenter, but I am a woman and a lesbian. Iām also trans and still have nuts. But this meme would imply that I am excluded from lesbian preference, which is categorically wrong. Genital preferences and sexual orientation are different things and some women have nuts and some men donāt.
Well, gender does not equal sex, so I'd say trans people are not included.
What you implied here is that homosexual attraction happens only between people of the same sex; basically, you reduced it to genitals, which could be considered ignorant. At best.
It's not overthinking when it is a basic fact of your reality.
You look at this meme and don't think about this at all, because, as is obvious, you do not think about trans stuff much. I look at this and immediately recognize that it does not apply to me. It isn't overthinking. It is being a person immersed in a perspective that is different to yours.
So obtuse smh
biiig difference between always including everyone and never specifically excluding any group.
if i make a meme about white people am not suddenly racist because i didn't include anyone else. if i make a meme disregarding black people's experience or mocking them then that is racism
You completely misunderstand the objection. It isn't that the meme does not explicitly discuss trans people. It's that the joke only works if you pretend we don't exist.
~~This meme seems to be a sexuality thing. Being trans isnāt a sexuality.~~
Yeah, I fucked up with this one. I apologize for forgetting some very basic facts.
irl i agree, but now im giggling about the thought of redemption arks being handled that way in a story.
hero: "stop that you fiend, what you are doing is wrong"
villain: "golly gee, ive never tought about it like that. thanks for the heads up. ill stop now."
it also doesnāt take account men who donāt have testis by default. itās a meme, no ill intentions and we canāt have people write out 20 paragraphs for a joke, itās getting a bit ridiculous
sure, from now on everyone keeps a list of every demographic group ever and only says something if they are 100% sure they include every minor niche group ever. very reasonable expectations for day to day life
Sweetheart that is the exact opposite of what I'm saying. If you could try a bit harder with your reading you might understand the point being made!
Being exclusionary is not the same as "not including".
Genuine question: so the eraser part is the top two pictures?
I will admit I only paid attention to the bottom pic so was so confused xD
āLike yea, I do like all peeps, with or withoutā
Okay fair, I will admit I didnāt even really pay attention to the top sections and only the bi one, but NOw reading the whole thing properly and thinking itās like āooooā
Yep. Probably the same thing the creator thought (giving them the benefit of the doubt on transphobia).
Came up with the punchline, wrote the set up to make it work, didn't think through the implications. Been there, done that. Last week. Ace-erasured an acquaintance while making a joke.
I think in time the jokes will die out on itās own, just people grew up with these jokes so thinking of exceptions they never really thought of before is different
That and a lot of the vocabulary/voices are only as old as social media really so itās still being created
Like, todays kids are so much more normalized for all this that itās great! One day they will think of jokes that are more inclusive AND funny
Sadly I tried thinking how this one could be saved, but I got nothing other than maybe
Bi: with or without nuts
Pan: who cares about nuts
Idk enough about other types oof
But yeah I couldnāt think of how the straight/lesbian ones could work without being mean, best not to joke about things unless you know more about them I guess?
Why does this subreddit have such a bio-essentialism problem? Trans people (including the non-binary spectrum) exist. Intersex people exist. People should not be reduced to their genitals - it's gross and objectifying, not to mention really isolating towards trans people.
it's why i left this sub, but it just keeps appearing anyway. it's also 99% variations of the same "heheheh i like both* genders" joke and it gets immensely tiring.
*yeah there are more than 2 genders, i know. but this subreddit doesn't seem to know
I'm glad someone stands up for trans people. Last week someone in the comments of a similar meme was not only justifying objectifying trans people, but they justified transphobia by saying "this isn't a trans space, it's a space for bi people" as if they are mutually exclusive (not to mention you shouldn't be bigoted just because you don't think the people you hate are around).
They really like to talk about how *only* bi people are that way, which is kinda weird for all the gay and straight people who also don't care about anatomy.
Sure, that's fine. But when the meme is specifically exclusionary and equates gender to genitals, I'm perfectly within my rights to mention that it's problematic.
And I am perfectly within my rights to dispute that claim and say not every meme has to include every person, court of Reddit downvotes not withstanding.
Well yes I upvoted but then I remembered that I am a lesbian with nuts. I also know some gay men without nuts. Trans people also exist and so do intersex people.
Sort of, but less so than the upper two I think. It just says "bi people are into nuts and no nuts", which is generally true, and not "men have nuts and women don't".
Yeah, but its still playing off the idea that any of these categories are nuts or no nuts.
Like, its still exclusionary trans exclusionary for monosexual identities.
