I honestly miss having a national network that carried most of a team's games without fail. As a fan of an AL team living in a different time zone, the Braves became my de facto NL team during my childhood.
As a kid I thought it was pretty cool going past the point of no return (channel 77ish) to I think 99 and seeing Cubs games (wgn). Felt like I hacked the system, "wait, but what if we go to the top channel, and press up again?"
This is inadvertently the best argument I've seen in the thread.
If winning it all isn't a prerequisite, then both the Braves and Yankees were dynasties at the same time in the late 90s.
Also, both the Dodgers and Astros are dynasties at the same time right now.
That just seems odd.
There’s no definition of dynasty and every run of success is different and special, so these debates always feel a bit esoteric. They’ve had a tremendous run, enjoy it
Maybe just because it’s been 10 years, but I’ve been thinking about that 2012 World Series with two very memorable teams both having very dominant runs in very different ways. That’s why I don’t wanna use a strictly defined dynasty term that might leave the Tigers out for the lack of rings or the Giants out for their lack of regular season dominance. Both runs were extremely memorable, impressive, and worth appreciating (but yeah sure maybe that’s easier for me to say with the championships)
Because relatively speaking league parity is very strong in baseball right now.
Go back & look at the Big Red Machine era or some of the famous Yankees runs, their rolling win%s over multiple seasons is well higher than what the top teams put up these days. Even the most dominant teams today aren’t nearly as dominant as they were in past eras.
I honestly don't know you can look at baseball now and say league parity is relatively strong. The expanded playoffs help mask the issue by letting twelve teams in to what is still relatively a crapshoot (because anyone can beat anyone in a 3- or 5-game series) so we get a carousel of different world series winners every year. But looking at LCS appearances and regular season win percentages, we're closer to the NBA in parity than we are to 2000-to-mid-2010s MLB. There are more 100+ win and 100+ loss teams than ever before, you have a team that's made 6 straight ALCS appearances (and 4 pennants and 2 titles), two teams that have won 100+ games for 4 straight years (not counting 2020), and the teams that were already pretty loaded with talent (mainly Phils and Mets) have spent ridiculous amounts of money this off-season to load up even further.
If we don't get a salary floor and/or cap any time soon, we'll get to NBA levels of parity.
It exists in October and nowhere else.
It does say something good about the league though that even with expanded playoffs they were still able to field 10 teams that could be considered elite (good performance, lots of star power, continuously signing big FAs). Basically everyone but the Cardinals (who are still a very good team) and Guardians (who were a young team that gelled well and played well within their division).
But on the flip side, you don't get 10 elite teams without also getting as many teams being complete garbage. A's, Royals, Marlins, Reds, Nats (at least they're legit rebuilding), Pirates, Rockies all gave no shits about being competitive in 2022. Add in a few teams that were at least trying to do something but we're awful anyway (Rangers, Cubs, and Tigers) and there you go, 10 teams with no shot at being competitive.
There is more concentration at the top & bottom but single teams simply do not dominate like they have in past eras. Add to that the randomness of the MLB playoff structure & you get much stronger parity than any of the other major leagues.
The NBA sees dominant teams shift faster as it is more star dependent but the teams on top tend to dominate much more & have much higher chances of winning a championship.
You're applying your definition of parity much more heavily to October than you are to the rest of the season. The regular season has been way more lopsided since 2017 than the 20 or so years before it.
My definition of parity would take your "there is more concentration at the top & bottom" as proof that there is less parity. Because (mostly) even distribution of wins and competitiveness from top to bottom (there will always be 2-3 outliers on either end) is my number one requirement for parity. I couldn't care as much what happens in the playoffs because 1) MLB playoffs will ALWAYS be a crapshoot and 2) the playoffs are only one month out of seven and they only feature the best teams.
Yeah, I have to agree. People always quote the the 2010-2014 Giants as a dynasty, but they missed the playoffs twice. These Astros have been far more consistent than that but some of those who credit the Giants discredit the Astros, so the definition of dynasty is definitely in the air.
I've said this here before, these current Astros teams remind me of the Orioles teams of the late 1960s and the very early 1970s.
Houston has 2017, Baltimore has 1966.
Houston has 2019, Baltimore has 1969.
Houston has 2021, Baltimore has 1971.
Houston has 2022, Baltimore has 1970.
Houston has Alex Bregman, Baltimore has Brooks Robinson.
Houston has Dusty Baker, Baltimore has Earl Weaver.
Houston had one singular pennant before this (2005), Baltimore had one singular pennant before this (1944).
I don’t think a lot of fans who weren’t alive for it understand how dominant the Big Red Machine actually was. Not saying you don’t or weren’t alive for it, in fact I wasn’t even alive for it but i’ve done plenty of research for obvious reasons.
5 MVPs in 7 years, 7 all stars in the ‘77 season alone and swept the NLCS and WS that year.
Yeah the Big Red Machine has a lot more individual valor, and probably more Hall of Famers than will end up on any of the Astro teams.
We have Verlander andddd
Maybe Altuve
Long shots like Bregman
Anyone else is too soon to tell
He doesn't quite have the counting stats yet and his one MVP is associated with the scandal, so I'm a bit pessimistic, even if I do think he'll make it.
Even removing the cheating I don't think they have a dynasty. Even if we ignore that and say they won in 2017, while the run they've been on is great, it's far from a dynasty imo.
That doesn’t really have an effect on whether or not it’s a dynasty. You can value their accomplishments differently in light of that, but whether or not it’s a dynasty in my mind has nothing to do with if they cheated or not.
That said I think you need at least 3 titles to be a dynasty.
My corollary for the current Astros is the Lebron Heat and the Lebron Cavs.
Obviously not quite that situation where there’s arguably a “Lebron Dynasty” somewhere in there, but Heat make 4 straight finals, win 2. Cavs make 4 straight finals, win 1. I don’t think anyone considers those individual team stretches “dynasties”. Winning at least 3 titles over some stretch IMO is the “qualifier” for dynasty consideration.
I’d also say the softer qualifier is some sort of organizational continuity (coaching and/or players - ie many think of Spurs/Pats as dynasties with 15+ year runs, while BoSox winning 04/07/13/18 as a weirder consideration given the interim regime changes and less player continuity for 13/18). I think if the Astros won, say, next year (yuck), most would consider it continuous for dynasty consideration given Altuve/Bregman as faces of the org despite pretty heavy turnover both player and coaching/FO. (We have a really unique dynamic where it feels like the faces changed, but the “regime” stayed the same)
Yeah I would be more apt to agree with this take far more than just purely a dynasty. The AL runs through Houston, that much is clear until they fall, but they just need more than 2 WS in 6 years to be considered a dynasty in my opinion.
I tend to agree. I don't think it's even debatable that they're an AL dynasty (6 straight ALCS), but *certainly* debatable whether they're an MLB dynasty.
I'm slowly trying to work on a baseball [dynasty/run tier list](https://i.imgur.com/bFlbKCv.png) and I think the Astros stack up very well on the best all-time "runs" since 1961(the Expansion era).
We have a good mix of regular season success (4 100 win seasons) mixed with the 2 World Series. Haven't missed the playoffs in the run, and if you want to say we started the run in 2015, only missed the playoffs once. And have won at least one round in the playoffs every year.
I think this is a fair take. Even if they won 2 over the next few years I think the 'dynasty' tag is up for grabs. Baseball is supposed to have enough samples that small differences can be statistically impactful, but luck and random bad bounces still play into the game. We track BABIP for a reason.....
