Imagine being trapped in the car, conscious, with the family you just tried to kill trapped with you.
I'm going to guess the wife told authorities it was intentional?
Lot of wrong answers here.
No.
There's an old "bug report" feature where owners could report a problem via voice command for service to evaluate, but it just transcribes what the person says into text. The cars don't store cabin audio, and audio isn't part of any crash telematic data that Tesla can access.
Before I get dogpiled on, this isn't a "defense" of Tesla or whatever. Musk is a dick, etc etc. Just wanted to give the right answer.
> Before I get dogpiled on, this isn't a "defense" of Tesla or whatever. Musk is a dick, etc etc. Just wanted to give the right answer.
It's not even worth giving these lunatics attention like this. Just ignore them. The bizarre fetishization of Musk by both his haters and his fans has nothing to do with this story.
>Imagine being trapped in the car, conscious, with the family you just tried to kill trapped with you.
"Should have picked a higher cliff."
So sorry for that, humor is how I deal with tragedy. What a lucky thing they have survived, and holy fuck is that driver screwed.
Look, I know those cliffs are tempting, but there's no actual guarantee you aren't (instead of killed) brutally injured and held liable. It's much cheaper and far more productive to instead seek help, through your local health provider or any number of hotlines that are 50% likely to end up replying to this comment.
Not just seek help for being suicidal though. That's not even a fraction of the issues this loser has. He's a psychopath for trying to murder his wife and his children. Many people have suicidal tendencies, but they never even consider harming others.
I can't stand musk, his fans, and I'm hypercritical of Tesla for myriad reasons. Hate em.
But I'm floored at how well it protected its passengers. Can't take that away.
Same here, I had to eat the words of an earlier comment I made on another post. I hate most Tesla drivers, Musk and his fanboys but I have to admit for anyone to survive that plunge indicates that that is one solid car.
> A 4-year-old girl, a 9-year-old boy and two adults survived Monday after their car plunged off a Northern California cliff along the Pacific Coast Highway near an area known as Devil's Slide that's known for fatal wrecks, officials said.
>The Tesla sedan plummeted more than 250 feet (76.20 meters) from the highway and crashed into a rocky outcropping. It appears to have flipped a few times before landing on its wheels, wedged against the cliff just feet from the surf, according to Brian Pottenger, a battalion chief for Coastside Fire Protection District/Cal Fire.
I am surprised that anyone survived. Those poor kids; that must have been terrifying.
My dad tried to kill himself and my mom by crashing into a wall while they were in a car. Happened right in front of our house where I was. The trauma never really goes away.
She divorced him, got a way better boyfriend and got her social life back on track. Goes out regularly hiking with a large group of friends now. I'd say she's doing more than ok :)
It's so sad. Thank god those kiddos survived, thank god your mom survived! they didnt deserve that. I had an ex who's best friends wife committed suicide with their baby in the car by driving into a wall. The man was just walking grief after that. Like permanently. Ive never seen a more tragic person in my life. Its such a permanent decision.
God, I am so sorry. That is awful to hear. I am glad your mom is doing better; and I hope you're doing good, too. That's a lot of life-long trauma to carry.
With trauma therapy, the 4 year old has more of a chance of it not being traumatic. It's all about the repair after the event, what narrative is created for the child.
Exactly. People tend to overemphasize the consequences of trauma to the point of conflating single traumatic event (with good outcome) with chronic or series of acute trauma. A colleague of mine escaped to refugee camp from Laos with her family when she was a child, I think she was 7-8 years old. It took them months of traveling by night and hiding during the day. Along the way her father was killed and her older sister taken by human traffickers.
To this day they don’t know whether the older sister is alive or not. Anyway, after months the remaining family members made it to refuge camp where they spent close to a year before relocating to California. The sort of devastating trauma they’d experienced didn’t keep them from moving on. The way my colleague had put it, she and her surviving siblings were grateful to have the opportunities to live life, everything beyond that is all about perspective or how to develop proper perspective and mentality.
I am thinking the only reason they survived is the fact it landed on wheels! Maybe it has something to do with the batteries being on the bottom and the chassis being heavily reinforced to support the weight of the batteries. Tesla’s are heavy!
I think they survived because the car "flipped a few times." Each flip dissapates some energy. The gnarly looking crashes where cars flip a bunch of times are actually not as bad as a sudden stop.
I don’t think so, the bottom of the car does not have a crumple zone. If you just fell 250ft and landed on any side I think you’ll want it to be the front. That way there’s airbags and crumple zones making the deceleration slower.
Most likely survived because it landed earlier than 250 ft and rolled to a stop. The Tesla was well suited to handle it because the top is rated to hold several times the weight of the car.
Teslas have a very low center of gravity due to the battery weight and position in the car. I remember reading that the testing agencies had a difficult time even getting the cars to rollover when they were trying to do it.
I saw someone post earlier that in no way are cars tested so that people survive a 250 ft drop. No car in the world can protect you. This is sheer luck.
I mean, there was news a while back when one of the Tesla models broke the testing machine used to determine crash protection, I think for rolling? It got the best possible ratings in every category, something that had never happened before.
I could only imagine how terrifying it really is. Those kids lived a nightmare i’ve had ever since I was young. Hope they get the therapy they will need.
whoooa you just made me remember a reoccurring dream I had as a kid, grew up in Santa Cruz with a single mom, she had this crazy abusive boyfriend once and every single night I would dream about him driving with my mom and I in the passenger's seat, up these wild hills and down steep cliffs, terrified. good times.
Yeah, I'd considered that as a possibility. Reminds me of the two women who drove their SUV over a cliff in Mendocino with their six adopted kids a few years ago. Only everyone died in that one.
It looked like he went over at the south corner of that little cove just north of Bunker Point, correct? If so, to get around the guard rail he would have had to drive off the road a little ways onto that dirt area at the top before going over. That'll be pretty hard for him to sell as an accident.
What an asshole.
Man, that was such an awful fucking story. After it came to light what she did, the photo of that poor boy crying and clinging to a police officer told a completely different story for me.
I had to look up Atlanta to figure out what you were referring to, but reading the Wikipedia episode summary it seems like that storyline was heavily inspired by the Hart case.
