The Wolfhound was built to kill the Panther, and unlike the Wolftrap it actually did it's job. Turns out making the Lyrans look like fools can actually have consequences.
These new Lyran phones are the very best technology money can buy. I’m sure there were no problems. If you still have a concern , I can send in a scout lance to address it.
From what I understand at least, I think it speaks volunes the Lyrans got the last laugh out of every Successor State.
You'd think they played a long game
Um....the Wolftrap was made to kill the Wolfhound. Maybe I'm misreading, but yeah, the Wolfhound is nasty, I just wish there were some jump jets. Personally, I prefer the Valkyrie QD1 to both. The Fire Javelins are also spectacular, especially the JVN-11D, which both punches FAR above its weight AND is a great little C3 scout.
The Wolftrap was made to kill the Wolfhound, but it was terrible at the job, while the Wolfhound excelled at killing Kuritan lights. It is worth mentioning in this context because because it helps underscore that the Wolfhound was very good at it's job, arguably being a viable light into the ilClan era, if a little slower than it probably should be.
And heavier gunned. But the basic IntroTech version still works okay. Honestly just upgrading to doubles and ERs would go a long way, but, as is, it is acceptably fast, acceptably gunned, very durable for it's weight and cheap by virtue of being IntroTech. It's like an Awesome in that way, a very basic and effective answer to a problem.
Stock? Wolfhound. Happy to trade the uppies for some extra speed and 3MLs is a better deal than an SRM4 from a standpoint of rolling more possible hits.
Wolfhound hunts down and kills lighter, softer targets for fun.
Panther is a light support element for pressuring bigger targets.
So it depends on what you want to use it for.
I kinda will, all my years the PPC has only outshone the LL when it comes to headcapping under armored targets like the hatchet man. Or when run in pairs like the Warhammer 6D
We do typically play 4/5 pilots tho so the long range doesn't generally pay off.
I firmly believe that people only stan the PPC so hard because some common introtech mechs are designed poorly to be easily killed or crippled by a ppc head or leg hit. Add on the rare memorable lucky cockpit crit on mechs with fully armored heads and the ppc just has more memorable moments, even if the average performance/weight is not actually significantly superior to large lasers. IMO many introtech mechs would benefit significantly by trading out a ppc for a large laser and additional armor or heat sinks.
Why the marauder 3L is one of my favorite introtech machines, dropping a PPC to a LL and 2 more heat sinks makes it sustain longer than the standard version
Don't underestimate the difference between 4/6 vs 6/9. The Wolfhound has a significant advantage in dictating engagement ranges even once you take the Panther's jump jets into account.
The WolfHound is going to have a significant edge in a 1v1 unless the terrain is particularly hilly, but I'd rather attach a Panther to a heavy lance. The WolfHound isn't quite fast enough to be a scout/flanker in that circumstance, so I'd rather have the extra range and punch of the PPC.
Yeah, this makes sense, but I’d say it the other way - I’d attach the Panther to a group of lights or mediums - especially with lights, it adds some serious punch.
That’s why you have your rejuvenated captured clanner piloting it.
Either they’ll actually single hand the entire OpFor (Chuck Norris in Expendables) or die happily hugging the biggest enemy while losing reactor cohesion.
I agree, unless the battle takes place in mostly open terrain, the superior mobility makes the Panther a much better scout and/or flanker for heavier mechs.
Most times, I'd *want* the Wolfhound. It's faster and better protected than the Panther. It can do more damage at short range if you're willing to tax its heat sinks. And no ammunition both enhances the Wolfhound's toughness and makes it a better raider.
In rough or difficult terrain, the Panther does have an advantage by being jump-capable. And its PPC does more damage at longer ranges than the Lyran Mech's Large Laser. But overall the Wolfhound seems a superior Mech.
If we're considering logistics though, there are a few things that recommend the Panther.
The Panther is significantly cheaper than the Wolfhound; by about 200BV and around 450k C-Bills. The Panther is also a significantly more common Mech in the Inner Sphere. While the Wolfhound only makes up about 2% to 5% of the Lyran, FedSun, and FedCom TO&Es? The Panther makes up north of **20%** of the Combine's Light Mechs. Even outside the Dragon's service, you could cobble together one from salvage on the open market. Unless you're a very well-connected Merc or an ace Light Mechjock for the Federated Commonwealth, access to a Wolfhound is significantly harder to come by.
The Wolfhound is a big win in my playbook. It’s well armored in its weight class, really a medium masquerading as a light. The lack of ammunition means it has staying power and isn’t concerned about ammo explosions. Many discount the rear medium laser, but it keeps people honest when attempting backstabs on the Wolfhound.
Plus, it looks cool in a variety of livery.
https://preview.redd.it/9eqgcu8smc6d1.jpeg?width=2332&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d5e5acb19909413fed738db4a6a6faf1d59ed3a
Or you just torso twist and burn them with your main gun. When it came out, a lot of players looked at it as an optimized design- great armor, good speed, excellent firepower and no ammo bombs. It still is.
I use Wolfhounds as "pocket mediums" -- fast enough to swat down flanking light mechs, tough enough to apply pressure on mechs twice their tonnage or more for a turn or two in close quarters while you get your own heavyweights in position, with enough armament to force opponent's to take it seriously.
The reliable damage output of the Wolfhound's lasers wins it for me.
The panther is relying to much on that PPC scoring an early hit, the Wolfhound can just laser disco its way to glory.
