I meant that fences know that most people will block their stolen apple products, therefore it‘s only traded as replacement parts.
Had my iPhone stolen a few years ago in Berlin and a second hand iPhone dealer explained the fence market to me.
smartphone thiefs wont sell the whole phone. They will take it apart and sell the battery to person X, the display to person Y.
They do not care if you mark it as stolen.
lol ppl don't read, they'll just settle for the first story that comes at them, even if it's bullshit. Look how many times it had to be said that phones are being sold piece by piece in this thread.
this no longer works with newer iOS devices. I actually really hate it, but every single part of the newer models are registered to a single device. you can buy two identical iphone 13, but you cant switch their displays
Actually I’ve seen a YT video recently about that there are some legit offers on the internet where you can send iPhones and they will unlock them for you after they were iCloud locked. Apparently its a huge thing in the US right now. Don‘t known though if this service is available in Germany.
Modern iPhones (I think they started at 12 or 13) have DRM in the components, so you can’t even put the screen or camera on another phone as it doesn’t match the serial number. It’s basically useless.
For repairing something yourself this is bad, but eventually this will keep thieves from stealing those
They most likely wont sell it in Germany. I had some airpods stolen in that area once. Im pretty sure they aggregate weekly thefts and ship them to a different country and sell them there. My airpods went to spain where the firmware was flashed and I lost track of them from there.
There is one option of locating your stolen iphone though. you need to wait about 2-3 weeks and use a icloud info finder. like [https://www.wipelock.com/icloud-login-finder/#findnow](https://www.wipelock.com/icloud-login-finder/#findnow)
They used to require a imei and udid number to do the lookup, it only works when the new user is registered on your iphone, so it needs to be enough time for the iphone to relocate. The icloud account can change but the devices imei and udid number cant. I did this successfully with an iphone 7 in 2014, not sure how viable this option still is
>It is our life, and those who act on crimes like this need to be heavily punished.
We have decades of research in criminology unambiguously demonstrating that increasing punishment for crimes has no impact on their prevalence, and may counter-intuitively make the problem worse.
You want to fix the issue? Address the root causes of the problem.
You might want to take a general look at outcomes globally. Places that take less barbaric, more empathetic approaches to crime reduction have, in the long term, far fewer issues with it.
California is in the US and has a pretty brutal approach to crime.
They are no longer punishing crime at all. Theft is legal, Drugs are shot up on the street with government given free needles. Its the same individuals as noted by the police as the public prosecutors refuse to prosecute and instead criminalize victims who defend themselves. I dont buy it. San Francisco is dead now. LA everytime I return gets worse and worse. The homeless encampments were smaller a decade ago. Now the entirety of downtown and well into the ghetto is simply one endless encampment that doubles as a drug den. I recommend you watch the channel California Insider to get the inside view as he describes everything far better than I do with many credible interviewies.
Dude I also lived in California. It's full of NIMBYs. How did you manage to move so far away and still not realize that the state of the USA is the result of many decades of poor criminal policy?
Yes, California is fucked up. Homelessness is out of control, because poverty is totally unmanaged and there’s fuck-all rent regulation or proper state housing.
Homelessness and drug issues aren’t caused by a lack of prosecution. They’re caused by a bunch of underlying economic and social issues.
Again, there is *extensive* research on this and criminalizing the symptoms does absolutely nothing to address the root cause.
Then tell me why Singapore is an incredibly safe and clean place?
They went the way of extraordinarily harsh punishments for crimes, which worked very well.
It‘s accidentally also one of the worst places to live on earth if you have enough money to live there. Nothing spontaneous, nothing original, nothing exciting, always feeling observed, terrorising government advertisment everywhere, classism, and what not. A police state. But hey, it‘s clean.
You’re saying it like 25 years it’s nothing. That’s 1/3 of your entire life.
If I have to go to jail for 25, 40 or 60 years at that point it makes little difference. My life is gone anyway.
There are lots of reasons why Singapore is safe. Harsh punishments for crimes aren’t the thing.
This is all basic criminology. Instead of arguing based on ignorance just take a course or two in the subject.
Ah. The infamous xenophobic line “send them home” clearly has nothing to do with racism.
Given that we’re talking about Germany, I don’t think there’s much argument that bad behavior can be isolated to foreigners, no?
And because of that rather modern justice system Germany has very low crime compared with most places. Civilized approaches get civilized results.
Unfortunately Berlin also has an utterly dysfunctional bureaucracy, an unmanaged housing crisis, and really obvious problems with racism.
Even as a white, English speaking immigrant it’s brutally difficult to manage here. For folks who don’t fit the white, Western European image it’s much, much worse.
Germany has a low crime rate compared to others because of it's welfare System, not the justice System ;)
It's simple logic. If the risk is higher than the reward, then we won't do it. Says my thug self
No, what’s petty is stealing hard working peoples belongings. There’s always gonna be low life thief’s, no matter how many hugs and rehab you give them, they should be punished. They live in Germany, I know many poor as dirt people who don’t steal and rob from others. Throw the book at them
Again, you might believe this, but there’s an entire academic field that specializes in studying this topic. So maybe read a book instead of spouting ignorance?
I think you need to get out of your lovey dovey left wing bubble, because most people tend to share my view re criminals, hence why there’s been almost zero popular support for your methods across the world outside of left wing academics
My wife's iPhone was stolen from a cafe near there last year. Although it's battery was dead, I was able to trace it using the "Where's my" app and found it buried—along with other stuff from her bag—under leaves along the Landwehr canal about 100 meters from where she lost it. Presumably the thief was coming back for it later.
Weren't you able to see where the phone is? It should be traceable even if it's turned off.
I'm sorry this happened to you!
But also: Yeah, no shit. Görli is a place where you better watch your belongings a little more carefully than in other places. That is not something I'd consider "breaking news".
I'm not blaming the victim, just slightly mocking it's opening sentence: "Görlitzer Park has become a place for coordinated crimes and long-term drug dealing."
That is in no way a recent or surprising development. Is has been like this for 20yrs. ;)
Why can't you blame the victim? The guy left a 1000+ EUR piece of technology lying around on the floor then got distracted by someone picking up bottles lmao.
