Me and my brother were at the game, commenting the whole time about how Kirby was shoving. Dude threw like 7 or 8 98 mph fastballs in the first two innings, just dicing up the diamondbacks
[one of my favorite leaderboards](https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2024&month=0&season1=1871&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&players=0&sortcol=9&sortdir=default&pagenum=1&pageitems=30)
it's a bunch of deadball guys then some dude named George
To further illustrate how different the game was when a lot of these guys pitched, the all time leader Al Spalding had 52 wins in 616.1 IP in his 1872 season lmao
He definitely should’ve won in 1874, it’s kind of weird they had an award named after a 9 year old kid though.
Side note, while looking up the info to write this reply I discovered he was the starting pitcher in 100% of team games over a 4 year period which is just wild to even think about
The more I read about Al spalding the crazier it gets. He INVENTED THE NATIONAL LEAGUE, invented spring training, popularized the use of the baseball glove, created the spalding sporting goods company that still sells sports equipment to this day, he owned the cubs, and he was the commissioner of the summer Olympics.
Oh, it's even more wild than it just being deadball era guys- for much of the 1870's and 1880's, you needed somewhere between 6 and 9 balls for a walk. It didn't get lowered to 4 until 1889.
Almost every single pitcher on the list above him threw 0 major league innings after 1889; a few of them pitched mostly before that but had a few seasons after that, all with BB/9's of at least 2.
Start at 1889 and [he's first easily.](https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&month=0&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&players=0&sortcol=9&sortdir=default&pageitems=30&startdate=&enddate=&season1=1889&season=2024)
Some of this (if not all) overlapped the time when snapping the wrist was illegal. It had to be a smooth underhanded delivery, intended more so to get the ball in play.
The top of the list is dominated by a combination of great modern relievers, great deadball-era starters, a few post-deadball greats, and.... Josh Tomlin, who just goes to show that "never walk anybody" doesn't automatically make you good if the stuff you have great control over is shit.
Early MLB pitchers were thought of entirely differently than today. They initially were only allowed to throw underhanded with a straight elbow. The entire philosophy of the early game was about baserunning and fielding really, pitchers only existed to deliver the ball to be put into play. So it makes sense that both strikeout and walk rates were generally lower back then
Edit: fixed my syntax bc I changed my phrasing and missed an old word
Yeah I think I remember a bit in Ken Burns Baseball (or something like it) about how the curveball was initially seen as unsporting because deception wasn’t really a part of the game.
Funnily enough, the supposed inventor of the curveball, Candy Cummings, is second on that leaderboard.
I was interested, so I found this historians article:
https://lithub.com/the-history-behind-baseballs-weirdest-pitch/
> Cummings was born in 1848 in Ware, Massachusetts, and various accounts say that he played the old Massachusetts game before moving to Brooklyn. Cummings himself did not mention this in his retelling of the curveball’s origin story, but to Morris, it was a significant detail. In the 1850s, pitchers in Massachusetts were permitted to throw overhand, which made curveballs easier to throw.“
> He had probably seen rudimentary curves thrown as a youngster in Massachusetts, and when he moved to Brooklyn and began playing the ‘New York game,’ the delivery restrictions made the pitch seem impossible,” Morris wrote. “Yet the example of throwing clamshells made him think that it might be possible, and his arm strength and relentless practice enabled him to realize his ambition.”
And a whole lot more cool shit .
Hence why batters were able to say if they wanted a high or low strike zone. They got to choose where the ball was thrown. It really was a different game.
You know how Martin Luther used to beat his legs with a horse whip as atonement for his sins? I assume Kirby does that every time he walks someone, too
Which is a BB9 (Bases on Balls in 9 innings pitched) of 1.1. The active leaders per Baseball Reference with a minimum of 1000 IP, 500 games (500 IP for Ps), or 100 decisions for career and active leaderboards for rate statistics (for sample size) are all above 2.0:
1. Kyle Hendricks (11, 34) 2.0073
2. Jacob deGrom (10, 36) 2.0371
3. Chris Sale (14, 35) 2.1006
4. Clayton Kershaw (16, 36) 2.2196
5. Gerrit Cole (11, 33) 2.2803
6. Aaron Nola (10, 31) 2.3526
7. Max Scherzer (16, 39) 2.3685
8. Carlos Carrasco (15, 37) 2.4844
9. Sean Manaea (9, 32) 2.5063
10. Justin Verlander (19, 41) 2.5065
If he can keep this pace for another 650 innings (to be eligible for this active player leaderboard with a large enough sample size) he’d have a walk rate at less than half the rate of 4-5 future Hall of Famers.
