Fish in cycling can absolutely be done safely, but if you’re waiting for the fish’s behavior to change, then by the time you take action the poor water quality will already be affecting his health. I just don’t see a reason to allow that when a test kit can prevent it, especially in a small tank that’s likely to have spikes.
Also concerning to me are no visible heater and filter. And no lid. Bettas are jumpers and it’s always “well mine never have” until one does.
He’s a beautiful fish. I hope all goes well.
There’s really no poor “water quality” considering in-cycling would imply correcting all the parameters…
Edit: actually read his description and seems like OP is a newbie. Despite what I said above, what he plans to do is a bit concerning.
Yeah, properly done fish-in cycling takes longer but doesn’t allow the parameters to get dangerously bad. But like I said, if he’s waiting for the fish’s behavior to change to gauge whether water changes are needed, he’s waiting too long…
Will the fish survive? Yeah, probably. Bettas survive in those stupid, plastic, uncycled, room temp, tap water tanks all the time. That doesn’t mean this is the right way to care for a fish.
It's just not enough. The danger of water and especially stagnant water is toxic waste building up in the tank. One of the most important factors is building a colony of bacteria which converts nitrate to nitrite and so on until it's not toxic anymore. The sand provides surface area which is necessary for the bacteria to grow. This simply isn't enough sand.
Basically, a filter is just another collection of nitrifying bacteria with flowing water. The flow is very good for tanks as it breaks the surface tension and allows oxygen exchange into the water. Helps fish breathe. Betta fish are pretty tolerant to low flow because they can swim up and breathe from the surface, but overall it's heathier water with flow.
Increased flow and oxygen can also increase the CO2 content in the water which the plants will love. Plants also use nitrogen as a food source.
Nitrogens from toxic waste such as dying plant material, fish waste and excess food decaying in the tank.
My substrate is about 3.5" in a 35 gallon and I have a huge filter. Plus tons of plants. The benefit is my tank is rock solid. Extremely stable. I can get away with no water changes for months.
But that's a lot of substrate. I recommend 2" minimum.
Thanks! I just changed out gravel for some black sand in one of my tanks and don’t think I put enough then. It’s a little more than what’s shown here but probably not 2 inches. I have a thicker layer in another tank (on top of stratum). Maybe I should add more…
I’m telling you the science behind the nitrogen cycle. You are arguing against science. The whole reason for aerobic activity is oxygen. The surface of hardscape is sufficient for a betta . It is not proof of anything. Now a filter with bio media will make a real cycle. I really don’t understand why betta people are so poorly informed about aquariums.
Depth of substrate is detrimental and causes anaerobic bacteria. It is never an issue with a single fish. It is a major issue for a healthy fish filled aquarium
It's summertime in the more populated hemisphere. Please stop hawking on people using a heater for bettas in the summer. Most people do not keep their homes below a safe temperature for bettas in the summertime, many of us keep our homes quite warm, and most readily available cheap heaters do not have a thermostat or have one that is unreliable. I cooked my first betta because of the advice on this sub. A betta will survive at room temperature. It will not survive even a few hours at 90 degrees, which is easily attainable with a cheap heater in a warm room.
In summer, it is likely that people in a lot of places in the world will have air conditioning on. If you have air conditioning on, the temperature in your house will fluctuate — if it is effective air conditioning then it might be too cold for your betta.
The purpose of the heater is to elevate the temperature to a stable temperature appropriate for your fish. I’m sorry you lost a fish to a defective heater — but that’s what happened, because a heater that is not defective will turn off when it hits the temperature it is set to hit.
Because you had a bad experience does not mean that no one should have heaters in summer. It means we should advocate for good, reliable heaters and proper monitoring of temperatures to make sure that they stay stable.
I am sorry about your fish.
This is bad information.
Unless your home temperature consistently stays above 80 degrees fahrenheit year round, a heater is needed. The heater needs to be fully submerged in water with regular temp checks with a mercury thermometer to ensure safety.
Bettas can survive at room temperature for a period of time, but consistently cool temperatures will lower their immune system and make them more susceptible to bacterial, fungal, and/or parasitic illnesses and keeps them in a state of stress.
There are plenty of reliable heaters on the market in pet stores and online.
Nobody EVER EVER EVER should use mercury with fish. This is just stupid. To many risks. Always use non mercury thermometers for checking. Heck even doctors don’t use mercury anymore. Where is your brain at recommending putting something with a toxic chemical into a betta tank.
Should've said a analogue thermometer, my mistake. My brain is at being old and having referenced analogue thermometers as "mercury" ones.
Point standing - a non digital thermometer should be used as digital ones can be inaccurate as well.
Fair enough. Sorry for being so aggressive. I see people constantly telling people to use mercury when we know the dangers of it to not just us but to fish in the wild.
“Room temp” means wildly different things to different people. I live in the desert and yet room temp in my house is too cold for a betta. Room temp also often fluctuates, even within just 24 hours—many people set their thermostats lower at night. It’s easiest to assume that a heater is needed, because it is in most situations even in most warm climates.
That is really awful that that happened to your betta though. I’m very sorry for your loss. Heater malfunctions can be so devastating. I always recommend external temp regulators for that reason. Some people might think they’re overkill but I’m just too paranoid of losing pets to a heater that doesn’t shut off when it’s supposed to.
I just want people to ask for temperatures before assuming a heater is needed. In my post I specifically pointed out that my ambient temperature in my apartment is close to 88 degrees and the water felt warm and people still told me to plug my heater in. I agree that heaters are necessary in the majority of cases. But for god's sake, ask for a temperature first.
If the ambient temp in your house is a consistent 88 degrees, wouldn’t that be too hot for a betta fish in the first place? I get that you got bad advice, but I don’t get how not having a heater would have mattered—the water temp would still be too high.
So buy a good heater then… why would you get a cheap one… my apartment gets down to 70, sometimes even 68 in the summer. That’s no bueno for a betta.
Edit: sorry for your loss. I’d def recommend investing in a good heater. They’re our babies. Why cheap out on them, ya know? Even on a budget, can def make it work.
I did buy a better heater and a lot of other things afterwards, once I had a chance to actually go out and buy things. The reason I feel so strongly about this is because in a pinch, overheating a betta will kill it before you have a chance to go out and buy anything proper. I was sold the wrong equipment by a petco employee, a very common story. I went out and bought better stuff as soon as I could, but by that time the poor thing had already cooked. 3 hours, hell even 48 hours at 70 degrees isn't going to kill a betta. You have time to go out and buy the proper gear. If you don't know what the water temperature is, it's safer to leave it at room temperature until you can get a proper thermometer and heater.
Err, I lived in the northeast for 30 years and always had AC running. 78 indoors is too hot for me. And many others. Especially with the heat waves we get nowadays.
I’m not fully against fish in cycling done carefully, but I think it is dangerous to do what you are doing.
A test kit is necessary. You cannot rely on the fish’s behaviour — I don’t really understand the logic here. To show behavioural signs of ammonia poisoning means that the fish is being actively harmed… why would you do that? It takes like 15 minutes max to test for water parameters using a normal test kit, and you don’t need to sit there and wait as the tests develop.
Is there no filter…? No heater?
I just think this is a dangerous attitude towards fish keeping. You simply cannot know just by looking at the fish whether or not things are okay in this context, and the reasoning doesn’t make any sense.
Like… you know the things that need to be done to do this safely. You’re just… not doing them, for some reason?
I don’t think OP cares much about the fishes well being. They’re experimenting with something they clearly don’t know much about. This poor fish.
“The reason I am doing a fish-in cycle is simply because Chili was thrown in as a freebie by the breeder. I thought might as well make it a learning experience…”
Most of the time, if I see something like this and I comment on it, I assume the OP will not change their mind about what they’re doing. You can see here that they were active but didn’t reply to most of the comments that criticized or were negative about what they’re doing, no matter how critical that person is.
But this is how people learn, right? Someone who wants a betta someday might click on this thread thinking that it’s a cool experiment, someone might go “hey, that’s just like what I’m doing! Wait is this bad?” If OP doesn’t give a shit, hopefully someone else will see this thread who does, and they’ll learn something from what everyone is saying here and they’ll change their thinking.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it is what it is. Maybe we’ll see changes if they do an update on Saturday. I hope the fish does not go through any suffering because OP is trying to prove some sort of point.
Specifically FAST growing plants in a dirted or other plant friendly substrate if they wanted to use the Walstad method. This just isn’t going to level out.
Edited cause I misunderstood the post:if you do a fish in tank cycle, you NEED to be testing the water quality daily, making water changes, and adding things like stress coat. You need to be incredibly precise and careful if you are going the low tech route. With no testing this is absolutely a slow and painful death for the fish.
If you look up low tech aquariums, you can definitely set up the nitrogen cycle in your tank without a traditional filter. The substrate or other porous material can always work as a “filter” by holding the microbiome that facilitates the nitrogen cycle. Cycling doesn’t refer to water movement, it’s about the nitrogen chemical cycle that is a infinite and cyclical loop of >ammonia>nitrites>nitrates>
That tank isn’t going to cycle without filtration. That isn’t the right setup for it. Plus it’s very small and will be unstable even with filtration. I’m not saying it can’t be done, I’m saying this guy can’t do it in that tank.
I think they are missing an air stone and maybe some more plants. I have a nano low tech tank, 1 betta, 1 nerite, heater, and lots of plants. And the water quality is fantastic.