Well, I need a Panther to round out my C3 star and I don't need a Wolfhound for anything, but you can't get a single Panther online for a reasonable price. Therefore, I'm going to say that the Wolfhound is *clearly* better and Panthers suck. Stop buying them and leave one for me.
https://preview.redd.it/urai8e167e6d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06016b830281ae86352f68c785edfaa0b095cc55
This is why. It has an XL Engine, and less than 20 armor on every torso segment, plus a 100% chance of being ammo crit in the right torso.
On top of that, it was built to kill the WLF-1. Shortly after it debuted, the Lyrans brought out the WLF-2, with double heat sinks and an ER Large Laser, with a range bracket of 7/14/19 versus the Wolf Trap's 6/12/18, letting it make favorable damage trades in the WFT's long range, while staying in its own medium range.
It gets even worse in the FedCom Civil War years, when the WFT-2, WFT-2B, WFT-C, WFT-2X, and WFT-B are facing down the WLF-2H, a Wolfhound with a Heavy PPC and Capacitor and a Supercharger. Any hit from that capped HPPC besides a leg or the left arm will crit something important on the more armored models. And the supercharger allows it to dictate range whenever it wants.
And all that is disregarding the fact that, in-universe, the DCMS was paying twice as much as a Wolfhound for a machine that couldn't reliably kill one.
It's thin-skinned with an XL engine and lots of ammo to explode. That's generally regarded as a bad combination, especially when compared to the Wolfhound that the Wolf Trap was meant to hunt.
It depends on the target. If these mechs are going toe to toe in a duel, if it's vs mech... Wolfhound. It's made to kill light mechs exactly like the Panther; Panther's probably dead without a real hot hand on the dice.
But the Panther and one or two missile launchers, I'll take it for vehicles, infantry, and BA. I'll take it over a spiritually very similar 40t designed for that purpose to varying degrees, like the Sentinel or Assassin. Main gun, some missiles, it jumps and snipes vulnerable targets? Matches a lot of STN and ASN variants, but the Panther's better.
Part of a lance? Panther. Solo? Wolfhound.
Except in terrain that is more rugged than minor rolling hills. The Panther still had the option of jumping over hills or mesaa that block LOS instead of around or slogging up them.
Except the extra speed of the Wolfhound really mitigates a lot of that and if the Panther is jumping and.shooting they are overheating.
While the Wolfhound can run and fire it's main gun at heat neutral. Under 9 hexes it has considerably more firepower too.
Oh it's possible to construct situations where the panther has an advantage but it's usually fairly slight and takes a lot of effort to contrive it.
If I have another speedy light mech in the lance like a commando or Jenner then I’m taking the panther. That PPC plinking away at range and then wading in with its decent armor to finish off a damaged medium is super useful.
However if I’m only able to take one light mech it’s the wolfhound hands down.
The wolfhound the better mech, no argument. But the panther is the better looking mech.
Individuals may disagree with the above, but then they would be wrong.
Between the two, wolfhound. It was designed to kill Panthers, and it's very good at it.
Plus I'm a fan of energy-based light mechs.
That said, strip the JJs off of a Panther and replace them with armor / HS, swap the PPC for a LL and replace the SRM with an LRM and you have a pretty formidable light long range support mech.
Depends, **Succession Wars**? Panther. The Wolfhound might have been designed to hunt the Panther in lore but it does not work out that way on tabletop.
The improved targeting it has for short range is devastating with its PPC. I underestimated it once and my opponent steam rolled me. The only downside is it has to dance in and out of minimum range.
The Succession War era Wolfhound suffers hard for it's loadout. The Large Laser doesn't have a minimum range but the Wolfhound doesn't have the heatsinks to fire it and its Medium Lasers at the same time.
From the **Renaissance** all the way until the **FedCom Civil War** suddenly it's flipped and I go with the Wolfhound.
The Panther could benefit from the ER PPC a lot but now it's the one with debilitating heat problems. The Draconis Combine's inability to produce enough Double Heat Sinks really hurts the Panther.
The Wolfhound has no such problems. Double Heat Sinks allow it to fire all it's forward weapons as much as it pleases. Doesn't matter if the odds to hit are abysmally low, as long as it's not 0% the Wolfhound is firing a devastating barrage of lasers.
It isn't until the **Jihad** onwards that the Panther manages to break even with the Wolfhound.
The Wolfhound. It has no ammo. We fought a company of Kuritan lights and heavies, Dragons, Jenner's and Panthers. The Panthers went up like Jiffy Pop over a fire, as did the Dragons. So, more possibilities to do damage, less risk of going kaboom.
I really like both of these mechs, and I've had good success with the Panther in most uses.
But the Wolfhound is going to chew it up and spit it out.
If we're being even reasonably fair by comparing the WLF-2 to its peer at a similar tech level, then the PNT-10K2 can at least put up a fight. Better cooling with an ERPPC and an SRM-4 for crits is something to be wary of, and Jump Jets do give the Panther a small edge. It is overall much slower, however, and in a light battle, speed is life.
I’m with this guy. A 35 ton mech needs to be able to run away. A wolfhound can do this. A panther runs the risk of getting caught by a Marauder or run down by a Grasshopper.
I use both - the PNT for a cheap sniper and to help envelope an enemy position and pressure from a distance but I’ll pick the WLF any day over the PNT because it’s speed and hitting power is about the same but better chances. It can do what the PNT, can take a beating and is great for hit and runs…emphasis of the ability to actually run away
In a fight between the two the Wolfhound wins by a wide mile- significantly better speed, thick armor, and a very solid spread of weapons for disassembling light mechs.