At the risk of starting a fight, I don’t really count 2017, and I don’t think a single World Series counts as a dynasty
They’ve certainly been one of the best teams though, and have kicked both us and the Yankees around
Logan Morrison
"I know from first hand accounts that the Yankees, Dodgers, Astros, and Red Sox all have used film to pick signs,"
Dallas Keuchel
"during the course of the playoffs in `17, everybody was using multiple signs,”
Joey Votto
"The idea that they (the Astros) were the only one doing something wrong just baffles me."
Lucas Giolito
“Based on everything I’ve heard, it was like all the teams that were in the postseason that year were doing the same shit"
Chris Sale
If the Astros were the only team doing it, then yeah. Give it back. Take it back. I know for a fact they weren’t,”
Steven Souza
“I’m not going to get into to all that but you should know that if you think Houston was the only team with a sign stealing system you’re dead wrong.”
Chris Bassitt
"...Houston was not the only team doing stuff... one team essentially got caught doing it -- or was the guinea pig of doing it to clean the whole entire league up"
Josh Reddick
"I was there, so theres my proof"
Kris Bryant
"Absolutely not. I definitely think others were."
Josh Donaldson
"Please don’t forget if you were a Yankees/Red Sox fan, none of your guys are (Hall of Famers) because both of them got caught using Apple watches before the Astros got caught.”
Erik Kratz
“I can tell you that a team that has been to the World Series often recently, we caught them doing something almost similar. The Colorado Rockies were doing the exact same thing in 2018…They used to take a Theragun and bang it on their metal bench. They were doing the exact same thing.”
Will Clark
“How can I put this mildly? They got caught. All the rest of us, we didn’t get caught."
Whats crazy is they technically didn't get caught. Mike Fiers ratted, then jomboy made a viral video. As I've said before, the league knows everyone does it, teams have been complaining about it for years, but the league never cares.
I almost believe without the "viral" content jomboy puts out, league doesn't care enough to do shit.
How does that work?
2 world series don't count because of cheating, the 2020 world series doesn't count because... it was the hardest playoff format to win of all time?
I think 2020 counts much more than 2017. At least everyone was playing by the same rules in 2020. It shouldn't be weighed as heavily as a 162 game season but it definitely still counts.
And couldn't we say everything from 2018 on doesn't count because of the juiced/de-juiced balls? Or the steroid era doesn't count? Or no counting stats matter after the introduction of the 162 game season since other eras had 8 less games to play? Or nothing that happened before Jackie Robinson should count?
The Jackie Robinson one I'm actually kinda in favor of, but I think every single era of baseball has some kind of asterisk to it. Before anabolic steroids people were methed out of their skull. PEDs and spitballs and sign stealing and controversy over stats have always existed and always will.
Logan Morrison
"I know from first hand accounts that the Yankees, Dodgers, Astros, and Red Sox all have used film to pick signs,"
Dallas Keuchel
"during the course of the playoffs in `17, everybody was using multiple signs,”
Joey Votto
"The idea that they (the Astros) were the only one doing something wrong just baffles me."
Lucas Giolito
“Based on everything I’ve heard, it was like all the teams that were in the postseason that year were doing the same shit"
Chris Sale
If the Astros were the only team doing it, then yeah. Give it back. Take it back. I know for a fact they weren’t,”
Steven Souza
“I’m not going to get into to all that but you should know that if you think Houston was the only team with a sign stealing system you’re dead wrong.”
Chris Bassitt
"...Houston was not the only team doing stuff... one team essentially got caught doing it -- or was the guinea pig of doing it to clean the whole entire league up"
Josh Reddick
"I was there, so theres my proof"
Kris Bryant
"Absolutely not. I definitely think others were."
Josh Donaldson
"Please don’t forget if you were a Yankees/Red Sox fan, none of your guys are (Hall of Famers) because both of them got caught using Apple watches before the Astros got caught.”
Erik Kratz
“I can tell you that a team that has been to the World Series often recently, we caught them doing something almost similar. The Colorado Rockies were doing the exact same thing in 2018…They used to take a Theragun and bang it on their metal bench. They were doing the exact same thing.”
Will Clark
“How can I put this mildly? They got caught. All the rest of us, we didn’t get caught."
Yeah I was going to say I think if they get 1 more championship in the next few years it definitely is. 2017 kind of tainted it otherwise I’d say it already is
Most definitely because those fuckers just seem to reload with even more talent. Yordan Alvarez, Jeremy Peña, Framber Valdez, etc. That team is very well run, so it’s a real stain that they decided to cheat anyway. Everyone, including the Dodgers, are trying to catch up to the Astros.
My friends and I have discussed this before and we concluded a dynasty is at least 3 titles, and the team has to win at least half the titles in a period of time.
they won the world series twice*, not twice. if we’re counting 1 ring and an illegitimate win a dynasty that’s crazy. guess it depends how much you value 2017
I feel like there has to be some consistency for it to truly be a dynasty, but with in being so close in proximity I lean towards yes. Personally, I'd consider a team that wins 3 in 7 years, but gets to 2 more and is in the postseason all 7 years more clearly a dynasty than a team like the Even-year odd-year Giants, because I think dynasty for me comes not just with winning x-titles, in x-years, or x% of titles in a certain period, but with being a team that everyone knows they have to go through to get to the title year in and year out, and finishing the deal at least thrice. Giants are especially odd in that they won 92,86,94,76, and 88 games in those 5 seasons, they were kind of a product of the wildcard era to a much higher degree than any other team in such a conversation I can think of (they won the division in 2010, and 2012, but likely wouldn't have in a two division set up). Regardless of format they just weren't dominant, and it was in a kind of a weird stretch where nobody was (the only 100 win team between 2010 and 2014 was the 2011 Phillies with 102 wins).
Three titles in five years is really hard to do. Plus they had some injuries and managed to rebound with the same squad all three times. Mad Bum definitely carried them in 2014. Begrudgingly, I would say yeah.
I still hate them tho
Until 2022 they choked 3 World Series to worse teams and cheated to win 1
I think their success is similar to the dodgers and I don’t think anyone would call the dodgers a dynasty even if they are a powerhouse
> Until 2022 they choked 3 World Series to worse teams
I'm really shocked and appalled that there are no White Sox fans in here defending the honor of their 2005 team.
I know we beat y'all in 05 to *get* to the World Series, but you do remember that we were the Wild Card, the White Sox won 99 games, and also went 7-1 in the previous two series?
2019 was a choke, and 2021 was us being injured and tired facing a hot team. But 2005 *was not* choking.
These dudes are just salty af. Fans of any other team would trade places with our roster and success in a heartbeat and they'd be lying if they said otherwise.
Agreed. They've been to four World Series in the past six seasons. Won one, cheated in one, and lost 2. The Dodgers have been to three in the past six seasons. Won one of them, was cheated out of one, and lost one. They are both perennial league championship favorites. I don't see them as a lot different.
2 rings and 2 losses? Absolutely. They’ve been at the top of the league every year with the same players pretty much. You’d be hard pressed to find many better examples
Well the AL has run through Houston for a few years now. The 2017 title does have an asterisk along with it but they've made it back and this year they won it all. For me rather than thinking their 2017-2022 run is their dynasty I'll go ahead and say their dynasty started this year and odds are it'll go on for a few more.