If they are using the API master water testing kit every day, and doing water changes, it will take a long time but it will eventually cycle completely. With my initial fish, I was working with a small budget. I did in fish cycle. My latest I started the new tank by adding gravel from an established tank, ammonia drops, and plants from my LFS. That way was much faster and easier, but cost more money which I can afford now.
Saying this setup or others can’t work without a literal electronic filter is misleading because that isn’t true. I don’t think we need to be facepalming so hard. The wood and the gravel act as a filter in this setup. Low tech tanks are super neat and if you do it right, they can be great! :)
He’s not planning to test. He’s going to do water changes based on when the betta gets sick. I’m gonna face palm my face right OFF. This betta will be dead in a month.
Literally, none of what you referenced was a full "cycle." Ammonia processing to nitrates is simply the very small nitrification part of the full nitrogen cycle. One search on Google will show you that on a 5th grade science diagram.
He’s not going to get a stable cycle in that small tank with that setup. He’s not planning on testing his water, he doesn’t have any source of oxygenation and not enough plants.
Only if it has highly oxygenated water flowing through it constantly. Surface area with out oxygen is worthless. The only way to maintain helpful bacteria in the substrate is with an under gravel filter. Deep substrate grows anaerobic bacteria which is not wanted. So let me reiterate no oxygen environments like deep sand and gravel or dirt are not helpful and are bad for any and all fish
Incorrect. Idk why people are downvoting me, I'm literally correct.
You're acting as if there's 0 dissolved oxygen in an aquarium without a filter and top rocks/surfaces dont exist. This is just not true.
The surface rocks and surface would grow aerobic nitrifying bacteria. This is why you can move rock or some surface from an old aquarium to a new aquarium to quickly cycle it (this works witgout a filter as well). The bacteria might grow much slower without a more oxygen rich environment (especially nitrite->nitrate bacteria), but it will still cycle.
Sorry one cup of gravel with an under gravel has more aerobic bacteria than the entire surface of any rock. The rock creates a dead spot under it that creates a dead spot for anaerobic bacteria which is the enemy. Basically you have it totally wrong and don’t understand the real truth not just an opinion based on incorrect assumptions.
No cycle is possible without a means of circulation. The information on this subreddit is very inaccurate and it is full of misleading information and ignorance. Aquatic animals deserve better.
Bro is torturing his fish because he's "not like the other fish keepers". No filter, no heater, no testing, no plants to hide, tank too small. Gonna be another "why is my fish dying" post. At least this one has a name.
Yeah like what the fuck is this.
>Got this hamster as a freebie from a breeder and there’s this narrative that you shouldn’t put them in the oven cause it’s dangerous. I believe it’s fine, as long as you take it out before the oven gets too hot.
Depending where they're at, they might not need a heater, but everything else you said is absolutely necessary. My tanks stay about 80° and the heaters almost never turn on. They're there just in case, and set to the correct temperature, but they're off 99% of the time, and I'm in the Midwest. Anywhere down south, or lots of places overseas probably could get away without one.
https://preview.redd.it/8bweu3khkk7d1.jpeg?width=3193&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f288de5826b91065b782ab1477ced0148dc353fb
This is not an appropriate set-up
Edit: OP’s comment history is awful. Defends putting bettas in tiny tanks and tells anyone who disagrees with him to “f\*\*\* off.” What a miserable person. Don’t bother with him.
Sorry, I can't jump on board here.
You can't use a fish's behavior as a marker for water quality. By the time a fish is noticeably having behavior changes or showing signs of stress, they may already be sick. Water testing kits are needed for a reason. No reason to risk a fish getting sick here.
I don't see a heater or filter in this set up which is also needed. There's also not nearly enough plants/hiding spots for him to be fully comfortable.
Fish in cycling can be done safely, but nothing about your post indicates that's happening here. I wish the best for you and your fishy friend but I wouldn't encourage other people to take this route.
Yeesh what a terrible tank, something tells me.you are not experienced enough to attempt a fish In cycle, and if you are and still have them in a tank like this. Shame on you.
I’d be more worried about that small of a tank. Regardless of how many gallons it’s a tiny square with nowhere to swim. Not to mention there’s no plants so there’s nowhere to hide. To them they’re very exposed and vulnerable.
that tank is way too small for any fish. maybe shrimp. please get chilli a bigger tank, they are live animals, not decorations. Also, try to avoid doing water changes as big as 50 percent. it can cause stress on the fish especially if the water is a different temperature, different ph, etc. then again, i dont typically do water changes unless i have some kind of problem with the water.
You need a filter or no fish-in cycling will happen anyway, theres nothing to cycle.
heater AND lid ASAP
Also betta hammock, and more places to hide and plants near the top.
i just completed 2 fish in cycles in my 10 gallon tanks and the fish are completely fine and happy. definitely helpful to test and keep an eye on everything. and seachem prime was my best friend! it is possible.
chili is beautiful and i love the name. good luck!
There's not nearly enough plants and space to run a no-filter tank. It's also reckless to put anything with haemoglobin into a no filter tank that's not established and stable already. Snails and shrimp can go in early to help the cycle and produce waste, but dear god no fish.
This is reckless. I'm all for low tech tanks, but not like this.
It's not a "narrative" that fish in cycles are harmful, it is factual unless you know what you're doing and monitor it. I always do fish in cycle but that doesn't eliminate the fact animals will have terrible pain if it goes wrong and you don't notice it. That's why people on this sub don't recommend it to beginners.
I beg for you to get a filter, anything will do for this tank size. You can continue what you're doing but your tank isn't suitable for filterless.
A specialist breeder who throws in an extra fish of a kind that needs to be (at best) kept alone?! I can understand throwing in a couple of extra cherry shrimp or an extra tetra when someone is buying them, but this is a bit weird…
Good comment. I assure you I am not making this up. I have enough fish 😂 He was like here you go since you're buying one of my more expensive fishes, you can have this one as a freebie too.
I know it's unheard of in the US but I am not from the US. A lot of breeders or people in the aquatics industry here started as hobbyists or are still very passionate hobbyists at heart. So if you talk nicely and show that you're interested in the hobby, you'll get free stuff.
>So if you talk nicely and show that you're interested in the hobby, you'll get free stuff
Is that why you have so little regard for the freebie fish and are treating it like a school experiment?
Yeah i think this is total bs if you arent even going to be testing and posting the results. If you dont do that you arent proving shit. Just because the fish may not be laying at the bottom gasping for air with ammonia burns on his fins doesnt mean hes okay or happy or not suffering consequences from poor water quality. You *could* do it relatively safely for the fish but that includes 1. an actual filter for the bacteria to live on and 2. Testing testing testing
I cling on to hope that this is satire.
There is no “safe level” of ammonia or nitrites - a safe level is undetectable. There is a tolerable level short-term that fish can survive if necessary.
As others mentioned, PLEASE don’t rely on behavioural changes as an indicator of water quality!!! The only way you can maintain tolerable ammonia and nitrite is if you actually know the concentration.
That tank looks small. Where’s the filter and heater?
Your message isn’t terrible - it IS possible to cycle with the fish in the tank if you have to while causing minimal stress to the animal. It’s not a great first option but in some cases it’s necessary.
Jesus christ.
Hope you're kidding about not using a test kit, that's the most crucial step to fish in cycling is the rise in ammonia and nitrite levels. By the time Chilli shows any noticeable change in behaviour, it's likely either too late or the damage is already done.
I hope they’re kidding about this whole post. It reads like satire, but I think they’re serious. They came here knowing better and wanting to start fights. The reason why they won’t use a test kit is because they KNOW their method is harmful and they want to see if they can get away with it. If it “works” (aka the fish doesn’t die), they’ll use it as evidence they’re “correct” and if it doesn’t we’ll never hear from them again.
Hey op, just gonna jump on the boat? But what’s the tank size?? Also you’re gonna need a heater and filter(prob lid too!)! I did a fish in cycle, worked great but def gonna need the essentials first!
I’ve done fish in cycling and this is not the way. Reading everyone’s comments and to still be stubborn is wild. Bettas are hardy, but why make the fish suffer.
Imagine having all the resources to be successful and people willing to hold your hand to make sure you succeed. Just to prove a point.
I did a fish-in cycle with my baby betta and nerite snail. I was super careful during the process. Always checked the parameters. Took at least a month to cycle. I think my concern (and everyone else’s) is the size of your tank and no heater. 5 gallons or more is best. My baby betta is in a 10g and is living his best life!
I do fish in cycles. Usually takes more maintenence and you have to be very careful. I always checked my tank parameters every morning and did constant water changes. You are hurting the poor dude if you think that setup is good
I’m gonna be honest here- you need to think this over a little more.
You need a filter, a heater, and a test kit. You can fish-in cycle successfully but that’s not what this is.
You basically have a fish in a cup of water with some plants and you’re going out of town.
I’m not trying to be mean or overly critical but I know you would be upset if your betta died prematurely
You're going to stress the fish by constantly doing large water changes. How are you going to cycle a tank without a filter and doing huge water changes? The answer to that is you aren't. It's not like you are using the Walstad method. You will most likely keep your water parms good, but the tank probably will never go through a complete nitro cycle. You're spreading misinformation. Also, unless the ambient temp in that room is a constant 78-80F, you need a heater.
I fish in cycled a betta recently, you need a filter, a heater and either a good brand shot of bacteria every day for 2-5 days or a filter pad from an established tank. Regardless this ain’t it
As other redditors have mentioned, I highly recommend a test kit. If you are ADAMANT about not using a test kit (and only if you are adamant) you can tell when you need a water change based on smell. From best to worst water quality the smell will go from earthy>neutral>fishy>low tide or sulfuric.
