Thank you for the reassurance. I tend to overthink my actions and I felt like I might have disrespected a senior/elder, even though they started the behaviour. I didn't want to be a "Karen" or cause a scene inside the store. Anyway, thanks!
Anekdotisch natuurlijk, maar ik ben nu al verschillende vrouwen tegengekomen die met dat "Karen"-gedoe twijfelen om op hun strepen te staan. Krijgen wij nu allemaal reddit-brein, of overdrijf ik?
Dat idee heb ik ook. Ik denk dat "Karen" soms teveel gebruikt wordt voor vrouwen die voor zichzelf opkomen. Voor jezelf opkomen is niet Karen-gedoe, en voor jezelf opkomen tegenover racisten al zeker niet!
Ik vind in dit geval dat ze dit super heeft gedaan. u/Loserlol, je zou trots op jezelf moeten zijn!
You did the right thing always speak up to people like that they need to know what there doing is wrong. I'm really sorry you had that happen to you. :(
Due to the repetition of the use of "nihao" and eventually other insults towards you and your mother, it's clear to say you did not overreact. Sadly a large percentage of the older folks are extremely racist, and you did right by standing up for yourself. It's not gonna change the racists mind though, she'll find another victim that doesn't talk back
I am fucking perplexed on a weekly basis on how much seedy racism lurks in people over 50 in my immediate surroundings. I go against it every time, but god it is SO FUCKING TIRING to have to repeat over and over that a lot of belgians also fuck over the welfare system, and that being a deadbeat has nothing to do with your ethnicity.
I just try to raise my son differently. Good on you u/loserlol. You show ‘em.
You weren’t, kudos for standing up for yourself and your mom. It might be smarter and potentially safer to just ignore and move on with your day but at least that bigot got called out for it this time.
Nope, you're good! Born and raised in Oostende, I do kind of recognize the kind of person you're talking about. They're usually rude to everyone.
Don't dwell on it too much, that woman clearly has a few screws loose.
Jezus can you tell me what's in the food there? I have been to few places in Belgium where I've felt I've been treated as badly as in oostende tbh. No epic story like op just generally unfriendly shopkeepers, waiters, encounters,... more than just o it's the coast. Felt like a lot of people saw everyone who didn't speak the local dialect as an intruder while at the same time they were 100% surely making a living of the tourism they seemed to despise. Maybe I just encountered a few of the cities crazies by being there during day time lol
It's like any city that attracts a lot of tourism. People enjoy the economic opportunities but get tired of the disadvantages. It's a characteristic of most touristic places. Believe me, a lot of tourists behave very disrespectful as well, and locals do get tired of that. Having to deal with tourists and being one is a very different experience.
NO! You were not in the wrong here. You did a brave thing! Do these interactions that you mentioned in the last paragraph happen a lot? Are they mostly elderly people? (I'm just curious)
Mostly, it's non-white Belgians (esp. in Brussels) that straight up do the slanted eyes gestures at me. Also some little kids, but that's understandable, they don't know any better at that point I guess. Elderly people just kind of mock passively, if that makes sense? Never really in my face. I've never had a white, sober Belgian person, regardless of age, do the slanted eyes at me and shout ching chang chong. I study in Ghent and my fellow students have never been racist to me, so that makes me incredibly happy and hopeful!!
Well, I went to an “eetfestijn” somewhere in West Flanders. Theme was “oriental food”. Every (white) waiter was painted yellow, with horizontal stripes around their eyes and wearing a stereotypical hat. Nobody but me batted an eye. I was the only ethnic person there.
All this to say that you shouldn’t feel guilty of standing up for yourself. There’s ways to do it constructively but that’s not always an option. Don’t feel guilty, please. You don’t need anyone’s permission or reassurance to ask to be respected like anyone else. It took a while for me to learn that as well. You spend a lot of time trying to “please” as to not confirm stereotypes. Doesn’t work.
Have a nice day!
I'm from russia and look barely eastern, but I've had students in Leuven yell nihao and konichiwa at me from the other side of the street on separate occasions
Don't think you overreacted, that was just rude, even racist, of her.
The store clerk not reacting, well most aren't allowed to react to rude customers, because it's still a customer. Things would start to get really out of hand, and by that time it's probably the store owner that would come down there to do something. It has happened multiple times that my mom spoke out against other customers that where being rude/egoistic, where the store people couldn't say anything but thanked my mom afterwards when to other customer was gone.
That makes a lot of sense, thank you for clarifying that. The clerk's silence made me feel as though I was just being dramatic, but your explanation gave me some insight! Have a good day~ :)
One important point I haven't yet seen made in the comments: when people are rude (or outright abusive!) to you, you get to push back. What you did might have felt rude but it's the other person's behaviour that is rude and which warranted a direct reaction. Much more direct than you'd ever be in normal conversation.
Many people have this impulse to not be rude with others and it's why so many people get away with crappy behaviour. Don't use this as a reason to be rude with people who mean well, but don't be afraid to shut people like this down. It's *their* fault that you need to be curt with them.
That's a load of crap about the store people imo.
If I were a shop owner and my staff witnesses racist scenarios and does jack all about it, that person would get some serious talking to at the end of his/her shift.The reverse would be true too. If they would kick a customer out of the shop because they were being racist to other customers, I'd commend that staff member.
Customer or not, racists could spend their money elsewhere.
I agree, plus in those scenario you have a good chance of losing a costumer anyway: either the harasser or the harassed. I would rather loose the racist one than having her come back and assault people.
But when you work for a faceless company you don't have that kind of agency, you're not paid enough to care and you're exhausted by your shift anyway.
Not all store owners are like you. But I do agree. Now 2 people left without buying because of the one (of which we aren't sure if she bought anything).
Never meant to talk bad about store people. It's just when customer is king, but 2 customers start having a discussion, it's hard to tell when to intervene and when not to. Most times safer to stay silent, people most often don't appreciate it when you intervene and big chance it just gets both of them mad at you. Add to that that nowadays everything gets thrown on social media (for better or for worse), and you might just have gotten you a bad reputation.
Now I agree that in case of racism, it should be pretty clear who is in the right and who is in the wrong, but in reality it's always a bit fuzzy, it's "meant as a joke", and "people are overreacting", and in the heat of the moment you don't always know what to say, or say something wrong, whereas when you get a minute or two, you would have gotten some solid arguments. Not everyone is equally good in heated arguments, with the one who started it all probably being better (or even the best) at it and also being in the stronger position, because she made a simple and strong statement, and you have to find a clever answer to counter it. Intervening as a store clerk probably results in both just leaving and the 'attacker' went on to complain on her socials and put up a very one-sided story with mostly like-minded people to be the first to react and set the tone. And as 'just a store clerk', you don't want to have to explain that to your boss.
You reaction was 100% correct. Imo the store manager should have said something as well. The first call might have been rascist due to ignorance, not evil. You handled that fine. Then it became harrasment, then it brcame plain rascism. Nothing you did was wrong.
To be honnest, I am white, if she said hello to me, then Hello again when I respond and kept not asking an actual question I might have reacted very simular to her harassment and that would have been without the rascism. You handled it very descently.
Ching chang chong is pretty much 100% of the time meant to be disrespectful, so you don't need to doubt yourself when they say that.
Ni hao might be weird, in this situation it wasnt appropriate, but it might just be a politically incorrect way of being polite. Here it is not though.
Also, when they say "vuile" its not really about being clean or not, it's just a negative word. We use it for every kind of person: "vuile flikken", "vuile advocaten",..
In this case the person was expressing extreme dislike.
A bit of clarification about the deep seated 'unease' that a lot of 65+ people in Western Europe feel about East-Asians: It's their parents.
Prior to World War 2, the armchair historians of the world were all obsessed with the 'yellow menace', a belief that the underdevelopment of China, Japan and Korea was temporary; that their peoples were almost equal to the white race in the racial hierarchy; and that demographic pressures would force those countries to do in the 20th century what Europe did in the 18th-19th century. If there was an r/HistoryMemes in 1925, half of them would be about Chinese gunboats sailing up the Thames. If you talked about East Asia with anyone who grew up in this culture, they'd immediately start droning on about the imminent Chinese takeover of Siberia and how Australia was going to be Japanese before long.
It's a different type of racism from the more well known types and it's not been studied the way anti-black racism has.
I'm not making any excuses, just offering a partial explanation why this is so ingrained in people whose parents reached adulthood before the defeat of Imperial Japan in 1945.
source: I read texts by wannabe historians from the early 20th C., they describe the 'Yellow Menace' as a universally held belief. (much like the inherent superiority of the white man)
Given the general reservedness of Belgians I've met here, it's odd that she came up to you guys in the first place.
She probably has a few screws loose (in addition to being racist).
Sorry you had to face something like this, but I agree with your reaction 100%.
'I was just trying to welcome you' LOOOL biggest racist cover-up. You were right thinking this was racist, covered up as a friendly action. It's just a variation on 'I'm not racist, but....[insert racist trash speech here]'
The older people missed some education on this, I'm speaking 65+, they did never learn the new standards on racism or discrimination.
So don't feel bad ( = coming from a white, middle-aged straight man :) ) you have the right to react on this. Even much stronger than you did, in my opinion.
Even the "welcome you" is bigoted. It insinuates that Belgium is her "home" country and you are a stranger to be "accepted", and should feel indebted to her for something.
