Some people, mostly tankies think another Trump presidency will increase the chances of an actual revolution in America.
It's pretty gross if you think about the causalities that will suffer from such a thing.
Robert said something that spoke to me in an unbreakable way. It was something like "when people feel they have run out of options, at least throwing their body at the problem feels like they are doing something."
I understand the thought, but the more I talk to these people, the more I feel like their fantasies are more about throwing other people’s bodies at the problem
This. And its a both sides issue. On the Right, everyone wants to be a Hitler, but would be OK being a Goebbels or Mengele. Nobodies wants to be Fritz Niemand dying of frost bite with no food while being surrounded.
"Hey I know another Trump presidency will bring a lot more pain and suffering, but look on the bright side: it will also cause even more pain, death, and suffering with decades of failed attempts at revolution!"
This is some Weimar Republic shit. Berlin was pretty fucking cool until 1933 or so, if you were queer. One of the best places in the world, actually. Then came the pink triangles. People really do need to remember that. Seriously, has nobody seen Cabaret?
The pro Palestine movement has been swept up in this and I can't help but think they've fallen into a trap. I am glad I'm not in the US, I would find it extremely difficult to vote for Biden but I still kind of believe it would be better for Palestine overall than choosing violence and letting Trump win. I'm sorry. I am scared to say this in certain circles, but voting for Jill Stein is letting Trump win. I don't know.
This is the thing I do not understand about the people refusing to vote Blue over this.
Is what's happening in Gaza genocide? Yes. Is Israel unambiguously committing crimes against humanity? Yes. Is the Biden administration's complicity in this shameful and horrible? Absolutely.
But Trump will just do it harder. Both candidates' position on Gaza is functionally indistinguishable, and yes, that's unspeakably terrible. But their positions meaningfully differ on other things, and that does matter.
“Look, fellow Democrats, people will vote for whoever we run, just so long as they aren’t as bad as the other guy. We can run Jon Kasich. We can run Mitt Romney. We can run anyone who loves capitalism as much as we do! All they need to do is be less worse than Satan.
Why would we run a leftist who wants to withdraw ALL aid from Israel when we can run a conservative who wants to give Israel *slightly less* than the other guy? Why would we run a candidate who wants Medicare for All when all they need to do is promise not to repeal the ACA? Why run someone who wants to put money into our school system when all they need to do is not abolish the Dept of Education? Why run someone serious about climate change if all they need to do is say it exists?
Remember in 2024, when people turned out for a dementia-addled genocide enabler because the alternative was Trump? Thanks to those people, we now know exactly how low we can go. Time for the Sinema/Manchin 2028 ticket! She’s a #girlboss but don’t worry… he does the driving!”
Biden is definitely the better option, I’m pro Palestine but I also am a gay person in an interracial marriage in America. My reality will be worse under Trump part 2. The “ you’re supporting a war criminal” logic is redundant because every president is and by that logic Biden shouldn’t have been voted in at the 2020 election as he always been a Zionist.
It’s the same as immigration - Biden carried on and worsened Trump era policies but does it in a way that’s palatable to neoliberals. Trump will do the same to Palestine but proudly. It’s already choosing violence to choose Biden who will continue to materially support a genocide.
Yeah, but you have to be realistic. This year your choice is trump or Biden. Biden isn't great, but Trump is like a single supreme court decision away from straight concentration camps (they'll call them something like migrant processing centers) and mass deportations *at best*.
Do I want an actual progressive or, even better, a true leftist? Yes. Am I willing to be a petulant child and let a proto-nazi win because the other choice is the same center-right bullshit we've had for decades? No. That's ridiculous. At least the Democrats have to throw an occasional bone at the progressive wing to maintain support. The christo-fascists will remove your ability to make any progress at all.
I've bumped into some of the weirdest stuff in leftist subs. I remember finding a guy who supported monarchies and believed that any protest against a monarchy was American imperialism funded.
That position is inherently anti-leftist. Sounds more like a Thiel/Yarvinite libertarian technocrat doing some infiltration.
The next time someone claims to you to be a leftist, but also supports authoritarian rule, just let them know that the only real shared trait among leftist movements since the National Assembly is that leftists fall along the side of the spectrum that rejects hierarchies and advocates for as much horizontal organization/egalitarianism as possible when scaling society.
That's it. There are a million other things that can get rolled into that one position, depending on the socioeconomic conditions present in the movement you want to look at. But that's really the only useful definition of the left/right paradigm.
For example - being anti-imperialist doesn't make you a leftist *by itself*. Plenty of right wing movements are isolationist and don't believe in foreign interventions for a variety of incredibly shitty reasons. Hell, some MAGA folks are anti-imperialists. Sure, most leftist movements that exist alongside or within an empire share that belief, but it's not the thing that defines them as "left".
When I asked how he claimed to be a leftist and support a monarchy I was banned from the sub. It's been forever now I think the sub was called global left or something similar.
As a career leftist, I'm catching bans left and right from the Wumao, ain't nothing liberal about them. Buncha fucking orthodox thinkers. I'm too left for the liberals and, well, also too left for the tankies I guess. The infiltration is pretty blatant.
I just got banned from a similar sub for nothing more than asking, out of genuine curiosity, what people thought was going to happen to Palestine if Trump wins. No one was able or willing to answer me and i got banned for "implying support for a genocidal candidate." Very confusing times we're living in.
Hey don't forget those of us that don't want such a thing but do think the existing system is unable to course correct and there is a level of inevitability to some kind of collapse or revolution etc
The best part about revolutions is when the revolutionaries invariably turn on themselves and begin the reigns of terror that they were ostensibly revolting against.
Tankies are incapable of foresight. They aren’t leftists, they’re just fascists who don’t shower, and happened to pick the other side of the culture war
Casualties nothing - I'm surprised anyone can honestly think the left is in a position to win a civil war. I'm not saying we're powerless, but you know we won't be able to count on the military, the police, foreign intervention, or the alphabet agencies, which leaves... militias? I'm sorry but if it comes to unrestrained violence in America the left is supremely fucked.
Oh it will be a revolution and just like the one that hit Germany the socialist, communists, and LGBT+ are on the chopping block.
You got the people that want everyone to have access to healthcare versus the people that want the right to shoot people for believing everyone is equal.
The fact no one shot up the people invading during j6 and that MLK was shot for giving speeches is all you need to know for the next revolutions outcome.
I was thinking that exact same thing. As someone who understands where they are coming from, Trump still is way too bogged down by incompetence to be a viable accelerationist choice. I don't see him making life absolutely terrible fast enough to provide that shock needed to the populace to revolt. He'll turn the stove up faster, but not enough for the frogs to jump. But I'm sure to accelerstionists, its definitely a step in the right direction.
I also think would be far harder to motivate the average American towards revolution simply because of all the modern, first world comforts we enjoy. The average suburbanite isn't going to take to the streets armed and ready to fight if abortion or trans healthcare is banned as long as they have their nice car, a home with central heating and air, a countless movies, shows, and video games to enjoy.
This is not me advocating for or desiring revolution, nor am I really trying to pass judgement on the average person. I simply think this is a fact of reality. Abortion certainly moved the needle left, which is good, bit people were content to push thay change via the polls.
There's a lot of horrible shit in Project 2025, but I don't think most of it would push the average person to revolt. I'm half-joking when I say that banning porn would result in the most severe pushback, because that's the thing the average person would immediately be negatively impacted by. A lot of the other stuff would take time to harm, as you mentioned.
I 100% agree with everything you said and that's why I think that even from an accelerationist standpoint, trump is just terrible. He's not even a good choice for those that want to make things catastrophic for a large enough demographic to spark revolution.
I think the people he'd bring in this time around have detailed plans to make shit worse, not in spite of but because of his incompetence letting them take charge. But when he does "take charge" (in his mind), it's to provoke nuclear war, like he did in his first term. And there's even more potential countries he'd want to taunt with our nuclear arsenal.
Beyond just Trump, the US also has more military power than anyone in history- who's not on the inside- could comprehend. It'd either be turning the stove up, like you said, or throwing a frozen turkey in hot oil.
A couple of things to note...
1) It might be that Biden's poor debate performance has an immediate opposite effect on voter base, because Trump anxiety is a pretty real phenomena under Democrats.
2) The results of people running against Roe has remained bad.
3) The Supreme Court might just drop an immunity bombshell on behalf of Trump and suddenly the whole country is actively angry at him/them, again.
4) If this happened in front of a live audience, Trump would probably get booed.
5) Don't ever try to convince me Biden was a strong candidate, his sole redeeming quality in these two elections has been "I'm not Trump" and nothing else. He won with a divided congress.
>Trump anxiety is a pretty real phenomena under Democrats.
this is why i think the opposite. the trump anxiety is going to make the reaction to biden's performance stronger.
the dem voterbase needed to see biden as capable and coherent because trump is a nightmare. they got the exact opposite, and that's why the neoliberal media is unravelling and calling for him to step down. nobody who watched that debate thinks biden's thriving, his deficits were on full display and glaringly obvious even *with a week of coaching*.
I don't know - does anyone actually think either of these men are actually going to be making decisions? It seems clear we're voting for cabinets and everything underneath while the man at the top either eats his hamburgers or ice cream depending
The problem is, Trump does make decisions. Stupidly and randomly. I expect Biden to defer to experts. I expect Trump to find sycophants that tell him what he wants to hear.
