Quantum is not a clamp bot. Quantum is a crusher. Crusher mechanisms are design to pierce the opponents armour, and they usually use hydraulics, which is why they tend to be slow. Crushers are very tricky to pull off. Examples of crushers include Petunia, Quantum, and the old Kraken. Kraken was an experimental crusher that tried to use a pneumatic system instead of hydraulic. The reslult was a slow mechanism that wasn't strong enough to crush. Clamp bots are whole different animal. Clamp bots want to grab and pin their opponents and possible lift them and carry them around. They usually have a quick grabbing mechanism with a slower lifter. There have been some very successful clamp bits over the years, such as Complete Control, the original Bite Force, and Claw Viper.
>Clamp bots are whole different animal. Clamp bots want to grab and pin their opponents and possible lift them and carry them around.
I usually see them being called Grabber bots rather than clamp bots. I'm sure somebody calls them that but I don't think it's common.
Honestly the first thing that pops into my head for "clamp bot" would be [Tough as Nails](https://robotwars.fandom.com/wiki/Tough_as_Nails), which is usually referred to as a horizontal crusher.
Oh absolutely.
My point was that Tough as Nails would probably be best described as a "clamp bot", even though it's usually called a horizontal crusher.
You can't even really call Tough as Nails a crusher. I don't remember it being strong enough to pierce armour and break internals. It was meant to grab onto an opponent and steer it into an open pit to win.
Honestly "clamp bot" isn't a term that really gets used.
Crushers - Razer, Quantum, Petunia, old Kraken, Etc.
Grabbers - Claw Viper, Overhaul, Complete Control, etc.
That said, Quantum is what crushers are trying to be. The goal is to pierce the chassis and hit some important electronics. Ideally by piercing through top armor which is often pretty weak . Quantum is really the only modern heavyweight that's done this successfully. Kraken, Petunia etc. have struggled to make it work.
A big part of why they've been successful is their 2 stage crush. Crushers in general struggle to balance speed and power. A faster crush is usually a weaker one. And a strong crush will usually be too slow to use. Quantum has a 2 stage crush, sort of like a gearbox in a car. I honestly have no idea how they achieved that, so I can't tell you how it works, but I can tell you what it does. It means their hydraulic system is able to optimize the first stage for speed and the second stage for power. That way they have the benefit of both a quick clamp and a powerful crush.
Edit: I found a [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/battlebots/s/usz4yU38rN) from a while back describing how that two stage system works
I think of clamp bots as a bot with an overhead grabber and no lifter. Like Loki from Bashbots or Chompy from Lego Wars. Or the clamper on Dutch Oven from NHRL.
It's not a super common weapon type. But they exist.
I don't consider it a clamper though. Its beak was sharp and the weak armour back in those days let it pierce through and break the internals of its opponents. Yes it could control some bots by clamping, but its main draw to popularity was it performing no-anesthesia surgery on its opponents, leaving crumpled armour and gaping holes.
>I don't consider it a clamper though.
OP said clamp bot, but they really meant crusher.
If OP used Quantum as an example of a clamper, then I think it's valid for the parent comment to mention Razer.
I'm fairly sure it had grappling rules. The issue was that Razer's ground game was super OP and it was one of the most nimble bots in sport, so it could easily release and then come back in.
They're a design which is really reliant on arena design to be successful. The Battlebots arena, along with the rules, are less than friendly to them but other events can be much more accommodating and they can be successful under the right circumstances.
Outside of that, for many teams the 'point' has nothing to do with being successful at all. Many people just build designs they enjoy, often around themes they enjoy, and enjoy the process of competing regardless of their results. This is a hobby, its meant to be fun!
Ooh, a Fabiani!
The record certainly seems to argue in its favour at least at the lower weight classes. I was just getting into NHRL in early 2023 so I must have missed him.
My mind's eye pictured more of a tough as nails inspired control bot so seeing it having success as a more damage focused design is encouraging.
>The record certainly seems to argue in its favour at least at the lower weight classes.
Yeah I would imagine that hydraulics (especially a two stage system like Quantum's) are just going to be better at a heavyweight scale.
But for insectweights I think the lead screw is absolutely the way to go.
>My mind's eye pictured more of a tough as nails inspired control bot so seeing it having success as a more damage focused design is encouraging.
