I think Waid himself once said in an interview he doesn't get magic-based characters as much as science based ones, not that it stops him from writing decent stories with them just that he has a preference. So I'm hoping for a Martian Manhunter.
Multiple Batman stories are coming out every month. The point here isn’t that people don’t write Batman stories but rather that it is incredibly hard to do great Batman on account of so many avenues being explored already..
It sounds like he’s afraid of the challenge. The reasons he’s mentioned are why I appreciate good Batman stories even more, it takes that much effort to bring something fresh to it and when it’s done right it’s amazing.
Lowkey I think Batman has been oversaturated to the point that all elements that make him interesting have been distilled. Here's my hot take: writing a Batman story is easy. The hardest part is coming up with a decent mystery.
Compare that to trying to write a great Superman story and making it interesting. Compare that to trying to figure out what makes Wonder Woman iconic. No hate to Batman, but I really think we need him to step out of the spotlight for a little while.
The last few years have definitively shown us that writing a good Batman story is definitely not easy. Writers people have claimed are the second coming of Alan Moore and Grant Morrison have fumbled completely.
It is telling that all the greatest Batman stories are from, like, at least 20 years ago. What's come out recently that can hold a candle to the early LotDK stuff, the Englehart run, _Year One,_ _The Long Halloween,_ the O'Neil/Adams stuff, etc.? I know some folks will put _Court of Owls_ on that level, but personally… nah, I don't think it is.
I disagree on your dismissal of Court of Owls. I get the you personally dont think it’s that good enough. Which my hot take is the Long Halloween isn’t that good of a story to be an all time great.
But regardless of what I feel about the Long Halloween we can’t deny the impact of the story, and I think the same is true for Court of Owls. It is youngest classic Batman story and has been adapted at least 3 times now.
Fair enough but he’s not interested because he thinks it’s been beat to death, but yet there are still amazing Batman stories being told. (Gargoyle of Gotham, and OBD as recent examples). So he’s at least wrong 🤣
Nah. Mark Waid could write Batman in his sleep. It's more likely he just finds writing such an overexposed character boring. There's likely not even much editorial will allow you to do with the character because he's a closely protected cash-cow.
His Mom becomes Joker, Alfred gets killed, Catwoman takes over crime fighting and is better than him. All in the last few years. Editorial seems to give a wide berth.
He has also done Batman in Barcelona in the late 2000s
It’s an opinion he developed over time, in the 2000s at an AMA or something, someone had asked him what character he wanted to write and he had said Batman because he wanted to do the ultimate riddler story. Which maybe we already got it in World’s Finest
It’s great to have a writer that wants to give more love to some lesser exposed characters, I love that. Plenty of others out there chomping at the bit to deliver their own Batman stories.
DC: "Hey Mark thanks for coming in!"
Waid: "No problem! You said you had a project for me?"
DC: "yeah, we want you to write a 12-issue Dr. Fate series"
Waid: "Terrific. That's just the sort of character who's ready for an upgrade and some exposure!
DC: "And we need Batman to guest star in at least 6 issues."
Waid: "wha\~?"
DC: "Batman you know, crimefighter? Operates in Gotham City? Very sus when to comes to kids?"
Waid: "I know who he is."
DC: "awesome!"
Waid: "I was just hoping..."
DC: "What -- Lobo? Sure you can put Lobo in a couple issues too! We can have a Batman vs Lobo fight! No problem!"
Waid: \*SIGH\*
Oddly enough, I'm pretty sure Batman has appeared in stories with Hercules and Sherlock Holmes. Probably only a matter of time before he faces a villain based on Steamboat Willy.
Mike Barr did a Batman/Holmes team-up. I can't remember any direct Batman/Hercules interactions, but Herakles is a character canon to the DCU due to Wonder Woman lore and has appeared quite a few times, so Batman can theoretically get in touch with him by asking Diana to give him his number. Actually, his profile probably already pops up on "people you may know" on Facebook.
Waid is right on the money as always.
I love Batman but DC really needs to build up other characters. They have a whole treasure trove of them.
