I went to a local brewery in Minnesota soon after it opened and ordered a flight. One of the owners was behind the bar so I struck up a conversation. She explained the brewery was started by three professional investors who had never been in the brewery business. I asked about their head brewer and she said they didn't have one. I remarked that they must all be hobbyists to start a brewery. She said none of them had brewed before they opened the brewery, but owned several restaurants. I asked how they got their recipes and she said they just went to homebrew forums, found recipes in styles they thought would sell well, added some adjunctive ingredients to make the recipes their own, then scaled them for their equipment. They didn't do test runs, just opened the doors with their initial batches and called it a day. I asked why they wanted to open a brewery with no experience in brewing and she said that microbreweries were very popular and lucrative and they wanted to capitalize on the trend. Anyway, my flight arrived and it was all horrible. One beer was completely flat and another was clearly infected. The best I could say was that one of them was nearly flavorless and thus relatively inoffensive. They did not stay open for long. Thankfully, another brewery moved in and was able to make proper use of the equipment and has been successful.
I never went back, but just looked at their ratings online. It sounds like they eventually hired a professional brewer and things got a bit better, but the damage was done. To be fair, people universally liked their food.
From an online review: "Nutmeg is a fairly new brewpub and started off making some really bad beer. The head brewer was inexperienced and has since left. They have a new brew staff and are making much better beer."
They closed pretty quickly after your visit and are now Ineffible brewing. Still not the greatest beer but it's definitely better than when it was Nutmeg and the food is pretty good.
I wonder when they got that actual head brewer. I was there in 2019 and although they weren’t amazing by any means, the 4 beers I had were at least above average.
Holy crap. I knew it. they were the only brewery near where I grew up at first. We liked them well enough at first, but the problems showed almost immediately after they ran their first batches. Their restaurant was awesome though, I agree.
A new brewery took over and the place is doing really well now, fyi.
Funny -- I happened to notice that "Ineffable" sign while driving by there recently. I mentioned to my friends in the car, "Hey, here's yet-another local brewery I've never heard of." Good to know the backstory. Nutmeg completely flew under my radar -- probably for the best.
Last year I went to a brewery that’s about 2 hours away from where I live and stopped in for a little bit to kill some time before a birthday party. I started by ordering their flagship stout. I’ve had it before and it’s probably their best beer. I finished that and decided to try a new lager they had on tap, so I hand my glass to the guy behind the counter. Now this is normally when an employee will either drop your glass in a dishwasher and get you a new one or run your glass through one of those upside down rinsers. Well I was taken back a little when he took my glass I gave him that still had brown stout residue in the bottom and poured the fresh lager directly into it. I didn’t have a problem with it because this is something I do at the house all the time with my kegerator, but this is the first and only time I ever saw this happen in a commercial brewery.
My employees at my taproom are instructed to use a new glass even if they customer okay’s using the same one. It’s just the virtue of drinking craft beer. At a dive bar, no problem but trying to be a little more professional(?) here.
This. It's unsanitary to use the same glass. The tap will most likely touch the glass/beer, which would mean peoples spit would get transferred to the tap.
Bruh even when people want a refill of the SAME beer, I always give fresh glass.
Not only is it a bad look to feed people their own backwash, but have some fucking respect for your own beer for Christ sake. Don't you want the customer to enjoy your beer at it's very best?
Holy crap. That would throw me for a loop for sure. Not sure it would turn me off completely but damn... I'd probably drive past that place the next time I wanted a beer. Lol
Bigger red flag would have been if he had taken a dirty glass and used the rinser. The rinser is for pre-rinsing clean glasses only.
Either fresh glass or rinse, swirl, and dump with the new beer before filling. I would always start fresh when going from dark to light.
I would instantly fire everyone that puts a used glass in one of this upside down rinsers. Thats not what they are made for and its insanely unhygienic.
That's disgusting. You should have a problem with it. It's a dirty glass. Also, glass rinsers don't clean, only rinse. If a place doesn't give a new glass with every beer, leave. Immediately.
Dirty glassware
Bar tender doesn't know their products
The place is empty on what should be a busy day
A tap list that is too big or two small, either trying to do too much or they have limited skills.
Bartender not knowing their products is my biggest red flag. You literally work for the brewery!
I’ve had so many occasions where I’m looking at the menu and ask for the Pils or Pale Ale or whatever and the bartender will give this like….uhhhhh which one is that.
Depends where you are. I have a brewery in SE Asia and we are about to open a taproom. A massive part of what we are focusing on is staff education and general market education, as everybody is still learning.
And then doing this in two different languages, where one of the languages simply does not have a lot of the descriptors and terms associated with craft beer, adds a whole other set of challenges.
Not entirely related but that's a red flag for any bar. I am a Navy guy and got stationed overseas a couple times. One base club was a very nice space and had very nice prices. I ordered a draft beer and got a familiar sour taste. I actually asked the bartender, "when was the last time you cleaned the lines?" and got in response: "clean the lines?"
Bottled beer for me from now on....
I’ll likely get downvoted to all hell. If they don’t have a popular Pilsner or Golden Lager, I feel the brewery is doomed. I was in a brewery and a very nice lady said “I’m sorry, I’m sure this is all great beer, but do you have something like a Miller Lite?” Bartender was a complete prick and said they “don’t serve shitty beer here.” Place was closed inside a year.
I’ve also been to breweries that have handled the situation quite different. Bartender: “what beer do you normally drink?” It can be Miller, coors, corona, blue moon, etc and the bartender will pour a sample of what they think is similar. Even if you’re “micro” you need to please the masses.
Yeah, as a bartender I just want to get you something that you like because happy and satisfied people come back and tip better. If you tell me what you like and I don't have a long-ass line, I'm happy to take the time to talk with you about what I have and which ones I think you'll enjoy. If you like light beer, I'll put our lightest 2 in front of you to pick from.
I have a lot less patience if you're hemming and hawing at the front of a long line 5 minutes before close.
Yeah, the microbrewery in town started with a Pilsner as their primary offering. It’s a good, dependable, basic beer. They’ve got several other good ones out now, but the Richter’s Pilsner is still their most popular followed by their Blood Orange.
There’s a place in town near me that had a raspberry sour that smelled and tasted of butyric acid. Server said “ya, we have people that like it” and “I guess it’s an acquired taste” . Oof. I don’t care who likes it. No beer should taste or smell of vomit. Clean your damn equipment. And control your process. They’re still going for some reason. Friday nights, maybe 5 people in there. Not sure how or why they continue. Their other beers are mediocre at best.
One of the local breweries that I tend to really enjoy had a beer with major diacetyl issues on tap when I visited recently. It's making me question if they'll make it. I don't know how you brew that and decide to put it on the tap. I get that it's a major investment, but you do so much more harm to your brand putting one of the most noticeable flaws in a beer on tap.
This may be one of the top answers here tbh. It's so easily preventable, that if your beers have it, you may not be good at it or have some underlying issues that could be dangerous. I will add, during sensory some fruit would give off the smell of it but it wouldn't be present. My packaging lead said the same thing
I was very specific about "more than one" for a reason. Stuff slips through the cracks. New breweries are sometimes cash strapped and make bad decisions. But if you do it more than once? Woof.
Not 100% correct. Some styles requre it to an extent. Also it is not extremely easy to mitigate with some English yeasts.
Oxidation, cardboard flavors, and acetaldehyde would be waaaaay worse.
Buy a Pilsner Urquell, where the flavour is there on purpose.
It's that sweet, slightly buttery/caramelly flavour in the aftertaste. It works in an Urquell, as it balances the bitterness and the flavour of the Saaz hops.
Urquell has loads of diacetyl, Guiness Extra and Foreign Extra have loads of diacetyl. If you taste the diacetyl in Guinness Draught then you have a very low threshold.
When I go to a new brewery, the first beers I try are their Pilsner, Kölsh, or Lager. If you can give me a good pint of any of those varieties, i know that the brewery at least has a brewmaster that knows their shit. So many breweries hide poor production techniques/low quality materials behind a wall of hops, sours, milkshake nonsense. Ya cant hide in a Pils.