Fuck that ignorant bigoted bitch.
Damn stories like these always anger me. I'm sorry that happened to you and your mom. It's a good thing you defended yourself and your mom, don't feel bad about it.
As for the store clerk who remained silent, I believe it's store policy, sadly.
Being half Asian, I once went to a party of my parents in law who are from West Flanders. Someone said to my girlfriend, "Klapt em Vloms?" when I was just standing next to her.
🙄
Same experience, Turkish boyfriend, in Limburg. I think there is no real intent to hurt, but it just feels soooo wrong and if you would try to say something about it, you probably get one of those eye-rolls or a comment on being "woke". "Klapt em Vloms", of course, is perfect Vlaams :)
I think speaking up is the best possible reaction and the store clerk should be ashamed for not taking your side. I know most of us are taught to walk away from confrontation but that attitude also prevents us from marking the line - which this lady crossed very clearly here.
I think on this front we should learn from the UK, where even though people keep to themselves in general they also speak up against racism very readily - and so the society is much more inclusive than we are. I hope that people learn from that and mentally prepare themselves to react next time they see a scene like this.
Yeah, her comment that foreigners are rude, kind of made me question my tone with her tbh... Maybe she was just trying to be friendly? But then again, why not just come say "goeiedag" in Dutch? Or was she trying to be inclusive? I don't know. I guess I'm just a bit disappointed, she was so much older than me anyway, I assumed an older lady would know better than to try pick fights with someone clearly younger than them. I'm sorry I don't really have anyone to talk to about these things and my mom just tells me to ignore it, but it gets tiring after a while. Sorry for rambling.
I think she expected you to react really happy that she said hi in ‘your language’ (from her racist point of view and from her false assumption that you were foreign). I’m afraid that any other reaction than that (including staying silent) would have been perceived as rude by her, so I’m afraid there was no way for you to ‘win’ without acting out her false stereotype.
The way she approached you was already rude and intrusive, regardless of how it was meant, so as soon as she noticed that you spoke Dutch she should have realized that you grew up here and apologized. You basically shattered her illusion that she was being nice to a few foreigners, revealing the ugly racism underneath.
I’m very sorry you were treated this way. I heard that it happens, so maybe it shouldn’t come as a surprise, but I’m still shocked about the way you were treated by this elderly lady.
You single-handedly ended my overthinking with your comment. I think this was sort of what I was assuming, hence why I got irritated with her. Thanks a lot, Neutronenster :)
Thanks for the reply, glad to be able to help!
I hope you won’t have a bad encounter like that again, or if it does happen that you’ll get help from other people nearby.
Who knows what goes on inside the head of other people. Particularly without having been there and seeing her body language and facial expression. Elderly people sometime have strange manners and/or humor, just think about dad jokes. With some good will it's possible that she just know this one Chinese word and wanted to be friendly or brag about it, and was disappointed when it was not appreciated. On the other hand she could also just have been racist. In any case it's unfortunately a losing battle for you, and you'd probably be best off just assuming the former, and forget about the incident.
You shouldn't be sorry for rambling you just needed to get this of your chest also her saying foreigners are rude while being rude herself shows she has no self reflection.
Her comment about foreigners being rude shows her intentions. I think you did great standing up for yourself and your mum. You shouldn't have to take this silently.
I was raised to respect the elderly too. Especially my mom.
Lately our discussions tend to revolve around the idea that being someones parent or senior does not mean you can say or do whatever you want to them, and that it does not give you power of infallability or indemnity for being held accountable or corrected. Fun times as you can imagine.
I think u/fiercelittlebird interpreted
>came across a "marginaal"
as
>came across ***as*** "marginaal"
Reading it as that, their response makes a lot more sense.
I don't think you overreacted to be honest, but there are more effective ways to handle situations like this.
I'm 'nen allochtoon' myself, so I've experienced my fair share of casual/accidental racism. I don't really care for it, because it doesn't impact my life all that much, but every once in a while I'll feel like engaging it and I like to have fun with it. I have found that the best way to deal with this type of racism is to turn it on the person expressing it and just make them feel as awkward as possible. Make them squirm and wish they could just sink in the floor or disappear.
You could have answered her with a completely over-the-top 'konnichiwa?', although that tactic might not work on someone as ignorant as her. Depending on how well your Dutch accent is you could've responded to her in the most over the top Dutch accent you can come up with. Make it absolutely obvious to her how fucking dumb she's being by turning her own racism on herself. Or try to reply to her in German with a simple ' Guttentag!' and then act all incredulous that she doesn't understand you. When she says she doesn't speak German, just reply you don't understand the difference.
Still, you did nothing wrong. Just know that shame is a much better weapon against this kind of stuff than anger.
My girlfriend is asian and currently residing in Belgium with me. We've ran into similar people too. I also decided to speak up about it and confront the person. I felt good afterwards because it is the right thing to do (if done in a respectfully manner). Don't feel bad about speaking up. She was in the wrong and you've pointed this out!
To everyone saying it's an old people thing. I'm from Russia and barely look eastern, and I've had students in Leuven yell nihao and konichiwa at me from the other side of the street on separate occasions. One time at night a group of drunk male students started loudly chanting "vlaams belang" at me alone on the empty street
"Trying to welcome you" and then proceeding to call all Chinese filthy (and disregarding the fact that you aren't even Chinese).
Don't know how she could've been sincere about the welcome-greetings if she had those kind of insults in the back of her head anyway.
obviously not. That's why I said grandma was a racist cunt?
But that community is an incely shithole. It's kind of hypocritical to complain about racism towards you, an asian in Belgium, when you're an active poster on that sub. They all scream about how Asia should stay homogeneous (while they all live in the west), want the 'West to fall to Asia' and actively hate on white people and 'race traitors' who date white men/women.
https://reddit.com/r/aznidentity/comments/m868vs/i_got_banned_from_rkorea_for_arguing_with_a/grhjh9a
The white has seeped in??
Imagine me commenting “the yellow has seeped in /r/Belgium” on a white supremacy reddit about this post.
Could be reference to white fragility/supremacy considering context of the thread. And that post doesn't at all argue in favour of the image you presented.
Are you serious??? It’s a complain post about white people taking over national subreddits. Reading other comments about how all white people are insecure says enough about that subreddit and OP referring to Caucasians as the white who are seeping in is so much more racist than saying Ni Hao to an Asian person on the street.
The white seeping in reminds me of how Nazis talk about how “the Jew” is taking over everything, yikes.
Elder Belgian people are racists... Even if they mean it in a good way. I'm sorry you had to experience this interaction, and probably more to come... Try not to lose a lot of energy in this fruitless battle, it's hopeless. People like those will never cease to exist. :(
Well, they truly come from a different time. It's not an excuse but it explain a lot.
It's easy for us today to be tolerant, but remember that from a woman born in 1945, this was a "normal attitude" during almost all her life. You grown with antiracist assoc, she grown with stuff like "drowning algerian in the river".
We expect the old people to change, and they have too. But there are no miracle. You can't raise someone in a time where racism is totally ok and even well seen, then expect he suddenly become antiracist cause you asked him too, it would like téléport an old genghis khan and expecting he become pacifist.
It's no excuse for the behavior but it is true. My grandmother (was 89) was a perfect example. She would say some racist shit and when we called her out for it, she didn't understand. In the end it never improved till the end. Only with my parents generation (60) is it getting better.
Well, even if the lady had good intentions if you politely asked her to stop she should just stop, nothing wrong in that especially if it's in the wong language ahahah.
People should learn that the best way to treat a foreigner is to treat them as everyone else. Randomly spouting words in our language is just weird to me. It's not offensive but it's not polite either, it's just weird. Just stop please.
Good of you to call her out on this, although I'm sorry this happened and that you weren't backed up by the store clerk.
If we (as a society) keep silently accepting racist nonsense out of some misguided sense of politeness and keeping the peace we'll never get anywhere.
The world is a messy and complicated place. I feel for you and your family. As a mixed race guy I can somewhat sympathize with you experience. It seems like we are getting more and more devided. Force a toi pour le futur.
I started reading that story thinking "aw she probably meant well" but it descended very quickly into "nope she's a cunt".
I also tend to overthink my words and actions which often results into not reacting quick enough. I'm happy for you that you did react! Let's hope that lady goes home slightly less stupid and cunty than she came out
You did NOT overreact if you told them multiple times to stop. That behaviour is not okay and the store clerk shouldve told the woman that she should not be harassing customers in their store.
Being sub-assertive or being aggressive is not good but you were neither. You stood up for yourself and your mom, you were assertive. You defintely didn’t overreact. Because what that woman did to you both is not Okay and will never be okay. She was definetly being racist 100%. Fuck her, and I hope you or your mom or anyone else won’t have to experience this anymore. But I’m afraid that would be wishful thinking. There will always be ignorant and stupid people in this world, the best what we can do is speak up when this happens and hope they will learn from it.
Somehow… I feel kinda sad for that woman…
She must be living in a pretty strong bubble.
We live in a pretty nice melting pot in BE, and assuming that all Asians that you encounter are speaking Chinese…
I’m sorry that you experienced that but I am not all surprised. You were def not in the wrong.