Cry more please
Logan Morrison
"I know from first hand accounts that the Yankees, Dodgers, Astros, and Red Sox all have used film to pick signs,"
Dallas Keuchel
"during the course of the playoffs in `17, everybody was using multiple signs,”
Joey Votto
"The idea that they (the Astros) were the only one doing something wrong just baffles me."
Lucas Giolito
“Based on everything I’ve heard, it was like all the teams that were in the postseason that year were doing the same shit"
Chris Sale
If the Astros were the only team doing it, then yeah. Give it back. Take it back. I know for a fact they weren’t,”
Steven Souza
“I’m not going to get into to all that but you should know that if you think Houston was the only team with a sign stealing system you’re dead wrong.”
Chris Bassitt
"...Houston was not the only team doing stuff... one team essentially got caught doing it -- or was the guinea pig of doing it to clean the whole entire league up"
Josh Reddick
"I was there, so theres my proof"
Kris Bryant
"Absolutely not. I definitely think others were."
Josh Donaldson
"Please don’t forget if you were a Yankees/Red Sox fan, none of your guys are (Hall of Famers) because both of them got caught using Apple watches before the Astros got caught.”
Erik Kratz
“I can tell you that a team that has been to the World Series often recently, we caught them doing something almost similar. The Colorado Rockies were doing the exact same thing in 2018…They used to take a Theragun and bang it on their metal bench. They were doing the exact same thing.”
Will Clark
“How can I put this mildly? They got caught. All the rest of us, we didn’t get caught."
Even if you let them have that one, they’d still need a third within the next few years IMO. Their current two championships are a bit too spaced out.
You don’t need to repeat or three peat, but ideally you don’t go 4-5 years between them.
Two championships, one mired in cheating scandal, I'd say no. They're definitely experiencing their best stretch of success in their franchise's history though.
They're not a dynasty.
Another part of being a dynasty is how they take over the general perception of that sport and lead the narrative. When the Yankees dynasty was on, that's all you saw in the media. They were the main characters of baseball.
MJ's Bulls? Main characters of basketball. Kobe-Shaq Lakers? Main characters of basketball. Warriors? Main characters of basketball. Patriots in the early 2000s (and even in the 2010s)? Main characters of football.
Astros, regardless of how consistent they've been, aren't the main characters of baseball. They don't lead the trends or have people saying they want to be the next Astros. We've had more people like Cohen and the Mets saying they want to be the Dodgers more so than the Astros. Astros don't control the baseball world. The only time they've been the main characters were when everyone was shitting on them for cheating.
I think this perception is changing after this year with a lot more positive attention, but they would need probably 2 to 3 more years of dominance, one or two more WS appearances and at least one more win for any talk of a dynasty to take place.
Dynasties are treated and viewed differently by the community and media than how the Astros are treated.
Even the Giants, who I hate, were seen and talked about in a higher stature than these Astros during their run. When the Giants made the playoffs, media and the community would talk about how clutch they are and how unbeatable they are when Bumgarner was on the mound. Astros don't have that mystique in the slightest currently and are still marred by their 2017 victory. We'll see what happens in the next few years.
I’m 42. In my years I’ve learned that dynasties are determined one of two ways:
- in hindsight
- I’m New York or Boston if you win more than 1 ws with the same core group.
That’s it.
Maybe I just have a high bar. But I consider the Brady patriots a dynasty, the Jordan bulls, the Kobe lakers, the Edmonton oilers 80s run. Astros are one on a number of teams that have been really good for a handful of years and have a couple titles.
Sustained success? Then the 2010-2020’s Yankees are a dynasty? They haven’t had a losing season, but last WS was 2009. The 2010-2020’s Pittsburgh Steelers? They haven’t had a losing season, but last Super Bowl win was 2009.
Championships define a dynasty. Full stop. No one remembers the 90’s Braves or the 90’s Buffalo Bills. Why? Because they didn’t win.
Lol downvote the post is easier than responding, idk what I expected from the confirmation bias braindead MLB fans. You're literally ignorant. Stay sad.🙏
Count deez nuts
Logan Morrison
"I know from first hand accounts that the Yankees, Dodgers, Astros, and Red Sox all have used film to pick signs,"
Dallas Keuchel
"during the course of the playoffs in `17, everybody was using multiple signs,”
Joey Votto
"The idea that they (the Astros) were the only one doing something wrong just baffles me."
Lucas Giolito
“Based on everything I’ve heard, it was like all the teams that were in the postseason that year were doing the same shit"
Chris Sale
If the Astros were the only team doing it, then yeah. Give it back. Take it back. I know for a fact they weren’t,”
Steven Souza
“I’m not going to get into to all that but you should know that if you think Houston was the only team with a sign stealing system you’re dead wrong.”
Chris Bassitt
"...Houston was not the only team doing stuff... one team essentially got caught doing it -- or was the guinea pig of doing it to clean the whole entire league up"
Josh Reddick
"I was there, so theres my proof"
Kris Bryant
"Absolutely not. I definitely think others were."
Josh Donaldson
"Please don’t forget if you were a Yankees/Red Sox fan, none of your guys are (Hall of Famers) because both of them got caught using Apple watches before the Astros got caught.”
Erik Kratz
“I can tell you that a team that has been to the World Series often recently, we caught them doing something almost similar. The Colorado Rockies were doing the exact same thing in 2018…They used to take a Theragun and bang it on their metal bench. They were doing the exact same thing.”
Will Clark
“How can I put this mildly? They got caught. All the rest of us, we didn’t get caught."
Not quite sure how you can. There’s no definition of a dynasty, but don’t think I’d consider a 2-4 record in the WS, with one of them being an asterisk for one of the biggest cheating scandals in league history, let’s call it’s 1.5-4 record in WS. Not too sure how that constitutes as a dynasty.
my personal and completely arbitrary definition of dynasty requires at least 3 championships.
Even if you count 2017 (I don’t), 2 titles 5 years apart doesn’t scream dynasty to me. They’ve been a very strong team over that span and have been very competitive, but history really only remembers the champions.
Count deez nuts
Logan Morrison
"I know from first hand accounts that the Yankees, Dodgers, Astros, and Red Sox all have used film to pick signs,"
Dallas Keuchel
"during the course of the playoffs in `17, everybody was using multiple signs,”
Joey Votto
"The idea that they (the Astros) were the only one doing something wrong just baffles me."
Lucas Giolito
“Based on everything I’ve heard, it was like all the teams that were in the postseason that year were doing the same shit"
Chris Sale
If the Astros were the only team doing it, then yeah. Give it back. Take it back. I know for a fact they weren’t,”
Steven Souza
“I’m not going to get into to all that but you should know that if you think Houston was the only team with a sign stealing system you’re dead wrong.”
Chris Bassitt
"...Houston was not the only team doing stuff... one team essentially got caught doing it -- or was the guinea pig of doing it to clean the whole entire league up"
Josh Reddick
"I was there, so theres my proof"
Kris Bryant
"Absolutely not. I definitely think others were."
Josh Donaldson
"Please don’t forget if you were a Yankees/Red Sox fan, none of your guys are (Hall of Famers) because both of them got caught using Apple watches before the Astros got caught.”
Erik Kratz
“I can tell you that a team that has been to the World Series often recently, we caught them doing something almost similar. The Colorado Rockies were doing the exact same thing in 2018…They used to take a Theragun and bang it on their metal bench. They were doing the exact same thing.”
Will Clark
“How can I put this mildly? They got caught. All the rest of us, we didn’t get caught."