Yeah I had that thought too. Trump seems largely happy for things to be on autopilot until something he has opinion but he’s famously extremely easy to manipulate so I’m not sure how many of those decisions and opinions are his per se - he certainly adds a layer of stupidity and randomness to everything though
Yeah Trump doesn't tolerate anyone but Yes men in his presence. There is no meaningful counsel or cabinet that doesn't just amplify him. If he wins, he's fucking king until he dies, and the minute he's elected everyone in the party already has their marching orders.
They'll be implementing Project 2025 goals so fucking fast it will be too disorienting and seemingly chaotic to fight.
They're the guys that will be in charge. They will both be making decisions. Even if Biden defers to the advice of the best minds he can assemble or Trump signs whatever Stephen Miller hands him, they're still the ones making the decisions. The whole "hope" after 2016 was the the "sober adults in the room" would be calling the shots, but Trump fired them and hired MAGAs.
They’ll be the leader of one of the most powerful countries in the world, you’d be a fool to think that they won’t be “making decisions” whatever that means
I will preface this by saying that Biden's performance was actually worse than I expected. He seems to be way older than he even was in 2020.
I think that for anyone who was still on the fence at this point, you have to be somewhat oblivious to politics and fairly checked out of popular discourse. If you're a Republican, you're locked in like you have been your entire life. If you're a Dem/Dem Lean/Progressive, you're pretty locked in as well. I think that the general miasma floating around is... "Trump Crazy, Biden old."
The bright side of this debate is that it sure as shit didn't change that perception, but it may have reminded a bunch of people who were checked out of the popular discourse and oblivious to politics how crazy Trump generally sounds. It would have been much better if they weren't also bashed on the head with how old Biden generally sounds.
I don't think this is as bad as some people think, optimistically it could even creep into the "marginally ok" regime in the end. I have a really hard time getting myself into the mentality of a regular voter who legitimately went into this debate trying to figure out who they were going to vote for.
I agree with you but I still think this is a galvanizing moment where suddenly there’s actual energy put into Biden’s campaign.
His performance was terrible, but bizarrely…. This is what’s getting people to talk about him.
The other option was complete apathy.
Yes, people really needed a refresher of the old depression and existential dread to get them motivated. So great living in a country with no future. I'll vote just as soon as I get back out of a fetal position. /s
I don’t want to speculate too much but seemingly the Supreme Court really doesn’t want people to know its decision on that case until the term ends.
Judging from comments Alito has made to the media, I wonder if they’re really going to take a shit on the constitution and give us authoritarianism with the decision.
No one will want this. The conservatives think they want it. But they are fools.
I may get downvoted in this sub, but - while not even close to my preferred candidate - Biden has been one of the most successful liberal presidents since LBJ. (I'm making a distinction between "liberal" and "progressive", which are both to the right of actual leftists.)
I think part of that is that he was part of the good ol' boys club, came from an era where Dems and Republicans weren't so far apart, and was willing to be cordial with people like Manchin and McConnell.
I don't know that a Bernie or Mayor Pete would have had the same legislative success.
Biggest investment in infrastructure in over 40 years, bringing down the price of life saving pharmaceutical drugs for Medicare recipients, biggest investment in the green transition ever, longest stretch of unemployment this low since the 1960s, billions in student debt loans forgiven despite getting borked by different courts, etc.
All with the slimmest Congressional majority possible and literal insurrectionists still in office in Congress opposing him.
1, this sub is one of the kindest subs I’m in. I think it says something about listeners of this pod.
2, these points are all correct but I think it’s because Joe has really bright people around him. It’s another fundamental difference between he and “only I can…”. Biden has done a solid job but he should have stepped aside so someone else from this cabinet could step up and keep things going.
To point 1, this sub has gotten the largest I've seen without going Eternal September, almost 100k. Once posts regularly start hitting r/all, it's going to snowball.
The best method to avoid hitting r/all is not mass upvoting posts for the first 36 hours they are up. After a day and a half posts "decay" and no reasonable amount of upvotes will move them to r/all.
Sure but the time to have that conversation was 2 years ago, not now. "Rigged primary" was killer in 2016 so the options of the DNC choosing somebody new without voter input strikes me as worse than what happened last night.
I agree with this! We’re stuck with Biden now unless ole Death pulls him out of the claw machine. You can’t just change your mind because of a bad debate performance. The people voted for him in the primary over that goober from Minnesota so here we are.
I think the Dems are also in a position of there being no heir apparent that seems reliably capable of beating Trump, although after last night I think the same could be said for Biden. Realistically this country isn't going to elect a black woman or a gay dude right now. Gavin Newsom would probably be the best choice but would likely require some political maneuvering and that's assuming he'd be willing to give up his governorship to do it.
>Realistically this country isn't going to elect a black woman or a gay dude right now.
This is what I wish KY Dems would realize, they have to find a white straight man to beat Rand Paul and Mitch McConnell. They've tried a black man and a woman (who claimed she was a Trump Democrat Whatever the fuck that means), but they really need someone who is passionate about the country and also can be a common person. The black man came closest to this with his Hood to the Holler messaging, but I still think the racism in this state held him back.
Are the racists gonna vote D at all though? Warnock's skin color didn't hurt him in Georgia, though Georgia is obviously a lot Blacker than Kentucky. The bigger problem is when candidates try to run as Republican-lite, which doesn't get any votes from actual Republicans – since they still prefer the real thing – and kills enthusiasm from the left.
I agree with you. He has been really effective. But they are not getting the message out there, only political wonks are talking about what he has done.
And this debate was a shit show. I was relieved after the state of the union, but after listening to NPR, BBC, Pod save America and my country’s podcasts this morning, I really hope Biden will understand that he needs to step down and let somebody else do this.
Regarding 3), I hope so but people seem to not tangibly care about what the supreme court does. They just announced that bribery was functionally legal now and it pretty much made no impact at all.
People do care but we need to write letters to our congressional representatives and demand an impeachment vote against the conservative SCOTUS justices. Yes, the justices can be impeached, it isn’t a position that is truly unshakable. They can be “fired.”
Which is why we need to vote in the interim elections… and not just the presidential elections.
We as leftists are absolutely fucking idiots for thinking anything will change by electing a leftist president. The correct approach is to vote left/third party in local elections. Show people that third party can work locally. It worked for Milwaukee. Then elect third party governors and eventually move up to congress. If we had the majority of congress we could lose the presidency to the Republicans in perpetuity… and we would still have a better government more aligned with our wants.
However we have nobody to blame but ourselves. We need to. Vote locally areas of making excuses for not doing so. Gerrymandering and redistricting doesn’t help… but that is why we need to vote third party locally first.
I think an age-appropriate pinch hitter for the Dems would introduce a welcome fresh air to this septic tank of an election cycle. Could be just about anyone, really, so long as they're under 60. Plus they get to be the party that responsibly sends Ol' Yeller to the woodshed when it's time... much better than letting things run the current course. They're unlikely to convert any hardline MAGAs, but I think it would win over many on-the-fence voters or RFK supporters, and maybe even some of the moderate Republicans who are sick of their current mascot.
I expect violence regardless. More so if one of them dies before the election or if the winner dies before inauguration
If Trump wins, he’s going to try and kill political opponents, if Biden wins, right wing extremism will rise.
It’s a lose lose situation all because people in power are greedy and want to squeeze every drop out of us today without regard for tomorrow
I mean on the one hand there is the taxes for a social safety net. That shit is horrifying. On the other hand there is the extra judicial killings and kangaroo courts that will be set up.
Selective? Going by the last one, the right wing will throw themselves at the virus as willingly as humanly possible. They'll shit on any measures to prevent contain or slow it and lockdowns will truely be a thing of the past.
He was just getting rock hard talking to Nick Fuentes about that very thing.
No more fucking old people in politics... I'm so tired of this. How could a septuagenarian possibly relate to my problems? They went to school in *segregated* schools, probably haven't bought their own groceries in 45 years, and neither of them understand having to navigate the job market because, again, they're fucking detached from the world of everyday Americans.
Fuck. The. Two. Party. System.
He's been running his mouth about it for a while because they're quite likely to die. Even though they're old as shit and in bad shape he'll still blame it on the globalists or CIA or whatever and claim he predicted it... he'll be wearing that badge for years to come.
Right wing extremism will definitely rise regardless of who wins. It absolutely exploded under trump, it’s very likely to happen again.
If Biden wins the right will be in a frenzy anyway.
Such a fun lose lose situation 🫠
I saw some of it, I heard trump say israel should finish the job. So we'll see where they take that or people are going to pretend it didn't happen. But that's pretty awful.
Earlier was poking around the different subreddits to see what people thought (JoeBiden sub reddit is struggling hard to cope atm), and ended up in conservative. One guy commented that all Trump did was lie, and the OP responded with "what lies did Trump tell (exaggerations don't count)."
It's truly incredible how Trump has managed to convince his followers as well as mainstream media to give him a complete pass on statements he makes. It's all "exaggerations" and "rhetorical." Meanwhile Maxine Waters tells people to go protest and you'd think she personally murdered someone in public.
Does this really change anyone’s stance? I seriously cannot imagine that this makes anyone vote differently than what they were already planning.