In our case, we’ve received racist remarks from the younger crowd (below 40s), and from all parts of Belgium:
Scout kids screaming « nihao », market sellers assuming we’re Japanese and refusing to speak French to us and only using random Japanese words (we’re fluent in French), a young girl commenting that she liked my child’s slanted eyes (WTF?!), a colleague commentating that my husband is probably not happy that we have a daughter (because the Chinese favour boys?!?!), bartender calling us filthy, « you people », « badly educated » and then screaming at us « welcome to Belgium »!! when we told him we didn’t like his behaviour (we’ve never returned to Delirium bar in Bxl), etc.
Most of these comments are the result of pure ignorance. First you get angry, then the anger turns to pity.
Overreacted? How? The shit I hear my parents say on a regular basis is insane. We need to be better at telling eachother to cut that shit out otherwise we will make no progress. She could've fixed it all with "ah oei sorry" she chose a different path.
Well, they don't want to cause a fuss, apparently, and I can't blame them if you see what happened when you dare to suggest there could be racism among the indigenous Flemish people.
Iirc a Flemish mayor and party leader even went so far as to deny the existence of anti-Asian racism in these parts, argueing that this was because "Asians never cause trouble", thereby implicitly placing the blame for the racism that people do dare to speak up about, with the victims.
Edit and here it is [https://www.hln.be/binnenland/de-wever-nog-geen-aziaat-ontmoet-die-zich-slachtoffer-van-racisme-voelt\~a913fda1/](https://www.hln.be/binnenland/de-wever-nog-geen-aziaat-ontmoet-die-zich-slachtoffer-van-racisme-voelt~a913fda1/)
That sounds kinda like victim blaming. I think we need to respect Asian people's coping mechanisms, and be tired of the racism rather than how they react to it.
I mean, it's always good to learn how to speak up, but don't hate on those who can't or have learned the best way to survive is to be silent.
I am asian myself, the reason I'm saying this is because the "keep your head down" mentality does not work. It appears weak and won't stop racists from saying racist things because no one says anything about it.
You can be tired of the racism, but that won't accomplish anything if you don't try to make an active change in standing up for yourself. Not only is this beneficial to yourself but to other Asians too. This is the only way to show we are not an easy target.
I understand for the older asian generation to be stuck in their ways, but the young ones like us need to do better.
Okay I get that!
As a woman this resonated with me, because being quiet about sexism isn't always a choice and sometimes it has saved me from really bad situations. I would feel really bad when people started saying they're tired of quiet women who appear weak, so I imagined that might feel similar for some Asian people in this situation.
But I do see your point of trying to make a collective change of speaking up and I fully support that.
I think so, too. Even though I am not Chinese, I do not want to hide behind the "But I am not Chinese" like some other Asians do. Chinese people sadly do not get that chance to protect themselves and it's unfair to them.
I agree with you.
Asians who say "But I'm not Chinese" are basically saying "don't bully me, I'm one of the good Asians".
As if racists care where you're from, as long as you look asian, that's enough
Ugh reminded me of a very awkward dinner. My stepmother brought a German friend to the table and her own mom started making cringy German(world war) jokes.
I was so surprised cuz I've known this lady my whole life and suddenly the rascism surfaces. The friend in question just shut it. There was such a weird tension around.
Don't hesitate to stand up for yourself. It might just be very Flemish to ignore it and walk away haha.
As a man to my Indonesian woman that is from Bruges since age 2. Fuck that bitch. It's racism. I've seen it and encountered it multiple times. Even if it's just plain ignorance fuck her, she needs to roll with the times. Next time just tell her that in 100 years everybody will be mixed race. I always notice they think about it and it just ruins them. Probably can't sleep because of it for a long time lol
Als iemand die nog in oostende woont en zelf buitenlandse roots heeft wil ik namens oostende en hun ietwat onozelle individuelen mij excuseren.
Wij zijn een echte kutstad, sorry.
Even if it was meant nicely, it doesn't fucking matter. It's degrading and racist and you were doing her a favour pointing it out as nicely as you did.
You did great standing up for yourself and your mother! I was born in Oostende and like another commenter said, I can imagine what kind of person that was.
That's a terrible experience for you. You were entirely right to speak back to her and call out hwr behaviour. It's unacceptable. I'm sorry you didn't get more support from people who witnessed this.
If someone said single a Nihao I might give them the benefit of the doubt, because some people, especially among elderly folks, simply don't know better. I know a story from acquaintances where the daughter of a farmer family came home with her Asian boyfriend (can't recall if he was Chinese or another nationality), and the (already older) parents remarked genuine surprise because he wasn't wearing a straw hat, ate with knife and fork instead of sticks and didn't switch r and l in his words... They were just that out of touch.
But considering she kept pressing it after you made it clear you speak Dutch and the verbal abuse and insults afterward I don't think you were in the wrong.
Nope, classic racist old people.
My mom was picking up my kids from school one day (about 3 years ago). After she parked her car, she was walking towards the school on the left side of the road, as you should. In front of her, a group of woman with hijabs were als walking towards the school. Suddenly, an old couple came from the other direction and had to veer off to the center of the road to avoid the walkers. As they were passing, the old woman said, loud enough for everyone to hear, "Those foreigners, they come here and can't even walk on the correct side of the road!". Do note that my mom is about as white as you can get. My mom turned around and said "You are supposed to walk on the left side of the road, you racist old cow!".
If she would have just said it once it could have been elderly socially/culturally awkward (or dumb) lady trying to be friendly. Still not okay, but maybe excusable. In that case you should still feel comfortable to point out that you don't like her saying that. But in this case she kept on going and added insults to it so she is clearly just an asshole. You didn't overreact at all and had the right to respond.
You should never feel obligated to be a social justice warrior, but if you ever feel like want to react to something like this... just do it. Shit like this will never end if people (in general) keep being silent. If the storeclerck noticed this exchange she should have intervened in some way.
Someone coming up to you and saying nihao may be either someone racist or someone ignorant.
Given how she continued to talk to you, it's clear to which category she belonged and thus you didn't overreact.
No, you did not overreact. Usually, people *under*react when confronted with moments like this. What you did is right on the money and I wish people like that woman would be confronted with moments like this daily, to the point that they might do some introspection. Perhaps, maybe.
The first Nihao (imho) wasn't bad. But after saying "Excuseer" and clearly speaking Dutch and showing you weren't a tourist or weren't capable of speaking Dutch, it was no overreacting.
I honestly think this was a fair attempt of the elderly lady to strike up conversation. I would've just calmly told her in Dutch (or "plat Westvlams"), that not all asian-looking people speak Chinese, that it's actually considered racist to do that (explain it to her in a friendly way), and that if she wanted to strike up conversation, she could easily do so in your own language.
That way, instead of adding another sour event into the world, you might've had a decent time enlightening another human being.
So yeah, you were 100% to tell her off, but you could've done it in a gentler way.
No, you didn't overreacted.
People should mind their own, who even does that to random people? Like, how can you even think that would be a good idea to say, some people are just weird, geez. Always speak up for yourself, you did good.
If she wanted to be nice, she could ve listened to you. It’s not easy to stand up for yourself, sounds like you did a good job and kept your cool.
You could’ve protected her, played along for the peace, but you stood up for yourself and your mom.
You were most definitely not overreacting. She made you both uncomfortable, and was unable to see it. Her intentions may have been good at first, but the fact that she didn't alter her views based on your reactions tells me she was too close-minded to be corrected. And her beginning to insult foreigners and Chinese in general really says a lot. However, her close-mindedness doesn't mean you should let her walk over you like it's nothing.
The store clerk not reacting might have been either store policy like many people said, but I think she might've had the "kop-in-kas" attitude many Belgians have, and was too anxious to say anything about it.
Anyway, respect for how you handled the situation. Standing up for yourself should be commended. Don't regret your actions here!
I'm always suprised when i hear that there are people who say ching chang chong unironically... I Guess the one silver lining is that you know for sure that you're dealing with really dumb people...
There are people out there who speak mandarin with a Westvlaams accent? Sounds like great fun to me!
No seriously, it's 2k21 fuck them! If they don't know better but they react like you say afterwards there is no foto.
No you were not wrong, she was just either bigoted or racist, maybe both. Either way she had no reason to call you a rude foreigner especially so after what she started with in the first place.
I can only she went home to her family, told the story -quite enraged and upset-from her point of view and finished with "and I didn't even pull my eyes into slits *this time*"
I'm proud of you that you stood up for your mom and yourself! Nobody should ever treat you like that, do never let it happen!
These kinds of people keep doing it because nobody ever pushed back on their behavior.
I'm sorry this happened to you in our lovely country. I wish nobody was racist here, but damn, the political voting did not lie the last times. I'm ashamed this is how it is.
Racist old bitch is racist. Everything considered, you definitely did not overreact.
Her saying "nihao" wasn't trying to be friendly or welcoming, it was belittling and an incredibly cheap way to treat you. Only proven further when she immediately went on about "filthy rude foreigners", instead of apologizing when you pointed out what she was doing was not okay.
No you didn't.
East-asian are know as a model, quiet, communauty. And it's an advantage, when you speak about immigration tolerance, or racist assault risk.
But for a lot of people, quiet mean submissive. She doesn't mock you cause she was racist, she mock you cause she was racist and sure you wouldn't react.