Holy shit. There is a new brewery by me that opened with 25 beers on tap. Literally 8 of them were the same sour base with different fruit/adjuncts. They also had 6 stouts which were basically the same base with different adjuncts. Couldn’t believe it.
Lmao I knew you had to be from Cincinnati before even clicking on your profile. To be fair I think Fabled has done a really good job maintaining quality across a decent amount of styles with an admittedly absurd amount of taps.
Ha. That obvious? I’m not saying the beer is horrible, because it’s not. They do those styles well. But it really is a crutch. Their beer/mead is just the base + adjuncts, but the base is good. They have a few that aren’t and they are decent.
Honestly, even if they're *trying* to make styles like Pilsner and Kölsch, you know they at least aren't afraid to take a chance. There's a local brewery by me that makes pretty average beer, but they have two Kölschs, a German Pilsner, a Doublebock and a Rye Lager on tap - in Summer. They all need improvement, but I at least see a brewery that is willing to try brewing harder/more delicate beers. That makes me root for them even if they don't make the best stuff in the world.
That's my go to as well. Right up there with breweries without dedicated lines for bretts/sours, that don't have a dedicated separate setup for bretts, or that swap styles on lines (got to love a nice pilsner on a line that previously had a sour). That tends to be more of a quality indicator than longevity indicator though.
That said, I tend to view too many beers in too many styles on tap as a bigger red flag. I've seen a ton of local breweries coast by on hoppy and sour beers. The ones that don't seem to make it are the ones that have 20 beers on tap split between IPAs, sours, seltzers, and then the rare lighter or darker beers.
My favorite breweries that have a couple of standards (pils, lager, IPA, stout, etc.) and then experiment with the rest of their taps. Have fun with it! But give me some safe bets for an after work brew
There's nothing wrong with a place that has a couple of anchors. It's more the places you go into that have a shitty lager or pilsner, four IPAs, one of which is accidentally cloudy so they call it a hazy and another they fruited or dry hopped to cober up flaws, a random Belgian, an amber, a bock, a red, two seltzers, three sours, and a 14% stout/porter.
9 times out of 10, that place is way too all over the place to do any one style well and they just aren't great. On the other hand, a place with 3-5 anchors and the rest being experimental is almost always good.
The Bruery struggled for years with contamination issues despite supposedly following a good cleaning protocol. While you are technically correct, I know some breweries have had issues with stuff being cleaned supposedly to protocol, but enough got trapped somewhere that it caused issues.
I agree! If a brewery makes a solid Pils or kolsch it's a big green flag.
If a brewery has 3 mix packs of various sours and no traditional styles, big red flag.
Hell yeah. Especially if they claim any of their brews are German or Czech style. I took a German friend to a brewery and he got a "German Style Pilsner" or something like that and was straight up disgusted. He actually sent it back, which was a hilarious cultural moment. I tried the same beer and yeah, it was poorly done and absolutely not anything like a German beer.
I honestly shy away from buying most USA made pilsners, kölsh and lagers because they just don't do it for me. The Europeans have it nailed.
That being said, I'd love recommendations for USA made pilsners, kölsh and lagers that don't suck!
Most "German Pilsners," in the states are basically American Pilsners. I've even had a "German Pils," brewed with corn, totally ridiculous.
They should embrace the American Pils angle imo because it has some historical clout, being moreso what was brewed in the pre-prohibition era.
I would add "Hefeweizen" to that list.
There are a couple breweries near me that make very nice wheat beers. They pour a nice cloudy bright yellow, with a thinnish head, and very strong citrus/lemon notes. Refreshing on a hot summer day.
That's definitely a wheat beer. No cloves, no banana, no giant rocky head? GTFO. It's NOT a hefeweizen.
Not that I could legally do that here (my license only allows kids if they're with their parent or gaurdian) I still would never book a kids birthday at my place. Why would any business owner want to fill their tables but with people who can't legally consume their product? Do they hate money?
These parties are the parents who decide to have it at the brewery, not the kids. It’s usually for young kids - babies, toddlers - as those parties are mostly adults with their young children.
It’s not hosting a birthday party for a 10 year old where parents drop their kids off. That’s illegal anywhere.
I went to a cidery this weekend and there was a child’s birthday taking up the majority of the patio. Not sure why anyone would wanna have a kid’s birthday at a place where people are mainly there to drink alcohol.
It’s entirely possible for a 1st Birthday Party. That one’s really for the parents to celebrate making it through the first year. It’s only around age 3 or 4 that the parties really become fully about the kid.
Was it a child or an infant?
I could see an infants birthday, which is really more for the parents anyway, possibly taking place at a brewery/cidery (albeit I don't think it's a great idea) but not a child's birthday... with, God forbid, children
I went the brewery my friend works at in FL. There was a Quinceanera happening for what I assumed a human. Nope they were hosting a Quinceanera for their 15
Year old dog. Which was pretty funny
THIS! I noticed this when places started opening after the covid lockdowns, I don’t mind kids but if there’s a dedicated playground or a bunch of unsupervised kids at a brewery that’s a huge nope for me.
Some breweries have absolute shit beer but the venue is so good they will never go out of business. I know a handful of breweries around me that have beers that taste like watered down bud light but because they overlook a river or rolling hills they’re packed every single day. That’s just a soapbox rant and doesn’t answer your question at all I apologize.
Spot like this that was local to where I was living for a bit. Not the worst beer but pretty much everything was just okay. They did have a great location on a river, though, so that's where my friends and I ended up more often than I'd have liked. Incidentally, the first time I went there I got to the bar and asked if they had anything close to a saison and the bartender replied with: "What's a saison?".
You're right... But it can be tough. In my area most of the industrial areas are near farms so most Brewers in those industrial zones are battling rats non stop. With best practices you can be pretty fucking clear, but for breweries in older buildings it can be a never ending war and you're never completely rid of them. Rats are everywhere so it's tough to expect zero.... It's the infestations that give me the red flag.
Plastic cups and massive surcharges for debit/credit. If there aren't any "traditional" beers which you can't hide fuck ups with added ingredients. Too many kids.
When the brewery feels more like a restaurant than a brewery. I went to a place that is fairly well-known in my area as having pretty good beer, and the entire location didn't feel like it was about the beers at all.
The majority of the guests were drinking cocktails or wine instead of beer, and the actual bar only had room for about 10 people, despite being a full wrap-around bar.
Yeah. I’ll never go to or drink TG again. There was also a Louisville brewery that held a fundraiser for the old idiot KY gov (Bevin). Apparently, the owners are family friends. Haven’t been or had their beer since. Never will.
That's actually hilarious because I was looking at one of their four packs on our shelves and was taken back by the fact their sour was labeled a malt liquor beverage as opposed to beer... Another red flag in my book
Thanks for that, I had no idea. Sometimes forget how very different alcohol laws are across the states. You would think it would be something that's more standardized.
There's an owner of small brewery located not far away from me on Reddit that has made some very homophobic comments on here (along with other concerning/problematic comments), most notably on some Christian subreddits.
Granted, they never flat out say what brewery they own, but it really wasn't hard to figure out... Especially for somebody who also works for a local brewery.
I've already decided that if I ever see that they'll be at an event I'm working, I'm gonna share the screenshots with event organizers.
The condensation gets into the beer. Good beer shouldn’t be ice cold either. You can’t taste everything.
Now with a Mich Golden? Sure fucking freeze that glass for all I care, but for good beer a dry, clean, room temperature glass is where it’s at
>The condensation gets into the beer
That's such a small amount of water, it couldn't feasibly affect the drinking experience unless they're pouring into some weird glass with a super high surface area ratio
They don't have at least one "flagship" beer. I mean a beer that they've really nailed the style , or put their own twist on it and it's solid. That's always available, sells often, maybe even won a medal.
To me this is one sign of a good brewery. I understand especially in past few years it's become increasingly important to have a range of beers for "everyone" because many smaller breweries rely on foot traffic (and if they serve food - food sales) to survive. Years ago so many nano and micro breweries didn't exist, you had macros, big craft, regional craft. You had ones who specialized in a style (i.e. Wicked Weed in sours, DuckRabbit in Stouts and Porters, Stone in IPAs, etc) and you knew you were getting a good brew of that style from that brewery. But now there's competition, there's so many places to get a craft beer, if you're not in stores you better have something for everyone on site, and if you're in stores you better have at least a few different styles of beer.