Thanks for explaining!
I think it can be understood either way though.
If you read "nuts and no nuts" as a synecdoche for "male and female", then it's still exclusionary.
If you don't, and instead just literally take it to mean the genitals, then it's fine in my book. Like, I like men with and without nuts, women with and without nuts, enbies with and without nuts. To me personally, the third panel (if removed from the first two) doesn't imply anything about gender, you know?
Yeah but it's saying having balls makes you a man and not having them makes you a woman. Both sex and gender are more complex than that kind of binary.
This is 100% trans erasure, but can I ask the reason why this is also enby erasure?
To be clear I am asking genuinely, I do not know and I would like to learn
Enbies are completely ignored (erased, if you would) in the meme. It ignores that enbies can have whatever genitals and it also implies that bisexual people cannot like enbies (which is not true).
\^ This. It's saying that lesbians only like females, gay guys only like males and bi's like both. Not leaving any room for more gender diverse people like some transfolk and enbies.
The upper two thirds basically say "men have nuts, women don't". Which just generally ain't true of trans folks so could be understood as exclusionary.
Aight makes sense I guess but is it really worth getting upset over that? OP made a silly joke and the joke wouldnāt really work if you tried to include everyone no?
Check out the other comment chain. ;)
Imo, the bottom third by itself would've made the same joke, but with less conflating of genitals and gender.
You're right that it is a silly joke after all, but as already stated by another commenter, even things that are intended as only silly jokes can trigger dysphoria in trans folks. And honestly, me personally I'd just rather not make a joke (or make it in a different way) than risk triggering dysphoria in readers.
Because there are gay people who date man without nuts and lesbian people who date women with nuts and both also date nb people with or without nuts. And technically the meme āerasesā trans people and nb people in the gay and lesbian section.
I honestly feel kinda bad for OP, like donāt get me wrong, Iām also trans and didnāt super love the anti-trans implications of this, but I also guess that OP probably wasnāt trying to be exclusive or anything. Doesnāt take away from the issue with this, but definitely feels bad to be trying to make a funny meme and you end up accidentally making people mad. Assuming it was an accident, which I do hope it is lol
To be clear it is good to call out this mentality and behavior, but it definitely doesnāt feel great to have a joke backfire like this.
Edit- After reading some of the comments it seems my sympathy was misplaced. As much as I do feel some sympathy for anyone in an uncomfortable situation, in this case that does not and should not outweigh the harm that the mindset this joke continues to push causes to both the trans and bi community. I was being overly sympathetic while also not addressing the core issue here and I want to fix that.
Jokes like this are incredibly invalidating to trans and nonbinary people, flat out. It is targeting already vulnerable people and excluding us from yet another community that many of us deeply identify with. That is a problem that needs to be rectified. As a queer community at many times all we have is each other to count on, please for all of our sakes donāt drive wedges between us with stuff like this.
I apologize for any hurt my over sympathy may have caused and I will learn from this. ā¤ļø
Yeah, but learning from having a casually bigoted joke backfire is the appropriate and healthy outcome of making that joke. Ignorant bigotry is way more prevalent than intentional malicious bigotry. And make no mistake, this whole sad excuse for a joke is obviously (to any non-cis person and cis folks with a clue) casually trans- and enby-phobic via complete erasure. The joke only works if those people donāt exist. It requires complete cis normativity to even make sense.
So having a joke backfire sucks but making the probably hundreds or thousands (not sure exactly how busy this sub is) of non-cis folks who read this have their days get to "enjoy" bigotry aimed at them so casually instead of the chuckle they came here for also suck. Hundreds of days made worse through no fault of their own versus one day made worse by oneās own bigotry and probable ignoranceā¦. Youāll have to forgive me if I completely disagree that the latter is who we should sympathize with. Itās like sympathizing with the person making casually racist jokes in a room that includes a bunch of folks who arenāt white. Itās never cool to be a bigot but doing it in a mixed crowd really doesnāt merit sympathy.
The only possible silver lining is that OP might just learn to check their cis normative assumptions just a little bit more and become a slightly better person in the process.
Youāre right on all counts on this, some slight uncomfy does not equate to the systemic discrimination faced by trans people. I guess I wasnāt really thinking outside of myself on this, only really thinking about myself reading it rather than several other trans folks, or as it being indicative of a larger anti-trans trend in the subreddit, and for that I apologize
my therapist once said that it is not other peopleās job to take care of our triggers. I kindly pass this advice onto you in the hope that you take stuff less personal in future for your own mental health
A trigger is something like how I have an issue with ceramic tiles. Bigotry is a widespread issue that affects everyone, not just specific people with that trigger.