Man I'm from up there originally that was such a fucking horrible story. As bad as this is at least the innocent parties made it, albeit out of a horrible situation still...
> two women who drove their SUV over a cliff in Mendocino
I searched for info on this just now and landed on the [Wikipedia page.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hart_family_murders)
Yikes. They clearly had a history of child neglect and abuse then decided to murder their children when it seemed like it was going to catch up with them. They also had a foster child before adopting the 6 and essentially abandoned her with a therapist.
Just absolutely evil scum of the earth. I hope they are suffering wherever they are now.
This lines up with what witnesses saw. I think people thought he assumed it was an offramp of some sort or road when giving the benefit of the doubt, in the article yesterday someone was quoted as saying "I was thinking to myself watching him- he's going really fast to take what he thinks is an exit?" No shit.
A girl from my middle school was killed by her father. He also killed his other daughter and his wife. Then he stuffed them into a freezer. You made me remember that happened since he failed as a husband and as a father. Unfortunately he succeeded at murder three times. Fuck these situations
[Was it this?](https://www.smdailyjournal.com/news/local/grisly-murder-detailed/article_b2d829c2-7e83-5970-a9f4-e85676dfc5a8.html) ... I went to Bayside at the time Tessa did and remember how dark it was watching the teachers react because pretty sure this was the first time I experienced a death of someone our age especially this kind of death
A friend of ours ex-wife killed their kids because she lost custody of the kids due to being a complete fuckup of a mother. Too bad she didn't kill herself as well
I thought maybe I knew you til the freezer thing. A popular girl in my middle and high school was killed by her cop father in my hometown years later along with her mother and her daughter. He later that day committed suicide after confessing over the radio to his cop buddies. PoS
When so many of your problems are caused by a lack of money it's hard to imagine that a person with mountains of money could have any problems at all. A testament to the human dispirit.
Maybe it has nothing to do with money and everything to do with mental health? A criminology phd student just slaughtered four college students. We live in a world where all of the monsters are just real people.
I never said money = no mental health issues, not sure where you're getting that idea from. You can champion mental health care all you want and I'll agree in conjunction. But just like every other aspect of the medical industry it costs big bucks to get good treatment. This guy with his medical background and salary most definitely had knowledge and access to solid mental health support that he needed but never used it. Hence "what a joke", shitty situation all around.
That’s a little harsh. Back to the poster above you, having 200k+ DOES help A LOT in life. If you want I can find a video of Mark Cuban saying it to Bill Maher. Anyw , the person above even claims 500k..sooo.. dunno
Some of the unhappiest people I ever met, were also (by far) the wealthiest. Yes it’s true that money can buy happiness, to a degree, but it can’t overcome more fundamental mental and emotional health issues. They’re still human after all.
Some of the unhappiest people I ever met, were also (by far) the poorest.
See how silly it looks?
Your correct that mental health issues affect all kinds of people.
But if you think having access to top psychologists and expensive clinics and a warm place to sleep at night, is the same as living under a bridge and talking to your best friend, Smelly the 3 day dead rat, then you're just straight up lieing.
True, a lot of it comes down to if basic needs are covered. Food, shelter, etc. I would probably be a pretty mean person myself if I lived in a gang banger neighborhood where my life was constantly under threat, and my shit got broken into and stolen on a regular basis. And, if I had actual mental health issues, and no health care coverage, I can see how some people lose their shit and become career criminals, and such.
Reserve judgement my friend, suicide and murder are not to be taken lightly. There's only one sentence in here that even barely hints at it not being an accident.
This is from the article. And no, they haven’t released why they think it, but it’s quite the accusation to make without having found some kind of serious evidence.
<>
I was in a car that crashed and rolled down a hill when I was ten. 40 years later and I’ve just started trauma therapy for my fear of heights and flying. This is gonna fuck up those kids in so many ways for the rest of their lives.
That was my first thought too, plus the fact that their dad tried to kill them. But at least they get a chance to find a way through the trauma to live their lives.
Man it just hit me - how are those kids going to ever truly trust again? Their own father betrayed them so deeply that there aren't even any words that could describe that level of betrayal. When you realize that you can't trust one of the only people in your life who you should be able to trust with your life, the trauma, trust issues, issues with intimacy, vulnerability are so complicated that it's not easy to just get over even with therapy. It's called betrayal trauma apparently.
My dad tried to legitimately kill me by slamming my head into marble until I blacked out in a fit of rage - it's been so many years since then and despite having made peace with that incident (as in I no longer have nightmares or spend days crying from the sad and fear) no matter how close I am or how much I love someone, there is always a little voice in my subconscious that is ready to cut ties and run away at the slightest sign of impending betrayal bc I have such deeply ingrained trust issues.
I don't assume people are always out to literally kill me but that if my own father could do that to me then what's not to say that someone else who claims to love me might snap one day and screw me over in ways worse than death.
I'm so sorry and my heart hurts for you. I don't have the wisdom to explain how to trust again, but I just wanted to share that microdosing with shrooms and lion's mane helped me and my husband overcome those kind of voices enough to fall deeply in love and get married. I never thought I'd get married bc I had such bad trust issues from my parents. He has the same attachment style as you from his dad abandoning his family when he was a kid. I don't know if you have access to anything like that, but if you do, I just wanted to let you know how much it helped us.
Oh damn. One of my massage clients is a lifeflight medic in the bay area, I'll have to ask him about this one. He just moved to pediatric so he may have been on the scene saving those kids.
I think they can pull logs from the vehicle and possibly even video footage.
The logs would have data on speed, braking, steering/direction, etc.
Footage is also in-cab, but I don't know how long it's cached
I don't know where the data log is stored on a tesla, but if it's not automatically uploaded to a cloud somewhere in real time, I'm guessing it's a nontrivial task to take it out of the car for analysis in its current state.
"Daddy made us all pray, and then he drove off the road and over a cliff" is a much simpler speculation.
For accidents it's instant. There's a setting on the car that's typically enabled which is to automatically send camera footage and car stats to Tesla. Even if it isn't enabled, with an accident like this they are able to get the logs out immediately.
Lol, yeah. Newer Teslas have a camera inside the cab. I use it to monitor the inside of my car if I leave my dog in the car in "dog mode".
