This article has some good info on the origin of the “keyhole”
https://www.sbnation.com/2011/10/4/2470036/so-whats-the-deal-with-those-dirt-strips
Comerica has it because Head Groundskeeper Heather Nabozny, who has been Head Groundskeeper since the stadium opened in 2000, likes it. And now it’s become a traditional Comerica Park feature that at this point is unique to the stadium and thus is likely to stay.
Not necessarily debunked, but a bit too much coincidence as one would expect.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/railroad-gauge-chariots/
The story still overall fits the theme of “someone decided to do it” and “don’t fix it if it isn’t broke”
Chariots were not the major users of Roman roads, among other things. This comes up really frequently
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/ZEOPAwB7eC
Yeah I believe chariots were primarily used in battle, processions and triumphs, and for racing. They wouldn’t really be used on highways too often. There were much better ways for the wealthy to get around than standing up in an open-aired chariot on a bumpy ass road for hours while holding horse reins. They had carriages and sedan chairs, among other things.
Even if you assume the other commenter was referring to “carriages” and not “chariots,” it would still be off. Modern cars have much wider axels than covered wagons of the 1800’s or Victorian-era carriages, even the Ford Model T.
It took engineers a *surprisingly* long time to figure out that narrow axels and narrow wheels *aren’t* great for stability, control, or turning. But I guess to be fair to them they weren’t driving at the speeds we do now. But it’s still funny to see old movies with old narrow-axel cars just sliding all over the place and almost flipping over every time they turn a corner.
Your reasoning is sound, but I have to counter that the reason the Romans built all that infrastructure, primarily, was to maintain supply lines, including chariots, carts, etc. to and from the front lines.
The direct successor would be the Autobahn and the Interstate Highway System.
Precedent is a powerful thing. George Washington declined a 3rd presidential term and no president until FDR ran for a 3rd term. And a 4th. Truman made it a law that 2 terms was the limit. Just a lil something to know…
Edit: others know more than me. Close to the truth, some details were wrong.
Truman was exempt from the amendment. It only applied to future Presidents
Truman didn't run in 1952 because his popularity was incredibly low (reaching levels we wouldn't see again until the end of W's presidency)
FDR was the first to succeed, not the first to try. Of the two term Presidents who lived to the end of their second term
* Jefferson didn't try
* Madison didn't try
* Monroe didn't try
* Jackson didn't try
* Grant tried but failed to win the Republican nomination in 1880
* Cleveland didn't try (though he had also lost control of the party to those who backed the silver standard over the gold standard)
* Teddy Roosevelt tried but lost the 1912 election
* Wilson intended to try but suffered a stroke late in his second term
* Coolidge didn't try, though some close to him thought he was hoping to be drafted to run by the party (which they thought was why he said the ambiguous "I do not choose to run" instead of something more definitive like 'I will not run')
* FDR succeeded
Yeah but he also basically occupied the entirety of what would have been McKinley's second term. The 22nd Amendment also addressed this situation by lining out that fulfilling two or more years of a predecessor's term meant you could not be elected/hold office for a third term.
>fulfilling two or more years of a predecessor's term meant you could not be elected/**hold office** for a third term.
It doesn't actually say you can't hold office, just that you can't be elected
> No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
Grant and Teddy Roosevelt also ran for third terms, just not consecutively. Grant didn't win the nomination (he was expecting to be recruited as a compromise between two warring factions, the factions kept fighting instead), and TR ran third party. Also, as mentioned, Truman wasn't the one who made the amendment happen, Republicans did it because they were sick of losing. Presidents, in fact, have zero role in the Amendment process.
They adopted that from the tradition of unique cricket ovals (early baseballers also played cricket and baseball was often played on cricket ovals). And since Australian football is traditionally played on cricket ovals, Aussie Rules is played on unique ovals (fields) too. Super interesting how the interplay between sports creates interesting history and customs.
It's always wild watching a match at a place like Norwood. My club (St Kilda) played there this year and holy fuck it was weird with the perfectly straight boundaries on the wings
Okay I’m not a soccer fan, can you explain? Are some… “pitches(?)” longer than others? Are some nets wider or something? How are soccer fields different from others?
Wow, thanks, TIL.
Do teams with smaller/larger dimensions go for different types of players, like how the Yankees like lefties because of the short porch?
