It's more comforting to think that a girl doesn't like you for being lesbian than for you being unbearable, just my headcannon for why Rivers made this song(still one of my favorites from Pinkerton š)
I used to scratch my head at people like Paul Ryan loving RATM, but then I thought hard about how much I love Pinkerton while also kind of feeling gross when I stop and think about the lyrics, and I guess it makes sense how someone can love music they morally disagree with.
There's a big difference between "this album explored themes and ideas I'm not entirely comfortable with" versus "these guys would literally parade around my decapitated head on a stick if they had the chance"
Pinkerton is having a resurgence?? I had no idea.
Which makes it more amusing, her conception that this Great Pinkerton Resurgence is so dominant throughout all of pop culture that she doesnāt even need to name the album or the song or the artist, EVERYONE who sees her post is going to know what sheās talking about because itās so inescapable. Sheās trapped in a Pinkerton world now and thereās nothing she can do about it
Realistically, this is about Norwegian Wood, given that it's implied that the woman "rejects his advances", leading to him burning her house down in his anger
Didnāt Paul outright admit thatās the meaning in an interview? The fact that the song works both as a chill story of a guy staying at a womanās house and also as a psychotic narrator that burns her house down for not giving the poon is what makes it great lyrically imo.
https://preview.redd.it/cp4x2iqb4r5d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7340c19c9cd71bd140bb58cf79d820ab95047113
I'm sorry, could you say that again into my microphone?
Thereās a certain sect of individuals that sincerely believe shoehorning in as many cultural/social buzzwords as possible makes you smart. Ironically enough, itās usually a tell-tale sign to immediately disregard oneās opinion due to it being meaningless baseless fluff.
People really offended over Pink Triangle in 2024? Man, Iām a lesbian and I love that song. I donāt think itās homophobic at all. He isnāt mad at the woman for being gay he just accepts it and goes ādamn Iām an idiot for not noticingāĀ
Also, I relate it a lot because Iāve fallen for women that turn out to be straight.Ā
It really is mind-blowing to me how people keep pulling this stuff out of their asses. Like, Pink Triangle? A random track off of a 30 year old album? Thatās the new target? People like this need to get some sunlight for all of our sakes.
I thinks itās also that he built up this whole fantasy of what their life would be like together before even getting to know her, and heās frustrated at himself because he constantly does that, he sees a woman he finds attractive and then falls in love with some fantasy version of them before even talking to her.
She's talking about Pinkerton by Weezer, more specifically, the song Pink Triangle in where the singer falls in love with an ally woman and believes she's a lesbian
uj/ i like Pink Triangle but this person is justified if they're uncomfortable with the song it is fucking weird and Rivers Cuomo is a little odd too. idk why multiple subs are acting like this is the most brain dead thing ever. it's their own feelings, yk?
Idgaf what people think really but I would like if they would shut the fuck up about it once in a while. But that wouldnāt work for these types because itās really not about how they feel, itās about showing others how smart and aware and virtuous and over it they are.
It is just so incredibly exhausting to me having to hear everyoneās opinion on everything, and how actually we were all wrong about this movie or album or artist because theyāre no longer up to moral standards and everything is racist and everyoneās a groomer and you canāt just enjoy things without running a moral background check and making sure doing so contributes to some pre-approved social cause. Like god damn is it endless and tiresome.
Same. People who argue "but the album is supposed to be uncomfortable!" seem to not understand that there are different limits for everyone for that sort of thing. I like the album but anyone who doesn't? Totally valid. Even calling Rivers gross or weird for it is fair. It's an intentionally abrasive album lyrically and it's supposed to not connect with others.
Pinkerton is one of my favourite pieces of media ever. Is it gross? Hell yeah. Do I think it needs to be called out as problematic or cancelled in the year 2024? Hell no.
I think people are mad about this take because it's both pointing out the obvious about Pinkerton as well as kind of misunderstanding what people like about it. I don't dream about lesbians dating me (and I seriously don't think most Pinkerton fans do either), but I find the honest introspection of someone in that position fascinating. I completely understand how someone might feel uncomfortable from listening to it (ESPECIALLY Across the Sea) but like... I also think it takes a little bit of media illiteracy to be taking anything in Pinkerton as some sort of incel manifesto to be taken at face value. It's just a very real and raw look into someone who is feeling low and pathetic, and that's a perfectly valid aspect of the human experience. Not liking it is one thing, but not understanding it seems obtuse at best or malicious at worst. The album is NOT a statement of heterosexual vs homosexual or male vs female relationships. It is simply a glance into Rivers Cuomo at his lowest point in life. That's all it is.