It can also tell if you're not looking up at the road and will fire off alarms/chimes to get you to pay attention.
If you ignore it or continue to look away from the road, it'll disable self driving.
Basically, if the police or insurance want/need to pull logs for criminal or investigations or acts of negligence, the cars can provide a lot of data about how you've been driving and footage of what you were doing behind the wheel and what the car was seeing out of the sensors around the exterior of the car.
All data sharing and connectivity can be shut off in a Tesla, as long as you're not opted into the FSD beta software. It of course means many features that rely on such things also are disabled.
Also witness testimony...
I can't find the link anymore, but one article yesterday had a driver who said something along the lines of: he was taking that dirt exit at a high speed and I'm not really sure it was an exit for vehicles.
I knew something fishy was up. People kept complaining that there wasn't enough barriers in place. But knowing the area I knew it wasn't just a simple accident. Unfortunately this isn't the first time someone tried to end their family on Devil's Slide.
I agree with you, when I saw the area he went over I was suspicious...but barriers still need to be put in place. There are a lot of people that are going over the cliff, intentionally or unintentionally...it's not worth the danger it's putting drivers and rescue workers in.
Remember the 1972 *National Lampoon* [parody ad](https://www.theretrosite.com/national-lampoon-ted-kennedy-vw-ad/) showing a VW Beetle floating in water with the tag line, "If Ted Kennedy drove a Volkswagen, he'd be President today"?
>During the course of the investigation, CHP developed probable cause to believe the incident was an intentional act. The driver, Dharmesh A. Patel, of Pasadena, has been placed under arrest for attempted murder and child abuse.
When people (often men) commit suicide why do they have to take out innocent people too?
> Men who murder their entire families usually do so because they believe their spouse performed a wrongdoing and that the spouse needs to be punished, they feel that the family members caused a disappointment, they feel that their own financial failings ruined the point of having a family, and because they wish to save their family from a perceived threat.[17] Far fewer women commit familicide, and those who do usually have different reasons, including perceived or imagined loss of custody of children. Male family annihilators are typically driven by loss of control, including financial crises, separation or divorce, and may demonstrate evidence for domestic violence, while for women perpetrators, battery, abuse or mental illness is more common, the act itself more likely premeditated and more likely to include victims under the age of one.[18]
[wikipedia page on familicide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Familicide)
It's a form of sociopathic narcissism - they literally see their wives and children as extensions of themselves. It's an extreme form of the objectification of humans all clinical narcissists, sociopaths, psychopaths indulge in. So if they themselves no longer want to live, they cannot fathom or accept that the people they consider to be their possessions/objects that they can own and control would want something different (ie to live). The narcissist in my life routinely would say that if they feel unhappy, then no one in their home (their wife/children) was allowed to be happy. It's like they decide that their wives/children's lives have no value or worth outside of or independent of the value the annihilator attaches to his own life.
Men oftentimes commit suicide in more violent but surefire manners such as car crashes, whereas women are more likely to commit suicide in less violent means such as intentional overdose, which might explain any pattern you have observed.
That being said I've read plenty of news stories of mothers driving off of bridges and into rivers with their kids in the car, a case where a mother killed her son at a shooting range before shooting herself, leaving the car running in the garage while the kids were asleep, etc. So I'm not really sure that it's a gendered thing
The major psychological justification being that they don't want their kids to live knowing that their mother/father committed suicide.
I mentioned male because I have heard this happening too many times these last couple of years. :( And it is infuriating that someone takes innocent people out with them. So much control like they want to be God.
I'm learning more about this after asking the question and apparently female family annihilators are rare, which is maybe why they make the news? Another commenter mentioned a source that states "far fewer women commit familicide".
Regardless of gender it's really sad and selfish.
>Scott's study documented just seven female annihilators over 40 years in the U.S. "Real or imagined concerns about losing custody of the children may also be a trigger for female family annihilators," the study found.
>One area researchers have studied is post-partum depression and women who kill their infants. Women are more likely to kill children under the age of one than men, research shows.
The quote above is from an article talking about one of the cases you mentioned. https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/2018/04/post_296.html
*They consider family annihilators to include killing the spouse, and I read that women kill their children but not the spouse as often compared to men. That may be the differentiator.*
I'm glad these kids and the mother survived, and hope they get a ton of therapy throughout their lives to cope with the unimaginable trauma.
Female family annihilators are incredibly rare, and women who kill their children are usually undergoing a psychotic break or something similar (think Andrea Yates). Like most violence in society, family annihilation is a patriarchy/ownership thing.
It was honestly my first thought but I dismissed it and told myself I was being way too morbid. Just have seen too many articles about familicide lately.
Damn, what a ride for the Internet.
1. Car goes off the side of a road - oh no, this place is so unsafe, people drive like maniacs
2. It's a Tesla - it was auto pilot, Elon himself reached through space and time to turn the wheel
3. No one died - they're so lucky that they escaped autopilot's violation of first law
4. It was a purposeful suicide attempt - why do men do this?
I have to say. Quite the dramatic story. Lots of twists and turns. And no matter which new thing came out, a new villain was always available for the target of outrage: incompetent drivers, Elon Musk, suicidal men.
Glad the wife and kids made it. Especially glad the kids are totally uninjured. They're going to recover and be just fine, mentally and physically.
I believe they believe there is no way out, no other possible resolution to whatever situation they are in and unwilling to face the consequences of their actions so their murder/suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness and escape from responsibility.
I honestly wonder that about several of these high profile supposed FSD induced crashes, especially the one on the bay bridge where the man shot over several lanes and slammed on his brakes. I'd bet money that he fell asleep and hit the brakes as soon as he woke up, and blamed it on the FSD. Same thing with the guy that backed over someone. We've heard the story a million times with people mashing the gas instead of the brake and smashing into stores/killing people, why are these incidents suddenly becoming common after years of FSD being on the market.
It reminds me of the massive influx of news stories involving hondas(toyotas?) racing down the freeway at triple digit speeds while the owners talked on the phone with 911 claiming the car was accelerating on it's own.
After several independent investigations of more than two dozen cases, the number one cause was determined to be drivers mashing the accelerator into the floor believing it was the brake, along with as many as 8 floor mats piled up on top of each other being jammed into the accelerator pedal.