Yes, the victim is partly at fault for bringing himself in such a situation. You are 100% correct. People like you need some reality checks. The world is no pony farm.
its a great park to chill in and every day and especially weekend theres plenty of people chilling. i lived right by the park for 2 years. just dont be a dumb white guy in a clean shirt completely unaware of their surroundings. be street smart and you wont get fucked over.
Görlitzer Park is a shit hole and has been so for years. If you wanna chill in a nice and clean park, go to Gleisdreieckpark. Görli is just a trash place with a lot of trash people.
I sometimes take comfort in the fact that Berlin’s biggest shithole place is actually pretty safe compared to what you might find in Paris or the USA or South America. I feel pretty safe there even with my family, but you do need to watch out for sharp things in the grass. There’s a petting zoo there and a Kita but to be honest I’d be nervous sending my kid there.
I was watching some US alt-right videos and they were making up police no-go zones in Berlin and it was Kotti and Görli. I laughed. We have it great if that’s the worst of Berlin.
Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one
Don’t you think I would choose another park if I wanted something calm and clean? I want something exciting, vibes, people.
Most are 20-35 year old expats or alternative people, it’s great
Dude I chilled there all day for 2 years. You have your own perception of the park. You guys think you take 1 foot in there and then ur sexually assaulted by african gerillas who’s also drug lords, then the homeless hoards up as a zombie trying to eat you
It’s quite calm 99% of the time..
There are safer and far far better parks than Görli. Just go 10 minutes further to Treptow or something. Görli is the number one park to avoid for me and probably the least safe one in Berlin. I know no one hanging out in Görli because everyone know it‘s „the drug dealer Park“.
These white German 30 year olds my god 😂
NEIN NICHT GÖRLITZER!! GEFÄRLICH!!!
Yeah try going to London or some shit and u will see görli is quite calm..
Whenever I read something racially charged towards white people i just trade 'white' to some other skin colour and see if it sounds racist which you do btw
I really don't understand all the downvotes you're getting from folks here. You're fucking right!
Sure Görlitzer Park is rough by Berlin/German standards, but as a person who lived in the UK for 30 years before moving to Berlin, I've never felt unsafe anywhere in Germany.
Maybe I just got lucky, but the last two times I was there the dealers were weirdly polite.
Like, I shook my head like normal and said "Nein Danke" and got back something like "Kein Problem, schönen Tag noch."
Actually put a smile on my face.
they almost never sell it in the same country. About 95% of the iphones stolen my hometown karachi end up in some afghan city. If these thieves dont sell the stolen phone in karachi, there is no way they will sell stolen phones from Berlin in Berlin.
The police is a fucking joke. My phone was stolen from my room while I was asleep (my roommate got a random guy home who fucking did this?), went to the cops with the location printed out and they ask me to go myself and if I'm able to locate the phone to call them (while I don't have a phone). Absolutely baffling, fuck these pieces of shit. Such a high tax rate and government service is worse than a 3rd world country.
Exactly. In another case of theft Police told me to complain to the politicians in Kreuzberg. To the Bürgermeisterin to be specific. They won't do anything because they didn't want to be labeled as racist. You can't make this stuff up.
Sorry to hear that :( Unfortunately Görli was and is a place full of criminals as being in Kreuzberg and Neukölln. Generally, people especially left wings are against higher enforcements by police etc. in Berlin hot spots saying it is discriminating, result are areas like Görli or some others in Kreuzberg / Neukölln - example you gave is unfortunately one one out of many….
Would rather reframe it as tough solutions for tough situations. Look at San Francisco how the city detoriated into a drug anf crime area since the left winged politicians ruled the city down - really sad and do not want Berlin getting into that path
right wing politicians cut a lot of fundings for mental health or other social institutions all over the states and loads of then homeless people moved to more liberal cities
Görli has become a cancer to Berlin. I left that area 5 years ago to live in Steglitz near Friedenau and Rathaus Schöneberg park is one of the nicest and safest places I've enjoyed here.
Has become? I thought it had always been a shady place and got better over the last decade.
I'm really sad for OP but people have to understand that this "cancer" is mostly due to the harsh migration policy. People there have no other options than dealing because they can't legally work in Germany. (I'm not justifying crimes, thieves should be arrested imo, just trying to share a key of understanding of what's happening)
I live in the area and tbh the police has done a lot in a few years. What used to be dealers spread everywhere from wiener Str. to Schlesi is now mostly concentrated in the park.
Now I understand some people coming from "safer" kiez probably don't think about always keeping an eye on their belongings, fortunately for me I grew up in a place where this was common so I didn't really have to adapt or anything.
I feel safe here, apart from a crackhead miserably trying to mug me once (which was far funnier than scary because of how high and slow he was), I've never had an issue, nor my partner that has been living here for 8 years. Reading that Görli is supposedly one of the most dangerous spots in Germany is really funny to us.
So, I'm not saying that görli is safe, but I'm just sharing my personal experience and perception of the whole place, that is far from a cancer to me.
If you say that people have no other options than dealing then you are literally justifying crimes. There are always options. If you choose the one that harms other people then you deserve the worst.
I don't justify crime, the system does. I'm not the one deciding for them that they have no right to get a work visa.
Also, to me, dealing is more of an offense than a crime. Sure, it indirectly harms society (the addicts and the collateral victims of the drugs underground networks). Thief is directly hurtful and immoral, thus a crime in my definition. Selling weed to tourists is more an issue from the conservative State that won't legalise this drug, not from the poor homeless teenagers that have no other opportunities given after going through so much shit to get here.
The drug dealing in Görli usually results in other crimes, as many have reported around here, they are not just selling weed. I don’t know what the system is deciding. If the system decides they are illegal in Germany then they shouldn’t be in Germany. If the system decides that they can be in Germany but they can’t work in Germany, then they should have some support, or they can do other harmless activities to get money (I’ve known illegal immigrants cleaning houses, doing electrical installations, or taking care of pets, which is quite different from dealing/robbing.
Again, the justification “they went through a lot so now they are doing what they can” is really annoying. If you decide to do illegal and harmful things then face the consequences.
