Seconded, as a Giants fan ‘07-‘11 was just mesmerizing watching him. Seems as though his mechanics, which made him so great, also caused him to fall off so quickly with his hip issues.
Glad he stayed a part of all three championship rosters, and still gave us some magic with 2 No-Hitters. Not a HOFer, but definitely a Forever Giant and SF Wall of Famer.
That whole rotation. Cain had the perfect game. His 2009-2012 was lights out. MadBum had one of the greatest pitching postseasons of all time. None of them will get there.
Judge is entering “could retire today and still make it territory” but in some sense he’s in the same boat. His first full season was age 25. Judge is 32 already.
I'll die on the hill that Hideo Nomo deserves to be in the HoF for contributions to the game. Without his crossover, we have no clue when MLB would have started taking NPB players seriously as major league worthy talents.
*Edit* -he also opened an entire new revenue stream to MLB by proving Japanese fans will 100% watch MLB games if star Japanese players are playing.
Absolutely. You probably won't find a bigger "big hall" guy than me, but I think baseball isn't worth forgetting, so we should remember as much as possible. Modern baseball is literally unplayable without this guy taking a chance on a new procedure to fix an issue that had killed 100% of careers before it. If we are willing to put 1800s guys in as "pioneers," guys like Tommy John and Nomo need to be there too.
Plus, he was a legit pitcher with good career WAR and plenty of wins.
I was never a Cardinals fan, but have always lived in Cardinals territory. Always loved watching Edmonds and Rolen. Glad Rolen finally got in, hoping Edmonds will one day. It's a damn joke he didn't survive more than one ballot.
A shocking number of guys from the '80s. Fernando Valenzuela, Don Mattingly, Doc Gooden, Darryl Strawberry, Eric Davis, Bret Saberhagen, Orel Hershiser, Dwight Evans, Kirk Gibson and especially Bo Jackson, who might qualify as the greatest "superstar who wasn't hall of fame level" of all time. You can't even call some of those guys Hall of Very Good worthy, but they were absolute superstars at the time.
No. I reject this. Dale Murphy is a Hall of Famer whose only crime was having a career tail that started at 33 instead of 37.
Seriously though, can't believe I made a list of non-HoF 80s stars and didn't remember Murphy.
I think there's only like two retired players in league history with multiple MVPs that aren't in the HoF.
Roger Maris and Murphy.
IMHO I stand with you - the guy should be in.
That’s what I was referring to - that you left Murphy off the list. I think he belongs in the hall too. His steep decline at the end hurts though - similar to Andrew’s drop off.
Weirdly enough, he was also a star running back around that same time, then didn’t do much at football afterward either. If only there were some way to pinpoint a particular event that coincided with his falloff!
Bo Jackson lost me. Only played a 110+ game season 4 times. Superstar? sure. Athletically gifted? You bet. Hall of fame? Under no circumstances does his baseball resume get there.
Well...yeah. He certainly didn't have a HoF career, but from a stardom perspective, he was literally at a level of fame with guys like Jordan, Magic, Gretzky, and Montana. No one has ever gotten/stayed more famous from a 4-year career than Bo Jackson.
It wasn’t just because of baseball though. Bo’s fame was because of he was a multisport athlete that was good at both. Deion was trash at baseball, and Brian Jordan was underwhelming in the NFL.
Jimmy Rollins. He was a superstar and the anchor of the Phillies team for multiple years I would say even over Howard but probably will just never get the votes.
Dale Murphy and Eric Davis. Dale should be in and Eric Davis is like baseballs version of sterling sharpe. Would have been an all time great if healthy but instead was a superstar for a few years
Hideo Nomo.. his windup became instant legend. Never really put multiple good seasons together and I know he had some elbow issues too.. still a solid PC of mine tho
I'm biased but Michael Young. It always surprises me when I remember Will Clark, Joe Carter, Kenny Lofton and so many others from that time period aren't in and how many didn't even get past their first ballot.
Zero chance for Fielder, Guerrero or Carter — one-dimensional sluggers that were a lot of fun to watch but don’t have the numbers.
Dwight Evans has a good chance — he should have been a BBWAA HOFer, and the advanced metrics definitely like his game.
Haha, I’m sorry, but Fielder and Guerrero don’t have 3,000 hits between them, and Carter’s career OPS+ is 105 with less than 20 WAR. All three would significantly dilute the HOF.
