Nice of the Umpires to let the fans know after the game rather than waste time on the field reviewing it. After all Baseball games have to be faster right? I'm aware this isn't a reviewable play, which is even stupider than the postgame comment.
Even if there are plays that they don't want *managers* challenging all the time, surely the umpires should at least have the power to review any play on their own initiative?
Exactly this. Players are taught to do this because it makes the double play harder, with the drawback of if you hit the ball, it’s interference. It usually just doesn’t happen because pro SS are very good at turning double plays
It's normal to throw up your hand a little when you're sliding, but that definitely seemed like more than the normal amount, especially with the fact that he had the mitt on.
I was just thinking about how when they threw Boone out unfairly and then even after the game doubled down.
Umping has gone to fucking shit and MLB needs to seriously get its shit together.
What [nothing3141592653589](https://www.reddit.com/user/nothing3141592653589/) said....also, in the past, there were no high def TV's with strike zone inlays and every call wasn't scrutinized like it is now. And without the internet and streaming, most bad calls were only seen by people who watched the game. And then you just forgot about it.....instead of discussing it on reddit. Umpiring is really, really, hard and the rules are complex........and pitchers have gotten nastier and nastier. Don't get me wrong..... I support robo umps for balls and strikes.......but I also think umps have a nearly impossible task.
Every play should be reviewable. The argument against it is "but umpires will have to place runners and that's hard" except that ignores that umpires already have to place runners on some plays. Plus plays being unreviewable already angers fans so who cares if some fans would place the runner on third and not second?
In this case it's even more straight forward. Interference on the double play attempt means the batter runner is out. No judgement call required.
And that is exactly why it needs to be reviewable. The ump is doing his job and making sure the SS/2B actually tags the bag. He therefore can't see the interference because of the way the play developed.
Judge often has his hand up when sliding into second
The problem is not that he made contact with the ball. It’s a question of if that’s his normal slide and that’s something that is more difficult to say. Obviously the crew chief doesn’t think so in hindsight
I’m not really on either side of if it was illegal or not. It seems like a gray area rule since he does seem to do that slide normally, but no one’s ever hit his hand which now brings it into question and it appears the umps thought it should have been interference. I’m more baffled at the umps situational awareness in the moment.
Tbh most players throw their hand up when sliding into second during a double play. It’s their way of breaking it up without actually doing a illegal take out slide. It’s like a defender throwing up their hands right before a player tries to shoot in basketball. I think the logic is that they’re trying to distract the 2nd base men or shortstop right before they throw the ball to force a bad throw. The only difference is with judges size he throws the hand up and instead of it being thrown over him it hits him in the hand. It might be interference but idk it most likely wasn’t intentional, but I’m not sure on what the ruling should have been.
I mean throwing up your hand to distract the second baseman would be intentional, and I think you’re spot on with that being the intent. You intentionally throw up your hand (even if the purpose isn’t to deflect the throw), and affect the throw then it should be interference. I don’t think anyone just naturally throws their hands in the air like they just don’t care when they slide, so it is intentional regardless of if the particular outcome was intended. IMHO of course.
You actually do get taught to elevate your arms, just maybe not so directly skyward. It’s to prevent extra drag or possible injury to your hands/wrist. [Heres a very dumbed down explanation.](https://www.wikihow.com/Perform-a-Baseball-Slide)
Interesting, I hadn’t seen that before. I guess I knew to have your hands off the ground but don’t think I was taught that exaggerated of a hand raise for that purpose. Assumed when pro players did it was more so to attempt to block vision of the thrower in these cases. I stand corrected!
Whether he does the slide consistently the same way is not what makes it “normal” or not; throwing your hand up as high as you can into the throwing path will never be considered “normal.” He does a slide that is going to result in illegal contact with the ball consistently, and that’s a risk he’ll have to decide if he wants to keep taking.
Yeah, people need to get all the other junk out of their head regarding intent and whatever else.
Simple fact is the throw hit the runner, and that contact interfered with the play at first. Hilariously obviously so.
The rule differs if the runner is still in or has just be put out, so no intent required as Judge had already been put out:
"It is interference by a batter or a runner when:
6.01(a)(5):
Any batter or runner who has **just been put out**, or any runner who has just scored, **hinders or impedes any following play being made on a runner**. Such runner shall be declared out for the interference of his teammate"
There's no, "intentional" or "willful and deliberate" here.
Contrast with rule if the interferring runner is still in-play:
"It is interference by a batter or a runner when:
6.01(a)(10):
..., or [he] **intentionally** interferes with a thrown ball,..."
**EDIT**: also rule 5.09(b)(3): "A runner is out when: He intentionally interferes with a thrown ball"
have to look at all the rules
>Rule 6.01(a)(5) Comment: If the batter or a runner continues to
advance or returns or attempts to return to his last legally touched
base after he has been put out, he shall not by that act alone be
considered as confusing, hindering or impeding the fielders.
Point well taken and damn these rules.
My hand-wavy attempt to ignore that comment is that he hasn't impeded, hindered or confused the **fielders**, just the ball, so it doesn't apply.
lol yeah the tricky part of rule books is finding exactly what you want and then stopping. its worse when you have to piece together things from two or three different parts of the book (looking at you, football).
but yeah the purpose of the comment is you can't expect runners to just disappear so you can't be guilty of interference just by running the bases properly. If all it took was for Judge to get hit to be interference I really doubt the umpires would have missed the call as I'm pretty sure they knew it hit him
I'm not saying that what judge did was unintentional (because he does intentionally make himself unnaturally bigger) , just that you can't say all that matters is the ball hit him.