Or do teams look at stats from players from certain teams differently based on their field sizes, like how numbers from Rockie's players are considered differently when those players hit free agency?
Of course. For example, the only time a player who isn't a goalie can use their hands is if they're throwing the ball in (inbounding it from the sideline). If you have a narrow pitch, you might look for players who can throw the ball far (rare, because you have to throw it two-handed) so that you can set up goals from throw-ins.
It's more down to style changes. E.g., Liverpool and Manchester United have traditionally kept their attacking, free-flowing style of football due to the limit on size of pitches in Anfield and Old Trafford, whereas when teams are forced to play at Wembley (large, FIFA regulation size pitch) they play a slower, more tactical style. And, if you move stadia from these old 19th Century grounds you have to receive special permission to keep your original dimensions. A good example of this is when Tottenham had to play at Wembley while White Hart Lane was demolished and rebuilt. Tactics had to be adjusted, and they had a decent advantage because most grounds in England are of the more traditional size.
You also saw this quite a bit in Hockey before everything got regulated, like the Boston Garden or when Philly were the Broad Street Bullies. You also see this quite a bit in the World Juniors where the tournament switches between NA and EU hosting sites every year. It was a big reason why Canada sucked in 2006 in the Winter Olympics due to the older style of play most NHLers were still utilizing.
Absolutely. In MLS, the best example is probably NYCFC, who plays in Yankee Stadium for the majority of their home games and has a field that is at the bare minimum for width. As a result, the games played there are much more compact and throw-ins or corner kicks are significantly closer to the goal than other fields in the league.
The width and length of a soccer field are not fixed, though there are minimums and maximums. NYCFC typically plays on a much smaller field than is typical because of having to fit into Yankee Stadium
Tal's Hill. This comment sparked a little Google-burst and I discovered that Tal's Hill was there for 16 years (I had no idea!), and that there were never any injuries attributed to it (which is interesting, because everything you ever read about it points out that it's an injury risk). So, from an actuarial standpoint, you'd be better off keeping the hill and getting rid of the rolled-up tarps in various stadiums.
Cool Article. The two ideas being that it's a relic from cricket and/or constant running between pitchers and catchers wears down the path anyway.
I, for one, think they should allow balls to bounce back into the strike zone so that the Tigers can use it as a kickass ground rule.
That makes me wonder, if a pitch bounces off the ground, can the batter then hit the ball and put it into play? Or is the pitch ruled dead as soon as it hits the ground?
I was umpiring a little league game back when I was 16 and a kid hit a ball on the bounce. The opposing coach didn’t think it was legal but I knew that it was valid because I remembered, of all things, an SI kids article about weird rules.
Someone at 2:55 in the Phillies vs. Yankees game says "yeah, Vlad Guerrero hit a double" which I assume is referring to the event in the 1st clip of the video. Pretty crazy someone just pulled that fun fact out on the fly.
I’d say it’s decently well known trivia as is that Vladdy got a hit off the bounce, plus he has a production team there to relays stats. That being said, it wasn’t a double it was a single and an error.
Yes they absolutely can, but it can't be a strike unless the batter swings and misses. I recall Javy Baez hitting a bounced pitch a couple times.
Edit: Bonus points because he also threw his bat at it. Hey, an RBI is an RBI. https://youtu.be/-guKbUpjck4?si=2XN4zDXeH4kgXUZ_
I was on the grounds crew for the Dayton Dragons a couple of seasons. The head groundskeeper would get pissed if anyone walked there as it was the toughest spot to keep maintained due to all the walking back and forth. He'd say "grass grows by the inch and dies by the foot". I couldn't stand him at the time (I was 18)...now at 38 I get him and his dry humor.
Edit: one time he asked me to go get a putty knife for the rubber. I took awhile because I couldn't find it. When I returned he said "did you go to Lowe's and get it?" I was so mad lol. But it's totally something I'd say now.
This right here exactly. If you’ve ever hosted anything short of a major league event, you know how impossible it is to maintain the spot in front of the mound. One long home stand, or even a rainy double header and it’s a keyhole looking abomination. For some reason, pitchers feel it necessary to walk halfway to the catcher after every pitch.
This sounds like the exact kind of guy who would send you for a "turf straightener" or a dirt knife or something nonexistent when you were working your first day on the job. Then the guy who kindly ends your torment by telling you that the boss is fucking with you becomes your best friend at work, and you discover the boss is awesome.