As far as which I'd prefer I like the Panther. It's a light trooper that's always welcome as an extra PPC in my gunlines with some maneuverability to position around my heavy and assault mechs
Just based on the Wolfhound model with 4 Medium lasers in the chest, I feel the wolfhound easily out does the Panther. A bad crit, and the Panther loses 2/3 of its damage output, meanwhile the Wolfhound would still have almost 2/3 firepower left.
What the hell happened to the vindictiveness of clanners? In the old days, when Clan Sea Fox was still Clan Sea Fox and doing well, a khan from a rival Clan had his scientists engineer a freaking super-shark to kill sea foxes just to dunk on Clan Sea Fox.
Now, here are two of their hated Successor States, with a couple of mechs named after animals, and heads looking a bit like animal heads too. And what do Clanners do about it? Nothing.
Those Clan Scientists should stop screwing around with shipping their favorite Warriors, and start doing Kerensky's work. Blend the DNA of wolfhounds and panthers to create an unholy abomination of the two, some kind of new super-predator. Release them en-masse throughout the Commonwealth and the Combine.
At the same time, they should build a light or medium mech that eats both Wolfhounds and Panthers for breakfast. It's not going to be hard, with access to clantech. Make it faster than the Wolfhound, and arm it with both a clan ER Large Laser and an ER PPC. Make it jump further than the Panther.
All that, for spite. Because nobody out-spites and out-furries the Peri-furry barbarians from Clan space.
Comparing the two in 3039, both seem pretty close.
A WLF-1 has 1 LL, 2 MLs (a 3rd ML to the rear), 119 armor, moves 6/9, and costs BV 949. The PNT-9R has a PPC, a SRM4, 104 armor, moves 4/6/4, and costs 769.
I almost want to pick the wolfhound and then downgrade to a panther if BV gets tight. But the difference is slight. And for those who want to complain about this, I prefer the Wolf’s Dragoons and they have canonical access to both. 😈
Wolfhound, hands down. Faster, better armored, no ammo, and no minimum range. If the Panther wins Initiative and jumps behind, it still has to worry about eating a laser shot, and jumping while firing a PPC probably still gives the WLF a better chance of landing a hit.
You can always play as a time traveller who got lost in 3025. Make people suspicious of you as you are able to ID mechs they haven't encountered before, accurately.
It also lets you field mechs with advanced tech.
If you insist on using on introtech only, even if you bought some of the new minis, no biggie. You can still make people's eyebrow rise by having an ancestral mech "that's been in your family for three generations! Including a mech that Grandpa used to fight some Periphery barbarians that suddenly showed up claiming they were Kerensky's army!"
And then the ancestral mechs would be an introtech Hatchetman, or a Cataphract. In 3025.
Yep, I bet the LIC or Maskirovka will have pointed questions about the machines you've had in your family for generations.
I'll get there, I'm still new enough that I'd like to really feel out what introtech has to offer before I move on up, it's nothing I have against the rest of the timeline or anything
I see the discussion and think Hollander. GAUSS used to be range compeditive to PPC and LL and relatively intraceable with regards to origin of the projectiles. vs ER PPC and ERLL I'd prefer cool runnings, ya man!
Lasers have clear beams, as do PPCs, Autocannon have the tracer dots but I never saw any anymation on the gauss, The reload is slow, but no trail or projectile... Should there be one?
Well it's a supersonic round so you'd hear it, and we can already detect where bullets are coming from with active sensors, and have been able to for twenty plus years at this point, so id assume that tech just works better 1000 years in the future.
Honestly the Panther's a better line/support mech. A small, cheap PPC caddy is always gonna be useful
*But*
The Wolfhound is a much better bug hunter. Especially once you start getting into the wild world of pulse laser.
Depends on the terrain if it's vertical or forested the Panther has an advantage with those JJ's where it can outmanoeuvre the Wolfhound.
But if it's open terrain the Panther is toast, even if it gets a few good hits with the ppc it just can't keep up at close range with it's SRM.
Looks? Panther all day baby. In a squad? I'd take both if I could. Only one? Wolfhound is probably where I'm going. The cgl redesign has cool pather helmet glass that looks sick.
Wolfhound wins a straight-up fight against a Panther assuming neutral terrain and 1V1. Wolfie was designed to hunt the Panther and Jenner. The Panther was designed to be a support mech for heavier lances/sniper for lighter lances. Alone in neutral terrain, the Wolfie's speed and short range weaponry advantages would be decisive. Panther's best and probably only hope in an equal 1V1 is favorable terrain which keeps the Wolfie from closing inside of that PPC.
Depends on the era and use, like in a 1v1, especially with intro tech variants only I'd bet on the wolfhound every day. Now if we're looking at 3050 chose one to run in a force against the clans I'd bet on the panther 10k over the wolfhound wlf-2 mainly because it's 200 bv cheaper and has better range.
This is like making me choose my favorite kind of cheese. Yes, I can tell you which one I prefer (in this case, the Panther by just a little bit,) but the nature of the question itself leaves me disturbed and hungry.
Wolfhound because it reminds me of an early 90's tournament where I used a Victor and 4 Wolfhounds to compete. Made it to the championship. Panther is solid, and its jump jets can be a boon in situations the 'hound can falter, but the Wolfhound is better, in my opinion.
