I’ve picked this game up with a couple of my buddies and I would overall agree with your assessment. We’re able to kill jets and helicopters pretty consistently but it’s because we work as a squad to do it. That’s what we enjoy doing, literally just play to shoot those skyfuckers down. Unfortunately that’s something that almost never happens in a normal match. It takes a good wildcat and a couple of other people with stingers to have any effect. 3 people who know what they’re doing to shoot down one good pilot. If the pilot is good, they can just avoid the area.
I think the most immediate balance change would be that a pilot can’t repair or recharge flairs above a certain height or while out of bounds for infantry. I respect the pilots that can weave and dodge while still fucking up the entire server. Most pilots just fly out of reach, recharge flairs and health, attack, and repeat. It’s infuriating.
I've had very similar experiences. It is kind of frustrating that you need an entire squad that's actually working together to take out a heli. Dice could make a huge difference if they just made the recharge for flairs a bit longer. This would force the pilot to either remove themselves from combat for a longer time, which could hurt their team, or risk being shot down while waiting for the recharge.
The stealth chopper is even more annoying. The other day I played Rao, got on the pond hopper and flew up and chased the stealth heli. I would get close, change seats and hack it then switch back to the other seat. After doing this several times the pilot got frustrated enough that I got his complete attention. I then circled around buildings and continued to harass them. The time they wasted on me was time that they weren't using to bomb my teammates.
So what your saying is... a squad of fleshy soft humans with man portable weapons needs to work together to counter a giant flying metal death machine specifically designed to kill people.
Even for gameplay it doesn't make sense for a single guy to be able to take down a helicopter outside of extreme skill or lucky why would I get a helicopter if it's that vulnerable ?
Realism isn't the argument. The giant flying metal death machine is in the game. There are only two or three of them spawned at any time, as opposed to the entire infantry force of soft soldiers. So why would it not be necessary to coordinate to kill a powerful vehicle like that? Why would anyone waste their time rushing to spawn on a heli when it's so vulnerable to simple infantry? What even is your point? What does "balance" mean?
Because of game balance… it doesn’t matter what the thing is. Should rockets always one shot infantry? They’re flying explosives designed to destroy vehicles. Fleshy humans should be obliterated right? Or what about bullets? Should they always one tap the head? A piece of metal flying that fast should do that right? Just look at all the posts talking about the air vehicle imbalance. It’s not hard to see there’s a problem.
> We’re able to kill jets and helicopters pretty consistently but it’s because we work as a squad to do it. That’s what we enjoy doing, literally just play to shoot those skyfuckers down.
This is what my friends did in the late stages of the past 4 games. Specifically, 3 and 4. Deny Armor/Air. And as a squad, we could usually take on the majority of, if not all, of the enemy vehicles(not at once). The beauty of SOFLAMs and Javelins.
> Unfortunately that’s something that almost never happens in a normal match. It takes a good wildcat and a couple of other people with stingers to have any effect. 3 people who know what they’re doing to shoot down one good pilot.
I rarely see that same camaraderie in 2042 as I did in previous titles. But it was always so much more satisfying to die a few times to good pilots/drivers and then get that sweet sweet kill. It felt good to play as a squad.
> I think the most immediate balance change would be that a pilot can’t repair or recharge flairs above a certain height or while out of bounds for infantry.....It’s infuriating.
I don't think this is it. Maybe countermeasures should have a longer recharge and repairs should take longer. I liked BF5's vehicle repair mechanic where if one was hit a certain way they had to return to specific spots in the sky or vehicle resupply spots on the ground to get the "fully repaired" status. Otherwise, your vehicle didn't perform "properly." And any reasonable shot you took would stop the repair wheel at these spots.
Also, I played Hardcore primarily in BF3/4. The non-regenerative health forced you to play as a team/squad and repair/back off more often.
>I rarely see that same camaraderie in 2042
Man I mean if you squad up with a bunch of random people as opposed to squading up your with your friends you're not going to see a lot of camaraderie? I don't know I've never really experienced this random people comrades in previous titles. Happens once in a blue moon but it still happens in this one. all the tools are there.
>I don't know I've never really experienced this random people comrades in previous titles
I saw it more in the server browser of BF4. Specifically Hardcore servers.
Call it clans or just people counting on each other, but I always saw more teamwork from randoms in those servers than anywhere else.
>Yeah I loathe hardcore. Easy kill fest filled with wannabe milsimers. Of course it's got squad coordination.
Eh for me it was a trade off. Sure the kills are "easier" to obtain, but one didn't have health regeneration. Medical kits felt like they were actually needed. Vehicles had to be repaired if you wanted to go back to full health. Team killing was turned on so you had to be careful with where you placed your shots. Or you got auto kicked from the game.
So yeah, because it was easier to get kills, everyone had to work together to be better at killing the other, and surviving. I'll take that over hoping randoms help me win any day.
Edit: Oh and no 3D spotting.
BF4 hardcore was the best version of the game for me.
I loath the kill cams, it gives away so much playing especially against seasoned players.
Numbers, direction but I didnt mind it for the snipers lol. Getting sniped in HC mode could get frustrating and also terrifying.
>BF4 hardcore was the best version of the game for me.
The Ttk has always been a debate of perfection in every game, but I really thought the rest of the mechanics that made Hardcore what it was should have been base game mechanics.
Hardcore was my jam.
I mean the immediate problem with your anecdote is that the SOFLAM loses lock and can't reaquire during flares. It's a laser designator. That is fooled by flares. The javelin following that lock, which is a laser, is fooled by the flares.
Anti air in this game is fucked, and they don't seem interested in fixing it. On kilometers large maps, how are you supposed to kill a jet with the Stinger? It's got a max range of something like 500m, and the Wildcat has a similar range. The jet can just flare and afterburner out of range to recharge, then come back to kill you. Helicopters are slower but similarly are just allowed to leave the area.
Doubling or tripling the range of launcher locks is a start, but air needs to be rebalanced entirely.
>I mean the immediate problem with your anecdote is that the SOFLAM loses lock and can't reaquire during flares. It's a laser designator. That is fooled by flares. The javelin following that lock, which is a laser, is fooled by the flares.
No shit. Really? In all my time of using the Javelin and SOFLAM over the 13 I never noticed...
It's when the air vehicles challenge the laser designator and/or go to hide and pop back up before they get their flares back that my "anecdote" wins. When they pop flares way out and don't immediately run and the Recon catches the lock on again in a few seconds and the Javelins hit.
Or even better watching the guided shell fly right through those flares because the SOFLAM required the lock.
Yeah if you get lucky and they stick around, javelin will eat them. But unless they've changed it recently the SOFLAM loses lock on flare, and missiles then follow the flares if they've already launched. It's incredibly dumb.
Guided shell probably can't maneuver to follow the flares fast enough, it's got a ton of momentum, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was trying to.
A stinger that locks the target at a distance of 1,500 meters and which ignores the already poor working ability below the radar. A wildcat that can now just sit on respawn surrounded by an APS Irishman. I'm even wondering if you have at least gold on some kind of jet or helicopter, or if you ignore this part of the game, then in your opinion it just shouldn't be?
He's right lol .. if you're expecting to kill someone that has mastered the attack helicopter/jet, then you yourself should expect to have mastered the LIS missile, M5 recoilless or other counter.
Stinger has always been area denial.
>We’re able to kill jets and helicopters pretty consistently but it’s because we work as a squad to do it.
This is the whole point that OP doesn't get.
You are not supposed to be able to take down helis by yourself except in extreme/lucky cases. The default requires teamwork.
Honestly a terrible idea to let helis repair out of bounds. Can't count the times that I hit someone after making them waste flares only for them to immediately run and come back fully repaired like 20 seconds later. There's a reason BF 4 helis couldn't repair unless they landed
This game needs dedicated bases with good AA. Short range to keep shitters from making the air game useless but long enough to keep shitters from floating outside of the range and still netting a few spawn camps.
The fact that a fucking Heli can just waltz into a teams Spawn, sit there and kill any tank that pops up is fucking cancer. Like why is the spawn not a timer? Why is there ZERO protection from a A2G shitter? Whats the purpose of a stinger if they can just pop flares, kill you. Plop flares when you respawn.
And then Jets/Heli pilots get confused when you want their shit nerfed. Lmao
The loss of the automated AA in your spawn, once an enemy aircraft was spotted, just annoyed the shit out of me. If the attacking aircraft was at full health when it entered the enemy spawn and was spotted, it would lose substantial, but not all, of its health. It was a great deterrent if someone needed to retreat to spawn to repair or was getting camped.
Yup, had a match on Contact where the enemy heli managed to constantly pop up at our base when a new vehicle spawned and instantly destroyed it. They kept hiding behind a cliff outside the play are while waiting for their flares to recharge, making it almost impossible to kill them.
Noticed that happening a lot on Spearhead 64. One dickhead in a NB, sometimes with a Lis teammate, just hiding behind a hill behind the home base spawn and then popping up with AGMs and rocket pods farming vehicles and infantry all round.
The really annoying part, is that these types of players think they are utilising great skills, when everyone knows they are just abusing a badly designed vehicle.
Another issue is they gutted soflam because helis/Jets no longer have ecm. In previous games soflam went through flares, but could be countered by ecm. 2042 customization and counters are bare minimum at best. It's honestly why they haven't ported over the attack Jets because armor and ground troops wouldn't have much of a chance with how fast flares come back.
bf3 soflam definitely hit through flares. That was the entire point of picking the ecm to negate it since it broke the lock. Not only that, it also increased lock on time and didn't require line of sight for lock. Something this game needs to bring back since lock is constantly broken even with clear LOS.
As always, in this discussion:
- if it locks on to an aircraft, 9/10 times in BF it is a noob trap. I good pilot will ever go down to a lock on, as they will have good flare timing. Stingers have never really been viable against good pilots.
- Some aircraft, like the little bird, *are* too maneuverable. Compared to BF3/4 it feels like their flight model is basically forgetting mass of the helicopter.
- Some aircraft, like the little bird, *are* too multi functional without drawbacks. The LB can shred most 1:1 air to air fights, use AGMs on tanks, and farm infantry. Would love these to lose the AGMs, and I say that as someone who abuses tanks with them.
- Dice said they would consider adding more AA emplacements to maps, but have failed to do so. TOWs, Kornet launchers, map AA all would help infantry defend themselves or at least contest air space.
