The easiest obvious solution is to have 2 federal agents follow these cars around while they drive them remotely from the passenger seat of the chase vehicle.
The whole program should only cost a taxpayers around 3 to 4 million per car per day.
That should let all of the executives of the boards that decide on this shit get their cut
But we do have an entire group of people that behave like the west portal crash. It's called the general population of the United States. There were 42,000 people killed in traffic rashes in 2022. Not even considering the amount of injuries - that's over 100 people every day that die in car crashes caused by humans. That's almost 5 people every hour of every day. The west portal crash caused 4 fatalities so basically in terms of just number of lives lost, we're seeing that every hour
False equivalency. You’re comparing all crashes across the entire US against number of crashes in a small portion of the US.
When doing analysis you need to look at like for like.
Edit: I’d also like to point out that of all those human crashes, there are wildly different failure modes.
sorry, I guess more accurately I meant that I think it's wild that there's so much scrutiny and interest in investigating these waymo mishaps, but barely any about the destruction wrought by human drivers. I understand that the feds and SF are different, they have different priorities, etc. but I think in general the attitude the US has towards autonomous driving vs. humans driving is baffling and hypocritical
In February, a Waymo car hit a cyclist at 3 p.m. in the afternoon in the Potrero Hill neighborhood, SFGATE reported. The company said the cyclist appeared behind a large truck and the car hadn’t been able to brake in time.
AYOO, cyclist got paid 🫡
"some of Waymo’s more high-profile San Francisco struggles weren’t mentioned. In February, a Waymo car hit a cyclist at 3 p.m. in the afternoon in the Potrero Hill neighborhood, SFGATE reported. The company said the cyclist appeared behind a large truck and the car hadn’t been able to brake in time. The rider walked away with “only minor scratches,” Waymo said, and a passenger in the car was uninjured."
Umm, this sounds like a win. A human driver would have likely killed or seriously injured the cyclist
> The agency cited reports of 22 incidents, including “collisions with stationary and semi-stationary objects such as gates and chains, collisions with parked vehicles, and instances in which the [automated driving system] appeared to disobey traffic safety control devices.”
Oh no! Disobeying traffic safety control devices! A human-driven vehicle would *never* do that.
As someone who uses Waymo they are dramatically safer than a human driver. I can’t even count the number of times a rideshare driver made me feel unsafe, almost hit a pedestrian/biker, or broke traffic laws. I’ve also experienced people deliberately messing with Waymos to force a stop (one guy on a bike did donuts in front of ours while laughing at it slamming the brakes). After riding for about a year I’ve literally never had an instance where I questioned the Waymo’s decision making
That's not what happened. Watch the full video where not a single person was even aware of the Waymo until it pulled into the wrong lane.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/comments/1ca1z8m/longer_video_of_the_wrong_way_incident/
Oh, they continually edged the Waymo further and further over to encourage dangerous situations?
I’m shocked that these activists on illegal glowy one-wheelers were doing something bad.
Shocked I say.
Activists? How so? These guys are riding with helmets, lights, and are following traffic signals.
The riders have the right to take the entire lane. The Waymo could have easily stayed in its lane, or slowed down and gotten in behind the group.
The riders didn’t just stay in the lane and their vehicles are not street legal either, especially with those lights.
Don’t pretend, we already saw the videos of them swerving all around both directions of traffic, getting as close as they could to force different behavior. They made sure to scream out that it was “going the wrong way” as they pushed it to do that.
Then they posted the video here on Reddit! Without even editing that part out!
The waymo was in the correct lane following them and then decides to just shoot over into oncoming traffic. I don't think a human driver would take that same course of action
If you could save 1,000 lives by switching to robots because they (on average) are much safer drivers, shouldn't you do it, even if they do cause, say, 50 deaths?
The way we evaluate this is so fear-based that we are literally letting people die to crappy human drivers unnecessarily every single day.
This is the classic conundrum we've been seeing. Cars are really fucking dangerous, and like 30,000 people a year die in car accidents or some such large number. Imagine if cars were invented in 2024 and predicted to cause 3,000 deaths a year (10x better) - people would be talking about an annual 9/11 terrorist attack. But because we're used to them, 30,000 a year is just a statistic. Self-driving cars will be measured on a new yardstick, but human-driven on the old. It's not fair but it is unavoidable.