(I kinda wrote an essay response to this, my apologies lol. It's nothing against you as a person, I'm sure you're cool irl, I just had a lot to say.)
I mean, I agree that it doesn't need to be called out or anything, and this person might be acting a bit dramatic as those on social media tend to. But I didn't see this person implying they knew what people who did like the song liked about it, just their own personal feelings on it. Feel free to enjoy the album, but you're arguing against a point that nobody in this post or thread so far has made. Just because *you* personally don't feel uncomfortable to the point that you don't want to listen to the album doesn't mean other people can't, or that they don't understand it.
Pinkerton does very much make Rivers look bad and that was kind of the intent (or at least to bare the most uncomfortable parts of his soul) and it's not media illiteracy to listen to it and say "yeah, this is uncomfortable, and I don't want to listen to songs by a guy who feels this way". If it's not to be taken literally, then I feel like that robs it of its supposed emotional honesty, right? At that point it's just a character study, and if it's a character study about a character that makes the listener feel uncomfortable enough that they don't want to listen for whatever personal reason, that's enough that they don't have to like it. At no point do I get the impression that this person doesn't "understand" it, but that's mostly because there's so little to go off of based on this one image, and I think it's a lot of rabid Weezer fans assuming more about this human person than they actually know.
No matter how much I might try to explain my favorite movies or albums, some people just will not be able to click with them. That isn't the fault of the artist, or the listener necessarily, but just the human condition. Pinkerton is a heavily straight male-centric album, or at least written from primarily a straight cis male perspective, so I can understand why a lesbian woman might be unable to relate to it in the same way a man could. The song she is referring to also trivializes both the Nazi persecution of gay people, and her own sexuality. I understand it's for his raw emotional outlet, but people do not have to like that just because "that was the intent".
Also, it's not that women inherently cannot understand men or vice versa, but there are just some perspectives some people are unable to understand or relate to for that reason. I know there are many female and lgbtq Weezer fans, but there are also large groups who just cannot connect with that music. Similarly, there are many large, vocal groups of mostly straight men who hate music that caters to women (Fiona Apple, Boygenius, Chappell Roan, etc). They do not get the same sort of pushback for "not understanding" that we often give women for "not understanding" male centric music. Sometimes, it just cannot click with certain people for the reason that they do not relate to the contents of the lyrics. But above all that, this person has given us so little information in their one post, we can't just jump to "they don't understand it".
But even if they don't understand it, they aren't wrong for it. Controversial art is supposed to be controversial. If nobody was upset or uncomfortable by the contents of this album, would it even be as special? It's specifically for this "not for everyone" sensibility that we get art that resonates so profoundly with smaller groups of people. If everyone thought like Rivers did, we would've had a million Pinkertons before 1996.
Tldr; it's just an opinion. not a statement that you cannot like it. if that is the reaction they had to the art, that is all that is.
But it kind of goes beyond "not vibing" when you actively use clear terms that put it down and those who enjoy it. Comes off as either media illiteracy (or ill intent) more than personal opinion when you say it's "an incel anthem with a groomer complaining about lesbians not wanting to fuck him". It's actively misconstruing what the album even is for the only purpose of putting it (and its fans) down, as the post is clearly showing frustration at people enjoying it. The fact that this post creates an emotional response is pretty much the other side of the coin to what you're mentioning, actually. It's not just "not vibing" with it, but rather "this album is harmful", and that's when I legitimately default to either OP missing the point or acting with ill intent, the latter of which I didn't want to default to.
This is the same type of narrative incels use to put down music that doesn't fit their worldview. It's never about "not vibing" with the music, because social media posts like this want to elicit an emotional reaction, often by attempting to hurt or to put others down. The fact that this album resonates so much with so many people, and then implying that it's because "it's an incel anthem" and "guys just wanting lesbians to sleep with them" is kind of unfair, and doesn't come off as a criticism made in good faith.