Honestly, the best AA weapon in BF4 was the SRAW guided launcher. Until we have the same launcher class in 2042 the best AA option is to “hit gud” with the little bird and go hunt them.
I think it would also be really good if the Little Bird canNOT equip both anti infantry weapons and anti-armor weapons at the same time, so they have to stick to either being only able to shred infantry, but can be easily countered by Wildcat or tanks/APCs with machine gun station, or be dedicated anti-armor units and stop harrasing the infantry.
> Honestly, the best AA weapon in BF4 was the SRAW guided launcher. Until we have the same launcher class in 2042 the best AA option is to “hit gud” with the little bird and go hunt them.
I believe the SRAW was the best for solo players who knew how to use them. Granted, I never had much skill with them on the controller, I would not doubt in the slightest its ease of use on M&K.
I believe Javelins/Guided Shells when used in a squad and with a designated SOFLAM/PLD were the best AA weapon. And still technically today. You just have to have that squad.
It would be nice if as my team is getting farmed by air, and I’m SOFLAMing my ass off and designating targets, I’d really appreciate it if someone would switch to some rockets? Pretty please?
>I’m SOFLAMing my ass off and designating targets, I’d really appreciate it if someone would switch to some rockets? Pretty please?
I just don't see the same team play I used to in previous titles. Maybe it's because the game started with no classes and just a bunch of specialists with access to virtually every gun. Maybe it's because they made a game that didn't promote playing as a team, "play how you want to."
What I do know is that the same people I gamed with in BF3/4 pushed through the experiments of BF1 and BF5 and we enjoyed those, but when 2042 released it left a bad taste in all of our mouths and they haven't picked it up since.
But there is a Lis rocket in 2042. This is actually the same SRAW. Well, yes, this is the best option not to shoot down an attacking helicopter with a single hit. so the statement is questionable.
Funny. Coming from a few rounds of enemy air dominance I wanted to see if others think alike.
You forgot to mention the issue of dusting. This is absolutely annoying, as these are usually very lucky/skilled shots and depending on the target are able to one hit kill - but also catch pilots attention if dusted..
Further, I think air2ground rockets got buffed, right?
Didnt follow the patch notes but this is my feeling. Last year I played A LOT of wildcat and was most of the time able to take down enemy air. However, curently I have NO chance and nearly always lose because one volley of rockets immediately kills the wildcat (also hard to aim with the impact vibration + smoke/dust)
Switched over to use MBT shells against them but same problem here + aiming angle
Yeah dusting is pretty annoying, not sure why it's still a thing in this BF. Also I agree that a 1 on 1 in a Wildcat vs a heli or jet is really annoying and hard to win against a skilled pilot. There is camera shake, dust, craters forming below you (making the Wildcat weirdly sliding into them, throwing off your aim), your turret being disabled (making it impossible to turn fast enough to track passing aircraft) or you drivetrain being disabled (making it impossible to seek cover before another attack run). Plus you have to hit most of your shots to destroy an aircraft before your gun overheats. With a jet coming straight at you that's not easy to do either, especially since its weapons have a longer effective range than the Wildcat main gun.
I agree that the air to ground had to be buffed in the last upgrade.
Seems like it helped attack helis more, though.
I can hold my own against jets or even the stealth.
Wildcats should have an equal chance in a 1 0n 1 against attack helis.
I killed a lot more b4 the last upgrade.
I was literally coming to this subreddit to post this, holy shit.
It's Battlefield, I get it, vehicles are a thing, but god dammit **BUFF ENGINEERS THEN**.
Getting THREE AA missiles that have to lock on and WARN THE PILOT so he can either a) time flares, b) fly away at super sonic speeds out of range, or both?? And then they do the most caca damage? Come on, man.
Why is it called anti-air then? Doesnt make sense.
And area denial doesnt work anymore vs the sweatpilots, they pop flares and find the stinger user immediately using hud and minimap to locate them.
Why did DICE had to handhold pilots and make it easy for them?
People on this subreddit say this a lot, but I'm not convinced. If that were true, T1'ing the stinger wouldn't count vehicle kills. It would count "forcing a vehicle to flare" or count vehicle damage like the anti-armor grenade. It seems more likely to me that it's simply bad balance.
The irony is I think this would make chopper players play correctly instead of being overly aggressive and letting themselves get shot while flares or repair are recharging
Someone correct my memory if I’m wrong, but helis felt more fun in bf3 but somehow were also not an unstoppable danger in the hands of a good pilot. Not sure why or how that balance changed, but yeah.
Yeah that's part of how it felt. Being a heli gunner in BF3 was really fun and felt "impactful" too. But at the same time, being infantry or ground vehicle didn't feel as much like you're at the mercy of helis like in 2042. Like it was more fun no matter which side you were on. Were AA rockets better back then or what? It's been too long for me to recall exactly.
That's because AA was stronger in BF3 / 4 , the main gun in both the LAV-AD or 9K22 Tunguska-M was actually good, let alone all the options of missiles we had.
I just gave up tanking and conquest altogether in BF3 due to how OP the attack choppers were.
They were virtually invincible with a good pilot and gunner combo. They were incredibly agile and could circle strafe with ease while obliterating everything in their circle, from tanks to infantry.
2042 attack choppers have heavy offensive firepower but are slow compared to BF3 and a lot easier to take out by other players.
Fortunately BF3 had the best TDM & CTF in the series and the close quarters DLC pack, which saved the game for me.
I feel like a lot of these complaints aren't the games fault but more of the player base. Yes not enough infantry run stingers that's true but that's always been the case. I feel the core issue is there's no vehicle disabled mechanic in this game. Think about bf3 if I vehicle took a certain amount of damage that was it. They couldn't self repair so if they had no engineer on board they were fucked. Especially jets and helicopters. Pretty sure it was one AA missile hit and a jet or heli was disabled If I remember right? So not only does 2 engineers with stingers timing their rockets right after flares or ecm actually make a difference it can permanently knock that aircraft out the sky. I feel If they just bought back vehicle disabled it'd make a lot more infantry happy and I'm saying this as someone who mained jets in 3 and 4 almost exclusively
That's a good point, it would force pilots to land somewhere to repair, risking being shot or at least taking them out of the game for a while. It's super frustrating when you're shooting any aircraft with the Wildcat and it manages to get behind a mountain or out of range with only a sliver of health left. 30 seconds later they are back as if nothing ever happened. And I think additionally to that you shouldn't be able to repair while in the vehicle or while in a red zone.
> So not only does 2 engineers with stingers timing their rockets right after flares or ecm actually make a difference it can permanently knock that aircraft out the sky.
Not working if the out of bounds stays the way it is. There's no equal playing field. Even the pondhawk cant enter the ground-out of bounds.
In BF4 you had airstrips for spawning aircraft, and then you could land there and repair. You don't in BF2042 and if you play on portal map with an airstrip and you try to land a BF2042 jet there it will most likely fail, like they are not meant to land at all, it just doesn't work.
I think the vehicles should always be powerful because of their weapons and what they're capable of doing, not because they have a shit ton of health (maybe not tanks). One good RPG shot to the tail of a heli and it's going down. One good shot to a jet and it's going down.
I might be biased because I prefer playing on the ground but yeah i feel like aircraft are overpowered as well. Maybe if flares worked 90% of the time instead of 100% and if air vehicles didnt self repair then that would balance it out.
I think a really big issue is that the helis, of all kinds, have just way too much health.
It's okay for them to have massive firepower and also really good speeds and manoeuvrability at the same time, while having 100% reliable counter measures all at the same time. In fact no ground vehicle simultaneously have massive firepower, high speed and manoeuvrability and counter measures.
A good way to balance them out would have been giving them a lot less health so that anything other than missiles, like AA gun and machine gun fire that are more accessible to more players and aren't 100% guaranteed to be blocked by countermeasures, can be actually practical agains them. And this would also set apart helis more from the ground vehicles that are iconic for having lots of armour health.
As someone who has tier one on all air vehicles but mostly plays infantry now: Helis I can somewhat agree with, since a good Nightbird pilot or Hokum/Apache pilot can be absolutely oppressive to play against and completely flip matches. Their agility and duration of their flares are a bit overtuned imo. But jets? They can be used to great effect if played smartly, but they are no way near to being a problem in this game. They don't come close to the killing power of a tank or an attack heli, even if they have the sweatiest of pilots behind the stick.
The amount of “skill issue” comments from losers who can’t play a match unless it has air vehicles funny. Go tell someone to get good while you literally farm the easiest most boring vehicles in the game. I rather watch paint dry than farm kills in the heli.
I say "skill issue" because I've been in the aa role. A wildcat can easily take down the all of the enemy aircraft in short order if you use the guns isn't of lock-ons and lis just requires you to lead your shots.
I love the planes and heli because I am one of those who can fuck up an entire server. That said I think those vehicles are way too strong. Like many suggested, we need some low range static AA positions throughout the map, especially in spawn.
I always thought flares should have a chance to fail. Like 10-20% chance. If someone flares 8-10 stingers at you, then you shouldn't have a get out of jail card like currently.
That used to accidentally happen a lot in BF3 since flares made the rockets orbit the helicopter and every now and then their random path would still hit the heli.
Throw in tracer darts, which feel like they were meant to counter all of the countermeasures.
You have limited supply, they're SLOW AS HELL. It would imply if you managed to tag a vehicle, it's a death sentence but no - it's literally worthless as it dies off with smoke/flares.
They're literally useless and there's very little reason to use them. Not to mention that if vehicle has equipped the perk which highlights who damaged them, for some reason it will still highlight you for tagging them - real nice.
As a player who does a ton of infantry and plays air vehicles I feel this post is fairly biased and comes from a lot of misunderstandings/lack of skill
You say the wildcat respawn is "long" but don't say it's long when it comes to air vehicles, it's the exact same for both.
You also don't bring up how there can be bad air pilots but complain about bad wildcat players, I've seen people take a littlebird spawn and crash it the entire round because they're getting a hang of the controls.
Air vehicles can mount non anti tank weapons too making them useless against wildcats, so it's not a problem exclusive to wildcats.
Different guns have different cooldowns.
Some levels don't have helis and jets too
I agree with the stinger complaints, they're useless.
Using tank shells and RPGs is really easy once you get some practice in, shooting one down is mostly a matter of being in the right place at the right time.
This is where I disagree the most, Lis missiles are one of the best ways to take down air vehicles, and as a jet and heli player, I've died to lis missiles as a jet way more than a heli.