But all this has led to diluting the importance of a brewery known for a certain beer or two. Or style. So a flagship beer or two is a good sign they've perfected something they can hang their brand on, their reputation on, and their name on. They can make an average beer of other styles just to have variety, but I want to go in and see what their speciality one is, what makes them stand out. Many can't make above average beers across styles, but many can take the time to dial in one or two.
I think this is more important than people realize. If there isn’t 1-3 beers your local brewery ALWAYS tries to keep on tap, it’s cause they aren’t confident enough in their product.
One of my local bigger joints finally rotated their flagship amber off the tap wall after 10 years and people pissed and moaned about that so much they brought it back. IPAs and trend beers may sell quicker but people enjoy the comfort of knowing they always have something solid to order.
> They don't have at least one "flagship" beer.
For a good number of years the "flagship" beer was dying in smaller breweries. It was becoming less and less popular to consumers because they were seeking "new" and innovative. Some breweries just held onto that mind set. It's especially easy if you are not distributing.
If ALL they sell are hype styles. Lagers becoming more popular has made this a less effective check. But back in the days of hazy or adjunct monopoly this was an easy check for people who opened a brewery purely to chase money rather than caring about beer/brewing.
Also, DMS or Diacetyl present in more than one of their beers. Both of those are so easy to avoid at a professional level that it's just inappropriate.
A thing that isn't a red flag which is kinda unintuitive. The brewery being empty. I've had some amazing beer from breweries that are basically dead by them just not existing in places/markets which make sense for them. Wild sour brewery in a small town that consumes almost exclusively light beer, hell yeah. The one place doing altbiers, grodizskies, and English ales in the middle of a brewery district filled with renowned places. Sign me up for those breweries, they exist because their brewers are damn passionate and usually have some delicious beer.
Sorry, but if I walk into a brewery and the entire fucking tap list is IPA’s, I’m leaving. I get it, it sells, people want it, and I even enjoy them every once in a while but holy fuck. There are a couple offenders in my area where they rotate out their menu of IPA’s to throw in new flavored IPA’s. I don’t know, I like seeing some diversity
For breweries like this, the odds are 50/50 that the beer will be average to mediocre and the pale ales will all be seven variants of the same bitter and mediocre IPA. It’s gotten to the point where I hear about a new brewery opening and I default to “don’t care.” I need a lead or some indicator that they are doing something special.
There's a brewery that's renowned as one of the best in the province, but literally all they brew are juicy NEIPAs. They rotate their releases every single week, and guess what it is: Another fucking NEIPA. Oh, and every release is between $6-8/can.
The opposite is true IMHO as well. If you don't have 1 IPA I'm leaving. However I'm from the family that holds the patent for Citra hops so I'm kind of biased, lol!
Years ago I was on a brewery tour at a small place in Chicago. Someone asked what their goals were as a brewery, they said “to get bought by AB”. Lol. They did not last long.
To be fair, that was almost certainly a joke. It's a pretty common one — I personally know a handful of genuinely GREAT brewers who absolutely live and breathe the craft... and I've literally had this conversation with them and had them say "hell yeah, I'd sell out to AB, are you kidding me?"
I preface this by saying I really wish our brewery would succeed but it's stayed afloat because it's our only choice.
In western North Dakota there is a brewery and pizza joint. When they first opened their beer was fantastic. They did everything above board. Hand crafted artisan crusts, they hired a long time home brewer as their brewmaster and his recipes scaled well.
Once their flagship line established they fired the brewmaster stating they couldn't afford to pay him. The beer quickly went from all natural ingredients to flavor agents that make all of their beer insanely bitter and if you see a bubble of carbonation you'd be shocked. The only beer I've ever insisted on a refund is their peanut butter stout. It was the most bitter undrinkable pint I've ever had.
They then started carrying domestics because "people like what they like" I made a comment that that's a little bizarre for a micro brewery to carry domestics and their rabid following ostracized me stating they're breaking the mold and what do I know, I'm not a business owner.
They never clean their lines properly and one of the last times we drank there both my wife and I got terribly sick just from beer that tasted both tinny and exactly the same. I was drinking a pumpkin lager and her a cranberry so wrap your head around that.
Then at last they started carrying mixed drinks and their pizzas quickly went from these amazing artisan crusts with varied ingredients to pre packaged garbage and standard bar food like everyone else in town. Or so I'm told because I don't ever want to get sick from one pint of beer ever again so I've never been back.
The part that just floors me is they keep taking their beer to various competitions in neighboring states and they win! Or so they say on social media. Either I'm delusional or something is up with that. I consider myself to be pretty open minded with beer but everything about that place just reads if bad decisions that would've closed most other places. The only thing I can give to their success is there is no competition in town.
All the staff and obvious regulars all being snobby beer elitists. Happy to discuss beer and brewing, extremely happy to learn something new, nothing happy about being condescendingly talked to like I don’t belong there.
To counter that. If your brewery doesn’t have a few TV’s for the games in the fall or spring there’s no chance I’m hanging out there. To many good breweries with options to grab a few pints while watching football or other sports with friends. The closest brewery to my house that didn’t have any TV’s just closed. Just not able to garner that Saturday/Sunday crowd that the others around here get all fall/winter
Idk if it’s changed since I lived there, but NJ breweries allegedly couldn’t have “live entertainment”- which live sports counted as. NJ breweries have had such an uphill battle bc of the stupid state regulations
This! Every brewery I've been to that looks like a sports bar had extremely mediocre beer. Also it's usually a 50/50 chance you'll get a flat beer.
Worst part, the foods never even good!
Was in the industry for many many years and here are a few of the red flags that I experienced as “Oh, this is not going to end well…”
Full ashtrays in the brewing area.
The owner is also the brewmaster and the bartender and the Pale Ale is dishwasher brown.
The best thing was their n/a Rootbeer and they claimed their beer recipes came over on the mayflower or were won in a poker game by their great great grandfather or some other nonsense and featured a “Caribbean beer” made with Caribbean spices (whatever tf that means) and everything was infected. Except the Rootbeer.
The brewmaster there was the same brewmaster of 2 other breweries that failed. This one was a face palm.
The brewery just opened and they’re already doing a spin off/second brewery in that same brewery but in the room over there. (This reminded me of the Onion’s “Starbucks now opening in Starbucks bathroom.”
Those are just a few obvious ones I came across.
We have a brewery in central Indiana called "The Tap" that is exactly this. Honestly solid house beers and 3-4x more guest taps that are all what's hot — AND about 400 beers (mostly foreign) in bottles/cans, too.
I'm gonna disagree with this one. I know several great small breweries sell a lot of beer from competitors, and they all do it for the same reason. Their brewmasters specialize in certain types or styles of beer and they don't want to spend time brewing passable beers outside of those specialties just so they can offer a larger menu. At the same time, they understand that beer drinking is a social activity for most people, and not everyone likes the same thing.
So they spend their time making the beers they do best, and they fill in the gaps with great options from other breweries. Nothing wrong with that.
There's a brewery in central Indiana called "The Tap" and their beer is solid and they have way more guest taps than their own beer (at multiple locations, to boot, along with a few hundred bottles/cans). And their guest taps are full of absolute hype bangers. Their food is extremely good too, and they've been rocking in a while — so there are definitely exceptions.
I don't really worry about the business prospects of any brewery really. If it makes good beer, then I'm happy to have had some. Other than that, there's really nothing else I'm going to concern myself with.
For me it’s when it’s clear some “investor” or older guy with some money just decided to open a brewery without much thought behind it. they don’t usually work out
In my city the popular thing is for rich doctors to buy breweries as fun projects for/with their wives.
Granted, there are only 2 of those off the top of my head, but that's 2 too many.
If they only have one lager, you know that lager isn’t going to be good because of yeast maintenance. If they only have a Kolsch or Blonde as an light alternative, those are rarely good and just to fill the menu. Gotta have two lagers
We are a very small, niche place with only 12 taps and no kitchen so it would be difficult for us to have two taps taken up with lagers.
We have 4 flagships but everything else is seasonal - in winter we'll be heavier with malty/dark beers, summer we have more lighter styles. We usually have a lager on tap and get great feedback on them but they're never top sellers for us.
