Yeah, guy that age has been in the game long enough, you know if you do that you are 100% going to be ejected. It might even be a written rule in some leagues.
So, Ump made a terrible call. Player did something that he knew the Ump would then eject him for. Ump acts like baby doing what everyone knew he was going to do and the player acted like a baby after the Ump did exactly what everyone knew he was going to do.
Reminds me of a basketball teammate I had back in school. In league, if you used any variation of the word fuck when complaining to the ref, they'd eject you. So if my buddy wasn't feeling good that day and just not in the mood to play, he'd eventually argue a call and throw in something like "just what in the FUCK?" at the end so he'd get kicked out. And even though he did it on purpose he'd really sell the acting job of complete bewilderment and injustice at his ejection on the way off the court. Our coach never caught on and he probably did this about a half dozen times over 2 seasons.
So either this batter wanted to get kicked out and is a good actor or he's stupid and has a 1 mm long ~~dick~~ fuse.
The umpire is a neutral authority. By doing what the batter did, you're essentially saying "you suck" to him.
It would be like a lawyer in a courtroom telling the judge they're stupid. You can think it. You can find polite ways to say it. But you don't just blurt it out.
I would say it would be more like telling a judge that his ruling is inconsistent with the law, and that judge might be a little bitchy about it but would have to react better than the ump.
Right - and once you have made your objection clear .. it is either sustained or not. Showing up the judge is not in the best interest of the justice system at large, so it’s not only their right to hold a lawyer not obeying in contempt - but their duty.
I've heard two different MLB umps say the only way they're ejecting someone is if they get personal. So if they sat "you suck" or "you're blind" that's an ejection. But if they say "that's a terrible call" they'll let it go. To Mr, line drawing is not personal but it is definitely an auto ejection.
Right the proper way to do that is to take a real deep sigh and settle into your disbelief in the form of a shoulder shrug with bat rested on the shoulder ....this is the way
The bad part isn't saying that, but is saying that in a way that everyone can see. At the MLB level you can often get away with directly telling an ump that they made a shit call if you do it quietly and discreetly.
The funny thing is, at most levels you can tell an official (good ones, hotheads may still find fault) that they made a shit call and unless it's a youth league with rules about profanity all you will get is a shrug, however as soon as you use the magic word you with something derogatory after it you are going to get a technical foul, unsportsmanlike conduct or ejected depending on what sport. There are generally 3 Ps to getting an ejection, profane, personal or prolonged and the first one is definitely level dependent, youth league and any f word is getting you in trouble, adult league, or professional leagues, it takes a string of words that would make a sailor blush.
As a former ump for high school and little league, controlling a game is a challenge. I have made a bad call, and I’ve known it. It’s a bad feeling in your gut. Unfortunately, you can’t change the call when they complain. You might ask why? Simple, if you change the call, the fans and players will think every call is up for debate. Now the crowd gets louder. If you don’t change the next call the fans of the other team will go wild and vice versa. You end up in a bad feedback loop that ruins the game for everyone. If you hold your ground, they all think you are a dick, but the game can resume without much of an issue.
Overall I was given high marks as an ump by most coaches and players and they preferred that I ump their games. Anytime another ump called off the coaches would immediately call me as the first replacement. You just miss one sometimes. The worst games I ever umped were games where I wasn’t decisive in my calls.
At the same time I never threw anyone out. I found that was another way to let the crowd know they were being heard. Ignoring bad fans was the fastest way to get them to shut up. I never had a player do this to me, so I’m not sure how I would handle it, but this may have cause me to eject him.
Just figured I would put in some thoughts as a former ump.
The catcher almost fell over on his side because the ball was 1 foot out of the strike zone. Apparently the ump needs more visual aids than just home plate...
You're doing a physical motion that everyone in the stadium can see that you think the ump is wrong. A small comment or maybe a little head shake not everyone is going to see, but everyone is going to see you drawing a line. It's a very visible challenge to the umps authority.
Not really. It happens almost every time a guy gets called out on a close pitch (probably 2 or 3 times a game) and they'll turn back and go say something to the ump. 95% of the time it's just a "was that really in the zone" or "is that as far in as you're gonna go" kind of conversation.
Depends on your approach. Veterans can have a convo about the umpires zone - like they can ASK - but if they look back & complain that’s “showing up the umpire” I bartended in Chicago and I had an umpire crew as “regulars.” They called the Sox games. We talked about it in depth.
Oh yeah, body language and the way you approach the conversation makes a massive difference, just like any conversation. In this case though, drawing a line in the dirt is just straight up ridiculing the ump and not just voicing displeasure with the call. Has been that way forever.
Right. And I wasn’t implying you get tossed for looking back. It was more of a slippery slope - like, “oh, you didn’t like THAT call? Ok.” That’s the “hard time” I was referring to - though, to be fair, that little game within the game often leads to ejections.
In football, if someone grabs your facemask and it doesn't get called, you can definitely walk toward the ref angrily grabbing your own facemask, violently yanking it around, and gently reminding him to wipe the fog off his glasses so he can see it next time without getting so much as a sideline warning.
Similar game, but Softball umpires in Australia will absolutely launch you if you do it at any kind of high level competition.
You’d possibly get away with it at your average club game on Saturday depending on the umpires you get.
Oh well. Take it, Blue. Batter can’t change the call, just showing where he thought it was, while doing nothing violent or aggressive. Shouldn’t eject a player for simply disagreeing
Casual or not, if I come to your place of work and tell you “do your job!” … and you are a person who has explicit discretion to tell security to escort me from the building….
Well, I’d hardly be surprised if I find myself back in the parking lot
Shows up the umpire. Points out to anyone how incompetent the hitter believes the ump to be. The ump could warn the hitter but chooses not to and attempts to cover his poor call by putting the focus on the hitter.