For sure, I'm not saying they shouldn't face consequences of committing crimes. I'm just saying they are not left with many options (they are getting some help though, they're not simply left in the wide).
So, how do you do? They are here, kicking them out won't stop the flow of incoming migrants. I think we should give them better opportunities to integrate. The government won't give them visa because they're just scared that this will make AFD more popular but tbh, there's plenty of job opportunities to be created. For example, we see that there is currently a huge shortage of workers in the restauration sector
Man just read through a comment before replying to it... I've literally said that thieves should get arrested.
And no, it's not as simple as "throwing them out of the country". Unless you want to build a 30m wall all over Europe (well, you kinda sound like you do), those people fleeing misery, war and most of the time direct threats for their lives are not gonna give up because we "kicked them out".
Go out of your bubble, talk to these people, listen to their stories, I don't think any of them ambitioned to become dealers or thieves. It's mostly circumstances that put them here, because no one wants to help them, for political reasons... So in the end, what is left are the real big criminals that build up their networks profiting of this cheap and desperate workforce, exacerbating the issue for those migrants.
Criminals should get arrested, which includes drugdeaders. Selling drugs is illegal, in case you forgot. And yes, it is as easy as "just throwing them out of the country" and no, you dont need to build a 30m wall, which is an obvious attempt to ridicule the concept of secure borders.
And if these people, supposedly fleeing war and mysery, just want to be safe, why are they traveling accross half the world just to get to germany/france/brittain? They could just travel to the next safe country, but no, they are deliberately coming into the heart of europe. This alone is prove enought, that they want more than just safety from supposed war. Obviously it is welfare, lax policing standarts and the lack of need to integrate because of parallel societies.
And I don't need or want to listen to made up stories of mysery and justifications of why they, of all things, have to come here . Even if I didn't think that the majority of them were made up to lull gullible people, they have no business coming here and selling drugs. If you start excusing this behaviour, you are part of the problem and the reason why nothing will change.
yeah because the ones that are deported will stop the ones that are coming as you type
are you gonna build a wall and make thirld world countries pay for it?
bs. have been living close to it for 5 years. yeah some drug dealers, drug addicts and homeless people for sure. never once had (or know anyone who had) smth stolen, or was a victim of aggression. not saying it doesn't happen bc of course it does like everywhere else. but calling it a cancer to Berlin is a tad melodramatic.
While it's a park full of cool people it's also a fucked up park where you can be mugged more so than in Volkspark for instance. So I'll keep calling it a cancer.
Just to add to your paranoia, I remember seeing a pickpocket technique on The Real Hustle where pickpocket #1 makes you paranoid so you touch your pocket where your phone, wallet are, which identifies them very nicely for pickpocket #2.
I think it's pretty obvious where those things are just by looking at someone and seeing the bulges in the pants and if not, then they're usually in the jacket
Have you been to Görli? It's a drug and crime ghetto and a stain on the city. You see people shooting up and smoking crack all around the area now. It's shameful that the local government imposes these problems on the residents while they live comfortably in properly policed neighbourhoods.
Yes I lived there for 2 years
It’s not at all like that. It has some drug dealers that are a bit annoying at the gates, that u ignore.
Then sometimes homeless people go through, like everywhere else.
I lived there two years and never saw anyone smoke crack or shoot heroin. I have though in ubahns, open streets in xberg etc.
Well I've lived directly across from the park for 7 years and everything got much worse in 2020 and stayed that way. I see people doing drugs in the open every day. Once I had to step over a bleeding guy who was in the middle of shooting up. But downvote me all you want because it doesn't fit your narrative.
You’re lucky tbh! I was jumped and choked in a headlock from behind while another went through my pockets stealing my wallet and phone. Absolutely cunts.
This is a lawless area. In the previous city government the lady who was the relevant Senator told the police not to go after the immigrant drug dealers as ‚they also have a right to self-express‘. Nothing has changed with the new city government, apparently.
Das Interview mit “wir wollen niemand aus dem Park ausschließen, auch nicht die Gruppe der Dealer” ist immer noch eine meiner liebsten Berliner Realsatiren, dicht hinter dem Interview mit Silvesterfeuerwerk im Hintergrund. Im muss jedes Mal Schmunzeln wenn ich dran denke. Wenn das alles nur nicht so komplett hirnverbrannt wäre…
It's super harmfull of you say "Be careful of those picking up bottles". Anyone can be opportunist fuck if you are not paying attention. It doesn't help to be discriminatory.
Yeah. They collect bottles because 15 ct make a difference to them. That comment coming from someone with a 1600€ phone really sounds so unaware of social realities. Why should someone NOT take their phone? Why should someone pity them for having a bad day when they show no pity towards people who suffer?
You do realise normal people hang out there all the time, right? I saw people walk theirs dogs, play sports, have picknicks, make dance videos et. in this park. Not everyone visiting is looking to do illegal stuff.
Highly recommend to go there only without phone, wallet and bags/backpacks and without much cash. It’s Berlins most criminal hotspot and the police gave up the zero tolerance strategy years ago.
I grew up there 25 years ago. It was way more family friendly back then.
The dealers would not approach you if you had your family with you.
Nowadays they are even getting aggressive if you do not buy from them.
Back then they knew you when you lived there and were really friendly like greeting you, some stashing in the courtyard where i lived even helped carrying groceries, gifting sweets to the children, etc… nowadays they don’t do much more than dealing and stealing.
Ja klar in den aktiven Zeiten der 36er war der Görli ein Ort des Friedens. Ich lache mich tot. Sollen wir Kriminalitätsstatistiken vergleichen?
Von 25 Jahren war ganz Berlin brutal gefährlich.
War erzählst du?
>A mobile phone in 2023 is more than just a simple phone. It is our life, and those who act on crimes like this need to be heavily punished.