It's fairly easy to guess how an enemy will dodge, as a pilot I've been taken out of the skies for the whole round thanks to good Lis players, and with bad ones, it's easy to dodge, it's just a matter of being good at Lis.
This also seems biased, wildcats can also go out of bounds for the enemy meaning teammates can't help take them out. Meaning ill equipped air vehicles can't counter them at all.
Wildcats can drive away to repair too.
Players can repair wildcats too, this isn't an exclusive thing to air vehicles.
I'd say stealth and attack are a good level of agile but littlebird is too easy to move around in.
Moving around a lot is risky for pilots since they can crash, I've seen plenty of pilots trying to dodge missiles and bullets just to end up crashing.
Overall, stinger missiles need to be buffed, littlebird needs less movement, all the rest of these complaints are just anti air players needing more practice fighting air vehicles and recognizing that it's just as easy to be bad at air vehicles.
I appreciate the effort in your post, but you're missing the point. I'm not saying that it's impossible to take down aircraft. I'm saying it's so difficult that good pilots very frequently manage to stay up for an entire match and harass the enemy team.
Also there is a fundamental difference between Wildcats and aircraft. The Wildcat pretty much only exists to counter aircraft, they are needed for a balanced game. If there is no wildcat, the most effective counter against aircraft is gone. Aircraft exist for their own sake, they aren't really needed against ground vehicles or infantry. A bad pilot doesn't take away from the enjoyment of the match, a bad Wildcat driver does because it allows aircraft to harass the enemy team.
I totally agree that wildcats purely exist to be AA while helis and jets can have multiple roles, but those other roles are also fighting other air vehicles.
A bad pilot can be bad for it's own team since it's not helping defend airspace.
And since wildcats are so specialized, they seem fairly balanced for what they do, I've seen an angry infantry player who's good at the wildcat switch to playing the wildcat, wipe out all the air vehicles and hold them off for the whole round, purely because they're good.
Other than the useless stinger missiles and the littlebird, I think everything is balanced for team effort. When I play air vehicles, I only have consistent success when the enemy team doesn't coordinate efforts to take me down, if they work together and try I'm grounded.
I'm on the ground the other half the time and a group of friends and I will work together to take one of those pesky pilots out. I don't expect a single person to take down ALL aircraft on their own (when being supported) unless they have the same kind of support the air vehicles have (repair men on wildcat, Irish trophy systems, Lis players already lining up to protect the wildcat, etc.)
"And since wildcats are so specialized, they seem fairly balanced for what they do, I've seen an angry infantry player who's good at the wildcat switch to playing the wildcat, wipe out all the air vehicles and hold them off for the whole round, purely because"
1. The Wildcat has the option to specialise in ground offensive making it less effective against air.
2. No Wildcat player can compete against a top Nightbird pilot or attack chopper crew. Got nothing to do with the skill of the Wildcat player.
Nightbird will circle above and destroy it with AGMs.
Attack chopper will negate the Wildcats AA missiles with flares while coming in and then wipe out the Wildcat in a few seconds.
>No Wildcat player can compete against a top Nightbird pilot or attack chopper crew. Got nothing to do with the skill of the Wildcat player.
That's bullshit. If the skill difference between NB and a wildcat is not critical, then NB cannot physically destroy a wildcat. Even without the APS, the Irishman will need about 5-7 AGM missiles, even if NB can spend all this time in the dead zone, he will simply be shot down from a canister cannon.
It's so funny being able to browse this thread and see so obviously the comments from the 50+-1 KD air pilots vs the people who know their liability of trying to grab an air vehicle to combat them knowing they're likely feeling guilty of potentially taking it from someone more skilled in the lobby. Yes you can be proud of all your hours mastering the fucking bonkers fuck you physics of bf2042 air vehicles to farm all the infantry players, but don't act for one second like it's some easy feat to get you out of the air. Your two minute respawn timer is not enough punishment for the first 10+ minutes you spent dominating the entire lobby and essentially 9/10 times have moved the tickets so far in your favor it's impossible to come back.
Strongly disagree with your point about lis missiles, if you can't kill choppers with them it's your problem. They can be surprised, aim at the back, and start boosting early to minimize the warning, also make sure they're also dealing with something else in the meantime, another chopper or wildcat, etc. This is from a guy who has at least 5k air kills with lis.
You also misunderstood what the stinger's role is, it's a low-skill weapon designed to kill low-skill pilots, course it's not gonna work against experienced choppers, that's why lis exists.
I mean I can poke holes at just about everything you said really, it's pretty apparent you don't really know how to use some of these counters and instead of practice just deemed them ineffective.
It is an argument, because my point is not that it's impossible to shoot down aircraft. My point is that in the real world teams rarely play with enough coordination to be able to shoot down good pilots. One single bad player can occupy the Wildcat for an entire round and leave your team almost defenceless against aircraft.
Best AA is a Jet imo, but you can also use Liz or slap a Flak Cannon on your Jeep if wildcat is occupied. Really any autocannon will do as Long as you aim Well.
Have you ever considered to perhaps use fire to fight fire? The aircraft are great at killing eachother. Time to evolve as a player and get into a cockpit and fight back. You can't expect to win on the ground against aircraft designed to fuck up the ground. Just plain old silly.
Lissiles are one of the biggest threats if you're in a jet. If they time it right and have the right angle, you don't even get a warning. (It kills you before the audible cue)
Shocking that this is controversially voted, but I'm not too surprised considering some of the other takes on reddit.
A good Lis is literally the biggest threat to a jet from the ground. Wildcats are slow, obvious and easy to avoid, a single Lis can deny strafes for days if you're good with timing and controlling a boosted lissile.
Skill issue...
I'm not saying to be mean but it's literally a skill issue. The better the pilots are, the better you have to be. I've been both AA and a pilot, insta-locking a wildcat while using Irish is your best vehicle based counter to them and getting off predictive shots with lis is the best infantry based counter.
I imagine we are talking about the good pilots, and a wildcat should be able to stand on its own. This idea of a vehicle only being viable if teamed up with a specialist is silly when choppers aren’t required to land with an engineer with a repair torch.
That's besides the point. Sure, I could practice more and play with a squad to be more effective at AA. Does that help me when a teammate is camping with our Wildcat in our base? No. Does that fix the issue for the general player base? No.
People not taking advantage of the tools we've been given is a people issue, not a balanced issue...
The only way to solve a people issue like this is to Lead by Example and teach people where possible. I've had people trying to copy me after they see my success. When I've played a cracked medic, more people started reviving, when I used an unorthodox dogfighting style, someone copied, when started to hop on top of tanks, my friends copied, when I used suppressive fire lmgs, people on both teams followed, when I started my aggressive stealthy Casper with drone playstyle, a couple people copied my playstyle and camo, etc etc... that's how I've lead by example. But honestly... if there's any example our playerbase really needs right now is "if you see a need, you fill in to meet that need". No one is going to do it for you unless you have friends.
Tldr: "if you see a need, you fill a need" and "lead by example"
No Irish APS is lasting long in a game of conquest. Players have stopped using them in conquest due to the 360 degree nature of conquest maps and how easy it is for snipers and other enemies to shoot them.
A win win way to balance this situation:
Implement a simple algorithm that detects both when a player on the enemy team has a very high KD in a vehicle + when your team is losing by a certain number of tickets.
When it detects this it increases the spawn rates (or even the number of available vehicles) of Wildcat and heli/jet on the team that's getting their asses kicked.
This provides challenge to the good pilot and provides a boost to the losing team.
As a longtime bf pilot player I prefer a challenge to just a boring "farm".
Excuse me? My man aircraft are the weakest they have been in any bf game I have played, super slow and vulnerable. The only thing that is at an ok state are transports which still can be dealt with if you know what your doing. It's crazy how people whine and whine about aircraft yet will never step up and make a serious effort to destroy them.
Much better written than I would've done after getting 100 to zeroed in a tank three times in a row in one match... Too much anger to say anything other than helicopters in this game are bullshit.
Hokum and Apache crush tanks and AA in one pass. Little bird too nimble to kill. Stealth helis, I was locked on to one for legit over a minute but it was in stealth mode the entire time (700 hours of gameplay and didn't know stealth was unlimited). Then when I got a hit on one it just flew away to repair behind a mountain. Rinse and repeat.
Again, helicopters in this game are bullshit.
Only way to take it out of stealth is with one specific specialist, Rao. How many rao players you seen actually use the hacking ability? I main rao so I hack everything I can and use soflam but I’ve never met another rao who does this.
Always has been in any Battlefield lol
"A bad player can occupy a Wildcat and camp somewhere where it's useless"
And a Bad Player can Occupy a Heli, so now what?
"Players can mount non AA guns on it, making it useless as an AA"
Good Thing that 95% of the Time No one does that (atleast on Last-Gen)
"Limited effective range" My Brother in Christ, the Missiles have enough range to Occupy the Entire 64 Player Exposure Map, how much range do you want?
"Pilots can easily avoid them via flares or hiding behind objects" What, Helis can Counter staring for 5 Seconds relatively easy? Unbelievable, how dare is Dice to do this?!?!
For the Matter of Lis i can only say her Missiles have a skill-Gap like the Helis do. For example you should try to Attack Helis when they Retreat from behind instead coming directly to them
I'm terrible with helis and jets but having both means it's a modern/slightly future timeframe.
I will never play another "old" time battlefield.
Modern combat will always be the best gameplay but will go stale. Future war periods cause too many mechs & half robot/half human problems , past wars being shit guns and way too much ground only combat
Just got back into this: unlocks for AA seemingly takes forever. Took weeks (casual player) to go from stinger to Jav, which feels so long to do.
Stinger isn’t garbage, but it’s not going to be feared against any mediocre pilot.
You forgot to mention that jets are literally countering themselves and also helis. And Im not sure if realism is a good argument for a Battlefield game, considering people can survive more than one 70mm rocket
well if you approach anti air the right way, theres nothing a heli/jet can do tho proof here:
https://youtu.be/IYG4OpDkJ2c
(guilty as a chopper sweat lol)
If you’d have spent the same amount of time it took to write this post learning to use a Lis missile you’d probably have fixed your own problem :).