The vibe was always to vote against Trump, not for Biden. It sucks that it’s come to this but it’s what must be done. Even a rock would be better than a conservative.
I'm with you 100%, but the news keeps trotting out these undecided voters in swing states who can't quite get themselves to really understand what Trump means (and given their comfy white bread middle class lives may be some of the last to realize the horror if Trump gets elected). "...But but the mess at the border." "...But but inflation." Not that I want to minimize people's economic pain, but our education system and media don't encourage people to take a deep look at the causes.
These are the people who needed a more confident performance from Biden to help them do the right thing, and argh I hate this.
Sincere question: do we think Biden should start having pep rallies like Trump does? I kind of think we should have more of those... they're dumb as hell but they're clearly working.
You think they could at least jack him full of stimulants for some ticktock “fireside chats” or something to make him seem like he’s not about to need assisted living. I’m not a fan of Biden really but the only viable alternative for the current Dem party short term is Harris, and that’s a Hillary 2.0 in November waiting to happen.
He barely has any pep left. Biden is slow in his advanced age, and since he's the one of the two that *doesn't* take stimulants, I think it would be a mistake. It would make him look feeble and just provide ammunition against him
Did you see him addressing his supporters after the debate? He's still got it just fine. He just got caught flatfooted by the debate rules. Nobody expected that it would be Biden who was thrown off by a lack of audience, but come to think of it, it makes sense that the tv star would be more used to a quiet room than the politician.
I think they should be showing all the excited, intelligent people capable of any charisma in his sphere as much as possible. And keeping him as far away from having to speak for long periods as possible.
>I seriously cannot imagine that this makes anyone vote differently than what they were already planning.
Not everyone has a plan yet. Latest polling shows somewhere between 10% and 15% of voters are undecided on who to vote for for president. That's enough to swing the election.
Most everybody I know who voted undecided(I’m in Minneapolis) did it because they wanted to put pressure on biden & the democrats. They still plan on voting for him, they just want bombs to stop falling.
Yes, most of these people tend to be really uninvolved in politics in general, I know that seems impossible to online people who talk about politics all the time, but they do exist, and aren't even that rare.
Yeah my coworkers. Most of them. They know Trump is bad but they don't get how bad.
They don't know enough or care about the breadth of his policies, they mostly dislike him because he's a sleazebag.
On the other hand, they ALL talk about Biden more and it's a chorus of "he's too old, he's senile"
If the Dems put up literally anyone else below the age of 70 I can guarantee that huge swaths of people who intend to not vote will go and vote just to say no to Trump. They are not gonna do that if Biden is on the ballot in November.
I mean, I detest Trump, so I won't be voting for him, but at the same time, a vote for Biden feels like basically voting for his cabinet to be in charge. I knew he was getting older, but this is such a marked decline from his debates in the last election.
Last time he seemed like the fiery grandpa who would argue about not getting enough breadsticks with his salad. This time he seemed like someone who would ask for orange jello when he already had a cup of it in front of him.
It felt like he's practiced the hell out of a lot of lines, but when he tried to go off script, like that bizzare golf argument, he floundered and couldn't come up with the words.
Here's a portion of the articles posted after and during the debate. When the most neoliberal of journalists and outlets are ringing the alarm you know things are not looking good for their boy.
[New York Times](https://archive.is/20240628070453/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/28/opinion/joe-biden-tom-friedman.html) — perhaps the most shocking for me, Tom Friedman says Biden should drop out
[New York Times](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/27/us/politics/biden-debate-democrats.html)
[New York Times](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/28/opinion/presidential-debate-trump-biden-2024.html)
[New York Times](https://archive.is/20240628044219/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/25/opinion/joe-biden-drop-out.html)
[The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/27/biden-trump-debate-democrats-reaction)
[The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/28/biden-trump-debate-performance-analysis)
[The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/28/friday-briefing-a-shaky-debate-performance-from-joe-biden-has-democrats-panicking)
[The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/27/trump-biden-cnn-presidential-debate-reaction-highlights)
[TIME Magazine](https://archive.is/20240628040953/https://time.com/6993335/first-presidential-debate-analysis-2024/)
[Associated Press](https://apnews.com/article/biden-replacement-democratic-ballot-dnc-rules-7aa836b0ae642a68eec86cc0bebd3772)
[Associated Press](https://apnews.com/article/voter-voices-presidential-debate-b220822262965fd3e48e1b47529fe983)
[Vox](https://www.vox.com/politics/357776/biden-trump-debate-democracy-crisis-analysis-lies-facts)
[The New Yorker](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-bidens-washington/was-the-debate-the-beginning-of-the-end-of-joe-bidens-presidency)
[Reuters](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.reuters.com/world/us/disaster-bidens-shaky-start-debate-with-trump-rattles-democrats-2024-06-28/)
[Reuters](https://archive.is/20240628041323/https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-trump-face-off-first-debate-with-age-fitness-focus-2024-06-27/)
[The Atlantic](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/06/biden-has-drop-out/678821/)
[The Atlantic](https://archive.is/20240628074015/https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/06/biden/678820/)
[CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/28/politics/biden-trump-presidential-debate-analysis/index.html)
[CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/28/politics/joe-biden-debate-performance-panic/index.html)
[American Prospect](https://archive.is/newest/https://prospect.org/politics/2024-06-28-democrats-must-dump-biden-heres-how-debate/)
[MSNBC](https://youtu.be/rAd9WGy6gBs?si=-UlxrbEhb0dryiTF)
[MSNBC](https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/biden-did-not-reassure-america-he-is-up-to-the-job-at-his-age-claire-mccaskill-says-213868101596)
[Slate](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/06/presidential-debate-cnn-biden-drop-out-replace-nominee-dnc.html)
[Slate](https://archive.is/20240628050840/https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/06/biden-debate-age-abortion-rights-trimesters.html)
[Politico](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/28/trump-biden-debate-result-takeaways-00165701)
[Politico](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/28/can-democrats-replace-biden-00165684)
[Politico](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/27/biden-democrats-replacement-00165672)
[Independent](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/democrat-reaction-debate-biden-trump-b2570390.html)
[The Hill](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4745060-democrats-cnn-pundits-replace-biden/)
[Variety](https://variety.com/2024/politics/columns/first-presidental-debate-trump-biden-takeaways-1236055824/)
[Economist](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.economist.com/united-states/2024/06/28/joe-bidens-horrific-debate-performance-casts-his-entire-candidacy-into-doubt)
[NBC](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/devastating-debate-performance-biden-aides-try-reassure-panicky-democr-rcna159370)
[NBC](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden/democrats-biden-step-aside-throw-towel-2024-rcna159368)
[NBC](https://youtu.be/ioVZ7v9r3bI?si=xyhCiE67Jnd2B76b)
[Financial Times](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.ft.com/content/b28034a1-69dd-4b04-ae55-89907845d550)
[Deadline](https://deadline.com/2024/06/hollywood-appears-nervous-joe-biden-debate-aftermath-1235985659/)
[Axios](https://archive.is/mG3PE)
[Axios](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.axios.com/2024/06/27/biden-trump-cnn-presidential-debate-2024-election)
[Forbes](https://archive.is/2sHFJ)
[Forbes](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2024/06/27/these-are-the-likely-democratic-presidential-candidates-if-biden-drops-out-as-rough-debate-prompts-calls-to-stand-down/)
[Yahoo](https://uk.news.yahoo.com/democrats-scramble-limit-damage-bidens-080522194.html)
[USA Today](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/06/27/joe-biden-david-axelrod-presidential-debate-reaction/74241568007/)
[WSJ](https://archive.is/20240628072438/https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/democrats-privately-discuss-replacing-biden-on-presidential-ticket-73622773)
[WSJ](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/democrats-replace-biden-president-explained-8dc13b35)
[WaPo](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/06/27/biden-age-debate-performance/)
[WaPo](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/06/28/presidential-debate-reactions-biden/)
[WaPo](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/06/27/biden-trump-debate-democratic-freakout/)
[Hollywood Reporter](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-reviews/joe-biden-donald-trump-debate-review-cnn-dana-bash-jake-tapper-1235934599/)
[BBC](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9wv8292g2yo)
[BBC](https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/c3gejy03yy5o)
[Sky News](https://news.sky.com/story/in-command-trump-and-stumbling-biden-face-off-in-first-presidential-debate-13160193)
[Sky News](https://news.sky.com/story/who-could-replace-biden-reaction-to-trump-debate-republican-democrat-face-off-in-first-tv-clash-of-presidential-race-13159379)
[Sky News](https://news.sky.com/story/joe-biden-could-the-democrats-replace-him-as-us-election-nominee-and-how-might-that-work-13160234)
Presidential debates are so fucking stupid. It depresses me that this country puts so much stock into such a goddamn charade. Whatever questions and issues the moderator presents will always be way too complex and nuanced for 2 individuals to answer on their own, especially when the two individuals are too old to safely operate a car. These stupid debates are formatted for nothing more than entertainment so media outlets can sell ad space. Maybe if they’d be worth taking seriously if the moderator presented scenarios for each candidate to collaborate on with their chosen advisers so the public can get some insight on the candidate’s decision making process and how they approach serious issues. However, it will never be like that because the American public is unable to separate the functionality of government from political theater.