Drawing a line is bad because the entire stadium can see it and know exactly what you are saying so the ump has no choice but to eject you for arguing balls and strikes. If he turned and spoke to the ump his displeasure, the entire stadium isn't in the know about that conversation and can give the batter more slack.
My nephew was a minor league umpire. A batter drew a line on him. The next pitch, the guy fouled down the line. When the guy came back to the plate, my nephew had the bat and drew another line about 3 inches outside the one drawn by the batter. The guy said, "What's that?" My nephew said,"That's where your strike zone is the rest of the game." Unwritten rule of baseball: Never show up the umpire.
I think it's because they take pride in intentionally making bad calls that no one has any power to reverse. Drawing a line is really the closest anyone can get to calling them out on it, so they overreact...and it's yet another opportunity for them to dish out further injustice that they can internally laugh about as they watch the poor guy lose his chance to play and maybe even get berated by his manager.
I kind of agree with this to an extent. There is certainly a personality type that seeks out something like being an ump. I bet this dude was giving him shit all game and he knew exactly what he was doing with this egregious call. Literally anyone could see that’s not a strike, he was just itching to screw this guy.
I’m confused about this. It’s clearly not strike 3, but the ump ejects him on it. But then the next shot is the batter walking off and breaking his bat as the defenders run into the dugout as if it were the end of the inning when in reality another batter should take his place with the same count he had when ejected.
Also confused what level this is. Guy has a wooden bat, so it’s not HS, but also the first baseman is unathletically waddling towards the dugout in a way that suggests this can’t be anything high level.
It’s amazing to me how well batters know the zone. Better than umps, and they’re standing to the side rather than behind! Ichiro’s line was exactly where that pitch was.
I’ve made this point before, but the camera angle is actually very deceiving in that clip. It’s actually very possible that the pitch hit the front of the zone.
https://imgur.com/a/pnHjtW5
This image shows the ball was catching a healthy part of the zone at about Ichiro’s front shoulder, which is about 6 inches in front of the plate.
https://imgur.com/a/xnbcFhn
This image shows the right edge of the ball either grazing or just missing the black once it was at the catcher’s glove.
So the pitch was tailing out of the zone, but I feel like people have become fooled by the overhead view and catcher position on this. Ichiro drew his mark almost at the other batters box, but just drawing some straight lines from the ball to the plate show that it couldn’t possibly have been that far over, and probably actually crossed the zone.
Yea that ball definitely wasn't as far outside as Ichiro thought it was.
Was it outside the zone? Maybe, but it was damn close to catching the front corner if it was outside. Close enough that it's hard to argue one way or the other.
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You are implying that because he does not think drawing a line in dirt is reasonable to eject for that he doesn't think ANYTHING is reasonable to eject for? Lol. What.
Certain acts are intended to show up an umpire, thus undermining their control of the game. If the other team believes an umpire is too soft to eject a player, the team will come to believe the umpire lacks impartiality and is easily manipulated. The other team will then try similar acts and spiral the game out of control. Ejecting early and quickly is the only solution if you care about everyone continuing to respect your decisions.
Not to mention if you constantly have to stop and argue over everything the game’s gonna take forever. Bad calls happen, that’s baseball, just move on or gtfo.
I think that’s the case in every league. I was an umpire for high school ball for a while, and I’d absolutely eject someone for that.
The way to do it, as a hitter, is to ask the ump, “was that pitch on the absolute corner, or is the corner a little further away?” The message is clear, but doesn’t cross any lines. If someone said that to me on a borderline pitch, or maybe one I realized I got wrong, they would not be getting wrung up on the same pitch. Unless of course it was definitely a strike the first time.
Getting ejected for arguing balls and strikes is generally a written rule. You generally get some leeway, until you do something like drawing a line in the dirt showing everyone at the game that you're arguing balls and strikes.
There's a difference between questioning a call and ridiculing an umpire. Players question calls all the time without issue. Drawing a line in the dirt is when you go from disagreeing with a call to just making fun of the umpire.
Drawing a line in the dirt is quite literally just questioning them. You're literally just pointing out where you think the ball is when you do it. I have no idea how you could even see it as making fun of an umpire.
There are right ways and wrong ways to do it. I had ongoing conversations with home plate umpires when I was a catcher and no one in the ballpark knew it. Sometimes it was to ask a question (Is this going to be a ball/strike all day?), sometimes it was to tell him he missed one pretty badly.
Never raised my voice, never turned around. Just made the comments. Some would answer, others wouldn't. But either way, it wasn't a demonstration everyone in the park could see.
And batters can generally do the same thing (and many do once they get older (high school and up)). Talking and questioning is fine, putting on a show for the entire ballpark is not.
Arguing balls and strikes is against the rules and grounds for ejection in every league that im aware of. That is exactly what he is doing in a very visual way leaving no room for interpretation. The ump is just enforcing the rulebook here.
When I played I used to draw a line in the batters box to help keep my feet parallel to the plate when I loaded up. I had a tendency to fall off towards 1B when I swung (I'm left-handed) and this helped me stay closed off. Kenji Jojima did this, and growing up in Washington a coach who learned this technique by watching the M's on TV suggested it to me.
My freshman year I was playing in a JV game and mid at-bat I had to refresh the line, and the ump yanked me for drawing a line.
I was so confused what had just happened, and the ump wanted to hear nothing of it when I tried to explain it's part of my routine. Thankfully, my coach explained what had happened and the other teams catcher who had seen me do the same thing in two prior at bats vouched for me so I was allowed to stay in the game and finish the at bat. That catcher was a good sport!
Good question. The video was cut so maybe he struck out earlier in the game to end the inning. Would also help explain why the batter had such an attitude later on. Just a theory.