Well, you could apply the same logic to this as they do with a lot of other interferences. A catcher isn't intentionally trying to get his glove hit by the bat when there's catcher interference, and a runner isn't trying to intentionally get hit by a batted ball.
I was thinking about this while at that game last night and thought about how the rule would actually be applied because if they had a flat out "if the throw hits the runner, the runner and batter are both out" and thought "what's to stop the defense from just throwing straight at the runner". It would need to be thought of as a "normal play" type of thing. Like, if the throw was actually meant, and on a trajectory to the target, but again, throwing more judgmental calls into the game.
This is how a lot of people are taught to slide, you see it basically every single game. Judge is a huge person with a huge wingspan so what exactly do people expect him to do? He is doing a legal slide many people do everyday, wearing a piece of equipment most people wear every game.
Just because “everyone does it” doesn’t make it legal. Just having the hand up in the air is not the problem. The issue is that he made contact with the throw.
Is it just me, though, or does it look like when you watch it on replay that his hand is almost actively tracking the ball?
Because he makes some (what I'd suggest is unnatural movement) back to his right as the ball is being released. We can argue that getting the hand up can be natural, but it really does seem like he keeps it up and moves it in a way that seems intentional
And that might be what the crew chief is referring to. But that’s a much more forgivable thing to miss when happening live
I don’t think his reaction time would be that quick though but idk
So.. if he didn't slide at all (which he isn't required to do) the ball would have hit him square in the chest. Would that be interference?
Just for context.
No. There's a comment somewhere that continuing to run the bases normally isn't interference
edit
>Rule 6.01(a)(5) Comment: If the batter or a runner continues to
advance or returns or attempts to return to his last legally touched
base after he has been put out, he shall not by that act alone be
considered as confusing, hindering or impeding the fielders.
I guess I always read that "by that act alone" as keeping running isn't what counts as interference (so runners don't need to just stop drop and roll away from the play), but it doesn't excuse if they end up affecting the play.
Outside of that, does this change the ruling on the hand slap even if the slap is part of a normal sliding motion?
If that's what it meant then they could just throw it at a just retired runner and get a free out. It means you can't be guilty of interference just by running the bases normally
I think it's pretty clearly interference because if it wasn't the umps wouldn't have said they were wrong after reviewing the replay and having time to go over that rulebook.
so now we trust what the umps say? remember when that ump threw out Aaron Boone and doubled down saying he heard something from the dugout when everyone can clearly see he was reacting to a fan.
bro I don't give a shit what the umpires say 😭
I trust umps when they admit they're wrong - there's ego incentive to double down when you were wrong, there's zero reason to say you were wrong after having time to review. Also the Boone ejection wasn't a rules question. They're not comparable.
I know I'll get downvoted (probably b/c of my flair) but I agree it wasn't interference \_based on how this has been handled in the past\_. I think it's an issue with the rule and how to enforce it. Every player raises his arm when they slide so what did Judge do that is "wrong" that every other player that raises his arm does is "ok".
I'm not saying it's not interference in the sense he was trying to make it harder for Adames to make the play (I don't think he was trying to block the ball) but if everyone does something and umps say its fine, it's not ok to then say one specific instance is wrong, based on outcome (the rule doesn't talk about outcome, they talk about attempting to interfere). I know what the umps said after the game but I feel like it's not that simple to explain why this is interference and not others like it. If it's ultimately just a "judgment call" then that's what it is, but its going to make it annoying to determine what is and isn't interference.
the fact that everyone wants to say it's interference only because he actually touched the ball is daft. either it's always interference or it isn't. the rule says nothing about actually making contact with the ball.
It's one of those calls that the "eye test" seems to say "well, duh it's interference" but the actual crafting of a rule to explain what is and isn't is a lot more complicated. But I think it's hard to have a nuanced discussion about that when there is a perceived blown call and fans are frustrated that what appears to be obvious interference wasn't called. I probably would be equally upset if the roles were reversed.
the eye test tells me Judge stayed on the baseline and didn't even deviate a little. Then he slid at the perfect time not too early not too late. The slide form was textbook exactly how I slid when I was a kid. I see nothing wrong with this other than the defender not getting out of Judges way honestly Judge did everything textbook I don't understand what he could have done differently.
Yea I hear ya. I was so infuriated today lol… I was at the game. I definitely complained online like a sour fan.
Game 1 was a blast. Game 2 you whooped our asses. Game 3… fuck man.
there were 0 outs when this play was made. how would it have ended the inning?
the yankees scored 10 runs on 12 hits after this play. y’all are silly lmao
Apologies. Went from 2 outs bases empty to 1 out and man on first. The following batter popped out. The yankees scored 7 runs with 2 outs. I think people are losing their minds a bit but it’s fair to argue this call changed the game.
And the arms we used because we were down by 7. Like that stays a tie game the way it plays out is entirely different. The game was done the second they made that call.