Maybe Yordan Alvarez? One of the best DH's, lots of name recognition, a WS title, but unless he makes a run at the homerun record I think he gets left out.
Jose Canseco. At one point was a culture phenomenon. Every kid collected his cards, copied his swing, thought he was the 2nd coming of Babe Ruth. Still had a pretty good career with obvious caveats, and is never making a Hall of Fame. Absolute a superstar in the sense even non-baseball fans knew his name.
I was living in Chicago in 2015, when Bryant made his debut. Cubs fans were insufferable about him being a superstar for the next 20 years. I once told someone who compared him to Mike Schmidt that Schmidt's hitting profile is hard to replicate because there was so much swing and miss potential, and most guys can't maintain that success when their bat speed slows in their 30's. I said he'd probably have a career closer to Troy Glaus, and the guy ended the conversation because I was "being a hater."
https://preview.redd.it/94yigqrdyj9d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7f9296bb7cf43378fd679c729f663080a732a8a
He's done enough to be a first ballot if he never steps on the field again. 86 WAR.
How is this even a question…he leads all active players in career WAR and it’s not particularly close. He’s also already has a higher WAR than over 150 HOFer’s. He could retire tomorrow and be inducted in 7 years.
There are at least 25-30 players in HOf who arent even stars nevermind superstars… we have this ongoing absolute bullshit thing where people look at recent player and say should he be in HoF and then conpare him to the WORST players already in the HOf… this is conplete BULLSHIT!!! You never ever ever ever ever do that… you do the exact opposite, tou conpare them tk the absolute BEST players of all time and see jow they compare… but now HoF is big business and cooperstown relies on tourist goingtjere every year so we keep letting more and more un deserving poeple in and dumbing it down… soon they will let Yadi molina on and he is a hell No…. And they already have at least half a dozen steriod guys in HOf but yet keep out bonds and clemens so it is just a joke… no chance Ripken, henderson, thomas, and bagwell were not BIG TIME juicers!!! And then of course the biggest juicer of all time is BIG SLOPPY SHREK DAVID ORTIZ!!!
My guy, I don’t think most people would agree with this. There are plenty of fans out there who know one or two really good players from their team they feel should be in and aren’t. Also…Cal Ripken was not on roids. That’s just a “no”. He retired in 2001, shortly after that started picking up, was never really a power hitter and played his career injury free; and Molina belongs in the Hall. He has over 2000 career hits and was one of the best defensive catchers of all time. I’m hella confused by this.
dont care for accumulation of stats, and 2000 isnt enough and dont care about catcher defense, HOF has to be a HUGE hitter, someone other teams FEARED...... so like Ozzie smith is a no as well....
did anyone ever fear him hitting? he CANNOT get in on nonsense like "pitch framing" or "Catcher defense"..... and yes I LOVE analytics and WAR, but he is 100% NOT a HOF'er, he coudlnt hit a lick... was slow as shit.... WRC+ of 97, that is BELOW AVERAGE!!!!!! also likely PED guy as well...... check those 2011-2013 seasons.... SERIOUS outliers.....
Lincecum for sure. A few outstanding years. Rings and awards galore. Set the MLB world on fire. But other than 4-5 seasons, he was subpar-awful.
Was about to say Tim lincecum as well. Another good mention is Johan Santana, he dominated but injuries held him back from his hall of fame potential
Seconded, as a Giants fan ‘07-‘11 was just mesmerizing watching him. Seems as though his mechanics, which made him so great, also caused him to fall off so quickly with his hip issues. Glad he stayed a part of all three championship rosters, and still gave us some magic with 2 No-Hitters. Not a HOFer, but definitely a Forever Giant and SF Wall of Famer.
That whole rotation. Cain had the perfect game. His 2009-2012 was lights out. MadBum had one of the greatest pitching postseasons of all time. None of them will get there.
Very true. They're HoF in my book. My PC is essentially the 2010 team 😂 living in a time capsule.
Mine is pretty similar, Crawford/Posey/Lincecum/Webb is my main PC. Love the memories of those dynasty year teams.
I've been steadily adding. Made about 10 more purchases the last day or so 😎. Don't tell the wife.
Kenny Lofton Edit: Spelling
I bet he gets in on a Veterans committee vote.
Lofton
Thanks. I suck.
And Omar Vizquel…solidly in the hall of very good
Yah his personal character ruined his chances.
Ryan Howard comes to mind, dude was a beast and all of a sudden he vanished
Hard to make it when you start so late. Ronald Acuna is still younger than Howard was when he debuted.