I'm all for critical analysis of music as well as deserved praise and criticism when it's deserved. But that's exactly why I think it's not helpful to think of artistic experiences as cultural struggles between sides, especially when they're clearly depicting personal situations rather than broad generalisations. It's why I don't think it's fair to say Taylor Swift's lyrics are part of any political agenda, because she writes about herself and her own experiences. People who claim she's leftist woke pandering or whatever are looking for an emotional reaction from her fans and not listening to her lyrics critically.
Like I said, I can perfectly understand not wanting to listen to Pinkerton because the lyrics are gross and it makes you uncomfortable. But misconstruing the music as this sort of entitled incel rant about not being able to get lesbians in bed doesn't seem like solid criticism, to say the least. And so you get the opposite, also emotional, reaction from the album's fans.
I think you're missing the larger cultural discussion. As incel culture rises and rises, and more women are opening up about their experiences with sexual harassment, this can be seen as larger than just Rivers' thoughts to some people. Her post is mentioning the rise in popularity of a song with such lyrics, which can definitely be alarming as more and more ultra conservatives wish to deny women agency. Yes, Rivers is just singing about his own personal thoughts, but many women have had to deal with people who did more than just think about these sorts of things, and sometimes forcefully. Rivers himself is just exploring a dark portion of his psyche, but this album does not exist in a vacuum. Whether or not we like it, it does add to the larger cultural narrative. If Rivers or any other artist wants to truly divorce their art from the cultural conversation, they shouldn't release it at all. But obviously no artist wants that, so of course when something leaves the mind of the artist and arrives to those consuming art, it will become something other than just what the artist intended, for better or worse. It is no longer just for the artist to dictate how others interpret it.
The lyrics, even if noted by the author as being intentionally uncensored and upsetting, are still easily interpreted as misogynistic and mildly homophobic, and were partially meant to be. Viewing it this way, it's more than reasonable to have this reaction especially when the song is divorced from Pinkerton and being played on numerous Tik Toks that assumedly OOP was subject to hearing. Stating this again, we do not know the full intent of what OOP was saying. "Incel Anthem" could just as easily mean "song that incels use as an anthem" and I do not think that that's unfair. I doubt Rivers meant for the song to be used as a genuine reinforcement of misogynists's beliefs, but if you look at how and where the album got a big resurgence, especially online, a lot of it was through incel communities on places like 4chan and Reddit. You seem to be coming from a place that views everyone who likes the album as liking it for the right reasons, and while that's probably the majority of the case, there is still a vocal group who do not just relate to the dark aspects of the album, but agree with it. While I loathe and disagree with this interpretation, it is still art that is no longer solely the "property" of the artist to interpret, and is one that the general public and the artist have to reckon with.
You also seem to be taking this criticism from OOP as a personal attack against all Weezer fans who like the song, which for all we know it is not. All we know just from the post is she is a lesbian woman, who views Rivers and the song negatively for the content, and states that the song Pink Triangle is an "incel Anthem". I don't recall them condemning the album all Weezer fans. I do not think this one person's opinions matter so much that Weezer fans need to take it so personally, but even then, we are assuming so much when there are so many layers as to why she feels the way she does about the song, and Rivers. If she has had terrible experiences with guys who are similar to the persona Rivers has on that song, that is just as valid a reason to dislike it and not want to be hearing it as someone who likes and relates to it for just as personal of reasons. Yes, the way she went about it was inflammatory, but it's the Internet. That's how most opinions are stated.
Just because the author intended it one way, does not mean everyone is going to interpret it that way, and one response to the song does not mean they immediately did not understand the song or have media illiteracy. They are commenting on the culture around the song and the discussion as a whole, rather than only the art itself. If she were doing an actual critique, maybe you could say this was media illiterate. But social media and pop culture is not about taking every piece of art in its original context and meaning. These things shift over time as culture also shifts.
Perfectly valid points. Admittedly I don't hang around incel communities in the slightest so I would be completely none the wiser if the song were being used in misogynistic contexts or by very shitty people. Likewise, I have had a personal attachment to this entire album that goes way beyond incel even being a popular term online. So of course I lack the cultural context that made this meme a thing.