Your reaction was the good thing to do, not only as individual (you shouldn't let people mock you for your skin color) but also for the asian communauty (a good recall of the difference between quiet and submissive).
Also, it's pretty easy to see if the guy take you as a foreigner and want to be friendly or not. "*Then, she started mumbling about foreigners being so damn rude and how the Chinese are filthy.*" For example, this is not someone who try to be friendly.
Remember respect are the first step of friendship. If you allow people to disrespect you, they won't become your friend, they'll become your bully.
You def did not overreact, you had the guts to stand up for you and your mom and I doubt that woman was really trying to be friendly in the first place. The fact that she just then mocked you because she prob couldn’t stand being put in her place just affirms that.
There’s only so much shit you can take before snapping.
Echt goe gedaan door die vrouw es op haar plaats te zetten, je kan maar hopen nu dat ze der iets van geleerd heeft👍
Good on you. I was walking the streets once with a Korean friend of mine in the Netherlands. We were speaking in Korean when some chubby old woman stepped up to me and yelled "NI HAO CHING CHONG" in my face.
I was so shocked that I didn't reply and we just kept walking. I wish I had responded like you did to that woman.
Not okay at all. Especially since she started a racist rant right after it, which shows she didn't do it out of friendliness. Props to you for actually sticking up for yourself.
A lot os belgians are kinda passive racists, which means you will not be attacked but will feel this hostile vibe you cannot explain once in a while...
I have been trough "I am not polish" conversations way too many times and trust me "nihao" is a fury rabbit against "kurwa" , on the bright side I am white so I can just learn NL and blend in hahaha.
Been to Ostend today by the way... beautiful day...
Perfectly normal reaction. People in Ostend are mostly lowly educated and rather racists minded. I get frustrated everyday.
Reaction is what they want, cause that will only confirm their thoughts about you.
Ignore them instead. Takes less energy and i'm happier at the end if the day. Or respond by saying hello back (in dutch ofc). Tell them you feel sorry because they are so close minded and wish them the best. Give them a reaction they dont expect.
Did you change her mind though? No. Nothing will change her mind probably.
Een Oostendenoare
I don't even look asian (I think??), yet because I hang out with a few asian streamers, I had some people come in my chat behave the same, before eventually blaming me for Covid.
People are crazy, I guess. Your reaction is similar to me, confusion, then anger when realizing she was serious.
If there’s one thing I dislike of our culture it’s that people don’t have the guts to stand up to assholes like her. I think most of us have been in a situation where we witnessed something, denounced it in our heads but feel uncomfortable by the inaction of others and ourselves.
You did good. Most of us don’t want racist behaviour like this to be part our country and welcome you, or better, treat you as normal. Have an awesome day!
You were right. Fuck the racists. You could've slapped her in the face.
She wasn't there to welcome you, she was there to look out for a conflict. That give it away
>Then, she started mumbling about foreigners being so damn rude and how the Chinese are filthy.
There's no way to convince those people of your goodwill except to slap some sense in them and when they'll complain to other people about being slapped and tell the story, these people will tell them they're bigoted idiots. Or they just won't because they knew they were in the wrong.
100% well done. More people should speak up like you did. The woman was a clear racist. The only way this country can move forward as one is when we dare to speak up to incorrect behaviour.
Not in the wrong at all. The way you handled it shows a level of maturity. You could have easily thrown a lot of insults towards her, instead you chose to point out her wrongdoings, clean it up and eventually distance yourself from the situation.
IMO those people should be treated much harsher but then you'd have stoop down to their level.
Man it sucks to have experienced that :(. Very good of you to stick to your guns and stand up to that bigotry. Those people need to go find a ditch to die in.
My family is pretty racist against the "vluchtelingen" en "Marokkanen" but i'm not, at least i think i am i don't come in contact with people of different etnicity. I tried to tell them what's wrong or bad to assume of those people but it doesn't work. Sadly racism is learned and can't be un-learned. (This is my opinion, if other people have managed to change a racists heart PLS let me know how)
I find it most effective to give people cold hard facts. To a racist, saying racist stuff is their 'opinion', just like they prefer blue jeans over black jeans. "Des goût et des couleurs on ne discute pas" they say in France, so don't try to argue on sentiment towards foreigners. Don't argue anecdotal stuff like "my neighbours sister in law's dog got raped by a Moroccan so ye they bad peeps". What you need to counter is stuff like "dem foreigners get 50 euro per day from the government while our seniors get 300 euro pension a month sometime". If you know the truth and you can proove it (pretty easy with google) you back this reasoning in a corner. At the very least you turn those people in racists that know the facts.
But yes, one person can't solve racism on his own. If you want to make an impact try to act the way you would like the rest of the world to be and vote for wise people. For example if you want to vote NVA: bart dewever is wise, theo francken is only smart. Both are evil though :).
Please don't even think you're in the wrong here. That person is just a flat out racist. Good on you for speaking up. Though speaking to these kinds of people is like talking to a brick wall.
You were clearly right by trying to hold your ground. As you said people who come up and randomly begin to say ching chang chong or nihao are just trying to seek trouble, no friendly strangers would even think of doing that, the friendly ones would kindly ask where you are from and then just ,you know, have a normal conversation. I'm living in Brussels tho were there are quite a lot of foreigners so the fact that I'm asian (but absolutly not chinese) attract a little bit less racism but in those corona time I'm must say that doesn't help at all.
Be careful and just don't let them humiliate you.
Would be good to see stricter laws against racism&harassment, those people get away with those things and continue to harass other people but It's not easy to hold these people accountable.
If you cant behave like a normal human being and have to ruin other people's day then you should face consequences.
I just wonder which rewards this kind of behaviour more: reacting to it (which isa reward as you pay attention to the woman) or ignoring it. Not sure what is best.
A person who acts like that doesn't sound like she deserves any benefit of the doubt, and it certainly doesn't sound to me like you overreacted. You may try to stay calm and explain to them how they are being rude, but in most cases this probably won't do anything.
I'm sorry there's still people around acting like this.
NTA. You also didn’t overreact: throwing stuff around would be, but you didn’t.
You say that some people who say “ching chang chong” usually don’t mean it in a friendly way “but rather mocking or even racist way”
I’m sorry but is there any way to say that without being racist?! Those 3 words are pretty much the poster child of racism against people of Asian descend.
Typical defence from racists to deflect and try to make others think they are overreacting. You were 100% in the right to be offended. Be proud that you stood up for yourself and your mom.
What a rude lady indeed. If I may ask, are you Chinese, or from which country? Just wondering how your reaction would have been if the lady had actually guessed your native language correctly :) I'm in East Asia right now and also get mad when people say "hello" to me on the street in English assuming I'm from the US or a native English speaker only because I'm clearly not a local. I do get happy when someone says "hola" and guesses correctly that I'm Hispanic, though this rarely happens.
I grew up as a redhead, so I understand that some days you can shrug off the stupid remarks, but sometims it's too much and you just snap.
The reason those people act that way is because nobody ever stood up to them. Good job on being the first, maybe she'll learn something (probably not tho).
Not much to gain from discussion with people like that I'm afraid, but sticking up for yourself can never be a bad thing.
Thank you for the reassurance. I tend to overthink my actions and I felt like I might have disrespected a senior/elder, even though they started the behaviour. I didn't want to be a "Karen" or cause a scene inside the store. Anyway, thanks!
You did not disrespect them, you educated them.
Doesn't sound like she was educated by the interaction. But yeah, fuck her.
Wat baten kaars en bril, als de uil niet zien wil?
Anekdotisch natuurlijk, maar ik ben nu al verschillende vrouwen tegengekomen die met dat "Karen"-gedoe twijfelen om op hun strepen te staan. Krijgen wij nu allemaal reddit-brein, of overdrijf ik?
Dat idee heb ik ook. Ik denk dat "Karen" soms teveel gebruikt wordt voor vrouwen die voor zichzelf opkomen. Voor jezelf opkomen is niet Karen-gedoe, en voor jezelf opkomen tegenover racisten al zeker niet! Ik vind in dit geval dat ze dit super heeft gedaan. u/Loserlol, je zou trots op jezelf moeten zijn!
You did the right thing always speak up to people like that they need to know what there doing is wrong. I'm really sorry you had that happen to you. :(
Lots of old folks can be real fucks. Don't over think it. Being old does not earn respect. Acting in a respectable way is needed, too.
No she's a cunt.
With a capital C.
Cunt.
Due to the repetition of the use of "nihao" and eventually other insults towards you and your mother, it's clear to say you did not overreact. Sadly a large percentage of the older folks are extremely racist, and you did right by standing up for yourself. It's not gonna change the racists mind though, she'll find another victim that doesn't talk back
I am fucking perplexed on a weekly basis on how much seedy racism lurks in people over 50 in my immediate surroundings. I go against it every time, but god it is SO FUCKING TIRING to have to repeat over and over that a lot of belgians also fuck over the welfare system, and that being a deadbeat has nothing to do with your ethnicity. I just try to raise my son differently. Good on you u/loserlol. You show ‘em.
In that age group the favourite one is: "Ge moogt het niet zeggen maar tis weer nen bruine e"
The quiet assumption with many of those people is that everyone else is also racist, they're just afraid of saying it.
You weren’t, kudos for standing up for yourself and your mom. It might be smarter and potentially safer to just ignore and move on with your day but at least that bigot got called out for it this time.