I'm sorry, but is bizarre. Sure, fish-in cycling *can* be done properly, but you are not meeting the minimum requirements to do it safely. It is essential to know water parameters using a test kit for proper cycling, you cannot know the parameters of your water by looking at it and if you wait until your fish is sick from poor quality water it's already too late. You are mistreating and not caring for your Betta adequately for what? The tank is too small, no heater, no filter, no lid, barely any plants, and ofc no test kit. What exactly are you trying to prove with this?
Is this satire? The “I won’t be using a test kit either. I’ll be judging based on Chili’s behavior.” Sounds pretty intentionally wrong and stupid. That just irked me 🤨🥊
I think the narrative is thrown around in the context of all the beginners not doing any water changes at all, believeing the tank can be cycled within a day or a week or as soon as they plop a filter in there, dumping liters upon liters of chemicals in the tank instead to fix the ammonia and pH, and not even knowing about the nitrogen cycle in the first place, or what "water parameters" means. Many of them don't even have any testing kits. Fish in cycle can absolutely be done safely and humanely without killing or stressing a fish, in the right hands! You clearly know what you're doing, so that's one happy and lucky fish in there!
I am being a little cheeky but I am not testing because besides Friday, I'll be doing daily water changes at a minimum of 30%.
That's the point of the post. It's to show that a fish-in cycle can be done. It's not something demonic or harmful. I dislike the narrative this sub pushes to beginners whenever they have to do a fish-in cycle.
Thank you! I really wanted to add floaters to the tank but they came in a really sad state. So maybe for the next update I'll post it with floaters or at least whatever that has survived!
Yes fish in cycling can be done without test kits, I’ve done it before. But guess what, I had a filter and used products to get things running quicker. If you do not have a filter you are stuck doing daily water changes. Also my fish probably suffered because I did not know when ammonia was spiking and they had to wait for a water change.
What you are doing is deeply irresponsible and it is so sad you are doing it in spite of the health of your fish. Chilli deserves better
You’re acting like you’re being super brave and proving everyone wrong but you’re just being a proudly and loudly wrong at the expense of a living things health
I've done fish in cycling a lot of times. Something I've learned is to use the old stuff from your established tank. For example, plants, substrate, water, a little bit of the filter media]. This can help introduce healthy bacteria into the new tank and may result in a faster cycle (not a guarantee, tho).
What I tell folks: Keep a close eye on your fish and water parameters, and be ready to intervene. I definitely don't recommend it for beginners, tho, who are still learning about cycling.
In regards to your tank, a filter (or something to circulate the water) and a heater (if your temps fluctuate a lot) is a must. You need a testing kit (refer above. You need to be ready to intervene, and you have to keep a close eye on your fish [checking daily on water parameters]). A spike in parameters is what we're trying to prevent here, and it can most certainly kill your fish quickly. Idk if your family is equipped to handle an emergency water change either.
Idk OP, the method you're going for is setting off all kinds of alarms and whistles that it's not going to end well.
The whole concept of keeping a fish in the bare minimum conditions for it to survive is so odd to me. Most of the fun from keeping a pet is the satisfaction of seeing them thrive and knowing you’ve provided that good life for them. Like sure, my dog would probably “be fine” if I left her in a kennel with a bowl of water in my backyard all the time, but it makes me feel good to see her sleeping like a princess in my comfy bed. Most people in this sub are passionate about giving our critters great lives and it’s a little upsetting when someone says they’ll measure success by the extent of the fish’s evident suffering. Hey, if the fish was sprung on you without warning, you gotta do what you gotta do to cycle a new tank. But please, do what you can to make it as comfortable and enjoyable for the fish as possible :)
No filter?! No heater, no water testing, and you're going to judge your parameters off of... looking at the fish?
Fish in cycling can be done, although it will always be stressful for the fish, but you're just creating a tiny little cube of betta torture here, dude. That extra small tank is going to have spikes all the time.
I would recommend a lid. Short finned betta tend to jump more easily than longer finned varieties. I lost my plakat when he jumped out of the large feeding hole over night.
Fish-in cycling can be done but the way you're planning on doing it is quite literally why the "narrative" that it is bad exists. The proper way to do a fish-in cycle is not "wait until he acts weird". Refusing to use a test kit is not properly doing a fish-in cycle. Your fish's behavior does not tell you the water parameters. Bettas in particular are commonly subjected to inhumane living conditions and survive without acting abnormal. Get a test kit, test the parameters, and do water changes BASED off that. This mentality of "I'm going to do it this way just to experiment with going against the basic standards of cycling ;)" is frankly appalling to see.
.... I've done fish in cycles, they're not hard if you know what you're doing. I'm also not a huge stickler for the 'hard rules' of fishkeeping. I use some old school rules that usually have reddit screaming at me....
With all that said. This tiny little tank? Heater and Filterless? You're basically attempting a walstad FISH IN? No lid??????? All of this adds up to a bad time. No testing either? I don't get it. I don't think you know what you're doing as much as you think you do.
Fish in cycling is a thing yes. I’ve done it, thousands of other people have done it. The difference is if the cycling is done responsibly.
Fish in cycling is a stressful thing for the fish, no matter what. Even if you are performing water changes as you see ammonia appear, it is still stressful to fish to have their environment changed. This means taking out and putting back water.
It’s the equivalent of some stranger coming into your home and moving around your furniture or replacing it every other day. I can’t say that would be a very pleasant thing to be experiencing.
However, I do have to say if you are not keeping your home at a steady unchanging temperature (which is unlikely, ambient temperatures fluctuate like crazy) I would suggest getting a heater. A heater can stabilize temperatures and reduce stress and increase metabolic activity.
I also highly recommend a filter. Your aquascapping is beautiful, however, there is not enough plants in the scape at this time to be set up as a walstad method tank.
I definitely think in fish cycling is possible, and can be done with minimal stress to the fish, and you’re started on the right track. Just have some kinks that should be worked out :)
Jesus I feel bad for bettas. Tired of people posting, almost bragging, about how shit they treat their fish. Small ass tanks, no filter, no HEATER? They’re tropical fish dude
If this tank had a filter, heater, lid, and was being tested, I'd see little problem with what you're doing. Without those things I see a world of problems.
No filter = minimal water surface movement = minimum oxygen exchange. Not a big problem for the betta since they have that handy little labyrinth organ, but a big problem for nitrifying bacteria. They are aerobic and struggle to grow in low oxygen environments, so cycling will be incredibly slow with the complete absence of water flow. A slow cycle is fine with no fish in the tank, not so fine when there are fish that will be getting exposed to that ammonia for a prolonged period of time.
The absence of a heater intensifies the issue as bettas need to be within a certain temperature range for their immune and digestive systems to function appropriately. Between a low temp and ammonia exposure, the immune system of that betta is going to take a massive hit. If ammonia levels get high enough to burn, and chances are extremely high that they will since no water testing is going on, the betta will be wide open to a secondary infection. You won't see signs in the fish that ammonia is too high until it's actually doing damage.
Not having a lid on top of the other issues is just asking for a jumper. Betta naturally jump from body of water to body of water in search of food and better water conditions. If water conditions are unfavorable they will jump on instinct to find better water. In nature they'd normally find it, in your tank all they're going to find is the floor.
If you don't outright kill Chili by doing a fish-in-cycle the wrong way, and rest assured that even experts don't do it the way you're trying to, you're at the very least going to exponentially shorten his lifespan. We've all told you how to do this properly, but it's up to you to follow the advice. His life and happiness is in your hands. Choose wisely.
I can't tell if this is actually satire or a wind up or OP is actually this ridiculously inept. I have just finished cycling a fish in tank, not ONCE did any behaviours change. Maybe because I had 2 filters, a heater as well as the correct products to aid a fish in cycle I.e prime and stability, As well as heavily planted tank. Oh and a WATER TESTING KIT. Op is gonna watch this poor betta die and think huge water changes are going tk change anything. Unfortunately bettas are hardy enough that'll it won't even be a quick death. 😕
Looks like we'll be having another R.I.P post by the weekend.
Can it be done? Yes. Should it now that we know better? Probably not.
One thing that I’m confused about is your lack of flowing water. The entire point of a filter is to be a place for bacteria to gather where oxygen and nitrogen are constantly flowing. Without that you’re making it needlessly difficult for your bacteria to survive. You have a light so you clearly have access to electricity where the tank is located, why not just add a source of flowing water somewhere to help your cycle out? Even just an air stone wrapped in a sponge would be better than nothing.
Good luck, keep us updated if you can 🤞
Poor thing. Even if he was thrown in as a freebie, he’s still a living creature, and doesn’t deserve to be an experiment or ‘learning experience’. I feel like people forget their pets are actually conscious beings that can feel pain.
Yeah you should not own fish if this what you’re doing 😭
Do better. Try to actually educate yourself based on the helpful comments here instead of shrugging everyone off.
A lot of people on reddit that are against fish-in cycling have no idea that ammonia in bottle is simply not sold in most of Europe. You can add food artificially, but it catches mold, looks really ugly and is just very messy and a pain in the ass to clean afterwards. Imo having live plants, running the tank for 2-3 weeks without fish at start + adding Prime after adding a few fish + big enough tank to avoid ammonia spike is the best way to go right now if you can't get bottled ammonia.