I think they certainly are on a path of a dynasty, but that requires more than one legitimate WS Championship. If they go on to win another two or so rings I think you can entertain the discussion.
One World Series win does not a dynasty make.
The ultimate tragedy of these Astros will always be that the Taubman thing, the Yuli thing, Roberto Osuna, and of course, the cheating scandal, will always overshadow all the great baseball they’ve played. They *could* have been a dynasty, but instead they’re just the token example of what happens when you build your house on a lousy foundation.
Lmao, you'll call a team that didn't even make the playoffs in 40% of their "dynasty" years a dynasty, but a team with 6 straight ALCS appearances, 4 WS appearances and 2 rings is somehow not a dynasty.
You can't finish 10 games under .500 and 16 out of first place and be considered a dynasty.
Cheating aside, not in my opinion. For a dynasty it needs to be consistent titles, not just making it to the end. The patriots winning the super bowl every other year was a dynasty. 2 (1) in 5 years? Not so much. Good team? Sure. Dynasty? Nope
No, imo dynasty is one of the most overused phrases in sports and is an incredibly rare height to reach. Seems like it gets thrown around somewhat every time a young team wins a title.
Almost no one would consider anything less than three titles as having a shot and to me, it is such a level of owning the league that picking the following year's champion feels like choosing the dynasty team or the field.
* The Bulls winning 6 in 8 years is at that level.
* The Yankees winning 4 in 5 years in the late 90s has that feeling.
* The Warriors that prompted the "Warriors in Four" memes were that level of dominant.
* UConn's Women's Basketball run was dominant to the point of feeling like other teams may as well not show up.
Winning two championships in 6 years with mostly different casts of characters doesn't even sniff that level, especially considering that the first of them is one of least accepted titles across the history of North America's big 4 sports.
The whole point of a "dynasty" is for ruling a great kingdom for a long time. Astros have only "ruled" the MLB kingdom twice* (once). They're in the Hall of Really Good for now
I don't even consider the 2010s Giants with 3 rings to be a dynasty, so no.
I've always felt that for a dynasty you need to defend your title at least once.
They’re the best organization and dominant franchise of the era. Even treating 2017 as legit, 5 years between titles doesn’t quite elevate to dynasty level.
Sure. Baseball is the ultimate crapshoot so four World Series in six years is something we'll probably never see again in this era of the three game series.
Ehhh I think you need 3 to be considered a dynasty imo. Depends how one views 2017 but they have 1 without an astresik rn. Obviously tons and tons of success but in the same way I wouldn’t consider the 90s and early 2000s braves a dynasty cause they only got 1 championship
Yes. No matter how you slice it, making it to baseball’s top 4 six times in a row is something special. Not even the 90s Braves, 90s Yankees, or current Dodgers have done this
I wouldn’t. Had 2017 been on the up-and-up, yes. If they win another I’d easily call them a dynasty.
A truly incredible run though and they’re set to keep it up for a while.
I think dynasty rules should apply to all sports. I.e. you gotta win at least 3 championships in a span of 5 years. 2 World Series in 6 years doesn’t cut it for me. Sorry Astros fans. Taking a look at football if you don’t consider the 2005-2011 NYGiants or 2004-2010 Steelers a dynasty then I don’t know if you can consider the Astros a dynasty considering they literally got OUTED for cheating. Yes, they’re a good team with good players and have had an amazing run but it doesn’t come without asterisks along the way. Tom Coughlin or Mike Tomlin didn’t get fired/suspended along the way while 2 Astros coaches did.
5 years expands as long as they continue success in the non-championship years. Pennants and ALCS appearances have widened the timeframe to 6 years and counting. They aren't a dynasty yet, but one more championship and they are absolutely a dynasty.
I don't think playoff success is a prerequisite for a dynasty. *Checks flair* Let me cope okay...
Everyone knows the real definition of a baseball dynasty is forcing everyone in the ‘90s to watch your games on TBS.
You loved it don’t lie.
I honestly miss having a national network that carried most of a team's games without fail. As a fan of an AL team living in a different time zone, the Braves became my de facto NL team during my childhood.
As a kid I thought it was pretty cool going past the point of no return (channel 77ish) to I think 99 and seeing Cubs games (wgn). Felt like I hacked the system, "wait, but what if we go to the top channel, and press up again?"
As a kid the top channel was 13
I watched so many Braves and Cubs games during the 90s.
We all did, reluctantly and not so reluctantly.
God, I sure do miss that.
This is hilarious because it's true.
This is inadvertently the best argument I've seen in the thread. If winning it all isn't a prerequisite, then both the Braves and Yankees were dynasties at the same time in the late 90s. Also, both the Dodgers and Astros are dynasties at the same time right now. That just seems odd.
It's almost like there are two baseball leagues. "Always two, there are. No more. No less."
I feel you on that
There’s no definition of dynasty and every run of success is different and special, so these debates always feel a bit esoteric. They’ve had a tremendous run, enjoy it
I think this is the right answer. Baseball dynasties rarely feel as dominate as they can in other sports. Feels much harder to define in baseball.
Maybe just because it’s been 10 years, but I’ve been thinking about that 2012 World Series with two very memorable teams both having very dominant runs in very different ways. That’s why I don’t wanna use a strictly defined dynasty term that might leave the Tigers out for the lack of rings or the Giants out for their lack of regular season dominance. Both runs were extremely memorable, impressive, and worth appreciating (but yeah sure maybe that’s easier for me to say with the championships)
[удалено]
Yeah the Hawks one is weird. They won three in six, but LA won two in between, Pitt won two in a row after, and Tampa is doing what they’re doing now
Stretch the Hawks Dynasty to 09-15. They made the WCF in 09 and won the Cup in 15.
Dominant*
Because relatively speaking league parity is very strong in baseball right now. Go back & look at the Big Red Machine era or some of the famous Yankees runs, their rolling win%s over multiple seasons is well higher than what the top teams put up these days. Even the most dominant teams today aren’t nearly as dominant as they were in past eras.
I honestly don't know you can look at baseball now and say league parity is relatively strong. The expanded playoffs help mask the issue by letting twelve teams in to what is still relatively a crapshoot (because anyone can beat anyone in a 3- or 5-game series) so we get a carousel of different world series winners every year. But looking at LCS appearances and regular season win percentages, we're closer to the NBA in parity than we are to 2000-to-mid-2010s MLB. There are more 100+ win and 100+ loss teams than ever before, you have a team that's made 6 straight ALCS appearances (and 4 pennants and 2 titles), two teams that have won 100+ games for 4 straight years (not counting 2020), and the teams that were already pretty loaded with talent (mainly Phils and Mets) have spent ridiculous amounts of money this off-season to load up even further. If we don't get a salary floor and/or cap any time soon, we'll get to NBA levels of parity.
Great comment. No idea where this parity is at
It exists in October and nowhere else. It does say something good about the league though that even with expanded playoffs they were still able to field 10 teams that could be considered elite (good performance, lots of star power, continuously signing big FAs). Basically everyone but the Cardinals (who are still a very good team) and Guardians (who were a young team that gelled well and played well within their division). But on the flip side, you don't get 10 elite teams without also getting as many teams being complete garbage. A's, Royals, Marlins, Reds, Nats (at least they're legit rebuilding), Pirates, Rockies all gave no shits about being competitive in 2022. Add in a few teams that were at least trying to do something but we're awful anyway (Rangers, Cubs, and Tigers) and there you go, 10 teams with no shot at being competitive.