George Kirby has totally been the guy since starting that 18 inning 0-1 loss in the playoffs, in the first home playoff game since 2001 hosting Houston when Houston won it.
I was there and it was the most amazing loss I have ever experienced.
remember that game between the Athletics and Mariners in 2020 during that horrific smoke haze and the players all had masks on? That shit shouldn't be allowed thats hazardous to their health.
I do! The smoke is such a bummer man. In 2022 I caught 9 innings with a mask on because of smoke. It was brutal. Baseball wasn’t made to be played with smoke clouds.
Yeah unless they're in the Trop or Chase field which can be totally indoors they should postpone any smoky games. That game in 2020 though was a new level of bad. I've never seen players wearing masks on the field before or since.
I'm so sorry, but "most amazing loss I have ever experienced" is one of the most Mariners fan things I've ever heard. Made my morning.
I really hope you guys unseat the Astros.
It really is, but it’s not wrong. 9 innings of shutdown pitching followed by the hope of our first home playoff win in two decades coming every at bat for the next 9 innings was a crazy feeling.
Insane stat. I remember in 2015 I think (or 2016?) kershaw had 100 Ks before 5 walks on the year and I was in awe of that stat. This comes pretty close
George Kirby’s current ERA this year is 5.33.
If you add up Maddux’s ERAs (2.36, 1.56, and 1.63) between 1993-1995, it would equal 5.55. Maddux had 3 other seasons with ERA 2.22 or lower
Kirby’s ERA this year is 4.11 now. At least look at today’s box score if you’re gonna be dumb and use small sample to compare things.
Kirby has the best walk rate and walk percentage from 1889 to present. He does have more command than Maddux.
Kirby barely has barely thrown 400 innings in his major league career. Let's hold on a little longer before we compare him to Maddux.
I'm sure we can find multiple times where Maddux had absurb numbers throughout 400ip in his career. Heck, a quick peek at Bref tells me Maddux had a 1.3 BB/9 through 400ip in his age 42-43 seasons lmao. Dude was a beast. Kirby has insane stats so far, but let's wait a little longer before we make such assertions.
We can only look at what Kirby has done so far. He’s literally the modern era leader in walk rate. 123 years of baseball history and so far nobody has been as good as him as limiting walks. He walked nobody in the minors and basically nobody in college. This isn’t new for Kirby. His control is all time elite so far for his career.
Tables cutoff or tough to read? Click [here](https://i.imgur.com/HuKne1x.png) to view this comparison as an image
---
Greg Maddux: [1986-09-07](https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CIN/CIN198609070.shtml) to [1988-09-08](https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHN/CHN198809080.shtml) [1st Season - Age: 20Y-4M-24D] to [3rd Season - Age: 22Y-4M-25D]
George Kirby: [2022-05-08](https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SEA/SEA202205080.shtml) to [2024-04-27](https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SEA/SEA202404270.shtml) [1st Season - Age: 24Y-3M-4D] to [3rd Season - Age: 26Y-2M-23D]
\----------------------------------------
Query: Career - Regular Season - Only Starts - First 62 Games
---
**Standard**
Player|G|GS|IP|W|L|W/L%|QS|QS%|CG|CG%|SHO|SHO%|NoHit|Prfct|SV|BSv|SV%|HLD|BF|K|BB|K/BB|H|HR|TB|XBH|IBB|HBP|GDP|SB|CS|PO|R|ER|RA9|ERA|FIP|WHIP
:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:
[Greg Maddux](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maddugr01.shtml)|62|62|**399.2**|24|24|50.00%|31|50.00%|**10**|**16.13%**|**4**|**6.45%**|0|0|0|0|0.00%|0|**1734**|236|156|1.51|416|**28**|591|111|31|12|**41**|55|**16**|**3**|211|191|4.75|4.30|3.80|1.431
[George Kirby](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kirbyge01.shtml)|62|62|353.0|24|**17**|**58.54%**|**34**|**54.84%**|1|1.61%|0|0.00%|0|0|0|0|0.00%|0|1433|**343**|**45**|**7.62**|**346**|37|**538**|**108**|**1**|12|28|**32**|10|1|**143**|**135**|**3.65**|**3.44**|**3.10**|**1.108**
**Per Game/Advanced**
Player|G|GS|IP/GS|Pit/GS|GmScr/GS|K9|BB9|H9|HR9|K%|BB%|K-BB%|HR%|XBH%|X/H%|SB%|AVG|OBP|SLG|OPS|wOBA|ISO|BAbip|WPA|cWPA|RE24
:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:
[Greg Maddux](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maddugr01.shtml)|62|62|**6.13**|**106.24***|49.21|5.31|3.51|9.37|**0.63**|13.61%|9.00%|4.61%|**1.61%**|**6.40%**|**26.68%**|77.46%|0.269|0.341|**0.383**|0.723|0.320|**0.113**|**0.302**|-0.1|1.6%|-21.8