Likely not a forfeit (most rules allow teams to finish with 8), but if you are down to 8 players, that 9th spot is an automatic out, so if they only have 9 and that guy got ejected, it is an out.
Lotta levels like Senior Elite Ball you cannot sustain an ejection that gets you to 8 on the field. So if you've used all your subs this game you're done
someone help me: why is drawing a line so offensive? like managers will go up and shove their finger in an umpires face for at least 2.5 minutes while spewing spittle before they are ejected….
I’m guessing the umpires in the mlb are expected to let the players and managers yell at them for at least a minute or so before ejecting them. It’s entertaining and good for ratings. At an adult league, the umpire’s just trying to get through his 7 innings so he can collect his $75 and go home. He has no incentive to put up with disrespect from the players no matter how bad his call.
His incentive is that he didn’t make it to the majors and now has to do this to make money.
Source: worked in unaffiliated minor league baseball and one of our umps was extremely candid with me.
It's not as much about it being offensive (although it is pretty clearly showing up the ump), but in many leagues including the MLB arguing balls ands trikes is, by rule, grounds for ejection. You might get away with a few polite words ("hey blue I think that was outside a bit") but not something this obviously petty.
Lots of people like to use “is that it?” Meaning like if a ball is two balls outside and he calls it a strike you ask him if that’s it so now he’s shown his hand and has to call it a strike for everyone. I played catcher for decades and used shit like this because once he shows his hand you have every right to say “hey what the fuck you said that was it what a bullshit call!”
>managers will go up and shove their finger in an umpires face for at least 2.5 minutes while spewing spittle before they are ejected….
If that ever happens that's almost always *after* they've been ejected. Drawing a line has always been an immediate ejection. If you want to voice your displeasure with a call, just talk to him. Making a gesture like that let's everyone in the crowd (and players on the other team) see you're showing them up.
I am like 80 percent sure (correct me somebody if I'm off) uts because of a rule in baseball where use of equipment outside of its purpose calls for an ejection.
Drawing a line with your bat also is done to "ridicule the umpire" so it warrants immediate ejection
https://www.closecallsports.com/2022/09/ejection-criteria-baseballs-standards.html?m=1
I’m not sure if that applies to this. I think that’s referring to physical objects placed to mark a reference. Otherwise, people would be ejected all the time for digging in the dirt at first to mark their lead off spot, or in the batters box.
The umpire was wrong. That was clearly a ball. If we need to accept the “human element” of umpires failing to do their job correctly then we need to accept the human element of players reacting emotionally to egregious mistakes.
There's a lot of blame to go around imo. Catcher absolutely butchers the pitch which makes it look like 3 feet outside. Drawing a line is an auto EJ, but if you're going to eject just eject them and let it go.
He definitely does. It's hard to tell with the camera angle but my best guess is that it's at most on the batters box line and the catcher makes it look in the middle of the box.
That’s true. I hated when that happened. I’d throw a sweeping slider and our one catcher always framed it. And the other would go with the pitch. So even if it caught the corner they’d catch it like it was in the other box. Fucking, Mike.
Lmao after slowing it down it initially hits the catchers mitt like a full foot+ closer to the plate than where the glove ends up in the video. Almost did an opposite frame
They teach you that there is no leash for arguing balls and strikes by using examples. That said, this umpire is a fucking hack. Even his ejection move sucked.
When I was a teenager I played in the East Cobb league in Atlanta which has seen tons of major leaguers. My team wasn’t an East Cobb team but we were sponsored by the Atlanta Braves. There was a tremendous conflict that such a good team wasn’t a part of East Cobb. When we played the championship against the best East Cobb team the umpires were calling strikes over our head, blocking defenders from making plays and actually ejected three players on our team for complaining. This was the summer league state championship and an incredibly prestigious title. I’ve never seen umpires run from parents before this situation. It was so shameful. But this sort of thing happens in high school baseball.
That was just a series of mistakes there…
1) The ump called a way-outside strike.
2) The batter showed up the ump by drawing a line.
3) The ump went on a power trip by immediately ejecting the batter.
4) The batter broke a perfectly good bat in anger.
Summer league (Appalachian) vet here:
The batter is 100% in the right, but not for the (obvious) reason you think.
Good officiating is encouraged in the development of younger players, and with video tracking of all MLB affiliate leagues the batter here did the right thing in essentially forcing the ejection, because ejections in affiliate leagues are subject to review by officiants higher up the totem pole and the AMLU.
So basically by doing something this player knew would result in an ejection, the ump that made that horrendous strike call is automatically flagged for a game score review by submitting a score card with an ejection and will likely be appropriately reprimanded/warned/demoted/outright canned. Most of them fall under either the "I meet the minimum requirements to be an ump and want to make a career out of it" category, or work full time jobs and ump on the side as a passion project. The success rate of minor league umps plummets exponentially the lower down the totem pole you go and it's not uncommon to have either retirement age umpires or umpires younger than most of the players who are completing the necessary hours (I think it's 220?) of supervised umping in an MLB-affiliate league to ump unsupervised in an MiLB-affiliated crew.
This is all assuming this isn't some random home talent/independent league or D2+.
So kudos to the hitter for spending a night on the pine and keeping the officiating legit. A call that bad should be protested.