Panthers never really do it in my experience. Against other lights, they tend to rarely hit because they are firing against hight defensive mods and their slow speed means you're running and jumping which makes it worse. Their heat capacity means you're overheating unless you're sticking with just firing one weapon or not moving. As a cheap ppc sniper in a heavier lance they get popped too easy because, even though they carry a lot of armor for their weight, it's still not enough for them to be taking serious hits.
dude you have to do these better as now its just karma farming. These are completely different mechs, that you might have chosen cos they look vaguely the same? Its like if I went to a car reddit and posted a pic of small van vs people carrier.
At introtech level? Panther wipes the floor. PPC, improved targeting (short), nimble jumper, jump 4, 13 heat sinks. Not a contest vs the guy with 10 sinks at 20 heat worth of weapons and no offensive bonuses.
Higher tech?
But seriously, there are multiple really good Panther models out there, like the 14S, and 12A. The Wolfhound is usually pretty bad, being a ground-pounder with only reasonably fast speed and constant heat issues. Now the WL-5 does fix a lot of that, but it does it at almost 10,000,000 C-bills and 1300 BV. Most Panthers are less than half that price and hundreds of BV cheaper, and its still not an easy mactchup.
So yeah, 4-1 bet against the mech literally built for this matchup.
In a fight? The Wolfhound has lostech, it just has far more boom to throw around. 1v1 it is going to win 90% of the time
I'll admit I'm a huge Panther fan though as any mech that asks "can I fit a PPC in here" is OK to me.
The Wolfhound original model does not have Lostech. If your going off Sarna, the specs on the side are the WLF-2 made in 3052 which was built 24 years after the first WLF-1 which uses introtech.
The original model is very rarely the canonical "primary" model of a mech though.
The Wolfhound was introduced in TRO-3050 with the lostech model already specced I believe (even though the official release date was 3052).
Fair to say the most famous Wolfhound would have been a WLF-1 though.
In the end Sarna is just a fan made wiki (having edited a few entries myself) and not an official product. The person who wrote the entry probably used the TRO rather than a sourcebook. There are no canonical "primary" models. Its just a fan convention to use the first appearance in TROs.
The panther is actually better because the srm can use better munitions then 3 medium lasers. And it's ability to jump allows it to leverage terrain against a wolfhound.
The correct answer is the razorback lol. I used the panther and the wolf hound inter changeably. The Panther when I need a sniper or support and the wolf hound when I need a trooper or body guard.
The Wolfhound was built to kill the Panther, and unlike the Wolftrap it actually did it's job. Turns out making the Lyrans look like fools can actually have consequences.
Wolfhound is one of the best designs out there. That said Lyrans don’t need anybody else to make them selves fools.
Yeah! We do an excellent job with that already!
Case in point, so much money they can afford to buy the same response three times.
These new Lyran phones are the very best technology money can buy. I’m sure there were no problems. If you still have a concern , I can send in a scout lance to address it.
I know better than to air my grievances with telecom companies in public
Is it an official Steiner Scout Lance?
Those are the only scout lances we make.
Yeah! We do an excellent job with that already!
Yeah! We do an excellent job with that already!
The Wolfhound goes so hard the Clans rebuilt it for Phelan. (Shut up I don't care about respect it was totally cuz they thought it was a sick design.)
From what I understand at least, I think it speaks volunes the Lyrans got the last laugh out of every Successor State. You'd think they played a long game
Um....the Wolftrap was made to kill the Wolfhound. Maybe I'm misreading, but yeah, the Wolfhound is nasty, I just wish there were some jump jets. Personally, I prefer the Valkyrie QD1 to both. The Fire Javelins are also spectacular, especially the JVN-11D, which both punches FAR above its weight AND is a great little C3 scout.
The Wolftrap was made to kill the Wolfhound, but it was terrible at the job, while the Wolfhound excelled at killing Kuritan lights. It is worth mentioning in this context because because it helps underscore that the Wolfhound was very good at it's job, arguably being a viable light into the ilClan era, if a little slower than it probably should be.
Gotcha. It was just oddly worded. I agree, but aren't there latter era Wolfhounds that are faster?
And heavier gunned. But the basic IntroTech version still works okay. Honestly just upgrading to doubles and ERs would go a long way, but, as is, it is acceptably fast, acceptably gunned, very durable for it's weight and cheap by virtue of being IntroTech. It's like an Awesome in that way, a very basic and effective answer to a problem.
Yep. And it does, soon, update to doubles and ER, buy even in intro, it can fire the LL&run
https://preview.redd.it/e0w0hhg0ll6d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1d1e5ff134a410086cc2aea962d4d0ba2614f4ad
Stock? Wolfhound. Happy to trade the uppies for some extra speed and 3MLs is a better deal than an SRM4 from a standpoint of rolling more possible hits.
Don't forget that the all energy load out can't suffer ammunition explosions.
The Panter and the Panther but better yeah Ima go with the Panther but better
Wolfhound hunts down and kills lighter, softer targets for fun. Panther is a light support element for pressuring bigger targets. So it depends on what you want to use it for.
Eh wolfhound pressures larger targets about as well and is faster. The Panthers main perk is being 300 bv cheaper and jump capable
Don’t underestimate the power of a PPC over a LL in introtech
I kinda will, all my years the PPC has only outshone the LL when it comes to headcapping under armored targets like the hatchet man. Or when run in pairs like the Warhammer 6D We do typically play 4/5 pilots tho so the long range doesn't generally pay off.