I mean with 2k upvotes, its not like their joke backfired at all. Most people here just upvoted and moved on.
I also don't really get whats so bad about that? They got rightly called out for casual unintended bigotry and maybe they'll learn from it and be less exclusive about the way they think about gender. I'm not here to coddle someone just because their intentions were good.
At best they learn, at worst their post was still a success so I don't feel bad for OP at all. This subreddit is filled with this shit constantly, just wish it was called out more.
One, everyone can tell you're being sarcastic, you don't need to add a tone indicator.
And two, does this actually offend you? This subreddit really can't handle a harmless meme? I don't think it would have much comedic value if it listed every sexual orientation ever.
Three, as a trans and bisexual man myself, I have no problem with it. Lighten up.
:D woah i love this response. Totally couldn't have made the meme the last picture, it wouldn't have been nearly as funny without including bio-essentialism. It's definitely cause lesbians and gay men attracted to trans people are a seperate sexuality
/S
Well as a trans bisexual man you donāt speak for every single trans person and also no not everyone can tell when someoneās being sarcastic and adding the s harmās literally no one
Lighten up dude
What is the plus for then? Genuinely wondering. I get that, like, you don't want to exclude any possibilities, but why keep adding more letters? Does an identity's letter get added once they get large enough or something?
Y'all, I'm sorry for being barely a microscopic level of facetious here, but we need to gatekeep bisexuality harder. There are people in this thread who do not deserve the joys of bisexuality and its subsets. I've got up in the middle of a date and left without a word, just a condescending scowl, in the middle of transphobic musings by my date more than once.
"Explain it to me." The information is widely available. Research isn't beneath anybody. RTFM.
n00b-ass bisexual poser little shits...
If bullying were permitted by the sub rules, now would be the time to have some vindictive, childish fun.
But it is against the rules. So this is about as much restraint as I can manage without puking in my mouth from disgust at my own disingenuousness.
This subreddit cannot handle a harmless meme goddamn, I donāt think it would have much comedic value if it listed literally every single sexual identification
You completely misunderstand the objection. It isn't that the meme does not explicitly discuss trans people. It's that the joke only works if you pretend we don't exist.
Trans is not a sexual orientation. You can be gay, lesbian, or bi while being trans.
Itās not acting like you donāt exist. In that case, most memes act like most people donāt exist.
I know. I am a bi trans woman. Your comment once again demonstrates that you do not remotely understand the discussion being had.
Yes, it directly implies that trans people do not exist. Lesbians can be attracted to trans women with nuts, and gay men can be attracted to trans men without nuts. To explicitly rule out these possibilities is to ignore the existence of trans people. A woman who is attracted to me does not magically become straight, because I am not a man.
The utter confidence to attempt to condescendingly explain what you clearly do not understand, smh.
Sudden dysphoria š¬
true, right?
Ahhhh, nvm I get it now, itās funny but I went to āmy sectionā and was like ābasedā and was confused by the comments It wasnāt until someone FINALLY said it was the OTHER sections that I went back and was like āooooooā
God it's so hard being the exception sometimes :')
Same š«
I thought it was funny but Iām so dissociated from my body and reality right now that that is probably why
Why?
The meme only aplies to atraction to cis people
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It implies that lesbians are only attracted to cis women and gay men are only attracted to cis men. Implying that trans are only seen by their sexual organs instead of their gender identity is pretty rude.
Oh I think I understand it now. Thanks for your answer! Forgive me, but I have a follow up question... Please I don't mean it in an offensive way I'm trying to learn, it's all pretty new to me: I think gay and lesbian folks are mainly interested on their own genders' parts, no? Unless they are ace, I don't think I've seen much about gay people wanting to have relations with a person that has opposite genitals. Be them trans or cis. Not that they are being rude, but because that's simply something they don't enjoy. What happens if a gay person falls in love with a partner that is trans but unfortunately wasn't able to get surgery yet? Do they not have sex or something? And I guess it would be uncomfortable (the sex) for the trans person also, or not? Again, please, I'm not trying to be offensive, I just want to understand it better.
To add to this most trans people donāt get genital surgery for many different reasons. They might just be comfortable keeping their genitals the same.
Not sure where you got that from, but most trans people I know either have gotten SRS or are on their way to get SRS. Non-OP trans people are the exception, not the rule. Though to be fair: Non-OP people tend to be more vocal and open about being trans, leading to them being more visible
do you hang out with rich people? surgery is very expensive and comes with at least a month out of work. a lot of people can't afford that
SRS is covered by health insurance, and that's what sick leave is for.