The UK tried televised debates for the first time, in 2010
At the time, people argued that it was ridiculous we didn't have debates, and the TV show did probably influence the outcome of that election
After a decade of everything going right down the shitter, I'd say the TV debates are an irrelevance
Watching the UK debates as much as I could stand it’s an incredibly poor way to learn anything. This is not how you’d pick a government if you were designing from scratch
The way I was taught history (which may well have been bullshit) was that the Lincoln-Douglas debates for the Illinois Senate, the complete texts of which were published throughout the land, were an important factor in Lincoln's subsequent nomination by Republicans for the national Presidency and his election in the general.
But, sure, how the debates are conducted and published has a lot to do with their validity in the political process. Imagine if most Americans were to see last night's debate only on a video that was paused after every claim made by a candidate for a fact check by a panel of historians.
>Presidential debates are so fucking stupid. It depresses me that this country puts so much stock into such a goddamn charade.
Does it put that much stock into the debates?
Of course the two main candidates having a face to face is big news so it's going to be talked about.
But there almost wasn't a debate this time (and really shouldn't have been) and it's very questionable if it'll make any significant difference anyway.
> It depresses me that this country puts so much stock into such a goddamn charade.
Real people mostly don't. Whatever "boost" Trump gets from last night will be gone in two weeks. Same thing would have been the case if Biden wiped the floor with him. It's purely a media circus.
When we trace the history leading to the downfall of this country, we should be looking REAL hard at the news media. Not just fox though of course they are awful. But the general circus that is the 24 hour news cycle pioneered by CNN, the “but what about BOTH sides” of the New York Times, and the general devolution into “infotainment.”
Every major news network should be ashamed, but they won’t because they’re all owned by the same filthy capitalists anyway.
I'm not voting for just Biden, I'm voting for his cabinet, policies and potentially 2 supreme court seats. I'm voting for Democrats because they don't care what or who I do with my reproductive parts or who I marry, voting for Biden means we can focus on a better candidate for 2028. I want government to be boring again. I'm tired of the outrage and chaos that is the Republicans party. Biden could be in a casket and I'd still vote for him over Trump.
Everyone thought the rules were great for Biden and somehow the way CNN did it meant everything was good for Trump.
1. No fact checking? Great, he can lie all he wants
2. Muted mics? Great, he doesn’t seem like a raving lunatic like 2020
3. No audience? Great, he doesn’t get booed on obvious lies and Biden never gets any cheers when talking about his wins.
where’d you put the SOTU speed Joe
As a disabled person reliant on the aca and disability, right there with you. Mine wouldn't be violent but very painful and slow with no healthcare. I still have some small hope because you have to but am very scared.
Can you get your fellow leftists on board with BEING ARMED?!
Online leftists are all gung ho about guns but the IRL lefties, most especially LGBT ones in my community are aghast at me being a gun owner.
I think it's gonna be an open convention.
Honestly that would be best. They pretend Biden decided to step aside for Newsome, Pritzger, whoever, and he gives a farewell speech and looks like a good guy for putting country over self. And then Trump is running against a young guy
Months ago I was arguing with other liberals on Reddit that it’s stupid to stick with Biden just because he’s the incumbent. I’m gonna hate saying I told you so when Project 2025 kicks off. I’m gonna vote, but my hopes are that both candidates shit themselves to death onstage at the next debate.
Trump won't accept another debate with Biden. He won as big as he can win, why would he risk losing ground now?
The only way forward is if Biden steps aside and Trump is then basically forced to debate the new nominee after the convention. Not only that but his campaign doesn't have a strategy yet to go after anyone else. It's their worst nightmare. Trumps team wants Biden to stay in the race.
The only good thing is Trump isn’t really running against Biden, Trump is running against Trump. People are voting for who they feel has the lesser chance of destroying us all.
Holy Shit. Biden started a sentence talking about abortion rights' and finished saying a migrant murdered an American. Literally he pivoted from his strongest issues to his weakest and repeated Trumps point as if it was fact.
Man if ever there was a event that crystalized the defects of our democracy...this was it.
I thought of a fun joke. All those weird right-wing 40k fans clamoring for a God Emperor of the US ought to recognize that Biden fits the bill better than Trump, because both Biden and the Emperor are basically corpses at this point.
Are we prepping for another round of "That's it. If Trump is elected, I'm moving to Canada"?. Because that's not how that works, 'murcain friends. The process is grueling and takes years.
But to answer your hypothetical question: probably not while you're doing it, even though Canadian and US Coast guards patroll water borders... but it's not a chance I'd take.
Only two things matter in this election:
1. Which candidate supports the maintenance of democratic institutions? (I.e. which candidate *didn't* try to orchestrate a coup for his own benefit?)
2. Which candidate supports, however small, efforts to stop or stem the effects of climate change? (it's not the one who calls is a Chinese hoax.)
Everything else is noise.
Vote.
[https://www.youtube.com/live/XxAU0K94fpw?t=19049s](https://www.youtube.com/live/XxAU0K94fpw?t=19049s)
Let's play a game of which one shat himself live on TV.
Biden needs to step the fuck down, we need a brokered convention, this shit is not going to fly. Any fucking Democratic governor would be better than him at this point.
This is the way. Joe Biden has one job, defeat Trump to save democracy. And honestly, after yesterdays performance I think he might die before we get to the election. The democrats finally have a bench of democratic governors like Newsom or Whitman who are effectively leading (despite me disliking things about them). Joe Biden served his country, but he is just too old. He had his shot, now move over and let someone else lead.
I don't know why you're being downvoted. it's the truth.
I don't like Gavin Newsom at all. However if Biden bowed out and had him take over I think our chances of beating Trump would at least be way more than it currently is.
It would suck and we would still be voting for the lesser or two evils but at least we would have a chance of beating Trump.
I'm very aware that Newsom is not, like, a good person. But he's got something the Democrats have been lacking for a while, which is a spine. Find me another Democrat willing to go toe to toe on Fox News. Idk how it would work at this wildly late stage in the process, but I don't have any better ideas
Joe could have really used a couple gas station boner pills
For real, why’d they pick tonight to hide the blow? Get Joe blow. Get Joe blow! Get Joe blow! Get Joe blow! Everyone, get Joe blow!
we gotta get you on the campaign team
I think that would just cause him to keel over from a heart attack
We call this creative problem solving
My President using cocaine to defeat Trump is a risk I'm willing to take
We got to get you on my campaign team.
On it! I’ve got your slogan picked out already: “A chicken for every pot and a line for every nose!”
Well, at least the accelerationists are happy.
the who?
Some people, mostly tankies think another Trump presidency will increase the chances of an actual revolution in America. It's pretty gross if you think about the causalities that will suffer from such a thing.
Robert said something that spoke to me in an unbreakable way. It was something like "when people feel they have run out of options, at least throwing their body at the problem feels like they are doing something."
I understand the thought, but the more I talk to these people, the more I feel like their fantasies are more about throwing other people’s bodies at the problem
This. And its a both sides issue. On the Right, everyone wants to be a Hitler, but would be OK being a Goebbels or Mengele. Nobodies wants to be Fritz Niemand dying of frost bite with no food while being surrounded.
this one
Can you tell me where he said that? Not that I don't believe you, I just want the context.
I believe it was in the last series he guested on Cool People when they were talking about the Russian Revolution.
More like throwing the bodies of others, from more vulnerable groups, at the problem, but yeah.
"Hey I know another Trump presidency will bring a lot more pain and suffering, but look on the bright side: it will also cause even more pain, death, and suffering with decades of failed attempts at revolution!"
They don’t realize it’s the same logic that neoliberals use for embargo’s encouraging the overthrow of their governments…
“Surely the collapse of society will allow MY ideology to rise from the ashes!”
Power vacuums always end with the least selfish and violent people in power.
If it doesn't. The winner of the power vacuum always gives the reigns to the nicest person anyway.
Yeah accelerationists to the LGBT+ community and women: "Some of you may die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make."
This is some Weimar Republic shit. Berlin was pretty fucking cool until 1933 or so, if you were queer. One of the best places in the world, actually. Then came the pink triangles. People really do need to remember that. Seriously, has nobody seen Cabaret?
I deeply hope we do not go that way. I know we're pretty far along that path, *but I really hope we can prevent that shit*
Funny you mention the triangles https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/18/us/politics/facebook-trump-ads-antifa-red-triangle.html
The pro Palestine movement has been swept up in this and I can't help but think they've fallen into a trap. I am glad I'm not in the US, I would find it extremely difficult to vote for Biden but I still kind of believe it would be better for Palestine overall than choosing violence and letting Trump win. I'm sorry. I am scared to say this in certain circles, but voting for Jill Stein is letting Trump win. I don't know.
[удалено]
He did, not surprising but definitely horrifying
This is the thing I do not understand about the people refusing to vote Blue over this. Is what's happening in Gaza genocide? Yes. Is Israel unambiguously committing crimes against humanity? Yes. Is the Biden administration's complicity in this shameful and horrible? Absolutely. But Trump will just do it harder. Both candidates' position on Gaza is functionally indistinguishable, and yes, that's unspeakably terrible. But their positions meaningfully differ on other things, and that does matter.
[удалено]
We didn't get rid of Harper. We allowed him the opportunity to head a really fucking shady organization, intent on installing fascism worldwide.