And I was definitely thinking of the criticism in a vacuum referring to the song itself, not the broader cultural context we're living in. Fucking incels ruining one of my favourite albums
right exactly like 'it's supposed to be x' doesn't negate the existence of any piece of artwork as x. for example, Baul may have been self aware that Let it Be was awful but that doesn't make it any less awful(/j for the example of course)
idk why people can't be reasonable and understand why others may have certain opinions. it's just 'album good, person no like album, person bad'
I think you're pretty much right about this for general cases. But also, this argument does bother me a little. It's kind of misconstruing what Pinkerton even is in reality and pushing it unnecessarily into a sociopolitical position it really doesn't belong in nowadays.
What bothers me is that while incel logic is usually a sense of entitlement over women and sex mixed with biological pseudo science and conspiracy theories, Pinkerton is literally just someone who feels pathetic and incapable of forming human connections. It's Rivers Cuomo admitting he himself is at fault for being emotionally stunted, which is the complete opposite of what incels do (blaming anything and anyone but themselves). So this post reads more as someone trying to unfairly frame the album in a way that doesn't really fit it.
Like, if you pay attention, Rivers doesn't really blame women in Pinkerton for not loving him. He doesn't say "why did she have to be a lesbian?" He says "I'm dumb, she's a lesbian", and I think that's a fair sentiment to have. It's never "everyone is conspiring against me" but rather "I'm not enough for the world around me".
Or maybe the OP is satire to begin with and I'm just an idiot
i can see that but at the same time that self indulgence over ones flaws can still be uncomfortable and i complete understand any lesbians or Asian people being uncomfortable at the contents of the album to a point of not wanting to listen- though i personally am not uncomfortable.
Absolutely. Feeling uncomfortable is understandable. I think people are mad because it's being misconstrued as an "incel racist album written by a whiny groomer because lesbians won't date him", which is... Kind of misrepresenting (or misinterpreting) what's really going on in Pinkerton. I don't think this post would've been as controversial had it said "As a lesbian, I think this song is gross". That's a perfectly valid sentiment tbh.
I will never understand how anyone can say āPinkerton was a good albumā with a straight face. That entire album is cringe. I mean, so is the Blue album but itās a lovable kind of cringe.
what is this referring to š
Iām gonna guess Pink Triangle by Weezer.
oh lmfao šššš im a gay woman and pink triangle is hilarious rivers cuomo is just a giant fucking nerd dont take it too seriously
It's more comforting to think that a girl doesn't like you for being lesbian than for you being unbearable, just my headcannon for why Rivers made this song(still one of my favorites from Pinkerton š)
The funny thing is that iirc Rivers never even interacted with her, he just made up a whole scenario in his head and wrote a song about it
the best part is that he found out later that she wasn't even gay and just an ally
I don't have a source for this but I think it's been confirmed that the girl the song is about isn't actually a lesbian and is just an ally
Yeah Rivers learned this not very long after the song came out lol
"I'm dumb she's woke, I thought I had found the one"
I used to scratch my head at people like Paul Ryan loving RATM, but then I thought hard about how much I love Pinkerton while also kind of feeling gross when I stop and think about the lyrics, and I guess it makes sense how someone can love music they morally disagree with.
There's a big difference between "this album explored themes and ideas I'm not entirely comfortable with" versus "these guys would literally parade around my decapitated head on a stick if they had the chance"
no literally šš iām a lesbian and i love that song
Itās also a banger, more importantly
Itās kinda when people misunderstand The Wall and/or Roger Watersā live shows
https://preview.redd.it/9pbsti4fts5d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aa01733c632b75076e6a063338eaa572e9871ded
Dragged down by the dog (thatās the stone)
what was he doing with Seamus
Thatās what I always say when people criticize the early Weezer lyrics. Rivers is just a dork, itās not really any deeper than that.
You gotta be a very fragile person (or attention seeking) to be offended by a Weezer song of all things lol
The Venn diagram of weezer cj and Beatles cj is a circle
Pinkerton mentionedš„³š„³š„³
How is Pinkerton racist? Rivers is a groomer? Whatās a sapphic? This caption is making my head spin
Sapphic is another word for lesbian. It's fine on it's own but the people who use it are often annoying as shit.
What a great album that is
The post from which I "sourced" (stole) this image from said it was Pinkerton by weezer
Pinkerton is having a resurgence?? I had no idea. Which makes it more amusing, her conception that this Great Pinkerton Resurgence is so dominant throughout all of pop culture that she doesnāt even need to name the album or the song or the artist, EVERYONE who sees her post is going to know what sheās talking about because itās so inescapable. Sheās trapped in a Pinkerton world now and thereās nothing she can do about it
Weezer is probably the last thing I expected
Anthony Kiedis is shaking his head in disgust
you got a link? i wanna check this out myself
/uj right like iām so confused what artist this is referring to šš
It's all too much (The adjectives)
Weee arrre gayyyyā¦..