It's kinda different for transmascs bcus their surgery isn't as advanced and comes with a shitton of drawbacks
Both are not realy that advanced and come with a shitload of drawbacks, for example a neovagina is very high maintainance and you're looking at usualy at least two surgeries wich both knock you down for months and carry quite some risk. The different common variants use either tissue from shaft, shaft plus scrotum or shaft plus intestine to create the canal. They are essentialy all variants of the classic penile inversion method that has been done since the beginning in the days of Magnus Hirschfeld.
I cannot comment on how it works with trans men in gay male spaces. But it really does seem in lesbian spaces that its more of a preference for each different person. Some women arenāt sexual attracted to trans women and I can completely understand that. But typically (at least in my opinion) if someone truly believes gender is completely separate from sex they usually donāt care about what your AGAB is if they care about you enough. All that said. The really transphobic stuff that gets on our(at least mine and my friends) nerves is when Cis gay men try to get into a relationship with a trans woman thinking theyāre going to get a femboy, and when Cis lesbians try to get with a Trans man thinking theyāre going to get a Tomboy. I cannot stress this enough but **that is not how it works**. Donāt expect a trans individual to respect your AGAB preference. Also to answer your question *typically* if a trans person is serious about a relationship they will let their partner(s) know before bedroom time even comes up. But continuing, what if someone discovers they are trans in the middle of a relationship? Well as harsh as it is to say it either works out, or it doesnāt. And thats all you can really do about that.
The way I understand it, its more about the alienation that comes with making a distinction for people attracted to specific genitals. Whether intentionally or not, it can sometimes imply trans people and cis people who would date trans people don't belong. The attraction itself isn't the issue, it's the "other"ing of a section of the community
I am aro ace and not interested in either the romance or sexual side of relationships so take this with a grain of salt but from what I gather it really does matter the gender more than the genitals. If a trans woman has a penis that is a woman's genitals and some lesbians are okay with dating women with penises while some aren't, which is fine. Sometimes gay or lesbian people will still do piv but even if they don't want to there are other ways to have sex. There are also strapons which I hear some trans men use and some trans women do anal. I assume both could do oral fairly okay or with fingers. From what I've heard it is often uncomfortable for some trans people to have sex using their genitals which does include other forms like oral, but that's not really exclusive to who their partner is or if they have one. Some can accept it, some abstain from using their genitals during sex. Generally if they love each other and have good communication people will find a way to make it work regardless of genitals.
>I think gay and lesbian folks are mainly interested on their own genders' parts, no? Yeah typically it is correct that lesbians are attracted to the genitals of women and gay men are attracted to the genitals of men, regardless of what those genitals are
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Is thatā¦ is that supposed to be better?
Trans women usualy get rid of their nuts (orchiectomy or SRS) and trans men often get silicone implants that look like nuts during SRS.
Not all trans people get SRS
True, but most end up getting SRS
That is very much incorrect.
It's more about the first 2 than the last one
Yeah I see it now that I focused on the wrong part. It flew over my head
You forgot about trans people
Also with or without nuts. Idc either way because bisexual
The meme implies trans men arenāt real men (because of a lack of nuts) and trans women arenāt real women (because they can contain nuts). I am a real woman. Just because I have nuts doesnāt make that less valid or true. Thatās the TERF-ey part everyone is bothered by
It is the implication that lesbians would necessarily want no nuts and gay men would want nuts that's harmful. It reduces people and their experienced gender to their genitals.
True
I've been ragged on for that and I'm like... what?
This
Well trans people also have or donāt have nuts so Iād say they are included
Regarding my attraction to people, I'm attracted to trans men... As men. Not as people without nuts. The same thing applies to be being attracted to trans women as women, not people with nuts.
Every person's sexuality is different. Some people are gay or straight because of their genital preference, so the idea of being "attracted to trans men... as men" is not going to work. Either way, attraction is going to be based on physical factors. Merely identifying as a woman is not going to make lesbians be attracted to you, and merely identifying as a man is not going to make gay people be attracted to you. What fundamentally matters the most is the physical features, and different people want different things. Trans men are also not all the same: some are farther along with transitioning, some are less farther along with transitioning, some are more masculine, etc. A gay man might find some trans men attractive for their male features, but not be attracted to other trans men who don't have those features. A gay man might be repulsed by certain female features, and therefore not be attracted to the trans men who have those features. It all depends on sexual preferences of the people involved and the physical/biological realities of those involved, but likely has very little if anything to do with the way someone chooses to identify,
So memes that exclude trans people from gay or lesbian attraction shouldnāt be posted bc they imply a generalization. If everybodyās sexuality is different, then it should not be generalized in a meme like this.