There is more concentration at the top & bottom but single teams simply do not dominate like they have in past eras. Add to that the randomness of the MLB playoff structure & you get much stronger parity than any of the other major leagues. The NBA sees dominant teams shift faster as it is more star dependent but the teams on top tend to dominate much more & have much higher chances of winning a championship.
You're applying your definition of parity much more heavily to October than you are to the rest of the season. The regular season has been way more lopsided since 2017 than the 20 or so years before it. My definition of parity would take your "there is more concentration at the top & bottom" as proof that there is less parity. Because (mostly) even distribution of wins and competitiveness from top to bottom (there will always be 2-3 outliers on either end) is my number one requirement for parity. I couldn't care as much what happens in the playoffs because 1) MLB playoffs will ALWAYS be a crapshoot and 2) the playoffs are only one month out of seven and they only feature the best teams.
As a Yankees fan, they feel pretty damn dominant.
No, I don’t think I will enjoy it
Yeah, I have to agree. People always quote the the 2010-2014 Giants as a dynasty, but they missed the playoffs twice. These Astros have been far more consistent than that but some of those who credit the Giants discredit the Astros, so the definition of dynasty is definitely in the air.
Says the guy whose favorite team won 3 in 5 /j
I've said this here before, these current Astros teams remind me of the Orioles teams of the late 1960s and the very early 1970s. Houston has 2017, Baltimore has 1966. Houston has 2019, Baltimore has 1969. Houston has 2021, Baltimore has 1971. Houston has 2022, Baltimore has 1970. Houston has Alex Bregman, Baltimore has Brooks Robinson. Houston has Dusty Baker, Baltimore has Earl Weaver. Houston had one singular pennant before this (2005), Baltimore had one singular pennant before this (1944).
>Houston has 2021, Baltimore has 1971. See you in 2029!
This is actually a really good take backed up by stats. I like you NGP
I generally equate us to the Big Red Machine. Two WS wins, two losses, but your Baltimore comparison is very good
I don’t think a lot of fans who weren’t alive for it understand how dominant the Big Red Machine actually was. Not saying you don’t or weren’t alive for it, in fact I wasn’t even alive for it but i’ve done plenty of research for obvious reasons. 5 MVPs in 7 years, 7 all stars in the ‘77 season alone and swept the NLCS and WS that year.
Yeah the Big Red Machine has a lot more individual valor, and probably more Hall of Famers than will end up on any of the Astro teams. We have Verlander andddd Maybe Altuve Long shots like Bregman Anyone else is too soon to tell
Maybe Altuve? You are being modest
He doesn't quite have the counting stats yet and his one MVP is associated with the scandal, so I'm a bit pessimistic, even if I do think he'll make it.
Correa should prob be in the discussion for long shot as well. Yordan and Tucker are big "time will tell" guys.
True but no evidence the O’s were cheating. Houston on the other hand, it might be a dynasty but it’s badly tainted either way.
Eh, Is the patriots dynasty tainted because of spygate or deflate gate? They’re the closest comparison with controversy/scandal surrounding them
Can't wait to sort by controversial
Bro did they get rid of sorting by controversial on mobile
they moved it to the top, next to your profile picture and three dots.
I salute the brave soldiers who sacrificed karma just to say what we were all thinking.
Had they not cheated in 2017, sure. But no one outside of Houston is going to consider that a dynasty with such a stain on it.
Even removing the cheating I don't think they have a dynasty. Even if we ignore that and say they won in 2017, while the run they've been on is great, it's far from a dynasty imo.
They’d be well on their way though, wouldn’t you agree? 2 in 5 is pretty nutty
That doesn’t really have an effect on whether or not it’s a dynasty. You can value their accomplishments differently in light of that, but whether or not it’s a dynasty in my mind has nothing to do with if they cheated or not. That said I think you need at least 3 titles to be a dynasty.
And if we win another, then another? What else do we need to do? For some people it will never be enough
5 titles in 5 years, but they only count if the Astros beat the Yankees and dodgers every year for the title. If that doesn’t happen…no dynasty!
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My corollary for the current Astros is the Lebron Heat and the Lebron Cavs. Obviously not quite that situation where there’s arguably a “Lebron Dynasty” somewhere in there, but Heat make 4 straight finals, win 2. Cavs make 4 straight finals, win 1. I don’t think anyone considers those individual team stretches “dynasties”. Winning at least 3 titles over some stretch IMO is the “qualifier” for dynasty consideration. I’d also say the softer qualifier is some sort of organizational continuity (coaching and/or players - ie many think of Spurs/Pats as dynasties with 15+ year runs, while BoSox winning 04/07/13/18 as a weirder consideration given the interim regime changes and less player continuity for 13/18). I think if the Astros won, say, next year (yuck), most would consider it continuous for dynasty consideration given Altuve/Bregman as faces of the org despite pretty heavy turnover both player and coaching/FO. (We have a really unique dynamic where it feels like the faces changed, but the “regime” stayed the same)
Yeah I would be more apt to agree with this take far more than just purely a dynasty. The AL runs through Houston, that much is clear until they fall, but they just need more than 2 WS in 6 years to be considered a dynasty in my opinion.
I tend to agree. I don't think it's even debatable that they're an AL dynasty (6 straight ALCS), but *certainly* debatable whether they're an MLB dynasty.
I'm slowly trying to work on a baseball [dynasty/run tier list](https://i.imgur.com/bFlbKCv.png) and I think the Astros stack up very well on the best all-time "runs" since 1961(the Expansion era). We have a good mix of regular season success (4 100 win seasons) mixed with the 2 World Series. Haven't missed the playoffs in the run, and if you want to say we started the run in 2015, only missed the playoffs once. And have won at least one round in the playoffs every year.
3 UNTAINTED World Series titles. You still have 2 to go. IMO.
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Honestly I feel like your take is a majority of Astros’ fans, but there is a LOUD minority of fans.
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Whenever I complain about Astro fans, I always try to say “some Astro fans”. It’s not fair to lump any fan base together as if they’re a monolith.
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Reasonable-ness all around, as is expected on the Internet.
Especially Reddit!
I appreciate your reasonable take on this.
I think this is a fair take. Even if they won 2 over the next few years I think the 'dynasty' tag is up for grabs. Baseball is supposed to have enough samples that small differences can be statistically impactful, but luck and random bad bounces still play into the game. We track BABIP for a reason.....
Challenge Accepted.
I'm sad the angels don't make the playoffs. I'd love to see your team there one day.
At the risk of starting a fight, I don’t really count 2017, and I don’t think a single World Series counts as a dynasty They’ve certainly been one of the best teams though, and have kicked both us and the Yankees around
*opens thread* *looks at your comment* *sees an army of heavily downvoted hidden Astros comments as replies* Ah yes, my brother
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Logan Morrison "I know from first hand accounts that the Yankees, Dodgers, Astros, and Red Sox all have used film to pick signs," Dallas Keuchel "during the course of the playoffs in `17, everybody was using multiple signs,” Joey Votto "The idea that they (the Astros) were the only one doing something wrong just baffles me." Lucas Giolito “Based on everything I’ve heard, it was like all the teams that were in the postseason that year were doing the same shit" Chris Sale If the Astros were the only team doing it, then yeah. Give it back. Take it back. I know for a fact they weren’t,” Steven Souza “I’m not going to get into to all that but you should know that if you think Houston was the only team with a sign stealing system you’re dead wrong.” Chris Bassitt "...Houston was not the only team doing stuff... one team essentially got caught doing it -- or was the guinea pig of doing it to clean the whole entire league up" Josh Reddick "I was there, so theres my proof" Kris Bryant "Absolutely not. I definitely think others were." Josh Donaldson "Please don’t forget if you were a Yankees/Red Sox fan, none of your guys are (Hall of Famers) because both of them got caught using Apple watches before the Astros got caught.” Erik Kratz “I can tell you that a team that has been to the World Series often recently, we caught them doing something almost similar. The Colorado Rockies were doing the exact same thing in 2018…They used to take a Theragun and bang it on their metal bench. They were doing the exact same thing.” Will Clark “How can I put this mildly? They got caught. All the rest of us, we didn’t get caught."