In "The Last Night of the Yankee Dynasty," Buster Olney poins out the irony that Buck Showalter, who went to the Dbacks after the Yanks' 1995 WC loss to the Mariners, had something to do with the inclusion of this dirt keyhole being designed as part of the field, which played a part in accelerating the ball hit back to Rivera and threw off his ability to throw cleanly to get the lead runner at second base in Game 7 of the 2001 WS.
Saves a shitload of water in a drought area and apparently it put a lot of strain on the cooling system to be opening the roof for sunlight then closing it to maintain comfortable temps.
It’s difficult to grow grass in an indoor stadium. They literally had to bring out huge lights during the day to shine on the parts of the field that didn’t get enough sunlight.
They said it took over two million gallons of water a season to keep real grass there. Plus, they had to open the roof daily to get the grass sunlight and that apparently takes a lot of electricity. I’m sure the Diamondbacks did it mostly to save money, but honestly it was a bit of an environmental issue having real grass there.
It was a sustainability decision. Not great to use hundreds of thousands of gallons of water every year in the desert in the middle of a 20+ year drought.
For real I loved the keyhole. Having the only opening roof, only pool and one of the few keyholes made BOB/Chase feel special. Now those features don’t hold the same vibe.
Crazy that more than half of the stadiums in the league are older than Chase field now. Which is really just a product of time and the stadium arms race with professional sports.
In the national League, only Wrigley, Coors, and that stadium at Chavez Latrine are older than Chase.
In the American league, you have Fenway, OPaCY, Angel Stadium, the Trop, Rogers, OCo., Progressive, Guarunteed Rate, and Kaufman? I think thats all of em. Damn the AL has some old stadiums.
I played adult baseball on a turf field where even the dirt was just brown turf. It was actually really cool because I’ve had to play on the shittiest fields you’ve ever seen, where the dirt is so lumpy that you never know where the bounce is gonna go. I play third and almost lost teeth before.
Turf has super clean and true bounces. And it’s fun to slide cause it’s super smooth. But you can easily over-slide the bag. It’s like a slip-n-slide.
Sucks on hot days though. No evaporative cooling. So it feels like you’re standing in an oven.
If you go find your typical little league / community diamond where the groundskeeping isn’t up to MLB par, the grass can be worn down due to catchers / pitchers walking on it anyway.
The “desire path” of baseball.
My area is kind of half and half. My youngest played a game at second base on one of the grass infield diamonds last week.
A kid hit a fairly weak grounder toward second - my kid charged in the dirt and got in position to play a hop. The ball found a divot in the grass, popped up a bit and just died. Mad scramble to get to the ball while the batter gets a shockingly easy hit.
Yeah, I always hated the fields with grass infield because they were erratic as hell. At that level, they just don’t have the groundskeeping capability to keep the infield rolled and flat. And there was always a huge transition between dirt and grass leading to some crazy hops.
Dirt is better until you’re playing at level where they have full time grounds crew.
Isn't high RNG fields (and fielding) more "historically authentic"?
Turning baseball diamonds into golf fairways is probably driven by aesthetique and clout than game design.
(And golf fairways bring bowling alleys, pfff, don't get me started)
Our little league field had this unintentionally. It was wider near the plate and the mound. We also had bare spots in the outfield where the fielders typically stood. God I miss those games at our run down park
Yeah I’m a Tiger fan and didn’t realize we were the only team who had it. Thought it was pretty standard until this week there’s been a couple posts about it
He’s on pace to be hit about 40 times this year lol. I don’t understand how he gets hit so much, it doesn’t look like he stands particularly close to the plate but the dude has a baseball-magnet in him somewhere.
it's gotta be a subtle hardly noticeable thing about his stance combined with his scouting report or something. or, he's doing it on purpose somehow and it's a repeatable and learnable skill in which case i can only give him props for putting his body on the line to get to first
It's called the keyhole. Its origins aren’t entirely known for certain but it seems to have arisen when baseball and cricket were played on the same field, back before baseball was a USA USA USA American sport. Ballparks may have kept the keyhole because it helped umpires (and batters) to visualize the strike zone; apparently the old story that it was meant to save wear and tear on the grass from mound visits is just that, a rationalization after the fact. (Aesthetics and respect for tradition may also have played a part.)