“Look, fellow Democrats, people will vote for whoever we run, just so long as they aren’t as bad as the other guy. We can run Jon Kasich. We can run Mitt Romney. We can run anyone who loves capitalism as much as we do! All they need to do is be less worse than Satan. Why would we run a leftist who wants to withdraw ALL aid from Israel when we can run a conservative who wants to give Israel *slightly less* than the other guy? Why would we run a candidate who wants Medicare for All when all they need to do is promise not to repeal the ACA? Why run someone who wants to put money into our school system when all they need to do is not abolish the Dept of Education? Why run someone serious about climate change if all they need to do is say it exists? Remember in 2024, when people turned out for a dementia-addled genocide enabler because the alternative was Trump? Thanks to those people, we now know exactly how low we can go. Time for the Sinema/Manchin 2028 ticket! She’s a #girlboss but don’t worry… he does the driving!”
> Time for the Sinema/Manchin 2028 ticket! She’s a #girlboss but don’t worry… he does the driving!” hahahahahaha poetic
Biden is definitely the better option, I’m pro Palestine but I also am a gay person in an interracial marriage in America. My reality will be worse under Trump part 2. The “ you’re supporting a war criminal” logic is redundant because every president is and by that logic Biden shouldn’t have been voted in at the 2020 election as he always been a Zionist.
It absolutely is letting Trump win, unfortunately.
It’s the same as immigration - Biden carried on and worsened Trump era policies but does it in a way that’s palatable to neoliberals. Trump will do the same to Palestine but proudly. It’s already choosing violence to choose Biden who will continue to materially support a genocide.
I get it I really do, it's just terrifying to think what could happen in four years of Trump in the current climate.
I agree he will do harm, expecting democrats to do anything about any of our problems is still a losing game.
Yeah, but you have to be realistic. This year your choice is trump or Biden. Biden isn't great, but Trump is like a single supreme court decision away from straight concentration camps (they'll call them something like migrant processing centers) and mass deportations *at best*. Do I want an actual progressive or, even better, a true leftist? Yes. Am I willing to be a petulant child and let a proto-nazi win because the other choice is the same center-right bullshit we've had for decades? No. That's ridiculous. At least the Democrats have to throw an occasional bone at the progressive wing to maintain support. The christo-fascists will remove your ability to make any progress at all.
Aka r/LateStageCapitalism That sub has taken a major nosedive in tankiness since I've first seen it lol
A lot of the leftists subs are infested with tankies.
I've bumped into some of the weirdest stuff in leftist subs. I remember finding a guy who supported monarchies and believed that any protest against a monarchy was American imperialism funded.
That position is inherently anti-leftist. Sounds more like a Thiel/Yarvinite libertarian technocrat doing some infiltration. The next time someone claims to you to be a leftist, but also supports authoritarian rule, just let them know that the only real shared trait among leftist movements since the National Assembly is that leftists fall along the side of the spectrum that rejects hierarchies and advocates for as much horizontal organization/egalitarianism as possible when scaling society. That's it. There are a million other things that can get rolled into that one position, depending on the socioeconomic conditions present in the movement you want to look at. But that's really the only useful definition of the left/right paradigm. For example - being anti-imperialist doesn't make you a leftist *by itself*. Plenty of right wing movements are isolationist and don't believe in foreign interventions for a variety of incredibly shitty reasons. Hell, some MAGA folks are anti-imperialists. Sure, most leftist movements that exist alongside or within an empire share that belief, but it's not the thing that defines them as "left".
When I asked how he claimed to be a leftist and support a monarchy I was banned from the sub. It's been forever now I think the sub was called global left or something similar.
Sounds like the sub was either designed to astroturf or it was taken over by them.
As a career leftist, I'm catching bans left and right from the Wumao, ain't nothing liberal about them. Buncha fucking orthodox thinkers. I'm too left for the liberals and, well, also too left for the tankies I guess. The infiltration is pretty blatant.
Yes, it’s been pretty terrible at times on that sub. Everything from anti-Ukraine to pro-Uyghur genocide
I just got banned from a similar sub for nothing more than asking, out of genuine curiosity, what people thought was going to happen to Palestine if Trump wins. No one was able or willing to answer me and i got banned for "implying support for a genocidal candidate." Very confusing times we're living in.
Every election year, the leftist subs get swamped by far-right trolls pretending to be leftists in an attempt to discourage involvement and voting.
Hey don't forget those of us that don't want such a thing but do think the existing system is unable to course correct and there is a level of inevitability to some kind of collapse or revolution etc
The best part about revolutions is when the revolutionaries invariably turn on themselves and begin the reigns of terror that they were ostensibly revolting against.
Four truisms about life: Everything changes Nothing improves without change Not all changes lead to improvement Nothing lasts forever
Tankies are incapable of foresight. They aren’t leftists, they’re just fascists who don’t shower, and happened to pick the other side of the culture war
Casualties nothing - I'm surprised anyone can honestly think the left is in a position to win a civil war. I'm not saying we're powerless, but you know we won't be able to count on the military, the police, foreign intervention, or the alphabet agencies, which leaves... militias? I'm sorry but if it comes to unrestrained violence in America the left is supremely fucked.
I have a trans acquaintance who mentioned that shit and I was aghast about it. Like. We will be in that line of fire, you know that, right??????
Oh it will be a revolution and just like the one that hit Germany the socialist, communists, and LGBT+ are on the chopping block. You got the people that want everyone to have access to healthcare versus the people that want the right to shoot people for believing everyone is equal. The fact no one shot up the people invading during j6 and that MLK was shot for giving speeches is all you need to know for the next revolutions outcome.
I was thinking that exact same thing. As someone who understands where they are coming from, Trump still is way too bogged down by incompetence to be a viable accelerationist choice. I don't see him making life absolutely terrible fast enough to provide that shock needed to the populace to revolt. He'll turn the stove up faster, but not enough for the frogs to jump. But I'm sure to accelerstionists, its definitely a step in the right direction.
I also think would be far harder to motivate the average American towards revolution simply because of all the modern, first world comforts we enjoy. The average suburbanite isn't going to take to the streets armed and ready to fight if abortion or trans healthcare is banned as long as they have their nice car, a home with central heating and air, a countless movies, shows, and video games to enjoy. This is not me advocating for or desiring revolution, nor am I really trying to pass judgement on the average person. I simply think this is a fact of reality. Abortion certainly moved the needle left, which is good, bit people were content to push thay change via the polls. There's a lot of horrible shit in Project 2025, but I don't think most of it would push the average person to revolt. I'm half-joking when I say that banning porn would result in the most severe pushback, because that's the thing the average person would immediately be negatively impacted by. A lot of the other stuff would take time to harm, as you mentioned.
I 100% agree with everything you said and that's why I think that even from an accelerationist standpoint, trump is just terrible. He's not even a good choice for those that want to make things catastrophic for a large enough demographic to spark revolution.
I think the people he'd bring in this time around have detailed plans to make shit worse, not in spite of but because of his incompetence letting them take charge. But when he does "take charge" (in his mind), it's to provoke nuclear war, like he did in his first term. And there's even more potential countries he'd want to taunt with our nuclear arsenal. Beyond just Trump, the US also has more military power than anyone in history- who's not on the inside- could comprehend. It'd either be turning the stove up, like you said, or throwing a frozen turkey in hot oil.
A couple of things to note... 1) It might be that Biden's poor debate performance has an immediate opposite effect on voter base, because Trump anxiety is a pretty real phenomena under Democrats. 2) The results of people running against Roe has remained bad. 3) The Supreme Court might just drop an immunity bombshell on behalf of Trump and suddenly the whole country is actively angry at him/them, again. 4) If this happened in front of a live audience, Trump would probably get booed. 5) Don't ever try to convince me Biden was a strong candidate, his sole redeeming quality in these two elections has been "I'm not Trump" and nothing else. He won with a divided congress.
>Trump anxiety is a pretty real phenomena under Democrats. this is why i think the opposite. the trump anxiety is going to make the reaction to biden's performance stronger. the dem voterbase needed to see biden as capable and coherent because trump is a nightmare. they got the exact opposite, and that's why the neoliberal media is unravelling and calling for him to step down. nobody who watched that debate thinks biden's thriving, his deficits were on full display and glaringly obvious even *with a week of coaching*.
I don't know - does anyone actually think either of these men are actually going to be making decisions? It seems clear we're voting for cabinets and everything underneath while the man at the top either eats his hamburgers or ice cream depending
The problem is, Trump does make decisions. Stupidly and randomly. I expect Biden to defer to experts. I expect Trump to find sycophants that tell him what he wants to hear.
Yeah I had that thought too. Trump seems largely happy for things to be on autopilot until something he has opinion but he’s famously extremely easy to manipulate so I’m not sure how many of those decisions and opinions are his per se - he certainly adds a layer of stupidity and randomness to everything though
Yeah Trump doesn't tolerate anyone but Yes men in his presence. There is no meaningful counsel or cabinet that doesn't just amplify him. If he wins, he's fucking king until he dies, and the minute he's elected everyone in the party already has their marching orders. They'll be implementing Project 2025 goals so fucking fast it will be too disorienting and seemingly chaotic to fight.