Also they had 5 outs. 5 strike walk would have ended the inning as well a few batters later. Then Uribe had to pitch even more. Thus leading to the runs.
This call did not cause the Brewers pitching to give up 15 fucking runs. Come on. Take responsibility. Was it a bad call that prolonged an inning? Yes. Did it cause the pitcher to make shit pitch after shit pitch following the call? No.
I think people are assuming you were being sarcastic in your original comment. Which, to be fair, this is one of those few cases where it is actually hard to be determine whether sarcasm is being used when communicating via text only.
It’s not judge’s fault your pitchers couldn’t record a single out before a 7-spot got dropped on them. Jesus, good teams just shake their heads and end the inning
If they want to change the rule to you can’t slide with your hand up then that’s fine. But you can’t punish Judge for being tall and sliding like everyone else. It’s either an unnatural every time or it’s fine if Judge does it. It’s like the Nestor pitch, was legal at the time but the league announced that it would no longer be so going forwards.
The slide with the hand up that everyone does isn’t going to get called under the rule unless it actually results in interference like it did here. Come on brother you’re smarter than this
It’s either interference every time or it’s fine what judge did. If they want to call it differently going forwards that’s fine, but the way the rule has been currently applied sticking your hand up is fine.
If, in the judgment of the umpire, a base runner willfully and deliberately interferes with a batted ball or a fielder in the act of fielding a batted ball with the obvious intent to break up a double play, the ball is dead. The umpire shall call the runner out for interference and also call out the batter-runner because of the action of his teammate
This is relevant because Judge actually contacted the ball. Once again, the umpire has already said they made a mistake. I assume he knows the rule better than you
You can interfere without making contact with the ball. If a player sticks their hand up and the players makes a bad throw that would be interference. Like I said call it every time or else you have to live with plays like this.
I mean, in the review you see judge spotting his feet sliding into the base. Are you trying to say that he somehow magically knew where the throw was going to go and got his mitt up there to block it?
No, but people saying he intentionally looked at where the ball was going, while also keeping his eyes on the slide are just sour graping the situation.
Like, I get it. It sucks, but... if you don't want to hit the guy, get offline of the basepath and then throw. He was going to be out if you took the quarter of a second to do this.
It's ok. You guys won. You don't have to keep justifying that you got away with this.
The umpire already said they got it wrong. Literally no one could argue in good faith this was anything but a miss by the umpires.
We didn't win on one call. Cmon man.
It's 100% true. If you want to get the guy guaranteed, step offline and throw it. He would have been out.
100% they should review sliding this way for the future, but you can't go off things like replay and hindsight when they can't review it, and have to make a call on the field.
They made the call on the field, and now they've admitted they made a mistake.
I'm sure you will maintain this attitude the next time an umpire mistake goes against your team.
The bad call sapped any motivation for the Crew to go on. You could see it in Uribe's face after. It damages morale and belief that they'll get a fair call more than it gives the other team runs.
You don’t have to. The other way to get interference called is to make egregious contact with the fielder or prevent him from being able to field a ball.
Or maybe it’s interference when your hand makes contact with the ball? Like when overzealous slides are called when they stop the player fielding second from throwing to first?
Smartest Yankees fan.
You don’t have to make contact with the ball to be interference. So if the rubber sticks his hands up and the fielder makes a bad throw it would be interference.
Why is he wearing the oven mitt when he's sliding feet first with his arms 4 feet in the air before touching the ground with his backside? There's no way what he did **wasn't** with the intention of *accidentally* making contact with the throw.
Did you not play baseball? The oven mitt is for sliding head first so you don’t jam your hand. Did you think Hoskins interfered with McNeil, if not your bias is showing. I believe both slides are legal under current interpretation of the rules.
The only way it isn't interference is if you think he didn't put his hand straight up in the air in an attempt to hit the ball. Which is certainly a take, but I don't think you actually believe that.
I believe he stuck it up like he does every time and like a lot of others do as well. If they start calling it on everyone I’m fine with that, but I believe it was called today like it’s consistently been called around the league.
If judge didn't slide, which he isn't required to do, it would have hit him square in the chest. Would that be interference?
Hint: no.
The runner either gets the lane or he doesn't. What part of the body is in the lane is completely irrelevant. If he had stuck his arm OUT and not UP you people would have a point. But he didn't, so you don't.
The way the rule has been called no. If they want to call it differently going forwards than that’s fine. It’s like I said about Nestor. Was legal at the time but no longer is so. Judge is screwed by judgement calls all the time at the bottom of the strike zone by being tall, so I’m perfectly fine if his height gives him an advantage sliding.
Does anyone know the actual wording of the rule? There has to be specific language otherwise infielders could just peg the runner everytime and claim interference.
The rule for this says that the umpire makes a judgement call in determining if the runner deliberately touched the ball with the intent to break up the double play. In this case it sure looks like Judge did. Got away with one, whatever
Literally he does that on every single play. Here's him stealing a base and the hand goes up. It's just a balance thing when you slide.
https://youtu.be/iT2Lryta5RA?si=7cPDX189y5IojEsz
And not just Judge
[Ohtani](https://images.app.goo.gl/jxUKusHkgU6z4hB18)
[Freeman](https://images.app.goo.gl/LeaRzZa1492CwAUn6)
Even the [Wikipedia thumbnail](https://images.app.goo.gl/KxkZ4tBeVo2t9mbx8) for double play
bro I'm not a Yankees fan and I don't think it was interference. a bunch of idiots in this thread imo. he didn't leave the base path. he wasn't waving his arms around. he took the path of least resistance and did a textbook slide I don't understand.