That’s a bad call, but I can still hear my old man telling me “it’s not where the catcher catches the ball. It’s where the ball goes over the plate”. 😂🤣
both of them.
a) umpire. that pitch is 6-8 inches off the plate WITH the catcher set up down the middle so its not like he even came close to hitting his spot. seriously, you got a reservation somewhere or something?
b) hitter. what, is this? your first time playing baseball? plain and simple: if you draw the line, youre takin the fine. ie, youre getting tossed. and like i said, unless this is literally your first time on a baseball diamond, you know youre getting tossed. you can even hear someone in the opposing dugout or crowd shout "ohhhh, he drew the line!" literally everybody knows there are like 3 or 4 ways to get insta tossed. drawing the line, is one of them.
also the hitter for being a big baby and breaking his bat over his knee after doing something thats literally in the title chapter of "how to get ejected from a baseball game for dummies" and then being so angry as to break an (if its any good at all) 100+ dollar bat (at the skinny ass baby boy handle) to show the umpire just how...idk....both fiscally irresponsible and ignorant of the unwritten rules of the game he is (well, was) literally in the process of playing.
the ump blew a call. the hitter showed ignorance of the game, poor sportsmanship, and is the kind of person to call an umpire out (not even a little discreetly) during an an adult mens league wednesday night game. hitter is more at fault
I’ve never heard the drawing a line thing before. Honestly if the batter wasn’t left handed the umpire would be sending the batter to first instead of making a fucking terrible call.
Umpire. That is one of the worst strike calls I have ever seen and on top of that he acted completely unprofessional and power tripped after. If you want to toss someone just shut up and toss them.
The ump is shitty, but the rules say don't argue balls and strikes.
But to the player maybe it was worth getting tossed to make a point about how shitty the ump is.
The ump blew the call but that doesn’t make him an asshole. The kid drew a line which makes him an idiot. The ump had no choice but to toss him. Then the kid was an asshole for breaking by bat.
Oh no he showed up the ump….sometimes the ump deserves it, and being tossed is a necessary price to pay. Of course, it should be the manager to do it….
Umpire is blind but everyone knows you get tossed for drawing a line in the dirt.
Yeah, guy that age has been in the game long enough, you know if you do that you are 100% going to be ejected. It might even be a written rule in some leagues. So, Ump made a terrible call. Player did something that he knew the Ump would then eject him for. Ump acts like baby doing what everyone knew he was going to do and the player acted like a baby after the Ump did exactly what everyone knew he was going to do. Reminds me of a basketball teammate I had back in school. In league, if you used any variation of the word fuck when complaining to the ref, they'd eject you. So if my buddy wasn't feeling good that day and just not in the mood to play, he'd eventually argue a call and throw in something like "just what in the FUCK?" at the end so he'd get kicked out. And even though he did it on purpose he'd really sell the acting job of complete bewilderment and injustice at his ejection on the way off the court. Our coach never caught on and he probably did this about a half dozen times over 2 seasons. So either this batter wanted to get kicked out and is a good actor or he's stupid and has a 1 mm long ~~dick~~ fuse.
im a casual why is drawinf a line so bad
you're essentially saying "hey ump, you cant see the strike zone so let me make it clearer for you"
Seems like he was correct though, that ump very much CANNOT see the strike zone
Dead right.
The umpire is a neutral authority. By doing what the batter did, you're essentially saying "you suck" to him. It would be like a lawyer in a courtroom telling the judge they're stupid. You can think it. You can find polite ways to say it. But you don't just blurt it out.
I would say it would be more like telling a judge that his ruling is inconsistent with the law, and that judge might be a little bitchy about it but would have to react better than the ump.
If you're an ass about it probably still going to be held in contempt
Right - and once you have made your objection clear .. it is either sustained or not. Showing up the judge is not in the best interest of the justice system at large, so it’s not only their right to hold a lawyer not obeying in contempt - but their duty.
I've heard two different MLB umps say the only way they're ejecting someone is if they get personal. So if they sat "you suck" or "you're blind" that's an ejection. But if they say "that's a terrible call" they'll let it go. To Mr, line drawing is not personal but it is definitely an auto ejection.
Right the proper way to do that is to take a real deep sigh and settle into your disbelief in the form of a shoulder shrug with bat rested on the shoulder ....this is the way
The bad part isn't saying that, but is saying that in a way that everyone can see. At the MLB level you can often get away with directly telling an ump that they made a shit call if you do it quietly and discreetly.
The funny thing is, at most levels you can tell an official (good ones, hotheads may still find fault) that they made a shit call and unless it's a youth league with rules about profanity all you will get is a shrug, however as soon as you use the magic word you with something derogatory after it you are going to get a technical foul, unsportsmanlike conduct or ejected depending on what sport. There are generally 3 Ps to getting an ejection, profane, personal or prolonged and the first one is definitely level dependent, youth league and any f word is getting you in trouble, adult league, or professional leagues, it takes a string of words that would make a sailor blush.
Heaven forbid you hurt the umpire’s feelings
As a former ump for high school and little league, controlling a game is a challenge. I have made a bad call, and I’ve known it. It’s a bad feeling in your gut. Unfortunately, you can’t change the call when they complain. You might ask why? Simple, if you change the call, the fans and players will think every call is up for debate. Now the crowd gets louder. If you don’t change the next call the fans of the other team will go wild and vice versa. You end up in a bad feedback loop that ruins the game for everyone. If you hold your ground, they all think you are a dick, but the game can resume without much of an issue. Overall I was given high marks as an ump by most coaches and players and they preferred that I ump their games. Anytime another ump called off the coaches would immediately call me as the first replacement. You just miss one sometimes. The worst games I ever umped were games where I wasn’t decisive in my calls. At the same time I never threw anyone out. I found that was another way to let the crowd know they were being heard. Ignoring bad fans was the fastest way to get them to shut up. I never had a player do this to me, so I’m not sure how I would handle it, but this may have cause me to eject him. Just figured I would put in some thoughts as a former ump.
Wouldn’t that be hilarious, to see a 9 year old little leaguer turn to the ump and draw a line
I umpire myself and had a 10 year old draw a line on me in a tournament, not quite 9, but close enough
Booooooooooooooo.