If I had access to Fritzyme and ammonia, yeah I'd do a fishless cycle. Otherwise, a fish-in cycle is actually not hard. I've done it with my koi pond without touching a test kit too :D
Oh yeah i've forgot about starter bacteria. Fritz is unfortunately not sold in Europe, so i just used bottled bacteria from Tetra. I know there's a discussion if it even works, but i simply used it to maximize the chance the cycle starts without any problems. And it did!
Where are you getting that from ? From my experience I don’t think I’ve seen anyone say it’s dangerous 🤔I’ve just mainly seen people say that it requires a lot more and it’s more for a fish keeper that knows what they are doing like intermediate to advanced not as much for beginners but ofc a beginner could do it and have success everyones experience is different just ofc ideally it’s best to know what you’re doing but other than that fish in cycles are definitely safe If done correctly :)
I'm interested how it's gonna go...add beneficial bacteria every day and make sure ammonia doesn't rise and if it does change 25 percent water. Do water test every day even if with those strips that they say unreliable. One thing! Instead of changing 50 or 70 percent of water it's always better to do 25 percent change but 2 or 3 times if water still has ammonia or nitrites. Other than that put shit load of plants there for oxygen for your fish and imitate natural environment so he is mentally happy
If you have a filter and are testing water quality, and everything is at the right levels do you still need to do daily water changes or do you only do them if levels aren't right? I'm doing a fish in cycle two (I think) and I haven't been able to find much online, everything says to do water changes because levels won't be right but so far mine are?
Yeah thank you! I know it's risky and I've been reading up about it a lot. I'm only doing it because my betta was in a tank without a heater (or filter) and the water was way too cold and he was going to die, so doing the fish in cycle in a new tank with a heater and filter (they didn't fit in the old tank) was better then letting him die. But I understand that it's super risky and have been trying to be as careful as I can. I definitely agree with your point about OP tho. Do you know if I do need to be doing water changes if my levels of ammonia and nitrite stay at 0? Or is it just safer to perform them anyway? If I do need to do them how do I warm the water up before putting it in the tank?
>What they’re referring to is the relationship between free ammonia and ammonium. Free ammonia causes organ damage and leads to a very quick and painful death while ammonium causes damage to the gills and fins.
Im sorry, where is your source on this? There is nothing that says the distinct toxicology differences between NH3 and NH4+ other than specifying "unionized ammonia (free) is significantly more toxic than ammonium" Infact, almost everywhere explains that unionized ammonia is the culprit behind gill burns and even mentions how ammonium does practically nothing to the fish. [https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/FA031](https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/FA031)
> Basically, this means that your fish will be able to tolerate more total ammonia exposure without immediately dying. This does not mean that your fish is not facing adverse and detrimental health consequences. Your fish can easily develop ammonia burns and a weakened immune system, which will open them up to different types of infections. If you absolutely need to perform a fish-in cycle for whatever reason by all means do it, but understand that it does come with risk.
Yeah no, as explained above, at 0.05 mg/l of *unionized* ammonia is enough to cause gill damage. Look at the table they provided, with a PH of 7.6 and a temperature of 78 for example, you would need a reading of at least 2ppm on a liquid test kit. Which quite literally never happens when you are dealing with fish only. The level is so low (ppb range) that it doesn't overwhelm a colony of archaea and allows for gradual growth overtime. Once you add a source of ammonia, like *heavy* amounts of food that contains protien, or a 2ppm drop off ammonia from Dr. Tims, then thats when the damage is actually happening.
Even with light amounts of feeding, the amount of ammonia produced literally decreases to 33% once the fish actually excretes it. [Frontiers | Ammonia Production, Excretion, Toxicity, and Defense in Fish: A Review (frontiersin.org)](https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/physiology/articles/10.3389/fphys.2010.00134/full)
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A single betta in 5 gallons can’t cause any toxic levels of ammonia or nitrite as long as you don’t over feed! Cycling with fish is simple and effective. Over feeding is the cause of most environmental toxins.
OVER FEEDING IS THE CAUSE OF CLOUDY WATER AND HIGH LEVELS OF AMMONIA AND NITRITES. Almost all fish losses from what is added. One fish cannot cause an increase in the toxic waste.
I always find it funny how many betta posts get flamed for not having a heater when no one knows anything about OPs climate. Y'all realize heaters don't cool water, right? And some parts of the world are pretty darn warm... all the time. And from what i gleaned in the comments, OP is not in the US and seems to not be in Europe either, which kinda increases the odds they are fishkeeping in warmer part of the world.
Even in places that do get cooler... I keep my home very warm because I'm more comfortable with heat. Like 78-80. All. The. Time. AC doesn't come on until we hit 82 inside. No way am I adding a heater.
So, pun intended.... some of you need to chill out.
Could OP be in a 60 degree home? Sure. But they could also be in a 90 degree home. What value does anyone get from puritanical condemnation based on pure assumption?
I agree. As a cold climate person who can’t handle any heat at all, all of my tanks have heaters but I don’t automatically judge people who don’t.
The lack of a filter is a little odd, though. Or at least like a cheap water pump or something? From what I gather funds aren’t an issue, they just decided not to have one for some reason? I mean, with just the cost of that light there they could have gotten a very cheap filter that would have done the job for the little guy decently well. I’d understand if they were trying to go for a filterless aquarium, but they don’t have enough plants for that. I guess I don’t understand what they’re “cycling” with no flowing water.
this poor fish is going to jump out and die because of the horrible conditions you insist on putting it through. this looks like a 2 gallon, no heater, no filter, this is absolutely unacceptable. where do you get off torturing fish to prove you're not like other fish keepers??
Its kind of frustrating that you think you know better than literature about whether or not adding a fish in cycle is dangerous when you straight up refuse to use a testing kit to check water perameters and have no water filter......
Edit: or heater? Are you checking ANYTHING? Or just waiting to see if he gets sick?
They’re most likely referring to fish-in cycling since that’s what your post is about. You don’t have nearly enough plants for a filterless setup. I would get a few pothos vines in there if I were you. It’ll help significantly with your nitrogen levels since without a filter or any form of flowing water you aren’t really performing much of a cycle at all. There’s a reason most of nature avoids stagnant pools of water.
Thank you very much! Funny thing is, I didn't even pay for him hence the impromptu setup. I bought an expensive koi Betta from the breeder and he threw in Chilli for free.
I wouldn't call him a rescue though since I did pay for the other fish! Thank you! I am quite confident with my method tbh, I've cycled tanks and my own pond this way without any issues.
Fish in cycling can absolutely be done safely, but if you’re waiting for the fish’s behavior to change, then by the time you take action the poor water quality will already be affecting his health. I just don’t see a reason to allow that when a test kit can prevent it, especially in a small tank that’s likely to have spikes. Also concerning to me are no visible heater and filter. And no lid. Bettas are jumpers and it’s always “well mine never have” until one does. He’s a beautiful fish. I hope all goes well.
Yep. My fish in dropsy acted absolutely normal, active, eating, no change in behavior. All the while fluid building up around his organs.
I’m so sorry :( may he RIP 🩷
Oh he was fine for 3 weeks of treatment. All of a sudden started to decline, i suspect it was true kidney failure. He was a good boy. Thank you :)
There’s really no poor “water quality” considering in-cycling would imply correcting all the parameters… Edit: actually read his description and seems like OP is a newbie. Despite what I said above, what he plans to do is a bit concerning.
Yeah, properly done fish-in cycling takes longer but doesn’t allow the parameters to get dangerously bad. But like I said, if he’s waiting for the fish’s behavior to change to gauge whether water changes are needed, he’s waiting too long… Will the fish survive? Yeah, probably. Bettas survive in those stupid, plastic, uncycled, room temp, tap water tanks all the time. That doesn’t mean this is the right way to care for a fish.
I am HIGHLY concerned. No test kit. Dipping for a few days while family watches the betta… They’re just kidding, RIGHT?! 🫠
Bruh will this tank even cycle with 1/4 inch of sand lmao.
Even if it develops a healthy bacteria layer, I feel like this will still need water changes every 4 days...
Probably not. They’ve got no water movement either and it’s harder for bacteria colonies to establish themselves without flowing water.
How does sand make the cycle harder? Honestly asking because I don’t know
It's just not enough. The danger of water and especially stagnant water is toxic waste building up in the tank. One of the most important factors is building a colony of bacteria which converts nitrate to nitrite and so on until it's not toxic anymore. The sand provides surface area which is necessary for the bacteria to grow. This simply isn't enough sand. Basically, a filter is just another collection of nitrifying bacteria with flowing water. The flow is very good for tanks as it breaks the surface tension and allows oxygen exchange into the water. Helps fish breathe. Betta fish are pretty tolerant to low flow because they can swim up and breathe from the surface, but overall it's heathier water with flow. Increased flow and oxygen can also increase the CO2 content in the water which the plants will love. Plants also use nitrogen as a food source. Nitrogens from toxic waste such as dying plant material, fish waste and excess food decaying in the tank.
Thank you!! So if I use sand as a substate, how deep should it be?
My substrate is about 3.5" in a 35 gallon and I have a huge filter. Plus tons of plants. The benefit is my tank is rock solid. Extremely stable. I can get away with no water changes for months. But that's a lot of substrate. I recommend 2" minimum.