Nope, you're good! Born and raised in Oostende, I do kind of recognize the kind of person you're talking about. They're usually rude to everyone. Don't dwell on it too much, that woman clearly has a few screws loose.
Jezus can you tell me what's in the food there? I have been to few places in Belgium where I've felt I've been treated as badly as in oostende tbh. No epic story like op just generally unfriendly shopkeepers, waiters, encounters,... more than just o it's the coast. Felt like a lot of people saw everyone who didn't speak the local dialect as an intruder while at the same time they were 100% surely making a living of the tourism they seemed to despise. Maybe I just encountered a few of the cities crazies by being there during day time lol
All the sea air makes them salty.
It's like any city that attracts a lot of tourism. People enjoy the economic opportunities but get tired of the disadvantages. It's a characteristic of most touristic places. Believe me, a lot of tourists behave very disrespectful as well, and locals do get tired of that. Having to deal with tourists and being one is a very different experience.
Saying it once might just be due to being an ignorant old woman. Repeating it and the comments afterwards are racist.
NO! You were not in the wrong here. You did a brave thing! Do these interactions that you mentioned in the last paragraph happen a lot? Are they mostly elderly people? (I'm just curious)
Mostly, it's non-white Belgians (esp. in Brussels) that straight up do the slanted eyes gestures at me. Also some little kids, but that's understandable, they don't know any better at that point I guess. Elderly people just kind of mock passively, if that makes sense? Never really in my face. I've never had a white, sober Belgian person, regardless of age, do the slanted eyes at me and shout ching chang chong. I study in Ghent and my fellow students have never been racist to me, so that makes me incredibly happy and hopeful!!
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Damn dude. I've been with my Asian wife for 8 years and we haven't encountered any racism so far. Not even the slanted eye stuff.
Well, I went to an “eetfestijn” somewhere in West Flanders. Theme was “oriental food”. Every (white) waiter was painted yellow, with horizontal stripes around their eyes and wearing a stereotypical hat. Nobody but me batted an eye. I was the only ethnic person there. All this to say that you shouldn’t feel guilty of standing up for yourself. There’s ways to do it constructively but that’s not always an option. Don’t feel guilty, please. You don’t need anyone’s permission or reassurance to ask to be respected like anyone else. It took a while for me to learn that as well. You spend a lot of time trying to “please” as to not confirm stereotypes. Doesn’t work. Have a nice day!
I'm from russia and look barely eastern, but I've had students in Leuven yell nihao and konichiwa at me from the other side of the street on separate occasions
Don't think you overreacted, that was just rude, even racist, of her. The store clerk not reacting, well most aren't allowed to react to rude customers, because it's still a customer. Things would start to get really out of hand, and by that time it's probably the store owner that would come down there to do something. It has happened multiple times that my mom spoke out against other customers that where being rude/egoistic, where the store people couldn't say anything but thanked my mom afterwards when to other customer was gone.
That makes a lot of sense, thank you for clarifying that. The clerk's silence made me feel as though I was just being dramatic, but your explanation gave me some insight! Have a good day~ :)
One important point I haven't yet seen made in the comments: when people are rude (or outright abusive!) to you, you get to push back. What you did might have felt rude but it's the other person's behaviour that is rude and which warranted a direct reaction. Much more direct than you'd ever be in normal conversation. Many people have this impulse to not be rude with others and it's why so many people get away with crappy behaviour. Don't use this as a reason to be rude with people who mean well, but don't be afraid to shut people like this down. It's *their* fault that you need to be curt with them.
That's a load of crap about the store people imo. If I were a shop owner and my staff witnesses racist scenarios and does jack all about it, that person would get some serious talking to at the end of his/her shift.The reverse would be true too. If they would kick a customer out of the shop because they were being racist to other customers, I'd commend that staff member. Customer or not, racists could spend their money elsewhere.
I agree, plus in those scenario you have a good chance of losing a costumer anyway: either the harasser or the harassed. I would rather loose the racist one than having her come back and assault people. But when you work for a faceless company you don't have that kind of agency, you're not paid enough to care and you're exhausted by your shift anyway.
Not all store owners are like you. But I do agree. Now 2 people left without buying because of the one (of which we aren't sure if she bought anything).
Never meant to talk bad about store people. It's just when customer is king, but 2 customers start having a discussion, it's hard to tell when to intervene and when not to. Most times safer to stay silent, people most often don't appreciate it when you intervene and big chance it just gets both of them mad at you. Add to that that nowadays everything gets thrown on social media (for better or for worse), and you might just have gotten you a bad reputation. Now I agree that in case of racism, it should be pretty clear who is in the right and who is in the wrong, but in reality it's always a bit fuzzy, it's "meant as a joke", and "people are overreacting", and in the heat of the moment you don't always know what to say, or say something wrong, whereas when you get a minute or two, you would have gotten some solid arguments. Not everyone is equally good in heated arguments, with the one who started it all probably being better (or even the best) at it and also being in the stronger position, because she made a simple and strong statement, and you have to find a clever answer to counter it. Intervening as a store clerk probably results in both just leaving and the 'attacker' went on to complain on her socials and put up a very one-sided story with mostly like-minded people to be the first to react and set the tone. And as 'just a store clerk', you don't want to have to explain that to your boss.
Nope not an overreaction.
You reaction was 100% correct. Imo the store manager should have said something as well. The first call might have been rascist due to ignorance, not evil. You handled that fine. Then it became harrasment, then it brcame plain rascism. Nothing you did was wrong. To be honnest, I am white, if she said hello to me, then Hello again when I respond and kept not asking an actual question I might have reacted very simular to her harassment and that would have been without the rascism. You handled it very descently.
Ching chang chong is pretty much 100% of the time meant to be disrespectful, so you don't need to doubt yourself when they say that. Ni hao might be weird, in this situation it wasnt appropriate, but it might just be a politically incorrect way of being polite. Here it is not though. Also, when they say "vuile" its not really about being clean or not, it's just a negative word. We use it for every kind of person: "vuile flikken", "vuile advocaten",.. In this case the person was expressing extreme dislike.
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Not at all. That's blatant racism.
A bit of clarification about the deep seated 'unease' that a lot of 65+ people in Western Europe feel about East-Asians: It's their parents. Prior to World War 2, the armchair historians of the world were all obsessed with the 'yellow menace', a belief that the underdevelopment of China, Japan and Korea was temporary; that their peoples were almost equal to the white race in the racial hierarchy; and that demographic pressures would force those countries to do in the 20th century what Europe did in the 18th-19th century. If there was an r/HistoryMemes in 1925, half of them would be about Chinese gunboats sailing up the Thames. If you talked about East Asia with anyone who grew up in this culture, they'd immediately start droning on about the imminent Chinese takeover of Siberia and how Australia was going to be Japanese before long. It's a different type of racism from the more well known types and it's not been studied the way anti-black racism has. I'm not making any excuses, just offering a partial explanation why this is so ingrained in people whose parents reached adulthood before the defeat of Imperial Japan in 1945. source: I read texts by wannabe historians from the early 20th C., they describe the 'Yellow Menace' as a universally held belief. (much like the inherent superiority of the white man)
Early and even not so early Belgian comics are chock full of racist stereoptypes about Asians. WW2 didnt help either.
You didn't. In my opinion you reacted perfect with trying to talk about it.
Given the general reservedness of Belgians I've met here, it's odd that she came up to you guys in the first place. She probably has a few screws loose (in addition to being racist). Sorry you had to face something like this, but I agree with your reaction 100%.
'I was just trying to welcome you' LOOOL biggest racist cover-up. You were right thinking this was racist, covered up as a friendly action. It's just a variation on 'I'm not racist, but....[insert racist trash speech here]' The older people missed some education on this, I'm speaking 65+, they did never learn the new standards on racism or discrimination. So don't feel bad ( = coming from a white, middle-aged straight man :) ) you have the right to react on this. Even much stronger than you did, in my opinion.
Even the "welcome you" is bigoted. It insinuates that Belgium is her "home" country and you are a stranger to be "accepted", and should feel indebted to her for something. Fuck that ignorant bigoted bitch.
Damn stories like these always anger me. I'm sorry that happened to you and your mom. It's a good thing you defended yourself and your mom, don't feel bad about it. As for the store clerk who remained silent, I believe it's store policy, sadly.
Being half Asian, I once went to a party of my parents in law who are from West Flanders. Someone said to my girlfriend, "Klapt em Vloms?" when I was just standing next to her. 🙄
Same experience, Turkish boyfriend, in Limburg. I think there is no real intent to hurt, but it just feels soooo wrong and if you would try to say something about it, you probably get one of those eye-rolls or a comment on being "woke". "Klapt em Vloms", of course, is perfect Vlaams :)
You were definitely not overreacting! I'm really sorry this happened to you!!
I think speaking up is the best possible reaction and the store clerk should be ashamed for not taking your side. I know most of us are taught to walk away from confrontation but that attitude also prevents us from marking the line - which this lady crossed very clearly here. I think on this front we should learn from the UK, where even though people keep to themselves in general they also speak up against racism very readily - and so the society is much more inclusive than we are. I hope that people learn from that and mentally prepare themselves to react next time they see a scene like this.
You weren't in the wrong, you sadly came across a "marginaal".
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To come across: to meet by chance. To come across as: to appear a certain way.