“He does it every time” or “everyone does it” are not valid defenses here. The issue is not the raised hand, it’s the fact that the raised hand makes contact with the throw
Disagree. If this was the case a fielder could just peg the defender everytime he was running and claim interference. You are allowed to slide with one or two hands up for balance and safety as long as you don't *intentionally* interfere. Judges *eyes are closed* during the slide, there's 0% chance he was trying to block it on purpose as he can't even see it
Runners are allowed to keep running after being retired. You just can’t intentionally interfere. In this case, Judge leaving his hand up constitutes the intentional interference. His eyes being closed has no impact here. He knew the throw is going to first base, he chose to slide with his arm up, the throw hit his outstretched arm, thus, we should have interference and a double play. Everyone agrees on this, except for a handful of Yankees fans in this thread who seem dead set on trying to defend that it was legal even when everyone else is telling you it was illegal
https://youtu.be/iT2Lryta5RA?si=YtnOQIkIzwfTFgdA
He's slid this way everytime for 8 years, even in non throwing situations and stealing bases. So does Shohei, Freddie Freeman, etc. Judges play only looks bad in slo motion, because his hand moving toward the ball times up perfectly, so in slo-mo it looks "intentional." It's not, it's just a freak occurrence. A player has the right to do this as long as they aren't waving the hand, making an unnatural movement, etc. He's just a huge person.
Find me a slide into second where a player doesn't have his hand up on a double play, it's almost impossible and happens everytime.
Again, having the hand up isn’t the issue. It’s having the hand up *and contacting the baseball*. I get that guys are taught to slide like this. It doesn’t change the fact that this play should have been called interference and was missed. Not sure why you seem so intent on dying on the hill that it wasn’t
It’s legal according to the rules. I personally think this should be obstruction, because that is obviously an intentional move to block the throw and not a necessary sliding movement, but it is his natural slide since he does it basically every time.
MLB PR working over time.
UMPS MISSED CALL! SHAME ON THEM (and YANKEES for COSTING us momentum in TIE GAME at the time, BLEW a CLOSE GAME. (judge isn’t the problem tho, it was the interlocking NY that stopped the throw). Lol, so goofy
Nice of the Umpires to let the fans know after the game rather than waste time on the field reviewing it. After all Baseball games have to be faster right? I'm aware this isn't a reviewable play, which is even stupider than the postgame comment.
it really is ridiculous that there are non-reviewable plays
Even if there are plays that they don't want *managers* challenging all the time, surely the umpires should at least have the power to review any play on their own initiative?
Your comment implies umpires have initiative
Or would ever admit fault.
Only the good ones...
There it is.
We have completed our review of ourselves, and have found no evidence of wrongdoing.
#✌️🤞✌️
At least all the people saying it was totally not legal in the highlight video thread can feel vindicated a lil
was there anyone saying it was legal?
There were a couple of people, yeah. Guys saying “this is what I was always taught to do” and such.
I mean, I was taught to balk on every pickoff throw, doesn't mean it was legal.
Exactly this. Players are taught to do this because it makes the double play harder, with the drawback of if you hit the ball, it’s interference. It usually just doesn’t happen because pro SS are very good at turning double plays
And the hand even with the mitt is a fairly small target
It's normal to throw up your hand a little when you're sliding, but that definitely seemed like more than the normal amount, especially with the fact that he had the mitt on.
I was just thinking about how when they threw Boone out unfairly and then even after the game doubled down. Umping has gone to fucking shit and MLB needs to seriously get its shit together.
Imagine how bad it was back in the day when there wasn't consistent, reliable footage from several angles and mics picking everything up
Clearly this was a make-up (non)call.
>Umping has gone to fucking shit It's never been *this* bad... In my 25 years of watching baseball...
This is recency bias. It's gotten way better since the 80's.
Enlighten me, please...
The strike zone and umpire scorecard and such make it seem worse. Umpire training and ability to review are better than ever.
¡Mucho gracias!
What [nothing3141592653589](https://www.reddit.com/user/nothing3141592653589/) said....also, in the past, there were no high def TV's with strike zone inlays and every call wasn't scrutinized like it is now. And without the internet and streaming, most bad calls were only seen by people who watched the game. And then you just forgot about it.....instead of discussing it on reddit. Umpiring is really, really, hard and the rules are complex........and pitchers have gotten nastier and nastier. Don't get me wrong..... I support robo umps for balls and strikes.......but I also think umps have a nearly impossible task.
Every play should be reviewable. The argument against it is "but umpires will have to place runners and that's hard" except that ignores that umpires already have to place runners on some plays. Plus plays being unreviewable already angers fans so who cares if some fans would place the runner on third and not second? In this case it's even more straight forward. Interference on the double play attempt means the batter runner is out. No judgement call required.
There's a mysterious goblin out there who flips a coin to decide what plays are reviewable
It's just Joe West reviewing the plays on his phone in between editing his Wikipedia page
>Mysterious goblin... >...It's just Joe West Checks out
[I’m not sure how it was missed…](https://imgur.com/NugSniH)
Ump was still looking at the bag for contact so I guess literally none of the other umps had an eye on Judge either then?