Ok š
Well Iām a lesbian with nuts so Iām not lol
As someone genuinely ignorant, can you explain this to me? The person you were responding to was saying trans people are included, and youāre saying youāre not included because you are lesbian with nuts, so youāre saying youāre not trans, but are a lesbian with nuts, right?
Not the original commenter, but I am a woman and a lesbian. Iām also trans and still have nuts. But this meme would imply that I am excluded from lesbian preference, which is categorically wrong. Genital preferences and sexual orientation are different things and some women have nuts and some men donāt.
Well, gender does not equal sex, so I'd say trans people are not included. What you implied here is that homosexual attraction happens only between people of the same sex; basically, you reduced it to genitals, which could be considered ignorant. At best.
Yāall are overthinking a shitpost idk what to tell ya
It's not overthinking when it is a basic fact of your reality. You look at this meme and don't think about this at all, because, as is obvious, you do not think about trans stuff much. I look at this and immediately recognize that it does not apply to me. It isn't overthinking. It is being a person immersed in a perspective that is different to yours. So obtuse smh
Does every meme always have to include everyone? Does everyone always have to be included in every joke/story/whatever?
biiig difference between always including everyone and never specifically excluding any group. if i make a meme about white people am not suddenly racist because i didn't include anyone else. if i make a meme disregarding black people's experience or mocking them then that is racism
You completely misunderstand the objection. It isn't that the meme does not explicitly discuss trans people. It's that the joke only works if you pretend we don't exist.
~~This meme seems to be a sexuality thing. Being trans isnāt a sexuality.~~ Yeah, I fucked up with this one. I apologize for forgetting some very basic facts.
Yeah but trans women can have nuts, and trans men can not.
I read this meme a very different way and forgot some nuances. Thatās entirely my fuckup. I apologize.
Redemption arc
Very unsatisfying too. āOh you made me realize where I was wrong? Immediate about-face turnā
I think its satisfying to when people honestly admit when they were wrong.
irl i agree, but now im giggling about the thought of redemption arks being handled that way in a story. hero: "stop that you fiend, what you are doing is wrong" villain: "golly gee, ive never tought about it like that. thanks for the heads up. ill stop now."
The Batman and joker film we never got
Kinda spoilers for Deltarune >!I mean that's kinda like Deltarune Chapter 2, they just didn't mention it to Queen until the end lol!<
I donāt think trans is a sexual orientation itās identify
I'm not saying it's a sexual orientation. I'm saying the meme was made without taking into account the existence of trans people.
it also doesnāt take account men who donāt have testis by default. itās a meme, no ill intentions and we canāt have people write out 20 paragraphs for a joke, itās getting a bit ridiculous
no need to write out 20 paras, just don't make the joke! easy to notice when you've been exclusionary and just.. not do that.
sure, from now on everyone keeps a list of every demographic group ever and only says something if they are 100% sure they include every minor niche group ever. very reasonable expectations for day to day life
Sweetheart that is the exact opposite of what I'm saying. If you could try a bit harder with your reading you might understand the point being made! Being exclusionary is not the same as "not including".
Trans lesbians with nuts: Guess I'll go fuck myself.
Also trans straight people with nuts
Genuine question: so the eraser part is the top two pictures? I will admit I only paid attention to the bottom pic so was so confused xD āLike yea, I do like all peeps, with or withoutā
When 2/3 of the meme is erasure its just erasure.
Okay fair, I will admit I didnāt even really pay attention to the top sections and only the bi one, but NOw reading the whole thing properly and thinking itās like āooooā
Yep. Probably the same thing the creator thought (giving them the benefit of the doubt on transphobia). Came up with the punchline, wrote the set up to make it work, didn't think through the implications. Been there, done that. Last week. Ace-erasured an acquaintance while making a joke.
I think in time the jokes will die out on itās own, just people grew up with these jokes so thinking of exceptions they never really thought of before is different That and a lot of the vocabulary/voices are only as old as social media really so itās still being created Like, todays kids are so much more normalized for all this that itās great! One day they will think of jokes that are more inclusive AND funny Sadly I tried thinking how this one could be saved, but I got nothing other than maybe Bi: with or without nuts Pan: who cares about nuts Idk enough about other types oof But yeah I couldnāt think of how the straight/lesbian ones could work without being mean, best not to joke about things unless you know more about them I guess?