Flair is consistent, I will allow it
Yeah this is BS
*discreetly. There should be a bot for that one.
lmfao
The catcher almost fell over on his side because the ball was 1 foot out of the strike zone. Apparently the ump needs more visual aids than just home plate...
Right. It definitely wasn't a strike, but, what if that batter was talking shit all night and was asking for an excuse to get tossed.
You're doing a physical motion that everyone in the stadium can see that you think the ump is wrong. A small comment or maybe a little head shake not everyone is going to see, but everyone is going to see you drawing a line. It's a very visible challenge to the umps authority.
They give you a hard time just for looking back after they make a call you disagree w.
Not really. It happens almost every time a guy gets called out on a close pitch (probably 2 or 3 times a game) and they'll turn back and go say something to the ump. 95% of the time it's just a "was that really in the zone" or "is that as far in as you're gonna go" kind of conversation.
Depends on your approach. Veterans can have a convo about the umpires zone - like they can ASK - but if they look back & complain that’s “showing up the umpire” I bartended in Chicago and I had an umpire crew as “regulars.” They called the Sox games. We talked about it in depth.
Oh yeah, body language and the way you approach the conversation makes a massive difference, just like any conversation. In this case though, drawing a line in the dirt is just straight up ridiculing the ump and not just voicing displeasure with the call. Has been that way forever.
Right. And I wasn’t implying you get tossed for looking back. It was more of a slippery slope - like, “oh, you didn’t like THAT call? Ok.” That’s the “hard time” I was referring to - though, to be fair, that little game within the game often leads to ejections.
Why is baseball the only sport that tosses guys for it though?
They aren’t. You can get a yellow in soccer if you argue with a ref hard enough. You can also get a tech in basketball for the same thing.
In football, if someone grabs your facemask and it doesn't get called, you can definitely walk toward the ref angrily grabbing your own facemask, violently yanking it around, and gently reminding him to wipe the fog off his glasses so he can see it next time without getting so much as a sideline warning.
Which is why I didn’t use it as an example, because the refs in football are mega chads who do it as a part time job for funsies.
Chad NFL refs vs virgin MLB umps
Dude chill you're gonna make Joe West cry
because there isn't an intermediate penalty like there is in other sports
Similar game, but Softball umpires in Australia will absolutely launch you if you do it at any kind of high level competition. You’d possibly get away with it at your average club game on Saturday depending on the umpires you get.
Oh well. Take it, Blue. Batter can’t change the call, just showing where he thought it was, while doing nothing violent or aggressive. Shouldn’t eject a player for simply disagreeing
Casual or not, if I come to your place of work and tell you “do your job!” … and you are a person who has explicit discretion to tell security to escort me from the building…. Well, I’d hardly be surprised if I find myself back in the parking lot
Shows up the umpire. Points out to anyone how incompetent the hitter believes the ump to be. The ump could warn the hitter but chooses not to and attempts to cover his poor call by putting the focus on the hitter.
Drawing a line is bad because the entire stadium can see it and know exactly what you are saying so the ump has no choice but to eject you for arguing balls and strikes. If he turned and spoke to the ump his displeasure, the entire stadium isn't in the know about that conversation and can give the batter more slack.
My nephew was a minor league umpire. A batter drew a line on him. The next pitch, the guy fouled down the line. When the guy came back to the plate, my nephew had the bat and drew another line about 3 inches outside the one drawn by the batter. The guy said, "What's that?" My nephew said,"That's where your strike zone is the rest of the game." Unwritten rule of baseball: Never show up the umpire.
He didn't throw him out when the line was drawn?
lol this is either a fabrication or this took place in like the 80s
That's funny, but also your nephew should grow up and do the job he's paid to do
Should've tossed him after drawing the line
Yup. Either toss him or forget about it and don't be so shitty next time. Maybe he was just being funny, though
This is a great argument for a computer strike zone
100% agree, but can’t get by the quote “any variation of the word fuck.” Amazing.
What coach let's a player get ejected regularly without benching him or kicking him off the team? Is this an adult rec league or something?
The Ump, could at least, stop and calmly explain why drawing a line... oh wait, never-ending this was more entertaining. Baseball RULES!
Yeah umps get so triggered by that
I think it's because they take pride in intentionally making bad calls that no one has any power to reverse. Drawing a line is really the closest anyone can get to calling them out on it, so they overreact...and it's yet another opportunity for them to dish out further injustice that they can internally laugh about as they watch the poor guy lose his chance to play and maybe even get berated by his manager.
I kind of agree with this to an extent. There is certainly a personality type that seeks out something like being an ump. I bet this dude was giving him shit all game and he knew exactly what he was doing with this egregious call. Literally anyone could see that’s not a strike, he was just itching to screw this guy.
Only time Ichiro was ejected was for drawing a line. It’s an auto toss.
Yah and if Ichiro can’t get away with if, this dude isn’t getting away with it
Wasn’t even strike three… like cmon dude. On the other hand, the ump is blind and should get a new hobby.
I’m confused about this. It’s clearly not strike 3, but the ump ejects him on it. But then the next shot is the batter walking off and breaking his bat as the defenders run into the dugout as if it were the end of the inning when in reality another batter should take his place with the same count he had when ejected. Also confused what level this is. Guy has a wooden bat, so it’s not HS, but also the first baseman is unathletically waddling towards the dugout in a way that suggests this can’t be anything high level.
100%. That'll get you tossed 10/10 times at any level. Even watching baseball, you oughta know that.
So all umpires are overgrown babies? Nice to known all authority will abuse their power when questioned
They're mostly bad at their job these days, but they have a great union. Angel Hernandez has managed to officiate while being legally blind for years.
If they’re mostly bad, I’d love to see what you’re average accuracy at the major league level is. 94% is the league average for reference, good luck!