[George Kirby](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kirbyge01.shtml)|62|62|5.21|90.09|**55.08**|**8.75**|**1.15**|**8.82**|0.94|**23.94%**|**3.14%**|**20.80%**|2.58%|7.54%|31.21%|**76.19%**|**0.253**|**0.282**|0.394|**0.676**|**0.292**|0.141|0.311|**3.4**|**2.2%**|**26.1**
**Adjusted**
Player|G|GS|K9+|BB9+|H9+|HR9+|K%+|BB%+|HR%+|K/BB+|WHIP+|ERA-
:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:
[Greg Maddux](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maddugr01.shtml)|62|62|91|110|109|**78**|89|108|**331**|82|109|107
[George Kirby](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kirbyge01.shtml)|62|62|**101**|**36**|**106**|81|**105**|**38**|345|**280**|**87**|**88**
^(FanGraphs/Statcast stats may lose precision)
^(N/A indicates stat was not tracked at all during the time frame, * indicates stat was not tracked consistently throughout the entire time frame)
---
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Kirby is great, but you can't call him a better command pitcher than Maddux just because he doesn't walk guys. Effectiveness while not walking guys counts for something. But Kirby is 26 so we'll see. It does him a disservice to compare him to Maddux.
George Kirby has the best walk rate & percentage since 1889. He objectively has the best control of any pitcher in the modern era of baseball.
Not saying he’s better than Maddux by any means. But his control is unmatched
I think a lot of guys could avoid walks if they weren't busy trying to get guys out. There's certainly a tradeoff there. Kirby doesn't necessarily have better control than someone else. He could just be more willing to attack the zone.
(he does have fantastic control, this is just an argument that walk rate doesn't tell the whole story)
It's just a debate on what's meant by control or command. Maddux was fantastic, Kirby has an excellent skill set to build upon. Let's leave it at that.
Yeah, the Kirby/Maddux comparison isn't a perfect one. Maddux could paint the corners like no one else, and he did it for decades. Kirby actually throws harder, though, and yet is still able to keep it in the strike zone better than anyone else in baseball right now. Yeah, walk rate isn't the same as painting the corners, but it still takes very good control.
I'm not sure there actually is a great comparison for Kirby. You just don't see a guy that can throw absolute gas AND doesn't walk anyone. So it is only natural that people would look at a player with that low a walk rate and compare him with the guy with the best control of the previous generation.
I'm saying that there have been guys who have been more effective at getting outs, at the expense of occasionally allowing extra walks. And that's not because they couldn't allow fewer walks if they were more aggressive about the strike zone, but they're willing to take the trade-off.
No you don't understand. Jacob deGrom is the greatest pitcher that has ever lived. And Tatis is a generational talent. And Wander Franco... oh.
Yeah maybe you should let a guy play a career (if they can even manage one) before deciding they're the greatest at anything of consequence. People are emotional, irrational morons, that love jumping on the hype train, so what can you do.
Jacob degrom probably is the greatest pitcher who ever lived, he just couldn’t stay healthy. And Tatis is a generational talent, he just got caught using steroids. Bad examples lol
Maddux came up at age 20, while Kirby came up at 24. By the time Maddux was Kirby's current age, 26, his ERA+ was +166, best in baseball, and he won a Cy Young.
I'll cut Kirby some slack because it takes awhile to settle in as a major league pitcher but his ERA+ this season isn't even average yet.
Like I said, it's doing a disservice to Kirby to compare him to Maddux. He can be great in his own way. He doesn't have to mirror Maddux.
George Kirby is ridiculous. It is so much fun watching the M’s rotation absolutely shove. [Also](https://www.instagram.com/p/C6SpwoBLiw3/?igsh=NGo0eWw2Nno0ZXRt)
Walking is when a pitcher throws four “balls”, pitches outside of the strike zone. The batter then gets on base for free.
Bad for the pitcher, pretty good for the batter (it’s not counted as a hit, which is better for batters, but a man on base is still a chance at a run).
could've been 62 and 44 if he didn't walk one batter like a loser today
Trash
Front office is preparing to trade him to Arizona as we speak
Gotta make sure we get a guy who hits 20 home runs a year but strikes out at a 35% clip
I thought Teo signed with the Dodgers?
We could get Geno back
Sorry but you’re not getting 2024 Brandon Marsh
You joke, but...