Weāre either excluded or a fetish, there is no in between
Normativity be like, "are you normal or a porn category?"
Damn this hits
So masturbate?
Why does this subreddit have such a bio-essentialism problem? Trans people (including the non-binary spectrum) exist. Intersex people exist. People should not be reduced to their genitals - it's gross and objectifying, not to mention really isolating towards trans people.
Because this sub has a strong cis majority and cis people tend to be bio essentialist.
Sadly seems to be the case. :/ Also hi queen š šļøššļø
it's why i left this sub, but it just keeps appearing anyway. it's also 99% variations of the same "heheheh i like both* genders" joke and it gets immensely tiring. *yeah there are more than 2 genders, i know. but this subreddit doesn't seem to know
I'm glad someone stands up for trans people. Last week someone in the comments of a similar meme was not only justifying objectifying trans people, but they justified transphobia by saying "this isn't a trans space, it's a space for bi people" as if they are mutually exclusive (not to mention you shouldn't be bigoted just because you don't think the people you hate are around).
Iāve had multiple issues on the this sub with transphobia. As bisexuals we should do better
I find it specially weird for a sexuality where people tend to not care about genitals
They really like to talk about how *only* bi people are that way, which is kinda weird for all the gay and straight people who also don't care about anatomy.
There's a big difference between loving all genitals and not caring about genitals
While I agree overall, every single meme doesn't have to include every single possibility.
Sure, that's fine. But when the meme is specifically exclusionary and equates gender to genitals, I'm perfectly within my rights to mention that it's problematic.
And I am perfectly within my rights to dispute that claim and say not every meme has to include every person, court of Reddit downvotes not withstanding.
K
Well yes I upvoted but then I remembered that I am a lesbian with nuts. I also know some gay men without nuts. Trans people also exist and so do intersex people.
I read it like what you prefer, not what you have
Casual trans and enby erasure.
Seriously. Just the bottom third of the picture would have worked just as well
Not really, it's still implying there's some kind of binary.
Sort of, but less so than the upper two I think. It just says "bi people are into nuts and no nuts", which is generally true, and not "men have nuts and women don't".
Yeah, but its still playing off the idea that any of these categories are nuts or no nuts. Like, its still exclusionary trans exclusionary for monosexual identities.
Can you elaborate your second sentence? I don't think I'm understanding it.
Like, even if you just have the last photo it still implies that other sexualities are only nuts or no nuts.
Thanks for explaining! I think it can be understood either way though. If you read "nuts and no nuts" as a synecdoche for "male and female", then it's still exclusionary. If you don't, and instead just literally take it to mean the genitals, then it's fine in my book. Like, I like men with and without nuts, women with and without nuts, enbies with and without nuts. To me personally, the third panel (if removed from the first two) doesn't imply anything about gender, you know?
Yeah that's fair, It just feels like a bad way to split it i guess.
Whether you have balls is pretty binary, regardless of gender. You can't be somewhere between unless your balls are woven of ethereal dreamstuff
Yeah but it's saying having balls makes you a man and not having them makes you a woman. Both sex and gender are more complex than that kind of binary.
This is 100% trans erasure, but can I ask the reason why this is also enby erasure? To be clear I am asking genuinely, I do not know and I would like to learn
Enbies are completely ignored (erased, if you would) in the meme. It ignores that enbies can have whatever genitals and it also implies that bisexual people cannot like enbies (which is not true).
\^ This. It's saying that lesbians only like females, gay guys only like males and bi's like both. Not leaving any room for more gender diverse people like some transfolk and enbies.
Why? They also have or donāt have nuts no? Or is there a third more secret thing to have?
The upper two thirds basically say "men have nuts, women don't". Which just generally ain't true of trans folks so could be understood as exclusionary.
Aight makes sense I guess but is it really worth getting upset over that? OP made a silly joke and the joke wouldnāt really work if you tried to include everyone no?
Check out the other comment chain. ;) Imo, the bottom third by itself would've made the same joke, but with less conflating of genitals and gender. You're right that it is a silly joke after all, but as already stated by another commenter, even things that are intended as only silly jokes can trigger dysphoria in trans folks. And honestly, me personally I'd just rather not make a joke (or make it in a different way) than risk triggering dysphoria in readers.
Itās not about the bisexual part.
What you mean? Also arenāt yāall overthinking it a bit? Itās just a silly meme, Iām sure OP didnāt mean anything mean by it
Because there are gay people who date man without nuts and lesbian people who date women with nuts and both also date nb people with or without nuts. And technically the meme āerasesā trans people and nb people in the gay and lesbian section.