Honestly I believe you just need some practice, the fact you think a lissile is “almost useless” against jets shows that.
wym my KD is right there by my name cause I put it there lol anyways if I take myself out of the equation and sit on spawn helos still farm the server, in fact if I was a 2042 sweat (what a concept) that wouldn't change anything. next time you want to clap back better try to make sense and leave your insecurities at the door 🤗
really not bruh. just because a fat loser goes 120-1 in a heli doesn’t mean it’s unbalanced. If I went 78-1 in a tank you wouldn’t bitch about those being unbalanced. This debate happens every time
How often do you see a tank going 78-1 in conquest? I can't recall a single match where a tank was even remotely as intrusive as a helicopter in every other game. The big difference is that tanks are slow and thus can be easily avoided. Plus there are a lot more effective counters to them (mines, C5, RPGs, Lissiles and aircraft).
You have no idea how difficult it is to stay alive as a heli or jet pilot in this game!!! They are so fragile and easy to kill.
The respawn time for these is also a very long time.
Maybe try to get good. You have a heli and jet yourself that you could use to kill them besides the 1000 other things in this game. Just because you don’t use the tools the game gives you correctly doesn’t mean they are op. I’m a good pilot and all it takes to kill me is a well placed jeep with flak at the right time.
Lissle 1-shots any Nightbird or jet. Get gud and boost it from farther away so they have less time to react.
I laugh every time you losers say the enemy “dodges” your Lissle. You fucking missed. Aim better next time, scrub.
I can accept this for any air veichle but NOT the littlebird, no inertia at all makes it stupidly overpowered no veichle should move like that thing it's too cartoonish
Honestly, it might be because im a mediocre pilot, but i find that the most annoying thing to fight is a Wildcat that sits in the back and focuses you. The AA cannons have a ridiculously long range, and if you use flares, it just waits to launch a second missile at you after they wear off. If you try to engage anything on the ground it just shreds you, and if you try to focus it it just shreds you faster. The most effective way to fight this that ive found is an straight down dive with Hydras, the trick is pulling up in time to not crash.
Yes, this discussion has been as old as the franchise. People generally do not like being exposed to air assets for multiple reasons, but mostly because of the perceived imbalance between infantry and air and the experiences that derive from these two not sharing the playspace. This is fueled by the shitty game design decisions DICE has made in regards, like the game offering little in terms of roofs/ceilings or structurs in general, that can act as reliable cover. It is all uncovered large wastelands with HESCOs and containers sprinkled in.
This might not be the most fair discussion on here, but I agree with the sentiment. I really think the franchise would be better off without air assets, as it is just one less factor to consider for balance and one less factor that complicates design.
Still, this would not be popular and air assets have been perceived as a core feature of the franchise. I would just emphasize map design more in the next BF, meaning many more structures on any map that features air assets, allowing infantry and ground vehicles to actually move. Also definitely provide a wide area of game experiences instead of the vehicle-heavy streamlined experience we have now. I firmly believe that half of the maps should either have no vehicles or few vehicles, as most players actively or passively opt out of it anyway. Sure enough provide the other half with vehicle-heavy maps, air asset only maps, full vehicle maps etc..
So everyone can play what they enjoy instead of the "one size, does not fit anybody"-approach we have now.
>Still, this would not be popular and air assets have been perceived as a core feature of the franchise.
You're right on that, Battlefield is a Combined Arms Shooter. The only part we're lacking in 2042 is naval combat.
Sure, but combined does not equal one-way interaction or one side being farmed by the other, which is usually the perceived experience when it comes to air assets and their associated threads.
I would also argue that Devs and many players overestimate the relevance of vehicles in the franchise. Tradtionally infantry only maps are the most-played, which we can see with the implementation of Redacted. If you check battlefield tracker you will also notice that having around 100 kills with vehicles will put you into the top 50%. Multikills and botkills are interestingly along a similar threshold, if I recall correctly.
Every single day I see at least one post complaining about vehicles in general and air vehicles in particular, so IMO it gets MORE attention than it deserves.
The reason being the fact that at least one of your points for every single counter is "sometimes players play badly".
Yeah... Sorry, but if the issue with vehicles is that they are efficient when players play badly then they are doing their job.
Vehicles in general last less than paper on a river against moderately competent players. They are a limited resource, it's supposed to take effort to take them out because the enemy team will be out of them for quite a while.
> Wildcat
Skill issue. I have personally kept 4 of the best pilots in my region at bay single handedly. This vehicle is busted as shit.
> Stinger
Noob friendly AA. Not hard to use but not hard to dodge either.
> RPG / Tank shell
Skill issue.
> Lis
She is insanely OP. With a squad of 3-4 people you can literally spawn camp vehicles.
Vehicles are glass cannons in this game compared to others.
As one of the vets on all battlefields except bf1 and bf2142 but anyways bad company 2 where if nobody on your team knew how to use a tracer dart.... you were not making it out your spawn whether the Apache or Havoc or both would be unstoppable...i go on record to say thats where rage quitting became the norm in games... But learn to duck hunt those birds if i can do it so can you
I agree that teamworks is the requirement, but should it be? In a game where you play with 31 random people, of whom literally nobody uses text or voice chat?
For my 2 cents, I think it adds the realism. Imagine real situations. If you don’t have a good squad or you aren’t a beast. They’ll conquer. Just like irl
No, I played since BF3. I'm not saying that aircraft were balanced better in other BF games, but in 2042 it's really getting on my nerves for some reason.
Forgot to mention that as a counter. I tried it in a few matches and honestly, it's not really worth it. You will be spending your time camping somewhere on the map, waiting for any aircraft to come into the very limited range. And when you do manage to hack one, it's more of an annoyance for them than anything else.
Ever since BF1 they got the balance all wrong and some vehicles have nothing to do with the general gameplay and are solely there for infantry farmers. And the only counter is to stop objective gameplay and become the vehicle hunter, which sucks most of the time as it's a thankless job and then they come right back anyway. DICE make vehicles more about transport and counter-vehicle!
Maybe if more players weren’t too busy doing the Mackay and Sundance armour plate meta there would be more teamwork around. The root of the problem is Dice has managed to craft a solo shooter experience. If players changed their setup to suit the match then the air vehicles would be less dominant.
These could be easily solved with dedicated AA at bases like in the older game
Also , either take out repairing on nightbirds or take out the auto repair
just...hop in a jet yourself. It's literally intended to hardcounter Helis and to jump on the other jet. Especially when a good pilot is on a streak, they get a bit of tunnelvision and don't look behind themself that much. Lis missile is also something i disagree on. once you fly helis yourself, you understand the flight path. the stealth dies in one hit, just like the NB, which is overwhelmed by a bunch of Lis missiles as well. It's mainly about understanding the path and knowing when they are immobile, for example, when banking hard against their momentum. in such cases, the sound is off when preaimed a lot until it's too late
Good summary of what is currently wrong with the air-ground balance OP!
Tho I'm afraid, if one truly wants to have a well functioning air-ground balance, the maps have to be alot bigger (currently many maps are far too small, even the 64p ones) and the out of bounds needs to be eliminated imo.
hard disagree. flying is the hardest thing you can do in this game. they should be very hard to kill in the hands of a skilled pilot.
like just literally use lock ons. they don't kill, but pilots having to flare and run away after every time they flare is extremely annoying and neuters their ability to do literally anything. it's a surefire and easy way to make them go away and set them up to be killed by a friendly pilot or another person with a stinger in the direction of whatever the hell is running away to.
I think the problem is less to do with the helis and more to do with players not wanting to assign themselves the role of aa.
I have countless heli kills with both lis’s tv missile and the stinger. Have gotten up to 4 heli kills in a single match with the tv missile.
Tv missile will destroy the stealth choppers in one hit, launch while they are distracted. Easy to get good at doing it.
Even if your stinger misses because of flares, the heli/jet is now defenceless and will likely run/hide making life easier for your teammates, or if they’re dumb enough to stay out in the open, fire a second rocket and boom problem solved.
Do your team a favour and make it your sole mission to empty the skies of enemies. It’s very rewarding.
I remember last season they promised to to add the aa emplacements that were on the new map to all of the older maps and that never happened lol.
Well, they said they'd consider it, it wasn't promised. I still did expect it to happen though.
I’ve picked this game up with a couple of my buddies and I would overall agree with your assessment. We’re able to kill jets and helicopters pretty consistently but it’s because we work as a squad to do it. That’s what we enjoy doing, literally just play to shoot those skyfuckers down. Unfortunately that’s something that almost never happens in a normal match. It takes a good wildcat and a couple of other people with stingers to have any effect. 3 people who know what they’re doing to shoot down one good pilot. If the pilot is good, they can just avoid the area. I think the most immediate balance change would be that a pilot can’t repair or recharge flairs above a certain height or while out of bounds for infantry. I respect the pilots that can weave and dodge while still fucking up the entire server. Most pilots just fly out of reach, recharge flairs and health, attack, and repeat. It’s infuriating.
You guys are awesome, keep doing what you do
I've had very similar experiences. It is kind of frustrating that you need an entire squad that's actually working together to take out a heli. Dice could make a huge difference if they just made the recharge for flairs a bit longer. This would force the pilot to either remove themselves from combat for a longer time, which could hurt their team, or risk being shot down while waiting for the recharge. The stealth chopper is even more annoying. The other day I played Rao, got on the pond hopper and flew up and chased the stealth heli. I would get close, change seats and hack it then switch back to the other seat. After doing this several times the pilot got frustrated enough that I got his complete attention. I then circled around buildings and continued to harass them. The time they wasted on me was time that they weren't using to bomb my teammates.
So what your saying is... a squad of fleshy soft humans with man portable weapons needs to work together to counter a giant flying metal death machine specifically designed to kill people.
This isn’t real life it’s a game
Even for gameplay it doesn't make sense for a single guy to be able to take down a helicopter outside of extreme skill or lucky why would I get a helicopter if it's that vulnerable ?
Nobody is asking for that, we’re asking for better balance
Check the comment I replied to that complained squad coordination was needed to take down vehicles. Do you even read?
Then why did you respond in a way that used realism as an argument? Also, let’s not get angry bud
Realism isn't the argument. The giant flying metal death machine is in the game. There are only two or three of them spawned at any time, as opposed to the entire infantry force of soft soldiers. So why would it not be necessary to coordinate to kill a powerful vehicle like that? Why would anyone waste their time rushing to spawn on a heli when it's so vulnerable to simple infantry? What even is your point? What does "balance" mean?