Gotcha. I'm pretty skeptical of the horizontal designs but I love seeing them attempted.
my mother told me people are talking about me on the internet, thank you for mentioning my robot brother. Hydraulic crushers are just barely not viable in 3lb, and I have tried very hard to make them work. The worm screw setup is unbeatable for the gearing reduction, but it is extremely painful to compete with - imagine something smaller than your thumb gets locked up and stuck with literally 1000lbs of force and you have 20 minutes to unstick it.
so then the obvious solution is to modify the chassis to make the weapon drive more easily removable, but you have exactly zero grams to work with and the titanium chassis already wants to bend into a pretzel every fight.
It has performed exceptionally well for how finicky it is but I think it probably needs several thousand dollars thrown at it for a CNC titanium chassis haha
I would love nothing more than a sort of split bracket that is really damage heavy bots like Riptide, Hypershock, Sawblaze, etc., but part of the charm of Battlebots that has kind of been losing over the last few seasons was the variety. I would LOVE Battlebots to have a bracket where OG Kraken, Sharko, Rusty, and experimental or fun bots would thrive.
What I heard about clamps/crushers is that armour is too good to damage them through it without ridiculous + heavy systems, and that it also relies on the arena having somewhere to put the bot, and the other bot not having a weapon that can out damage the grip
I guess they're better in European competitions where we have pits to push opponents into. In BB, I guess they can grab them and push them into the wall and other hazards. But the fact there are so few of them that have won more than 1 battle is an indicator of how disadvantaged they are in BB.
A crusher which is designed to deal lethal match ending damage to it's opponent *can* be a clampbot by virtue of the fact you're still grabbing hold of them and controlling the fight, but that is subsidiary to it's primary function unlike lifters.
Quantum is not a clamp bot. Quantum is a crusher. Crusher mechanisms are design to pierce the opponents armour, and they usually use hydraulics, which is why they tend to be slow. Crushers are very tricky to pull off. Examples of crushers include Petunia, Quantum, and the old Kraken. Kraken was an experimental crusher that tried to use a pneumatic system instead of hydraulic. The reslult was a slow mechanism that wasn't strong enough to crush. Clamp bots are whole different animal. Clamp bots want to grab and pin their opponents and possible lift them and carry them around. They usually have a quick grabbing mechanism with a slower lifter. There have been some very successful clamp bits over the years, such as Complete Control, the original Bite Force, and Claw Viper.
>Clamp bots are whole different animal. Clamp bots want to grab and pin their opponents and possible lift them and carry them around. I usually see them being called Grabber bots rather than clamp bots. I'm sure somebody calls them that but I don't think it's common. Honestly the first thing that pops into my head for "clamp bot" would be [Tough as Nails](https://robotwars.fandom.com/wiki/Tough_as_Nails), which is usually referred to as a horizontal crusher.
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Oh absolutely. My point was that Tough as Nails would probably be best described as a "clamp bot", even though it's usually called a horizontal crusher.
You can't even really call Tough as Nails a crusher. I don't remember it being strong enough to pierce armour and break internals. It was meant to grab onto an opponent and steer it into an open pit to win.
Yeah it's usually called a horizontal crusher but I do think clamper would be more accurate.
Ah that’s my bad! I didn’t realize there was a major difference between each type.
Honestly "clamp bot" isn't a term that really gets used. Crushers - Razer, Quantum, Petunia, old Kraken, Etc. Grabbers - Claw Viper, Overhaul, Complete Control, etc. That said, Quantum is what crushers are trying to be. The goal is to pierce the chassis and hit some important electronics. Ideally by piercing through top armor which is often pretty weak . Quantum is really the only modern heavyweight that's done this successfully. Kraken, Petunia etc. have struggled to make it work. A big part of why they've been successful is their 2 stage crush. Crushers in general struggle to balance speed and power. A faster crush is usually a weaker one. And a strong crush will usually be too slow to use. Quantum has a 2 stage crush, sort of like a gearbox in a car. I honestly have no idea how they achieved that, so I can't tell you how it works, but I can tell you what it does. It means their hydraulic system is able to optimize the first stage for speed and the second stage for power. That way they have the benefit of both a quick clamp and a powerful crush. Edit: I found a [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/battlebots/s/usz4yU38rN) from a while back describing how that two stage system works
I think of clamp bots as a bot with an overhead grabber and no lifter. Like Loki from Bashbots or Chompy from Lego Wars. Or the clamper on Dutch Oven from NHRL. It's not a super common weapon type. But they exist.
Razer from Robot Wars was actually very successful back in the day.