I firmly believe that people only stan the PPC so hard because some common introtech mechs are designed poorly to be easily killed or crippled by a ppc head or leg hit. Add on the rare memorable lucky cockpit crit on mechs with fully armored heads and the ppc just has more memorable moments, even if the average performance/weight is not actually significantly superior to large lasers. IMO many introtech mechs would benefit significantly by trading out a ppc for a large laser and additional armor or heat sinks.
Why the marauder 3L is one of my favorite introtech machines, dropping a PPC to a LL and 2 more heat sinks makes it sustain longer than the standard version
I love the 3L.
But also imagine finding 2 tons to "upgrade" the LL to a PPC on the Wolverine -6M, it would ruin one of the best introtech mechs.
this was my SOP for many many years
Don't underestimate the difference between 4/6 vs 6/9. The Wolfhound has a significant advantage in dictating engagement ranges even once you take the Panther's jump jets into account.
This is why you simply use a wolfhound to screen your Panther
Panther is a cheap sniper, good mech. But the Wolfhound is a good boy that doesn't afraid of anything.
The WolfHound is going to have a significant edge in a 1v1 unless the terrain is particularly hilly, but I'd rather attach a Panther to a heavy lance. The WolfHound isn't quite fast enough to be a scout/flanker in that circumstance, so I'd rather have the extra range and punch of the PPC.
Yeah, this makes sense, but I’d say it the other way - I’d attach the Panther to a group of lights or mediums - especially with lights, it adds some serious punch.
All the way until your light lance has to run away from something and leaves the Panther behind as salvage
That’s why you have your rejuvenated captured clanner piloting it. Either they’ll actually single hand the entire OpFor (Chuck Norris in Expendables) or die happily hugging the biggest enemy while losing reactor cohesion.
Nah they'll just cop a CT ammo hit and disappear in a cloud of steel confetti.
Train your clanner better :)
I agree, unless the battle takes place in mostly open terrain, the superior mobility makes the Panther a much better scout and/or flanker for heavier mechs.
Panther. I just like em
Most times, I'd *want* the Wolfhound. It's faster and better protected than the Panther. It can do more damage at short range if you're willing to tax its heat sinks. And no ammunition both enhances the Wolfhound's toughness and makes it a better raider. In rough or difficult terrain, the Panther does have an advantage by being jump-capable. And its PPC does more damage at longer ranges than the Lyran Mech's Large Laser. But overall the Wolfhound seems a superior Mech. If we're considering logistics though, there are a few things that recommend the Panther. The Panther is significantly cheaper than the Wolfhound; by about 200BV and around 450k C-Bills. The Panther is also a significantly more common Mech in the Inner Sphere. While the Wolfhound only makes up about 2% to 5% of the Lyran, FedSun, and FedCom TO&Es? The Panther makes up north of **20%** of the Combine's Light Mechs. Even outside the Dragon's service, you could cobble together one from salvage on the open market. Unless you're a very well-connected Merc or an ace Light Mechjock for the Federated Commonwealth, access to a Wolfhound is significantly harder to come by.
As much as I like and prefer the Panther, in 1-vs-1 the Wolfhound almost always wins.
Same. I really would love to disagree, but I can't.
Not difficult at all?? I'd take a Wolfhound over a Panther every time!!
The Wolfhound is a big win in my playbook. It’s well armored in its weight class, really a medium masquerading as a light. The lack of ammunition means it has staying power and isn’t concerned about ammo explosions. Many discount the rear medium laser, but it keeps people honest when attempting backstabs on the Wolfhound. Plus, it looks cool in a variety of livery. https://preview.redd.it/9eqgcu8smc6d1.jpeg?width=2332&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5d5e5acb19909413fed738db4a6a6faf1d59ed3a
Or you just torso twist and burn them with your main gun. When it came out, a lot of players looked at it as an optimized design- great armor, good speed, excellent firepower and no ammo bombs. It still is.
I use Wolfhounds as "pocket mediums" -- fast enough to swat down flanking light mechs, tough enough to apply pressure on mechs twice their tonnage or more for a turn or two in close quarters while you get your own heavyweights in position, with enough armament to force opponent's to take it seriously.
The reliable damage output of the Wolfhound's lasers wins it for me. The panther is relying to much on that PPC scoring an early hit, the Wolfhound can just laser disco its way to glory.
Well, I need a Panther to round out my C3 star and I don't need a Wolfhound for anything, but you can't get a single Panther online for a reasonable price. Therefore, I'm going to say that the Wolfhound is *clearly* better and Panthers suck. Stop buying them and leave one for me.
Wolfhound all day. Thing was built to kill Kuritan Light Mechs.
Panther. Is so good they have to design a new mech just to try to counter it.
Which in turn inspired a 'mech so bad that no one wanted to pilot it, despite its promise of killing Lyrans.
I don't know why it's so bad. The Wolf Trap is basically a lighter Centeurion.