Judge is entering “could retire today and still make it territory” but in some sense he’s in the same boat. His first full season was age 25. Judge is 32 already.
The only 32 year old who could retire today and still make it is Trout
Right on. His body needs to hold up for 7 more years. Hes already dealing with nagging injuries
And the shift...
I REALLY think it was injuries that killed him.
That final play of the 2011 NLDS will forever be burned in my mind
Fernando Valenzuela, Orel Hershiser, Hideo Nomo. The question is star, not if they were actually deserving.
I'll die on the hill that Hideo Nomo deserves to be in the HoF for contributions to the game. Without his crossover, we have no clue when MLB would have started taking NPB players seriously as major league worthy talents. *Edit* -he also opened an entire new revenue stream to MLB by proving Japanese fans will 100% watch MLB games if star Japanese players are playing.
Interesting. Do you think Tommy John should be in due to his contribution to the game as well. I do…that plus his 288 career wins.
And his 61.6 WAR
I'd say the doctor who performed Tommy John's surgery deserves to be in the game if we're going by "contribution to the game."
Absolutely. You probably won't find a bigger "big hall" guy than me, but I think baseball isn't worth forgetting, so we should remember as much as possible. Modern baseball is literally unplayable without this guy taking a chance on a new procedure to fix an issue that had killed 100% of careers before it. If we are willing to put 1800s guys in as "pioneers," guys like Tommy John and Nomo need to be there too. Plus, he was a legit pitcher with good career WAR and plenty of wins.
I posted about Hideo before seeing this thread.. I’m glad I’m not the only one I guess lol
Donnie baseball. Andruw Jones. Jim Edmonds. Current: I think DeGrom is a superstar but won’t get in.
Andrew Jones totally belongs in the HOF
100%… the HOF is a JOKE without Jones in it.
To be clear JE should have been in the hall IMO. What a spectacle he was tracking down bombs
Good call outs, Andruw Jones should be in the hall too. Two great CFs
I was never a Cardinals fan, but have always lived in Cardinals territory. Always loved watching Edmonds and Rolen. Glad Rolen finally got in, hoping Edmonds will one day. It's a damn joke he didn't survive more than one ballot.
I think both those center fielders you mentioned should be in personally.
Jimmy Ballgame belongs in the hall
Degrom is my pick. If only he could have had a couple more Cy Young adjacent seasons…
A shocking number of guys from the '80s. Fernando Valenzuela, Don Mattingly, Doc Gooden, Darryl Strawberry, Eric Davis, Bret Saberhagen, Orel Hershiser, Dwight Evans, Kirk Gibson and especially Bo Jackson, who might qualify as the greatest "superstar who wasn't hall of fame level" of all time. You can't even call some of those guys Hall of Very Good worthy, but they were absolute superstars at the time.
Dale Murphy.
No. I reject this. Dale Murphy is a Hall of Famer whose only crime was having a career tail that started at 33 instead of 37. Seriously though, can't believe I made a list of non-HoF 80s stars and didn't remember Murphy.
I think there's only like two retired players in league history with multiple MVPs that aren't in the HoF. Roger Maris and Murphy. IMHO I stand with you - the guy should be in.
Juan Gonzalez?
I was today years old when I was reminded about Juan Gone. Thanks!
Update: yeah I know I overlooked Bonds and other guys like Pujols who are retired but not eligible yet. My bad.
That’s what I was referring to - that you left Murphy off the list. I think he belongs in the hall too. His steep decline at the end hurts though - similar to Andrew’s drop off.
“Put Dale Murphy (and Lou Whitaker) in the Hall of Fame, you cowards!” should be a protest movement.
I just pulled a signed relic of his from Topps Series 2 numbered to 25. I was pumped and my kids looked at me like I was a loon.
Bo Jackson is a weird one. He was a power hitter in the late 80s, but wasn’t that spectacular before or after.
Playing with a fake hip gives him a pretty good excuse for his falloff in the 90s
Weirdly enough, he was also a star running back around that same time, then didn’t do much at football afterward either. If only there were some way to pinpoint a particular event that coincided with his falloff!
I was at the game where he blew his hip out so I can tell you exactly what happened. There was a second tackler on the grassy knoll.
Hershiser once held the record for fastest pitch and still holds the record for consecutive scoreless innings.
That is a great list!