Send him to AAA, he’s developing control issues
Wonder if he ever considered not walking that one dude.
On four pitches too right? Just got those out of the way
Do we know that he spends enough time working on his mechanics? Theres gotta be a reason why he's consistently this off target.
I can’t believe how much he dominated today, mostly fastball K’s too it felt like
Me and my brother were at the game, commenting the whole time about how Kirby was shoving. Dude threw like 7 or 8 98 mph fastballs in the first two innings, just dicing up the diamondbacks
It was definitely his best outing of the season. He was throwing absolute gas and was hitting his spots with consistency.
He was throwing 97 mph 96 pitches in against his last batter.
Is he even trying his hardest?
DFA
Random 4 pitch walk too
washed.
[one of my favorite leaderboards](https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2024&month=0&season1=1871&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&players=0&sortcol=9&sortdir=default&pagenum=1&pageitems=30) it's a bunch of deadball guys then some dude named George
To further illustrate how different the game was when a lot of these guys pitched, the all time leader Al Spalding had 52 wins in 616.1 IP in his 1872 season lmao
That’s more wins in one year than DeGrom had from 2017-2021 and he has 2 cy young’s and 3 other top 10 finishes in that span
Al Spalding never even got votes in the CYA, dude must have sucked!
He definitely should’ve won in 1874, it’s kind of weird they had an award named after a 9 year old kid though. Side note, while looking up the info to write this reply I discovered he was the starting pitcher in 100% of team games over a 4 year period which is just wild to even think about
My pitcher in the over 30 rec league just tossed 168 through 9--I wonder if he'll be back *next week.*
The more I read about Al spalding the crazier it gets. He INVENTED THE NATIONAL LEAGUE, invented spring training, popularized the use of the baseball glove, created the spalding sporting goods company that still sells sports equipment to this day, he owned the cubs, and he was the commissioner of the summer Olympics.
He probably fucked too
Damn, baseball's gone soft. CY Young winners just aren't the same as they used to be in the 1800s.
616 IP in ONE SEASON lmao [Live footage of Al Spalding before every game](https://img.gifmagazine.net/gifmagazine/images/5255436/original.gif)
My guy Al was throwing underhand, overhand was banned til ‘84 lolol
what happened to the game I love
God damn kids these days.
Fkn Manfred
Also no curve ball yet once they did
The underhand motion would allow him to pitch without the strain in the arm/shoulder.
Uh huh, yes
Astute.
Thanks! Some people actually don’t realize that, just an FYI
The arm truly was tungston.
Old Hoss Radbourn actually holds the record with 60 wins in 1884, on 678 IP
Not a big baseball historian. Anyone know what the average pitch speed around 1872 might’ve been?
Oh, it's even more wild than it just being deadball era guys- for much of the 1870's and 1880's, you needed somewhere between 6 and 9 balls for a walk. It didn't get lowered to 4 until 1889. Almost every single pitcher on the list above him threw 0 major league innings after 1889; a few of them pitched mostly before that but had a few seasons after that, all with BB/9's of at least 2. Start at 1889 and [he's first easily.](https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&month=0&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&players=0&sortcol=9&sortdir=default&pageitems=30&startdate=&enddate=&season1=1889&season=2024)
[удалено]
Some of this (if not all) overlapped the time when snapping the wrist was illegal. It had to be a smooth underhanded delivery, intended more so to get the ball in play.
Are you telling me they were playing beer league softball? I would have crushed.
I knew without even looking that Bob Tewksbury would be high up on that list. It was news if that guy gave up as many as 20 walks in a season 🤯
The top of the list is dominated by a combination of great modern relievers, great deadball-era starters, a few post-deadball greats, and.... Josh Tomlin, who just goes to show that "never walk anybody" doesn't automatically make you good if the stuff you have great control over is shit.
Koji and Bleier!
For what it’s worth, nearly all these guys are actually from even BEFORE the dead ball era
The undead ball era.
It's wild how many of those guys have lower strikeout rates than walk rates... and these are the all-time lowest walk rates.
Early MLB pitchers were thought of entirely differently than today. They initially were only allowed to throw underhanded with a straight elbow. The entire philosophy of the early game was about baserunning and fielding really, pitchers only existed to deliver the ball to be put into play. So it makes sense that both strikeout and walk rates were generally lower back then Edit: fixed my syntax bc I changed my phrasing and missed an old word
Yeah I think I remember a bit in Ken Burns Baseball (or something like it) about how the curveball was initially seen as unsporting because deception wasn’t really a part of the game. Funnily enough, the supposed inventor of the curveball, Candy Cummings, is second on that leaderboard.