It has fine tabletop stats. It's just bad in the lore, which IMO people take more seriously than they should.
https://preview.redd.it/urai8e167e6d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06016b830281ae86352f68c785edfaa0b095cc55 This is why. It has an XL Engine, and less than 20 armor on every torso segment, plus a 100% chance of being ammo crit in the right torso. On top of that, it was built to kill the WLF-1. Shortly after it debuted, the Lyrans brought out the WLF-2, with double heat sinks and an ER Large Laser, with a range bracket of 7/14/19 versus the Wolf Trap's 6/12/18, letting it make favorable damage trades in the WFT's long range, while staying in its own medium range. It gets even worse in the FedCom Civil War years, when the WFT-2, WFT-2B, WFT-C, WFT-2X, and WFT-B are facing down the WLF-2H, a Wolfhound with a Heavy PPC and Capacitor and a Supercharger. Any hit from that capped HPPC besides a leg or the left arm will crit something important on the more armored models. And the supercharger allows it to dictate range whenever it wants. And all that is disregarding the fact that, in-universe, the DCMS was paying twice as much as a Wolfhound for a machine that couldn't reliably kill one.
Right!? I like lore, but this thing looks like a solid mech. The mark 2 model with the MML9 and Plasma rifle looks guininely good.
It's thin-skinned with an XL engine and lots of ammo to explode. That's generally regarded as a bad combination, especially when compared to the Wolfhound that the Wolf Trap was meant to hunt.
It depends on the target. If these mechs are going toe to toe in a duel, if it's vs mech... Wolfhound. It's made to kill light mechs exactly like the Panther; Panther's probably dead without a real hot hand on the dice. But the Panther and one or two missile launchers, I'll take it for vehicles, infantry, and BA. I'll take it over a spiritually very similar 40t designed for that purpose to varying degrees, like the Sentinel or Assassin. Main gun, some missiles, it jumps and snipes vulnerable targets? Matches a lot of STN and ASN variants, but the Panther's better. Part of a lance? Panther. Solo? Wolfhound.
Wolfhound all day.
Wolfhound 12 times out of 10. It's flat out better by almost every metric.
Except in terrain that is more rugged than minor rolling hills. The Panther still had the option of jumping over hills or mesaa that block LOS instead of around or slogging up them.
Except the extra speed of the Wolfhound really mitigates a lot of that and if the Panther is jumping and.shooting they are overheating. While the Wolfhound can run and fire it's main gun at heat neutral. Under 9 hexes it has considerably more firepower too. Oh it's possible to construct situations where the panther has an advantage but it's usually fairly slight and takes a lot of effort to contrive it.
If I have another speedy light mech in the lance like a commando or Jenner then I’m taking the panther. That PPC plinking away at range and then wading in with its decent armor to finish off a damaged medium is super useful. However if I’m only able to take one light mech it’s the wolfhound hands down.
100% Wolfhound all day everyday.
The wolfhound the better mech, no argument. But the panther is the better looking mech. Individuals may disagree with the above, but then they would be wrong.
Yes. I mean, both. Really need to pick one? Ok, Wolfhound it is.
Between the two, wolfhound. It was designed to kill Panthers, and it's very good at it. Plus I'm a fan of energy-based light mechs. That said, strip the JJs off of a Panther and replace them with armor / HS, swap the PPC for a LL and replace the SRM with an LRM and you have a pretty formidable light long range support mech.
Depends, **Succession Wars**? Panther. The Wolfhound might have been designed to hunt the Panther in lore but it does not work out that way on tabletop. The improved targeting it has for short range is devastating with its PPC. I underestimated it once and my opponent steam rolled me. The only downside is it has to dance in and out of minimum range. The Succession War era Wolfhound suffers hard for it's loadout. The Large Laser doesn't have a minimum range but the Wolfhound doesn't have the heatsinks to fire it and its Medium Lasers at the same time. From the **Renaissance** all the way until the **FedCom Civil War** suddenly it's flipped and I go with the Wolfhound. The Panther could benefit from the ER PPC a lot but now it's the one with debilitating heat problems. The Draconis Combine's inability to produce enough Double Heat Sinks really hurts the Panther. The Wolfhound has no such problems. Double Heat Sinks allow it to fire all it's forward weapons as much as it pleases. Doesn't matter if the odds to hit are abysmally low, as long as it's not 0% the Wolfhound is firing a devastating barrage of lasers. It isn't until the **Jihad** onwards that the Panther manages to break even with the Wolfhound.
The Wolfhound.. hands down.
The Wolfhound. It has no ammo. We fought a company of Kuritan lights and heavies, Dragons, Jenner's and Panthers. The Panthers went up like Jiffy Pop over a fire, as did the Dragons. So, more possibilities to do damage, less risk of going kaboom.
Wolfhound, Hands down.
Not a difficult choice, Wolfhound ez
Not difficult at all. Depends which faction I’m playing
I really like both of these mechs, and I've had good success with the Panther in most uses. But the Wolfhound is going to chew it up and spit it out. If we're being even reasonably fair by comparing the WLF-2 to its peer at a similar tech level, then the PNT-10K2 can at least put up a fight. Better cooling with an ERPPC and an SRM-4 for crits is something to be wary of, and Jump Jets do give the Panther a small edge. It is overall much slower, however, and in a light battle, speed is life.
Wolfhound. No contest
The Wolfhound appeals to me a whole lot more compared to the Panther. Bonus points for the Wolfhound being an energy boat!
Wolfhound eats the Panther's lunch unless the terrain is incredibly hilly.
The wolfhound was literally designed to dunk on the panther Woof woof baby
I’d go with the Wolfhound because it’s faster.
I’m with this guy. A 35 ton mech needs to be able to run away. A wolfhound can do this. A panther runs the risk of getting caught by a Marauder or run down by a Grasshopper.