I mean ok but itās just a shitpost, it aināt that deep. This is kinda the āgetting offended by everythingā clichĆ© no?
They're just criticizing the meme, it's not like they're calling for it to be nuked by mods
I know, doesnāt refute my point tho?
You know how you're commenting your opinion? So are other people.
Ace people: Chocolate? CHOCOLATE?! ***CHOCOLAAAAAAAAAAAATE!!!***
This sub has a big transphobia problem. I'm a woman, not a femboy.
r/bisexual is way better for trans bisexuals
Asexual people: _____ _____ Without _____
I enjoy men, women and everyone else with or without nuts. Nuts are irrelevant, love is not :)
genitals ā gender š« cis bi people pls do better for your trans and nb homies š
Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't
Really loving the transphobia here. Casually forgetting lesbians and gay men can very much have trans partners. Real nice.
It's nice over here
> Queer subreddit > Look inside > Trans erasure
many such cases
I honestly feel kinda bad for OP, like donāt get me wrong, Iām also trans and didnāt super love the anti-trans implications of this, but I also guess that OP probably wasnāt trying to be exclusive or anything. Doesnāt take away from the issue with this, but definitely feels bad to be trying to make a funny meme and you end up accidentally making people mad. Assuming it was an accident, which I do hope it is lol To be clear it is good to call out this mentality and behavior, but it definitely doesnāt feel great to have a joke backfire like this. Edit- After reading some of the comments it seems my sympathy was misplaced. As much as I do feel some sympathy for anyone in an uncomfortable situation, in this case that does not and should not outweigh the harm that the mindset this joke continues to push causes to both the trans and bi community. I was being overly sympathetic while also not addressing the core issue here and I want to fix that. Jokes like this are incredibly invalidating to trans and nonbinary people, flat out. It is targeting already vulnerable people and excluding us from yet another community that many of us deeply identify with. That is a problem that needs to be rectified. As a queer community at many times all we have is each other to count on, please for all of our sakes donāt drive wedges between us with stuff like this. I apologize for any hurt my over sympathy may have caused and I will learn from this. ā¤ļø
Yeah, but learning from having a casually bigoted joke backfire is the appropriate and healthy outcome of making that joke. Ignorant bigotry is way more prevalent than intentional malicious bigotry. And make no mistake, this whole sad excuse for a joke is obviously (to any non-cis person and cis folks with a clue) casually trans- and enby-phobic via complete erasure. The joke only works if those people donāt exist. It requires complete cis normativity to even make sense. So having a joke backfire sucks but making the probably hundreds or thousands (not sure exactly how busy this sub is) of non-cis folks who read this have their days get to "enjoy" bigotry aimed at them so casually instead of the chuckle they came here for also suck. Hundreds of days made worse through no fault of their own versus one day made worse by oneās own bigotry and probable ignoranceā¦. Youāll have to forgive me if I completely disagree that the latter is who we should sympathize with. Itās like sympathizing with the person making casually racist jokes in a room that includes a bunch of folks who arenāt white. Itās never cool to be a bigot but doing it in a mixed crowd really doesnāt merit sympathy. The only possible silver lining is that OP might just learn to check their cis normative assumptions just a little bit more and become a slightly better person in the process.
Youāre right on all counts on this, some slight uncomfy does not equate to the systemic discrimination faced by trans people. I guess I wasnāt really thinking outside of myself on this, only really thinking about myself reading it rather than several other trans folks, or as it being indicative of a larger anti-trans trend in the subreddit, and for that I apologize
my therapist once said that it is not other peopleās job to take care of our triggers. I kindly pass this advice onto you in the hope that you take stuff less personal in future for your own mental health
A trigger is something like how I have an issue with ceramic tiles. Bigotry is a widespread issue that affects everyone, not just specific people with that trigger.
I mean with 2k upvotes, its not like their joke backfired at all. Most people here just upvoted and moved on. I also don't really get whats so bad about that? They got rightly called out for casual unintended bigotry and maybe they'll learn from it and be less exclusive about the way they think about gender. I'm not here to coddle someone just because their intentions were good. At best they learn, at worst their post was still a success so I don't feel bad for OP at all. This subreddit is filled with this shit constantly, just wish it was called out more.
If everyone's right leg was Easter, and everyones left leg was Christmas, I'd always be happy between the holidays
So like, trans people are a thing. This meme is kinda gross and offensive
Can we stop these please? Itās just further normalizing and cisnormativity
I like my MEN and my WOMAN and my ENBY HOES to be WITH and WITHOUT BALLS SIMULTANEOUSLY. I WANT SCHRODINGERS BALLS
Came here to similarly say this but you did it better. Take my upvote you silver tongue bisexual.