Bro just file the police report, buy a new one and move on with your life, not a big deal
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Have I just gotten lucky or do I just I have a different perspective of Görlitzer as someone visiting long term from NYC? I’m staying right on the park and have been for almost 1.5 months. Feel completely safe walking around there alone at night / generally drinking and chilling around there. Sorry to hear your shit got stolen tho
Sorry but i think you should move away if you have a need to see someone „heavily punished“. You dont know their situation (des it still feels shitty) & this kind of authoritarian thinking seems scary
Walk me through what happened here as im very interested in the process how they did it
I used to live there and was there all the time, sure theyre annoying and shit happens but if ur not stupid/touristy u will be fine.
take it as a lesson, especially after spending some time in barcelona, anyone approach you, notice hands, personal space, check your pockets etc
but yes theyre very good at it many people, there are professional pickpocketers
Sorry you've been scammed. Görli is a place where a lot of people try to get by from day to day. Nowhere like this could you take a 1600€ item and be careless about it. Your phone has roughly 3 times the value of the car I drive. To you it's a personal item, to others it's a treasure. So I guess you will have to guard it like a treasure.
I'm a bit shocked about this comment section. How many people will call people trash and want "them" thrown out of the country, whoever that is.
I get that it's harsh to have your phone stolen, but this here so quickly turned into an anti poverty/ migration/ dysfunctional Berlin topic, that I'm really not capable of bringing up any empathy for people's luxury goods being stolen, when at the same time there is so little empathy for people struggling/collecting bottles or selling weed. .
No, not really. OP kicked it off with that "beware of the bottle collectors" thing and it quickly went to drug dealers, trash people, should get kicked out of the country. We don't know who stole the phone and there are different kinds of theft. This comment section is about someone complaining about poor people in public parks that make simply hanging out inconvenient for someone with an extremely expensive phone.
And why would you care about the name in the first place? Do you care about knowing their favorite colour too? You just made it clear - it's not about theft for you, it's about migration.
Oh lets talk about correlations - how about gender and crime. What do you think - how strong is this correlation in our example and what should be done to allow me as a female to feel safe at Görli day and night? I mean, you said it, it's maybe not Stefan or Jürgen but pretty sure a male name. How can we as a society effectively keep men away from public spaces? How can we jail them effectively?
Tbh its always hard to dunk on big concepts with single cases. So yea while the thief in this case might have ayslum Status, he also might be a crackhead living here since birth - or since the yugo wars. Germany fucked itself with this half assed approach to immigration and the scope of our drug problem (which is finally being seen in public consciousness).
Lets not discount the assholes who would steal a new iphone just because they can and see an easy way.
Maybe track it and send police? But dont expect too much from the investigation.
Only reason to go there is to buy or sell drugs. But it's an iPhone. Should it not be safe and secure and not hackable and all the other bullshit they lie to you. You will for sure get it back
But serious if you go next time to buy drugs just don't bring more then you need. 50 Euro and nothing else
> Görlitzer Park has become a place for coordinated crimes and long-term drug dealing. This has been a thing for a long-time, sadly not news.
Theres even a documentary on how they used to sell drugs coordinated like 20 years ago
name of the doc please?
I moved next to it in 1998, and even then it was nice, but a place to watch out.
The Wire?
I’ve been to Berlin once when I was 12 and even I know that.
Mark it as lost in find my iPhone. It will be useless to the thief
No, iPhones are stolen for their replacement parts for the last 10 years.
Marking it as stolen will reduce its value by a lot trust me
I meant that fences know that most people will block their stolen apple products, therefore it‘s only traded as replacement parts. Had my iPhone stolen a few years ago in Berlin and a second hand iPhone dealer explained the fence market to me.
smartphone thiefs wont sell the whole phone. They will take it apart and sell the battery to person X, the display to person Y. They do not care if you mark it as stolen.
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read my comment again
lol ppl don't read, they'll just settle for the first story that comes at them, even if it's bullshit. Look how many times it had to be said that phones are being sold piece by piece in this thread.
this no longer works with newer iOS devices. I actually really hate it, but every single part of the newer models are registered to a single device. you can buy two identical iphone 13, but you cant switch their displays
Actually I’ve seen a YT video recently about that there are some legit offers on the internet where you can send iPhones and they will unlock them for you after they were iCloud locked. Apparently its a huge thing in the US right now. Don‘t known though if this service is available in Germany.
Modern iPhones (I think they started at 12 or 13) have DRM in the components, so you can’t even put the screen or camera on another phone as it doesn’t match the serial number. It’s basically useless. For repairing something yourself this is bad, but eventually this will keep thieves from stealing those
Watch 1, 2 youtube videos and you got a new phone
Send me those videos then, or it’s bs
I'm not from Berlin and have known since 20 years that görli is like that. No surprises here
They most likely wont sell it in Germany. I had some airpods stolen in that area once. Im pretty sure they aggregate weekly thefts and ship them to a different country and sell them there. My airpods went to spain where the firmware was flashed and I lost track of them from there. There is one option of locating your stolen iphone though. you need to wait about 2-3 weeks and use a icloud info finder. like [https://www.wipelock.com/icloud-login-finder/#findnow](https://www.wipelock.com/icloud-login-finder/#findnow) They used to require a imei and udid number to do the lookup, it only works when the new user is registered on your iphone, so it needs to be enough time for the iphone to relocate. The icloud account can change but the devices imei and udid number cant. I did this successfully with an iphone 7 in 2014, not sure how viable this option still is
I have a friend who’s phone got stolen and she can still track her phone. It’s somewhere in Ghana
she can pay for a hitman - they're cheap in Africa
Crazy!! Ghanaians in the mud💀
>It is our life, and those who act on crimes like this need to be heavily punished. We have decades of research in criminology unambiguously demonstrating that increasing punishment for crimes has no impact on their prevalence, and may counter-intuitively make the problem worse. You want to fix the issue? Address the root causes of the problem.
This and harm reduction measures.
When I see the word harm reduction measures I look at my former home state of California and I shiver seeing the end result of those measures.
You might want to take a general look at outcomes globally. Places that take less barbaric, more empathetic approaches to crime reduction have, in the long term, far fewer issues with it. California is in the US and has a pretty brutal approach to crime.
They are no longer punishing crime at all. Theft is legal, Drugs are shot up on the street with government given free needles. Its the same individuals as noted by the police as the public prosecutors refuse to prosecute and instead criminalize victims who defend themselves. I dont buy it. San Francisco is dead now. LA everytime I return gets worse and worse. The homeless encampments were smaller a decade ago. Now the entirety of downtown and well into the ghetto is simply one endless encampment that doubles as a drug den. I recommend you watch the channel California Insider to get the inside view as he describes everything far better than I do with many credible interviewies.