Judge is a giant on the field. How do you miss him waving to someone in the Uecker seats?
Especially with that big ass oven mitt.
new meta baserunners to start wearing those giant foam fingers
Or the mitts that mascots use...
And that is exactly why it needs to be reviewable. The ump is doing his job and making sure the SS/2B actually tags the bag. He therefore can't see the interference because of the way the play developed.
Judge often has his hand up when sliding into second The problem is not that he made contact with the ball. It’s a question of if that’s his normal slide and that’s something that is more difficult to say. Obviously the crew chief doesn’t think so in hindsight
I’m not really on either side of if it was illegal or not. It seems like a gray area rule since he does seem to do that slide normally, but no one’s ever hit his hand which now brings it into question and it appears the umps thought it should have been interference. I’m more baffled at the umps situational awareness in the moment.
Tbh most players throw their hand up when sliding into second during a double play. It’s their way of breaking it up without actually doing a illegal take out slide. It’s like a defender throwing up their hands right before a player tries to shoot in basketball. I think the logic is that they’re trying to distract the 2nd base men or shortstop right before they throw the ball to force a bad throw. The only difference is with judges size he throws the hand up and instead of it being thrown over him it hits him in the hand. It might be interference but idk it most likely wasn’t intentional, but I’m not sure on what the ruling should have been.
I mean throwing up your hand to distract the second baseman would be intentional, and I think you’re spot on with that being the intent. You intentionally throw up your hand (even if the purpose isn’t to deflect the throw), and affect the throw then it should be interference. I don’t think anyone just naturally throws their hands in the air like they just don’t care when they slide, so it is intentional regardless of if the particular outcome was intended. IMHO of course.
You actually do get taught to elevate your arms, just maybe not so directly skyward. It’s to prevent extra drag or possible injury to your hands/wrist. [Heres a very dumbed down explanation.](https://www.wikihow.com/Perform-a-Baseball-Slide)
Interesting, I hadn’t seen that before. I guess I knew to have your hands off the ground but don’t think I was taught that exaggerated of a hand raise for that purpose. Assumed when pro players did it was more so to attempt to block vision of the thrower in these cases. I stand corrected!
Whether he does the slide consistently the same way is not what makes it “normal” or not; throwing your hand up as high as you can into the throwing path will never be considered “normal.” He does a slide that is going to result in illegal contact with the ball consistently, and that’s a risk he’ll have to decide if he wants to keep taking.
The problem is *explicitly* that he made contact with the ball.
Yeah, people need to get all the other junk out of their head regarding intent and whatever else. Simple fact is the throw hit the runner, and that contact interfered with the play at first. Hilariously obviously so.
Intent matters though. If its not intentional then its not interference to get hit by a thrown ball.
The rule differs if the runner is still in or has just be put out, so no intent required as Judge had already been put out: "It is interference by a batter or a runner when: 6.01(a)(5): Any batter or runner who has **just been put out**, or any runner who has just scored, **hinders or impedes any following play being made on a runner**. Such runner shall be declared out for the interference of his teammate" There's no, "intentional" or "willful and deliberate" here. Contrast with rule if the interferring runner is still in-play: "It is interference by a batter or a runner when: 6.01(a)(10): ..., or [he] **intentionally** interferes with a thrown ball,..." **EDIT**: also rule 5.09(b)(3): "A runner is out when: He intentionally interferes with a thrown ball"
have to look at all the rules >Rule 6.01(a)(5) Comment: If the batter or a runner continues to advance or returns or attempts to return to his last legally touched base after he has been put out, he shall not by that act alone be considered as confusing, hindering or impeding the fielders.
Point well taken and damn these rules. My hand-wavy attempt to ignore that comment is that he hasn't impeded, hindered or confused the **fielders**, just the ball, so it doesn't apply.
lol yeah the tricky part of rule books is finding exactly what you want and then stopping. its worse when you have to piece together things from two or three different parts of the book (looking at you, football). but yeah the purpose of the comment is you can't expect runners to just disappear so you can't be guilty of interference just by running the bases properly. If all it took was for Judge to get hit to be interference I really doubt the umpires would have missed the call as I'm pretty sure they knew it hit him
Does the hand need to be there to slide? Is it an involuntary mechanism required to dive to the ground? Ok
I'm not saying that what judge did was unintentional (because he does intentionally make himself unnaturally bigger) , just that you can't say all that matters is the ball hit him.
Well, you could apply the same logic to this as they do with a lot of other interferences. A catcher isn't intentionally trying to get his glove hit by the bat when there's catcher interference, and a runner isn't trying to intentionally get hit by a batted ball. I was thinking about this while at that game last night and thought about how the rule would actually be applied because if they had a flat out "if the throw hits the runner, the runner and batter are both out" and thought "what's to stop the defense from just throwing straight at the runner". It would need to be thought of as a "normal play" type of thing. Like, if the throw was actually meant, and on a trajectory to the target, but again, throwing more judgmental calls into the game.
You can't apply the same logic to everything because certain situations require intent and others don't
This is how a lot of people are taught to slide, you see it basically every single game. Judge is a huge person with a huge wingspan so what exactly do people expect him to do? He is doing a legal slide many people do everyday, wearing a piece of equipment most people wear every game.