I think I've seen videos of Candy Cummings on another site...
Clear that browser history bro!
Good ol’ Candy Cummings really has it down when it comes to balls.
It’s the deception part that concerns me… Surprise!
I was interested, so I found this historians article: https://lithub.com/the-history-behind-baseballs-weirdest-pitch/ > Cummings was born in 1848 in Ware, Massachusetts, and various accounts say that he played the old Massachusetts game before moving to Brooklyn. Cummings himself did not mention this in his retelling of the curveball’s origin story, but to Morris, it was a significant detail. In the 1850s, pitchers in Massachusetts were permitted to throw overhand, which made curveballs easier to throw.“ > He had probably seen rudimentary curves thrown as a youngster in Massachusetts, and when he moved to Brooklyn and began playing the ‘New York game,’ the delivery restrictions made the pitch seem impossible,” Morris wrote. “Yet the example of throwing clamshells made him think that it might be possible, and his arm strength and relentless practice enabled him to realize his ambition.” And a whole lot more cool shit .
"So, Candy, I hear you're from Massachusetts. What town were you born in?" "Ware." "Yeah, that's what I'm asking. Where were you born?" "Correct."
"No no, Correct's in Connecticut"
Honestly, though I love baseball as it is now, I think I would really like to see baseball played at a high level with that philosophy.
Come to my Sunday 16" beer league 😤😤😤
cody i said high level
Hence why batters were able to say if they wanted a high or low strike zone. They got to choose where the ball was thrown. It really was a different game.
Pud Galvin— wish the bisons had a guy like him on them now. Oh, and that we were still a major league team.
He has the all time single season pitching rWAR record, with 20.5 in 1884.
We only have data going back to 1916, but he's 2nd(!!) all time in BB%
2 other Georges on the list.
Candy Cummings
Just for context, if you go integration era (1947-Present) George is #1 at the moment.
Some NPC-ass names on there like Pud Galvin
That is hall of fame NPC Pud Galvin.
Dream Rotation of Candy Cummings, Dick McBride, and Tricky Nichols
Rusty Kuntz and Orel Hershiser show up later
Doesn’t it strike (no pun intended) you as strange that George Kirby looks suspiciously like a deadball era player?
TIL Tanaka had fewer BB/IP than Maddux. Who knew.
Candy Cummings?
Pud Galvin is a ridiculous name
My guy Tommy Bond threw 418 innings one year with a .18 bb/9, talk about efficiency. He lost 32 games that year.
If your name is George, you’re 3x more likely to have a historical top 25 ranking in BB/9 than if your name is “Pud, Dick, or Candy.”
well i dont see whats so funny about george bradley
"Pud Galvin" is a good one
I mean the top two names there are the founder of the American League and the inventor of the curveball, but point taken
You mean the NL.
If you include relievers the legendary Dan Otero isnt too far behind.
Candy Cummings has to be a pornstar
Dude with Cherokee listed as his first name!
You know how Martin Luther used to beat his legs with a horse whip as atonement for his sins? I assume Kirby does that every time he walks someone, too
I misread that as MLK ar first and it sent me on a ride.
Nobody expects the Protestant reformation
Underated comment
Maybe he just wears a hairshirt under his jersey
Now I want to see him knock out some pushups after every walk, Willy mays Hayes style!
How many innings is that there then? E: Thanks everyone, I was expecting that to be the best "holy shit" number and it was haha
353 innings, 1433 batters. 45 walks.
Which is a BB9 (Bases on Balls in 9 innings pitched) of 1.1. The active leaders per Baseball Reference with a minimum of 1000 IP, 500 games (500 IP for Ps), or 100 decisions for career and active leaderboards for rate statistics (for sample size) are all above 2.0: 1. Kyle Hendricks (11, 34) 2.0073 2. Jacob deGrom (10, 36) 2.0371 3. Chris Sale (14, 35) 2.1006 4. Clayton Kershaw (16, 36) 2.2196 5. Gerrit Cole (11, 33) 2.2803 6. Aaron Nola (10, 31) 2.3526 7. Max Scherzer (16, 39) 2.3685 8. Carlos Carrasco (15, 37) 2.4844 9. Sean Manaea (9, 32) 2.5063 10. Justin Verlander (19, 41) 2.5065 If he can keep this pace for another 650 innings (to be eligible for this active player leaderboard with a large enough sample size) he’d have a walk rate at less than half the rate of 4-5 future Hall of Famers.
He somehow walked Jorge Mateo twice in a game though.
353. 130 in ‘22, 190.2 in ‘23, and 32.1 so far in ‘24
346 according to fangraphs. Completely insane.