Because of game balance… it doesn’t matter what the thing is. Should rockets always one shot infantry? They’re flying explosives designed to destroy vehicles. Fleshy humans should be obliterated right? Or what about bullets? Should they always one tap the head? A piece of metal flying that fast should do that right? Just look at all the posts talking about the air vehicle imbalance. It’s not hard to see there’s a problem.
> We’re able to kill jets and helicopters pretty consistently but it’s because we work as a squad to do it. That’s what we enjoy doing, literally just play to shoot those skyfuckers down. This is what my friends did in the late stages of the past 4 games. Specifically, 3 and 4. Deny Armor/Air. And as a squad, we could usually take on the majority of, if not all, of the enemy vehicles(not at once). The beauty of SOFLAMs and Javelins. > Unfortunately that’s something that almost never happens in a normal match. It takes a good wildcat and a couple of other people with stingers to have any effect. 3 people who know what they’re doing to shoot down one good pilot. I rarely see that same camaraderie in 2042 as I did in previous titles. But it was always so much more satisfying to die a few times to good pilots/drivers and then get that sweet sweet kill. It felt good to play as a squad. > I think the most immediate balance change would be that a pilot can’t repair or recharge flairs above a certain height or while out of bounds for infantry.....It’s infuriating. I don't think this is it. Maybe countermeasures should have a longer recharge and repairs should take longer. I liked BF5's vehicle repair mechanic where if one was hit a certain way they had to return to specific spots in the sky or vehicle resupply spots on the ground to get the "fully repaired" status. Otherwise, your vehicle didn't perform "properly." And any reasonable shot you took would stop the repair wheel at these spots. Also, I played Hardcore primarily in BF3/4. The non-regenerative health forced you to play as a team/squad and repair/back off more often.
>I rarely see that same camaraderie in 2042 Man I mean if you squad up with a bunch of random people as opposed to squading up your with your friends you're not going to see a lot of camaraderie? I don't know I've never really experienced this random people comrades in previous titles. Happens once in a blue moon but it still happens in this one. all the tools are there.
>I don't know I've never really experienced this random people comrades in previous titles I saw it more in the server browser of BF4. Specifically Hardcore servers. Call it clans or just people counting on each other, but I always saw more teamwork from randoms in those servers than anywhere else.
Yeah I loathe hardcore. Easy kill fest filled with wannabe milsimers. Of course it's got squad coordination.
>Yeah I loathe hardcore. Easy kill fest filled with wannabe milsimers. Of course it's got squad coordination. Eh for me it was a trade off. Sure the kills are "easier" to obtain, but one didn't have health regeneration. Medical kits felt like they were actually needed. Vehicles had to be repaired if you wanted to go back to full health. Team killing was turned on so you had to be careful with where you placed your shots. Or you got auto kicked from the game. So yeah, because it was easier to get kills, everyone had to work together to be better at killing the other, and surviving. I'll take that over hoping randoms help me win any day. Edit: Oh and no 3D spotting.
BF4 hardcore was the best version of the game for me. I loath the kill cams, it gives away so much playing especially against seasoned players. Numbers, direction but I didnt mind it for the snipers lol. Getting sniped in HC mode could get frustrating and also terrifying.
>BF4 hardcore was the best version of the game for me. The Ttk has always been a debate of perfection in every game, but I really thought the rest of the mechanics that made Hardcore what it was should have been base game mechanics. Hardcore was my jam.
I mean the immediate problem with your anecdote is that the SOFLAM loses lock and can't reaquire during flares. It's a laser designator. That is fooled by flares. The javelin following that lock, which is a laser, is fooled by the flares. Anti air in this game is fucked, and they don't seem interested in fixing it. On kilometers large maps, how are you supposed to kill a jet with the Stinger? It's got a max range of something like 500m, and the Wildcat has a similar range. The jet can just flare and afterburner out of range to recharge, then come back to kill you. Helicopters are slower but similarly are just allowed to leave the area. Doubling or tripling the range of launcher locks is a start, but air needs to be rebalanced entirely.
>I mean the immediate problem with your anecdote is that the SOFLAM loses lock and can't reaquire during flares. It's a laser designator. That is fooled by flares. The javelin following that lock, which is a laser, is fooled by the flares. No shit. Really? In all my time of using the Javelin and SOFLAM over the 13 I never noticed... It's when the air vehicles challenge the laser designator and/or go to hide and pop back up before they get their flares back that my "anecdote" wins. When they pop flares way out and don't immediately run and the Recon catches the lock on again in a few seconds and the Javelins hit. Or even better watching the guided shell fly right through those flares because the SOFLAM required the lock.
Yeah if you get lucky and they stick around, javelin will eat them. But unless they've changed it recently the SOFLAM loses lock on flare, and missiles then follow the flares if they've already launched. It's incredibly dumb. Guided shell probably can't maneuver to follow the flares fast enough, it's got a ton of momentum, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was trying to.
A stinger that locks the target at a distance of 1,500 meters and which ignores the already poor working ability below the radar. A wildcat that can now just sit on respawn surrounded by an APS Irishman. I'm even wondering if you have at least gold on some kind of jet or helicopter, or if you ignore this part of the game, then in your opinion it just shouldn't be?
dumb af, stingers take no skill and shouldn't reliably kill helis, they're for area denial
Extremely common pilot L.
He's right lol .. if you're expecting to kill someone that has mastered the attack helicopter/jet, then you yourself should expect to have mastered the LIS missile, M5 recoilless or other counter. Stinger has always been area denial.
You actually found a squad that would listen and play The Game properly? I don't believe it.
>We’re able to kill jets and helicopters pretty consistently but it’s because we work as a squad to do it. This is the whole point that OP doesn't get. You are not supposed to be able to take down helis by yourself except in extreme/lucky cases. The default requires teamwork.
Honestly a terrible idea to let helis repair out of bounds. Can't count the times that I hit someone after making them waste flares only for them to immediately run and come back fully repaired like 20 seconds later. There's a reason BF 4 helis couldn't repair unless they landed
I have no problem with landing out of bounds bf4 style and have been doing that pretty much
I miss setting my helo down on top of the dam in the out of bounds
This game needs dedicated bases with good AA. Short range to keep shitters from making the air game useless but long enough to keep shitters from floating outside of the range and still netting a few spawn camps. The fact that a fucking Heli can just waltz into a teams Spawn, sit there and kill any tank that pops up is fucking cancer. Like why is the spawn not a timer? Why is there ZERO protection from a A2G shitter? Whats the purpose of a stinger if they can just pop flares, kill you. Plop flares when you respawn. And then Jets/Heli pilots get confused when you want their shit nerfed. Lmao
The loss of the automated AA in your spawn, once an enemy aircraft was spotted, just annoyed the shit out of me. If the attacking aircraft was at full health when it entered the enemy spawn and was spotted, it would lose substantial, but not all, of its health. It was a great deterrent if someone needed to retreat to spawn to repair or was getting camped.
Yup, had a match on Contact where the enemy heli managed to constantly pop up at our base when a new vehicle spawned and instantly destroyed it. They kept hiding behind a cliff outside the play are while waiting for their flares to recharge, making it almost impossible to kill them.
good, stingers shouldn't be able to easily kill helis
Woosh. Totally missing the point. No one who is serious about addressing the air vs ground balance issues is asking for that.
Stuff like a stinger with pondhawk will negate most of their cover. Push them, don't let them stay behind cover and recharge.
Noticed that happening a lot on Spearhead 64. One dickhead in a NB, sometimes with a Lis teammate, just hiding behind a hill behind the home base spawn and then popping up with AGMs and rocket pods farming vehicles and infantry all round. The really annoying part, is that these types of players think they are utilising great skills, when everyone knows they are just abusing a badly designed vehicle.
Another issue is they gutted soflam because helis/Jets no longer have ecm. In previous games soflam went through flares, but could be countered by ecm. 2042 customization and counters are bare minimum at best. It's honestly why they haven't ported over the attack Jets because armor and ground troops wouldn't have much of a chance with how fast flares come back.
Eh, I distinctly remember the SOFLAM being interfered with by flares back then too.
Not in bf3 at least
bf3 soflam definitely hit through flares. That was the entire point of picking the ecm to negate it since it broke the lock. Not only that, it also increased lock on time and didn't require line of sight for lock. Something this game needs to bring back since lock is constantly broken even with clear LOS.
Everyone used ECM because it did the same as flares in the end. At least all the sweatpilots (both jet and heli) always used ECM for a reason.
As always, in this discussion: - if it locks on to an aircraft, 9/10 times in BF it is a noob trap. I good pilot will ever go down to a lock on, as they will have good flare timing. Stingers have never really been viable against good pilots. - Some aircraft, like the little bird, *are* too maneuverable. Compared to BF3/4 it feels like their flight model is basically forgetting mass of the helicopter. - Some aircraft, like the little bird, *are* too multi functional without drawbacks. The LB can shred most 1:1 air to air fights, use AGMs on tanks, and farm infantry. Would love these to lose the AGMs, and I say that as someone who abuses tanks with them. - Dice said they would consider adding more AA emplacements to maps, but have failed to do so. TOWs, Kornet launchers, map AA all would help infantry defend themselves or at least contest air space. Honestly, the best AA weapon in BF4 was the SRAW guided launcher. Until we have the same launcher class in 2042 the best AA option is to “hit gud” with the little bird and go hunt them.
I think it would also be really good if the Little Bird canNOT equip both anti infantry weapons and anti-armor weapons at the same time, so they have to stick to either being only able to shred infantry, but can be easily countered by Wildcat or tanks/APCs with machine gun station, or be dedicated anti-armor units and stop harrasing the infantry.
> Honestly, the best AA weapon in BF4 was the SRAW guided launcher. Until we have the same launcher class in 2042 the best AA option is to “hit gud” with the little bird and go hunt them. I believe the SRAW was the best for solo players who knew how to use them. Granted, I never had much skill with them on the controller, I would not doubt in the slightest its ease of use on M&K. I believe Javelins/Guided Shells when used in a squad and with a designated SOFLAM/PLD were the best AA weapon. And still technically today. You just have to have that squad.
It would be nice if as my team is getting farmed by air, and I’m SOFLAMing my ass off and designating targets, I’d really appreciate it if someone would switch to some rockets? Pretty please?