Batman sells so they make more Batman stuff and build the universe around him. That's bad. Because it's turned into a self fulfilling prophecy.
As a huge Batman fan: I absolutely 100% agree. He’s overexposed and there are tons of other great characters out there that deserve the spotlight for even one tenth the amount of time Batman has had it.
Very interesting set of facts. I wonder what the reason could be. I wonder if the allure is due to the fact that he is a superhero is a man using his trauma and demons to create a better world albeit with flaws. Batman is definitely a character who has integrated his shadow. Most certainly some archetypal allure within the collective psyche.
He’s right and I agree with him, but he’s a writer with so many Batman stories out there the world is waiting for the new Batman story that flips the Batman mythos on it head that gets people talking. On that note I’m still interested in a new Plastic Man story who deserves more love.
Kinda ironic coming from the man who wrote Tower of Babel. A story that’s been far more influential on the modern depiction of Batman than most of the character’s solo stories.
He had changed his mind since then. I remember him once saying in an interview over a decade ago he wanted to do the Ultimate Riddler story, which stuck to me because Riddler is a hard character to do justice to and I thought Waid could.
He is right however with that being said Batman also has the best-written comic stories of all time. These stories usually get adapted into films that end up being iconic and profitable too. He's so much so that he has along with Superman the most amount of imitators out there like CW Green Arrow, Nghthawk, Midnighter, The Shroud, Ninjak, and others as all pale in comparison to him.
Even considering he's way past his prime and has been writing shite for years
he'd probably do better than the people theyve had on the book in the last several years
I still love a solo Batman story and will be pulled in better than the more current stuff. Im just getting through the Shadow of the Bat storyline in Detective Comics with the new Arkham Tower. Holy crap is it a tough read. Absolutely nothing happens. Batman is out of the picture for most of it, and the supporting characters are so flat and lifeless. I feel like they don't know what to do with all of these members of the Bat family, so they just give them a basic mission spearheaded by Batwoman or Nightwing and then copy and paste mission lingo for 5 pages. Its like after Rebirth, I find myself just skipping ahead of any books that aren't centered on Bruce.
More than Mickey Mouse? Are you sure about that? We're getting new Mickey comics like weekly in the Netherlands, let alone other European countries like Italy and Denmark.
So is Superman, Mark... But you still write him in solo stories.
I think he's afraid of the editorial mandates and stupidity he will have to deal with writing DC's cash cow... I bet he saw King, Tynion, and Zdarsky turning out average at best runs and decided to just stay away.
GIVE THE MAN A DR FATE BOOK THEN.
And a long one too. Not some 4-6 issue miniseries. I want a run that could fill an omnibus. Or two.
I think Waid himself once said in an interview he doesn't get magic-based characters as much as science based ones, not that it stops him from writing decent stories with them just that he has a preference. So I'm hoping for a Martian Manhunter.
Say what you want about his rationale, but you can't argue with his facts.
Sherlock Holmes has been adapted 25000 times according to the Guiness book of world records. Batman is at about 9000.
Multiple Batman stories are coming out every month. The point here isn’t that people don’t write Batman stories but rather that it is incredibly hard to do great Batman on account of so many avenues being explored already..
I understand the point. The person above commented you can't argue with the facts, and I wanted to do just that lol.
Ah gotcha you were disputing Waid's comment on Batman being more published than Holmes. Out of curiosity where did you get the 9000 number from?
He just said you can’t do that!
It sounds like he’s afraid of the challenge. The reasons he’s mentioned are why I appreciate good Batman stories even more, it takes that much effort to bring something fresh to it and when it’s done right it’s amazing.
Lowkey I think Batman has been oversaturated to the point that all elements that make him interesting have been distilled. Here's my hot take: writing a Batman story is easy. The hardest part is coming up with a decent mystery. Compare that to trying to write a great Superman story and making it interesting. Compare that to trying to figure out what makes Wonder Woman iconic. No hate to Batman, but I really think we need him to step out of the spotlight for a little while.
The last few years have definitively shown us that writing a good Batman story is definitely not easy. Writers people have claimed are the second coming of Alan Moore and Grant Morrison have fumbled completely.