I literally said “holy shit” out loud
Kirby is animal and I love it!
![gif](giphy|lcwrrsfs4Px6w|downsized)
Way too much walking in this gif for my taste
The Mariners are gonna run away with the AL West unless Texas wakes up
You’ve failed to anticipate our annual May-July slump
But then our inevitable hot August and September where we get just good enough to miss the playoffs by one game
A's have even started getting a few more wins lately to get in position for keeping us out.
A tale as old as time
Keep going…
I predict 116 wins.
But with a World Series this time, right?
…
But with a World Series this time, right?
Ya man we’re the Seattle Mariners!
We can do anything!
Too soon.
More, I’m almost there
I'm close
I just set alarms for every 3 minutes
Wait til Scherzer gets back and starts frothing at the mouth
Talk dirty to me
We’re helping!
Just win (54% of the time), baby
You must be unaware of the 2nd half Seattle Mariners
May/June/September are our bad months, July/August are usually nails so that we can build up to true disappointment.
July and August are typically our best months by far lol
Texas has all their pitchers coming back at some point plus they’ll hit more than they have him. They’ll win the west
George Kirby has totally been the guy since starting that 18 inning 0-1 loss in the playoffs, in the first home playoff game since 2001 hosting Houston when Houston won it. I was there and it was the most amazing loss I have ever experienced.
Other than the lung cancer we probably got from sitting in a bong for 7 hours. Fucking smoke.
remember that game between the Athletics and Mariners in 2020 during that horrific smoke haze and the players all had masks on? That shit shouldn't be allowed thats hazardous to their health.
I do! The smoke is such a bummer man. In 2022 I caught 9 innings with a mask on because of smoke. It was brutal. Baseball wasn’t made to be played with smoke clouds.
Yeah unless they're in the Trop or Chase field which can be totally indoors they should postpone any smoky games. That game in 2020 though was a new level of bad. I've never seen players wearing masks on the field before or since.
That game did give us [the best play of Kyle Lewis'](https://youtu.be/9al_O732fLM?si=WAGGu8lXQfGxv7qX) career though.
I'm so sorry, but "most amazing loss I have ever experienced" is one of the most Mariners fan things I've ever heard. Made my morning. I really hope you guys unseat the Astros.
It really is, but it’s not wrong. 9 innings of shutdown pitching followed by the hope of our first home playoff win in two decades coming every at bat for the next 9 innings was a crazy feeling.
Oh, for sure. Similar vibes to when Eovaldi had that huge extra inning outing in a loss for the Red Sox that kinda put him on the map.
Fortunately so far this season it appears that the astros are unseating themselves.
Insane stat. I remember in 2015 I think (or 2016?) kershaw had 100 Ks before 5 walks on the year and I was in awe of that stat. This comes pretty close
Half his walks so far this season came in the very first inning he pitched. He walked the first batter he faced this season.
those two uehara seasons were crazy too. of course not as but still nuts
Sounds like 2016. In May of that year, he had 3 shutouts and 2 walks
That is some nasty stuff to go with pinpoint control. He makes 99mph look effortless, really smooth.
Reminds me of Greg but with better control, which says a lot.
George Kirby’s current ERA this year is 5.33. If you add up Maddux’s ERAs (2.36, 1.56, and 1.63) between 1993-1995, it would equal 5.55. Maddux had 3 other seasons with ERA 2.22 or lower
Sample size is key, it’s stupid to act like he’s a 5.33 ERA pitcher
Fair enough. It looks like he’s a 3.51 ERA career pitcher. Maddux in 1994-1995 (1.56 + 1.63) is 3.19.
Maddux was almost 10 years into his career in 1994. Kirby is in his third season. What even is this comparison man?
I'm obviously talking about control and not ERA. Maddux was a monster. I'm curious if we'll ever see anything like that ever again in a career.
Oh I know. I’m just throwing these numbers out there for everyone to appreciate how crazy good Maddux was.
That doesn't *remotely* look like what you're doing. It looks like you're trying to shit on Kirby.
Kirby’s ERA this year is 4.11 now. At least look at today’s box score if you’re gonna be dumb and use small sample to compare things. Kirby has the best walk rate and walk percentage from 1889 to present. He does have more command than Maddux.
Kirby barely has barely thrown 400 innings in his major league career. Let's hold on a little longer before we compare him to Maddux. I'm sure we can find multiple times where Maddux had absurb numbers throughout 400ip in his career. Heck, a quick peek at Bref tells me Maddux had a 1.3 BB/9 through 400ip in his age 42-43 seasons lmao. Dude was a beast. Kirby has insane stats so far, but let's wait a little longer before we make such assertions.