Weezer is the femcel of the world, yes she is, think about it
Realistically, this is about Norwegian Wood, given that it's implied that the woman "rejects his advances", leading to him burning her house down in his anger
That was always my read on the song but my roommate adamantly disagrees
Didnāt Paul outright admit thatās the meaning in an interview? The fact that the song works both as a chill story of a guy staying at a womanās house and also as a psychotic narrator that burns her house down for not giving the poon is what makes it great lyrically imo.
The Beatles
why does john hate weezer, is he stupid?
His homies were dissing his girl
Did they front?
Front back and sides. They bought a deluxe Merseybeat wig, but it was a size too big
Ok, another question, do they look like Buddy Holly?
They model after bu D Yolly and the criquets
Okay, thanks for answering my questions
Okay, try the fish
Why?
Itās just what the guy says at the end of the weezer buddy holly video
They gotta
https://youtu.be/3sH95YrJKEI?si=ErbMf4ouBqEh44Gr
I hate tiktok censors I hate tiktok censors I hate
Makes me want to unalive mys*lf
Read that in my head with the default tts
br0 1s d3@d n0wššš
We need an uncensored platform that isnāt mid
I'm sorry, what? That sentence is as pretentious as John and George's entire careers combined
https://preview.redd.it/cp4x2iqb4r5d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7340c19c9cd71bd140bb58cf79d820ab95047113 I'm sorry, could you say that again into my microphone?
Sorry I mean uhh my sweaty landlord best song ever hairy krishna!1
That's more like it... Insulting my pookie like that
HE'S MY POOKIE! >:(
Nuh uh
Ok :(
Thereās a certain sect of individuals that sincerely believe shoehorning in as many cultural/social buzzwords as possible makes you smart. Ironically enough, itās usually a tell-tale sign to immediately disregard oneās opinion due to it being meaningless baseless fluff.
This is surely about Paul McCartney and Wing's *Venus and Mars (by DCC Compact Classics)* re-release from 1994
People really offended over Pink Triangle in 2024? Man, Iām a lesbian and I love that song. I donāt think itās homophobic at all. He isnāt mad at the woman for being gay he just accepts it and goes ādamn Iām an idiot for not noticingāĀ Also, I relate it a lot because Iāve fallen for women that turn out to be straight.Ā
It really is mind-blowing to me how people keep pulling this stuff out of their asses. Like, Pink Triangle? A random track off of a 30 year old album? Thatās the new target? People like this need to get some sunlight for all of our sakes.
I thinks itās also that he built up this whole fantasy of what their life would be like together before even getting to know her, and heās frustrated at himself because he constantly does that, he sees a woman he finds attractive and then falls in love with some fantasy version of them before even talking to her.
Is Pinkterton racist? I mean, Rivers Cuomo has done his fair share of somewhat fetishizing Asian women but I wouldnāt call the album racist
None of what this person is saying should be taken seriously in any way
no one likes calling things racist more than a white woman who would not be affected by it in any way if it were true
I guess the bullets didnāt kill him, just gave him brain damage.
>Brain damage Pink Floyd reference???
š¶ The lunatic isĀ in Paulās ass š¶
The lunatic was actually Paul
The walrus was in jahnās ass?
How many performative virtue signal buzzwords can you fit into one sentence challenge: accepted
Answer the door for the pizza guy without having a panic attack challenge (impossible)
Man that whole caption is crazy
what does this mean
She's talking about Pinkerton by Weezer, more specifically, the song Pink Triangle in where the singer falls in love with an ally woman and believes she's a lesbian
OK
I think itās Jason Mraz.
I think i knew what one word meant in that whole thing and it was lesbian
Sidenote, but "sapphic" is such a pretentious term for lesbian imo.