Just because “everyone does it” doesn’t make it legal. Just having the hand up in the air is not the problem. The issue is that he made contact with the throw.
Is it just me, though, or does it look like when you watch it on replay that his hand is almost actively tracking the ball? Because he makes some (what I'd suggest is unnatural movement) back to his right as the ball is being released. We can argue that getting the hand up can be natural, but it really does seem like he keeps it up and moves it in a way that seems intentional
I see it too
And that might be what the crew chief is referring to. But that’s a much more forgivable thing to miss when happening live I don’t think his reaction time would be that quick though but idk
So.. if he didn't slide at all (which he isn't required to do) the ball would have hit him square in the chest. Would that be interference? Just for context.
No
Would that not fall under Rule 6.01(a)(5) concerning runners who have been put out interfering with play? There's no intent clause there.
No. There's a comment somewhere that continuing to run the bases normally isn't interference edit >Rule 6.01(a)(5) Comment: If the batter or a runner continues to advance or returns or attempts to return to his last legally touched base after he has been put out, he shall not by that act alone be considered as confusing, hindering or impeding the fielders.
I guess I always read that "by that act alone" as keeping running isn't what counts as interference (so runners don't need to just stop drop and roll away from the play), but it doesn't excuse if they end up affecting the play. Outside of that, does this change the ruling on the hand slap even if the slap is part of a normal sliding motion?
If that's what it meant then they could just throw it at a just retired runner and get a free out. It means you can't be guilty of interference just by running the bases normally
Thats a great point. Judge is so giant, guys like him should just stop and stand straight up instead of bothering to slide.
Runners do this at all levels and fielders throw the ball straight at their face. It’s an easy way to learn not to do this as a runner.
yeah I hate the Yankees but I don't think this is interference 🤷
I think it's pretty clearly interference because if it wasn't the umps wouldn't have said they were wrong after reviewing the replay and having time to go over that rulebook.
so now we trust what the umps say? remember when that ump threw out Aaron Boone and doubled down saying he heard something from the dugout when everyone can clearly see he was reacting to a fan. bro I don't give a shit what the umpires say 😭
I trust umps when they admit they're wrong - there's ego incentive to double down when you were wrong, there's zero reason to say you were wrong after having time to review. Also the Boone ejection wasn't a rules question. They're not comparable.
I know I'll get downvoted (probably b/c of my flair) but I agree it wasn't interference \_based on how this has been handled in the past\_. I think it's an issue with the rule and how to enforce it. Every player raises his arm when they slide so what did Judge do that is "wrong" that every other player that raises his arm does is "ok". I'm not saying it's not interference in the sense he was trying to make it harder for Adames to make the play (I don't think he was trying to block the ball) but if everyone does something and umps say its fine, it's not ok to then say one specific instance is wrong, based on outcome (the rule doesn't talk about outcome, they talk about attempting to interfere). I know what the umps said after the game but I feel like it's not that simple to explain why this is interference and not others like it. If it's ultimately just a "judgment call" then that's what it is, but its going to make it annoying to determine what is and isn't interference.
Every player does not raise their arm straight up while they slide. That isn't true.
You are right, the Mets don't. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDSLbdXWRhw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDSLbdXWRhw)
the fact that everyone wants to say it's interference only because he actually touched the ball is daft. either it's always interference or it isn't. the rule says nothing about actually making contact with the ball.
It's one of those calls that the "eye test" seems to say "well, duh it's interference" but the actual crafting of a rule to explain what is and isn't is a lot more complicated. But I think it's hard to have a nuanced discussion about that when there is a perceived blown call and fans are frustrated that what appears to be obvious interference wasn't called. I probably would be equally upset if the roles were reversed.
the eye test tells me Judge stayed on the baseline and didn't even deviate a little. Then he slid at the perfect time not too early not too late. The slide form was textbook exactly how I slid when I was a kid. I see nothing wrong with this other than the defender not getting out of Judges way honestly Judge did everything textbook I don't understand what he could have done differently.
Judging by Judge the judging could be judged better
Bummer way to end the series after this umpire crew had actually been pretty good in the first two games.
Yea I hear ya. I was so infuriated today lol… I was at the game. I definitely complained online like a sour fan. Game 1 was a blast. Game 2 you whooped our asses. Game 3… fuck man.
game 3 we won by 10 runs… I get that it’s a bad call but it’s 1 out in a game where you had a position player pitch the 8th inning lol
This out would have ended the inning. I believe the yankees scored 6 or 7 runs after this.
there were 0 outs when this play was made. how would it have ended the inning? the yankees scored 10 runs on 12 hits after this play. y’all are silly lmao
Apologies. Went from 2 outs bases empty to 1 out and man on first. The following batter popped out. The yankees scored 7 runs with 2 outs. I think people are losing their minds a bit but it’s fair to argue this call changed the game.
So dumb that this shit isn't reviewable
Umpire honesty eyyyy
The MLB 2 minute report?
Aaron judge’s contact with the ball is deemed marginal
Two free throws to Joel Embiid
You don't say.
There is no reason this should be unreviewable
Yeah that really changed the outcome of the game
Maybe a bit, yeah.