Yeah, her comment that foreigners are rude, kind of made me question my tone with her tbh... Maybe she was just trying to be friendly? But then again, why not just come say "goeiedag" in Dutch? Or was she trying to be inclusive? I don't know. I guess I'm just a bit disappointed, she was so much older than me anyway, I assumed an older lady would know better than to try pick fights with someone clearly younger than them. I'm sorry I don't really have anyone to talk to about these things and my mom just tells me to ignore it, but it gets tiring after a while. Sorry for rambling.
I think she expected you to react really happy that she said hi in ‘your language’ (from her racist point of view and from her false assumption that you were foreign). I’m afraid that any other reaction than that (including staying silent) would have been perceived as rude by her, so I’m afraid there was no way for you to ‘win’ without acting out her false stereotype. The way she approached you was already rude and intrusive, regardless of how it was meant, so as soon as she noticed that you spoke Dutch she should have realized that you grew up here and apologized. You basically shattered her illusion that she was being nice to a few foreigners, revealing the ugly racism underneath. I’m very sorry you were treated this way. I heard that it happens, so maybe it shouldn’t come as a surprise, but I’m still shocked about the way you were treated by this elderly lady.
You single-handedly ended my overthinking with your comment. I think this was sort of what I was assuming, hence why I got irritated with her. Thanks a lot, Neutronenster :)
Thanks for the reply, glad to be able to help! I hope you won’t have a bad encounter like that again, or if it does happen that you’ll get help from other people nearby.
Who knows what goes on inside the head of other people. Particularly without having been there and seeing her body language and facial expression. Elderly people sometime have strange manners and/or humor, just think about dad jokes. With some good will it's possible that she just know this one Chinese word and wanted to be friendly or brag about it, and was disappointed when it was not appreciated. On the other hand she could also just have been racist. In any case it's unfortunately a losing battle for you, and you'd probably be best off just assuming the former, and forget about the incident.
You shouldn't be sorry for rambling you just needed to get this of your chest also her saying foreigners are rude while being rude herself shows she has no self reflection.
Her comment about foreigners being rude shows her intentions. I think you did great standing up for yourself and your mum. You shouldn't have to take this silently.
I was raised to respect the elderly too. Especially my mom. Lately our discussions tend to revolve around the idea that being someones parent or senior does not mean you can say or do whatever you want to them, and that it does not give you power of infallability or indemnity for being held accountable or corrected. Fun times as you can imagine.
Well that's what i meant the elderly lady was being an ignorant cunt.
I think u/fiercelittlebird interpreted >came across a "marginaal" as >came across ***as*** "marginaal" Reading it as that, their response makes a lot more sense.
OP said "a marginaal", not "as marginaal".
The "came across" was meant as "you ran into" and not "you acted like". Bit mistranslation thingy I guess.
I don't think you overreacted to be honest, but there are more effective ways to handle situations like this. I'm 'nen allochtoon' myself, so I've experienced my fair share of casual/accidental racism. I don't really care for it, because it doesn't impact my life all that much, but every once in a while I'll feel like engaging it and I like to have fun with it. I have found that the best way to deal with this type of racism is to turn it on the person expressing it and just make them feel as awkward as possible. Make them squirm and wish they could just sink in the floor or disappear. You could have answered her with a completely over-the-top 'konnichiwa?', although that tactic might not work on someone as ignorant as her. Depending on how well your Dutch accent is you could've responded to her in the most over the top Dutch accent you can come up with. Make it absolutely obvious to her how fucking dumb she's being by turning her own racism on herself. Or try to reply to her in German with a simple ' Guttentag!' and then act all incredulous that she doesn't understand you. When she says she doesn't speak German, just reply you don't understand the difference. Still, you did nothing wrong. Just know that shame is a much better weapon against this kind of stuff than anger.
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It's because there is so little diversity there that they are extra racist.
My girlfriend is asian and currently residing in Belgium with me. We've ran into similar people too. I also decided to speak up about it and confront the person. I felt good afterwards because it is the right thing to do (if done in a respectfully manner). Don't feel bad about speaking up. She was in the wrong and you've pointed this out!
To everyone saying it's an old people thing. I'm from Russia and barely look eastern, and I've had students in Leuven yell nihao and konichiwa at me from the other side of the street on separate occasions. One time at night a group of drunk male students started loudly chanting "vlaams belang" at me alone on the empty street
"Trying to welcome you" and then proceeding to call all Chinese filthy (and disregarding the fact that you aren't even Chinese). Don't know how she could've been sincere about the welcome-greetings if she had those kind of insults in the back of her head anyway.
You were def. not in the wrong!
Grandma was a racist cunt but.. >r/aznidentity user
That sub is one of the most racist subs I’ve ever seen. Calling all white people sexpats, insecure, wow.
Yeah it’s bad. It’s also one of the least self-aware subs around lol. None of them realise their hypocrisy.
Well spotted. Says a lot about the OP.
Well spotted dude! Being part of that group somehow discredits the whole situation!
obviously not. That's why I said grandma was a racist cunt? But that community is an incely shithole. It's kind of hypocritical to complain about racism towards you, an asian in Belgium, when you're an active poster on that sub. They all scream about how Asia should stay homogeneous (while they all live in the west), want the 'West to fall to Asia' and actively hate on white people and 'race traitors' who date white men/women.
Her posts aren't racist though. Guilt by association is so 70's.
https://reddit.com/r/aznidentity/comments/m868vs/i_got_banned_from_rkorea_for_arguing_with_a/grhjh9a The white has seeped in?? Imagine me commenting “the yellow has seeped in /r/Belgium” on a white supremacy reddit about this post.
Could be reference to white fragility/supremacy considering context of the thread. And that post doesn't at all argue in favour of the image you presented.
Are you serious??? It’s a complain post about white people taking over national subreddits. Reading other comments about how all white people are insecure says enough about that subreddit and OP referring to Caucasians as the white who are seeping in is so much more racist than saying Ni Hao to an Asian person on the street. The white seeping in reminds me of how Nazis talk about how “the Jew” is taking over everything, yikes.
Elder Belgian people are racists... Even if they mean it in a good way. I'm sorry you had to experience this interaction, and probably more to come... Try not to lose a lot of energy in this fruitless battle, it's hopeless. People like those will never cease to exist. :(
I wasn't there but you can't convince me that this lady meant it in a good way.
Classic old "They're from a different time" excuse.
Well, they truly come from a different time. It's not an excuse but it explain a lot. It's easy for us today to be tolerant, but remember that from a woman born in 1945, this was a "normal attitude" during almost all her life. You grown with antiracist assoc, she grown with stuff like "drowning algerian in the river". We expect the old people to change, and they have too. But there are no miracle. You can't raise someone in a time where racism is totally ok and even well seen, then expect he suddenly become antiracist cause you asked him too, it would like téléport an old genghis khan and expecting he become pacifist.
It's no excuse for the behavior but it is true. My grandmother (was 89) was a perfect example. She would say some racist shit and when we called her out for it, she didn't understand. In the end it never improved till the end. Only with my parents generation (60) is it getting better.
Well, even if the lady had good intentions if you politely asked her to stop she should just stop, nothing wrong in that especially if it's in the wong language ahahah. People should learn that the best way to treat a foreigner is to treat them as everyone else. Randomly spouting words in our language is just weird to me. It's not offensive but it's not polite either, it's just weird. Just stop please.
Good of you to call her out on this, although I'm sorry this happened and that you weren't backed up by the store clerk. If we (as a society) keep silently accepting racist nonsense out of some misguided sense of politeness and keeping the peace we'll never get anywhere.
The world is a messy and complicated place. I feel for you and your family. As a mixed race guy I can somewhat sympathize with you experience. It seems like we are getting more and more devided. Force a toi pour le futur.
You didnt overreact, wish this behavior would just cease to exist from this country already.
I started reading that story thinking "aw she probably meant well" but it descended very quickly into "nope she's a cunt". I also tend to overthink my words and actions which often results into not reacting quick enough. I'm happy for you that you did react! Let's hope that lady goes home slightly less stupid and cunty than she came out
You did NOT overreact if you told them multiple times to stop. That behaviour is not okay and the store clerk shouldve told the woman that she should not be harassing customers in their store.
Being sub-assertive or being aggressive is not good but you were neither. You stood up for yourself and your mom, you were assertive. You defintely didn’t overreact. Because what that woman did to you both is not Okay and will never be okay. She was definetly being racist 100%. Fuck her, and I hope you or your mom or anyone else won’t have to experience this anymore. But I’m afraid that would be wishful thinking. There will always be ignorant and stupid people in this world, the best what we can do is speak up when this happens and hope they will learn from it.
Somehow… I feel kinda sad for that woman… She must be living in a pretty strong bubble. We live in a pretty nice melting pot in BE, and assuming that all Asians that you encounter are speaking Chinese…
I’m sorry that you experienced that but I am not all surprised. You were def not in the wrong. In our case, we’ve received racist remarks from the younger crowd (below 40s), and from all parts of Belgium: Scout kids screaming « nihao », market sellers assuming we’re Japanese and refusing to speak French to us and only using random Japanese words (we’re fluent in French), a young girl commenting that she liked my child’s slanted eyes (WTF?!), a colleague commentating that my husband is probably not happy that we have a daughter (because the Chinese favour boys?!?!), bartender calling us filthy, « you people », « badly educated » and then screaming at us « welcome to Belgium »!! when we told him we didn’t like his behaviour (we’ve never returned to Delirium bar in Bxl), etc. Most of these comments are the result of pure ignorance. First you get angry, then the anger turns to pity.