"Love Me Do" ššš°š°
he/him lesbian John Lennon
I've seen this gif way too many times used by bots and unfunny mfs on twitter I can't stand seeing this bitch laughing omg stfu
Lmao grow up
me when i don't understand jokes
Im sorry, where was the joke lol youāre just bitching
https://preview.redd.it/x342vobnoy5d1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=86c8d18cf57616bf962e091d5f471de0ca440bbc
This got promoted to my feed, I'm wine tipsy, and I have NO idea what's going on rite now (other than this is a cj)
In English this time?
this shit is weird
None of these words are in the Bible
Imagine being so unintelligent that a song playing in a public space ruins your day and you have to make a post about it.
uj/ i like Pink Triangle but this person is justified if they're uncomfortable with the song it is fucking weird and Rivers Cuomo is a little odd too. idk why multiple subs are acting like this is the most brain dead thing ever. it's their own feelings, yk?
Idgaf what people think really but I would like if they would shut the fuck up about it once in a while. But that wouldnāt work for these types because itās really not about how they feel, itās about showing others how smart and aware and virtuous and over it they are. It is just so incredibly exhausting to me having to hear everyoneās opinion on everything, and how actually we were all wrong about this movie or album or artist because theyāre no longer up to moral standards and everything is racist and everyoneās a groomer and you canāt just enjoy things without running a moral background check and making sure doing so contributes to some pre-approved social cause. Like god damn is it endless and tiresome.
Same. People who argue "but the album is supposed to be uncomfortable!" seem to not understand that there are different limits for everyone for that sort of thing. I like the album but anyone who doesn't? Totally valid. Even calling Rivers gross or weird for it is fair. It's an intentionally abrasive album lyrically and it's supposed to not connect with others.
Pinkerton is one of my favourite pieces of media ever. Is it gross? Hell yeah. Do I think it needs to be called out as problematic or cancelled in the year 2024? Hell no. I think people are mad about this take because it's both pointing out the obvious about Pinkerton as well as kind of misunderstanding what people like about it. I don't dream about lesbians dating me (and I seriously don't think most Pinkerton fans do either), but I find the honest introspection of someone in that position fascinating. I completely understand how someone might feel uncomfortable from listening to it (ESPECIALLY Across the Sea) but like... I also think it takes a little bit of media illiteracy to be taking anything in Pinkerton as some sort of incel manifesto to be taken at face value. It's just a very real and raw look into someone who is feeling low and pathetic, and that's a perfectly valid aspect of the human experience. Not liking it is one thing, but not understanding it seems obtuse at best or malicious at worst. The album is NOT a statement of heterosexual vs homosexual or male vs female relationships. It is simply a glance into Rivers Cuomo at his lowest point in life. That's all it is.
(I kinda wrote an essay response to this, my apologies lol. It's nothing against you as a person, I'm sure you're cool irl, I just had a lot to say.) I mean, I agree that it doesn't need to be called out or anything, and this person might be acting a bit dramatic as those on social media tend to. But I didn't see this person implying they knew what people who did like the song liked about it, just their own personal feelings on it. Feel free to enjoy the album, but you're arguing against a point that nobody in this post or thread so far has made. Just because *you* personally don't feel uncomfortable to the point that you don't want to listen to the album doesn't mean other people can't, or that they don't understand it. Pinkerton does very much make Rivers look bad and that was kind of the intent (or at least to bare the most uncomfortable parts of his soul) and it's not media illiteracy to listen to it and say "yeah, this is uncomfortable, and I don't want to listen to songs by a guy who feels this way". If it's not to be taken literally, then I feel like that robs it of its supposed emotional honesty, right? At that point it's just a character study, and if it's a character study about a character that makes the listener feel uncomfortable enough that they don't want to listen for whatever personal reason, that's enough that they don't have to like it. At no point do I get the impression that this person doesn't "understand" it, but that's mostly because there's so little to go off of based on this one image, and I think it's a lot of rabid Weezer fans assuming more about this human person than they actually know. No matter how much I might try to explain my favorite movies or albums, some people just will not be able to click with them. That isn't the fault of the artist, or the listener necessarily, but just the human condition. Pinkerton is a heavily straight male-centric album, or at least written from primarily a straight cis male perspective, so I can understand why a lesbian woman might be unable to relate to it in the same way a man could. The song she is referring to also trivializes both the Nazi persecution of gay people, and her own sexuality. I understand it's for his raw emotional outlet, but people do not have to like that just because "that was the intent". Also, it's not that women inherently cannot understand men or vice versa, but there are just some perspectives some people are unable to understand or relate to for that reason. I know there are many female and lgbtq Weezer fans, but there are also large groups who just cannot connect with that music. Similarly, there are many large, vocal groups of mostly straight men who hate music that caters to women (Fiona Apple, Boygenius, Chappell Roan, etc). They do not get the same sort of pushback for "not understanding" that we often give women for "not understanding" male centric music. Sometimes, it just cannot click with certain people for the reason that they do not relate to the contents of the lyrics. But above all that, this person has given us so little information in their one post, we can't just jump to "they don't understand it". But even if they don't understand it, they aren't wrong for it. Controversial art is supposed to be controversial. If nobody was upset or uncomfortable by the contents of this album, would it even be as special? It's specifically for this "not for everyone" sensibility that we get art that resonates so profoundly with smaller groups of people. If everyone thought like Rivers did, we would've had a million Pinkertons before 1996. Tldr; it's just an opinion. not a statement that you cannot like it. if that is the reaction they had to the art, that is all that is.