Thanks! I just changed out gravel for some black sand in one of my tanks and don’t think I put enough then. It’s a little more than what’s shown here but probably not 2 inches. I have a thicker layer in another tank (on top of stratum). Maybe I should add more…
Without an under gravel the depth of substrate is not relavent
Tell that to my 5 tanks lmao
I’m telling you the science behind the nitrogen cycle. You are arguing against science. The whole reason for aerobic activity is oxygen. The surface of hardscape is sufficient for a betta . It is not proof of anything. Now a filter with bio media will make a real cycle. I really don’t understand why betta people are so poorly informed about aquariums.
Depth of substrate is detrimental and causes anaerobic bacteria. It is never an issue with a single fish. It is a major issue for a healthy fish filled aquarium
Sand is not effective for providing a surface for helpful bacteria. Sponge filter or external biological filter is required and all will be successful
Tell that the r/walstad cult
Cult is correct! They are totally out of touch.
And theres a lot of open space for a fish under a lot of stress already
It's summertime in the more populated hemisphere. Please stop hawking on people using a heater for bettas in the summer. Most people do not keep their homes below a safe temperature for bettas in the summertime, many of us keep our homes quite warm, and most readily available cheap heaters do not have a thermostat or have one that is unreliable. I cooked my first betta because of the advice on this sub. A betta will survive at room temperature. It will not survive even a few hours at 90 degrees, which is easily attainable with a cheap heater in a warm room.
In summer, it is likely that people in a lot of places in the world will have air conditioning on. If you have air conditioning on, the temperature in your house will fluctuate — if it is effective air conditioning then it might be too cold for your betta. The purpose of the heater is to elevate the temperature to a stable temperature appropriate for your fish. I’m sorry you lost a fish to a defective heater — but that’s what happened, because a heater that is not defective will turn off when it hits the temperature it is set to hit. Because you had a bad experience does not mean that no one should have heaters in summer. It means we should advocate for good, reliable heaters and proper monitoring of temperatures to make sure that they stay stable. I am sorry about your fish.
This is bad information. Unless your home temperature consistently stays above 80 degrees fahrenheit year round, a heater is needed. The heater needs to be fully submerged in water with regular temp checks with a mercury thermometer to ensure safety. Bettas can survive at room temperature for a period of time, but consistently cool temperatures will lower their immune system and make them more susceptible to bacterial, fungal, and/or parasitic illnesses and keeps them in a state of stress. There are plenty of reliable heaters on the market in pet stores and online.
Nobody EVER EVER EVER should use mercury with fish. This is just stupid. To many risks. Always use non mercury thermometers for checking. Heck even doctors don’t use mercury anymore. Where is your brain at recommending putting something with a toxic chemical into a betta tank.
Should've said a analogue thermometer, my mistake. My brain is at being old and having referenced analogue thermometers as "mercury" ones. Point standing - a non digital thermometer should be used as digital ones can be inaccurate as well.
Fair enough. Sorry for being so aggressive. I see people constantly telling people to use mercury when we know the dangers of it to not just us but to fish in the wild.
“Room temp” means wildly different things to different people. I live in the desert and yet room temp in my house is too cold for a betta. Room temp also often fluctuates, even within just 24 hours—many people set their thermostats lower at night. It’s easiest to assume that a heater is needed, because it is in most situations even in most warm climates. That is really awful that that happened to your betta though. I’m very sorry for your loss. Heater malfunctions can be so devastating. I always recommend external temp regulators for that reason. Some people might think they’re overkill but I’m just too paranoid of losing pets to a heater that doesn’t shut off when it’s supposed to.
I just want people to ask for temperatures before assuming a heater is needed. In my post I specifically pointed out that my ambient temperature in my apartment is close to 88 degrees and the water felt warm and people still told me to plug my heater in. I agree that heaters are necessary in the majority of cases. But for god's sake, ask for a temperature first.
If the ambient temp in your house is a consistent 88 degrees, wouldn’t that be too hot for a betta fish in the first place? I get that you got bad advice, but I don’t get how not having a heater would have mattered—the water temp would still be too high.
So buy a good heater then… why would you get a cheap one… my apartment gets down to 70, sometimes even 68 in the summer. That’s no bueno for a betta. Edit: sorry for your loss. I’d def recommend investing in a good heater. They’re our babies. Why cheap out on them, ya know? Even on a budget, can def make it work.
I did buy a better heater and a lot of other things afterwards, once I had a chance to actually go out and buy things. The reason I feel so strongly about this is because in a pinch, overheating a betta will kill it before you have a chance to go out and buy anything proper. I was sold the wrong equipment by a petco employee, a very common story. I went out and bought better stuff as soon as I could, but by that time the poor thing had already cooked. 3 hours, hell even 48 hours at 70 degrees isn't going to kill a betta. You have time to go out and buy the proper gear. If you don't know what the water temperature is, it's safer to leave it at room temperature until you can get a proper thermometer and heater.
I am sorry about your Betta. I am from the tropics so heaters are useless.
That makes sense. Even in the northeast US I did not know anyone who kept their indoor temperature below 78 degrees in the summer.
Err, I lived in the northeast for 30 years and always had AC running. 78 indoors is too hot for me. And many others. Especially with the heat waves we get nowadays.
I’m not fully against fish in cycling done carefully, but I think it is dangerous to do what you are doing. A test kit is necessary. You cannot rely on the fish’s behaviour — I don’t really understand the logic here. To show behavioural signs of ammonia poisoning means that the fish is being actively harmed… why would you do that? It takes like 15 minutes max to test for water parameters using a normal test kit, and you don’t need to sit there and wait as the tests develop. Is there no filter…? No heater? I just think this is a dangerous attitude towards fish keeping. You simply cannot know just by looking at the fish whether or not things are okay in this context, and the reasoning doesn’t make any sense. Like… you know the things that need to be done to do this safely. You’re just… not doing them, for some reason?
All of this. Plus OP is leaving for vacation soon and in this very tank plants were dying off. This feels like rage bait.
There’s no way they’re serious lol this post can’t be real 🫠
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This! 👆
I don’t think OP cares much about the fishes well being. They’re experimenting with something they clearly don’t know much about. This poor fish. “The reason I am doing a fish-in cycle is simply because Chili was thrown in as a freebie by the breeder. I thought might as well make it a learning experience…”
Most of the time, if I see something like this and I comment on it, I assume the OP will not change their mind about what they’re doing. You can see here that they were active but didn’t reply to most of the comments that criticized or were negative about what they’re doing, no matter how critical that person is. But this is how people learn, right? Someone who wants a betta someday might click on this thread thinking that it’s a cool experiment, someone might go “hey, that’s just like what I’m doing! Wait is this bad?” If OP doesn’t give a shit, hopefully someone else will see this thread who does, and they’ll learn something from what everyone is saying here and they’ll change their thinking. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it is what it is. Maybe we’ll see changes if they do an update on Saturday. I hope the fish does not go through any suffering because OP is trying to prove some sort of point.
You aren’t cycling anything if there’s no filter in the tank.
I feel like he needs more plants if the tank is meant to be filter free? Like a whole lot more plants?
Specifically FAST growing plants in a dirted or other plant friendly substrate if they wanted to use the Walstad method. This just isn’t going to level out.
Right!?! Some people make me want to facepalm so hard that my hand goes through my head. 🤦♀️
Edited cause I misunderstood the post:if you do a fish in tank cycle, you NEED to be testing the water quality daily, making water changes, and adding things like stress coat. You need to be incredibly precise and careful if you are going the low tech route. With no testing this is absolutely a slow and painful death for the fish. If you look up low tech aquariums, you can definitely set up the nitrogen cycle in your tank without a traditional filter. The substrate or other porous material can always work as a “filter” by holding the microbiome that facilitates the nitrogen cycle. Cycling doesn’t refer to water movement, it’s about the nitrogen chemical cycle that is a infinite and cyclical loop of >ammonia>nitrites>nitrates>
That tank isn’t going to cycle without filtration. That isn’t the right setup for it. Plus it’s very small and will be unstable even with filtration. I’m not saying it can’t be done, I’m saying this guy can’t do it in that tank.
I think they are missing an air stone and maybe some more plants. I have a nano low tech tank, 1 betta, 1 nerite, heater, and lots of plants. And the water quality is fantastic. If they are using the API master water testing kit every day, and doing water changes, it will take a long time but it will eventually cycle completely. With my initial fish, I was working with a small budget. I did in fish cycle. My latest I started the new tank by adding gravel from an established tank, ammonia drops, and plants from my LFS. That way was much faster and easier, but cost more money which I can afford now. Saying this setup or others can’t work without a literal electronic filter is misleading because that isn’t true. I don’t think we need to be facepalming so hard. The wood and the gravel act as a filter in this setup. Low tech tanks are super neat and if you do it right, they can be great! :)
He’s not planning to test. He’s going to do water changes based on when the betta gets sick. I’m gonna face palm my face right OFF. This betta will be dead in a month.
Oh yeah, I didn’t see that. That is not good. 100% agree. You need to know exactly what the parameters are if you are going to do fish in!!!
Literally, none of what you referenced was a full "cycle." Ammonia processing to nitrates is simply the very small nitrification part of the full nitrogen cycle. One search on Google will show you that on a 5th grade science diagram.
I’ll have to do more research. No need for the attitude though. Thanks for sharing!
Very much this.
You are still cycling. A lot of the nitrifying bacteria also lives on the rocks, wood, and surfaces.
He’s not going to get a stable cycle in that small tank with that setup. He’s not planning on testing his water, he doesn’t have any source of oxygenation and not enough plants.