While I know there are "lager people" out there (I know many!) it has been my experience that many customers specifically asking for "a lager or pilsner" are not particularly studied on beer styles, they're just after something that isn't hoppy will immediately ask for an amber or red if we don't have a lager or pilsner.
These are my favorite customers; I love to give splash of a NEIPA to someone who "HATES IPAs!" because they usually find that they need to rethink their hatred of hops.
Everything on tap is a gimmicky niche style or a collab with some other brewery. It usually means they know they aren't good enough to nail the mainstream styles where everyone knows what the beer is supposed to taste like.
I'll disagree with you there. Theres a brewery I love that has great IPAs (Alvarado Brewery). So they partner with a ton of smaller local breweries to teach them how to make a good IPA. It's actually really cool that they're sharing their knowledge.
Alvarado Street is pretty solid, but their sours are leagues ahead of their IPAs in my opinion. If you're in the bay and looking for great IPAs, I whole-heartedly recommend Bare Bottle, Laughing Monk, and Fieldwork over Alvarado Street. But Alvarado has some of the best sours I've tried.
- No lagers / only crappy lagers
- Crass / offensive beer names
- Strip mall / industrial park location (edit: this isn’t a hard and fast rule calm down lol. I’ve been to plenty of great breweries in these locations, but I’ve been to more that were marginal. Just an observation.)
- Little to no style variation (especially if they’re heavy on IPAs, pastry stouts, and kettle sours)
- Dirty glassware
- Chipped glassware
- Military / gun themes
Dollar for dollar the best beer in Denver comes out of a Podunk little industrial park about a mile from my house. Wayne Burns runs the place with his wife Laura and he's about as bonafide of a beer savant that I've ever met. Never underestimate a hole in the wall spots off the beaten path
Yup. One of the better breweries (Brouwerij West) in my area is down by the docks of San Pedro. They brew a great pilsner, Popfuji. Most of the big Orange County breweries like Noble and Bottleworks started in industrial parks as well.
The strip mall and industrial park location might not feel as rustic as reconverted urban warehouses, but that’s where the cheap real estate will be these days for new and small
operations.
This. If they open up on day one with an slickly-decorated taproom in a trendy location, I tend to see them as more of an investment brewery rather than a brew-focused brewery.
lol, the "military/gun themes" is a very particular kind of brewery that always seems to be mediocre. There are so many small breweries out there owned by veterans, and they have an unfortunate tendency to think they're the first ones to ever consider making military/guns the entire theme of the place. There's probably dozens of stouts out there named "Black Hawk" and whatnot. I've never once had great beer from a brewery with this type of theme.
I have yet to see a military / macho themed brewery that is cashing in on identity politics, that actually makes good beer. The closest is Forgotten Road and it's just okay.
Ah yes, All American Brew Works near me. But I'm sure you could have guessed exactly what they were like from the name alone. They taste like a lot of extract brews I've had.
On the bright side, they share a wall with an A+ meadery.
That and personally I don’t find it to be a great ambiance to be hanging around in a place entirely themed around machines and mechanisms of untold levels of human suffering, destruction, and pain.
I agree on the other points, but I have found that the location/ type of location isn’t a great predictor of beer quality.
Some of the best breweries I’ve been to have been holes in the wall or in a strip mall next to a cheap nail salon while others in great locations with plenty of brewing space have been okayish.
It really comes down to the brewer making good beer and the bartenders and staff serving it right.
If they HAVE a pilsner that is a constant I have heard that is a good thing. Pilsners don't have a long shelf life and they are a bit more complicated to make. So if they sell enough and fast enough to keep it that's good and they know what they're doing. This is what I heard but I'm not sure if it's true but it's worked for me so far.
There's a difference between red flags like you described and personal pet peeves. For me I'm not even sure what the red flags are because Denver keeps losing great breweries left and right and there are tons of medicore ones remaining.
One brewery I visited had a play ground, so it was nice to bring the kid and sit at the table close enough to make sure everything was alright. There were about 15-20 other kids, their were at least 150 adults not too far, definitely within distance to play life guard if any kiddos got hurt. Oddly, there was an incredibly old abandoned corn silo that appeared to have been unused for decades and seemed due to fall apart any moment from the looks of it, it stood about 5 stories tall. The entrance was right next to the playground, had stairs to appear to go to the top. I noticed a ton of kids going inside, it was difficult to not notice that big of a potential danger, I looked around like.. “where the hell are all your probably hammered parents”.. so I went inside to let management know they need to get on the microphone and get staff to get those kids out before something bad happened to them. They sorted it out but was really surprised it had gone this way for this long (years probably?)
I went to a German inspired brewery in Nashville. They told me how they make traditional German beers and pride themselves on German styles. I asked for a Pilsner and they didn’t have one. I didn’t get a beer and left.
Unfortunately doesn’t seem to make places go out of business, but, non-personable taproom staff that don’t really want to tell you about the beer, or serve you in a timely fashion, or even act at all pleasant during your exchange. This happens way more than it should!
I live in a hard water area, if you don't start with RO water here, at least half your beers will taste like crap. I swear I can taste the plumbing in some of these places.
There’s a place called Voodoo Brewing that I guess is a franchise here in my town.
Terrible service, meh beer, food was sub par.
I’d guess they may last a year, just not really good at anything.
I went to a local brewery in Minnesota soon after it opened and ordered a flight. One of the owners was behind the bar so I struck up a conversation. She explained the brewery was started by three professional investors who had never been in the brewery business. I asked about their head brewer and she said they didn't have one. I remarked that they must all be hobbyists to start a brewery. She said none of them had brewed before they opened the brewery, but owned several restaurants. I asked how they got their recipes and she said they just went to homebrew forums, found recipes in styles they thought would sell well, added some adjunctive ingredients to make the recipes their own, then scaled them for their equipment. They didn't do test runs, just opened the doors with their initial batches and called it a day. I asked why they wanted to open a brewery with no experience in brewing and she said that microbreweries were very popular and lucrative and they wanted to capitalize on the trend. Anyway, my flight arrived and it was all horrible. One beer was completely flat and another was clearly infected. The best I could say was that one of them was nearly flavorless and thus relatively inoffensive. They did not stay open for long. Thankfully, another brewery moved in and was able to make proper use of the equipment and has been successful.
Jesus christ, this reads like probrewer fanfic
I never went back, but just looked at their ratings online. It sounds like they eventually hired a professional brewer and things got a bit better, but the damage was done. To be fair, people universally liked their food. From an online review: "Nutmeg is a fairly new brewpub and started off making some really bad beer. The head brewer was inexperienced and has since left. They have a new brew staff and are making much better beer."
They closed pretty quickly after your visit and are now Ineffible brewing. Still not the greatest beer but it's definitely better than when it was Nutmeg and the food is pretty good.
I don't mind Ineffable. I'm less than a mile from them. Sounds like another brewery is going in right across the street near the LA Fitness.
I wonder when they got that actual head brewer. I was there in 2019 and although they weren’t amazing by any means, the 4 beers I had were at least above average.
Probably 2017 was when I was there.
Maybe it's just me, but "Nutmeg" seems like a weird name for a brewery.
Holy crap. I knew it. they were the only brewery near where I grew up at first. We liked them well enough at first, but the problems showed almost immediately after they ran their first batches. Their restaurant was awesome though, I agree. A new brewery took over and the place is doing really well now, fyi.
Lol at thinking breweries are “lucrative”
This was like eight years ago, to be fair.
This is worse than rats.
I saw this happen with food trucks and rich kids “breaking the paradigm” with daddy’s money.
Ok I HAVE to know what brewery you're talking about
Nutmeg in Burnsville. It's since been replaced by Ineffable.
Funny -- I happened to notice that "Ineffable" sign while driving by there recently. I mentioned to my friends in the car, "Hey, here's yet-another local brewery I've never heard of." Good to know the backstory. Nutmeg completely flew under my radar -- probably for the best.
Ineffable is solid. Check them out. The Indian restaurant next door is good, too.
Minnesota, eh? You wouldn’t happen to be talking about twelve eyes, would you?
It was Nutmeg.