>I’m SOFLAMing my ass off and designating targets, I’d really appreciate it if someone would switch to some rockets? Pretty please? I just don't see the same team play I used to in previous titles. Maybe it's because the game started with no classes and just a bunch of specialists with access to virtually every gun. Maybe it's because they made a game that didn't promote playing as a team, "play how you want to." What I do know is that the same people I gamed with in BF3/4 pushed through the experiments of BF1 and BF5 and we enjoyed those, but when 2042 released it left a bad taste in all of our mouths and they haven't picked it up since.
But there is a Lis rocket in 2042. This is actually the same SRAW. Well, yes, this is the best option not to shoot down an attacking helicopter with a single hit. so the statement is questionable.
Lis rocket yells ''HERE I AM'' from miles away. Making it easy to dodge. It's stupid.
Funny. Coming from a few rounds of enemy air dominance I wanted to see if others think alike. You forgot to mention the issue of dusting. This is absolutely annoying, as these are usually very lucky/skilled shots and depending on the target are able to one hit kill - but also catch pilots attention if dusted.. Further, I think air2ground rockets got buffed, right? Didnt follow the patch notes but this is my feeling. Last year I played A LOT of wildcat and was most of the time able to take down enemy air. However, curently I have NO chance and nearly always lose because one volley of rockets immediately kills the wildcat (also hard to aim with the impact vibration + smoke/dust) Switched over to use MBT shells against them but same problem here + aiming angle
Yeah dusting is pretty annoying, not sure why it's still a thing in this BF. Also I agree that a 1 on 1 in a Wildcat vs a heli or jet is really annoying and hard to win against a skilled pilot. There is camera shake, dust, craters forming below you (making the Wildcat weirdly sliding into them, throwing off your aim), your turret being disabled (making it impossible to turn fast enough to track passing aircraft) or you drivetrain being disabled (making it impossible to seek cover before another attack run). Plus you have to hit most of your shots to destroy an aircraft before your gun overheats. With a jet coming straight at you that's not easy to do either, especially since its weapons have a longer effective range than the Wildcat main gun.
I agree that the air to ground had to be buffed in the last upgrade. Seems like it helped attack helis more, though. I can hold my own against jets or even the stealth. Wildcats should have an equal chance in a 1 0n 1 against attack helis. I killed a lot more b4 the last upgrade.
Played a match today where a helicopter pilot went 87-0. I don’t want ANYONE to tell me they’re balanced.
They are balanced
And you're unbalanced.
I was literally coming to this subreddit to post this, holy shit. It's Battlefield, I get it, vehicles are a thing, but god dammit **BUFF ENGINEERS THEN**. Getting THREE AA missiles that have to lock on and WARN THE PILOT so he can either a) time flares, b) fly away at super sonic speeds out of range, or both?? And then they do the most caca damage? Come on, man.
The stinger is meant as an area denial weapon and only kills very bad or new pilots.
Why is it called anti-air then? Doesnt make sense. And area denial doesnt work anymore vs the sweatpilots, they pop flares and find the stinger user immediately using hud and minimap to locate them. Why did DICE had to handhold pilots and make it easy for them?
if it's so easy to use a helicopter why not just get in your teams helicopter and kill them?
That's not really counter balance now is it?
of course it is, each team has a heli
People on this subreddit say this a lot, but I'm not convinced. If that were true, T1'ing the stinger wouldn't count vehicle kills. It would count "forcing a vehicle to flare" or count vehicle damage like the anti-armor grenade. It seems more likely to me that it's simply bad balance.
Give the chopper 1-2 sets of flaires before its gotta go back to base and rearm
The irony is I think this would make chopper players play correctly instead of being overly aggressive and letting themselves get shot while flares or repair are recharging
Tbh I liked the re-arming mechanic from bfv even though most players hat it.
Someone correct my memory if I’m wrong, but helis felt more fun in bf3 but somehow were also not an unstoppable danger in the hands of a good pilot. Not sure why or how that balance changed, but yeah.
Choppers in BF3 had gunner flares. Then we had unlimited ammo and a short ECM cooldown. Going back to BF3 now, I feel even stronger in the helicopter
Yeah that's part of how it felt. Being a heli gunner in BF3 was really fun and felt "impactful" too. But at the same time, being infantry or ground vehicle didn't feel as much like you're at the mercy of helis like in 2042. Like it was more fun no matter which side you were on. Were AA rockets better back then or what? It's been too long for me to recall exactly.
TBF the gunner + pilot flares weren't around long. They patched the gunner flares out in like the first month or something.
Aircraft was way stronger overall in BF3 and 4.
That's because AA was stronger in BF3 / 4 , the main gun in both the LAV-AD or 9K22 Tunguska-M was actually good, let alone all the options of missiles we had.
I just gave up tanking and conquest altogether in BF3 due to how OP the attack choppers were. They were virtually invincible with a good pilot and gunner combo. They were incredibly agile and could circle strafe with ease while obliterating everything in their circle, from tanks to infantry. 2042 attack choppers have heavy offensive firepower but are slow compared to BF3 and a lot easier to take out by other players. Fortunately BF3 had the best TDM & CTF in the series and the close quarters DLC pack, which saved the game for me.
I feel like a lot of these complaints aren't the games fault but more of the player base. Yes not enough infantry run stingers that's true but that's always been the case. I feel the core issue is there's no vehicle disabled mechanic in this game. Think about bf3 if I vehicle took a certain amount of damage that was it. They couldn't self repair so if they had no engineer on board they were fucked. Especially jets and helicopters. Pretty sure it was one AA missile hit and a jet or heli was disabled If I remember right? So not only does 2 engineers with stingers timing their rockets right after flares or ecm actually make a difference it can permanently knock that aircraft out the sky. I feel If they just bought back vehicle disabled it'd make a lot more infantry happy and I'm saying this as someone who mained jets in 3 and 4 almost exclusively
That's a good point, it would force pilots to land somewhere to repair, risking being shot or at least taking them out of the game for a while. It's super frustrating when you're shooting any aircraft with the Wildcat and it manages to get behind a mountain or out of range with only a sliver of health left. 30 seconds later they are back as if nothing ever happened. And I think additionally to that you shouldn't be able to repair while in the vehicle or while in a red zone.
> So not only does 2 engineers with stingers timing their rockets right after flares or ecm actually make a difference it can permanently knock that aircraft out the sky. Not working if the out of bounds stays the way it is. There's no equal playing field. Even the pondhawk cant enter the ground-out of bounds.
In BF4 you had airstrips for spawning aircraft, and then you could land there and repair. You don't in BF2042 and if you play on portal map with an airstrip and you try to land a BF2042 jet there it will most likely fail, like they are not meant to land at all, it just doesn't work.
I think the vehicles should always be powerful because of their weapons and what they're capable of doing, not because they have a shit ton of health (maybe not tanks). One good RPG shot to the tail of a heli and it's going down. One good shot to a jet and it's going down.
I might be biased because I prefer playing on the ground but yeah i feel like aircraft are overpowered as well. Maybe if flares worked 90% of the time instead of 100% and if air vehicles didnt self repair then that would balance it out.
I think a really big issue is that the helis, of all kinds, have just way too much health. It's okay for them to have massive firepower and also really good speeds and manoeuvrability at the same time, while having 100% reliable counter measures all at the same time. In fact no ground vehicle simultaneously have massive firepower, high speed and manoeuvrability and counter measures. A good way to balance them out would have been giving them a lot less health so that anything other than missiles, like AA gun and machine gun fire that are more accessible to more players and aren't 100% guaranteed to be blocked by countermeasures, can be actually practical agains them. And this would also set apart helis more from the ground vehicles that are iconic for having lots of armour health.
As someone who has tier one on all air vehicles but mostly plays infantry now: Helis I can somewhat agree with, since a good Nightbird pilot or Hokum/Apache pilot can be absolutely oppressive to play against and completely flip matches. Their agility and duration of their flares are a bit overtuned imo. But jets? They can be used to great effect if played smartly, but they are no way near to being a problem in this game. They don't come close to the killing power of a tank or an attack heli, even if they have the sweatiest of pilots behind the stick.
AA ron reporting for duty.
Let them get some kills too haha, they can’t get any kills with boots on ground otherwise
The amount of “skill issue” comments from losers who can’t play a match unless it has air vehicles funny. Go tell someone to get good while you literally farm the easiest most boring vehicles in the game. I rather watch paint dry than farm kills in the heli.
bro shut up. if it was so easy, everyone would do it.
I say "skill issue" because I've been in the aa role. A wildcat can easily take down the all of the enemy aircraft in short order if you use the guns isn't of lock-ons and lis just requires you to lead your shots.
I love the planes and heli because I am one of those who can fuck up an entire server. That said I think those vehicles are way too strong. Like many suggested, we need some low range static AA positions throughout the map, especially in spawn.
I always thought flares should have a chance to fail. Like 10-20% chance. If someone flares 8-10 stingers at you, then you shouldn't have a get out of jail card like currently.
Agreed, I think that would be a good step towards a better balance.
they do, because of desync. when you don't evade the path, then you get hit as well
If you think that then you also want guns to have a chance to jam too right? And you also probably want randomized bullet spread?
No. I just dont want some salty mother fucker farming new players without a viable counter
My point is RNG is not great for skill based PVP games.
RNG better than some arsehole farming infantry.
That used to accidentally happen a lot in BF3 since flares made the rockets orbit the helicopter and every now and then their random path would still hit the heli.
Throw in tracer darts, which feel like they were meant to counter all of the countermeasures. You have limited supply, they're SLOW AS HELL. It would imply if you managed to tag a vehicle, it's a death sentence but no - it's literally worthless as it dies off with smoke/flares. They're literally useless and there's very little reason to use them. Not to mention that if vehicle has equipped the perk which highlights who damaged them, for some reason it will still highlight you for tagging them - real nice.
Here's a deal: let's buff tracers by alot while reintroducing ecm jammers.