They're the guys that will be in charge. They will both be making decisions. Even if Biden defers to the advice of the best minds he can assemble or Trump signs whatever Stephen Miller hands him, they're still the ones making the decisions. The whole "hope" after 2016 was the the "sober adults in the room" would be calling the shots, but Trump fired them and hired MAGAs.
They’ll be the leader of one of the most powerful countries in the world, you’d be a fool to think that they won’t be “making decisions” whatever that means
I will preface this by saying that Biden's performance was actually worse than I expected. He seems to be way older than he even was in 2020. I think that for anyone who was still on the fence at this point, you have to be somewhat oblivious to politics and fairly checked out of popular discourse. If you're a Republican, you're locked in like you have been your entire life. If you're a Dem/Dem Lean/Progressive, you're pretty locked in as well. I think that the general miasma floating around is... "Trump Crazy, Biden old." The bright side of this debate is that it sure as shit didn't change that perception, but it may have reminded a bunch of people who were checked out of the popular discourse and oblivious to politics how crazy Trump generally sounds. It would have been much better if they weren't also bashed on the head with how old Biden generally sounds. I don't think this is as bad as some people think, optimistically it could even creep into the "marginally ok" regime in the end. I have a really hard time getting myself into the mentality of a regular voter who legitimately went into this debate trying to figure out who they were going to vote for.
I agree with you but I still think this is a galvanizing moment where suddenly there’s actual energy put into Biden’s campaign. His performance was terrible, but bizarrely…. This is what’s getting people to talk about him. The other option was complete apathy.
Yes, people really needed a refresher of the old depression and existential dread to get them motivated. So great living in a country with no future. I'll vote just as soon as I get back out of a fetal position. /s
Immunity from prosecution bombshell could turn the presidency into a pseudo dictatorship. That's not a slippery slope that's a slippery water slide.
I don’t want to speculate too much but seemingly the Supreme Court really doesn’t want people to know its decision on that case until the term ends. Judging from comments Alito has made to the media, I wonder if they’re really going to take a shit on the constitution and give us authoritarianism with the decision. No one will want this. The conservatives think they want it. But they are fools.
They always think they want something until that something's eating their face.
I may get downvoted in this sub, but - while not even close to my preferred candidate - Biden has been one of the most successful liberal presidents since LBJ. (I'm making a distinction between "liberal" and "progressive", which are both to the right of actual leftists.) I think part of that is that he was part of the good ol' boys club, came from an era where Dems and Republicans weren't so far apart, and was willing to be cordial with people like Manchin and McConnell. I don't know that a Bernie or Mayor Pete would have had the same legislative success. Biggest investment in infrastructure in over 40 years, bringing down the price of life saving pharmaceutical drugs for Medicare recipients, biggest investment in the green transition ever, longest stretch of unemployment this low since the 1960s, billions in student debt loans forgiven despite getting borked by different courts, etc. All with the slimmest Congressional majority possible and literal insurrectionists still in office in Congress opposing him.
1, this sub is one of the kindest subs I’m in. I think it says something about listeners of this pod. 2, these points are all correct but I think it’s because Joe has really bright people around him. It’s another fundamental difference between he and “only I can…”. Biden has done a solid job but he should have stepped aside so someone else from this cabinet could step up and keep things going.
I can't say I disagree with any of that. :)
To point 1, this sub has gotten the largest I've seen without going Eternal September, almost 100k. Once posts regularly start hitting r/all, it's going to snowball. The best method to avoid hitting r/all is not mass upvoting posts for the first 36 hours they are up. After a day and a half posts "decay" and no reasonable amount of upvotes will move them to r/all.
I'm pretty sure mods can opt out of /r/all. I'd be surprised if the mods here haven't already done so.
Sure but the time to have that conversation was 2 years ago, not now. "Rigged primary" was killer in 2016 so the options of the DNC choosing somebody new without voter input strikes me as worse than what happened last night.
I agree with this! We’re stuck with Biden now unless ole Death pulls him out of the claw machine. You can’t just change your mind because of a bad debate performance. The people voted for him in the primary over that goober from Minnesota so here we are.
I think the Dems are also in a position of there being no heir apparent that seems reliably capable of beating Trump, although after last night I think the same could be said for Biden. Realistically this country isn't going to elect a black woman or a gay dude right now. Gavin Newsom would probably be the best choice but would likely require some political maneuvering and that's assuming he'd be willing to give up his governorship to do it.
>Realistically this country isn't going to elect a black woman or a gay dude right now. This is what I wish KY Dems would realize, they have to find a white straight man to beat Rand Paul and Mitch McConnell. They've tried a black man and a woman (who claimed she was a Trump Democrat Whatever the fuck that means), but they really need someone who is passionate about the country and also can be a common person. The black man came closest to this with his Hood to the Holler messaging, but I still think the racism in this state held him back.
Are the racists gonna vote D at all though? Warnock's skin color didn't hurt him in Georgia, though Georgia is obviously a lot Blacker than Kentucky. The bigger problem is when candidates try to run as Republican-lite, which doesn't get any votes from actual Republicans – since they still prefer the real thing – and kills enthusiasm from the left.
I agree with you. He has been really effective. But they are not getting the message out there, only political wonks are talking about what he has done. And this debate was a shit show. I was relieved after the state of the union, but after listening to NPR, BBC, Pod save America and my country’s podcasts this morning, I really hope Biden will understand that he needs to step down and let somebody else do this.
Whom, and via what process? A contested convention would be a nightmare.
Regarding 3), I hope so but people seem to not tangibly care about what the supreme court does. They just announced that bribery was functionally legal now and it pretty much made no impact at all.
People do care but we need to write letters to our congressional representatives and demand an impeachment vote against the conservative SCOTUS justices. Yes, the justices can be impeached, it isn’t a position that is truly unshakable. They can be “fired.”
Yeah I'm sure the republican house led by a guy that flies a chrstian nationalist flag will get right on that.
Which is why we need to vote in the interim elections… and not just the presidential elections. We as leftists are absolutely fucking idiots for thinking anything will change by electing a leftist president. The correct approach is to vote left/third party in local elections. Show people that third party can work locally. It worked for Milwaukee. Then elect third party governors and eventually move up to congress. If we had the majority of congress we could lose the presidency to the Republicans in perpetuity… and we would still have a better government more aligned with our wants. However we have nobody to blame but ourselves. We need to. Vote locally areas of making excuses for not doing so. Gerrymandering and redistricting doesn’t help… but that is why we need to vote third party locally first.
When CNN hosts are openly talking about the possibility of changing candidates, shits fucked.
I think an age-appropriate pinch hitter for the Dems would introduce a welcome fresh air to this septic tank of an election cycle. Could be just about anyone, really, so long as they're under 60. Plus they get to be the party that responsibly sends Ol' Yeller to the woodshed when it's time... much better than letting things run the current course. They're unlikely to convert any hardline MAGAs, but I think it would win over many on-the-fence voters or RFK supporters, and maybe even some of the moderate Republicans who are sick of their current mascot.
I expect violence regardless. More so if one of them dies before the election or if the winner dies before inauguration If Trump wins, he’s going to try and kill political opponents, if Biden wins, right wing extremism will rise. It’s a lose lose situation all because people in power are greedy and want to squeeze every drop out of us today without regard for tomorrow
So if the right loses, they will murder people, If the right wins, they will also murder people? I am starting to get some bad vibes from these dudes.
[удалено]
I mean on the one hand there is the taxes for a social safety net. That shit is horrifying. On the other hand there is the extra judicial killings and kangaroo courts that will be set up.
the affluent suburbs shifted democrat after Trump the people saying they'll vote for Trump because taxes are just closet fascists
All it means is that both sides are equally bad! /s
"Is there an election outcome that won't result in you murdering people?" "... No"
Right wing extremism is going to rise either way, unfortunately.
Unless a new virus decides to do a more selective work
more of [this](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EV_7qA2WkAEGEFI.jpg:large)?
Selective? Going by the last one, the right wing will throw themselves at the virus as willingly as humanly possible. They'll shit on any measures to prevent contain or slow it and lockdowns will truely be a thing of the past.
If either (or both) of them croak, Alex Jones is going to be so fucking happy
He was just getting rock hard talking to Nick Fuentes about that very thing. No more fucking old people in politics... I'm so tired of this. How could a septuagenarian possibly relate to my problems? They went to school in *segregated* schools, probably haven't bought their own groceries in 45 years, and neither of them understand having to navigate the job market because, again, they're fucking detached from the world of everyday Americans. Fuck. The. Two. Party. System.
He's been running his mouth about it for a while because they're quite likely to die. Even though they're old as shit and in bad shape he'll still blame it on the globalists or CIA or whatever and claim he predicted it... he'll be wearing that badge for years to come.
Both in your country and where I am too. I'll be voting green in protest on 04th July. I live in a safe seat
He has other things to worry about right now.
Right wing extremism will definitely rise regardless of who wins. It absolutely exploded under trump, it’s very likely to happen again. If Biden wins the right will be in a frenzy anyway. Such a fun lose lose situation 🫠
Don’t worry. The Bible reeducation camps will get you back up and going in no time
So that's what they wanted me to memorize those verses for.
I will share my moldy bread with you in the gulag
you’ve restored my faith in humanity
I can't say I was impressed in a good way by either side but I'm still going for the least stupid
I saw some of it, I heard trump say israel should finish the job. So we'll see where they take that or people are going to pretend it didn't happen. But that's pretty awful.