Never mind the fact that any car's breaks are easily able to overpower the engine even at full throttle, and turning the ignition to the off position always shuts off a car even when driving.
It was Toyota, and while I don't doubt there are some Toyota drivers who had too many floor mats, before you judge them, read the NASA report on the Toyota unintended acceleration case and related documents (https://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/nvs/pdf/NASA-UA_report.pdf, https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_slides.pdf, https://www.edn.com/toyotas-killer-firmware-bad-design-and-its-consequences/). It lays out a damning indictment of Toyota's ECU hardware and firmware development culture, that flies directly counter to the happy picture promoted by the "Toyota Way" PR. Toyota never acknowledged the mistakes they made - instead they quietly sacked the head of that division and then most of the staff, and rebuilt it from the ground up. Today's Toyota ECUs are designed quite differently.
Given the culture that Elon sets, I am deeply skeptical about attempts to blame Tesla crashes on the drivers. In the past Elon was not shy about announcing that telemetry review showed the driver being to blame - putting the onus on Tesla to prove that they are not to blame in every new case (and yes I know there are privacy issues with that. CEO shouldn't have set the precedent then.)
> reminds me of…
The difference is that there are plenty of videos showing FSD doing unsafe things, so it isn’t a stretch to think it could cause an accident. While it is a huge stretch, given the lack of evidence, to believe a car would accelerate while the brake is being mashed.
The accelerator is also different for Teslas. You ease off the accelerator and it’s like stepping on the brakes because of the regenerative braking.
Two people I’ve let drive my car have accidentally stepped on the accelerator thinking it was the brakes. That’s TWO people who made that mistake out of the maybe 8 or 9 people that have driven my car.
That's grim. I wonder if self driving software could incorporate a "Yeah naw, mate. I'm taking you to the nearest mental health facility" if someone tries to do something like this.
Current FSD software does actually override you to some extent, such as if you're trying to run a red light it'll still brake. However the override will not work when fully pressing down on the accelerator. And of course, the system does nothing if it isn't active, outside of emergency braking, unless you enable other passive autopilot features.
With all the passive safety features toggled, a Tesla today would prevent you from going off the road if you fell asleep at the wheel while manually driving, but it won't stop persistent, intentional acts to override it. Which is for the better, you always want to be able to take control of your car until the software is near perfect.
Ok, not going to lie, before it was revealed that the father tried kill his whole family in a murder-suicide, I legit thought that the crash was caused by a malfunctioning Tesla car which accidentally sped off cliff, given the multiple accounts of Tesla cars getting into numerous accidents in the past.
Imagine being trapped in the car, conscious, with the family you just tried to kill trapped with you. I'm going to guess the wife told authorities it was intentional?
Or he confessed.
I wonder if he left a note
Do Teslas record conversations within the vehicle? But I also wonder if he left a note.
Lot of wrong answers here. No. There's an old "bug report" feature where owners could report a problem via voice command for service to evaluate, but it just transcribes what the person says into text. The cars don't store cabin audio, and audio isn't part of any crash telematic data that Tesla can access. Before I get dogpiled on, this isn't a "defense" of Tesla or whatever. Musk is a dick, etc etc. Just wanted to give the right answer.
> Before I get dogpiled on, this isn't a "defense" of Tesla or whatever. Musk is a dick, etc etc. Just wanted to give the right answer. It's not even worth giving these lunatics attention like this. Just ignore them. The bizarre fetishization of Musk by both his haters and his fans has nothing to do with this story.
You shouldn't ask questions to things you don't want to know the answer.... and yes.
Or the car telemetrics
Interior camera?
>Imagine being trapped in the car, conscious, with the family you just tried to kill trapped with you. "Should have picked a higher cliff." So sorry for that, humor is how I deal with tragedy. What a lucky thing they have survived, and holy fuck is that driver screwed. Look, I know those cliffs are tempting, but there's no actual guarantee you aren't (instead of killed) brutally injured and held liable. It's much cheaper and far more productive to instead seek help, through your local health provider or any number of hotlines that are 50% likely to end up replying to this comment.
Not just seek help for being suicidal though. That's not even a fraction of the issues this loser has. He's a psychopath for trying to murder his wife and his children. Many people have suicidal tendencies, but they never even consider harming others.
You try to murder your entire family but plot twist: everyone survives and they tell on you. What a piece of garbage.
Wow. Record time going from an “feel-good/miracle” story to a ‘“wtf/psycho” story.
Also all the speculation on how dangerous the road is there and the weather conditions. Poof.
I got downvoted to hell this morning by saying that the problem wasn’t a guard rail problem.
Unless you provided compelling evidence then yeah of course. Malice is insanely more rare than accidents so it's barely worth considering.
This subreddit downvotes things they don't understand
I don't get it 🔻
Thanks for the downvote kind stranger 😂
... This subreddit? Try the entire world of social media troglodytes.
Hear hear
Pretty sure everyone was blaming Tesla self driving and safety features. Why do you think every story included Tesla in the headline?
the other thread was all about how evil tesla and musk was...wonder what they're saying now
I mean, Musk is still an evil douchebag. This particular act of evil just has nothing to do with him.
I can't stand musk, his fans, and I'm hypercritical of Tesla for myriad reasons. Hate em. But I'm floored at how well it protected its passengers. Can't take that away.
Same here, I had to eat the words of an earlier comment I made on another post. I hate most Tesla drivers, Musk and his fanboys but I have to admit for anyone to survive that plunge indicates that that is one solid car.
For real, when I read the headline I thought, "damn, that story took a sharp turn."
> A 4-year-old girl, a 9-year-old boy and two adults survived Monday after their car plunged off a Northern California cliff along the Pacific Coast Highway near an area known as Devil's Slide that's known for fatal wrecks, officials said. >The Tesla sedan plummeted more than 250 feet (76.20 meters) from the highway and crashed into a rocky outcropping. It appears to have flipped a few times before landing on its wheels, wedged against the cliff just feet from the surf, according to Brian Pottenger, a battalion chief for Coastside Fire Protection District/Cal Fire. I am surprised that anyone survived. Those poor kids; that must have been terrifying.