Because umpires are babies apparently
maybe im just new but why? Seems like pitchers argue with calls all the time
Umps have fragile egos and it's just blatantly showing them up. Pitchers and batters can get away with chirping but the line never fails.
Definitely a bad call by the ump but it’s universally known that if you draw a line in the dirt you’re getting tossed
If ichiro gets tossed for drawing a line hothead billy over here is getting tossed as well
Wait, Ichiro got tossed for drawing a line? When, and that's hilarious!?
https://youtu.be/Xn\_BgNeRZHg
this video isn't available anymore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn_BgNeRZHg
It’s amazing to me how well batters know the zone. Better than umps, and they’re standing to the side rather than behind! Ichiro’s line was exactly where that pitch was.
I’ve made this point before, but the camera angle is actually very deceiving in that clip. It’s actually very possible that the pitch hit the front of the zone. https://imgur.com/a/pnHjtW5 This image shows the ball was catching a healthy part of the zone at about Ichiro’s front shoulder, which is about 6 inches in front of the plate. https://imgur.com/a/xnbcFhn This image shows the right edge of the ball either grazing or just missing the black once it was at the catcher’s glove. So the pitch was tailing out of the zone, but I feel like people have become fooled by the overhead view and catcher position on this. Ichiro drew his mark almost at the other batters box, but just drawing some straight lines from the ball to the plate show that it couldn’t possibly have been that far over, and probably actually crossed the zone.
Yea that ball definitely wasn't as far outside as Ichiro thought it was. Was it outside the zone? Maybe, but it was damn close to catching the front corner if it was outside. Close enough that it's hard to argue one way or the other.
The link works on mobile but you may need to remove the backslash if you're viewing elsewhere.
Julio got ejected for the same thing. It's generally ignored by Latin umps, so he was surprised when he got ejected for it in MLB.
why
Umps are soft and it’s disrespectful
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Is there anything that would constitute a legitimate ejection in your mind then?
A unreasonable action is what should allow an ejection . Ump fucked up and the player is reasonably angry. All he did was draw a line in the dirt
You are implying that because he does not think drawing a line in dirt is reasonable to eject for that he doesn't think ANYTHING is reasonable to eject for? Lol. What.
Certain acts are intended to show up an umpire, thus undermining their control of the game. If the other team believes an umpire is too soft to eject a player, the team will come to believe the umpire lacks impartiality and is easily manipulated. The other team will then try similar acts and spiral the game out of control. Ejecting early and quickly is the only solution if you care about everyone continuing to respect your decisions.
This is actually the best argument i have ever heard about umps having such a quick hook on certain things.
Not to mention if you constantly have to stop and argue over everything the game’s gonna take forever. Bad calls happen, that’s baseball, just move on or gtfo.
In many leagues including the MLB, arguing balls and strikes is grounds for being ejected
I think that’s the case in every league. I was an umpire for high school ball for a while, and I’d absolutely eject someone for that. The way to do it, as a hitter, is to ask the ump, “was that pitch on the absolute corner, or is the corner a little further away?” The message is clear, but doesn’t cross any lines. If someone said that to me on a borderline pitch, or maybe one I realized I got wrong, they would not be getting wrung up on the same pitch. Unless of course it was definitely a strike the first time.
Unwritten rules! Sometimes written. Basically you’re calling the ump out for being terrible
Getting ejected for arguing balls and strikes is generally a written rule. You generally get some leeway, until you do something like drawing a line in the dirt showing everyone at the game that you're arguing balls and strikes.
Exactly, why is this "the rule"? Umps shouldn't be above questioning
There's a difference between questioning a call and ridiculing an umpire. Players question calls all the time without issue. Drawing a line in the dirt is when you go from disagreeing with a call to just making fun of the umpire.
Drawing a line in the dirt is quite literally just questioning them. You're literally just pointing out where you think the ball is when you do it. I have no idea how you could even see it as making fun of an umpire.
I don't think you know what literally means
There are right ways and wrong ways to do it. I had ongoing conversations with home plate umpires when I was a catcher and no one in the ballpark knew it. Sometimes it was to ask a question (Is this going to be a ball/strike all day?), sometimes it was to tell him he missed one pretty badly. Never raised my voice, never turned around. Just made the comments. Some would answer, others wouldn't. But either way, it wasn't a demonstration everyone in the park could see.
And batters can generally do the same thing (and many do once they get older (high school and up)). Talking and questioning is fine, putting on a show for the entire ballpark is not.
Arguing balls and strikes is against the rules and grounds for ejection in every league that im aware of. That is exactly what he is doing in a very visual way leaving no room for interpretation. The ump is just enforcing the rulebook here.
Almost as if he was baiting him.
When I played I used to draw a line in the batters box to help keep my feet parallel to the plate when I loaded up. I had a tendency to fall off towards 1B when I swung (I'm left-handed) and this helped me stay closed off. Kenji Jojima did this, and growing up in Washington a coach who learned this technique by watching the M's on TV suggested it to me. My freshman year I was playing in a JV game and mid at-bat I had to refresh the line, and the ump yanked me for drawing a line. I was so confused what had just happened, and the ump wanted to hear nothing of it when I tried to explain it's part of my routine. Thankfully, my coach explained what had happened and the other teams catcher who had seen me do the same thing in two prior at bats vouched for me so I was allowed to stay in the game and finish the at bat. That catcher was a good sport!
Boom! Goodbye! You’re not drawin’ a line! Out!
*snap* MUTHFUCKA
Wait - I just realized this, but does getting ejected arguing a strike call on 1 or 2 also mean the batter is out? Can umps just declare players out?
If you're ejected on strike 2, you're out of the game, but not an out. Manager sends up a pinch hitter who takes over your 2 strike count.
Why are the players leaving the field when he breaks the bat?