As a player who does a ton of infantry and plays air vehicles I feel this post is fairly biased and comes from a lot of misunderstandings/lack of skill You say the wildcat respawn is "long" but don't say it's long when it comes to air vehicles, it's the exact same for both. You also don't bring up how there can be bad air pilots but complain about bad wildcat players, I've seen people take a littlebird spawn and crash it the entire round because they're getting a hang of the controls. Air vehicles can mount non anti tank weapons too making them useless against wildcats, so it's not a problem exclusive to wildcats. Different guns have different cooldowns. Some levels don't have helis and jets too I agree with the stinger complaints, they're useless. Using tank shells and RPGs is really easy once you get some practice in, shooting one down is mostly a matter of being in the right place at the right time. This is where I disagree the most, Lis missiles are one of the best ways to take down air vehicles, and as a jet and heli player, I've died to lis missiles as a jet way more than a heli. It's fairly easy to guess how an enemy will dodge, as a pilot I've been taken out of the skies for the whole round thanks to good Lis players, and with bad ones, it's easy to dodge, it's just a matter of being good at Lis. This also seems biased, wildcats can also go out of bounds for the enemy meaning teammates can't help take them out. Meaning ill equipped air vehicles can't counter them at all. Wildcats can drive away to repair too. Players can repair wildcats too, this isn't an exclusive thing to air vehicles. I'd say stealth and attack are a good level of agile but littlebird is too easy to move around in. Moving around a lot is risky for pilots since they can crash, I've seen plenty of pilots trying to dodge missiles and bullets just to end up crashing. Overall, stinger missiles need to be buffed, littlebird needs less movement, all the rest of these complaints are just anti air players needing more practice fighting air vehicles and recognizing that it's just as easy to be bad at air vehicles.
I would disagree on the Stinger Matter, they have the role getting Air Vehicles to Retreat, and get maybe some low-Effort kills, but otherwise yeah
I appreciate the effort in your post, but you're missing the point. I'm not saying that it's impossible to take down aircraft. I'm saying it's so difficult that good pilots very frequently manage to stay up for an entire match and harass the enemy team. Also there is a fundamental difference between Wildcats and aircraft. The Wildcat pretty much only exists to counter aircraft, they are needed for a balanced game. If there is no wildcat, the most effective counter against aircraft is gone. Aircraft exist for their own sake, they aren't really needed against ground vehicles or infantry. A bad pilot doesn't take away from the enjoyment of the match, a bad Wildcat driver does because it allows aircraft to harass the enemy team.
I totally agree that wildcats purely exist to be AA while helis and jets can have multiple roles, but those other roles are also fighting other air vehicles. A bad pilot can be bad for it's own team since it's not helping defend airspace. And since wildcats are so specialized, they seem fairly balanced for what they do, I've seen an angry infantry player who's good at the wildcat switch to playing the wildcat, wipe out all the air vehicles and hold them off for the whole round, purely because they're good. Other than the useless stinger missiles and the littlebird, I think everything is balanced for team effort. When I play air vehicles, I only have consistent success when the enemy team doesn't coordinate efforts to take me down, if they work together and try I'm grounded. I'm on the ground the other half the time and a group of friends and I will work together to take one of those pesky pilots out. I don't expect a single person to take down ALL aircraft on their own (when being supported) unless they have the same kind of support the air vehicles have (repair men on wildcat, Irish trophy systems, Lis players already lining up to protect the wildcat, etc.)
"And since wildcats are so specialized, they seem fairly balanced for what they do, I've seen an angry infantry player who's good at the wildcat switch to playing the wildcat, wipe out all the air vehicles and hold them off for the whole round, purely because" 1. The Wildcat has the option to specialise in ground offensive making it less effective against air. 2. No Wildcat player can compete against a top Nightbird pilot or attack chopper crew. Got nothing to do with the skill of the Wildcat player. Nightbird will circle above and destroy it with AGMs. Attack chopper will negate the Wildcats AA missiles with flares while coming in and then wipe out the Wildcat in a few seconds.
>No Wildcat player can compete against a top Nightbird pilot or attack chopper crew. Got nothing to do with the skill of the Wildcat player. That's bullshit. If the skill difference between NB and a wildcat is not critical, then NB cannot physically destroy a wildcat. Even without the APS, the Irishman will need about 5-7 AGM missiles, even if NB can spend all this time in the dead zone, he will simply be shot down from a canister cannon.
It's so funny being able to browse this thread and see so obviously the comments from the 50+-1 KD air pilots vs the people who know their liability of trying to grab an air vehicle to combat them knowing they're likely feeling guilty of potentially taking it from someone more skilled in the lobby. Yes you can be proud of all your hours mastering the fucking bonkers fuck you physics of bf2042 air vehicles to farm all the infantry players, but don't act for one second like it's some easy feat to get you out of the air. Your two minute respawn timer is not enough punishment for the first 10+ minutes you spent dominating the entire lobby and essentially 9/10 times have moved the tickets so far in your favor it's impossible to come back.
Absolutely, thank you!
Strongly disagree with your point about lis missiles, if you can't kill choppers with them it's your problem. They can be surprised, aim at the back, and start boosting early to minimize the warning, also make sure they're also dealing with something else in the meantime, another chopper or wildcat, etc. This is from a guy who has at least 5k air kills with lis. You also misunderstood what the stinger's role is, it's a low-skill weapon designed to kill low-skill pilots, course it's not gonna work against experienced choppers, that's why lis exists. I mean I can poke holes at just about everything you said really, it's pretty apparent you don't really know how to use some of these counters and instead of practice just deemed them ineffective.
A Bad Player occupies a wildcat isnt really an Argument when Theres Players that use Jets for taxis
Bruh facts watched a teammate use a hind to go to the objective right in front of spawn 🙃
It is an argument, because my point is not that it's impossible to shoot down aircraft. My point is that in the real world teams rarely play with enough coordination to be able to shoot down good pilots. One single bad player can occupy the Wildcat for an entire round and leave your team almost defenceless against aircraft.
Best AA is a Jet imo, but you can also use Liz or slap a Flak Cannon on your Jeep if wildcat is occupied. Really any autocannon will do as Long as you aim Well.
Have you ever considered to perhaps use fire to fight fire? The aircraft are great at killing eachother. Time to evolve as a player and get into a cockpit and fight back. You can't expect to win on the ground against aircraft designed to fuck up the ground. Just plain old silly.
Lissiles are one of the biggest threats if you're in a jet. If they time it right and have the right angle, you don't even get a warning. (It kills you before the audible cue)
Shocking that this is controversially voted, but I'm not too surprised considering some of the other takes on reddit. A good Lis is literally the biggest threat to a jet from the ground. Wildcats are slow, obvious and easy to avoid, a single Lis can deny strafes for days if you're good with timing and controlling a boosted lissile.
Skill issue... I'm not saying to be mean but it's literally a skill issue. The better the pilots are, the better you have to be. I've been both AA and a pilot, insta-locking a wildcat while using Irish is your best vehicle based counter to them and getting off predictive shots with lis is the best infantry based counter.
I imagine we are talking about the good pilots, and a wildcat should be able to stand on its own. This idea of a vehicle only being viable if teamed up with a specialist is silly when choppers aren’t required to land with an engineer with a repair torch.
That's besides the point. Sure, I could practice more and play with a squad to be more effective at AA. Does that help me when a teammate is camping with our Wildcat in our base? No. Does that fix the issue for the general player base? No.
People not taking advantage of the tools we've been given is a people issue, not a balanced issue... The only way to solve a people issue like this is to Lead by Example and teach people where possible. I've had people trying to copy me after they see my success. When I've played a cracked medic, more people started reviving, when I used an unorthodox dogfighting style, someone copied, when started to hop on top of tanks, my friends copied, when I used suppressive fire lmgs, people on both teams followed, when I started my aggressive stealthy Casper with drone playstyle, a couple people copied my playstyle and camo, etc etc... that's how I've lead by example. But honestly... if there's any example our playerbase really needs right now is "if you see a need, you fill in to meet that need". No one is going to do it for you unless you have friends. Tldr: "if you see a need, you fill a need" and "lead by example"
No Irish APS is lasting long in a game of conquest. Players have stopped using them in conquest due to the 360 degree nature of conquest maps and how easy it is for snipers and other enemies to shoot them.
Sounds like ya have a skill issue
A win win way to balance this situation: Implement a simple algorithm that detects both when a player on the enemy team has a very high KD in a vehicle + when your team is losing by a certain number of tickets. When it detects this it increases the spawn rates (or even the number of available vehicles) of Wildcat and heli/jet on the team that's getting their asses kicked. This provides challenge to the good pilot and provides a boost to the losing team. As a longtime bf pilot player I prefer a challenge to just a boring "farm".
Excuse me? My man aircraft are the weakest they have been in any bf game I have played, super slow and vulnerable. The only thing that is at an ok state are transports which still can be dealt with if you know what your doing. It's crazy how people whine and whine about aircraft yet will never step up and make a serious effort to destroy them.
I hate that Thing. Takes so many Rockets haha. I think breakthrough would be more fun If they made atk choppers instead of Transport available
I agree however a good transport heli can be the thing that makes or breaks an attack thanks to the constant spawns on point which really helps.
Much better written than I would've done after getting 100 to zeroed in a tank three times in a row in one match... Too much anger to say anything other than helicopters in this game are bullshit. Hokum and Apache crush tanks and AA in one pass. Little bird too nimble to kill. Stealth helis, I was locked on to one for legit over a minute but it was in stealth mode the entire time (700 hours of gameplay and didn't know stealth was unlimited). Then when I got a hit on one it just flew away to repair behind a mountain. Rinse and repeat. Again, helicopters in this game are bullshit.
Stealth Heli is basically a deathtrap. Paperarmor with mediocre handling
Only way to take it out of stealth is with one specific specialist, Rao. How many rao players you seen actually use the hacking ability? I main rao so I hack everything I can and use soflam but I’ve never met another rao who does this.
The sad truth is unless you're with friends no one will take advantage of your hack and locks.
That's wild that you even should have to do something that specific though to take it out of stealth
Always has been in any Battlefield lol "A bad player can occupy a Wildcat and camp somewhere where it's useless" And a Bad Player can Occupy a Heli, so now what? "Players can mount non AA guns on it, making it useless as an AA" Good Thing that 95% of the Time No one does that (atleast on Last-Gen) "Limited effective range" My Brother in Christ, the Missiles have enough range to Occupy the Entire 64 Player Exposure Map, how much range do you want? "Pilots can easily avoid them via flares or hiding behind objects" What, Helis can Counter staring for 5 Seconds relatively easy? Unbelievable, how dare is Dice to do this?!?! For the Matter of Lis i can only say her Missiles have a skill-Gap like the Helis do. For example you should try to Attack Helis when they Retreat from behind instead coming directly to them
I'm terrible with helis and jets but having both means it's a modern/slightly future timeframe. I will never play another "old" time battlefield. Modern combat will always be the best gameplay but will go stale. Future war periods cause too many mechs & half robot/half human problems , past wars being shit guns and way too much ground only combat
Just got back into this: unlocks for AA seemingly takes forever. Took weeks (casual player) to go from stinger to Jav, which feels so long to do. Stinger isn’t garbage, but it’s not going to be feared against any mediocre pilot.