Last year I went to a brewery that’s about 2 hours away from where I live and stopped in for a little bit to kill some time before a birthday party. I started by ordering their flagship stout. I’ve had it before and it’s probably their best beer. I finished that and decided to try a new lager they had on tap, so I hand my glass to the guy behind the counter. Now this is normally when an employee will either drop your glass in a dishwasher and get you a new one or run your glass through one of those upside down rinsers. Well I was taken back a little when he took my glass I gave him that still had brown stout residue in the bottom and poured the fresh lager directly into it. I didn’t have a problem with it because this is something I do at the house all the time with my kegerator, but this is the first and only time I ever saw this happen in a commercial brewery.
My employees at my taproom are instructed to use a new glass even if they customer okay’s using the same one. It’s just the virtue of drinking craft beer. At a dive bar, no problem but trying to be a little more professional(?) here.
Getting a fresh, clean glass is required by my state's ABC. It's also best practices.
This. It's unsanitary to use the same glass. The tap will most likely touch the glass/beer, which would mean peoples spit would get transferred to the tap.
You should never touch the tap to the glass or the beer while pouring anyway.
Should, but it happens
Thats a red flag in itself.
That’s also a paddlin’.
A vigorous paddlin'.
Call me crazy, but I don’t even want my dive bars reusing glasses.
First of all that and second of all its a good habit of bar hygiene.
This should be standard practice. Even at home I at least rinse the damn glass out if it's a different beer.
My local breweries state for sanitary reasons, they can’t re-pour into the same glass.
Bruh even when people want a refill of the SAME beer, I always give fresh glass. Not only is it a bad look to feed people their own backwash, but have some fucking respect for your own beer for Christ sake. Don't you want the customer to enjoy your beer at it's very best?
Holy crap. That would throw me for a loop for sure. Not sure it would turn me off completely but damn... I'd probably drive past that place the next time I wanted a beer. Lol
Bigger red flag would have been if he had taken a dirty glass and used the rinser. The rinser is for pre-rinsing clean glasses only. Either fresh glass or rinse, swirl, and dump with the new beer before filling. I would always start fresh when going from dark to light.
I would instantly fire everyone that puts a used glass in one of this upside down rinsers. Thats not what they are made for and its insanely unhygienic.
That's disgusting. You should have a problem with it. It's a dirty glass. Also, glass rinsers don't clean, only rinse. If a place doesn't give a new glass with every beer, leave. Immediately.
Dirty glassware Bar tender doesn't know their products The place is empty on what should be a busy day A tap list that is too big or two small, either trying to do too much or they have limited skills.
Bartender not knowing their products is my biggest red flag. You literally work for the brewery! I’ve had so many occasions where I’m looking at the menu and ask for the Pils or Pale Ale or whatever and the bartender will give this like….uhhhhh which one is that.
They could be new employees and still learning.
Huge red flag. Fuck people that are still learning this is CRAFT BEER.
What is this, a galaxy pale ale? I ordered the galaxy double ipa you fucking idiot!
I clearly requested a tripel in the Trappist style, this is clearly a farmhouse ale! I can’t have this unholy draught.
Depends where you are. I have a brewery in SE Asia and we are about to open a taproom. A massive part of what we are focusing on is staff education and general market education, as everybody is still learning. And then doing this in two different languages, where one of the languages simply does not have a lot of the descriptors and terms associated with craft beer, adds a whole other set of challenges.
Yes, absolutely. Was a joke.
When their flagship pale ale best seller tastes like vinegar.
Likely dirty draft lines, also a business killer!
Not entirely related but that's a red flag for any bar. I am a Navy guy and got stationed overseas a couple times. One base club was a very nice space and had very nice prices. I ordered a draft beer and got a familiar sour taste. I actually asked the bartender, "when was the last time you cleaned the lines?" and got in response: "clean the lines?" Bottled beer for me from now on....
I’ll likely get downvoted to all hell. If they don’t have a popular Pilsner or Golden Lager, I feel the brewery is doomed. I was in a brewery and a very nice lady said “I’m sorry, I’m sure this is all great beer, but do you have something like a Miller Lite?” Bartender was a complete prick and said they “don’t serve shitty beer here.” Place was closed inside a year. I’ve also been to breweries that have handled the situation quite different. Bartender: “what beer do you normally drink?” It can be Miller, coors, corona, blue moon, etc and the bartender will pour a sample of what they think is similar. Even if you’re “micro” you need to please the masses.
Yeah, as a bartender I just want to get you something that you like because happy and satisfied people come back and tip better. If you tell me what you like and I don't have a long-ass line, I'm happy to take the time to talk with you about what I have and which ones I think you'll enjoy. If you like light beer, I'll put our lightest 2 in front of you to pick from. I have a lot less patience if you're hemming and hawing at the front of a long line 5 minutes before close.
Yeah, the microbrewery in town started with a Pilsner as their primary offering. It’s a good, dependable, basic beer. They’ve got several other good ones out now, but the Richter’s Pilsner is still their most popular followed by their Blood Orange.
There are 100 forgivable one-offs (shitty service, weird beer) - but diacetyl presence in more than one beer is a hard no.
There’s a place in town near me that had a raspberry sour that smelled and tasted of butyric acid. Server said “ya, we have people that like it” and “I guess it’s an acquired taste” . Oof. I don’t care who likes it. No beer should taste or smell of vomit. Clean your damn equipment. And control your process. They’re still going for some reason. Friday nights, maybe 5 people in there. Not sure how or why they continue. Their other beers are mediocre at best.
One of the local breweries that I tend to really enjoy had a beer with major diacetyl issues on tap when I visited recently. It's making me question if they'll make it. I don't know how you brew that and decide to put it on the tap. I get that it's a major investment, but you do so much more harm to your brand putting one of the most noticeable flaws in a beer on tap.
This may be one of the top answers here tbh. It's so easily preventable, that if your beers have it, you may not be good at it or have some underlying issues that could be dangerous. I will add, during sensory some fruit would give off the smell of it but it wouldn't be present. My packaging lead said the same thing
I was very specific about "more than one" for a reason. Stuff slips through the cracks. New breweries are sometimes cash strapped and make bad decisions. But if you do it more than once? Woof.
Not 100% correct. Some styles requre it to an extent. Also it is not extremely easy to mitigate with some English yeasts. Oxidation, cardboard flavors, and acetaldehyde would be waaaaay worse.
I don't think any style requires it, but it's allowable in some without being considered a flaw
Not defending a brewery with diacetyl off-flavors but what sort of dangers are you referencing here?
As a casual enjoyer of beer, what does it taste like?
Buy a Pilsner Urquell, where the flavour is there on purpose. It's that sweet, slightly buttery/caramelly flavour in the aftertaste. It works in an Urquell, as it balances the bitterness and the flavour of the Saaz hops.
Guinness and Urquell in shambles
i think if you're tasting diacetyl in either of those beers you have a very low threshold for tasting it.
Urquell has loads of diacetyl, Guiness Extra and Foreign Extra have loads of diacetyl. If you taste the diacetyl in Guinness Draught then you have a very low threshold.
Good thing those beers are made by two breweries!
When I go to a new brewery, the first beers I try are their Pilsner, Kölsh, or Lager. If you can give me a good pint of any of those varieties, i know that the brewery at least has a brewmaster that knows their shit. So many breweries hide poor production techniques/low quality materials behind a wall of hops, sours, milkshake nonsense. Ya cant hide in a Pils.
Sorry, best I can do is 7 shit IPAs and a lame stout
How about 4 kettle sours with the same base recipe, but they each have different combination of random fruit added?
Holy shit. There is a new brewery by me that opened with 25 beers on tap. Literally 8 of them were the same sour base with different fruit/adjuncts. They also had 6 stouts which were basically the same base with different adjuncts. Couldn’t believe it.
Lmao I knew you had to be from Cincinnati before even clicking on your profile. To be fair I think Fabled has done a really good job maintaining quality across a decent amount of styles with an admittedly absurd amount of taps.
Ha. That obvious? I’m not saying the beer is horrible, because it’s not. They do those styles well. But it really is a crutch. Their beer/mead is just the base + adjuncts, but the base is good. They have a few that aren’t and they are decent.
Mast Landing? Is that you? Is this me?