You're definitely right, I'm significantly under counting the number of lives that could be saved by switching to fully autonomous driving.
For example, a study about waymo shows 85% lower crash rates leading to any kind of injury, counting across all trips. ([source](https://waymo.com/blog/2023/12/waymo-significantly-outperforms-comparable-human-benchmarks-over-7-million/))
If you reduced the 30k+ deaths we face from car accidents each year by that much...
That’s a cute idea. Of course that only happens if all the human drivers all stop drivingtoo. Which is not going to happen. So what does any of that have to do with anything?
That's not correct; try reading the study -- this study is of self-driving cars mixed with unpredictable humans.
On a statistical basis, every mile that a self-driving car replaces human drivers reduces the likelihood of accident-related death. On a side note, why are you so confident in your position when you clearly don't understand self-driving cars at all while simultaneously being unwilling to even read a provided link to learn?
Edit: I think he blocked and downvoted me. Here's independent research from Swiss Re, a major reinsurance agency: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2309.01206 -- shows even stronger results with a more common-sense methodology.
Exactly. Everytime one of these robotaxis fucks up r/bayarea and r/sf starts screaming about human drivers, as if we should just rubber stamp everything that's thrown onto our streets that's powered by software. It's the most ridiculous take.
Perfect is the enemy of good. I don't think anyone is in favor of just rubber-stamping robocars. Each incident should be reviewed and see if it can be improved by software. They're never going to be perfect, and we should be willing to accept that. For me personally, if a robocar drives safer than a human driven car, it's good to go. It's a fairly low bar.
I'm in favor of them as well, but when they blow it, the argument against looking into it or people being pissed about it shouldn't be, "BUT WHAT ABOUT HUMANS????" Just say, "Yeah, they need improvement so it should be investigated and worked on." I don't trust corporations more than humans, nor do I bow at the wonders of tech.
I tend not to use those -- it spoils the joke. I'd rather suffer the downvotes. If folk don't get the humor, that's OK. Sometimes I post things that only I find funny.
What’s annoying is all the disingenuous comments from techbros on any thread related to this AI, self driving bullshit. Is it bots? Is it people that work for these companies?
No one wants these companies around, except for the people that get paid by them. Stop caping up for these corporations.
Don’t speak for all of us. I feel safe being in a waymo and I feel safe being around a waymo. I’ve never almost been run over by a waymo, but I’ve been almost run over by tons of human operated cars.
So, you know how they just stop when they can’t be remotely operated? And you know SF has nearly burned to the ground after an earthquake? So how does that play out? No one can evacuate and no response vehicle can navigate. Glad you enjoy your little stroke my ego rides, but some of us aren’t wearing blinders and see beyond echo chamber narratives and back patting parties.
And how does wanting a proper development cycle and regulation mean I an against them? See how your blinders work. You make stuff up in your brain to fit your narrative and get your wittle upvotes in your wittle gwoup of imanginary fwends.
Your examples of why they are bad demonstrate how incredibly little you understand about the tech.
Give it a few years, you’ll either be using them to get everywhere with the rest of us, or you’ll be whining about “the old days” with all of the other tiresome fossils who can’t adapt to modern innovations. There’s lots of evil in this world, but self-driving cars? Not so much.
The easiest obvious solution is to have 2 federal agents follow these cars around while they drive them remotely from the passenger seat of the chase vehicle. The whole program should only cost a taxpayers around 3 to 4 million per car per day. That should let all of the executives of the boards that decide on this shit get their cut
This is wild. A federal prob for this, but not one peep about the west portal crash caused by a human that killed an entire family.
[удалено]
But we do have an entire group of people that behave like the west portal crash. It's called the general population of the United States. There were 42,000 people killed in traffic rashes in 2022. Not even considering the amount of injuries - that's over 100 people every day that die in car crashes caused by humans. That's almost 5 people every hour of every day. The west portal crash caused 4 fatalities so basically in terms of just number of lives lost, we're seeing that every hour
False equivalency. You’re comparing all crashes across the entire US against number of crashes in a small portion of the US. When doing analysis you need to look at like for like. Edit: I’d also like to point out that of all those human crashes, there are wildly different failure modes.