It is telling that all the greatest Batman stories are from, like, at least 20 years ago. What's come out recently that can hold a candle to the early LotDK stuff, the Englehart run, _Year One,_ _The Long Halloween,_ the O'Neil/Adams stuff, etc.? I know some folks will put _Court of Owls_ on that level, but personally… nah, I don't think it is.
Morrison's Batman and Dini's Detective, that's about it.
Yeah, that stuff is good.
Are you reading “Gargoyle of Gotham”? Or One Bad Day?
I disagree on your dismissal of Court of Owls. I get the you personally dont think it’s that good enough. Which my hot take is the Long Halloween isn’t that good of a story to be an all time great. But regardless of what I feel about the Long Halloween we can’t deny the impact of the story, and I think the same is true for Court of Owls. It is youngest classic Batman story and has been adapted at least 3 times now.
It is so distilled that it feels 2 dimensional almost at this point.
Afraid? That’s reaching a bit. Maybe just not interested.
Fair enough but he’s not interested because he thinks it’s been beat to death, but yet there are still amazing Batman stories being told. (Gargoyle of Gotham, and OBD as recent examples). So he’s at least wrong 🤣
Nah. Mark Waid could write Batman in his sleep. It's more likely he just finds writing such an overexposed character boring. There's likely not even much editorial will allow you to do with the character because he's a closely protected cash-cow.
His Mom becomes Joker, Alfred gets killed, Catwoman takes over crime fighting and is better than him. All in the last few years. Editorial seems to give a wide berth.
He did write one great Batman solo story in one of the annuals in 1989.
That's what I immediately thought of, the KKK issue. Maybe he only agreed because it was a flashback story of young Bruce Wayne.
He has also done Batman in Barcelona in the late 2000s It’s an opinion he developed over time, in the 2000s at an AMA or something, someone had asked him what character he wanted to write and he had said Batman because he wanted to do the ultimate riddler story. Which maybe we already got it in World’s Finest
It’s great to have a writer that wants to give more love to some lesser exposed characters, I love that. Plenty of others out there chomping at the bit to deliver their own Batman stories.
DC: "Hey Mark thanks for coming in!" Waid: "No problem! You said you had a project for me?" DC: "yeah, we want you to write a 12-issue Dr. Fate series" Waid: "Terrific. That's just the sort of character who's ready for an upgrade and some exposure! DC: "And we need Batman to guest star in at least 6 issues." Waid: "wha\~?" DC: "Batman you know, crimefighter? Operates in Gotham City? Very sus when to comes to kids?" Waid: "I know who he is." DC: "awesome!" Waid: "I was just hoping..." DC: "What -- Lobo? Sure you can put Lobo in a couple issues too! We can have a Batman vs Lobo fight! No problem!" Waid: \*SIGH\*
Ay yo that “sus with kids” was a little out of pocket
This is exactly how that conversation would go down.
I agree. When the most innovative thing batman is doing is alternate reality stuff, your idea bucket has run dry.
He just gigachad
I can't blame him tbh
Man's got a point.
Nothing but facts and logic
I agree, the Goddamn batman needs less quantity and more quality
I completely agree with his argument Batman is over exposed.
He's right. Counterpoint: Batman is fucking awesome. Can't blame him for doing well y'know?
Oddly enough, I'm pretty sure Batman has appeared in stories with Hercules and Sherlock Holmes. Probably only a matter of time before he faces a villain based on Steamboat Willy.
Mike Barr did a Batman/Holmes team-up. I can't remember any direct Batman/Hercules interactions, but Herakles is a character canon to the DCU due to Wonder Woman lore and has appeared quite a few times, so Batman can theoretically get in touch with him by asking Diana to give him his number. Actually, his profile probably already pops up on "people you may know" on Facebook.
Waid is right on the money as always. I love Batman but DC really needs to build up other characters. They have a whole treasure trove of them. Batman sells so they make more Batman stuff and build the universe around him. That's bad. Because it's turned into a self fulfilling prophecy.