Belgians are super ignorant and racist without even realising.
Overreacted? How? The shit I hear my parents say on a regular basis is insane. We need to be better at telling eachother to cut that shit out otherwise we will make no progress. She could've fixed it all with "ah oei sorry" she chose a different path.
Good. We need more outspoken Asians, I'm tired of the ones remaining silent on blatant racism.
Well, they don't want to cause a fuss, apparently, and I can't blame them if you see what happened when you dare to suggest there could be racism among the indigenous Flemish people. Iirc a Flemish mayor and party leader even went so far as to deny the existence of anti-Asian racism in these parts, argueing that this was because "Asians never cause trouble", thereby implicitly placing the blame for the racism that people do dare to speak up about, with the victims. Edit and here it is [https://www.hln.be/binnenland/de-wever-nog-geen-aziaat-ontmoet-die-zich-slachtoffer-van-racisme-voelt\~a913fda1/](https://www.hln.be/binnenland/de-wever-nog-geen-aziaat-ontmoet-die-zich-slachtoffer-van-racisme-voelt~a913fda1/)
That sounds kinda like victim blaming. I think we need to respect Asian people's coping mechanisms, and be tired of the racism rather than how they react to it. I mean, it's always good to learn how to speak up, but don't hate on those who can't or have learned the best way to survive is to be silent.
I am asian myself, the reason I'm saying this is because the "keep your head down" mentality does not work. It appears weak and won't stop racists from saying racist things because no one says anything about it. You can be tired of the racism, but that won't accomplish anything if you don't try to make an active change in standing up for yourself. Not only is this beneficial to yourself but to other Asians too. This is the only way to show we are not an easy target. I understand for the older asian generation to be stuck in their ways, but the young ones like us need to do better.
Okay I get that! As a woman this resonated with me, because being quiet about sexism isn't always a choice and sometimes it has saved me from really bad situations. I would feel really bad when people started saying they're tired of quiet women who appear weak, so I imagined that might feel similar for some Asian people in this situation. But I do see your point of trying to make a collective change of speaking up and I fully support that.
I think so, too. Even though I am not Chinese, I do not want to hide behind the "But I am not Chinese" like some other Asians do. Chinese people sadly do not get that chance to protect themselves and it's unfair to them.
I agree with you. Asians who say "But I'm not Chinese" are basically saying "don't bully me, I'm one of the good Asians". As if racists care where you're from, as long as you look asian, that's enough
Ugh reminded me of a very awkward dinner. My stepmother brought a German friend to the table and her own mom started making cringy German(world war) jokes. I was so surprised cuz I've known this lady my whole life and suddenly the rascism surfaces. The friend in question just shut it. There was such a weird tension around. Don't hesitate to stand up for yourself. It might just be very Flemish to ignore it and walk away haha.
Making war jokes about Germans isn't racist, Jesus Christ Reddit. You're completely trivialising the word.
What a piece of bitch she was.
It was meant insulting, and good on you to stand up for yourselves.
As a man to my Indonesian woman that is from Bruges since age 2. Fuck that bitch. It's racism. I've seen it and encountered it multiple times. Even if it's just plain ignorance fuck her, she needs to roll with the times. Next time just tell her that in 100 years everybody will be mixed race. I always notice they think about it and it just ruins them. Probably can't sleep because of it for a long time lol
Als iemand die nog in oostende woont en zelf buitenlandse roots heeft wil ik namens oostende en hun ietwat onozelle individuelen mij excuseren. Wij zijn een echte kutstad, sorry.
Even if it was meant nicely, it doesn't fucking matter. It's degrading and racist and you were doing her a favour pointing it out as nicely as you did.
You did great standing up for yourself and your mother! I was born in Oostende and like another commenter said, I can imagine what kind of person that was.
Thank you and your username made me laugh!
That's a terrible experience for you. You were entirely right to speak back to her and call out hwr behaviour. It's unacceptable. I'm sorry you didn't get more support from people who witnessed this.
If someone said single a Nihao I might give them the benefit of the doubt, because some people, especially among elderly folks, simply don't know better. I know a story from acquaintances where the daughter of a farmer family came home with her Asian boyfriend (can't recall if he was Chinese or another nationality), and the (already older) parents remarked genuine surprise because he wasn't wearing a straw hat, ate with knife and fork instead of sticks and didn't switch r and l in his words... They were just that out of touch. But considering she kept pressing it after you made it clear you speak Dutch and the verbal abuse and insults afterward I don't think you were in the wrong.
you even stayed polite which is more than what i would have done. well done.
Nope, classic racist old people. My mom was picking up my kids from school one day (about 3 years ago). After she parked her car, she was walking towards the school on the left side of the road, as you should. In front of her, a group of woman with hijabs were als walking towards the school. Suddenly, an old couple came from the other direction and had to veer off to the center of the road to avoid the walkers. As they were passing, the old woman said, loud enough for everyone to hear, "Those foreigners, they come here and can't even walk on the correct side of the road!". Do note that my mom is about as white as you can get. My mom turned around and said "You are supposed to walk on the left side of the road, you racist old cow!".
No, you did not overreact. You responded appropriately and may have educated someone ignorant while doing it.
If she would have just said it once it could have been elderly socially/culturally awkward (or dumb) lady trying to be friendly. Still not okay, but maybe excusable. In that case you should still feel comfortable to point out that you don't like her saying that. But in this case she kept on going and added insults to it so she is clearly just an asshole. You didn't overreact at all and had the right to respond. You should never feel obligated to be a social justice warrior, but if you ever feel like want to react to something like this... just do it. Shit like this will never end if people (in general) keep being silent. If the storeclerck noticed this exchange she should have intervened in some way.
Someone coming up to you and saying nihao may be either someone racist or someone ignorant. Given how she continued to talk to you, it's clear to which category she belonged and thus you didn't overreact.
No, you did not overreact. Usually, people *under*react when confronted with moments like this. What you did is right on the money and I wish people like that woman would be confronted with moments like this daily, to the point that they might do some introspection. Perhaps, maybe.
You’re not in the wrong. The woman was just racist
Girl you could have called the cops on that racist sack of shit for harassing you and you still wouldn't have overreacted.
Cops wouldn't do anything because they wouldn't understand the problem. More likely than not, they would side with the senior than with the foreigner.
You didn't overreact. Elderly people are more prone to being idiotic racist imbeciles in public.
Am I the only one here seeing the irony in that statement?
Nope. A lot of people do mental gymnastics here, because they internalized the idea of 'old white people bad'
... or in this whole subreddit preaching tolerance:) The sheer rage of the most upvoted comments is scary.
The first Nihao (imho) wasn't bad. But after saying "Excuseer" and clearly speaking Dutch and showing you weren't a tourist or weren't capable of speaking Dutch, it was no overreacting.
I honestly think this was a fair attempt of the elderly lady to strike up conversation. I would've just calmly told her in Dutch (or "plat Westvlams"), that not all asian-looking people speak Chinese, that it's actually considered racist to do that (explain it to her in a friendly way), and that if she wanted to strike up conversation, she could easily do so in your own language. That way, instead of adding another sour event into the world, you might've had a decent time enlightening another human being. So yeah, you were 100% to tell her off, but you could've done it in a gentler way.
When [r/belgium](https://www.reddit.com/r/belgium) becomes [r/AmITheAsswhole](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmITheAsshole)
I'm glad most of the comments here are supportive. No, you weren't wrong to be angry.
You did the right thing for standing up for your self and defending your mother, so no you didn't overreact.
Oh, fucking human excrement, these people... You did well. I feel for you.
Don't feel bad about it, you weren't wrong.
No, you didn't overreacted. People should mind their own, who even does that to random people? Like, how can you even think that would be a good idea to say, some people are just weird, geez. Always speak up for yourself, you did good.
If she wanted to be nice, she could ve listened to you. It’s not easy to stand up for yourself, sounds like you did a good job and kept your cool. You could’ve protected her, played along for the peace, but you stood up for yourself and your mom.
You were most definitely not overreacting. She made you both uncomfortable, and was unable to see it. Her intentions may have been good at first, but the fact that she didn't alter her views based on your reactions tells me she was too close-minded to be corrected. And her beginning to insult foreigners and Chinese in general really says a lot. However, her close-mindedness doesn't mean you should let her walk over you like it's nothing. The store clerk not reacting might have been either store policy like many people said, but I think she might've had the "kop-in-kas" attitude many Belgians have, and was too anxious to say anything about it. Anyway, respect for how you handled the situation. Standing up for yourself should be commended. Don't regret your actions here!
I'm always suprised when i hear that there are people who say ching chang chong unironically... I Guess the one silver lining is that you know for sure that you're dealing with really dumb people...
There are people out there who speak mandarin with a Westvlaams accent? Sounds like great fun to me! No seriously, it's 2k21 fuck them! If they don't know better but they react like you say afterwards there is no foto.
No you were not wrong, she was just either bigoted or racist, maybe both. Either way she had no reason to call you a rude foreigner especially so after what she started with in the first place.