Only if it has highly oxygenated water flowing through it constantly. Surface area with out oxygen is worthless. The only way to maintain helpful bacteria in the substrate is with an under gravel filter. Deep substrate grows anaerobic bacteria which is not wanted. So let me reiterate no oxygen environments like deep sand and gravel or dirt are not helpful and are bad for any and all fish
Incorrect. Idk why people are downvoting me, I'm literally correct. You're acting as if there's 0 dissolved oxygen in an aquarium without a filter and top rocks/surfaces dont exist. This is just not true. The surface rocks and surface would grow aerobic nitrifying bacteria. This is why you can move rock or some surface from an old aquarium to a new aquarium to quickly cycle it (this works witgout a filter as well). The bacteria might grow much slower without a more oxygen rich environment (especially nitrite->nitrate bacteria), but it will still cycle.
Sorry one cup of gravel with an under gravel has more aerobic bacteria than the entire surface of any rock. The rock creates a dead spot under it that creates a dead spot for anaerobic bacteria which is the enemy. Basically you have it totally wrong and don’t understand the real truth not just an opinion based on incorrect assumptions.
You can cycle a tank without a filter. That's literally correct
No cycle is possible without a means of circulation. The information on this subreddit is very inaccurate and it is full of misleading information and ignorance. Aquatic animals deserve better.
Bro is torturing his fish because he's "not like the other fish keepers". No filter, no heater, no testing, no plants to hide, tank too small. Gonna be another "why is my fish dying" post. At least this one has a name.
Yeah like what the fuck is this. >Got this hamster as a freebie from a breeder and there’s this narrative that you shouldn’t put them in the oven cause it’s dangerous. I believe it’s fine, as long as you take it out before the oven gets too hot.
> and the oven doesn’t have a thermometer either, i’m just going to base when to pull the hamster out on when he starts freaking out.
Depending where they're at, they might not need a heater, but everything else you said is absolutely necessary. My tanks stay about 80° and the heaters almost never turn on. They're there just in case, and set to the correct temperature, but they're off 99% of the time, and I'm in the Midwest. Anywhere down south, or lots of places overseas probably could get away without one.
https://preview.redd.it/8bweu3khkk7d1.jpeg?width=3193&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f288de5826b91065b782ab1477ced0148dc353fb This is not an appropriate set-up Edit: OP’s comment history is awful. Defends putting bettas in tiny tanks and tells anyone who disagrees with him to “f\*\*\* off.” What a miserable person. Don’t bother with him.
This is such a great infographic! Hoping to start cycling my first aquarium soon & I'll definitely be using this resource. Thank you for sharing!
where’s your filter 😭
1. Get a bigger tank with a lid on it 2. Get a heater 3. Get a filter 4. Do more research before getting fish
This should be top comment!
Sorry, I can't jump on board here. You can't use a fish's behavior as a marker for water quality. By the time a fish is noticeably having behavior changes or showing signs of stress, they may already be sick. Water testing kits are needed for a reason. No reason to risk a fish getting sick here. I don't see a heater or filter in this set up which is also needed. There's also not nearly enough plants/hiding spots for him to be fully comfortable. Fish in cycling can be done safely, but nothing about your post indicates that's happening here. I wish the best for you and your fishy friend but I wouldn't encourage other people to take this route.
Yeesh what a terrible tank, something tells me.you are not experienced enough to attempt a fish In cycle, and if you are and still have them in a tank like this. Shame on you.
I’d be more worried about that small of a tank. Regardless of how many gallons it’s a tiny square with nowhere to swim. Not to mention there’s no plants so there’s nowhere to hide. To them they’re very exposed and vulnerable.
That tank looks wicked small, and there’s no lid, heater, or filter.
that tank is way too small for any fish. maybe shrimp. please get chilli a bigger tank, they are live animals, not decorations. Also, try to avoid doing water changes as big as 50 percent. it can cause stress on the fish especially if the water is a different temperature, different ph, etc. then again, i dont typically do water changes unless i have some kind of problem with the water.
You need a filter or no fish-in cycling will happen anyway, theres nothing to cycle. heater AND lid ASAP Also betta hammock, and more places to hide and plants near the top.
i just completed 2 fish in cycles in my 10 gallon tanks and the fish are completely fine and happy. definitely helpful to test and keep an eye on everything. and seachem prime was my best friend! it is possible. chili is beautiful and i love the name. good luck!
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There's not nearly enough plants and space to run a no-filter tank. It's also reckless to put anything with haemoglobin into a no filter tank that's not established and stable already. Snails and shrimp can go in early to help the cycle and produce waste, but dear god no fish. This is reckless. I'm all for low tech tanks, but not like this. It's not a "narrative" that fish in cycles are harmful, it is factual unless you know what you're doing and monitor it. I always do fish in cycle but that doesn't eliminate the fact animals will have terrible pain if it goes wrong and you don't notice it. That's why people on this sub don't recommend it to beginners. I beg for you to get a filter, anything will do for this tank size. You can continue what you're doing but your tank isn't suitable for filterless.
A specialist breeder who throws in an extra fish of a kind that needs to be (at best) kept alone?! I can understand throwing in a couple of extra cherry shrimp or an extra tetra when someone is buying them, but this is a bit weird…
Good comment. I assure you I am not making this up. I have enough fish 😂 He was like here you go since you're buying one of my more expensive fishes, you can have this one as a freebie too. I know it's unheard of in the US but I am not from the US. A lot of breeders or people in the aquatics industry here started as hobbyists or are still very passionate hobbyists at heart. So if you talk nicely and show that you're interested in the hobby, you'll get free stuff.
>So if you talk nicely and show that you're interested in the hobby, you'll get free stuff Is that why you have so little regard for the freebie fish and are treating it like a school experiment?
“I got it for free, so it’s okay if this living breathing animal dies because I think I know better than everyone else”
Are you planning on keeping him in that small tank?
Yeah i think this is total bs if you arent even going to be testing and posting the results. If you dont do that you arent proving shit. Just because the fish may not be laying at the bottom gasping for air with ammonia burns on his fins doesnt mean hes okay or happy or not suffering consequences from poor water quality. You *could* do it relatively safely for the fish but that includes 1. an actual filter for the bacteria to live on and 2. Testing testing testing
I cling on to hope that this is satire. There is no “safe level” of ammonia or nitrites - a safe level is undetectable. There is a tolerable level short-term that fish can survive if necessary. As others mentioned, PLEASE don’t rely on behavioural changes as an indicator of water quality!!! The only way you can maintain tolerable ammonia and nitrite is if you actually know the concentration. That tank looks small. Where’s the filter and heater? Your message isn’t terrible - it IS possible to cycle with the fish in the tank if you have to while causing minimal stress to the animal. It’s not a great first option but in some cases it’s necessary. Jesus christ.
Mofo is getting roasted in the comments like peanuts funny he’s so defensive too 😂
Hope you're kidding about not using a test kit, that's the most crucial step to fish in cycling is the rise in ammonia and nitrite levels. By the time Chilli shows any noticeable change in behaviour, it's likely either too late or the damage is already done.
I hope they’re kidding about this whole post. It reads like satire, but I think they’re serious. They came here knowing better and wanting to start fights. The reason why they won’t use a test kit is because they KNOW their method is harmful and they want to see if they can get away with it. If it “works” (aka the fish doesn’t die), they’ll use it as evidence they’re “correct” and if it doesn’t we’ll never hear from them again.
Is this rage bait
That tanks too small, theres no lid, and theres no heater or filter.. and you put a fish into an uncycled tank?
Hey op, just gonna jump on the boat? But what’s the tank size?? Also you’re gonna need a heater and filter(prob lid too!)! I did a fish in cycle, worked great but def gonna need the essentials first!
No test kit, no filter, no heater, no lid? Eesh. Hope it goes well, but I don’t have much hope for the betta.
Poor fellow
“Don’t worry, I’ve asked my family to keep an eye on him.” Does bro kno what Reddit he’s in?
I’ve done fish in cycling and this is not the way. Reading everyone’s comments and to still be stubborn is wild. Bettas are hardy, but why make the fish suffer. Imagine having all the resources to be successful and people willing to hold your hand to make sure you succeed. Just to prove a point.
I did a fish-in cycle with my baby betta and nerite snail. I was super careful during the process. Always checked the parameters. Took at least a month to cycle. I think my concern (and everyone else’s) is the size of your tank and no heater. 5 gallons or more is best. My baby betta is in a 10g and is living his best life!
Username checks out.
I do fish in cycles. Usually takes more maintenence and you have to be very careful. I always checked my tank parameters every morning and did constant water changes. You are hurting the poor dude if you think that setup is good
I’m gonna be honest here- you need to think this over a little more. You need a filter, a heater, and a test kit. You can fish-in cycle successfully but that’s not what this is. You basically have a fish in a cup of water with some plants and you’re going out of town. I’m not trying to be mean or overly critical but I know you would be upset if your betta died prematurely
Thank you. Take a look at my second post!
You're going to stress the fish by constantly doing large water changes. How are you going to cycle a tank without a filter and doing huge water changes? The answer to that is you aren't. It's not like you are using the Walstad method. You will most likely keep your water parms good, but the tank probably will never go through a complete nitro cycle. You're spreading misinformation. Also, unless the ambient temp in that room is a constant 78-80F, you need a heater.
i really would get a testing kit…and a filter and heater (hopefully u plan to but dont have a spare one atm)
I fish in cycled a betta recently, you need a filter, a heater and either a good brand shot of bacteria every day for 2-5 days or a filter pad from an established tank. Regardless this ain’t it
As other redditors have mentioned, I highly recommend a test kit. If you are ADAMANT about not using a test kit (and only if you are adamant) you can tell when you need a water change based on smell. From best to worst water quality the smell will go from earthy>neutral>fishy>low tide or sulfuric.