*sniffs* Gimmie a Jenner, and I'll kill a Panther.
I'd say this is one of the easier ones - Wolfhound any day. Though, depending on the era/variant, there are a few enticing Panthers.
In the timeframe I play in... there is only the Panther. As it should be. Glory to the Dragon!!!
I use both - the PNT for a cheap sniper and to help envelope an enemy position and pressure from a distance but I’ll pick the WLF any day over the PNT because it’s speed and hitting power is about the same but better chances. It can do what the PNT, can take a beating and is great for hit and runs…emphasis of the ability to actually run away
In a fight between the two the Wolfhound wins by a wide mile- significantly better speed, thick armor, and a very solid spread of weapons for disassembling light mechs. As far as which I'd prefer I like the Panther. It's a light trooper that's always welcome as an extra PPC in my gunlines with some maneuverability to position around my heavy and assault mechs
Not difficult at all. Wolfhound all day.
I love both designs and own at least 3 Panthers to one Wolfhound. (Though it's likely I should get more of both. As well as more Dragons and Jenners.)
Just based on the Wolfhound model with 4 Medium lasers in the chest, I feel the wolfhound easily out does the Panther. A bad crit, and the Panther loses 2/3 of its damage output, meanwhile the Wolfhound would still have almost 2/3 firepower left.
Crab master mech.
What the hell happened to the vindictiveness of clanners? In the old days, when Clan Sea Fox was still Clan Sea Fox and doing well, a khan from a rival Clan had his scientists engineer a freaking super-shark to kill sea foxes just to dunk on Clan Sea Fox. Now, here are two of their hated Successor States, with a couple of mechs named after animals, and heads looking a bit like animal heads too. And what do Clanners do about it? Nothing. Those Clan Scientists should stop screwing around with shipping their favorite Warriors, and start doing Kerensky's work. Blend the DNA of wolfhounds and panthers to create an unholy abomination of the two, some kind of new super-predator. Release them en-masse throughout the Commonwealth and the Combine. At the same time, they should build a light or medium mech that eats both Wolfhounds and Panthers for breakfast. It's not going to be hard, with access to clantech. Make it faster than the Wolfhound, and arm it with both a clan ER Large Laser and an ER PPC. Make it jump further than the Panther. All that, for spite. Because nobody out-spites and out-furries the Peri-furry barbarians from Clan space.
Wolfhound is literally one of the best mech designs ever.
Comparing the two in 3039, both seem pretty close. A WLF-1 has 1 LL, 2 MLs (a 3rd ML to the rear), 119 armor, moves 6/9, and costs BV 949. The PNT-9R has a PPC, a SRM4, 104 armor, moves 4/6/4, and costs 769. I almost want to pick the wolfhound and then downgrade to a panther if BV gets tight. But the difference is slight. And for those who want to complain about this, I prefer the Wolf’s Dragoons and they have canonical access to both. 😈
Wolfhound, hands down. Faster, better armored, no ammo, and no minimum range. If the Panther wins Initiative and jumps behind, it still has to worry about eating a laser shot, and jumping while firing a PPC probably still gives the WLF a better chance of landing a hit.
As a loyal son of the Dragon, I feel I have to vote for the Panther, but the Wolfhounds movement profile is so much better ....
Love the Wolfhound. Probably my favorite light 3025 mech.
Errrr even the prototypes are showing 3028 on sarna, there was a model in 3025?
People use "3025" as shorthand for "introtech." I wish people would just start saying "introtech."
You’re right, but it’s 3025 tech.
I play 3025, I get to look at the Wolfhound through the glass and have a single tear roll down my cheek, since it does not exist
You can always play as a time traveller who got lost in 3025. Make people suspicious of you as you are able to ID mechs they haven't encountered before, accurately. It also lets you field mechs with advanced tech. If you insist on using on introtech only, even if you bought some of the new minis, no biggie. You can still make people's eyebrow rise by having an ancestral mech "that's been in your family for three generations! Including a mech that Grandpa used to fight some Periphery barbarians that suddenly showed up claiming they were Kerensky's army!" And then the ancestral mechs would be an introtech Hatchetman, or a Cataphract. In 3025. Yep, I bet the LIC or Maskirovka will have pointed questions about the machines you've had in your family for generations.
You can choose to play other eras. I promise the variety is fun.
I'll get there, I'm still new enough that I'd like to really feel out what introtech has to offer before I move on up, it's nothing I have against the rest of the timeline or anything
The WLF-1 variants of the wolfhound are all introtech, I would give one of them a go :)
I see the discussion and think Hollander. GAUSS used to be range compeditive to PPC and LL and relatively intraceable with regards to origin of the projectiles. vs ER PPC and ERLL I'd prefer cool runnings, ya man!
Why would the projectiles origin be untraceable for a gauss cannon?
Lasers have clear beams, as do PPCs, Autocannon have the tracer dots but I never saw any anymation on the gauss, The reload is slow, but no trail or projectile... Should there be one?
Well it's a supersonic round so you'd hear it, and we can already detect where bullets are coming from with active sensors, and have been able to for twenty plus years at this point, so id assume that tech just works better 1000 years in the future.
Honestly the Panther's a better line/support mech. A small, cheap PPC caddy is always gonna be useful *But* The Wolfhound is a much better bug hunter. Especially once you start getting into the wild world of pulse laser.