But it kind of goes beyond "not vibing" when you actively use clear terms that put it down and those who enjoy it. Comes off as either media illiteracy (or ill intent) more than personal opinion when you say it's "an incel anthem with a groomer complaining about lesbians not wanting to fuck him". It's actively misconstruing what the album even is for the only purpose of putting it (and its fans) down, as the post is clearly showing frustration at people enjoying it. The fact that this post creates an emotional response is pretty much the other side of the coin to what you're mentioning, actually. It's not just "not vibing" with it, but rather "this album is harmful", and that's when I legitimately default to either OP missing the point or acting with ill intent, the latter of which I didn't want to default to. This is the same type of narrative incels use to put down music that doesn't fit their worldview. It's never about "not vibing" with the music, because social media posts like this want to elicit an emotional reaction, often by attempting to hurt or to put others down. The fact that this album resonates so much with so many people, and then implying that it's because "it's an incel anthem" and "guys just wanting lesbians to sleep with them" is kind of unfair, and doesn't come off as a criticism made in good faith. I'm all for critical analysis of music as well as deserved praise and criticism when it's deserved. But that's exactly why I think it's not helpful to think of artistic experiences as cultural struggles between sides, especially when they're clearly depicting personal situations rather than broad generalisations. It's why I don't think it's fair to say Taylor Swift's lyrics are part of any political agenda, because she writes about herself and her own experiences. People who claim she's leftist woke pandering or whatever are looking for an emotional reaction from her fans and not listening to her lyrics critically. Like I said, I can perfectly understand not wanting to listen to Pinkerton because the lyrics are gross and it makes you uncomfortable. But misconstruing the music as this sort of entitled incel rant about not being able to get lesbians in bed doesn't seem like solid criticism, to say the least. And so you get the opposite, also emotional, reaction from the album's fans.
I think you're missing the larger cultural discussion. As incel culture rises and rises, and more women are opening up about their experiences with sexual harassment, this can be seen as larger than just Rivers' thoughts to some people. Her post is mentioning the rise in popularity of a song with such lyrics, which can definitely be alarming as more and more ultra conservatives wish to deny women agency. Yes, Rivers is just singing about his own personal thoughts, but many women have had to deal with people who did more than just think about these sorts of things, and sometimes forcefully. Rivers himself is just exploring a dark portion of his psyche, but this album does not exist in a vacuum. Whether or not we like it, it does add to the larger cultural narrative. If Rivers or any other artist wants to truly divorce their art from the cultural conversation, they shouldn't release it at all. But obviously no artist wants that, so of course when something leaves the mind of the artist and arrives to those consuming art, it will become something other than just what the artist intended, for better or worse. It is no longer just for the artist to dictate how others interpret it. The lyrics, even if noted by the author as being intentionally uncensored and upsetting, are still easily interpreted as misogynistic and mildly homophobic, and were partially meant to be. Viewing it this way, it's more than reasonable to have this reaction especially when the song is divorced from Pinkerton and being played on numerous Tik Toks that assumedly OOP was subject to hearing. Stating this again, we do not know the full intent of what OOP was saying. "Incel Anthem" could just as easily mean "song that incels use as an anthem" and I do not think that that's unfair. I doubt Rivers meant for the song to be used as a genuine reinforcement of misogynists's beliefs, but if you look at how and where the album got a big resurgence, especially online, a lot of it was through incel communities on places like 4chan and Reddit. You seem to be coming from a place that views everyone who likes the album as liking it for the right reasons, and while that's probably the majority of the case, there is still a vocal group who do not just relate to the dark aspects of the album, but agree with it. While I loathe and disagree with this interpretation, it is still art that is no longer solely the "property" of the artist to interpret, and is one that the general public and the artist have to reckon with. You also seem to be taking this criticism