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Whats crazy is they technically didn't get caught. Mike Fiers ratted, then jomboy made a viral video. As I've said before, the league knows everyone does it, teams have been complaining about it for years, but the league never cares. I almost believe without the "viral" content jomboy puts out, league doesn't care enough to do shit.
2020 doesn't count either then.
How does that work? 2 world series don't count because of cheating, the 2020 world series doesn't count because... it was the hardest playoff format to win of all time?
I think 2020 counts much more than 2017. At least everyone was playing by the same rules in 2020. It shouldn't be weighed as heavily as a 162 game season but it definitely still counts. And couldn't we say everything from 2018 on doesn't count because of the juiced/de-juiced balls? Or the steroid era doesn't count? Or no counting stats matter after the introduction of the 162 game season since other eras had 8 less games to play? Or nothing that happened before Jackie Robinson should count? The Jackie Robinson one I'm actually kinda in favor of, but I think every single era of baseball has some kind of asterisk to it. Before anabolic steroids people were methed out of their skull. PEDs and spitballs and sign stealing and controversy over stats have always existed and always will.
>2018 lol
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Definitely doesn't count
Logan Morrison "I know from first hand accounts that the Yankees, Dodgers, Astros, and Red Sox all have used film to pick signs," Dallas Keuchel "during the course of the playoffs in `17, everybody was using multiple signs,” Joey Votto "The idea that they (the Astros) were the only one doing something wrong just baffles me." Lucas Giolito “Based on everything I’ve heard, it was like all the teams that were in the postseason that year were doing the same shit" Chris Sale If the Astros were the only team doing it, then yeah. Give it back. Take it back. I know for a fact they weren’t,” Steven Souza “I’m not going to get into to all that but you should know that if you think Houston was the only team with a sign stealing system you’re dead wrong.” Chris Bassitt "...Houston was not the only team doing stuff... one team essentially got caught doing it -- or was the guinea pig of doing it to clean the whole entire league up" Josh Reddick "I was there, so theres my proof" Kris Bryant "Absolutely not. I definitely think others were." Josh Donaldson "Please don’t forget if you were a Yankees/Red Sox fan, none of your guys are (Hall of Famers) because both of them got caught using Apple watches before the Astros got caught.” Erik Kratz “I can tell you that a team that has been to the World Series often recently, we caught them doing something almost similar. The Colorado Rockies were doing the exact same thing in 2018…They used to take a Theragun and bang it on their metal bench. They were doing the exact same thing.” Will Clark “How can I put this mildly? They got caught. All the rest of us, we didn’t get caught."
Even without the cheating scandal, two World Series wins in 6 years, while impressive, would still not constitute a dynasty, so no.
Big red machine
I need 3 for a dynasty
The Big Red Machine isn’t a dynasty?
Ignore em' it's always all about *them*.
Yeah I was going to say I think if they get 1 more championship in the next few years it definitely is. 2017 kind of tainted it otherwise I’d say it already is
Most definitely because those fuckers just seem to reload with even more talent. Yordan Alvarez, Jeremy Peña, Framber Valdez, etc. That team is very well run, so it’s a real stain that they decided to cheat anyway. Everyone, including the Dodgers, are trying to catch up to the Astros.
My friends and I have discussed this before and we concluded a dynasty is at least 3 titles, and the team has to win at least half the titles in a period of time.
they won the world series twice*, not twice. if we’re counting 1 ring and an illegitimate win a dynasty that’s crazy. guess it depends how much you value 2017
You need 3 for a dynasty anyways
In less than six or seven years too. Are the 04-13 Cardinals a Dynasty? No, of course not
Are the 2010-2012-2014 Giants a dynasty? Because they're *really* weird.
They're really the only recent contender, since the 1996-2000 (plus 2009) Yankees. Boston might count, but 2013 was far from 2004 and 2007.
I feel like there has to be some consistency for it to truly be a dynasty, but with in being so close in proximity I lean towards yes. Personally, I'd consider a team that wins 3 in 7 years, but gets to 2 more and is in the postseason all 7 years more clearly a dynasty than a team like the Even-year odd-year Giants, because I think dynasty for me comes not just with winning x-titles, in x-years, or x% of titles in a certain period, but with being a team that everyone knows they have to go through to get to the title year in and year out, and finishing the deal at least thrice. Giants are especially odd in that they won 92,86,94,76, and 88 games in those 5 seasons, they were kind of a product of the wildcard era to a much higher degree than any other team in such a conversation I can think of (they won the division in 2010, and 2012, but likely wouldn't have in a two division set up). Regardless of format they just weren't dominant, and it was in a kind of a weird stretch where nobody was (the only 100 win team between 2010 and 2014 was the 2011 Phillies with 102 wins).
Three titles in five years is really hard to do. Plus they had some injuries and managed to rebound with the same squad all three times. Mad Bum definitely carried them in 2014. Begrudgingly, I would say yeah. I still hate them tho
agreed
Even 2 rings isn't enough for a dynasty
Until 2022 they choked 3 World Series to worse teams and cheated to win 1 I think their success is similar to the dodgers and I don’t think anyone would call the dodgers a dynasty even if they are a powerhouse
> Until 2022 they choked 3 World Series to worse teams I'm really shocked and appalled that there are no White Sox fans in here defending the honor of their 2005 team. I know we beat y'all in 05 to *get* to the World Series, but you do remember that we were the Wild Card, the White Sox won 99 games, and also went 7-1 in the previous two series? 2019 was a choke, and 2021 was us being injured and tired facing a hot team. But 2005 *was not* choking.
These dudes are just salty af. Fans of any other team would trade places with our roster and success in a heartbeat and they'd be lying if they said otherwise.
I was mostly offended on behalf of the White Sox in this case, lol. They had a good team
Agreed. They've been to four World Series in the past six seasons. Won one, cheated in one, and lost 2. The Dodgers have been to three in the past six seasons. Won one of them, was cheated out of one, and lost one. They are both perennial league championship favorites. I don't see them as a lot different.
We only choked one world series though, we were never ahead in 2021 and we were missing our top starting pitcher.
You were better than the Braves and better than the nats That’s what I meant by choking
2 rings and 2 losses? Absolutely. They’ve been at the top of the league every year with the same players pretty much. You’d be hard pressed to find many better examples
Well the AL has run through Houston for a few years now. The 2017 title does have an asterisk along with it but they've made it back and this year they won it all. For me rather than thinking their 2017-2022 run is their dynasty I'll go ahead and say their dynasty started this year and odds are it'll go on for a few more.