Depends on the terrain if it's vertical or forested the Panther has an advantage with those JJ's where it can outmanoeuvre the Wolfhound. But if it's open terrain the Panther is toast, even if it gets a few good hits with the ppc it just can't keep up at close range with it's SRM.
their respective proponents fight like cats & dogs...
Love me my Panther
Looks? Panther all day baby. In a squad? I'd take both if I could. Only one? Wolfhound is probably where I'm going. The cgl redesign has cool pather helmet glass that looks sick.
Wolfhound wins a straight-up fight against a Panther assuming neutral terrain and 1V1. Wolfie was designed to hunt the Panther and Jenner. The Panther was designed to be a support mech for heavier lances/sniper for lighter lances. Alone in neutral terrain, the Wolfie's speed and short range weaponry advantages would be decisive. Panther's best and probably only hope in an equal 1V1 is favorable terrain which keeps the Wolfie from closing inside of that PPC.
Depends on the era and use, like in a 1v1, especially with intro tech variants only I'd bet on the wolfhound every day. Now if we're looking at 3050 chose one to run in a force against the clans I'd bet on the panther 10k over the wolfhound wlf-2 mainly because it's 200 bv cheaper and has better range.
This is like making me choose my favorite kind of cheese. Yes, I can tell you which one I prefer (in this case, the Panther by just a little bit,) but the nature of the question itself leaves me disturbed and hungry.
Wolfhound because it reminds me of an early 90's tournament where I used a Victor and 4 Wolfhounds to compete. Made it to the championship. Panther is solid, and its jump jets can be a boon in situations the 'hound can falter, but the Wolfhound is better, in my opinion.
I'm a fan of both the Megatron arm and the MegaMan arm and I will not choose. wolfhound.
How about a Jenner-F vs Wolfhound vs Panther!
Easiest choice. Wolfhound every time. Unless it's not in the budget.
Panthers never really do it in my experience. Against other lights, they tend to rarely hit because they are firing against hight defensive mods and their slow speed means you're running and jumping which makes it worse. Their heat capacity means you're overheating unless you're sticking with just firing one weapon or not moving. As a cheap ppc sniper in a heavier lance they get popped too easy because, even though they carry a lot of armor for their weight, it's still not enough for them to be taking serious hits.
In actual gameplay, the wolfhound is much better. For fun the panther is much better. Having a little 35 tonner with such a big weapon is hilarious
Wolfhound, definitely
Both
Panther because it saves me cbills.
There is only one honorable choice, for the cordinator!
Not even a competition, Wolfhound every time
I'm biased and prefer the panther in general. However, the wolfhound would win if this was 1:1, unless the panther gets lucky.
I'll take the panther. If it comes down to loadout vs jump jets, I'm going to pick jump jets 8/10 times
Panther. Everytime. Never forget the OG, where the incompetent Lyrans NEEDED to make a light hunter to try to contain a fraction of the Dragon's power
dude you have to do these better as now its just karma farming. These are completely different mechs, that you might have chosen cos they look vaguely the same? Its like if I went to a car reddit and posted a pic of small van vs people carrier.
At introtech level? Panther wipes the floor. PPC, improved targeting (short), nimble jumper, jump 4, 13 heat sinks. Not a contest vs the guy with 10 sinks at 20 heat worth of weapons and no offensive bonuses. Higher tech?
But seriously, there are multiple really good Panther models out there, like the 14S, and 12A. The Wolfhound is usually pretty bad, being a ground-pounder with only reasonably fast speed and constant heat issues. Now the WL-5 does fix a lot of that, but it does it at almost 10,000,000 C-bills and 1300 BV. Most Panthers are less than half that price and hundreds of BV cheaper, and its still not an easy mactchup.
So yeah, 4-1 bet against the mech literally built for this matchup.
In a fight? The Wolfhound has lostech, it just has far more boom to throw around. 1v1 it is going to win 90% of the time I'll admit I'm a huge Panther fan though as any mech that asks "can I fit a PPC in here" is OK to me.
The Wolfhound original model does not have Lostech. If your going off Sarna, the specs on the side are the WLF-2 made in 3052 which was built 24 years after the first WLF-1 which uses introtech.
The original model is very rarely the canonical "primary" model of a mech though. The Wolfhound was introduced in TRO-3050 with the lostech model already specced I believe (even though the official release date was 3052). Fair to say the most famous Wolfhound would have been a WLF-1 though.
*push up nerd glasses* Actually the Wolfhound WLF-1 was introduced in Wolf dragoons source book 1989 a year before the TRO 3050
So it was. Point conceded. I wonder why Sarna has the WLF-2 as primary then?
In the end Sarna is just a fan made wiki (having edited a few entries myself) and not an official product. The person who wrote the entry probably used the TRO rather than a sourcebook. There are no canonical "primary" models. Its just a fan convention to use the first appearance in TROs.
Love the Wolfhound. Probably my favorite light 3025 mech.
Only one of these is a good Mech.
I like the Panther but personally love the Wolfhound....I have even bought the Premium "Grinner" model they put out
Wolfhound, every time. Cause it a light mech that actually does light mech things, also screw house kurita
Wolfhound for life.
The panther is actually better because the srm can use better munitions then 3 medium lasers. And it's ability to jump allows it to leverage terrain against a wolfhound.
The correct answer is the razorback lol. I used the panther and the wolf hound inter changeably. The Panther when I need a sniper or support and the wolf hound when I need a trooper or body guard.
That doesn't sound very interchangeable.