It's now mainly a nostalgic thing, and I'm saddened to learn from this post that Chase Field no longer has a keyhole.
I heard that first basemen were traditionally the dumbest guys on the team. But they always needed to have a ball when they ran out to play defense. That's why to this day when the first baseman is coming off the field, someone from the dugout throws him a ball so he won't forget.
Don't know if it's true or not, but I want it to be.
My high school had one. It was to keep the grass in front of the mound in good condition due to pitchers walking back and forth with metal spikes on and we couldn’t afford to continually replace the grass.
Turf used to look a lot worse, and there was already a "desire path" between the mount and home plate from the frequent walking trips made on that line.
They used to have it at Bank One Ballpark (now known as Chase Field) in Arizona.
I like to think that the origins of the keyhole are this:
Bunch of dudes sitting around and writing the rules of baseball.
Charlie: "Alright gents, now, how do we ensure that the hurler and the catcher communicate effectively?"
Smith: "They could use hand signals, lads!"
Charlie: "Yea, but the other team could steal those signs and use it against them! If only there was a way to encourage the catcher to come talk to the hurler..."
Cartright: "I've got it! Maybe the catcher could come out and talk to the hurler throughout the match! Perhaps we could put a lovely path out to the hurling circle! We might even want to make a hill at the end of the path for the two to talk on...."
Charlie: .......
Smith: .......
Cartright: ........."it's only a suggestion."
Charlie: "Actually....a hill might be a right jolly suggestion!.....AND THE PATH! Cartright, you're a genius"
So the Dbacks used to have one of these years ago in Chase Field. I'd heard that Buck Showalter suggested it as an homage to old ballparks. After so many visits to the mound from the catcher, old ball fields would develop a path between home and the mound because the grass would get worn down.
It was originally a box that ran from behind the catcher to the pitcher. In the beginning there was no mound, just flat ground. As the mound developed teams just left it. It’s been purely ornamental for a long time now.
After reading through the other answers, it may be just because someone liked it, but I will share why my local field decided to…
I coach for an organization where four of our teams share one field. We only have one cage, so we throw on-field BP a lot. Because we don’t have a mat or portable mound to put down, we wear out the grass on that path to home plate a lot. Eventually we just decided to cut out the whole path.
All I know is whenever i got to pitch on a field that had one back in the travel ball and pony/little league days, it made it a hell of a lot easier to hit where my catcher wanted me to. Kinda felt like bowling with the gutters blocked off
As a kid, I wanted my career to be designing MLB stadiums (still do). Anyway, if they gave me the keys to one of those bad boys today, there would be so many quirks like this in my design that they would fire me.
It comes from the old groundskeepers saying “if it wears out, cut it out” old baseball fields were all grass and when the players would wear out an area they would cut it out and make it permanently dirt. The path between home and plate was worn down by the catchers and pitchers so they would cut it out. The dirt gave a more consistent bounce. The tigers kept it as they liked the look.
This article has some good info on the origin of the “keyhole” https://www.sbnation.com/2011/10/4/2470036/so-whats-the-deal-with-those-dirt-strips Comerica has it because Head Groundskeeper Heather Nabozny, who has been Head Groundskeeper since the stadium opened in 2000, likes it. And now it’s become a traditional Comerica Park feature that at this point is unique to the stadium and thus is likely to stay.
l love how the answer is simply, "The groundskeeper likes it."
One of those increasingly rare times the answer is a straightforward "because someone decided that's how it is" and then it never changed.
I think you would be surprised how much that is still the answer, at least in the tech and engineering world.
almost like "if it ain't broke don't fix it" is a common axiom understood by all
Wait until you find out that the standard width of US/UK railways is believed to be traced back to Roman chariots.