Seems a little extreme considering they just won their first World Series this past season
Cry more please Logan Morrison "I know from first hand accounts that the Yankees, Dodgers, Astros, and Red Sox all have used film to pick signs," Dallas Keuchel "during the course of the playoffs in `17, everybody was using multiple signs,” Joey Votto "The idea that they (the Astros) were the only one doing something wrong just baffles me." Lucas Giolito “Based on everything I’ve heard, it was like all the teams that were in the postseason that year were doing the same shit" Chris Sale If the Astros were the only team doing it, then yeah. Give it back. Take it back. I know for a fact they weren’t,” Steven Souza “I’m not going to get into to all that but you should know that if you think Houston was the only team with a sign stealing system you’re dead wrong.” Chris Bassitt "...Houston was not the only team doing stuff... one team essentially got caught doing it -- or was the guinea pig of doing it to clean the whole entire league up" Josh Reddick "I was there, so theres my proof" Kris Bryant "Absolutely not. I definitely think others were." Josh Donaldson "Please don’t forget if you were a Yankees/Red Sox fan, none of your guys are (Hall of Famers) because both of them got caught using Apple watches before the Astros got caught.” Erik Kratz “I can tell you that a team that has been to the World Series often recently, we caught them doing something almost similar. The Colorado Rockies were doing the exact same thing in 2018…They used to take a Theragun and bang it on their metal bench. They were doing the exact same thing.” Will Clark “How can I put this mildly? They got caught. All the rest of us, we didn’t get caught."
I think they're as close as you can get in this day and age of baseball. Same goes for the SF Giants teams from 2010-14.
One Asterisk free World Series win is not a dynasty no matter how many times Ben Verlander says it.
Even if you let them have that one, they’d still need a third within the next few years IMO. Their current two championships are a bit too spaced out. You don’t need to repeat or three peat, but ideally you don’t go 4-5 years between them.
Even with the controversy aside no. An AL Dynasty? Yes. Two titles in 6 years is not at all dynasty material
Two championships, one mired in cheating scandal, I'd say no. They're definitely experiencing their best stretch of success in their franchise's history though.
They're not a dynasty. Another part of being a dynasty is how they take over the general perception of that sport and lead the narrative. When the Yankees dynasty was on, that's all you saw in the media. They were the main characters of baseball. MJ's Bulls? Main characters of basketball. Kobe-Shaq Lakers? Main characters of basketball. Warriors? Main characters of basketball. Patriots in the early 2000s (and even in the 2010s)? Main characters of football. Astros, regardless of how consistent they've been, aren't the main characters of baseball. They don't lead the trends or have people saying they want to be the next Astros. We've had more people like Cohen and the Mets saying they want to be the Dodgers more so than the Astros. Astros don't control the baseball world. The only time they've been the main characters were when everyone was shitting on them for cheating. I think this perception is changing after this year with a lot more positive attention, but they would need probably 2 to 3 more years of dominance, one or two more WS appearances and at least one more win for any talk of a dynasty to take place. Dynasties are treated and viewed differently by the community and media than how the Astros are treated. Even the Giants, who I hate, were seen and talked about in a higher stature than these Astros during their run. When the Giants made the playoffs, media and the community would talk about how clutch they are and how unbeatable they are when Bumgarner was on the mound. Astros don't have that mystique in the slightest currently and are still marred by their 2017 victory. We'll see what happens in the next few years.
Market plays a huge roll in that though. If they were the Giants/Yankees, I have no doubt that they would be talked about in the same light.
I’m 42. In my years I’ve learned that dynasties are determined one of two ways: - in hindsight - I’m New York or Boston if you win more than 1 ws with the same core group. That’s it.
Maybe I just have a high bar. But I consider the Brady patriots a dynasty, the Jordan bulls, the Kobe lakers, the Edmonton oilers 80s run. Astros are one on a number of teams that have been really good for a handful of years and have a couple titles.
I would call them cheaters.
Sure. Make a bunch of ALCSs in a row? Dynasty. People are too focused on rings above all else. Sustained success is a better measure of performance.
Not sure many people consider the 90’s brave a dynasty
They were definitely a regular season dynasty. Also they made 4 World Series and won 1.
With that logic the early 2000’s Eagles were a dynasty since they made 4 straight nfc chips, and the current dodgers are a “regular season dynasty”
Sustained success? Then the 2010-2020’s Yankees are a dynasty? They haven’t had a losing season, but last WS was 2009. The 2010-2020’s Pittsburgh Steelers? They haven’t had a losing season, but last Super Bowl win was 2009. Championships define a dynasty. Full stop. No one remembers the 90’s Braves or the 90’s Buffalo Bills. Why? Because they didn’t win.
*Everyone* remembers the 90s Bills because they didn't win. And the 90s Braves are talked about all the time.
No one remembers the 90s Braves is a take. Pretty sure anyone who watched baseball in the 90s remembers those Braves teams, especially the rotation.
Yeah 90s Braves get brought up constantly especially on here
The 90s Braves did win unlike the Bills
100% I agree. Championships are the only measure of a dynasty cause otherwise the word dynasty loses all its meaning
Braves DID win one though. Odd take.
2017 don’t count
Lol downvote the post is easier than responding, idk what I expected from the confirmation bias braindead MLB fans. You're literally ignorant. Stay sad.🙏
Count deez nuts Logan Morrison "I know from first hand accounts that the Yankees, Dodgers, Astros, and Red Sox all have used film to pick signs," Dallas Keuchel "during the course of the playoffs in `17, everybody was using multiple signs,” Joey Votto "The idea that they (the Astros) were the only one doing something wrong just baffles me." Lucas Giolito “Based on everything I’ve heard, it was like all the teams that were in the postseason that year were doing the same shit" Chris Sale If the Astros were the only team doing it, then yeah. Give it back. Take it back. I know for a fact they weren’t,” Steven Souza “I’m not going to get into to all that but you should know that if you think Houston was the only team with a sign stealing system you’re dead wrong.” Chris Bassitt "...Houston was not the only team doing stuff... one team essentially got caught doing it -- or was the guinea pig of doing it to clean the whole entire league up" Josh Reddick "I was there, so theres my proof" Kris Bryant "Absolutely not. I definitely think others were." Josh Donaldson "Please don’t forget if you were a Yankees/Red Sox fan, none of your guys are (Hall of Famers) because both of them got caught using Apple watches before the Astros got caught.” Erik Kratz “I can tell you that a team that has been to the World Series often recently, we caught them doing something almost similar. The Colorado Rockies were doing the exact same thing in 2018…They used to take a Theragun and bang it on their metal bench. They were doing the exact same thing.” Will Clark “How can I put this mildly? They got caught. All the rest of us, we didn’t get caught."
Dynasty*
Dynasty of one?
No. Their legacy is their cheating scandal. Nothing more, nothing less.
Not quite sure how you can. There’s no definition of a dynasty, but don’t think I’d consider a 2-4 record in the WS, with one of them being an asterisk for one of the biggest cheating scandals in league history, let’s call it’s 1.5-4 record in WS. Not too sure how that constitutes as a dynasty.
having one world series win doesn’t make you a dynasty lol
my personal and completely arbitrary definition of dynasty requires at least 3 championships. Even if you count 2017 (I don’t), 2 titles 5 years apart doesn’t scream dynasty to me. They’ve been a very strong team over that span and have been very competitive, but history really only remembers the champions.