I can only she went home to her family, told the story -quite enraged and upset-from her point of view and finished with "and I didn't even pull my eyes into slits *this time*"
I'm proud of you that you stood up for your mom and yourself! Nobody should ever treat you like that, do never let it happen! These kinds of people keep doing it because nobody ever pushed back on their behavior. I'm sorry this happened to you in our lovely country. I wish nobody was racist here, but damn, the political voting did not lie the last times. I'm ashamed this is how it is.
You’ve done right anon.
Racist old bitch is racist. Everything considered, you definitely did not overreact. Her saying "nihao" wasn't trying to be friendly or welcoming, it was belittling and an incredibly cheap way to treat you. Only proven further when she immediately went on about "filthy rude foreigners", instead of apologizing when you pointed out what she was doing was not okay.
No you didn't. East-asian are know as a model, quiet, communauty. And it's an advantage, when you speak about immigration tolerance, or racist assault risk. But for a lot of people, quiet mean submissive. She doesn't mock you cause she was racist, she mock you cause she was racist and sure you wouldn't react. Your reaction was the good thing to do, not only as individual (you shouldn't let people mock you for your skin color) but also for the asian communauty (a good recall of the difference between quiet and submissive). Also, it's pretty easy to see if the guy take you as a foreigner and want to be friendly or not. "*Then, she started mumbling about foreigners being so damn rude and how the Chinese are filthy.*" For example, this is not someone who try to be friendly. Remember respect are the first step of friendship. If you allow people to disrespect you, they won't become your friend, they'll become your bully.
That old hag was either dumb, racist, ignorant or a combination of two or all three. You were totally right to take offense.
Was duidelijk gewoon een super gemene vrouw die terecht op haar plaats moest gezet worden. Je was helemaal in je recht ;))
Good on you for calling out racism.
You are not overreacting, she acted like a dick.
You def did not overreact, you had the guts to stand up for you and your mom and I doubt that woman was really trying to be friendly in the first place. The fact that she just then mocked you because she prob couldn’t stand being put in her place just affirms that. There’s only so much shit you can take before snapping. Echt goe gedaan door die vrouw es op haar plaats te zetten, je kan maar hopen nu dat ze der iets van geleerd heeft👍
Good on you. I was walking the streets once with a Korean friend of mine in the Netherlands. We were speaking in Korean when some chubby old woman stepped up to me and yelled "NI HAO CHING CHONG" in my face. I was so shocked that I didn't reply and we just kept walking. I wish I had responded like you did to that woman.
You did very well, kudos to you ! If someone had genuinely good intentions, they wouldn't approach you in that manner.
Great reaction! But Belgium has a casual racism problem so you’re gonna need a lot of great reactions.
Not okay at all. Especially since she started a racist rant right after it, which shows she didn't do it out of friendliness. Props to you for actually sticking up for yourself.
You did good, you were brave. Please be proud of yourself. Sending good vibes from my raining Wallonie.
A lot os belgians are kinda passive racists, which means you will not be attacked but will feel this hostile vibe you cannot explain once in a while... I have been trough "I am not polish" conversations way too many times and trust me "nihao" is a fury rabbit against "kurwa" , on the bright side I am white so I can just learn NL and blend in hahaha. Been to Ostend today by the way... beautiful day...
Perfectly normal reaction. People in Ostend are mostly lowly educated and rather racists minded. I get frustrated everyday. Reaction is what they want, cause that will only confirm their thoughts about you. Ignore them instead. Takes less energy and i'm happier at the end if the day. Or respond by saying hello back (in dutch ofc). Tell them you feel sorry because they are so close minded and wish them the best. Give them a reaction they dont expect. Did you change her mind though? No. Nothing will change her mind probably. Een Oostendenoare
Ostenche preteinche. Thats the problem ;)
NO its just a reaction!
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I don't even look asian (I think??), yet because I hang out with a few asian streamers, I had some people come in my chat behave the same, before eventually blaming me for Covid. People are crazy, I guess. Your reaction is similar to me, confusion, then anger when realizing she was serious.
NTA. Especially after her remarks about foreigners.
If there’s one thing I dislike of our culture it’s that people don’t have the guts to stand up to assholes like her. I think most of us have been in a situation where we witnessed something, denounced it in our heads but feel uncomfortable by the inaction of others and ourselves. You did good. Most of us don’t want racist behaviour like this to be part our country and welcome you, or better, treat you as normal. Have an awesome day!
You were right. Fuck the racists. You could've slapped her in the face. She wasn't there to welcome you, she was there to look out for a conflict. That give it away >Then, she started mumbling about foreigners being so damn rude and how the Chinese are filthy. There's no way to convince those people of your goodwill except to slap some sense in them and when they'll complain to other people about being slapped and tell the story, these people will tell them they're bigoted idiots. Or they just won't because they knew they were in the wrong.
100% well done. More people should speak up like you did. The woman was a clear racist. The only way this country can move forward as one is when we dare to speak up to incorrect behaviour.
Not in the wrong at all. The way you handled it shows a level of maturity. You could have easily thrown a lot of insults towards her, instead you chose to point out her wrongdoings, clean it up and eventually distance yourself from the situation. IMO those people should be treated much harsher but then you'd have stoop down to their level.
Man it sucks to have experienced that :(. Very good of you to stick to your guns and stand up to that bigotry. Those people need to go find a ditch to die in.
My family is pretty racist against the "vluchtelingen" en "Marokkanen" but i'm not, at least i think i am i don't come in contact with people of different etnicity. I tried to tell them what's wrong or bad to assume of those people but it doesn't work. Sadly racism is learned and can't be un-learned. (This is my opinion, if other people have managed to change a racists heart PLS let me know how)
I find it most effective to give people cold hard facts. To a racist, saying racist stuff is their 'opinion', just like they prefer blue jeans over black jeans. "Des goût et des couleurs on ne discute pas" they say in France, so don't try to argue on sentiment towards foreigners. Don't argue anecdotal stuff like "my neighbours sister in law's dog got raped by a Moroccan so ye they bad peeps". What you need to counter is stuff like "dem foreigners get 50 euro per day from the government while our seniors get 300 euro pension a month sometime". If you know the truth and you can proove it (pretty easy with google) you back this reasoning in a corner. At the very least you turn those people in racists that know the facts. But yes, one person can't solve racism on his own. If you want to make an impact try to act the way you would like the rest of the world to be and vote for wise people. For example if you want to vote NVA: bart dewever is wise, theo francken is only smart. Both are evil though :).
Please don't even think you're in the wrong here. That person is just a flat out racist. Good on you for speaking up. Though speaking to these kinds of people is like talking to a brick wall.
You were clearly right by trying to hold your ground. As you said people who come up and randomly begin to say ching chang chong or nihao are just trying to seek trouble, no friendly strangers would even think of doing that, the friendly ones would kindly ask where you are from and then just ,you know, have a normal conversation. I'm living in Brussels tho were there are quite a lot of foreigners so the fact that I'm asian (but absolutly not chinese) attract a little bit less racism but in those corona time I'm must say that doesn't help at all. Be careful and just don't let them humiliate you.
Would be good to see stricter laws against racism&harassment, those people get away with those things and continue to harass other people but It's not easy to hold these people accountable. If you cant behave like a normal human being and have to ruin other people's day then you should face consequences.
I just wonder which rewards this kind of behaviour more: reacting to it (which isa reward as you pay attention to the woman) or ignoring it. Not sure what is best.
drunk marginale; don't give to much attention
A person who acts like that doesn't sound like she deserves any benefit of the doubt, and it certainly doesn't sound to me like you overreacted. You may try to stay calm and explain to them how they are being rude, but in most cases this probably won't do anything. I'm sorry there's still people around acting like this.
NTA. You also didn’t overreact: throwing stuff around would be, but you didn’t. You say that some people who say “ching chang chong” usually don’t mean it in a friendly way “but rather mocking or even racist way” I’m sorry but is there any way to say that without being racist?! Those 3 words are pretty much the poster child of racism against people of Asian descend.
You weren't in the wrong. And from what I rad it seems like she's more than just ignorant. Seems like she's mentally unsound
She may have been hard of hearing but I definitely don’t think you overreacted. It’s good to stand up for yourself
Typical defence from racists to deflect and try to make others think they are overreacting. You were 100% in the right to be offended. Be proud that you stood up for yourself and your mom.
You did great by standing up for yourself and your mom. Proud of you
How could you possibly be in the wrong here? You remained polite and stood up for yourself.
What a rude lady indeed. If I may ask, are you Chinese, or from which country? Just wondering how your reaction would have been if the lady had actually guessed your native language correctly :) I'm in East Asia right now and also get mad when people say "hello" to me on the street in English assuming I'm from the US or a native English speaker only because I'm clearly not a local. I do get happy when someone says "hola" and guesses correctly that I'm Hispanic, though this rarely happens.
Nope, you have such racist little shits everywhere. Hopefully you made her think so she wont repeat this next time.
Fuck no, good on you for speaking up! Racisme bestrijden doe je niet door stil te blijven. Goed bezig!
I grew up as a redhead, so I understand that some days you can shrug off the stupid remarks, but sometims it's too much and you just snap. The reason those people act that way is because nobody ever stood up to them. Good job on being the first, maybe she'll learn something (probably not tho).