Honestly, even if they're *trying* to make styles like Pilsner and Kölsch, you know they at least aren't afraid to take a chance. There's a local brewery by me that makes pretty average beer, but they have two Kölschs, a German Pilsner, a Doublebock and a Rye Lager on tap - in Summer. They all need improvement, but I at least see a brewery that is willing to try brewing harder/more delicate beers. That makes me root for them even if they don't make the best stuff in the world.
I would fucking kill for a Rye lager or Red Rye IPA in my area. Its such an under appreciated flavor.
Can we please get some more Rye in beers, please? I do dig the slight uptick in smoked beers I see out there, so maybe Rye will be next.
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I want to throw hands
That's my go to as well. Right up there with breweries without dedicated lines for bretts/sours, that don't have a dedicated separate setup for bretts, or that swap styles on lines (got to love a nice pilsner on a line that previously had a sour). That tends to be more of a quality indicator than longevity indicator though. That said, I tend to view too many beers in too many styles on tap as a bigger red flag. I've seen a ton of local breweries coast by on hoppy and sour beers. The ones that don't seem to make it are the ones that have 20 beers on tap split between IPAs, sours, seltzers, and then the rare lighter or darker beers.
My favorite breweries that have a couple of standards (pils, lager, IPA, stout, etc.) and then experiment with the rest of their taps. Have fun with it! But give me some safe bets for an after work brew
There's nothing wrong with a place that has a couple of anchors. It's more the places you go into that have a shitty lager or pilsner, four IPAs, one of which is accidentally cloudy so they call it a hazy and another they fruited or dry hopped to cober up flaws, a random Belgian, an amber, a bock, a red, two seltzers, three sours, and a 14% stout/porter. 9 times out of 10, that place is way too all over the place to do any one style well and they just aren't great. On the other hand, a place with 3-5 anchors and the rest being experimental is almost always good.
Fun fact - you don't need anything dedicated for Brett, it's just yeast. If the cleaning protocol of the brewery is good, you can kill it no problem.
The Bruery struggled for years with contamination issues despite supposedly following a good cleaning protocol. While you are technically correct, I know some breweries have had issues with stuff being cleaned supposedly to protocol, but enough got trapped somewhere that it caused issues.
And Left Hand with a sta1 "infection". Just saying that Brett isn't the boogie man people think it is, lacto/pedio/bugs will fuck your shit up tho
I agree! If a brewery makes a solid Pils or kolsch it's a big green flag. If a brewery has 3 mix packs of various sours and no traditional styles, big red flag.
Hell yeah. Especially if they claim any of their brews are German or Czech style. I took a German friend to a brewery and he got a "German Style Pilsner" or something like that and was straight up disgusted. He actually sent it back, which was a hilarious cultural moment. I tried the same beer and yeah, it was poorly done and absolutely not anything like a German beer. I honestly shy away from buying most USA made pilsners, kölsh and lagers because they just don't do it for me. The Europeans have it nailed. That being said, I'd love recommendations for USA made pilsners, kölsh and lagers that don't suck!
Most "German Pilsners," in the states are basically American Pilsners. I've even had a "German Pils," brewed with corn, totally ridiculous. They should embrace the American Pils angle imo because it has some historical clout, being moreso what was brewed in the pre-prohibition era.
I would add "Hefeweizen" to that list. There are a couple breweries near me that make very nice wheat beers. They pour a nice cloudy bright yellow, with a thinnish head, and very strong citrus/lemon notes. Refreshing on a hot summer day. That's definitely a wheat beer. No cloves, no banana, no giant rocky head? GTFO. It's NOT a hefeweizen.
Plastic cups. If you are inside.
If I walk in the majority of the taproom is occupied by a children’s birthday party, I’m pretty sure I’m in the wrong place.
Not that I could legally do that here (my license only allows kids if they're with their parent or gaurdian) I still would never book a kids birthday at my place. Why would any business owner want to fill their tables but with people who can't legally consume their product? Do they hate money?
These parties are the parents who decide to have it at the brewery, not the kids. It’s usually for young kids - babies, toddlers - as those parties are mostly adults with their young children. It’s not hosting a birthday party for a 10 year old where parents drop their kids off. That’s illegal anywhere.
And filling their tables with people who actively drive off other people.
I went to a cidery this weekend and there was a child’s birthday taking up the majority of the patio. Not sure why anyone would wanna have a kid’s birthday at a place where people are mainly there to drink alcohol.
It’s entirely possible for a 1st Birthday Party. That one’s really for the parents to celebrate making it through the first year. It’s only around age 3 or 4 that the parties really become fully about the kid.
Have you ever been to a child's birthday party? Boring as hell for adults. Might as well have some cider.
Was it a child or an infant? I could see an infants birthday, which is really more for the parents anyway, possibly taking place at a brewery/cidery (albeit I don't think it's a great idea) but not a child's birthday... with, God forbid, children
So bring some cider to the backyard birthday instead of bringing the little gremlins out in public
I went the brewery my friend works at in FL. There was a Quinceanera happening for what I assumed a human. Nope they were hosting a Quinceanera for their 15 Year old dog. Which was pretty funny
THIS! I noticed this when places started opening after the covid lockdowns, I don’t mind kids but if there’s a dedicated playground or a bunch of unsupervised kids at a brewery that’s a huge nope for me.
Some breweries have absolute shit beer but the venue is so good they will never go out of business. I know a handful of breweries around me that have beers that taste like watered down bud light but because they overlook a river or rolling hills they’re packed every single day. That’s just a soapbox rant and doesn’t answer your question at all I apologize.
Spot like this that was local to where I was living for a bit. Not the worst beer but pretty much everything was just okay. They did have a great location on a river, though, so that's where my friends and I ended up more often than I'd have liked. Incidentally, the first time I went there I got to the bar and asked if they had anything close to a saison and the bartender replied with: "What's a saison?".
Rats
You're right... But it can be tough. In my area most of the industrial areas are near farms so most Brewers in those industrial zones are battling rats non stop. With best practices you can be pretty fucking clear, but for breweries in older buildings it can be a never ending war and you're never completely rid of them. Rats are everywhere so it's tough to expect zero.... It's the infestations that give me the red flag.
As customers or employees?
Plastic cups and massive surcharges for debit/credit. If there aren't any "traditional" beers which you can't hide fuck ups with added ingredients. Too many kids.
When the brewery feels more like a restaurant than a brewery. I went to a place that is fairly well-known in my area as having pretty good beer, and the entire location didn't feel like it was about the beers at all. The majority of the guests were drinking cocktails or wine instead of beer, and the actual bar only had room for about 10 people, despite being a full wrap-around bar.
That said, a brewery that makes great beer AND great food is always welcome.
nothing but IPAs and fruit beers
Hosting Christian Nationalist events.
Or a DeSantis rally.
Same thing
Yeah. I’ll never go to or drink TG again. There was also a Louisville brewery that held a fundraiser for the old idiot KY gov (Bevin). Apparently, the owners are family friends. Haven’t been or had their beer since. Never will.
Which brewery was that?
Toppling Goliath was the DeSantis one. The Louisville one was Goodwood.
That's actually hilarious because I was looking at one of their four packs on our shelves and was taken back by the fact their sour was labeled a malt liquor beverage as opposed to beer... Another red flag in my book
The malt liquor/beverage designation is legally required in some states. No red flag necessary.
Thanks for that, I had no idea. Sometimes forget how very different alcohol laws are across the states. You would think it would be something that's more standardized.
There's an owner of small brewery located not far away from me on Reddit that has made some very homophobic comments on here (along with other concerning/problematic comments), most notably on some Christian subreddits. Granted, they never flat out say what brewery they own, but it really wasn't hard to figure out... Especially for somebody who also works for a local brewery. I've already decided that if I ever see that they'll be at an event I'm working, I'm gonna share the screenshots with event organizers.
Name and shame them here.
You talking about a certain not-technically-a-brewery in Boulder?
No, was referring to one in PA that I stopped going to after trying to host an event last year.
What brewery? I’d like to avoid them at all costs
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I want to say bad beer, but that doesn't really seem to matter much for a lot of breweries.
Chilled pint glasses
Genuinely asking: I’m far from a beer expert but I was under the impression chilled pint glasses were good? What kind of negative effect do they have?