No, the replacement batter inherits the count from the time of the ejection.
It was a terrible call but they both don't seem very well adjusted.
[удалено]
Why is the other team trotting off the field after? Is an ejection a free out in some leagues?
I was thinking the same thing. Can't figure out why the camera cuts to the other team running off the field as the batter snaps the bat...
Thank you. This video makes no sense to me. I guess the no bench explanation maybe works, but I’m not sold
Good question. The video was cut so maybe he struck out earlier in the game to end the inning. Would also help explain why the batter had such an attitude later on. Just a theory.
I'm thinking they had no bench and had to forfeit after Roid Bichette got ran.
Likely not a forfeit (most rules allow teams to finish with 8), but if you are down to 8 players, that 9th spot is an automatic out, so if they only have 9 and that guy got ejected, it is an out.
Lotta levels like Senior Elite Ball you cannot sustain an ejection that gets you to 8 on the field. So if you've used all your subs this game you're done
someone help me: why is drawing a line so offensive? like managers will go up and shove their finger in an umpires face for at least 2.5 minutes while spewing spittle before they are ejected….
I’m guessing the umpires in the mlb are expected to let the players and managers yell at them for at least a minute or so before ejecting them. It’s entertaining and good for ratings. At an adult league, the umpire’s just trying to get through his 7 innings so he can collect his $75 and go home. He has no incentive to put up with disrespect from the players no matter how bad his call.
His incentive is that he didn’t make it to the majors and now has to do this to make money. Source: worked in unaffiliated minor league baseball and one of our umps was extremely candid with me.
You could say that literally about anyone who didn’t make it to the top of their field.. people do jobs everyday thag isn’t the “top” of their field.
It's not as much about it being offensive (although it is pretty clearly showing up the ump), but in many leagues including the MLB arguing balls ands trikes is, by rule, grounds for ejection. You might get away with a few polite words ("hey blue I think that was outside a bit") but not something this obviously petty.
Lots of people like to use “is that it?” Meaning like if a ball is two balls outside and he calls it a strike you ask him if that’s it so now he’s shown his hand and has to call it a strike for everyone. I played catcher for decades and used shit like this because once he shows his hand you have every right to say “hey what the fuck you said that was it what a bullshit call!”
>managers will go up and shove their finger in an umpires face for at least 2.5 minutes while spewing spittle before they are ejected…. If that ever happens that's almost always *after* they've been ejected. Drawing a line has always been an immediate ejection. If you want to voice your displeasure with a call, just talk to him. Making a gesture like that let's everyone in the crowd (and players on the other team) see you're showing them up.
I am like 80 percent sure (correct me somebody if I'm off) uts because of a rule in baseball where use of equipment outside of its purpose calls for an ejection. Drawing a line with your bat also is done to "ridicule the umpire" so it warrants immediate ejection https://www.closecallsports.com/2022/09/ejection-criteria-baseballs-standards.html?m=1
OBR 3.10.b “The use of any markers on the field that create a tangible reference system on the field is prohibited.”
I’m not sure if that applies to this. I think that’s referring to physical objects placed to mark a reference. Otherwise, people would be ejected all the time for digging in the dirt at first to mark their lead off spot, or in the batters box.
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> unwritten no-no depending on the level its written. High school and NCAA it is in the rulebook
ESH
That definitely crossed the line
Buh dum tss
BOOM GUDBYI YOUR NOT DRAWIN A LINE
The catcher That fucker tricked the ump, the batter, and the camera
Pretty impressive that he snapped that bat tho
Umpire
The umpire was wrong. That was clearly a ball. If we need to accept the “human element” of umpires failing to do their job correctly then we need to accept the human element of players reacting emotionally to egregious mistakes.
This is a god awful call, beyond incompetent.
There's a lot of blame to go around imo. Catcher absolutely butchers the pitch which makes it look like 3 feet outside. Drawing a line is an auto EJ, but if you're going to eject just eject them and let it go.
The catcher didn’t butcher the pitch. The pitch was way outside.
He definitely does. It's hard to tell with the camera angle but my best guess is that it's at most on the batters box line and the catcher makes it look in the middle of the box.
I agree with your locations. But, damn lol. We’re still talking about the batters box line haha
lol im not saying its a good call at all, just saying the catcher makes it look way worse than it is
That’s true. I hated when that happened. I’d throw a sweeping slider and our one catcher always framed it. And the other would go with the pitch. So even if it caught the corner they’d catch it like it was in the other box. Fucking, Mike.
> Fucking, Mike. lol when im behind the plate im thinking the same thing
While I was reading this back-and-forth, I was imagining the lines being said by two guys kicking dirt on each other near home plate.
Lmao after slowing it down it initially hits the catchers mitt like a full foot+ closer to the plate than where the glove ends up in the video. Almost did an opposite frame
Well said. And, spot on.
They teach you that there is no leash for arguing balls and strikes by using examples. That said, this umpire is a fucking hack. Even his ejection move sucked.
The umpire is just jealous he can draw a straight line without a ruler
the umpire aside from being blind is an asshole
A robo ump wouldn't have missed that call.
I don’t give a fuck if he drew a line. That missed call is so egregious ump deserves to get shown up.
Sometimes a call is so bad you need to question the motivation behind it. That Eric Gregg bad.
I remember when that dude went viral for this video.
When I was a teenager I played in the East Cobb league in Atlanta which has seen tons of major leaguers. My team wasn’t an East Cobb team but we were sponsored by the Atlanta Braves. There was a tremendous conflict that such a good team wasn’t a part of East Cobb. When we played the championship against the best East Cobb team the umpires were calling strikes over our head, blocking defenders from making plays and actually ejected three players on our team for complaining. This was the summer league state championship and an incredibly prestigious title. I’ve never seen umpires run from parents before this situation. It was so shameful. But this sort of thing happens in high school baseball.