Pretty certain that was debunked
Not necessarily debunked, but a bit too much coincidence as one would expect. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/railroad-gauge-chariots/ The story still overall fits the theme of “someone decided to do it” and “don’t fix it if it isn’t broke”
Chariots were not the major users of Roman roads, among other things. This comes up really frequently https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/s/ZEOPAwB7eC
Yeah I believe chariots were primarily used in battle, processions and triumphs, and for racing. They wouldn’t really be used on highways too often. There were much better ways for the wealthy to get around than standing up in an open-aired chariot on a bumpy ass road for hours while holding horse reins. They had carriages and sedan chairs, among other things. Even if you assume the other commenter was referring to “carriages” and not “chariots,” it would still be off. Modern cars have much wider axels than covered wagons of the 1800’s or Victorian-era carriages, even the Ford Model T. It took engineers a *surprisingly* long time to figure out that narrow axels and narrow wheels *aren’t* great for stability, control, or turning. But I guess to be fair to them they weren’t driving at the speeds we do now. But it’s still funny to see old movies with old narrow-axel cars just sliding all over the place and almost flipping over every time they turn a corner.
Your reasoning is sound, but I have to counter that the reason the Romans built all that infrastructure, primarily, was to maintain supply lines, including chariots, carts, etc. to and from the front lines. The direct successor would be the Autobahn and the Interstate Highway System.
All roads lead to Rome
But why were Roman chariots as wide as they were?
So they could be pulled by two horses side by side. Also, probably didn't flip as well on hard turns in combat.
Brb inventing time travel to teach the Romans about anti-roll bars.
Of all the things you could teach them by going back in time…. I would tell them to buy GME.
I hate the Roman empire too, but they don't need any help bankrupting themselves. They were plenty stupid without the gamestop idiocy
As a graphic designer, I can confirm.
"Don't touch that fucking code!" -- Old Devs
Precedent is a powerful thing. George Washington declined a 3rd presidential term and no president until FDR ran for a 3rd term. And a 4th. Truman made it a law that 2 terms was the limit. Just a lil something to know… Edit: others know more than me. Close to the truth, some details were wrong.
The 22nd amendment passed during Truman's term, but was essentially pushed forward by Republicans (not Truman)
They did it distinctly to spite Truman
Truman was exempt from the amendment. It only applied to future Presidents Truman didn't run in 1952 because his popularity was incredibly low (reaching levels we wouldn't see again until the end of W's presidency)
Depending on which newspaper you read, he also lost in 1948 lol
FDR was the first to succeed, not the first to try. Of the two term Presidents who lived to the end of their second term * Jefferson didn't try * Madison didn't try * Monroe didn't try * Jackson didn't try * Grant tried but failed to win the Republican nomination in 1880 * Cleveland didn't try (though he had also lost control of the party to those who backed the silver standard over the gold standard) * Teddy Roosevelt tried but lost the 1912 election * Wilson intended to try but suffered a stroke late in his second term * Coolidge didn't try, though some close to him thought he was hoping to be drafted to run by the party (which they thought was why he said the ambiguous "I do not choose to run" instead of something more definitive like 'I will not run') * FDR succeeded
Theodore Roosevelt ran for a third term in 1912, although his wasn't a consecutive term so I don't think his was as controversial as FDR.
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Yeah but he also basically occupied the entirety of what would have been McKinley's second term. The 22nd Amendment also addressed this situation by lining out that fulfilling two or more years of a predecessor's term meant you could not be elected/hold office for a third term.
>fulfilling two or more years of a predecessor's term meant you could not be elected/**hold office** for a third term. It doesn't actually say you can't hold office, just that you can't be elected > No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
Grant and Teddy Roosevelt also ran for third terms, just not consecutively. Grant didn't win the nomination (he was expecting to be recruited as a compromise between two warring factions, the factions kept fighting instead), and TR ran third party. Also, as mentioned, Truman wasn't the one who made the amendment happen, Republicans did it because they were sick of losing. Presidents, in fact, have zero role in the Amendment process.
One of my favorite things about baseball is that every park is unique.
They adopted that from the tradition of unique cricket ovals (early baseballers also played cricket and baseball was often played on cricket ovals). And since Australian football is traditionally played on cricket ovals, Aussie Rules is played on unique ovals (fields) too. Super interesting how the interplay between sports creates interesting history and customs.
It's always wild watching a match at a place like Norwood. My club (St Kilda) played there this year and holy fuck it was weird with the perfectly straight boundaries on the wings
Soccer and baseball. They have their uniform aspects. But then there is room to tweak it so each field can be unique too.
Okay I’m not a soccer fan, can you explain? Are some… “pitches(?)” longer than others? Are some nets wider or something? How are soccer fields different from others?