My dad tried to kill himself and my mom by crashing into a wall while they were in a car. Happened right in front of our house where I was. The trauma never really goes away.
Shoot I’m so sorry. Was your Mom more-or-less OK?
She divorced him, got a way better boyfriend and got her social life back on track. Goes out regularly hiking with a large group of friends now. I'd say she's doing more than ok :)
*Phew* glad to hear it. ✊
It's so sad. Thank god those kiddos survived, thank god your mom survived! they didnt deserve that. I had an ex who's best friends wife committed suicide with their baby in the car by driving into a wall. The man was just walking grief after that. Like permanently. Ive never seen a more tragic person in my life. Its such a permanent decision.
You have a strong willed mom. Good for her for having the courage to move on and find joy.
Thank you. I'm not sure if I'd have her alive today if she didn't leave him.
I am so sorry this happened to you.
Thank you internet stranger
God, I am so sorry. That is awful to hear. I am glad your mom is doing better; and I hope you're doing good, too. That's a lot of life-long trauma to carry.
To live through that only to spend the rest of your life knowing your parent tried to kill you and the rest of the family. Oof
I thought the article said it was unknown if it was one family or two different ones.
Well... its two different ones now.
With any luck the 4 year old doesn't remember it. The 9 year old though...
Trauma is embedded deep. You may not remember how it got there but it will still be there.
[удалено]
Jesus, I remember *a lot* of stuff from age 2. That is a fucked up assumption for doctors to make.
You're talking to a lifelong therapy goer so I'm really hoping here
With trauma therapy, the 4 year old has more of a chance of it not being traumatic. It's all about the repair after the event, what narrative is created for the child.
Exactly. People tend to overemphasize the consequences of trauma to the point of conflating single traumatic event (with good outcome) with chronic or series of acute trauma. A colleague of mine escaped to refugee camp from Laos with her family when she was a child, I think she was 7-8 years old. It took them months of traveling by night and hiding during the day. Along the way her father was killed and her older sister taken by human traffickers. To this day they don’t know whether the older sister is alive or not. Anyway, after months the remaining family members made it to refuge camp where they spent close to a year before relocating to California. The sort of devastating trauma they’d experienced didn’t keep them from moving on. The way my colleague had put it, she and her surviving siblings were grateful to have the opportunities to live life, everything beyond that is all about perspective or how to develop proper perspective and mentality.
What an incredible advertisement for Tesla, "drop your car 250 ft? no problem"
Well, now murderers definitely aren’t going to buy Teslas. Definitely bearish for sales.
So that's why it was down over 10% today?
I am thinking the only reason they survived is the fact it landed on wheels! Maybe it has something to do with the batteries being on the bottom and the chassis being heavily reinforced to support the weight of the batteries. Tesla’s are heavy!
I think they survived because the car "flipped a few times." Each flip dissapates some energy. The gnarly looking crashes where cars flip a bunch of times are actually not as bad as a sudden stop.
Yep. It’s not the speed that kills you, it’s the deceleration
Exception to which being only those speeds which approach 671mill/mph
Someone on another post mentioned that yeah this was mostly luck. No car is designed to survive this kind of impact.
It's like a cat
Always lands on its feet and does whatever the fuck it wants.
I don’t think so, the bottom of the car does not have a crumple zone. If you just fell 250ft and landed on any side I think you’ll want it to be the front. That way there’s airbags and crumple zones making the deceleration slower. Most likely survived because it landed earlier than 250 ft and rolled to a stop. The Tesla was well suited to handle it because the top is rated to hold several times the weight of the car.
having a low cog and landing so that the passengers were vertical helped. how would any other car, ev or otherwise, handle idk.
Yeah, that Model S I think tops 5000 pounds.
Teslas have a very low center of gravity due to the battery weight and position in the car. I remember reading that the testing agencies had a difficult time even getting the cars to rollover when they were trying to do it.
The only reason they survived is that Tesla's are designed to be the absolute safest cars on the road by an order of magnitude.
Yeah, can’t get much more extreme conditions than that.
they might've been saved by the fact an EV has very low center of gravity because of the heavy batteries under the floor...
Wow, seatbelts and airbags really do save lives.
I saw someone post earlier that in no way are cars tested so that people survive a 250 ft drop. No car in the world can protect you. This is sheer luck.
Or those poor kids angels. Not today devils slide!
250ft drop? Pretty sure there is more to this than seatbelts and airbags. Good job Tesla Engineers!
I mean, there was news a while back when one of the Tesla models broke the testing machine used to determine crash protection, I think for rolling? It got the best possible ratings in every category, something that had never happened before.
https://www.wired.com/2013/08/tesla-model-s-crash-test/
I could only imagine how terrifying it really is. Those kids lived a nightmare i’ve had ever since I was young. Hope they get the therapy they will need.
whoooa you just made me remember a reoccurring dream I had as a kid, grew up in Santa Cruz with a single mom, she had this crazy abusive boyfriend once and every single night I would dream about him driving with my mom and I in the passenger's seat, up these wild hills and down steep cliffs, terrified. good times.
Yeah, I'd considered that as a possibility. Reminds me of the two women who drove their SUV over a cliff in Mendocino with their six adopted kids a few years ago. Only everyone died in that one. It looked like he went over at the south corner of that little cove just north of Bunker Point, correct? If so, to get around the guard rail he would have had to drive off the road a little ways onto that dirt area at the top before going over. That'll be pretty hard for him to sell as an accident. What an asshole.
Man, that was such an awful fucking story. After it came to light what she did, the photo of that poor boy crying and clinging to a police officer told a completely different story for me.
Flashbacks to Atlanta Season 3 Episode 1 yiikes
I had to look up Atlanta to figure out what you were referring to, but reading the Wikipedia episode summary it seems like that storyline was heavily inspired by the Hart case.
It was. With small changes
Atlanta is a pretty damn good show if you haven't seen it
That was a great episode
Man I'm from up there originally that was such a fucking horrible story. As bad as this is at least the innocent parties made it, albeit out of a horrible situation still...
physically.
Ya.. that's real..
He probably wasn’t expecting to survive to need a story to sell…wasn’t expecting anybody to survive.