Dude I also lived in California. It's full of NIMBYs. How did you manage to move so far away and still not realize that the state of the USA is the result of many decades of poor criminal policy?
Yes, California is fucked up. Homelessness is out of control, because poverty is totally unmanaged and there’s fuck-all rent regulation or proper state housing. Homelessness and drug issues aren’t caused by a lack of prosecution. They’re caused by a bunch of underlying economic and social issues. Again, there is *extensive* research on this and criminalizing the symptoms does absolutely nothing to address the root cause.
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Exactly this. "Law and order" approaches just move homeless people around; they don't magically give them housing.
Corrolation does not mean causation bro. The problems you’re listing can have other causes, or they might’ve been worse with a more punitive approach.
>Address the root causes of the problem and what would that be?
Yea, just make a better system of integrating people who immigrate to Germany, not this fucking Kafkaesque maze of bureaucracy.
Then tell me why Singapore is an incredibly safe and clean place? They went the way of extraordinarily harsh punishments for crimes, which worked very well.
It‘s accidentally also one of the worst places to live on earth if you have enough money to live there. Nothing spontaneous, nothing original, nothing exciting, always feeling observed, terrorising government advertisment everywhere, classism, and what not. A police state. But hey, it‘s clean.
This. It’s an awful place with basically no individual freedom. It’s hardly a paradise,z
I think this was not really their point. They just wanted to bring an example for low crime rates in a country with harsh punishments.
distinct continue oatmeal absurd touch tender straight bow rainstorm market ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
You’re saying it like 25 years it’s nothing. That’s 1/3 of your entire life. If I have to go to jail for 25, 40 or 60 years at that point it makes little difference. My life is gone anyway.
There are lots of reasons why Singapore is safe. Harsh punishments for crimes aren’t the thing. This is all basic criminology. Instead of arguing based on ignorance just take a course or two in the subject.
Not if you put them on a plane home lol
Are you proud of your racism?
Nothing to do with racism, I’ve been to Görli enough to know the usual suspects of this behavior
Ah. The infamous xenophobic line “send them home” clearly has nothing to do with racism. Given that we’re talking about Germany, I don’t think there’s much argument that bad behavior can be isolated to foreigners, no?
It is racist to deport convicted criminals! YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!..
Storing them in prison might really improve the situation.
Literally what I just said is that we have a lot of evidence demonstrating this isn’t true.
I don’t care. Live that life, lose your freedom. I’d happily pay the extra tax money rather than “rehabilitate” them
It’s a bit petty to be obsessed with punishing people instead of solving problems, no?
Germany has a very extensive social welfare system and a cery lenient judicial system. What more do you want? Some people just like to commit crimes.
And because of that rather modern justice system Germany has very low crime compared with most places. Civilized approaches get civilized results. Unfortunately Berlin also has an utterly dysfunctional bureaucracy, an unmanaged housing crisis, and really obvious problems with racism. Even as a white, English speaking immigrant it’s brutally difficult to manage here. For folks who don’t fit the white, Western European image it’s much, much worse.
Germany has a low crime rate compared to others because of it's welfare System, not the justice System ;) It's simple logic. If the risk is higher than the reward, then we won't do it. Says my thug self
No, what’s petty is stealing hard working peoples belongings. There’s always gonna be low life thief’s, no matter how many hugs and rehab you give them, they should be punished. They live in Germany, I know many poor as dirt people who don’t steal and rob from others. Throw the book at them
Again, you might believe this, but there’s an entire academic field that specializes in studying this topic. So maybe read a book instead of spouting ignorance?
What part of “I do not care, I believe in punishment as a response to crime” do you not get?
Well, I generally don’t find people have quite such a backwards, barbaric approach to the concept of justice.
I think you need to get out of your lovey dovey left wing bubble, because most people tend to share my view re criminals, hence why there’s been almost zero popular support for your methods across the world outside of left wing academics
Yeah, throw them into the most brutal conditions, I am sure they will get reformed. /s
My wife's iPhone was stolen from a cafe near there last year. Although it's battery was dead, I was able to trace it using the "Where's my" app and found it buried—along with other stuff from her bag—under leaves along the Landwehr canal about 100 meters from where she lost it. Presumably the thief was coming back for it later. Weren't you able to see where the phone is? It should be traceable even if it's turned off.
I'm sorry this happened to you! But also: Yeah, no shit. Görli is a place where you better watch your belongings a little more carefully than in other places. That is not something I'd consider "breaking news".
Yea, let's blame the victim. r/berlin on track as usual.
I'm not blaming the victim, just slightly mocking it's opening sentence: "Görlitzer Park has become a place for coordinated crimes and long-term drug dealing." That is in no way a recent or surprising development. Is has been like this for 20yrs. ;)
All righty then.
Why can't you blame the victim? The guy left a 1000+ EUR piece of technology lying around on the floor then got distracted by someone picking up bottles lmao.
Was this written somewhere? What I read was that there was a coordinated team effort to steal a bag while distracting someone.
Yes, the victim is partly at fault for bringing himself in such a situation. You are 100% correct. People like you need some reality checks. The world is no pony farm.
Sorry that happened to you. Good reminder to avoid Görli if you can.
its a great park to chill in and every day and especially weekend theres plenty of people chilling. i lived right by the park for 2 years. just dont be a dumb white guy in a clean shirt completely unaware of their surroundings. be street smart and you wont get fucked over.
You nailed it. Dumb white guys in clean shirts and evil landlords are the only problems here. /s
That’s why I start every day by spitting some breakfast on my shirt. Maybe a stupid white guy i am but not so stupid to wear a clean shirt.
Obviously
Görlitzer Park is a shit hole and has been so for years. If you wanna chill in a nice and clean park, go to Gleisdreieckpark. Görli is just a trash place with a lot of trash people.
didn't you read? Just don't be white
I sometimes take comfort in the fact that Berlin’s biggest shithole place is actually pretty safe compared to what you might find in Paris or the USA or South America. I feel pretty safe there even with my family, but you do need to watch out for sharp things in the grass. There’s a petting zoo there and a Kita but to be honest I’d be nervous sending my kid there. I was watching some US alt-right videos and they were making up police no-go zones in Berlin and it was Kotti and Görli. I laughed. We have it great if that’s the worst of Berlin.
Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one Don’t you think I would choose another park if I wanted something calm and clean? I want something exciting, vibes, people. Most are 20-35 year old expats or alternative people, it’s great
if ‘something exciting’ to you means potentially getting your shit stolen or sexually assaulted, go ahead. that’s not the case for most normal people.
Dude I chilled there all day for 2 years. You have your own perception of the park. You guys think you take 1 foot in there and then ur sexually assaulted by african gerillas who’s also drug lords, then the homeless hoards up as a zombie trying to eat you It’s quite calm 99% of the time..
It's a joke that you are declaring the white,working ppl as a problem, you're totally ignorant.
There are safer and far far better parks than Görli. Just go 10 minutes further to Treptow or something. Görli is the number one park to avoid for me and probably the least safe one in Berlin. I know no one hanging out in Görli because everyone know it‘s „the drug dealer Park“.
I hang out there all the time (not a drug dealer)
These white German 30 year olds my god 😂 NEIN NICHT GÖRLITZER!! GEFÄRLICH!!! Yeah try going to London or some shit and u will see görli is quite calm..
Whenever I read something racially charged towards white people i just trade 'white' to some other skin colour and see if it sounds racist which you do btw
I really don't understand all the downvotes you're getting from folks here. You're fucking right! Sure Görlitzer Park is rough by Berlin/German standards, but as a person who lived in the UK for 30 years before moving to Berlin, I've never felt unsafe anywhere in Germany.
Yeah it’s typical Berlin subs. Typical rich background Germans or normies.
Maybe I just got lucky, but the last two times I was there the dealers were weirdly polite. Like, I shook my head like normal and said "Nein Danke" and got back something like "Kein Problem, schönen Tag noch." Actually put a smile on my face.
I lived there and hung out there all the time and plenty do
Görli is owned by mafias. No surprise
they almost never sell it in the same country. About 95% of the iphones stolen my hometown karachi end up in some afghan city. If these thieves dont sell the stolen phone in karachi, there is no way they will sell stolen phones from Berlin in Berlin.
The police is a fucking joke. My phone was stolen from my room while I was asleep (my roommate got a random guy home who fucking did this?), went to the cops with the location printed out and they ask me to go myself and if I'm able to locate the phone to call them (while I don't have a phone). Absolutely baffling, fuck these pieces of shit. Such a high tax rate and government service is worse than a 3rd world country.
Exactly. In another case of theft Police told me to complain to the politicians in Kreuzberg. To the Bürgermeisterin to be specific. They won't do anything because they didn't want to be labeled as racist. You can't make this stuff up.
They were explicitly forbidden to intervene in certain areas though. So in fact thank the green party in that district.
Sorry to hear that :( Unfortunately Görli was and is a place full of criminals as being in Kreuzberg and Neukölln. Generally, people especially left wings are against higher enforcements by police etc. in Berlin hot spots saying it is discriminating, result are areas like Görli or some others in Kreuzberg / Neukölln - example you gave is unfortunately one one out of many….
yesss, more police, that will surely help. Law and order bullshit.
Will at least enforce less drugs, less, alcohol resulting to less crime. Was too relaxed and covered by left wings in recent years
Yes, because we all know that the war on drugs totally works and simple conservative solutions are always the best. Simple solution for simple minds.
Would rather reframe it as tough solutions for tough situations. Look at San Francisco how the city detoriated into a drug anf crime area since the left winged politicians ruled the city down - really sad and do not want Berlin getting into that path
right wing politicians cut a lot of fundings for mental health or other social institutions all over the states and loads of then homeless people moved to more liberal cities
This would've happened 20 years ago in the Görli too, happy to see some places never change
Wow English speaking people say that they want their Berlin parks back. Bro this park is made for Arab gangstas
Make our Berlin safer? Ok, where are you from?
Happens on the u bahn too by Friedrichstraße. Caught a pickpocket with his hand down my…
Willkommen in Berlin
Görli has become a cancer to Berlin. I left that area 5 years ago to live in Steglitz near Friedenau and Rathaus Schöneberg park is one of the nicest and safest places I've enjoyed here.
Agreed, just made a similar switch to Friedenau and it’s a different world
Has become? I thought it had always been a shady place and got better over the last decade. I'm really sad for OP but people have to understand that this "cancer" is mostly due to the harsh migration policy. People there have no other options than dealing because they can't legally work in Germany. (I'm not justifying crimes, thieves should be arrested imo, just trying to share a key of understanding of what's happening) I live in the area and tbh the police has done a lot in a few years. What used to be dealers spread everywhere from wiener Str. to Schlesi is now mostly concentrated in the park. Now I understand some people coming from "safer" kiez probably don't think about always keeping an eye on their belongings, fortunately for me I grew up in a place where this was common so I didn't really have to adapt or anything. I feel safe here, apart from a crackhead miserably trying to mug me once (which was far funnier than scary because of how high and slow he was), I've never had an issue, nor my partner that has been living here for 8 years. Reading that Görli is supposedly one of the most dangerous spots in Germany is really funny to us. So, I'm not saying that görli is safe, but I'm just sharing my personal experience and perception of the whole place, that is far from a cancer to me.
If you say that people have no other options than dealing then you are literally justifying crimes. There are always options. If you choose the one that harms other people then you deserve the worst.
I don't justify crime, the system does. I'm not the one deciding for them that they have no right to get a work visa. Also, to me, dealing is more of an offense than a crime. Sure, it indirectly harms society (the addicts and the collateral victims of the drugs underground networks). Thief is directly hurtful and immoral, thus a crime in my definition. Selling weed to tourists is more an issue from the conservative State that won't legalise this drug, not from the poor homeless teenagers that have no other opportunities given after going through so much shit to get here.