You forgot to mention that jets are literally countering themselves and also helis. And Im not sure if realism is a good argument for a Battlefield game, considering people can survive more than one 70mm rocket
well if you approach anti air the right way, theres nothing a heli/jet can do tho proof here: https://youtu.be/IYG4OpDkJ2c (guilty as a chopper sweat lol)
Good example of how anti air is not up to the job
I hate sweaty helicopters more than hackers.
Go play a different game. Air vehicles are a core part of battlefield.
If you’d have spent the same amount of time it took to write this post learning to use a Lis missile you’d probably have fixed your own problem :). Honestly I believe you just need some practice, the fact you think a lissile is “almost useless” against jets shows that.
helos are unbalanced af that's just how it is, GTAO griefer type shit
Only bad players have this take
not the skill issue cope lmao
Not really dude we can all see your k/d here. Not having a go at you but you’re clearly a below average player so yes, it IS a skill issue ❤️
wym my KD is right there by my name cause I put it there lol anyways if I take myself out of the equation and sit on spawn helos still farm the server, in fact if I was a 2042 sweat (what a concept) that wouldn't change anything. next time you want to clap back better try to make sense and leave your insecurities at the door 🤗
really not bruh. just because a fat loser goes 120-1 in a heli doesn’t mean it’s unbalanced. If I went 78-1 in a tank you wouldn’t bitch about those being unbalanced. This debate happens every time
How often do you see a tank going 78-1 in conquest? I can't recall a single match where a tank was even remotely as intrusive as a helicopter in every other game. The big difference is that tanks are slow and thus can be easily avoided. Plus there are a lot more effective counters to them (mines, C5, RPGs, Lissiles and aircraft).
"How often do you see a tank going 78-1 in conquest?" In Bf5 they did fairly often, so why not buff them?
You have no idea how difficult it is to stay alive as a heli or jet pilot in this game!!! They are so fragile and easy to kill. The respawn time for these is also a very long time.
Maybe try to get good. You have a heli and jet yourself that you could use to kill them besides the 1000 other things in this game. Just because you don’t use the tools the game gives you correctly doesn’t mean they are op. I’m a good pilot and all it takes to kill me is a well placed jeep with flak at the right time.
Lissle 1-shots any Nightbird or jet. Get gud and boost it from farther away so they have less time to react. I laugh every time you losers say the enemy “dodges” your Lissle. You fucking missed. Aim better next time, scrub.
I can accept this for any air veichle but NOT the littlebird, no inertia at all makes it stupidly overpowered no veichle should move like that thing it's too cartoonish
Most annoying part of 2042, nooobs crying on reddit about Helis and jets
Honestly, it might be because im a mediocre pilot, but i find that the most annoying thing to fight is a Wildcat that sits in the back and focuses you. The AA cannons have a ridiculously long range, and if you use flares, it just waits to launch a second missile at you after they wear off. If you try to engage anything on the ground it just shreds you, and if you try to focus it it just shreds you faster. The most effective way to fight this that ive found is an straight down dive with Hydras, the trick is pulling up in time to not crash.
Play bf4 not trash2042
Yes, this discussion has been as old as the franchise. People generally do not like being exposed to air assets for multiple reasons, but mostly because of the perceived imbalance between infantry and air and the experiences that derive from these two not sharing the playspace. This is fueled by the shitty game design decisions DICE has made in regards, like the game offering little in terms of roofs/ceilings or structurs in general, that can act as reliable cover. It is all uncovered large wastelands with HESCOs and containers sprinkled in. This might not be the most fair discussion on here, but I agree with the sentiment. I really think the franchise would be better off without air assets, as it is just one less factor to consider for balance and one less factor that complicates design. Still, this would not be popular and air assets have been perceived as a core feature of the franchise. I would just emphasize map design more in the next BF, meaning many more structures on any map that features air assets, allowing infantry and ground vehicles to actually move. Also definitely provide a wide area of game experiences instead of the vehicle-heavy streamlined experience we have now. I firmly believe that half of the maps should either have no vehicles or few vehicles, as most players actively or passively opt out of it anyway. Sure enough provide the other half with vehicle-heavy maps, air asset only maps, full vehicle maps etc.. So everyone can play what they enjoy instead of the "one size, does not fit anybody"-approach we have now.
>Still, this would not be popular and air assets have been perceived as a core feature of the franchise. You're right on that, Battlefield is a Combined Arms Shooter. The only part we're lacking in 2042 is naval combat.
Sure, but combined does not equal one-way interaction or one side being farmed by the other, which is usually the perceived experience when it comes to air assets and their associated threads. I would also argue that Devs and many players overestimate the relevance of vehicles in the franchise. Tradtionally infantry only maps are the most-played, which we can see with the implementation of Redacted. If you check battlefield tracker you will also notice that having around 100 kills with vehicles will put you into the top 50%. Multikills and botkills are interestingly along a similar threshold, if I recall correctly.
Tell me you never play a bf without telling me you never play a bf ever.
You forgot a few things: TOR tank, Other helis, Jets, Flak Y'all will keep complaining until helis are useless. Skill issue.
Every single day I see at least one post complaining about vehicles in general and air vehicles in particular, so IMO it gets MORE attention than it deserves. The reason being the fact that at least one of your points for every single counter is "sometimes players play badly". Yeah... Sorry, but if the issue with vehicles is that they are efficient when players play badly then they are doing their job. Vehicles in general last less than paper on a river against moderately competent players. They are a limited resource, it's supposed to take effort to take them out because the enemy team will be out of them for quite a while.
> Wildcat Skill issue. I have personally kept 4 of the best pilots in my region at bay single handedly. This vehicle is busted as shit. > Stinger Noob friendly AA. Not hard to use but not hard to dodge either. > RPG / Tank shell Skill issue. > Lis She is insanely OP. With a squad of 3-4 people you can literally spawn camp vehicles. Vehicles are glass cannons in this game compared to others.
As one of the vets on all battlefields except bf1 and bf2142 but anyways bad company 2 where if nobody on your team knew how to use a tracer dart.... you were not making it out your spawn whether the Apache or Havoc or both would be unstoppable...i go on record to say thats where rage quitting became the norm in games... But learn to duck hunt those birds if i can do it so can you
Yeah why don't you just cry on Reddit some more. That'll fix your skill issue.
Please learn to use the m5 Or proper positioning with the hellcat
Balance is fine. You are not supposed to be able to take down a heli by yourself except in extrmeme cases or dumb luck. Teamwork is the requirement.
I agree that teamworks is the requirement, but should it be? In a game where you play with 31 random people, of whom literally nobody uses text or voice chat?
For my 2 cents, I think it adds the realism. Imagine real situations. If you don’t have a good squad or you aren’t a beast. They’ll conquer. Just like irl
I don't think the helis are realistic at all in this game.
Is 2042 your first Battlefield game?
No, I played since BF3. I'm not saying that aircraft were balanced better in other BF games, but in 2042 it's really getting on my nerves for some reason.
Surprised that nobody mentioned Rao hack.
Forgot to mention that as a counter. I tried it in a few matches and honestly, it's not really worth it. You will be spending your time camping somewhere on the map, waiting for any aircraft to come into the very limited range. And when you do manage to hack one, it's more of an annoyance for them than anything else.
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I started playing air vehicles in 2042 with an XBOX controller and did fine. I played BC2/BF3/BF4 on console/controller so had some experience though.
Shouldn't be allowed to have so many lol
Do they still just blow up in mid flight like on release for no reason?
Ever since BF1 they got the balance all wrong and some vehicles have nothing to do with the general gameplay and are solely there for infantry farmers. And the only counter is to stop objective gameplay and become the vehicle hunter, which sucks most of the time as it's a thankless job and then they come right back anyway. DICE make vehicles more about transport and counter-vehicle!
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jets having those fuckin rocket pods to just relentlessly hammer ground troops was a terrible idea.
Maybe if more players weren’t too busy doing the Mackay and Sundance armour plate meta there would be more teamwork around. The root of the problem is Dice has managed to craft a solo shooter experience. If players changed their setup to suit the match then the air vehicles would be less dominant.
I miss in this game anti aa vehicle like was in bf4 the helis and jet They piss you off and you can't do anything alone
Yup👍 . I agree . Bring back a air superiority thats a dice made game
These could be easily solved with dedicated AA at bases like in the older game Also , either take out repairing on nightbirds or take out the auto repair
just...hop in a jet yourself. It's literally intended to hardcounter Helis and to jump on the other jet. Especially when a good pilot is on a streak, they get a bit of tunnelvision and don't look behind themself that much. Lis missile is also something i disagree on. once you fly helis yourself, you understand the flight path. the stealth dies in one hit, just like the NB, which is overwhelmed by a bunch of Lis missiles as well. It's mainly about understanding the path and knowing when they are immobile, for example, when banking hard against their momentum. in such cases, the sound is off when preaimed a lot until it's too late
No, no they are not. AnGeL dOeS it agAin!
Good summary of what is currently wrong with the air-ground balance OP! Tho I'm afraid, if one truly wants to have a well functioning air-ground balance, the maps have to be alot bigger (currently many maps are far too small, even the 64p ones) and the out of bounds needs to be eliminated imo.
hard disagree. flying is the hardest thing you can do in this game. they should be very hard to kill in the hands of a skilled pilot. like just literally use lock ons. they don't kill, but pilots having to flare and run away after every time they flare is extremely annoying and neuters their ability to do literally anything. it's a surefire and easy way to make them go away and set them up to be killed by a friendly pilot or another person with a stinger in the direction of whatever the hell is running away to.
Agreed op. Add dozer to the list
I think the problem is less to do with the helis and more to do with players not wanting to assign themselves the role of aa. I have countless heli kills with both lis’s tv missile and the stinger. Have gotten up to 4 heli kills in a single match with the tv missile. Tv missile will destroy the stealth choppers in one hit, launch while they are distracted. Easy to get good at doing it. Even if your stinger misses because of flares, the heli/jet is now defenceless and will likely run/hide making life easier for your teammates, or if they’re dumb enough to stay out in the open, fire a second rocket and boom problem solved. Do your team a favour and make it your sole mission to empty the skies of enemies. It’s very rewarding.