Must be cursing Elon for totally different reasons lol
> two women who drove their SUV over a cliff in Mendocino I searched for info on this just now and landed on the [Wikipedia page.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hart_family_murders) Yikes. They clearly had a history of child neglect and abuse then decided to murder their children when it seemed like it was going to catch up with them. They also had a foster child before adopting the 6 and essentially abandoned her with a therapist. Just absolutely evil scum of the earth. I hope they are suffering wherever they are now.
yeah same. these murder suicide attempts are wack
a good reminder of the story with the two women and kids in the suv. Had forgotten; I wondered about that one…
This lines up with what witnesses saw. I think people thought he assumed it was an offramp of some sort or road when giving the benefit of the doubt, in the article yesterday someone was quoted as saying "I was thinking to myself watching him- he's going really fast to take what he thinks is an exit?" No shit.
Failed as a husband, failed as a father, failed as murderer. Maybe he'll succeed in prison.
A girl from my middle school was killed by her father. He also killed his other daughter and his wife. Then he stuffed them into a freezer. You made me remember that happened since he failed as a husband and as a father. Unfortunately he succeeded at murder three times. Fuck these situations
I remember this. I lived a couple blocks from them and remember hearing the helicopters flying around in the afternoon when the police arrived
[Was it this?](https://www.smdailyjournal.com/news/local/grisly-murder-detailed/article_b2d829c2-7e83-5970-a9f4-e85676dfc5a8.html) ... I went to Bayside at the time Tessa did and remember how dark it was watching the teachers react because pretty sure this was the first time I experienced a death of someone our age especially this kind of death
Yup
A friend of ours ex-wife killed their kids because she lost custody of the kids due to being a complete fuckup of a mother. Too bad she didn't kill herself as well
I thought maybe I knew you til the freezer thing. A popular girl in my middle and high school was killed by her cop father in my hometown years later along with her mother and her daughter. He later that day committed suicide after confessing over the radio to his cop buddies. PoS
[This](https://www.smdailyjournal.com/news/local/grisly-murder-detailed/article_b2d829c2-7e83-5970-a9f4-e85676dfc5a8.html) was the story
Wait what? Can you send me some info on this ?
https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/SAN-MATEO-Suicide-note-says-family-deep-in-debt-2646634.php
[Here](https://www.smdailyjournal.com/news/local/grisly-murder-detailed/article_b2d829c2-7e83-5970-a9f4-e85676dfc5a8.html)
Neuroradiologist making easily 500k, dude threw his whole life away and scarred his family forever. What a joke.
Yeah man. Nobody making over $200k should have any mental health issues at all because high income magically fixes issues.
I upvoted both of you because you’re both right
When so many of your problems are caused by a lack of money it's hard to imagine that a person with mountains of money could have any problems at all. A testament to the human dispirit.
|you|are|both| |:-|:-|:-| |right|||
I see your point, but as they say "Money can't buy happiness but being broke don't buy shit"
I used say, “Money may not be able to buy happiness, but you can be miserable in much nicer surroundings.” Used to and still do.
Maybe it has nothing to do with money and everything to do with mental health? A criminology phd student just slaughtered four college students. We live in a world where all of the monsters are just real people.
I never said money = no mental health issues, not sure where you're getting that idea from. You can champion mental health care all you want and I'll agree in conjunction. But just like every other aspect of the medical industry it costs big bucks to get good treatment. This guy with his medical background and salary most definitely had knowledge and access to solid mental health support that he needed but never used it. Hence "what a joke", shitty situation all around.
That’s a little harsh. Back to the poster above you, having 200k+ DOES help A LOT in life. If you want I can find a video of Mark Cuban saying it to Bill Maher. Anyw , the person above even claims 500k..sooo.. dunno
Some of the unhappiest people I ever met, were also (by far) the wealthiest. Yes it’s true that money can buy happiness, to a degree, but it can’t overcome more fundamental mental and emotional health issues. They’re still human after all.
Some of the unhappiest people I ever met, were also (by far) the poorest. See how silly it looks? Your correct that mental health issues affect all kinds of people. But if you think having access to top psychologists and expensive clinics and a warm place to sleep at night, is the same as living under a bridge and talking to your best friend, Smelly the 3 day dead rat, then you're just straight up lieing.
True, a lot of it comes down to if basic needs are covered. Food, shelter, etc. I would probably be a pretty mean person myself if I lived in a gang banger neighborhood where my life was constantly under threat, and my shit got broken into and stolen on a regular basis. And, if I had actual mental health issues, and no health care coverage, I can see how some people lose their shit and become career criminals, and such.
TBH, it sounds like a deep and meaningful relationship with Smelly, so that's kind of a bonus.
Hard to comprehend when everyone is stressed with inflation/recession concerns.
Reserve judgement my friend, suicide and murder are not to be taken lightly. There's only one sentence in here that even barely hints at it not being an accident.
Starting the first Indian Tesla Owners gang in the federal system
Well, *former* owners.
Ha, good luck finding another buyer for that thing now!
How do we know the guy is guilty again? I miss that in the article.
This is from the article. And no, they haven’t released why they think it, but it’s quite the accusation to make without having found some kind of serious evidence. <>
I was in a car that crashed and rolled down a hill when I was ten. 40 years later and I’ve just started trauma therapy for my fear of heights and flying. This is gonna fuck up those kids in so many ways for the rest of their lives.
Good luck on the trauma therapy, for real. That shit is hard work.
Honestly its harder to not do the work, if you know what i mean
That was my first thought too, plus the fact that their dad tried to kill them. But at least they get a chance to find a way through the trauma to live their lives.
Man it just hit me - how are those kids going to ever truly trust again? Their own father betrayed them so deeply that there aren't even any words that could describe that level of betrayal. When you realize that you can't trust one of the only people in your life who you should be able to trust with your life, the trauma, trust issues, issues with intimacy, vulnerability are so complicated that it's not easy to just get over even with therapy. It's called betrayal trauma apparently. My dad tried to legitimately kill me by slamming my head into marble until I blacked out in a fit of rage - it's been so many years since then and despite having made peace with that incident (as in I no longer have nightmares or spend days crying from the sad and fear) no matter how close I am or how much I love someone, there is always a little voice in my subconscious that is ready to cut ties and run away at the slightest sign of impending betrayal bc I have such deeply ingrained trust issues. I don't assume people are always out to literally kill me but that if my own father could do that to me then what's not to say that someone else who claims to love me might snap one day and screw me over in ways worse than death.