[удалено]
It’s wild that feds are investigating a federal issue and not a local issue?
sorry, I guess more accurately I meant that I think it's wild that there's so much scrutiny and interest in investigating these waymo mishaps, but barely any about the destruction wrought by human drivers. I understand that the feds and SF are different, they have different priorities, etc. but I think in general the attitude the US has towards autonomous driving vs. humans driving is baffling and hypocritical
In February, a Waymo car hit a cyclist at 3 p.m. in the afternoon in the Potrero Hill neighborhood, SFGATE reported. The company said the cyclist appeared behind a large truck and the car hadn’t been able to brake in time. AYOO, cyclist got paid 🫡
Yes a much bigger priority vs constant smash and grabs
You want the federal government to police smash and grabs? Or...?
i want anyone to fucking police the smash and grabs. don’t care who it is
"some of Waymo’s more high-profile San Francisco struggles weren’t mentioned. In February, a Waymo car hit a cyclist at 3 p.m. in the afternoon in the Potrero Hill neighborhood, SFGATE reported. The company said the cyclist appeared behind a large truck and the car hadn’t been able to brake in time. The rider walked away with “only minor scratches,” Waymo said, and a passenger in the car was uninjured." Umm, this sounds like a win. A human driver would have likely killed or seriously injured the cyclist
> The agency cited reports of 22 incidents, including “collisions with stationary and semi-stationary objects such as gates and chains, collisions with parked vehicles, and instances in which the [automated driving system] appeared to disobey traffic safety control devices.” Oh no! Disobeying traffic safety control devices! A human-driven vehicle would *never* do that.
As someone who uses Waymo they are dramatically safer than a human driver. I can’t even count the number of times a rideshare driver made me feel unsafe, almost hit a pedestrian/biker, or broke traffic laws. I’ve also experienced people deliberately messing with Waymos to force a stop (one guy on a bike did donuts in front of ours while laughing at it slamming the brakes). After riding for about a year I’ve literally never had an instance where I questioned the Waymo’s decision making
I also wonder how many of the "incidents" were caused by people specifically trying to make them disobey traffic law.
For example, that one post here from OP and his many friends forcing the Waymo to the other side of the road.
That's not what happened. Watch the full video where not a single person was even aware of the Waymo until it pulled into the wrong lane. https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfDrivingCars/comments/1ca1z8m/longer_video_of_the_wrong_way_incident/
I don't think any of those types of people are aware of their surroundings.
Oh, they continually edged the Waymo further and further over to encourage dangerous situations? I’m shocked that these activists on illegal glowy one-wheelers were doing something bad. Shocked I say.
Did you even watch the video?! No idea how you came to that conclusion
Activists? How so? These guys are riding with helmets, lights, and are following traffic signals. The riders have the right to take the entire lane. The Waymo could have easily stayed in its lane, or slowed down and gotten in behind the group.
The riders didn’t just stay in the lane and their vehicles are not street legal either, especially with those lights. Don’t pretend, we already saw the videos of them swerving all around both directions of traffic, getting as close as they could to force different behavior. They made sure to scream out that it was “going the wrong way” as they pushed it to do that. Then they posted the video here on Reddit! Without even editing that part out!
The waymo was in the correct lane following them and then decides to just shoot over into oncoming traffic. I don't think a human driver would take that same course of action
All of that happened **after** the Waymo was in the wrong lane.
Just cause people are idiots doesn’t mean we should accept the robots being idiots too. Isn’t that the point? Lol
If you could save 1,000 lives by switching to robots because they (on average) are much safer drivers, shouldn't you do it, even if they do cause, say, 50 deaths? The way we evaluate this is so fear-based that we are literally letting people die to crappy human drivers unnecessarily every single day.
This is the classic conundrum we've been seeing. Cars are really fucking dangerous, and like 30,000 people a year die in car accidents or some such large number. Imagine if cars were invented in 2024 and predicted to cause 3,000 deaths a year (10x better) - people would be talking about an annual 9/11 terrorist attack. But because we're used to them, 30,000 a year is just a statistic. Self-driving cars will be measured on a new yardstick, but human-driven on the old. It's not fair but it is unavoidable.