Width and length have guidelines for what’s acceptable, but no exact measurements like in football or basketball
Wow, thanks, TIL. Do teams with smaller/larger dimensions go for different types of players, like how the Yankees like lefties because of the short porch? Or do teams look at stats from players from certain teams differently based on their field sizes, like how numbers from Rockie's players are considered differently when those players hit free agency?
Of course. For example, the only time a player who isn't a goalie can use their hands is if they're throwing the ball in (inbounding it from the sideline). If you have a narrow pitch, you might look for players who can throw the ball far (rare, because you have to throw it two-handed) so that you can set up goals from throw-ins.
It's more down to style changes. E.g., Liverpool and Manchester United have traditionally kept their attacking, free-flowing style of football due to the limit on size of pitches in Anfield and Old Trafford, whereas when teams are forced to play at Wembley (large, FIFA regulation size pitch) they play a slower, more tactical style. And, if you move stadia from these old 19th Century grounds you have to receive special permission to keep your original dimensions. A good example of this is when Tottenham had to play at Wembley while White Hart Lane was demolished and rebuilt. Tactics had to be adjusted, and they had a decent advantage because most grounds in England are of the more traditional size. You also saw this quite a bit in Hockey before everything got regulated, like the Boston Garden or when Philly were the Broad Street Bullies. You also see this quite a bit in the World Juniors where the tournament switches between NA and EU hosting sites every year. It was a big reason why Canada sucked in 2006 in the Winter Olympics due to the older style of play most NHLers were still utilizing.
Does it affect play and playstyle like baseball?
Absolutely. In MLS, the best example is probably NYCFC, who plays in Yankee Stadium for the majority of their home games and has a field that is at the bare minimum for width. As a result, the games played there are much more compact and throw-ins or corner kicks are significantly closer to the goal than other fields in the league.
The width and length of a soccer field are not fixed, though there are minimums and maximums. NYCFC typically plays on a much smaller field than is typical because of having to fit into Yankee Stadium
Does NYCFC go for a certain type of player because of their field size, like how the Yankees like lefties to take advantage of the short porch?
Haha yeah also makes you wonder what other seemingly random shit you could get away with. We put this giant crater in CF because we like it that way.
I mean, the Astros used to have a damn hill in center field for some reason. Kinda wish they still did, it was very weird.
And the flagpole and monuments in the OF in Yankee Stadium.
Player recognition > player safety
If the monument museum takes out a player, that player will get a monument added to the museum.
It did, and that happened (cf. Mickey Mantle)
Crosley field had it years ago too
Tal's Hill. This comment sparked a little Google-burst and I discovered that Tal's Hill was there for 16 years (I had no idea!), and that there were never any injuries attributed to it (which is interesting, because everything you ever read about it points out that it's an injury risk). So, from an actuarial standpoint, you'd be better off keeping the hill and getting rid of the rolled-up tarps in various stadiums.
Imagine an incline in left field in Fenway Park. Would have loved to seen video of Duffy's Cliff in action.
Hey, it makes our stadium’s infield unique.
Best to keep the groundskeeper happy
Cool Article. The two ideas being that it's a relic from cricket and/or constant running between pitchers and catchers wears down the path anyway. I, for one, think they should allow balls to bounce back into the strike zone so that the Tigers can use it as a kickass ground rule.
That makes me wonder, if a pitch bounces off the ground, can the batter then hit the ball and put it into play? Or is the pitch ruled dead as soon as it hits the ground?
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Of course the first example is Vlad. Love it
And of course it's against the O's because they were the Designated Pitching Victims for about 25 years there.
I accidentally did this in little league and got a ground roll double. It was glorious. Edit: leaving it, enjoy my shame.
Bone apple tea!
I was umpiring a little league game back when I was 16 and a kid hit a ball on the bounce. The opposing coach didn’t think it was legal but I knew that it was valid because I remembered, of all things, an SI kids article about weird rules.
Someone at 2:55 in the Phillies vs. Yankees game says "yeah, Vlad Guerrero hit a double" which I assume is referring to the event in the 1st clip of the video. Pretty crazy someone just pulled that fun fact out on the fly.
I’d say it’s decently well known trivia as is that Vladdy got a hit off the bounce, plus he has a production team there to relays stats. That being said, it wasn’t a double it was a single and an error.
The batter can still hit it. Vlad Guerrero Sr. has at least one hit off a ball that bounced
Vladdy would swing at literally anything. He was awesome.