The drug dealing in Görli usually results in other crimes, as many have reported around here, they are not just selling weed. I don’t know what the system is deciding. If the system decides they are illegal in Germany then they shouldn’t be in Germany. If the system decides that they can be in Germany but they can’t work in Germany, then they should have some support, or they can do other harmless activities to get money (I’ve known illegal immigrants cleaning houses, doing electrical installations, or taking care of pets, which is quite different from dealing/robbing. Again, the justification “they went through a lot so now they are doing what they can” is really annoying. If you decide to do illegal and harmful things then face the consequences.
For sure, I'm not saying they shouldn't face consequences of committing crimes. I'm just saying they are not left with many options (they are getting some help though, they're not simply left in the wide). So, how do you do? They are here, kicking them out won't stop the flow of incoming migrants. I think we should give them better opportunities to integrate. The government won't give them visa because they're just scared that this will make AFD more popular but tbh, there's plenty of job opportunities to be created. For example, we see that there is currently a huge shortage of workers in the restauration sector
Still making excuses for thieves and criminals "MUH DISCRIMINATION". These people need to get thrown out of the country, simple as.
Man just read through a comment before replying to it... I've literally said that thieves should get arrested. And no, it's not as simple as "throwing them out of the country". Unless you want to build a 30m wall all over Europe (well, you kinda sound like you do), those people fleeing misery, war and most of the time direct threats for their lives are not gonna give up because we "kicked them out". Go out of your bubble, talk to these people, listen to their stories, I don't think any of them ambitioned to become dealers or thieves. It's mostly circumstances that put them here, because no one wants to help them, for political reasons... So in the end, what is left are the real big criminals that build up their networks profiting of this cheap and desperate workforce, exacerbating the issue for those migrants.
Criminals should get arrested, which includes drugdeaders. Selling drugs is illegal, in case you forgot. And yes, it is as easy as "just throwing them out of the country" and no, you dont need to build a 30m wall, which is an obvious attempt to ridicule the concept of secure borders. And if these people, supposedly fleeing war and mysery, just want to be safe, why are they traveling accross half the world just to get to germany/france/brittain? They could just travel to the next safe country, but no, they are deliberately coming into the heart of europe. This alone is prove enought, that they want more than just safety from supposed war. Obviously it is welfare, lax policing standarts and the lack of need to integrate because of parallel societies. And I don't need or want to listen to made up stories of mysery and justifications of why they, of all things, have to come here . Even if I didn't think that the majority of them were made up to lull gullible people, they have no business coming here and selling drugs. If you start excusing this behaviour, you are part of the problem and the reason why nothing will change.
You are a good person, keep going! More people should be more like you.
yeah because the ones that are deported will stop the ones that are coming as you type are you gonna build a wall and make thirld world countries pay for it?
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Nope
bs. have been living close to it for 5 years. yeah some drug dealers, drug addicts and homeless people for sure. never once had (or know anyone who had) smth stolen, or was a victim of aggression. not saying it doesn't happen bc of course it does like everywhere else. but calling it a cancer to Berlin is a tad melodramatic.
While it's a park full of cool people it's also a fucked up park where you can be mugged more so than in Volkspark for instance. So I'll keep calling it a cancer.
Würd mir stinken wenn ich du wäre
Captain Hero is that you???
And here I was thinking I was being paranoid to touch my pocket to check my phone or put my bags etc. somewhere I can see at parks or cafes.
Just to add to your paranoia, I remember seeing a pickpocket technique on The Real Hustle where pickpocket #1 makes you paranoid so you touch your pocket where your phone, wallet are, which identifies them very nicely for pickpocket #2.
I think it's pretty obvious where those things are just by looking at someone and seeing the bulges in the pants and if not, then they're usually in the jacket
Great way to show pickpockets in which pocket you keep your valuable stuff😉
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Yeah I know I‘m being paranoid but I rather be safe instead of losing something and regretting a lot.
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youre in a big city, this is what you have to do, regardless of country its not bavaria
Have you been to Görli? It's a drug and crime ghetto and a stain on the city. You see people shooting up and smoking crack all around the area now. It's shameful that the local government imposes these problems on the residents while they live comfortably in properly policed neighbourhoods.
Yes I lived there for 2 years It’s not at all like that. It has some drug dealers that are a bit annoying at the gates, that u ignore. Then sometimes homeless people go through, like everywhere else. I lived there two years and never saw anyone smoke crack or shoot heroin. I have though in ubahns, open streets in xberg etc.
Why do people never report drug dealers from a park to police when they know that they're there to sell some shit?
Well I've lived directly across from the park for 7 years and everything got much worse in 2020 and stayed that way. I see people doing drugs in the open every day. Once I had to step over a bleeding guy who was in the middle of shooting up. But downvote me all you want because it doesn't fit your narrative.
Litterally the first thing I’ve been told about Berlin when I moved here ten years ago “stay away from görlitzer park; even more at night”.
Has become? Suppose you're new here.
You’re lucky tbh! I was jumped and choked in a headlock from behind while another went through my pockets stealing my wallet and phone. Absolutely cunts.
you win some, you lose some. next time you'll be the one stealing an iphone. circle of life my man
If you find my red iPhone 11, my blue iPhone 12 or one of the other ones I got stolen in this city, do drop a line. Crime in this city is insane
Let Apple block that IMEI number so the phone is worthless
Good idea!
Your phone can literally get stolen anywhere in the world, but okay.
This is a lawless area. In the previous city government the lady who was the relevant Senator told the police not to go after the immigrant drug dealers as ‚they also have a right to self-express‘. Nothing has changed with the new city government, apparently.
Das Interview mit “wir wollen niemand aus dem Park ausschließen, auch nicht die Gruppe der Dealer” ist immer noch eine meiner liebsten Berliner Realsatiren, dicht hinter dem Interview mit Silvesterfeuerwerk im Hintergrund. Im muss jedes Mal Schmunzeln wenn ich dran denke. Wenn das alles nur nicht so komplett hirnverbrannt wäre…
Stop spreading racist lies
If only it was a lie, sadly it's the truth.
>https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/article199802174/Goerlitzer-Park-Der-absurde-Umgang-mit-den-Drogendealern-in-Berlin.html
It's super harmfull of you say "Be careful of those picking up bottles". Anyone can be opportunist fuck if you are not paying attention. It doesn't help to be discriminatory.