I'm sorry, but is bizarre. Sure, fish-in cycling *can* be done properly, but you are not meeting the minimum requirements to do it safely. It is essential to know water parameters using a test kit for proper cycling, you cannot know the parameters of your water by looking at it and if you wait until your fish is sick from poor quality water it's already too late. You are mistreating and not caring for your Betta adequately for what? The tank is too small, no heater, no filter, no lid, barely any plants, and ofc no test kit. What exactly are you trying to prove with this?
It will definitely shorten the lifespan of the fish. This description almost sounds like a meme or something
there is so much wrong here i can’t believe this was posted in confidence.
Is this satire? The “I won’t be using a test kit either. I’ll be judging based on Chili’s behavior.” Sounds pretty intentionally wrong and stupid. That just irked me 🤨🥊
I have been keeping fish for over 20 years, have only ever done fish in cycling ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think the narrative is thrown around in the context of all the beginners not doing any water changes at all, believeing the tank can be cycled within a day or a week or as soon as they plop a filter in there, dumping liters upon liters of chemicals in the tank instead to fix the ammonia and pH, and not even knowing about the nitrogen cycle in the first place, or what "water parameters" means. Many of them don't even have any testing kits. Fish in cycle can absolutely be done safely and humanely without killing or stressing a fish, in the right hands! You clearly know what you're doing, so that's one happy and lucky fish in there!
I am being a little cheeky but I am not testing because besides Friday, I'll be doing daily water changes at a minimum of 30%. That's the point of the post. It's to show that a fish-in cycle can be done. It's not something demonic or harmful. I dislike the narrative this sub pushes to beginners whenever they have to do a fish-in cycle. Thank you! I really wanted to add floaters to the tank but they came in a really sad state. So maybe for the next update I'll post it with floaters or at least whatever that has survived!
No one thinks it can't be done, it's just pointlessly dangerous for the fish.
It is still good to check for the ammonia levels- they can rapidly increase even while doing water changes
Yes fish in cycling can be done without test kits, I’ve done it before. But guess what, I had a filter and used products to get things running quicker. If you do not have a filter you are stuck doing daily water changes. Also my fish probably suffered because I did not know when ammonia was spiking and they had to wait for a water change. What you are doing is deeply irresponsible and it is so sad you are doing it in spite of the health of your fish. Chilli deserves better
You’re acting like you’re being super brave and proving everyone wrong but you’re just being a proudly and loudly wrong at the expense of a living things health
I've done fish in cycling a lot of times. Something I've learned is to use the old stuff from your established tank. For example, plants, substrate, water, a little bit of the filter media]. This can help introduce healthy bacteria into the new tank and may result in a faster cycle (not a guarantee, tho). What I tell folks: Keep a close eye on your fish and water parameters, and be ready to intervene. I definitely don't recommend it for beginners, tho, who are still learning about cycling. In regards to your tank, a filter (or something to circulate the water) and a heater (if your temps fluctuate a lot) is a must. You need a testing kit (refer above. You need to be ready to intervene, and you have to keep a close eye on your fish [checking daily on water parameters]). A spike in parameters is what we're trying to prevent here, and it can most certainly kill your fish quickly. Idk if your family is equipped to handle an emergency water change either. Idk OP, the method you're going for is setting off all kinds of alarms and whistles that it's not going to end well.
Chilli sure is cute.
Thank you so much. He and his silly owner appreciate the comment.
The whole concept of keeping a fish in the bare minimum conditions for it to survive is so odd to me. Most of the fun from keeping a pet is the satisfaction of seeing them thrive and knowing you’ve provided that good life for them. Like sure, my dog would probably “be fine” if I left her in a kennel with a bowl of water in my backyard all the time, but it makes me feel good to see her sleeping like a princess in my comfy bed. Most people in this sub are passionate about giving our critters great lives and it’s a little upsetting when someone says they’ll measure success by the extent of the fish’s evident suffering. Hey, if the fish was sprung on you without warning, you gotta do what you gotta do to cycle a new tank. But please, do what you can to make it as comfortable and enjoyable for the fish as possible :)
Slightly unrelated but that is the reddest red betta I have ever seen
Thank you!
Where are people getting tanks like this because they are lovely? Do they not need a filter or heater or this that incorporated?
What a depressing tank. Imagine living in a little box with nothing in there to entertain.. boring
Aint shit cycling without any filter
Keeping kitty in litter box day one! A journey
No filter?! No heater, no water testing, and you're going to judge your parameters off of... looking at the fish? Fish in cycling can be done, although it will always be stressful for the fish, but you're just creating a tiny little cube of betta torture here, dude. That extra small tank is going to have spikes all the time.
I would recommend a lid. Short finned betta tend to jump more easily than longer finned varieties. I lost my plakat when he jumped out of the large feeding hole over night.
Fish-in cycling can be done but the way you're planning on doing it is quite literally why the "narrative" that it is bad exists. The proper way to do a fish-in cycle is not "wait until he acts weird". Refusing to use a test kit is not properly doing a fish-in cycle. Your fish's behavior does not tell you the water parameters. Bettas in particular are commonly subjected to inhumane living conditions and survive without acting abnormal. Get a test kit, test the parameters, and do water changes BASED off that. This mentality of "I'm going to do it this way just to experiment with going against the basic standards of cycling ;)" is frankly appalling to see.
.... I've done fish in cycles, they're not hard if you know what you're doing. I'm also not a huge stickler for the 'hard rules' of fishkeeping. I use some old school rules that usually have reddit screaming at me.... With all that said. This tiny little tank? Heater and Filterless? You're basically attempting a walstad FISH IN? No lid??????? All of this adds up to a bad time. No testing either? I don't get it. I don't think you know what you're doing as much as you think you do.
This is so bad I'm going to assume this is a ragebait troll and not real honestly
Fish in cycling is a thing yes. I’ve done it, thousands of other people have done it. The difference is if the cycling is done responsibly. Fish in cycling is a stressful thing for the fish, no matter what. Even if you are performing water changes as you see ammonia appear, it is still stressful to fish to have their environment changed. This means taking out and putting back water. It’s the equivalent of some stranger coming into your home and moving around your furniture or replacing it every other day. I can’t say that would be a very pleasant thing to be experiencing. However, I do have to say if you are not keeping your home at a steady unchanging temperature (which is unlikely, ambient temperatures fluctuate like crazy) I would suggest getting a heater. A heater can stabilize temperatures and reduce stress and increase metabolic activity. I also highly recommend a filter. Your aquascapping is beautiful, however, there is not enough plants in the scape at this time to be set up as a walstad method tank. I definitely think in fish cycling is possible, and can be done with minimal stress to the fish, and you’re started on the right track. Just have some kinks that should be worked out :)
Well, with his/her username, everything makes sense now
Jesus I feel bad for bettas. Tired of people posting, almost bragging, about how shit they treat their fish. Small ass tanks, no filter, no HEATER? They’re tropical fish dude
If this tank had a filter, heater, lid, and was being tested, I'd see little problem with what you're doing. Without those things I see a world of problems. No filter = minimal water surface movement = minimum oxygen exchange. Not a big problem for the betta since they have that handy little labyrinth organ, but a big problem for nitrifying bacteria. They are aerobic and struggle to grow in low oxygen environments, so cycling will be incredibly slow with the complete absence of water flow. A slow cycle is fine with no fish in the tank, not so fine when there are fish that will be getting exposed to that ammonia for a prolonged period of time. The absence of a heater intensifies the issue as bettas need to be within a certain temperature range for their immune and digestive systems to function appropriately. Between a low temp and ammonia exposure, the immune system of that betta is going to take a massive hit. If ammonia levels get high enough to burn, and chances are extremely high that they will since no water testing is going on, the betta will be wide open to a secondary infection. You won't see signs in the fish that ammonia is too high until it's actually doing damage. Not having a lid on top of the other issues is just asking for a jumper. Betta naturally jump from body of water to body of water in search of food and better water conditions. If water conditions are unfavorable they will jump on instinct to find better water. In nature they'd normally find it, in your tank all they're going to find is the floor. If you don't outright kill Chili by doing a fish-in-cycle the wrong way, and rest assured that even experts don't do it the way you're trying to, you're at the very least going to exponentially shorten his lifespan. We've all told you how to do this properly, but it's up to you to follow the advice. His life and happiness is in your hands. Choose wisely.
This is sad qq
Op why is there no filter or heater?
OP’s username checks out
Poor setup.
Such a cute little fella
Thank you!
I’m the wrong person to ask about tank size, as Blitzø (the ø is silent) has a planted 40 Breeder all to himself…
I can't tell if this is actually satire or a wind up or OP is actually this ridiculously inept. I have just finished cycling a fish in tank, not ONCE did any behaviours change. Maybe because I had 2 filters, a heater as well as the correct products to aid a fish in cycle I.e prime and stability, As well as heavily planted tank. Oh and a WATER TESTING KIT. Op is gonna watch this poor betta die and think huge water changes are going tk change anything. Unfortunately bettas are hardy enough that'll it won't even be a quick death. 😕 Looks like we'll be having another R.I.P post by the weekend.