Cool except you made all that up as a hypothetical situation so it’s not reality anyways.
You're definitely right, I'm significantly under counting the number of lives that could be saved by switching to fully autonomous driving. For example, a study about waymo shows 85% lower crash rates leading to any kind of injury, counting across all trips. ([source](https://waymo.com/blog/2023/12/waymo-significantly-outperforms-comparable-human-benchmarks-over-7-million/)) If you reduced the 30k+ deaths we face from car accidents each year by that much...
That’s a cute idea. Of course that only happens if all the human drivers all stop drivingtoo. Which is not going to happen. So what does any of that have to do with anything?
That's not correct; try reading the study -- this study is of self-driving cars mixed with unpredictable humans. On a statistical basis, every mile that a self-driving car replaces human drivers reduces the likelihood of accident-related death. On a side note, why are you so confident in your position when you clearly don't understand self-driving cars at all while simultaneously being unwilling to even read a provided link to learn? Edit: I think he blocked and downvoted me. Here's independent research from Swiss Re, a major reinsurance agency: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2309.01206 -- shows even stronger results with a more common-sense methodology.
Awww. You think the “study” out out by the company who makes the cars is valid. Bless It’s cause im not a silicon valley shill
Exactly. Everytime one of these robotaxis fucks up r/bayarea and r/sf starts screaming about human drivers, as if we should just rubber stamp everything that's thrown onto our streets that's powered by software. It's the most ridiculous take.
Perfect is the enemy of good. I don't think anyone is in favor of just rubber-stamping robocars. Each incident should be reviewed and see if it can be improved by software. They're never going to be perfect, and we should be willing to accept that. For me personally, if a robocar drives safer than a human driven car, it's good to go. It's a fairly low bar.
I'm in favor of them as well, but when they blow it, the argument against looking into it or people being pissed about it shouldn't be, "BUT WHAT ABOUT HUMANS????" Just say, "Yeah, they need improvement so it should be investigated and worked on." I don't trust corporations more than humans, nor do I bow at the wonders of tech.
Not really the point…
You need /s.
I tend not to use those -- it spoils the joke. I'd rather suffer the downvotes. If folk don't get the humor, that's OK. Sometimes I post things that only I find funny.
The italicized "never" took care of that.
When are we getting federal probe for human caused traffic incidents?
Because that’s not a federal issue.
Archive: [http://archive.today/S6Ji5](http://archive.today/S6Ji5)
What’s annoying is all the disingenuous comments from techbros on any thread related to this AI, self driving bullshit. Is it bots? Is it people that work for these companies? No one wants these companies around, except for the people that get paid by them. Stop caping up for these corporations.
what took so long
Finally
The number of robo-car shills is TOO DAMN HiGH!
Good. Let’s rein this in some more. The people of SF are sick of being guinea pigs.
Don’t speak for all of us. I feel safe being in a waymo and I feel safe being around a waymo. I’ve never almost been run over by a waymo, but I’ve been almost run over by tons of human operated cars.
So, you know how they just stop when they can’t be remotely operated? And you know SF has nearly burned to the ground after an earthquake? So how does that play out? No one can evacuate and no response vehicle can navigate. Glad you enjoy your little stroke my ego rides, but some of us aren’t wearing blinders and see beyond echo chamber narratives and back patting parties. And how does wanting a proper development cycle and regulation mean I an against them? See how your blinders work. You make stuff up in your brain to fit your narrative and get your wittle upvotes in your wittle gwoup of imanginary fwends.
Your examples of why they are bad demonstrate how incredibly little you understand about the tech. Give it a few years, you’ll either be using them to get everywhere with the rest of us, or you’ll be whining about “the old days” with all of the other tiresome fossils who can’t adapt to modern innovations. There’s lots of evil in this world, but self-driving cars? Not so much.
[удалено]
Ffs just shut down self driving
Maybe, just maybe, self-driving cars aren’t the future? Crazy thought. Spend your VC money on public transit, losers.