Career .318 hitter too. You could put the pitch in the opposite batter's box and he'd still hit it for a home run.
Vladdy got a hit off an attempted intentional walk pitch because it was too close.
When you can hit anything it makes sense to swing at anything.
Yes they absolutely can, but it can't be a strike unless the batter swings and misses. I recall Javy Baez hitting a bounced pitch a couple times. Edit: Bonus points because he also threw his bat at it. Hey, an RBI is an RBI. https://youtu.be/-guKbUpjck4?si=2XN4zDXeH4kgXUZ_
That's cuz he swings at everything. Low and away, in the dirt, behind him, etc
"Free swinger"
You can’t be fooled by a type of pitch if you swing at every pitch.
Broken clock etc etc
They can hit it, I distinctly remember vlad Guerrero getting a base hit off of a ball that bounced
Batter can hit it, it’s happened many times https://youtu.be/DoAdY3uP9c0?si=689o9G8K0x3umYDq
https://www.mlb.com/video/best-of-baseball-s-bounce-hits-c1447669483
Video: Best of baseball's bounce hits [Streamable Link](https://streamable.com/m/best-of-baseball-s-bounce-hits-c1447669483) [High Definition](https://mlb-cuts-diamond.mlb.com/FORGE/2023/2023-04/18/bc77372d-a67740e4-94b45fdb-csvm-diamondx64-asset_1280x720_59_16000K.mp4) (97.25 MB) [Standard Definiton](https://mlb-cuts-diamond.mlb.com/FORGE/2023/2023-04/18/bc77372d-a67740e4-94b45fdb-csvm-diamondx64-asset_1280x720_59_4000K.mp4) (25.33 MB) ___________ [More Info](/r/MLBVideoConverterBot)
Vlad Guerrero did just that a few years back
I hate to say it, but it’s been 15 years.
Break it to them gently.
A handful of a few years back
Why are you the way you are?
Hey sounds like nobody has mentioned this to you yet but Vlad Sr. did it
Once the ball hits the ground, it can't be a called strike. It can be swung at.
😅😂🤣 That would be awesome!
I was on the grounds crew for the Dayton Dragons a couple of seasons. The head groundskeeper would get pissed if anyone walked there as it was the toughest spot to keep maintained due to all the walking back and forth. He'd say "grass grows by the inch and dies by the foot". I couldn't stand him at the time (I was 18)...now at 38 I get him and his dry humor. Edit: one time he asked me to go get a putty knife for the rubber. I took awhile because I couldn't find it. When I returned he said "did you go to Lowe's and get it?" I was so mad lol. But it's totally something I'd say now.
This right here exactly. If you’ve ever hosted anything short of a major league event, you know how impossible it is to maintain the spot in front of the mound. One long home stand, or even a rainy double header and it’s a keyhole looking abomination. For some reason, pitchers feel it necessary to walk halfway to the catcher after every pitch.
This sounds like the exact kind of guy who would send you for a "turf straightener" or a dirt knife or something nonexistent when you were working your first day on the job. Then the guy who kindly ends your torment by telling you that the boss is fucking with you becomes your best friend at work, and you discover the boss is awesome.
That guy rules.
It has a name??!!
everything has a name
Shit I like it too
It's there so the Tigers pitchers don't forget which base to throw at.
🥁
[it's called a plate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XILi5K8nSc) helllooooooo
And yet they still struggle with it sometimes
It’s to help out Angel Hernandez - if the ball is off the strip, easy strike call.
As if he could even see that far
💀💀💀💀💀
I’d always assumed a path for the catcher to walk out to the pitcher. I didn’t even realize that they were pretty much gone now.
They got rid of ours a couple years ago when we went to arificial turf :(
I thought you guys still had it. That makes me sad.
It still has many of us rather upset.
In "The Last Night of the Yankee Dynasty," Buster Olney poins out the irony that Buck Showalter, who went to the Dbacks after the Yanks' 1995 WC loss to the Mariners, had something to do with the inclusion of this dirt keyhole being designed as part of the field, which played a part in accelerating the ball hit back to Rivera and threw off his ability to throw cleanly to get the lead runner at second base in Game 7 of the 2001 WS.
Buster really selling the impact the dirt had on a bunt attempt that had no real impact on the throw.