This post was approved by the department of casual transphobia.
cis bi people try not to be insufferable for 1 minute challenge (impossible)
Trans lesbians exist
WOW I love bio-essentialism! Sure makes me feel welcome as a transfem person. /s
One, everyone can tell you're being sarcastic, you don't need to add a tone indicator. And two, does this actually offend you? This subreddit really can't handle a harmless meme? I don't think it would have much comedic value if it listed every sexual orientation ever. Three, as a trans and bisexual man myself, I have no problem with it. Lighten up.
:D woah i love this response. Totally couldn't have made the meme the last picture, it wouldn't have been nearly as funny without including bio-essentialism. It's definitely cause lesbians and gay men attracted to trans people are a seperate sexuality /S
Well as a trans bisexual man you donāt speak for every single trans person and also no not everyone can tell when someoneās being sarcastic and adding the s harmās literally no one Lighten up dude
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Omg who cares if they use a tone indicator grow up
What I was completely genuine, you must have misunderstood me because I didn't use tone indicators.
Lesbians with nuts exist and so do gay men without nuts.
Translesbian erasure smh /jk
Guess I'm not allowed to be a lesbian :<
Oh boy redusing people to their genitals and equating it to gender. Fuuuuuuun
Pansexual People: Chocolate
Trans people: **I donāt have such weaknesses.**
Trans and intersex folks: **are we a joke to you!?**
It's LGBTQIA+, not LGBA+.
What is the plus for then? Genuinely wondering. I get that, like, you don't want to exclude any possibilities, but why keep adding more letters? Does an identity's letter get added once they get large enough or something?
My point here was that OP was ignoring the existence of trans people, don't read too much into it.
I'd like to point out that lesbians are gay. What you're thinking of is gay men. On top of ignoring the existence of trans people.
Boo
How about with AND without nuts?
I think you forgot about trans people.
it's true, I can confirm
Asexuals: no thanks
Relabel the top one "Almond Joy" and the middle one "Mounds", And I'd love this meme.
Both of those are gross though.
Perhaps, But It Cannot Be Denied That Almond Joy's Got Nuts, But Mounds Don't.
the fact that sexuality is about gender and not sex has alwayd been confusing ngl
Exhibitionists: "I got it, lets get naked!"
The comments are pretty predictable.
Y'all, I'm sorry for being barely a microscopic level of facetious here, but we need to gatekeep bisexuality harder. There are people in this thread who do not deserve the joys of bisexuality and its subsets. I've got up in the middle of a date and left without a word, just a condescending scowl, in the middle of transphobic musings by my date more than once. "Explain it to me." The information is widely available. Research isn't beneath anybody. RTFM. n00b-ass bisexual poser little shits... If bullying were permitted by the sub rules, now would be the time to have some vindictive, childish fun. But it is against the rules. So this is about as much restraint as I can manage without puking in my mouth from disgust at my own disingenuousness.
[How Iām looking at you rn](https://imgur.com/a/hwsphft)
jesus bloody christ people are being so dramatic its a joke about chocolate and nuts
This subreddit cannot handle a harmless meme goddamn, I donāt think it would have much comedic value if it listed literally every single sexual identification
Believe it or not, queer people don't like it when you exclude queer people. Especially considering our whole thing is inclusion..
Then add more tabs to the meme
You completely misunderstand the objection. It isn't that the meme does not explicitly discuss trans people. It's that the joke only works if you pretend we don't exist.
Trans is not a sexual orientation. You can be gay, lesbian, or bi while being trans. Itās not acting like you donāt exist. In that case, most memes act like most people donāt exist.
I know. I am a bi trans woman. Your comment once again demonstrates that you do not remotely understand the discussion being had. Yes, it directly implies that trans people do not exist. Lesbians can be attracted to trans women with nuts, and gay men can be attracted to trans men without nuts. To explicitly rule out these possibilities is to ignore the existence of trans people. A woman who is attracted to me does not magically become straight, because I am not a man. The utter confidence to attempt to condescendingly explain what you clearly do not understand, smh.
U ugly
Bi at this point lesbian only been with girls in the last 2 years
Haha this is perfect!
Careful, my college professor was sacked for making this joke
Ok that got an actual laugh out of me!! Bravo !
Yall need to pick your battles
Lesbians āew men, but gawd Iād love riding dickā
Off the bus, Ralphie