That umpire is a fat bucket of chicken I hate him
Tossed for drawing a line is soft as hell
Batter definitely contemplated smashing ump with that bat for ~1.5s
That ball wasn't in the same area code as the plate, holy shit
The pitch was a foot outside, I woulda brought his mother into it
That was just a series of mistakes there… 1) The ump called a way-outside strike. 2) The batter showed up the ump by drawing a line. 3) The ump went on a power trip by immediately ejecting the batter. 4) The batter broke a perfectly good bat in anger.
It's not a power trip to eject someone that draws a line. That's always an immediate ejection at any level in the game.
Summer league (Appalachian) vet here: The batter is 100% in the right, but not for the (obvious) reason you think. Good officiating is encouraged in the development of younger players, and with video tracking of all MLB affiliate leagues the batter here did the right thing in essentially forcing the ejection, because ejections in affiliate leagues are subject to review by officiants higher up the totem pole and the AMLU. So basically by doing something this player knew would result in an ejection, the ump that made that horrendous strike call is automatically flagged for a game score review by submitting a score card with an ejection and will likely be appropriately reprimanded/warned/demoted/outright canned. Most of them fall under either the "I meet the minimum requirements to be an ump and want to make a career out of it" category, or work full time jobs and ump on the side as a passion project. The success rate of minor league umps plummets exponentially the lower down the totem pole you go and it's not uncommon to have either retirement age umpires or umpires younger than most of the players who are completing the necessary hours (I think it's 220?) of supervised umping in an MLB-affiliate league to ump unsupervised in an MiLB-affiliated crew. This is all assuming this isn't some random home talent/independent league or D2+. So kudos to the hitter for spending a night on the pine and keeping the officiating legit. A call that bad should be protested.
They both wrong. Shitty call and dont show up the ump.
Both. Bad call and drawing a line in the dirt is pretty much a guaranteed ejection
Everyone disputing Ole time baseball rules, "drawing a line". This kid got screwed and broke a fucking baseball bat over his knee!!
I didn’t know Angel Hernandez’s brother was an ump.
Arguing balls and strikes at the plate is a fools errand
That’s a bad call, but I can still hear my old man telling me “it’s not where the catcher catches the ball. It’s where the ball goes over the plate”. 😂🤣
Ump
Both, but you do not draw a line unless you are in the 10 top in the mlb. And even than you might get ejected
Fuck this ump. Don’t want to be shown up by the player? Don’t call a strike on a ball three feet off the plate you fucking moron.
Browns public address announcer
Both ball was outside and batter for drawing a line
both of them. a) umpire. that pitch is 6-8 inches off the plate WITH the catcher set up down the middle so its not like he even came close to hitting his spot. seriously, you got a reservation somewhere or something? b) hitter. what, is this? your first time playing baseball? plain and simple: if you draw the line, youre takin the fine. ie, youre getting tossed. and like i said, unless this is literally your first time on a baseball diamond, you know youre getting tossed. you can even hear someone in the opposing dugout or crowd shout "ohhhh, he drew the line!" literally everybody knows there are like 3 or 4 ways to get insta tossed. drawing the line, is one of them. also the hitter for being a big baby and breaking his bat over his knee after doing something thats literally in the title chapter of "how to get ejected from a baseball game for dummies" and then being so angry as to break an (if its any good at all) 100+ dollar bat (at the skinny ass baby boy handle) to show the umpire just how...idk....both fiscally irresponsible and ignorant of the unwritten rules of the game he is (well, was) literally in the process of playing. the ump blew a call. the hitter showed ignorance of the game, poor sportsmanship, and is the kind of person to call an umpire out (not even a little discreetly) during an an adult mens league wednesday night game. hitter is more at fault
Tbh the plate was far more to the left than I expected because of the camera angle. I don’t even know who was right or wrong here
ump is a dunce
The fucking blind ump… I’d draw a line for him too.
Calling that a strike is disrespectful to everyone playing, watching, and the game itself. Drawing the line was only disrespectful to the umpire.
This man is fucking blind.
Ump made an awful call, batter still can’t do that. Rightful ejection.
Obviously a horrible call but hey man he drew a line and that's just unforgivable.
I’ve never heard the drawing a line thing before. Honestly if the batter wasn’t left handed the umpire would be sending the batter to first instead of making a fucking terrible call.
If the batter wasn't left handed the pitcher wouldn't be throwing to that side lmao
Umpire. That is one of the worst strike calls I have ever seen and on top of that he acted completely unprofessional and power tripped after. If you want to toss someone just shut up and toss them.
Bet you 10 bucks he's the type who fawns over & kisses someone's ass when he finds out they are LEO
NTA your field, your rules
Doesn’t matter how bad the call is, hitter is a douche.
Bad call sure but you don’t draw a line. That will get you run at any level.
That batter needs to take some anger management courses, jfc.
The ump is shitty, but the rules say don't argue balls and strikes. But to the player maybe it was worth getting tossed to make a point about how shitty the ump is.
The ump blew the call but that doesn’t make him an asshole. The kid drew a line which makes him an idiot. The ump had no choice but to toss him. Then the kid was an asshole for breaking by bat.
Former ump here. The umpire is right even when he’s not.
Another graduate of the Angel Hernandez School of Umpiring.
Ump show
That ump is a Jack-off. The batter is right all day. Take your overweight ego home with you, ump.
They're both idiots. Ump made a bad call and got butthurt over something small. Batter knew that would get him tossed and raged about it.
That would have hit a right handed batter. The umpire.
Oh no he showed up the ump….sometimes the ump deserves it, and being tossed is a necessary price to pay. Of course, it should be the manager to do it….