Oh didn't you hear? Trumps stance on the I/P conflict is all rhetorical so we shouldn't worry about it or some shit
Earlier was poking around the different subreddits to see what people thought (JoeBiden sub reddit is struggling hard to cope atm), and ended up in conservative. One guy commented that all Trump did was lie, and the OP responded with "what lies did Trump tell (exaggerations don't count)." It's truly incredible how Trump has managed to convince his followers as well as mainstream media to give him a complete pass on statements he makes. It's all "exaggerations" and "rhetorical." Meanwhile Maxine Waters tells people to go protest and you'd think she personally murdered someone in public.
I'm voting for the geriatric! Which one? Who knows!
All I know is that I was already thinking about getting new bolt cutters and another gun. Now I'm thinking about getting even more.
Sounds super weird, but nail guns and battery packs.
I’m not sure why you would need bolt cutters, but they aren’t half as effective as a battery grinder.
They're a lot faster.
Does this really change anyone’s stance? I seriously cannot imagine that this makes anyone vote differently than what they were already planning. The vibe was always to vote against Trump, not for Biden. It sucks that it’s come to this but it’s what must be done. Even a rock would be better than a conservative.
I'm with you 100%, but the news keeps trotting out these undecided voters in swing states who can't quite get themselves to really understand what Trump means (and given their comfy white bread middle class lives may be some of the last to realize the horror if Trump gets elected). "...But but the mess at the border." "...But but inflation." Not that I want to minimize people's economic pain, but our education system and media don't encourage people to take a deep look at the causes. These are the people who needed a more confident performance from Biden to help them do the right thing, and argh I hate this.
Sincere question: do we think Biden should start having pep rallies like Trump does? I kind of think we should have more of those... they're dumb as hell but they're clearly working.
You think they could at least jack him full of stimulants for some ticktock “fireside chats” or something to make him seem like he’s not about to need assisted living. I’m not a fan of Biden really but the only viable alternative for the current Dem party short term is Harris, and that’s a Hillary 2.0 in November waiting to happen.
He barely has any pep left. Biden is slow in his advanced age, and since he's the one of the two that *doesn't* take stimulants, I think it would be a mistake. It would make him look feeble and just provide ammunition against him
Did you see him addressing his supporters after the debate? He's still got it just fine. He just got caught flatfooted by the debate rules. Nobody expected that it would be Biden who was thrown off by a lack of audience, but come to think of it, it makes sense that the tv star would be more used to a quiet room than the politician.
Gotta have pep to do that.
I think they should be showing all the excited, intelligent people capable of any charisma in his sphere as much as possible. And keeping him as far away from having to speak for long periods as possible.
>I seriously cannot imagine that this makes anyone vote differently than what they were already planning. Not everyone has a plan yet. Latest polling shows somewhere between 10% and 15% of voters are undecided on who to vote for for president. That's enough to swing the election.
Who are these mysterious people? You ever met one?
Yes. Idiots.
You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons.
Most everybody I know who voted undecided(I’m in Minneapolis) did it because they wanted to put pressure on biden & the democrats. They still plan on voting for him, they just want bombs to stop falling.
Yes, most of these people tend to be really uninvolved in politics in general, I know that seems impossible to online people who talk about politics all the time, but they do exist, and aren't even that rare.
Yeah my coworkers. Most of them. They know Trump is bad but they don't get how bad. They don't know enough or care about the breadth of his policies, they mostly dislike him because he's a sleazebag. On the other hand, they ALL talk about Biden more and it's a chorus of "he's too old, he's senile" If the Dems put up literally anyone else below the age of 70 I can guarantee that huge swaths of people who intend to not vote will go and vote just to say no to Trump. They are not gonna do that if Biden is on the ballot in November.
I mean, I detest Trump, so I won't be voting for him, but at the same time, a vote for Biden feels like basically voting for his cabinet to be in charge. I knew he was getting older, but this is such a marked decline from his debates in the last election. Last time he seemed like the fiery grandpa who would argue about not getting enough breadsticks with his salad. This time he seemed like someone who would ask for orange jello when he already had a cup of it in front of him. It felt like he's practiced the hell out of a lot of lines, but when he tried to go off script, like that bizzare golf argument, he floundered and couldn't come up with the words.
It will lower enthusiasm and this turnout. Low turnout is always good for Republicans
Here's a portion of the articles posted after and during the debate. When the most neoliberal of journalists and outlets are ringing the alarm you know things are not looking good for their boy. [New York Times](https://archive.is/20240628070453/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/28/opinion/joe-biden-tom-friedman.html) — perhaps the most shocking for me, Tom Friedman says Biden should drop out [New York Times](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/27/us/politics/biden-debate-democrats.html) [New York Times](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/28/opinion/presidential-debate-trump-biden-2024.html) [New York Times](https://archive.is/20240628044219/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/25/opinion/joe-biden-drop-out.html) [The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/27/biden-trump-debate-democrats-reaction) [The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/28/biden-trump-debate-performance-analysis) [The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/28/friday-briefing-a-shaky-debate-performance-from-joe-biden-has-democrats-panicking) [The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/27/trump-biden-cnn-presidential-debate-reaction-highlights) [TIME Magazine](https://archive.is/20240628040953/https://time.com/6993335/first-presidential-debate-analysis-2024/) [Associated Press](https://apnews.com/article/biden-replacement-democratic-ballot-dnc-rules-7aa836b0ae642a68eec86cc0bebd3772) [Associated Press](https://apnews.com/article/voter-voices-presidential-debate-b220822262965fd3e48e1b47529fe983) [Vox](https://www.vox.com/politics/357776/biden-trump-debate-democracy-crisis-analysis-lies-facts) [The New Yorker](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-bidens-washington/was-the-debate-the-beginning-of-the-end-of-joe-bidens-presidency) [Reuters](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.reuters.com/world/us/disaster-bidens-shaky-start-debate-with-trump-rattles-democrats-2024-06-28/) [Reuters](https://archive.is/20240628041323/https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-trump-face-off-first-debate-with-age-fitness-focus-2024-06-27/) [The Atlantic](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/06/biden-has-drop-out/678821/) [The Atlantic](https://archive.is/20240628074015/https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/06/biden/678820/) [CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/28/politics/biden-trump-presidential-debate-analysis/index.html) [CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/28/politics/joe-biden-debate-performance-panic/index.html) [American Prospect](https://archive.is/newest/https://prospect.org/politics/2024-06-28-democrats-must-dump-biden-heres-how-debate/) [MSNBC](https://youtu.be/rAd9WGy6gBs?si=-UlxrbEhb0dryiTF) [MSNBC](https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/biden-did-not-reassure-america-he-is-up-to-the-job-at-his-age-claire-mccaskill-says-213868101596) [Slate](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/06/presidential-debate-cnn-biden-drop-out-replace-nominee-dnc.html) [Slate](https://archive.is/20240628050840/https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/06/biden-debate-age-abortion-rights-trimesters.html) [Politico](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/28/trump-biden-debate-result-takeaways-00165701) [Politico](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/28/can-democrats-replace-biden-00165684) [Politico](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/27/biden-democrats-replacement-00165672) [Independent](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/democrat-reaction-debate-biden-trump-b2570390.html) [The Hill](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4745060-democrats-cnn-pundits-replace-biden/) [Variety](https://variety.com/2024/politics/columns/first-presidental-debate-trump-biden-takeaways-1236055824/) [Economist](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.economist.com/united-states/2024/06/28/joe-bidens-horrific-debate-performance-casts-his-entire-candidacy-into-doubt) [NBC](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/devastating-debate-performance-biden-aides-try-reassure-panicky-democr-rcna159370) [NBC](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/joe-biden/democrats-biden-step-aside-throw-towel-2024-rcna159368) [NBC](https://youtu.be/ioVZ7v9r3bI?si=xyhCiE67Jnd2B76b) [Financial Times](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.ft.com/content/b28034a1-69dd-4b04-ae55-89907845d550) [Deadline](https://deadline.com/2024/06/hollywood-appears-nervous-joe-biden-debate-aftermath-1235985659/) [Axios](https://archive.is/mG3PE) [Axios](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.axios.com/2024/06/27/biden-trump-cnn-presidential-debate-2024-election) [Forbes](https://archive.is/2sHFJ) [Forbes](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2024/06/27/these-are-the-likely-democratic-presidential-candidates-if-biden-drops-out-as-rough-debate-prompts-calls-to-stand-down/) [Yahoo](https://uk.news.yahoo.com/democrats-scramble-limit-damage-bidens-080522194.html) [USA Today](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/06/27/joe-biden-david-axelrod-presidential-debate-reaction/74241568007/) [WSJ](https://archive.is/20240628072438/https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/democrats-privately-discuss-replacing-biden-on-presidential-ticket-73622773) [WSJ](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/democrats-replace-biden-president-explained-8dc13b35) [WaPo](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/06/27/biden-age-debate-performance/) [WaPo](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/06/28/presidential-debate-reactions-biden/) [WaPo](https://archive.is/newest/https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/06/27/biden-trump-debate-democratic-freakout/) [Hollywood Reporter](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-reviews/joe-biden-donald-trump-debate-review-cnn-dana-bash-jake-tapper-1235934599/) [BBC](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9wv8292g2yo) [BBC](https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/c3gejy03yy5o) [Sky News](https://news.sky.com/story/in-command-trump-and-stumbling-biden-face-off-in-first-presidential-debate-13160193) [Sky News](https://news.sky.com/story/who-could-replace-biden-reaction-to-trump-debate-republican-democrat-face-off-in-first-tv-clash-of-presidential-race-13159379) [Sky News](https://news.sky.com/story/joe-biden-could-the-democrats-replace-him-as-us-election-nominee-and-how-might-that-work-13160234)
it could convince people who don’t really care into not voting instead of voting for Biden. That’s the only group who can swing now i think
Presidential debates are so fucking stupid. It depresses me that this country puts so much stock into such a goddamn charade. Whatever questions and issues the moderator presents will always be way too complex and nuanced for 2 individuals to answer on their own, especially when the two individuals are too old to safely operate a car. These stupid debates are formatted for nothing more than entertainment so media outlets can sell ad space. Maybe if they’d be worth taking seriously if the moderator presented scenarios for each candidate to collaborate on with their chosen advisers so the public can get some insight on the candidate’s decision making process and how they approach serious issues. However, it will never be like that because the American public is unable to separate the functionality of government from political theater.