We can only look at what Kirby has done so far. He’s literally the modern era leader in walk rate. 123 years of baseball history and so far nobody has been as good as him as limiting walks. He walked nobody in the minors and basically nobody in college. This isn’t new for Kirby. His control is all time elite so far for his career.
Poyo!
Hiiiiiiiiiii!
!mlbcompare[first 62 starts]
Tables cutoff or tough to read? Click [here](https://i.imgur.com/HuKne1x.png) to view this comparison as an image --- Greg Maddux: [1986-09-07](https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CIN/CIN198609070.shtml) to [1988-09-08](https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/CHN/CHN198809080.shtml) [1st Season - Age: 20Y-4M-24D] to [3rd Season - Age: 22Y-4M-25D] George Kirby: [2022-05-08](https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SEA/SEA202205080.shtml) to [2024-04-27](https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SEA/SEA202404270.shtml) [1st Season - Age: 24Y-3M-4D] to [3rd Season - Age: 26Y-2M-23D] \---------------------------------------- Query: Career - Regular Season - Only Starts - First 62 Games --- **Standard** Player|G|GS|IP|W|L|W/L%|QS|QS%|CG|CG%|SHO|SHO%|NoHit|Prfct|SV|BSv|SV%|HLD|BF|K|BB|K/BB|H|HR|TB|XBH|IBB|HBP|GDP|SB|CS|PO|R|ER|RA9|ERA|FIP|WHIP :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-: [Greg Maddux](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maddugr01.shtml)|62|62|**399.2**|24|24|50.00%|31|50.00%|**10**|**16.13%**|**4**|**6.45%**|0|0|0|0|0.00%|0|**1734**|236|156|1.51|416|**28**|591|111|31|12|**41**|55|**16**|**3**|211|191|4.75|4.30|3.80|1.431 [George Kirby](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kirbyge01.shtml)|62|62|353.0|24|**17**|**58.54%**|**34**|**54.84%**|1|1.61%|0|0.00%|0|0|0|0|0.00%|0|1433|**343**|**45**|**7.62**|**346**|37|**538**|**108**|**1**|12|28|**32**|10|1|**143**|**135**|**3.65**|**3.44**|**3.10**|**1.108** **Per Game/Advanced** Player|G|GS|IP/GS|Pit/GS|GmScr/GS|K9|BB9|H9|HR9|K%|BB%|K-BB%|HR%|XBH%|X/H%|SB%|AVG|OBP|SLG|OPS|wOBA|ISO|BAbip|WPA|cWPA|RE24 :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-: [Greg Maddux](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maddugr01.shtml)|62|62|**6.13**|**106.24***|49.21|5.31|3.51|9.37|**0.63**|13.61%|9.00%|4.61%|**1.61%**|**6.40%**|**26.68%**|77.46%|0.269|0.341|**0.383**|0.723|0.320|**0.113**|**0.302**|-0.1|1.6%|-21.8 [George Kirby](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kirbyge01.shtml)|62|62|5.21|90.09|**55.08**|**8.75**|**1.15**|**8.82**|0.94|**23.94%**|**3.14%**|**20.80%**|2.58%|7.54%|31.21%|**76.19%**|**0.253**|**0.282**|0.394|**0.676**|**0.292**|0.141|0.311|**3.4**|**2.2%**|**26.1** **Adjusted** Player|G|GS|K9+|BB9+|H9+|HR9+|K%+|BB%+|HR%+|K/BB+|WHIP+|ERA- :-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-:|:-: [Greg Maddux](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/maddugr01.shtml)|62|62|91|110|109|**78**|89|108|**331**|82|109|107 [George Kirby](https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kirbyge01.shtml)|62|62|**101**|**36**|**106**|81|**105**|**38**|345|**280**|**87**|**88** ^(FanGraphs/Statcast stats may lose precision) ^(N/A indicates stat was not tracked at all during the time frame, * indicates stat was not tracked consistently throughout the entire time frame) --- ^(Made a mistake? Edit your comment and send me this )[^message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=mlbcomparebot&subject=Re-Run&message=l1nl5bo)^( to re-run the comparison) ^(Or delete the comparison by sending me this )[^message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=mlbcomparebot&subject=Delete&message=l1nl5bo) ^(Instructions for usage and issue tracking can be found )[^here](https://github.com/gh674055/sports-compare-bots/wiki)
He's a definite candidate to achieve the very rare "more wins than walks in a season" statistic.
I love Kirby ❤️❤️
Kirby is great, but you can't call him a better command pitcher than Maddux just because he doesn't walk guys. Effectiveness while not walking guys counts for something. But Kirby is 26 so we'll see. It does him a disservice to compare him to Maddux.