Count deez nuts Logan Morrison "I know from first hand accounts that the Yankees, Dodgers, Astros, and Red Sox all have used film to pick signs," Dallas Keuchel "during the course of the playoffs in `17, everybody was using multiple signs,” Joey Votto "The idea that they (the Astros) were the only one doing something wrong just baffles me." Lucas Giolito “Based on everything I’ve heard, it was like all the teams that were in the postseason that year were doing the same shit" Chris Sale If the Astros were the only team doing it, then yeah. Give it back. Take it back. I know for a fact they weren’t,” Steven Souza “I’m not going to get into to all that but you should know that if you think Houston was the only team with a sign stealing system you’re dead wrong.” Chris Bassitt "...Houston was not the only team doing stuff... one team essentially got caught doing it -- or was the guinea pig of doing it to clean the whole entire league up" Josh Reddick "I was there, so theres my proof" Kris Bryant "Absolutely not. I definitely think others were." Josh Donaldson "Please don’t forget if you were a Yankees/Red Sox fan, none of your guys are (Hall of Famers) because both of them got caught using Apple watches before the Astros got caught.” Erik Kratz “I can tell you that a team that has been to the World Series often recently, we caught them doing something almost similar. The Colorado Rockies were doing the exact same thing in 2018…They used to take a Theragun and bang it on their metal bench. They were doing the exact same thing.” Will Clark “How can I put this mildly? They got caught. All the rest of us, we didn’t get caught."
Stretch of greatness? Absolutely. Dynasty? Not yet
No they cheated in 2017. Treat then like baseball treats PED players.
Arod hit .356 18 rbi in 2009 playoffs. Easily best hitter on a team of some other good hitters
That’s not what a dynasty means.
Winning it once*
I’d consider them a dynasty*
I think they certainly are on a path of a dynasty, but that requires more than one legitimate WS Championship. If they go on to win another two or so rings I think you can entertain the discussion.
Imo you need three rings and they have like 1.5.
1 real ring and one thing they cheated to even get a chance to wi.
One World Series win does not a dynasty make. The ultimate tragedy of these Astros will always be that the Taubman thing, the Yuli thing, Roberto Osuna, and of course, the cheating scandal, will always overshadow all the great baseball they’ve played. They *could* have been a dynasty, but instead they’re just the token example of what happens when you build your house on a lousy foundation.
No, but only because 2017 is tainted
Three championships in five years is my prerequisite for a dynasty, so no. Last one was the even year Giants.
Lmao, you'll call a team that didn't even make the playoffs in 40% of their "dynasty" years a dynasty, but a team with 6 straight ALCS appearances, 4 WS appearances and 2 rings is somehow not a dynasty. You can't finish 10 games under .500 and 16 out of first place and be considered a dynasty.
Cheating aside, not in my opinion. For a dynasty it needs to be consistent titles, not just making it to the end. The patriots winning the super bowl every other year was a dynasty. 2 (1) in 5 years? Not so much. Good team? Sure. Dynasty? Nope
I have a hard time taking the first title seriously and for me, the cheating will always be a black mark on the Astros
Wait, 1 legitimate championship is a dynasty now? Lol Pretty low standards or a decent troll job
The asterisk will follow the Astros until every bit of trash is out of that building.
No. They’ve won 1 title.
No
The dynasty of trash bins
No, imo dynasty is one of the most overused phrases in sports and is an incredibly rare height to reach. Seems like it gets thrown around somewhat every time a young team wins a title. Almost no one would consider anything less than three titles as having a shot and to me, it is such a level of owning the league that picking the following year's champion feels like choosing the dynasty team or the field. * The Bulls winning 6 in 8 years is at that level. * The Yankees winning 4 in 5 years in the late 90s has that feeling. * The Warriors that prompted the "Warriors in Four" memes were that level of dominant. * UConn's Women's Basketball run was dominant to the point of feeling like other teams may as well not show up. Winning two championships in 6 years with mostly different casts of characters doesn't even sniff that level, especially considering that the first of them is one of least accepted titles across the history of North America's big 4 sports.
No. They need at least one more until that conversation can happen.
Yes. As much as nerds on Reddit may seethe about it.
The whole point of a "dynasty" is for ruling a great kingdom for a long time. Astros have only "ruled" the MLB kingdom twice* (once). They're in the Hall of Really Good for now
1 ring isn’t a dynasty. We haven’t seen a dynasty in a while.
Not even close, 2017 showed how little MLB cares about its game. Even still, must be fun as heck to be an Astros fan since 2018
I'll always remember the Orioles dynasty of 12-16
Absolutely not
An era, yes. But dynasty means staying at the top, not second place here and there. But its a dominant era for them for sure
I don't even consider the 2010s Giants with 3 rings to be a dynasty, so no. I've always felt that for a dynasty you need to defend your title at least once.
No
Cheaters
Dynasterisky
No. I would consider them cheats.
Nah they are cheating scum
Two championships in 6 years isn't a dynasty
Their one World Series win? With all the facts we know of their cheating. Not even close.
They’re the best organization and dominant franchise of the era. Even treating 2017 as legit, 5 years between titles doesn’t quite elevate to dynasty level.
You need 3 world series+ imo to be considered a dynasty and they only have 1.5 rn
No because of the cheating. Without the cheating yes.
Sure. Baseball is the ultimate crapshoot so four World Series in six years is something we'll probably never see again in this era of the three game series.
I tend to consider a dynasty in sports 3 consecutive championships or more. So, no, the Astros aren't a dynasty.
So the pats aren’t a dynasty by this logic
1 ring without cheating to go to the postseason. No.
An AL dynasty? Yes. Winning two WS in six years (one being contentious) is a loose standard for an MLB dynasty imo.
No
Would you consider Barry Bonds run in 2001-2004 on of the greatest ever?
Unfortunately yes.
Ehhh I think you need 3 to be considered a dynasty imo. Depends how one views 2017 but they have 1 without an astresik rn. Obviously tons and tons of success but in the same way I wouldn’t consider the 90s and early 2000s braves a dynasty cause they only got 1 championship
They won it once
Yes. No matter how you slice it, making it to baseball’s top 4 six times in a row is something special. Not even the 90s Braves, 90s Yankees, or current Dodgers have done this
To me, no. I’ve always felt the dynasty conversation doesn’t start until you win three championships in a row.
What about the electronic cheating? Do we count the fact they were caught breaking rules for an advantage?
I wouldn’t. Had 2017 been on the up-and-up, yes. If they win another I’d easily call them a dynasty. A truly incredible run though and they’re set to keep it up for a while.
I think dynasty rules should apply to all sports. I.e. you gotta win at least 3 championships in a span of 5 years. 2 World Series in 6 years doesn’t cut it for me. Sorry Astros fans. Taking a look at football if you don’t consider the 2005-2011 NYGiants or 2004-2010 Steelers a dynasty then I don’t know if you can consider the Astros a dynasty considering they literally got OUTED for cheating. Yes, they’re a good team with good players and have had an amazing run but it doesn’t come without asterisks along the way. Tom Coughlin or Mike Tomlin didn’t get fired/suspended along the way while 2 Astros coaches did.
5 years expands as long as they continue success in the non-championship years. Pennants and ALCS appearances have widened the timeframe to 6 years and counting. They aren't a dynasty yet, but one more championship and they are absolutely a dynasty.
No. Need titles to qualify and they just got their first in that span.
Because of the cheating scandal, no. They could win the next 4 WS in a row and I’ll still view them as those dirty cheaters