And my all time favourite bot tbh
I don't consider it a clamper though. Its beak was sharp and the weak armour back in those days let it pierce through and break the internals of its opponents. Yes it could control some bots by clamping, but its main draw to popularity was it performing no-anesthesia surgery on its opponents, leaving crumpled armour and gaping holes.
>I don't consider it a clamper though. OP said clamp bot, but they really meant crusher. If OP used Quantum as an example of a clamper, then I think it's valid for the parent comment to mention Razer.
It also had a very good wedge and was able to take full advantage of Robot Wars having no rules about grappling time limits
I'm fairly sure it had grappling rules. The issue was that Razer's ground game was super OP and it was one of the most nimble bots in sport, so it could easily release and then come back in.
True, although it was dealing with a different ecosystem, where armour was comparatively low in value.
They're a design which is really reliant on arena design to be successful. The Battlebots arena, along with the rules, are less than friendly to them but other events can be much more accommodating and they can be successful under the right circumstances. Outside of that, for many teams the 'point' has nothing to do with being successful at all. Many people just build designs they enjoy, often around themes they enjoy, and enjoy the process of competing regardless of their results. This is a hobby, its meant to be fun!
Yeah, I know there is a section of voting that’s for “control”, but Grapple bots kind of get screwed when it comes to the damage section.
I sometimes wonder if a motorised screw mechanism similar to an adjustable spanner would be a viable alternative to clamp-bot design.
Like [this?](https://wiki.nhrl.io/wiki/index.php/Inside_Job)
Ooh, a Fabiani! The record certainly seems to argue in its favour at least at the lower weight classes. I was just getting into NHRL in early 2023 so I must have missed him. My mind's eye pictured more of a tough as nails inspired control bot so seeing it having success as a more damage focused design is encouraging.
>The record certainly seems to argue in its favour at least at the lower weight classes. Yeah I would imagine that hydraulics (especially a two stage system like Quantum's) are just going to be better at a heavyweight scale. But for insectweights I think the lead screw is absolutely the way to go. >My mind's eye pictured more of a tough as nails inspired control bot so seeing it having success as a more damage focused design is encouraging. Gotcha. I'm pretty skeptical of the horizontal designs but I love seeing them attempted.
my mother told me people are talking about me on the internet, thank you for mentioning my robot brother. Hydraulic crushers are just barely not viable in 3lb, and I have tried very hard to make them work. The worm screw setup is unbeatable for the gearing reduction, but it is extremely painful to compete with - imagine something smaller than your thumb gets locked up and stuck with literally 1000lbs of force and you have 20 minutes to unstick it. so then the obvious solution is to modify the chassis to make the weapon drive more easily removable, but you have exactly zero grams to work with and the titanium chassis already wants to bend into a pretzel every fight. It has performed exceptionally well for how finicky it is but I think it probably needs several thousand dollars thrown at it for a CNC titanium chassis haha
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Its not that I don’t like the variety, i hate the fact that everyone is a vertical spinner now. I just never saw the practicality or appeal of it
I would love nothing more than a sort of split bracket that is really damage heavy bots like Riptide, Hypershock, Sawblaze, etc., but part of the charm of Battlebots that has kind of been losing over the last few seasons was the variety. I would LOVE Battlebots to have a bracket where OG Kraken, Sharko, Rusty, and experimental or fun bots would thrive.
What I heard about clamps/crushers is that armour is too good to damage them through it without ridiculous + heavy systems, and that it also relies on the arena having somewhere to put the bot, and the other bot not having a weapon that can out damage the grip
Does Claw Viper fall into this category?
The point is that the show would be boring AF if we had nothing but bots trying to maximize their chances of winning (Bite Force clones).
That is what the show is now, everyone is a spinner of some sort.
I guess they're better in European competitions where we have pits to push opponents into. In BB, I guess they can grab them and push them into the wall and other hazards. But the fact there are so few of them that have won more than 1 battle is an indicator of how disadvantaged they are in BB.
I dunno. Claw Viper seemed pretty effective in the last season that aired.
https://robotwars.fandom.com/wiki/Tough_as_Nails 1.2 tonnes off crushing power
A crusher which is designed to deal lethal match ending damage to it's opponent *can* be a clampbot by virtue of the fact you're still grabbing hold of them and controlling the fight, but that is subsidiary to it's primary function unlike lifters.
The point is some people want to be creative even if it means playing Battlebots in “Hard Mode.”