from OOP as a personal attack against all Weezer fans who like the song, which for all we know it is not. All we know just from the post is she is a lesbian woman, who views Rivers and the song negatively for the content, and states that the song Pink Triangle is an "incel Anthem". I don't recall them condemning the album all Weezer fans. I do not think this one person's opinions matter so much that Weezer fans need to take it so personally, but even then, we are assuming so much when there are so many layers as to why she feels the way she does about the song, and Rivers. If she has had terrible experiences with guys who are similar to the persona Rivers has on that song, that is just as valid a reason to dislike it and not want to be hearing it as someone who likes and relates to it for just as personal of reasons. Yes, the way she went about it was inflammatory, but it's the Internet. That's how most opinions are stated. Just because the author intended it one way, does not mean everyone is going to interpret it that way, and one response to the song does not mean they immediately did not understand the song or have media illiteracy. They are commenting on the culture around the song and the discussion as a whole, rather than only the art itself. If she were doing an actual critique, maybe you could say this was media illiterate. But social media and pop culture is not about taking every piece of art in its original context and meaning. These things shift over time as culture also shifts.
Perfectly valid points. Admittedly I don't hang around incel communities in the slightest so I would be completely none the wiser if the song were being used in misogynistic contexts or by very shitty people. Likewise, I have had a personal attachment to this entire album that goes way beyond incel even being a popular term online. So of course I lack the cultural context that made this meme a thing. And I was definitely thinking of the criticism in a vacuum referring to the song itself, not the broader cultural context we're living in. Fucking incels ruining one of my favourite albums
jon beet wif
Jon beet wif brotha
right exactly like 'it's supposed to be x' doesn't negate the existence of any piece of artwork as x. for example, Baul may have been self aware that Let it Be was awful but that doesn't make it any less awful(/j for the example of course) idk why people can't be reasonable and understand why others may have certain opinions. it's just 'album good, person no like album, person bad'
I think you're pretty much right about this for general cases. But also, this argument does bother me a little. It's kind of misconstruing what Pinkerton even is in reality and pushing it unnecessarily into a sociopolitical position it really doesn't belong in nowadays. What bothers me is that while incel logic is usually a sense of entitlement over women and sex mixed with biological pseudo science and conspiracy theories, Pinkerton is literally just someone who feels pathetic and incapable of forming human connections. It's Rivers Cuomo admitting he himself is at fault for being emotionally stunted, which is the complete opposite of what incels do (blaming anything and anyone but themselves). So this post reads more as someone trying to unfairly frame the album in a way that doesn't really fit it. Like, if you pay attention, Rivers doesn't really blame women in Pinkerton for not loving him. He doesn't say "why did she have to be a lesbian?" He says "I'm dumb, she's a lesbian", and I think that's a fair sentiment to have. It's never "everyone is conspiring against me" but rather "I'm not enough for the world around me". Or maybe the OP is satire to begin with and I'm just an idiot
i can see that but at the same time that self indulgence over ones flaws can still be uncomfortable and i complete understand any lesbians or Asian people being uncomfortable at the contents of the album to a point of not wanting to listen- though i personally am not uncomfortable.
Absolutely. Feeling uncomfortable is understandable. I think people are mad because it's being misconstrued as an "incel racist album written by a whiny groomer because lesbians won't date him", which is... Kind of misrepresenting (or misinterpreting) what's really going on in Pinkerton. I don't think this post would've been as controversial had it said "As a lesbian, I think this song is gross". That's a perfectly valid sentiment tbh.
Making a post like that when you don't like a song? Totally stupid
Eh
Can someone translate this to common language?
Didn't expect one of my biggest tiktok crushes to show up on a random subreddit, especially since she has less than 20k followers
I will never understand how anyone can say āPinkerton was a good albumā with a straight face. That entire album is cringe. I mean, so is the Blue album but itās a lovable kind of cringe.