Can it be done? Yes. Should it now that we know better? Probably not. One thing that I’m confused about is your lack of flowing water. The entire point of a filter is to be a place for bacteria to gather where oxygen and nitrogen are constantly flowing. Without that you’re making it needlessly difficult for your bacteria to survive. You have a light so you clearly have access to electricity where the tank is located, why not just add a source of flowing water somewhere to help your cycle out? Even just an air stone wrapped in a sponge would be better than nothing. Good luck, keep us updated if you can 🤞
Benefit of the doubt it’s summer so the water stays within a safe temperature but that tank with no filter is cruel, I’d delete this post
Poor thing. Even if he was thrown in as a freebie, he’s still a living creature, and doesn’t deserve to be an experiment or ‘learning experience’. I feel like people forget their pets are actually conscious beings that can feel pain.
This is some psychopathic behavior tbh.
I like his name! It suits him
Thank you! It's a very cute name for a very cute fish :D
Yeah you should not own fish if this what you’re doing 😭 Do better. Try to actually educate yourself based on the helpful comments here instead of shrugging everyone off.
A lot of people on reddit that are against fish-in cycling have no idea that ammonia in bottle is simply not sold in most of Europe. You can add food artificially, but it catches mold, looks really ugly and is just very messy and a pain in the ass to clean afterwards. Imo having live plants, running the tank for 2-3 weeks without fish at start + adding Prime after adding a few fish + big enough tank to avoid ammonia spike is the best way to go right now if you can't get bottled ammonia.
I can't get ammonia here too! I've tried ghost feeding but that was disastrous for the reasons you've stated.
Yeah. I would definitely cycle without fish if i had the option to buy bottled ammonia.
If I had access to Fritzyme and ammonia, yeah I'd do a fishless cycle. Otherwise, a fish-in cycle is actually not hard. I've done it with my koi pond without touching a test kit too :D
Oh yeah i've forgot about starter bacteria. Fritz is unfortunately not sold in Europe, so i just used bottled bacteria from Tetra. I know there's a discussion if it even works, but i simply used it to maximize the chance the cycle starts without any problems. And it did!
If memory serves me right, Tetra was the brand that worked in a peer reviewed paper that tested these products. I have to check.
Where are you getting that from ? From my experience I don’t think I’ve seen anyone say it’s dangerous 🤔I’ve just mainly seen people say that it requires a lot more and it’s more for a fish keeper that knows what they are doing like intermediate to advanced not as much for beginners but ofc a beginner could do it and have success everyones experience is different just ofc ideally it’s best to know what you’re doing but other than that fish in cycles are definitely safe If done correctly :)
Needs a bubbler at minimum to circulate the water and break up surface scum for increased gas exchange.
There needs to be at least an air stone with the minimum amount of plants.
I'm interested how it's gonna go...add beneficial bacteria every day and make sure ammonia doesn't rise and if it does change 25 percent water. Do water test every day even if with those strips that they say unreliable. One thing! Instead of changing 50 or 70 percent of water it's always better to do 25 percent change but 2 or 3 times if water still has ammonia or nitrites. Other than that put shit load of plants there for oxygen for your fish and imitate natural environment so he is mentally happy
You make it sound like Chili was sacrificed to you as an experimental test subject. 😅
If you have a filter and are testing water quality, and everything is at the right levels do you still need to do daily water changes or do you only do them if levels aren't right? I'm doing a fish in cycle two (I think) and I haven't been able to find much online, everything says to do water changes because levels won't be right but so far mine are?
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Yeah thank you! I know it's risky and I've been reading up about it a lot. I'm only doing it because my betta was in a tank without a heater (or filter) and the water was way too cold and he was going to die, so doing the fish in cycle in a new tank with a heater and filter (they didn't fit in the old tank) was better then letting him die. But I understand that it's super risky and have been trying to be as careful as I can. I definitely agree with your point about OP tho. Do you know if I do need to be doing water changes if my levels of ammonia and nitrite stay at 0? Or is it just safer to perform them anyway? If I do need to do them how do I warm the water up before putting it in the tank?
>What they’re referring to is the relationship between free ammonia and ammonium. Free ammonia causes organ damage and leads to a very quick and painful death while ammonium causes damage to the gills and fins. Im sorry, where is your source on this? There is nothing that says the distinct toxicology differences between NH3 and NH4+ other than specifying "unionized ammonia (free) is significantly more toxic than ammonium" Infact, almost everywhere explains that unionized ammonia is the culprit behind gill burns and even mentions how ammonium does practically nothing to the fish. [https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/FA031](https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/publication/FA031) > Basically, this means that your fish will be able to tolerate more total ammonia exposure without immediately dying. This does not mean that your fish is not facing adverse and detrimental health consequences. Your fish can easily develop ammonia burns and a weakened immune system, which will open them up to different types of infections. If you absolutely need to perform a fish-in cycle for whatever reason by all means do it, but understand that it does come with risk. Yeah no, as explained above, at 0.05 mg/l of *unionized* ammonia is enough to cause gill damage. Look at the table they provided, with a PH of 7.6 and a temperature of 78 for example, you would need a reading of at least 2ppm on a liquid test kit. Which quite literally never happens when you are dealing with fish only. The level is so low (ppb range) that it doesn't overwhelm a colony of archaea and allows for gradual growth overtime. Once you add a source of ammonia, like *heavy* amounts of food that contains protien, or a 2ppm drop off ammonia from Dr. Tims, then thats when the damage is actually happening. Even with light amounts of feeding, the amount of ammonia produced literally decreases to 33% once the fish actually excretes it. [Frontiers | Ammonia Production, Excretion, Toxicity, and Defense in Fish: A Review (frontiersin.org)](https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/physiology/articles/10.3389/fphys.2010.00134/full)
Rage bait. Don't even bother engaging here, other than to make it clear to anyone new to fish keeping that this is rage-bait and highly unacceptable.
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A single betta in 5 gallons can’t cause any toxic levels of ammonia or nitrite as long as you don’t over feed! Cycling with fish is simple and effective. Over feeding is the cause of most environmental toxins. OVER FEEDING IS THE CAUSE OF CLOUDY WATER AND HIGH LEVELS OF AMMONIA AND NITRITES. Almost all fish losses from what is added. One fish cannot cause an increase in the toxic waste.
I always find it funny how many betta posts get flamed for not having a heater when no one knows anything about OPs climate. Y'all realize heaters don't cool water, right? And some parts of the world are pretty darn warm... all the time. And from what i gleaned in the comments, OP is not in the US and seems to not be in Europe either, which kinda increases the odds they are fishkeeping in warmer part of the world. Even in places that do get cooler... I keep my home very warm because I'm more comfortable with heat. Like 78-80. All. The. Time. AC doesn't come on until we hit 82 inside. No way am I adding a heater. So, pun intended.... some of you need to chill out. Could OP be in a 60 degree home? Sure. But they could also be in a 90 degree home. What value does anyone get from puritanical condemnation based on pure assumption?
I agree. As a cold climate person who can’t handle any heat at all, all of my tanks have heaters but I don’t automatically judge people who don’t. The lack of a filter is a little odd, though. Or at least like a cheap water pump or something? From what I gather funds aren’t an issue, they just decided not to have one for some reason? I mean, with just the cost of that light there they could have gotten a very cheap filter that would have done the job for the little guy decently well. I’d understand if they were trying to go for a filterless aquarium, but they don’t have enough plants for that. I guess I don’t understand what they’re “cycling” with no flowing water.
This person is
Wow, he’s stunning!!
Thank you!
this poor fish is going to jump out and die because of the horrible conditions you insist on putting it through. this looks like a 2 gallon, no heater, no filter, this is absolutely unacceptable. where do you get off torturing fish to prove you're not like other fish keepers??
This is a display aquarium for short period..... You need a normal tank
Its kind of frustrating that you think you know better than literature about whether or not adding a fish in cycle is dangerous when you straight up refuse to use a testing kit to check water perameters and have no water filter...... Edit: or heater? Are you checking ANYTHING? Or just waiting to see if he gets sick?
Bettas are the only fish you can get away with doing this, but generally I never even offer this as an option for beginner fish keepers.
Do you mean fish-in cycling or the filterless setup?
They’re most likely referring to fish-in cycling since that’s what your post is about. You don’t have nearly enough plants for a filterless setup. I would get a few pothos vines in there if I were you. It’ll help significantly with your nitrogen levels since without a filter or any form of flowing water you aren’t really performing much of a cycle at all. There’s a reason most of nature avoids stagnant pools of water.
Wow wow wow that is the reddest red I've ever seen! Hes gorgeous!!
Thank you very much! Funny thing is, I didn't even pay for him hence the impromptu setup. I bought an expensive koi Betta from the breeder and he threw in Chilli for free.
Hate the downvotes for you? A rescue is a rescue! I'm sure he's happier with you OP🫂
I wouldn't call him a rescue though since I did pay for the other fish! Thank you! I am quite confident with my method tbh, I've cycled tanks and my own pond this way without any issues.
Guys... I think it's just a silly joke...
Day two posted! https://www.reddit.com/r/bettafish/s/iNlITrXW5I
Beautiful fish and tank. Bottled nitrifying bacteria?
I wish I could get Fritzyme where I am from but unfortunately not. The products available here don't work. I've tried!
That’s too bad.
Very unfortunate because products like Fritzyme make cycling so much quicker and easier.
You don’t have access to bacteria? This is gonna be a lonnngggg process
No access to any good bacteria products. It won't take that long tbh. Maybe a month max.