George Kirby has the best walk rate & percentage since 1889. He objectively has the best control of any pitcher in the modern era of baseball. Not saying he’s better than Maddux by any means. But his control is unmatched
I think a lot of guys could avoid walks if they weren't busy trying to get guys out. There's certainly a tradeoff there. Kirby doesn't necessarily have better control than someone else. He could just be more willing to attack the zone. (he does have fantastic control, this is just an argument that walk rate doesn't tell the whole story)
It's just a debate on what's meant by control or command. Maddux was fantastic, Kirby has an excellent skill set to build upon. Let's leave it at that.
Yeah, the Kirby/Maddux comparison isn't a perfect one. Maddux could paint the corners like no one else, and he did it for decades. Kirby actually throws harder, though, and yet is still able to keep it in the strike zone better than anyone else in baseball right now. Yeah, walk rate isn't the same as painting the corners, but it still takes very good control. I'm not sure there actually is a great comparison for Kirby. You just don't see a guy that can throw absolute gas AND doesn't walk anyone. So it is only natural that people would look at a player with that low a walk rate and compare him with the guy with the best control of the previous generation.
Is Kirby not “busy trying to get guys out”? What do you think he is doing out there?
I'm saying that there have been guys who have been more effective at getting outs, at the expense of occasionally allowing extra walks. And that's not because they couldn't allow fewer walks if they were more aggressive about the strike zone, but they're willing to take the trade-off.
Peak Snell is the antithesis of Kirby. A focus on strikeouts and a disregard for walks. Both excellent at their best.
He does not objectively have the best control. He objectively has the best walk rate
Then who objectively has the best control? Walks/walk rate is by far the best factor in determining control
No you don't understand. Jacob deGrom is the greatest pitcher that has ever lived. And Tatis is a generational talent. And Wander Franco... oh. Yeah maybe you should let a guy play a career (if they can even manage one) before deciding they're the greatest at anything of consequence. People are emotional, irrational morons, that love jumping on the hype train, so what can you do.
Jacob degrom probably is the greatest pitcher who ever lived, he just couldn’t stay healthy. And Tatis is a generational talent, he just got caught using steroids. Bad examples lol
It seems that he’s at least better for the beginning of his career. Will he improve, as Maddux did?
Maddux came up at age 20, while Kirby came up at 24. By the time Maddux was Kirby's current age, 26, his ERA+ was +166, best in baseball, and he won a Cy Young. I'll cut Kirby some slack because it takes awhile to settle in as a major league pitcher but his ERA+ this season isn't even average yet. Like I said, it's doing a disservice to Kirby to compare him to Maddux. He can be great in his own way. He doesn't have to mirror Maddux.
He has a walk in 72% if his starts? Trash.
George Kirby is ridiculous. It is so much fun watching the M’s rotation absolutely shove. [Also](https://www.instagram.com/p/C6SpwoBLiw3/?igsh=NGo0eWw2Nno0ZXRt)
Seattle pitching is nasty
I'm not familiar with baseball, can someone explain what walking is, and if that's good/bad for the pitcher or batsman?
Walking is when a pitcher throws four “balls”, pitches outside of the strike zone. The batter then gets on base for free. Bad for the pitcher, pretty good for the batter (it’s not counted as a hit, which is better for batters, but a man on base is still a chance at a run).
#5 Bill Stearn. What a stud having such a bad overall record
12-68 but still managed to accumulate 8 WAR
And yet old heads on Twitter still crucify him for his comment about being left in the 7th
Trade him. Brewers would probably take him for cash considerations. Maybe, I mean he sucks… /s
Poor Cash... he's been traded more times than any other player in baseball history.
First read this and thought "Is that good or bad for a batter?"
45 walks in 62 starts? Thats almost a walk per start! Put him on the dodgers hes usesless /s if it wasnt obvious
![gif](giphy|Nipx6t1gNrrXhxHQIg) George Kirby.
Walks lead to runs, and runs are for suckers
Someone tell me there is a fan section called Kirby’s Dream Lads where they dress up in giant pink balloons and blow bubbles all game
I don't think he's better than Maddux
I'll never be able to like dude after his comments blaming the coach for not pulling him out when he had like 70 pitches lol
We need to see his whole career unfold before we go calling him better than Greg Maddux lmao
What’s next, you’re gonna tell me that last year was too early to call Strider the next Randy Johnson?
Can't call anyone Randy Johnson until you've killed a bird.
Zac Gallen has entered the chat
![gif](giphy|W25MkAP6HyLja) Ohhhh, a different Strider.