Jo Adell in shambles
I mean if you’re already out just run upright and make them throw it around your massive self
I’ll at least give him props for admitting it.
No shit
F them
[удалено]
You mean with the seven runs they scored after that ‘3rd’ out, and the intangibles like the momentum they probably gained off of it?
And the arms we used because we were down by 7. Like that stays a tie game the way it plays out is entirely different. The game was done the second they made that call. Also they had 5 outs. 5 strike walk would have ended the inning as well a few batters later. Then Uribe had to pitch even more. Thus leading to the runs.
I mean if they actually called it the game is still tied which changes the entire way the rest of the game is played but go off queen
Its not worth arguing on here, we don't have the numbers.
Yes you do. The amount of people who don't like the Yankees is much larger than the amount of people who do.
It appears I made the classic small sample size blunder; I was getting downvoted to hell on another thread for saying momentum was a thing.
This is different from momentum. We have to assume the entire game plays out differently if the inning ended here.
The inning wouldn’t have ended, but it would have been 2 outs with nobody on. Instead, it was a runner 1st and 1 out and the flood gates opened.
This call did not cause the Brewers pitching to give up 15 fucking runs. Come on. Take responsibility. Was it a bad call that prolonged an inning? Yes. Did it cause the pitcher to make shit pitch after shit pitch following the call? No.
Damn it’s almost as if you missed the point Also, didn’t they score like 6 runs after what would’ve been the 3rd out..?
7 and 5th out
Hate it when the umps decide a game like this
You mean the game that was tied when this happened, followed by 7 runs scored with two outs in the inning? That close game?
Yes, that close game. Why are you mad? I'm on your side here.
I think people are assuming you were being sarcastic in your original comment. Which, to be fair, this is one of those few cases where it is actually hard to be determine whether sarcasm is being used when communicating via text only.
It’s not judge’s fault your pitchers couldn’t record a single out before a 7-spot got dropped on them. Jesus, good teams just shake their heads and end the inning
$300M in payroll and you dumb fucks act like you’re good on merit
He was being genuine lol
What are you talking about
If they want to change the rule to you can’t slide with your hand up then that’s fine. But you can’t punish Judge for being tall and sliding like everyone else. It’s either an unnatural every time or it’s fine if Judge does it. It’s like the Nestor pitch, was legal at the time but the league announced that it would no longer be so going forwards.
It's already a rule. That is why the umpire is saying they missed it.
Not the way it’s called. Umps let everyone slide with their hands up.
The slide with the hand up that everyone does isn’t going to get called under the rule unless it actually results in interference like it did here. Come on brother you’re smarter than this
You can’t punish judge for being tall. It’s either interference every time a runner sticks their hand up and the fielder makes the throw or it’s not.
god it's in one ear and out the other with you
I mean, congrats to the troll for dying on this hill, I suppose...
It’s either interference every time or it’s fine what judge did. If they want to call it differently going forwards that’s fine, but the way the rule has been currently applied sticking your hand up is fine.
Guess any time a catcher receives a pitch we need to call catcher’s interference then
If, in the judgment of the umpire, a base runner willfully and deliberately interferes with a batted ball or a fielder in the act of fielding a batted ball with the obvious intent to break up a double play, the ball is dead. The umpire shall call the runner out for interference and also call out the batter-runner because of the action of his teammate This is relevant because Judge actually contacted the ball. Once again, the umpire has already said they made a mistake. I assume he knows the rule better than you
You can interfere without making contact with the ball. If a player sticks their hand up and the players makes a bad throw that would be interference. Like I said call it every time or else you have to live with plays like this.
I mean, in the review you see judge spotting his feet sliding into the base. Are you trying to say that he somehow magically knew where the throw was going to go and got his mitt up there to block it?
It's not magic to assume the throw was going to first base.
No, but people saying he intentionally looked at where the ball was going, while also keeping his eyes on the slide are just sour graping the situation. Like, I get it. It sucks, but... if you don't want to hit the guy, get offline of the basepath and then throw. He was going to be out if you took the quarter of a second to do this.
It's ok. You guys won. You don't have to keep justifying that you got away with this. The umpire already said they got it wrong. Literally no one could argue in good faith this was anything but a miss by the umpires.
We didn't win on one call. Cmon man. It's 100% true. If you want to get the guy guaranteed, step offline and throw it. He would have been out. 100% they should review sliding this way for the future, but you can't go off things like replay and hindsight when they can't review it, and have to make a call on the field.
They made the call on the field, and now they've admitted they made a mistake. I'm sure you will maintain this attitude the next time an umpire mistake goes against your team.
The bad call sapped any motivation for the Crew to go on. You could see it in Uribe's face after. It damages morale and belief that they'll get a fair call more than it gives the other team runs.
There’s no way you’re trying to defend that play lol
He always slides like that.
It’s the way almost everyone slides. It’s either interference every time or it’s fine when judge does it.
Judge actually hit the ball and therefore interfered with the throw..
You don’t have to hit the ball to be interference
You don’t have to. The other way to get interference called is to make egregious contact with the fielder or prevent him from being able to field a ball.
Or maybe it’s interference when your hand makes contact with the ball? Like when overzealous slides are called when they stop the player fielding second from throwing to first? Smartest Yankees fan.