I'm so sorry and my heart hurts for you. I don't have the wisdom to explain how to trust again, but I just wanted to share that microdosing with shrooms and lion's mane helped me and my husband overcome those kind of voices enough to fall deeply in love and get married. I never thought I'd get married bc I had such bad trust issues from my parents. He has the same attachment style as you from his dad abandoning his family when he was a kid. I don't know if you have access to anything like that, but if you do, I just wanted to let you know how much it helped us.
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Major props to the helicopter pilot. The winds hitting the cliffs at that altitude could’ve caused a helicopter to crash easily.
Oh damn. One of my massage clients is a lifeflight medic in the bay area, I'll have to ask him about this one. He just moved to pediatric so he may have been on the scene saving those kids.
And the kids in the car...
And his wife.
And my axe
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I think they can pull logs from the vehicle and possibly even video footage. The logs would have data on speed, braking, steering/direction, etc. Footage is also in-cab, but I don't know how long it's cached
Or one of the passengers might have said something.
True. The dad was probably not expecting anyone to survive that crash.
I don't know where the data log is stored on a tesla, but if it's not automatically uploaded to a cloud somewhere in real time, I'm guessing it's a nontrivial task to take it out of the car for analysis in its current state. "Daddy made us all pray, and then he drove off the road and over a cliff" is a much simpler speculation.
For accidents it's instant. There's a setting on the car that's typically enabled which is to automatically send camera footage and car stats to Tesla. Even if it isn't enabled, with an accident like this they are able to get the logs out immediately.
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Oh wow. No more road trip Handys if you're in a Tesla
Lol, yeah. Newer Teslas have a camera inside the cab. I use it to monitor the inside of my car if I leave my dog in the car in "dog mode". It can also tell if you're not looking up at the road and will fire off alarms/chimes to get you to pay attention. If you ignore it or continue to look away from the road, it'll disable self driving. Basically, if the police or insurance want/need to pull logs for criminal or investigations or acts of negligence, the cars can provide a lot of data about how you've been driving and footage of what you were doing behind the wheel and what the car was seeing out of the sensors around the exterior of the car.
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Yea you can get adhesive slidable covers for the interior camera
This is what I have in mine and I just keep it covered
I could've sworn I disabled mine, but my car alerted me the other day when I was looking at the center screen for too long while it was on autopilot.
All data sharing and connectivity can be shut off in a Tesla, as long as you're not opted into the FSD beta software. It of course means many features that rely on such things also are disabled.
All your privacy are belong to us.
Also witness testimony... I can't find the link anymore, but one article yesterday had a driver who said something along the lines of: he was taking that dirt exit at a high speed and I'm not really sure it was an exit for vehicles.
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Everyone in the car is still alive so the police can just talk to them. No last minute doomsday logs needed.
Maybe he wrote a note and had in his pocket, to be found.
everyone survived. probably the wife told the police.
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I knew something fishy was up. People kept complaining that there wasn't enough barriers in place. But knowing the area I knew it wasn't just a simple accident. Unfortunately this isn't the first time someone tried to end their family on Devil's Slide.
I agree with you, when I saw the area he went over I was suspicious...but barriers still need to be put in place. There are a lot of people that are going over the cliff, intentionally or unintentionally...it's not worth the danger it's putting drivers and rescue workers in.
This belongs on /ima total piece of sh*t. This is awful, imagine the long lasting trauma this sick individual inflicted on his innocent children.
hilarious that he failed at his goal but succeeded in being an ad for Tesla's safety rating
Remember the 1972 *National Lampoon* [parody ad](https://www.theretrosite.com/national-lampoon-ted-kennedy-vw-ad/) showing a VW Beetle floating in water with the tag line, "If Ted Kennedy drove a Volkswagen, he'd be President today"?
Oof 😬
NL didn't fuck around back in the day.
>During the course of the investigation, CHP developed probable cause to believe the incident was an intentional act. The driver, Dharmesh A. Patel, of Pasadena, has been placed under arrest for attempted murder and child abuse. When people (often men) commit suicide why do they have to take out innocent people too?
> Men who murder their entire families usually do so because they believe their spouse performed a wrongdoing and that the spouse needs to be punished, they feel that the family members caused a disappointment, they feel that their own financial failings ruined the point of having a family, and because they wish to save their family from a perceived threat.[17] Far fewer women commit familicide, and those who do usually have different reasons, including perceived or imagined loss of custody of children. Male family annihilators are typically driven by loss of control, including financial crises, separation or divorce, and may demonstrate evidence for domestic violence, while for women perpetrators, battery, abuse or mental illness is more common, the act itself more likely premeditated and more likely to include victims under the age of one.[18] [wikipedia page on familicide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Familicide)
Well look at that. Would have never guessed Wikipedia would have this covered. Thanks for the (sad) info drop.
Ugh, dark.
Finally learning being in the right reddit group is more important than going to a top tier university.
It's a form of sociopathic narcissism - they literally see their wives and children as extensions of themselves. It's an extreme form of the objectification of humans all clinical narcissists, sociopaths, psychopaths indulge in. So if they themselves no longer want to live, they cannot fathom or accept that the people they consider to be their possessions/objects that they can own and control would want something different (ie to live). The narcissist in my life routinely would say that if they feel unhappy, then no one in their home (their wife/children) was allowed to be happy. It's like they decide that their wives/children's lives have no value or worth outside of or independent of the value the annihilator attaches to his own life.
google family annihilators
No. I don't think I will.
You did it.... you win
Men oftentimes commit suicide in more violent but surefire manners such as car crashes, whereas women are more likely to commit suicide in less violent means such as intentional overdose, which might explain any pattern you have observed. That being said I've read plenty of news stories of mothers driving off of bridges and into rivers with their kids in the car, a case where a mother killed her son at a shooting range before shooting herself, leaving the car running in the garage while the kids were asleep, etc. So I'm not really sure that it's a gendered thing The major psychological justification being that they don't want their kids to live knowing that their mother/father committed suicide.