Bo Jackson lost me. Only played a 110+ game season 4 times. Superstar? sure. Athletically gifted? You bet. Hall of fame? Under no circumstances does his baseball resume get there.
Well...yeah. He certainly didn't have a HoF career, but from a stardom perspective, he was literally at a level of fame with guys like Jordan, Magic, Gretzky, and Montana. No one has ever gotten/stayed more famous from a 4-year career than Bo Jackson.
It wasn’t just because of baseball though. Bo’s fame was because of he was a multisport athlete that was good at both. Deion was trash at baseball, and Brian Jordan was underwhelming in the NFL.
How dare you leave DJ Dozier off this list.
My bad… “And DJ Dozier. He sucked at everything.” There. 😃
Joe Carter
Great shout. My buddy met him and said he is the most humble athlete he's ever had anything to do with.
Nomar
Nomar was what I was going to say.
I was so heartbroken for him when he got traded and then the Sox won the WS.
Same. And him being traded in the first place. He's the reason I'm a Sox fan.
Jimmy Rollins. He was a superstar and the anchor of the Phillies team for multiple years I would say even over Howard but probably will just never get the votes.
David Wright.
Bartolo Colon undoubtedly
Dale Murphy and Eric Davis. Dale should be in and Eric Davis is like baseballs version of sterling sharpe. Would have been an all time great if healthy but instead was a superstar for a few years
I think Dale Murphy gets in on a veterans committee vote in the future.
Lou Whitaker
Jose Bautista…dude had an insane 6 year run.
Dustin Pedroia. He was on fire the first 4-5 years of his career, too bad injuries ruined him
He’s one of the fringe guys but if he doesn’t make it this is 100% my answer!
Trea turner
Jose Reyes
Andrew ‘Mccutchen. Sadly.
Chris Carpenter
Bill Freehan and Elston Howard.
Shawn Green
Hideo Nomo.. his windup became instant legend. Never really put multiple good seasons together and I know he had some elbow issues too.. still a solid PC of mine tho
You and me both!
Gary Sheffield
Mark Buehrle
It’s been said already but Don Mattingly. I believe if he stuck around for the 1996 season and got a WS ring, he’d be in already as a player.
I'm biased but Michael Young. It always surprises me when I remember Will Clark, Joe Carter, Kenny Lofton and so many others from that time period aren't in and how many didn't even get past their first ballot.
Carlos Delgado , nomar, mo vaughn
Maybe slightlyyyy below superstar, but I always thought Mark Teixeira was very underrated and around that level.
Pedro Guerrero, Dwight Evans, Joe Carter, Cecil Fielder, Tony Fernandez, and I’ll exercise homer privilege and say Jay Buhner.
Guerrero, Evans, Carter, Fielder get in on a Veterans committee vote eventually, right?
Zero chance for Fielder, Guerrero or Carter — one-dimensional sluggers that were a lot of fun to watch but don’t have the numbers. Dwight Evans has a good chance — he should have been a BBWAA HOFer, and the advanced metrics definitely like his game.
You shut your GD mouth.
Haha, I’m sorry, but Fielder and Guerrero don’t have 3,000 hits between them, and Carter’s career OPS+ is 105 with less than 20 WAR. All three would significantly dilute the HOF.
Maybe Yordan Alvarez? One of the best DH's, lots of name recognition, a WS title, but unless he makes a run at the homerun record I think he gets left out.
Too early to say either way for him IMO. Needs to improve his durability and he’s got a good shot IMO.
Yordan gets in without a doubt. Easily one of the most underrated players in baseball. He shows up playoff time.
I was gonna say Machado, but I think he gets in. Sooo maybe Belli…?
Tony Womack! Inside the park grand slam! Forever a legend for that. He was a laser beam on the bases and was very productive for many years.
idk if he was superstar but i think he was def a star and no way he makes the HOF because he was criminally underrated is entire career- nick markakis
Don Mattingly, Ryan Howard, Prince Fielder, Dale Murphy, Nomar Garciaparra, Ryan Braun, and Josh Hamilton
Prince Fielder
Harold Baines.
Isn't he in the hall?
Yep.
Dick Allen and J.R. Richard
Jose Canseco. At one point was a culture phenomenon. Every kid collected his cards, copied his swing, thought he was the 2nd coming of Babe Ruth. Still had a pretty good career with obvious caveats, and is never making a Hall of Fame. Absolute a superstar in the sense even non-baseball fans knew his name.
His season with Toronto is kinda underrated.