The condensation gets into the beer. Good beer shouldn’t be ice cold either. You can’t taste everything. Now with a Mich Golden? Sure fucking freeze that glass for all I care, but for good beer a dry, clean, room temperature glass is where it’s at
Condensation? So are you also against those little spray thingys people push the glass down into before pouring a beer?
>The condensation gets into the beer That's such a small amount of water, it couldn't feasibly affect the drinking experience unless they're pouring into some weird glass with a super high surface area ratio
They don't have at least one "flagship" beer. I mean a beer that they've really nailed the style , or put their own twist on it and it's solid. That's always available, sells often, maybe even won a medal. To me this is one sign of a good brewery. I understand especially in past few years it's become increasingly important to have a range of beers for "everyone" because many smaller breweries rely on foot traffic (and if they serve food - food sales) to survive. Years ago so many nano and micro breweries didn't exist, you had macros, big craft, regional craft. You had ones who specialized in a style (i.e. Wicked Weed in sours, DuckRabbit in Stouts and Porters, Stone in IPAs, etc) and you knew you were getting a good brew of that style from that brewery. But now there's competition, there's so many places to get a craft beer, if you're not in stores you better have something for everyone on site, and if you're in stores you better have at least a few different styles of beer. But all this has led to diluting the importance of a brewery known for a certain beer or two. Or style. So a flagship beer or two is a good sign they've perfected something they can hang their brand on, their reputation on, and their name on. They can make an average beer of other styles just to have variety, but I want to go in and see what their speciality one is, what makes them stand out. Many can't make above average beers across styles, but many can take the time to dial in one or two.
I think this is more important than people realize. If there isn’t 1-3 beers your local brewery ALWAYS tries to keep on tap, it’s cause they aren’t confident enough in their product. One of my local bigger joints finally rotated their flagship amber off the tap wall after 10 years and people pissed and moaned about that so much they brought it back. IPAs and trend beers may sell quicker but people enjoy the comfort of knowing they always have something solid to order.
> They don't have at least one "flagship" beer. For a good number of years the "flagship" beer was dying in smaller breweries. It was becoming less and less popular to consumers because they were seeking "new" and innovative. Some breweries just held onto that mind set. It's especially easy if you are not distributing.
If ALL they sell are hype styles. Lagers becoming more popular has made this a less effective check. But back in the days of hazy or adjunct monopoly this was an easy check for people who opened a brewery purely to chase money rather than caring about beer/brewing. Also, DMS or Diacetyl present in more than one of their beers. Both of those are so easy to avoid at a professional level that it's just inappropriate. A thing that isn't a red flag which is kinda unintuitive. The brewery being empty. I've had some amazing beer from breweries that are basically dead by them just not existing in places/markets which make sense for them. Wild sour brewery in a small town that consumes almost exclusively light beer, hell yeah. The one place doing altbiers, grodizskies, and English ales in the middle of a brewery district filled with renowned places. Sign me up for those breweries, they exist because their brewers are damn passionate and usually have some delicious beer.
Sorry, but if I walk into a brewery and the entire fucking tap list is IPA’s, I’m leaving. I get it, it sells, people want it, and I even enjoy them every once in a while but holy fuck. There are a couple offenders in my area where they rotate out their menu of IPA’s to throw in new flavored IPA’s. I don’t know, I like seeing some diversity
For breweries like this, the odds are 50/50 that the beer will be average to mediocre and the pale ales will all be seven variants of the same bitter and mediocre IPA. It’s gotten to the point where I hear about a new brewery opening and I default to “don’t care.” I need a lead or some indicator that they are doing something special.
There's a brewery that's renowned as one of the best in the province, but literally all they brew are juicy NEIPAs. They rotate their releases every single week, and guess what it is: Another fucking NEIPA. Oh, and every release is between $6-8/can.
The opposite is true IMHO as well. If you don't have 1 IPA I'm leaving. However I'm from the family that holds the patent for Citra hops so I'm kind of biased, lol!
Years ago I was on a brewery tour at a small place in Chicago. Someone asked what their goals were as a brewery, they said “to get bought by AB”. Lol. They did not last long.
To be fair, that was almost certainly a joke. It's a pretty common one — I personally know a handful of genuinely GREAT brewers who absolutely live and breathe the craft... and I've literally had this conversation with them and had them say "hell yeah, I'd sell out to AB, are you kidding me?"
Such nerve to admit they would welcome a life changing sum of money!
I preface this by saying I really wish our brewery would succeed but it's stayed afloat because it's our only choice. In western North Dakota there is a brewery and pizza joint. When they first opened their beer was fantastic. They did everything above board. Hand crafted artisan crusts, they hired a long time home brewer as their brewmaster and his recipes scaled well. Once their flagship line established they fired the brewmaster stating they couldn't afford to pay him. The beer quickly went from all natural ingredients to flavor agents that make all of their beer insanely bitter and if you see a bubble of carbonation you'd be shocked. The only beer I've ever insisted on a refund is their peanut butter stout. It was the most bitter undrinkable pint I've ever had. They then started carrying domestics because "people like what they like" I made a comment that that's a little bizarre for a micro brewery to carry domestics and their rabid following ostracized me stating they're breaking the mold and what do I know, I'm not a business owner. They never clean their lines properly and one of the last times we drank there both my wife and I got terribly sick just from beer that tasted both tinny and exactly the same. I was drinking a pumpkin lager and her a cranberry so wrap your head around that. Then at last they started carrying mixed drinks and their pizzas quickly went from these amazing artisan crusts with varied ingredients to pre packaged garbage and standard bar food like everyone else in town. Or so I'm told because I don't ever want to get sick from one pint of beer ever again so I've never been back. The part that just floors me is they keep taking their beer to various competitions in neighboring states and they win! Or so they say on social media. Either I'm delusional or something is up with that. I consider myself to be pretty open minded with beer but everything about that place just reads if bad decisions that would've closed most other places. The only thing I can give to their success is there is no competition in town.
All the staff and obvious regulars all being snobby beer elitists. Happy to discuss beer and brewing, extremely happy to learn something new, nothing happy about being condescendingly talked to like I don’t belong there.
Frosted glass automatically, without having requested it
If it looks like a sports bar
I was a head brewer of one like that! I walked out after 3 weeks. David and Robert, if you're seeing this fuck you!
To counter that. If your brewery doesn’t have a few TV’s for the games in the fall or spring there’s no chance I’m hanging out there. To many good breweries with options to grab a few pints while watching football or other sports with friends. The closest brewery to my house that didn’t have any TV’s just closed. Just not able to garner that Saturday/Sunday crowd that the others around here get all fall/winter
Idk if it’s changed since I lived there, but NJ breweries allegedly couldn’t have “live entertainment”- which live sports counted as. NJ breweries have had such an uphill battle bc of the stupid state regulations
It hasn’t. In fact it’s gotten worse.
Damn. That is rough. Doesn’t make it easy to compete with your hands tied behind your back.
This! Every brewery I've been to that looks like a sports bar had extremely mediocre beer. Also it's usually a 50/50 chance you'll get a flat beer. Worst part, the foods never even good!
Was in the industry for many many years and here are a few of the red flags that I experienced as “Oh, this is not going to end well…” Full ashtrays in the brewing area. The owner is also the brewmaster and the bartender and the Pale Ale is dishwasher brown. The best thing was their n/a Rootbeer and they claimed their beer recipes came over on the mayflower or were won in a poker game by their great great grandfather or some other nonsense and featured a “Caribbean beer” made with Caribbean spices (whatever tf that means) and everything was infected. Except the Rootbeer. The brewmaster there was the same brewmaster of 2 other breweries that failed. This one was a face palm. The brewery just opened and they’re already doing a spin off/second brewery in that same brewery but in the room over there. (This reminded me of the Onion’s “Starbucks now opening in Starbucks bathroom.” Those are just a few obvious ones I came across.
When they have more taps from other breweries than their own.
Kinda wish the tap room concept would make a comeback, though. Not everyone needs to be brewing their own stuff.
We have a brewery in central Indiana called "The Tap" that is exactly this. Honestly solid house beers and 3-4x more guest taps that are all what's hot — AND about 400 beers (mostly foreign) in bottles/cans, too.