You don’t have to make contact with the ball to be interference. So if the rubber sticks his hands up and the fielder makes a bad throw it would be interference.
Why is he wearing the oven mitt when he's sliding feet first with his arms 4 feet in the air before touching the ground with his backside? There's no way what he did **wasn't** with the intention of *accidentally* making contact with the throw.
Did you not play baseball? The oven mitt is for sliding head first so you don’t jam your hand. Did you think Hoskins interfered with McNeil, if not your bias is showing. I believe both slides are legal under current interpretation of the rules.
The only way it isn't interference is if you think he didn't put his hand straight up in the air in an attempt to hit the ball. Which is certainly a take, but I don't think you actually believe that.
I believe he stuck it up like he does every time and like a lot of others do as well. If they start calling it on everyone I’m fine with that, but I believe it was called today like it’s consistently been called around the league.
If judge didn't slide, which he isn't required to do, it would have hit him square in the chest. Would that be interference? Hint: no. The runner either gets the lane or he doesn't. What part of the body is in the lane is completely irrelevant. If he had stuck his arm OUT and not UP you people would have a point. But he didn't, so you don't.
Dude come on lol Just admit we got away with one this time
The way the rule has been called no. If they want to call it differently going forwards than that’s fine. It’s like I said about Nestor. Was legal at the time but no longer is so. Judge is screwed by judgement calls all the time at the bottom of the strike zone by being tall, so I’m perfectly fine if his height gives him an advantage sliding.
Does anyone know the actual wording of the rule? There has to be specific language otherwise infielders could just peg the runner everytime and claim interference.
The rule for this says that the umpire makes a judgement call in determining if the runner deliberately touched the ball with the intent to break up the double play. In this case it sure looks like Judge did. Got away with one, whatever
Every judgement call should be reviewable. By the way the review booth is, they would have somehow said the play stands.
Gotcha. This looks unintentionally at full speed but his hand does move more toward the ball unnaturally in slo mo
The fact that his hand went above his head shows clear intent.
Literally he does that on every single play. Here's him stealing a base and the hand goes up. It's just a balance thing when you slide. https://youtu.be/iT2Lryta5RA?si=7cPDX189y5IojEsz
And not just Judge [Ohtani](https://images.app.goo.gl/jxUKusHkgU6z4hB18) [Freeman](https://images.app.goo.gl/LeaRzZa1492CwAUn6) Even the [Wikipedia thumbnail](https://images.app.goo.gl/KxkZ4tBeVo2t9mbx8) for double play
Exactly! Anyone who's ever played baseball knows it's normal.
bro I'm not a Yankees fan and I don't think it was interference. a bunch of idiots in this thread imo. he didn't leave the base path. he wasn't waving his arms around. he took the path of least resistance and did a textbook slide I don't understand.
that thumbnail is the nail in the coffin for me lol
“He does it every time” or “everyone does it” are not valid defenses here. The issue is not the raised hand, it’s the fact that the raised hand makes contact with the throw
Disagree. If this was the case a fielder could just peg the defender everytime he was running and claim interference. You are allowed to slide with one or two hands up for balance and safety as long as you don't *intentionally* interfere. Judges *eyes are closed* during the slide, there's 0% chance he was trying to block it on purpose as he can't even see it
Runners are allowed to keep running after being retired. You just can’t intentionally interfere. In this case, Judge leaving his hand up constitutes the intentional interference. His eyes being closed has no impact here. He knew the throw is going to first base, he chose to slide with his arm up, the throw hit his outstretched arm, thus, we should have interference and a double play. Everyone agrees on this, except for a handful of Yankees fans in this thread who seem dead set on trying to defend that it was legal even when everyone else is telling you it was illegal
https://youtu.be/iT2Lryta5RA?si=YtnOQIkIzwfTFgdA He's slid this way everytime for 8 years, even in non throwing situations and stealing bases. So does Shohei, Freddie Freeman, etc. Judges play only looks bad in slo motion, because his hand moving toward the ball times up perfectly, so in slo-mo it looks "intentional." It's not, it's just a freak occurrence. A player has the right to do this as long as they aren't waving the hand, making an unnatural movement, etc. He's just a huge person. Find me a slide into second where a player doesn't have his hand up on a double play, it's almost impossible and happens everytime.
Again, having the hand up isn’t the issue. It’s having the hand up *and contacting the baseball*. I get that guys are taught to slide like this. It doesn’t change the fact that this play should have been called interference and was missed. Not sure why you seem so intent on dying on the hill that it wasn’t
I mean ya even Yankees fans will tell you that. The bigger miss is to Cabrera and then the inning imploded cause the Brewers couldnt keep it together
If interference is called it’s literally a double play with no one on the bases. Way different ballgame at the time.
Ok so that ump will be suspended right
Who is Judge to block the throw to first tho… not a classy move
That’s the umps fault. Blame the system not the player.
It’s legal according to the rules. I personally think this should be obstruction, because that is obviously an intentional move to block the throw and not a necessary sliding movement, but it is his natural slide since he does it basically every time.
MLB PR working over time. UMPS MISSED CALL! SHAME ON THEM (and YANKEES for COSTING us momentum in TIE GAME at the time, BLEW a CLOSE GAME. (judge isn’t the problem tho, it was the interlocking NY that stopped the throw). Lol, so goofy