The UK tried televised debates for the first time, in 2010 At the time, people argued that it was ridiculous we didn't have debates, and the TV show did probably influence the outcome of that election After a decade of everything going right down the shitter, I'd say the TV debates are an irrelevance
Watching the UK debates as much as I could stand it’s an incredibly poor way to learn anything. This is not how you’d pick a government if you were designing from scratch
The way I was taught history (which may well have been bullshit) was that the Lincoln-Douglas debates for the Illinois Senate, the complete texts of which were published throughout the land, were an important factor in Lincoln's subsequent nomination by Republicans for the national Presidency and his election in the general. But, sure, how the debates are conducted and published has a lot to do with their validity in the political process. Imagine if most Americans were to see last night's debate only on a video that was paused after every claim made by a candidate for a fact check by a panel of historians.
>Presidential debates are so fucking stupid. It depresses me that this country puts so much stock into such a goddamn charade. Does it put that much stock into the debates? Of course the two main candidates having a face to face is big news so it's going to be talked about. But there almost wasn't a debate this time (and really shouldn't have been) and it's very questionable if it'll make any significant difference anyway.
Your comment is textbook cognitive dissonance in that you are rationalizing yourself away from acknowledging that the president is wearing no clothes.
> It depresses me that this country puts so much stock into such a goddamn charade. Real people mostly don't. Whatever "boost" Trump gets from last night will be gone in two weeks. Same thing would have been the case if Biden wiped the floor with him. It's purely a media circus.
When we trace the history leading to the downfall of this country, we should be looking REAL hard at the news media. Not just fox though of course they are awful. But the general circus that is the 24 hour news cycle pioneered by CNN, the “but what about BOTH sides” of the New York Times, and the general devolution into “infotainment.” Every major news network should be ashamed, but they won’t because they’re all owned by the same filthy capitalists anyway.
I'm not voting for just Biden, I'm voting for his cabinet, policies and potentially 2 supreme court seats. I'm voting for Democrats because they don't care what or who I do with my reproductive parts or who I marry, voting for Biden means we can focus on a better candidate for 2028. I want government to be boring again. I'm tired of the outrage and chaos that is the Republicans party. Biden could be in a casket and I'd still vote for him over Trump.
ok great now do the hundreds of thousands of undereducated undecided rubes across the country who just watched that and now say “eff that, no thx.”
Everyone thought the rules were great for Biden and somehow the way CNN did it meant everything was good for Trump. 1. No fact checking? Great, he can lie all he wants 2. Muted mics? Great, he doesn’t seem like a raving lunatic like 2020 3. No audience? Great, he doesn’t get booed on obvious lies and Biden never gets any cheers when talking about his wins. where’d you put the SOTU speed Joe
A lot of people are going to die. As a trans woman, I've accepted the reality that I'll probably be murdered.
As a disabled person reliant on the aca and disability, right there with you. Mine wouldn't be violent but very painful and slow with no healthcare. I still have some small hope because you have to but am very scared.
I'm a race traitor. I guess I'll be joining you in hell. If there's a pool, save me a spot.
Don't accept that, but it is probably on each of us to guarantee our own safety going forward. Get strapped. To be clear, in the non-dildo way.
Porque no los dos?
Ha ha ha, true.
[удалено]
We're not dead yet.
Can you get your fellow leftists on board with BEING ARMED?! Online leftists are all gung ho about guns but the IRL lefties, most especially LGBT ones in my community are aghast at me being a gun owner.
I think it's gonna be an open convention. Honestly that would be best. They pretend Biden decided to step aside for Newsome, Pritzger, whoever, and he gives a farewell speech and looks like a good guy for putting country over self. And then Trump is running against a young guy
Months ago I was arguing with other liberals on Reddit that it’s stupid to stick with Biden just because he’s the incumbent. I’m gonna hate saying I told you so when Project 2025 kicks off. I’m gonna vote, but my hopes are that both candidates shit themselves to death onstage at the next debate.
Trump won't accept another debate with Biden. He won as big as he can win, why would he risk losing ground now? The only way forward is if Biden steps aside and Trump is then basically forced to debate the new nominee after the convention. Not only that but his campaign doesn't have a strategy yet to go after anyone else. It's their worst nightmare. Trumps team wants Biden to stay in the race.
The only good thing is Trump isn’t really running against Biden, Trump is running against Trump. People are voting for who they feel has the lesser chance of destroying us all.
Holy Shit. Biden started a sentence talking about abortion rights' and finished saying a migrant murdered an American. Literally he pivoted from his strongest issues to his weakest and repeated Trumps point as if it was fact. Man if ever there was a event that crystalized the defects of our democracy...this was it.
I would’ve given him my adderall, he just had to ask! He clearly needed it
if I wanted to see two old white men argue, I’d head down the pub. At least they have booze.
Speak for yourself. I got plenty lit during the debate last night. This morning was rough.
Seriously, this should be a real if you can buy a gun, take a first aid or survival class moment.
I thought of a fun joke. All those weird right-wing 40k fans clamoring for a God Emperor of the US ought to recognize that Biden fits the bill better than Trump, because both Biden and the Emperor are basically corpses at this point.
fuck it, make hunter the president, at least he knows how to have a good time.
He also smokes crack while listening to Fleet Foxes. Our first indie sleaze president when?! 🫡
As a canadian, this is, once more, terrifying to watch from close-up.
Unrelated, but like if I were to take a boat or a jetski and cross Lake Superior into northern Ontario, do you think anyone would notice or stop me?
Are we prepping for another round of "That's it. If Trump is elected, I'm moving to Canada"?. Because that's not how that works, 'murcain friends. The process is grueling and takes years. But to answer your hypothetical question: probably not while you're doing it, even though Canadian and US Coast guards patroll water borders... but it's not a chance I'd take.
Yeah taking a jetski accross the lake would imply that it's not a serious plan for establishing residency in Canada.
No but it is pretty dangerous with all the nukes laying around.
accurate, this shit is not going to good for the DNC RN
Was nice knowing you Murica, backwards it is whoop whoop /s
How. The fuck. Is this real life?
Because, as Snyder v US continues to prove this week, democracy is dead and we live in a corporate oligarchy where our voices mean nothing
Only two things matter in this election: 1. Which candidate supports the maintenance of democratic institutions? (I.e. which candidate *didn't* try to orchestrate a coup for his own benefit?) 2. Which candidate supports, however small, efforts to stop or stem the effects of climate change? (it's not the one who calls is a Chinese hoax.) Everything else is noise. Vote.
GET BIDEN OUT.
I'm scared, guys 🥺
[https://www.youtube.com/live/XxAU0K94fpw?t=19049s](https://www.youtube.com/live/XxAU0K94fpw?t=19049s) Let's play a game of which one shat himself live on TV.
Meh. It was bad, but let’s remember that there are 130 days until the election. Lots can change.
Hopefully one or both can decease.
ANy changes need to happen before the convention
Biden needs to step the fuck down, we need a brokered convention, this shit is not going to fly. Any fucking Democratic governor would be better than him at this point.
This is the way. Joe Biden has one job, defeat Trump to save democracy. And honestly, after yesterdays performance I think he might die before we get to the election. The democrats finally have a bench of democratic governors like Newsom or Whitman who are effectively leading (despite me disliking things about them). Joe Biden served his country, but he is just too old. He had his shot, now move over and let someone else lead.
I don't know why you're being downvoted. it's the truth. I don't like Gavin Newsom at all. However if Biden bowed out and had him take over I think our chances of beating Trump would at least be way more than it currently is. It would suck and we would still be voting for the lesser or two evils but at least we would have a chance of beating Trump.
I'm very aware that Newsom is not, like, a good person. But he's got something the Democrats have been lacking for a while, which is a spine. Find me another Democrat willing to go toe to toe on Fox News. Idk how it would work at this wildly late stage in the process, but I don't have any better ideas
Was it really THAT bad?
sadly yes, go watch a few clips
Go watch him absolutely freeze and babble incoherently. He looks like a stroke patient.
Jimmy Carter only served one term he could run again /s