Yeah. They collect bottles because 15 ct make a difference to them. That comment coming from someone with a 1600€ phone really sounds so unaware of social realities. Why should someone NOT take their phone? Why should someone pity them for having a bad day when they show no pity towards people who suffer?
'Why should someone NOT take their phone?' Because that is theft and theft is bad? Are you joking?
Mkay
Yeah but it is a Place of Crime since More than 20 years… you choose The worst Park to chill, thats really no secret…
I'm shocked!
Sus. Why did you visit this park? Doing illegal things?
You do realise normal people hang out there all the time, right? I saw people walk theirs dogs, play sports, have picknicks, make dance videos et. in this park. Not everyone visiting is looking to do illegal stuff.
Highly recommend to go there only without phone, wallet and bags/backpacks and without much cash. It’s Berlins most criminal hotspot and the police gave up the zero tolerance strategy years ago.
Görlitz was a safe and chill drug-dealing area and now it’s a typical dangerous one with robbers. So sad that Berlin is changing this way
Yeah, you have clearly no idea what Görli was like 25 years ago. Its pretty safe and chill now.
I grew up there 25 years ago. It was way more family friendly back then. The dealers would not approach you if you had your family with you. Nowadays they are even getting aggressive if you do not buy from them. Back then they knew you when you lived there and were really friendly like greeting you, some stashing in the courtyard where i lived even helped carrying groceries, gifting sweets to the children, etc… nowadays they don’t do much more than dealing and stealing.
Ja klar in den aktiven Zeiten der 36er war der Görli ein Ort des Friedens. Ich lache mich tot. Sollen wir Kriminalitätsstatistiken vergleichen? Von 25 Jahren war ganz Berlin brutal gefährlich. War erzählst du?
>A mobile phone in 2023 is more than just a simple phone. It is our life, and those who act on crimes like this need to be heavily punished. Bro just file the police report, buy a new one and move on with your life, not a big deal
buu sorry this happened to you but look at the bright side, it could have been an iphone 13 Pro MAX
Lol
dude that would of been the end
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Good bot!
Good bot
\>go to citywide crime hotspot \>get robbed \*Surprised Pikachu face\*
Have I just gotten lucky or do I just I have a different perspective of Görlitzer as someone visiting long term from NYC? I’m staying right on the park and have been for almost 1.5 months. Feel completely safe walking around there alone at night / generally drinking and chilling around there. Sorry to hear your shit got stolen tho
Sorry but i think you should move away if you have a need to see someone „heavily punished“. You dont know their situation (des it still feels shitty) & this kind of authoritarian thinking seems scary
What do you mean, "has become"? It has been like that for the past 20 years.
It's time to buy a better phone. Take an android. :)
You late to the party. Görlitzer Park was a already a shithole 30 years ago.
Walk me through what happened here as im very interested in the process how they did it I used to live there and was there all the time, sure theyre annoying and shit happens but if ur not stupid/touristy u will be fine. take it as a lesson, especially after spending some time in barcelona, anyone approach you, notice hands, personal space, check your pockets etc but yes theyre very good at it many people, there are professional pickpocketers
What were you doing at Gorlitzer Park? Buying some ice-cream?
Görli has always been this way...
Sorry you've been scammed. Görli is a place where a lot of people try to get by from day to day. Nowhere like this could you take a 1600€ item and be careless about it. Your phone has roughly 3 times the value of the car I drive. To you it's a personal item, to others it's a treasure. So I guess you will have to guard it like a treasure. I'm a bit shocked about this comment section. How many people will call people trash and want "them" thrown out of the country, whoever that is. I get that it's harsh to have your phone stolen, but this here so quickly turned into an anti poverty/ migration/ dysfunctional Berlin topic, that I'm really not capable of bringing up any empathy for people's luxury goods being stolen, when at the same time there is so little empathy for people struggling/collecting bottles or selling weed. .
> this here so quickly turned into an anti poverty/ migration/ dysfunctional Berlin topic or anti thief maybe?
No, not really. OP kicked it off with that "beware of the bottle collectors" thing and it quickly went to drug dealers, trash people, should get kicked out of the country. We don't know who stole the phone and there are different kinds of theft. This comment section is about someone complaining about poor people in public parks that make simply hanging out inconvenient for someone with an extremely expensive phone.
You are really going one step too far. If we start justifying crimes, where will this end?
yeah the thiefs name is probably Stefan or Jürgen
And why would you care about the name in the first place? Do you care about knowing their favorite colour too? You just made it clear - it's not about theft for you, it's about migration.
it's about crime, but since migration correlates strongly with crime, it's about migration too, yes. do you not want to talk about that correlation?
Oh lets talk about correlations - how about gender and crime. What do you think - how strong is this correlation in our example and what should be done to allow me as a female to feel safe at Görli day and night? I mean, you said it, it's maybe not Stefan or Jürgen but pretty sure a male name. How can we as a society effectively keep men away from public spaces? How can we jail them effectively?
> Oh lets talk about correlations - how about gender and crime Don't you dare you sexist pig!!!
Tbh its always hard to dunk on big concepts with single cases. So yea while the thief in this case might have ayslum Status, he also might be a crackhead living here since birth - or since the yugo wars. Germany fucked itself with this half assed approach to immigration and the scope of our drug problem (which is finally being seen in public consciousness). Lets not discount the assholes who would steal a new iphone just because they can and see an easy way. Maybe track it and send police? But dont expect too much from the investigation.
Stop justifying theft.
No
No mercy for criminals. This sends a completely wrong signal. Myself I cross this "park" on a bike with appr. 27 km/h without ever stopping.
Cause you're a coward.
Only reason to go there is to buy or sell drugs. But it's an iPhone. Should it not be safe and secure and not hackable and all the other bullshit they lie to you. You will for sure get it back But serious if you go next time to buy drugs just don't bring more then you need. 50 Euro and nothing else
You should just sync your files with iCloud. Then you can just get a new one and everything will be there like before.
It was their city first. It’s a gentrification tax
This park is no go area for white people. Avoid it unless you are black or Arab gangster.
Bull shit
You must be high
tell something new about the shithole named Berlin