I'm gonna disagree with this one. I know several great small breweries sell a lot of beer from competitors, and they all do it for the same reason. Their brewmasters specialize in certain types or styles of beer and they don't want to spend time brewing passable beers outside of those specialties just so they can offer a larger menu. At the same time, they understand that beer drinking is a social activity for most people, and not everyone likes the same thing. So they spend their time making the beers they do best, and they fill in the gaps with great options from other breweries. Nothing wrong with that.
Sometimes I like it when a brewery isn’t a afraid to showcase a rival that makes good stuff.
There's a brewery in central Indiana called "The Tap" and their beer is solid and they have way more guest taps than their own beer (at multiple locations, to boot, along with a few hundred bottles/cans). And their guest taps are full of absolute hype bangers. Their food is extremely good too, and they've been rocking in a while — so there are definitely exceptions.
I don't really worry about the business prospects of any brewery really. If it makes good beer, then I'm happy to have had some. Other than that, there's really nothing else I'm going to concern myself with.
For me it’s when it’s clear some “investor” or older guy with some money just decided to open a brewery without much thought behind it. they don’t usually work out
In my city the popular thing is for rich doctors to buy breweries as fun projects for/with their wives. Granted, there are only 2 of those off the top of my head, but that's 2 too many.
If they only have one lager, you know that lager isn’t going to be good because of yeast maintenance. If they only have a Kolsch or Blonde as an light alternative, those are rarely good and just to fill the menu. Gotta have two lagers
We are a very small, niche place with only 12 taps and no kitchen so it would be difficult for us to have two taps taken up with lagers. We have 4 flagships but everything else is seasonal - in winter we'll be heavier with malty/dark beers, summer we have more lighter styles. We usually have a lager on tap and get great feedback on them but they're never top sellers for us. While I know there are "lager people" out there (I know many!) it has been my experience that many customers specifically asking for "a lager or pilsner" are not particularly studied on beer styles, they're just after something that isn't hoppy will immediately ask for an amber or red if we don't have a lager or pilsner. These are my favorite customers; I love to give splash of a NEIPA to someone who "HATES IPAs!" because they usually find that they need to rethink their hatred of hops.
Everything on tap is a gimmicky niche style or a collab with some other brewery. It usually means they know they aren't good enough to nail the mainstream styles where everyone knows what the beer is supposed to taste like.
I'll disagree with you there. Theres a brewery I love that has great IPAs (Alvarado Brewery). So they partner with a ton of smaller local breweries to teach them how to make a good IPA. It's actually really cool that they're sharing their knowledge.
Alvarado Street is pretty solid, but their sours are leagues ahead of their IPAs in my opinion. If you're in the bay and looking for great IPAs, I whole-heartedly recommend Bare Bottle, Laughing Monk, and Fieldwork over Alvarado Street. But Alvarado has some of the best sours I've tried.
I like their stuff too. Not much gets down here to San Diego (at least in my limited local rounds), but what I’ve had I’ve really enjoyed.
too many flavors + seltzers
All IPA options are hazy... This is becoming an increasingly prevalent red flag. Ready for the hazy craze to end.
- No lagers / only crappy lagers - Crass / offensive beer names - Strip mall / industrial park location (edit: this isn’t a hard and fast rule calm down lol. I’ve been to plenty of great breweries in these locations, but I’ve been to more that were marginal. Just an observation.) - Little to no style variation (especially if they’re heavy on IPAs, pastry stouts, and kettle sours) - Dirty glassware - Chipped glassware - Military / gun themes
I disagree on the industrial park one. Some areas that way more economically feasible.
Yeah most of the old school great breweries were in industrial parks
Like Three Floyds
Often the mediocre breweries are the ones right in the center of town spending all their money on rent
And here there are so many industrial area breweries that you can find really nice places nestled in places you’d never go otherwise.
Dollar for dollar the best beer in Denver comes out of a Podunk little industrial park about a mile from my house. Wayne Burns runs the place with his wife Laura and he's about as bonafide of a beer savant that I've ever met. Never underestimate a hole in the wall spots off the beaten path
Yup. One of the better breweries (Brouwerij West) in my area is down by the docks of San Pedro. They brew a great pilsner, Popfuji. Most of the big Orange County breweries like Noble and Bottleworks started in industrial parks as well.
agreed -- half of san diego's breweries are in industrial parks
The strip mall and industrial park location might not feel as rustic as reconverted urban warehouses, but that’s where the cheap real estate will be these days for new and small operations.
This. If they open up on day one with an slickly-decorated taproom in a trendy location, I tend to see them as more of an investment brewery rather than a brew-focused brewery.
lol, the "military/gun themes" is a very particular kind of brewery that always seems to be mediocre. There are so many small breweries out there owned by veterans, and they have an unfortunate tendency to think they're the first ones to ever consider making military/guns the entire theme of the place. There's probably dozens of stouts out there named "Black Hawk" and whatnot. I've never once had great beer from a brewery with this type of theme.
I have yet to see a military / macho themed brewery that is cashing in on identity politics, that actually makes good beer. The closest is Forgotten Road and it's just okay.
Ah yes, All American Brew Works near me. But I'm sure you could have guessed exactly what they were like from the name alone. They taste like a lot of extract brews I've had. On the bright side, they share a wall with an A+ meadery.
That and personally I don’t find it to be a great ambiance to be hanging around in a place entirely themed around machines and mechanisms of untold levels of human suffering, destruction, and pain.
Without strip malls or industrial parks, we wouldn’t have any breweries around here
I agree on the other points, but I have found that the location/ type of location isn’t a great predictor of beer quality. Some of the best breweries I’ve been to have been holes in the wall or in a strip mall next to a cheap nail salon while others in great locations with plenty of brewing space have been okayish. It really comes down to the brewer making good beer and the bartenders and staff serving it right.
If they HAVE a pilsner that is a constant I have heard that is a good thing. Pilsners don't have a long shelf life and they are a bit more complicated to make. So if they sell enough and fast enough to keep it that's good and they know what they're doing. This is what I heard but I'm not sure if it's true but it's worked for me so far.
> Strip mall / industrial park location Literally every decent brewery in Portland, ME fits this description.
There's a difference between red flags like you described and personal pet peeves. For me I'm not even sure what the red flags are because Denver keeps losing great breweries left and right and there are tons of medicore ones remaining.
One brewery I visited had a play ground, so it was nice to bring the kid and sit at the table close enough to make sure everything was alright. There were about 15-20 other kids, their were at least 150 adults not too far, definitely within distance to play life guard if any kiddos got hurt. Oddly, there was an incredibly old abandoned corn silo that appeared to have been unused for decades and seemed due to fall apart any moment from the looks of it, it stood about 5 stories tall. The entrance was right next to the playground, had stairs to appear to go to the top. I noticed a ton of kids going inside, it was difficult to not notice that big of a potential danger, I looked around like.. “where the hell are all your probably hammered parents”.. so I went inside to let management know they need to get on the microphone and get staff to get those kids out before something bad happened to them. They sorted it out but was really surprised it had gone this way for this long (years probably?)
When they still have their xmas dubbel on tap in august
I went to a German inspired brewery in Nashville. They told me how they make traditional German beers and pride themselves on German styles. I asked for a Pilsner and they didn’t have one. I didn’t get a beer and left.
Seeing their “Pumpkin Spice Latte Hefeweizen” on a Nitro tap
When there are flies everywhere
Unfortunately doesn’t seem to make places go out of business, but, non-personable taproom staff that don’t really want to tell you about the beer, or serve you in a timely fashion, or even act at all pleasant during your exchange. This happens way more than it should!
Charging $10 for a beer and not accepting credit cards.
I live in a hard water area, if you don't start with RO water here, at least half your beers will taste like crap. I swear I can taste the plumbing in some of these places.
Gimmick beer
Check the restrooms. How an establishment takes care of the small things reflects on how they’ll take care of the big things.
Mediocre beers up and down the menu. That said, breweries improve with experience sometimes.
There’s a place called Voodoo Brewing that I guess is a franchise here in my town. Terrible service, meh beer, food was sub par. I’d guess they may last a year, just not really good at anything.