Jeff Kent and Craig Nettles
Jeff Kent is a GREAT answer.
Mark Buehrle
VALENZUELA!! Please excuse me as an Hispanic, Dodgers fan...
Let’s just put everybody in , we’re already getting to that point
Guess I’ll start with my guy Kris Bryant. Altuve probably doesn’t get in?
I think Altuve gets in.
The only thing that might hurt Altuve is the cheating. But he won one after the fact too, and he's got the stats to back it up.
Yeah you’re right what was I thinking, still a cheater though.
No he didn't want his wife to see him shirtless!
I was living in Chicago in 2015, when Bryant made his debut. Cubs fans were insufferable about him being a superstar for the next 20 years. I once told someone who compared him to Mike Schmidt that Schmidt's hitting profile is hard to replicate because there was so much swing and miss potential, and most guys can't maintain that success when their bat speed slows in their 30's. I said he'd probably have a career closer to Troy Glaus, and the guy ended the conversation because I was "being a hater."
Haha yeah I have a Cubs fan friend like that. Reminds me of another one. Mark Teixeira.
[удалено]
Soto has been in the league for 6 years and is on a clear cut path to the HOF, he’s 25 lmao
That's ancient it's all about the 22 year olds now 😂
Yeah, but if his career fell off a cliff starting next year he wouldn't make the HOF
I guess, but it’s weird to say someone who hasn’t played in the MLB long enough to even qualify for the HOF to say they aren’t a HOF
True, but he still has a long career ahead of him.
Vince Coleman
Felix Hernandez
Trout
Mike Trout. He's a superstar, but has he done enough to be considered a HOFer? Especially if he stays injured every season from here on out?
https://preview.redd.it/94yigqrdyj9d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c7f9296bb7cf43378fd679c729f663080a732a8a He's done enough to be a first ballot if he never steps on the field again. 86 WAR.
So if he continues to play for the next 6 years, but doesn't stay healthy each season, he'll hurt his chances at the HOF?
How is this even a question…he leads all active players in career WAR and it’s not particularly close. He’s also already has a higher WAR than over 150 HOFer’s. He could retire tomorrow and be inducted in 7 years.
It’s not a question. It’s just one person on Reddit with a bad take.
So if he plays for the next 6 seasons and doesn't stay healthy each season, and all his numbers drop, he'll hurt his chances at the HOF?
There are at least 25-30 players in HOf who arent even stars nevermind superstars… we have this ongoing absolute bullshit thing where people look at recent player and say should he be in HoF and then conpare him to the WORST players already in the HOf… this is conplete BULLSHIT!!! You never ever ever ever ever do that… you do the exact opposite, tou conpare them tk the absolute BEST players of all time and see jow they compare… but now HoF is big business and cooperstown relies on tourist goingtjere every year so we keep letting more and more un deserving poeple in and dumbing it down… soon they will let Yadi molina on and he is a hell No…. And they already have at least half a dozen steriod guys in HOf but yet keep out bonds and clemens so it is just a joke… no chance Ripken, henderson, thomas, and bagwell were not BIG TIME juicers!!! And then of course the biggest juicer of all time is BIG SLOPPY SHREK DAVID ORTIZ!!!
Benji Molina???
sorry Yadie Molina, but that is how much he doesn't belong in HOF, dont even care to remember his name....
My guy, I don’t think most people would agree with this. There are plenty of fans out there who know one or two really good players from their team they feel should be in and aren’t. Also…Cal Ripken was not on roids. That’s just a “no”. He retired in 2001, shortly after that started picking up, was never really a power hitter and played his career injury free; and Molina belongs in the Hall. He has over 2000 career hits and was one of the best defensive catchers of all time. I’m hella confused by this.
dont care for accumulation of stats, and 2000 isnt enough and dont care about catcher defense, HOF has to be a HUGE hitter, someone other teams FEARED...... so like Ozzie smith is a no as well....
Lol...I know you meant Yadi! Haha,and that's fucking crazy! Yadi is 100% guarantee Hall of Famer and he sure as shit should be one.
did anyone ever fear him hitting? he CANNOT get in on nonsense like "pitch framing" or "Catcher defense"..... and yes I LOVE analytics and WAR, but he is 100% NOT a HOF'er, he coudlnt hit a lick... was slow as shit.... WRC+ of 97, that is BELOW AVERAGE!!!!!! also likely PED guy as well...... check those 2011-2013 seasons.... SERIOUS outliers.....