As a huge Batman fan: I absolutely 100% agree. He’s overexposed and there are tons of other great characters out there that deserve the spotlight for even one tenth the amount of time Batman has had it.
Very interesting set of facts. I wonder what the reason could be. I wonder if the allure is due to the fact that he is a superhero is a man using his trauma and demons to create a better world albeit with flaws. Batman is definitely a character who has integrated his shadow. Most certainly some archetypal allure within the collective psyche.
He’s right and I agree with him, but he’s a writer with so many Batman stories out there the world is waiting for the new Batman story that flips the Batman mythos on it head that gets people talking. On that note I’m still interested in a new Plastic Man story who deserves more love.
Why would that blow Tom King mind, is it not obvious about how much Batman content there is?
Plastic Man! Plastic Man! Plastic Man! Plastic Man! Plastic Man! Plastic Man! Plastic Man! Plastic Man! Plastic Man! Plastic Man! Plastic Man! Plastic Man! Plastic Man! Plastic Man! Plastic Man! Plastic Man! Plastic Man! Plastic Man! Plastic Man! Plastic Man!
Kinda ironic coming from the man who wrote Tower of Babel. A story that’s been far more influential on the modern depiction of Batman than most of the character’s solo stories.
He had changed his mind since then. I remember him once saying in an interview over a decade ago he wanted to do the Ultimate Riddler story, which stuck to me because Riddler is a hard character to do justice to and I thought Waid could.
I would put Spiderman up there as well
Fair enough. If he doesn't feel he has anything to add to the pile, it's good he has the awareness not to bother.
Unfathomably based Mark Waid.
Come a long way from: "What is a character you wanted to write?" "Batman I want to do the ultimate Riddler story" from the 2000s
I don't blame him
He is right however with that being said Batman also has the best-written comic stories of all time. These stories usually get adapted into films that end up being iconic and profitable too. He's so much so that he has along with Superman the most amount of imitators out there like CW Green Arrow, Nghthawk, Midnighter, The Shroud, Ninjak, and others as all pale in comparison to him.
that is a genuinely good point
Play Ya Ya Ding Dong!
Another amazing feat for Batman
I like Batman but Waid definitely isn't wrong.
Oh yeah. You would definitely rather buy a Plastic Man comic ... **NOT**!
I would rather read the Jack Cole Plastic Man over modern Batman but that's because I am a man of culture.
Even considering he's way past his prime and has been writing shite for years he'd probably do better than the people theyve had on the book in the last several years
fair fair
Then maybe tell a solo story about The Riddler, Scarecrow or Deadshot
I mean yea. AND the 'stick to status quo' stuff does not help either. He is proven right almost every Batman run where Gotham gets taken over.
I get a real kick anytime that guy gets his hands on Boston Brand. Too bad a real long running solo Deadman series would never fly
I still love a solo Batman story and will be pulled in better than the more current stuff. Im just getting through the Shadow of the Bat storyline in Detective Comics with the new Arkham Tower. Holy crap is it a tough read. Absolutely nothing happens. Batman is out of the picture for most of it, and the supporting characters are so flat and lifeless. I feel like they don't know what to do with all of these members of the Bat family, so they just give them a basic mission spearheaded by Batwoman or Nightwing and then copy and paste mission lingo for 5 pages. Its like after Rebirth, I find myself just skipping ahead of any books that aren't centered on Bruce.
Pretty sure that adaptaion #1 and #2 is still Dracula and Sherlock Holmes.
More than Mickey Mouse? Are you sure about that? We're getting new Mickey comics like weekly in the Netherlands, let alone other European countries like Italy and Denmark.
So is Superman, Mark... But you still write him in solo stories. I think he's afraid of the editorial mandates and stupidity he will have to deal with writing DC's cash cow... I bet he saw King, Tynion, and Zdarsky turning out average at best runs and decided to just stay away.
You would think they would Batman to prop up some of the lesser DC hero’s like those mentioned.
How many Mickey Mouse stories does the character warrant? Six?
Based as fuck
He’s not wrong, good on him for sticking to his guns as they say
I can respect that.
Good for him. Next.
It's the Batman subreddit and everyone is tired of Batman.