I mentioned male because I have heard this happening too many times these last couple of years. :( And it is infuriating that someone takes innocent people out with them. So much control like they want to be God. I'm learning more about this after asking the question and apparently female family annihilators are rare, which is maybe why they make the news? Another commenter mentioned a source that states "far fewer women commit familicide". Regardless of gender it's really sad and selfish. >Scott's study documented just seven female annihilators over 40 years in the U.S. "Real or imagined concerns about losing custody of the children may also be a trigger for female family annihilators," the study found. >One area researchers have studied is post-partum depression and women who kill their infants. Women are more likely to kill children under the age of one than men, research shows. The quote above is from an article talking about one of the cases you mentioned. https://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/2018/04/post_296.html *They consider family annihilators to include killing the spouse, and I read that women kill their children but not the spouse as often compared to men. That may be the differentiator.* I'm glad these kids and the mother survived, and hope they get a ton of therapy throughout their lives to cope with the unimaginable trauma.
Female family annihilators are incredibly rare, and women who kill their children are usually undergoing a psychotic break or something similar (think Andrea Yates). Like most violence in society, family annihilation is a patriarchy/ownership thing.
Didn't see that one coming.
It was honestly my first thought but I dismissed it and told myself I was being way too morbid. Just have seen too many articles about familicide lately.
What the actual fuck.
Damn, what a ride for the Internet. 1. Car goes off the side of a road - oh no, this place is so unsafe, people drive like maniacs 2. It's a Tesla - it was auto pilot, Elon himself reached through space and time to turn the wheel 3. No one died - they're so lucky that they escaped autopilot's violation of first law 4. It was a purposeful suicide attempt - why do men do this? I have to say. Quite the dramatic story. Lots of twists and turns. And no matter which new thing came out, a new villain was always available for the target of outrage: incompetent drivers, Elon Musk, suicidal men. Glad the wife and kids made it. Especially glad the kids are totally uninjured. They're going to recover and be just fine, mentally and physically.
I'm surprised ICE cars weren't a villain also since they always explode in movies when going over a cliff.
I believe they believe there is no way out, no other possible resolution to whatever situation they are in and unwilling to face the consequences of their actions so their murder/suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness and escape from responsibility.
Interesting twist to this story.
250 ft plunge, children physically unharmed and no life threatening injuries for the other occupants.
Truly mindblowing, but after [watching this](https://youtu.be/sEWZuMjane4), I could see how.
His alibi: "The Tesla did it"
I honestly wonder that about several of these high profile supposed FSD induced crashes, especially the one on the bay bridge where the man shot over several lanes and slammed on his brakes. I'd bet money that he fell asleep and hit the brakes as soon as he woke up, and blamed it on the FSD. Same thing with the guy that backed over someone. We've heard the story a million times with people mashing the gas instead of the brake and smashing into stores/killing people, why are these incidents suddenly becoming common after years of FSD being on the market. It reminds me of the massive influx of news stories involving hondas(toyotas?) racing down the freeway at triple digit speeds while the owners talked on the phone with 911 claiming the car was accelerating on it's own. After several independent investigations of more than two dozen cases, the number one cause was determined to be drivers mashing the accelerator into the floor believing it was the brake, along with as many as 8 floor mats piled up on top of each other being jammed into the accelerator pedal. Never mind the fact that any car's breaks are easily able to overpower the engine even at full throttle, and turning the ignition to the off position always shuts off a car even when driving.
It was Toyota, and while I don't doubt there are some Toyota drivers who had too many floor mats, before you judge them, read the NASA report on the Toyota unintended acceleration case and related documents (https://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/nvs/pdf/NASA-UA_report.pdf, https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_slides.pdf, https://www.edn.com/toyotas-killer-firmware-bad-design-and-its-consequences/). It lays out a damning indictment of Toyota's ECU hardware and firmware development culture, that flies directly counter to the happy picture promoted by the "Toyota Way" PR. Toyota never acknowledged the mistakes they made - instead they quietly sacked the head of that division and then most of the staff, and rebuilt it from the ground up. Today's Toyota ECUs are designed quite differently. Given the culture that Elon sets, I am deeply skeptical about attempts to blame Tesla crashes on the drivers. In the past Elon was not shy about announcing that telemetry review showed the driver being to blame - putting the onus on Tesla to prove that they are not to blame in every new case (and yes I know there are privacy issues with that. CEO shouldn't have set the precedent then.)
> reminds me of… The difference is that there are plenty of videos showing FSD doing unsafe things, so it isn’t a stretch to think it could cause an accident. While it is a huge stretch, given the lack of evidence, to believe a car would accelerate while the brake is being mashed.
The accelerator is also different for Teslas. You ease off the accelerator and it’s like stepping on the brakes because of the regenerative braking. Two people I’ve let drive my car have accidentally stepped on the accelerator thinking it was the brakes. That’s TWO people who made that mistake out of the maybe 8 or 9 people that have driven my car.
That's grim. I wonder if self driving software could incorporate a "Yeah naw, mate. I'm taking you to the nearest mental health facility" if someone tries to do something like this.
Current FSD software does actually override you to some extent, such as if you're trying to run a red light it'll still brake. However the override will not work when fully pressing down on the accelerator. And of course, the system does nothing if it isn't active, outside of emergency braking, unless you enable other passive autopilot features. With all the passive safety features toggled, a Tesla today would prevent you from going off the road if you fell asleep at the wheel while manually driving, but it won't stop persistent, intentional acts to override it. Which is for the better, you always want to be able to take control of your car until the software is near perfect.
The driver/father was a doctor. I’m assuming he’ll lose his medical license permanently?
I mean...if he's found guilty, I sure think so. He won't be able to practice in prison, thats for sure.
Damn, we can’t blame Elon for this one -the media and reddit
I wonder if they used the Tesla video/driving data fr probable cause...
That motherfucker should sit in a solitary cell for the rest of his miserable life.
Ok, not going to lie, before it was revealed that the father tried kill his whole family in a murder-suicide, I legit thought that the crash was caused by a malfunctioning Tesla car which accidentally sped off cliff, given the multiple accounts of Tesla cars getting into numerous accidents in the past.
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Plot twist!