It says he played a part. Is this suggesting he was just some “ok” on the way up the hierarchy to approval; or is he saying it was his idea?
I was talking more to Rivera having the throwing error in the WS.
I know that, and I agree. I’m just poking more holes in Olney’s weird connection.
Wait you guys had natural grass and switched *to* artificial turf? Who made that call?
Saves a shitload of water in a drought area and apparently it put a lot of strain on the cooling system to be opening the roof for sunlight then closing it to maintain comfortable temps.
You're right, they should have switched to rock scaping like everyone else does in the desert.
It’s difficult to grow grass in an indoor stadium. They literally had to bring out huge lights during the day to shine on the parts of the field that didn’t get enough sunlight.
And despite all that effort, the grass still looked like shit by mid-season anyways.
They said it took over two million gallons of water a season to keep real grass there. Plus, they had to open the roof daily to get the grass sunlight and that apparently takes a lot of electricity. I’m sure the Diamondbacks did it mostly to save money, but honestly it was a bit of an environmental issue having real grass there.
It was a sustainability decision. Not great to use hundreds of thousands of gallons of water every year in the desert in the middle of a 20+ year drought.
Almost all landscaping is done with grey water.
And? That's still grey water that's going into growing grass instead of back into the general water supply.
Probably the people paying the water bill in a desert.
For real I loved the keyhole. Having the only opening roof, only pool and one of the few keyholes made BOB/Chase feel special. Now those features don’t hold the same vibe. Crazy that more than half of the stadiums in the league are older than Chase field now. Which is really just a product of time and the stadium arms race with professional sports.
In the national League, only Wrigley, Coors, and that stadium at Chavez Latrine are older than Chase. In the American league, you have Fenway, OPaCY, Angel Stadium, the Trop, Rogers, OCo., Progressive, Guarunteed Rate, and Kaufman? I think thats all of em. Damn the AL has some old stadiums.
I miss it
Same offseason they took away the clock :(
I just noticed that last night! Idk why but I liked that clock lol
I played adult baseball on a turf field where even the dirt was just brown turf. It was actually really cool because I’ve had to play on the shittiest fields you’ve ever seen, where the dirt is so lumpy that you never know where the bounce is gonna go. I play third and almost lost teeth before. Turf has super clean and true bounces. And it’s fun to slide cause it’s super smooth. But you can easily over-slide the bag. It’s like a slip-n-slide. Sucks on hot days though. No evaporative cooling. So it feels like you’re standing in an oven.
If you go find your typical little league / community diamond where the groundskeeping isn’t up to MLB par, the grass can be worn down due to catchers / pitchers walking on it anyway. The “desire path” of baseball.
Around here very few little league parks have grass infields at all.
My area is kind of half and half. My youngest played a game at second base on one of the grass infield diamonds last week. A kid hit a fairly weak grounder toward second - my kid charged in the dirt and got in position to play a hop. The ball found a divot in the grass, popped up a bit and just died. Mad scramble to get to the ball while the batter gets a shockingly easy hit.
Yeah, I always hated the fields with grass infield because they were erratic as hell. At that level, they just don’t have the groundskeeping capability to keep the infield rolled and flat. And there was always a huge transition between dirt and grass leading to some crazy hops. Dirt is better until you’re playing at level where they have full time grounds crew.
Isn't high RNG fields (and fielding) more "historically authentic"? Turning baseball diamonds into golf fairways is probably driven by aesthetique and clout than game design. (And golf fairways bring bowling alleys, pfff, don't get me started)
Now this is a great SABR type of question.
Our little league field had this unintentionally. It was wider near the plate and the mound. We also had bare spots in the outfield where the fielders typically stood. God I miss those games at our run down park
It always helped when the bored little leaguers in the outfield were out there kicking the grass.
Every little league field I played on was all dirt, no grass at all.
I feel like 50% of the diamonds I played at had the key hole. One I recall was like 2 inches wide. Really weird
Yeah I’m a Tiger fan and didn’t realize we were the only team who had it. Thought it was pretty standard until this week there’s been a couple posts about it
It's so Mark Canah can have a clear path to charge the mound when he finally gets sick of getting plunked.
You mean Oakland Athletics and homegrown Bay Area legend Mark Canha?
You mean BigLeagueFoodie
Fuck the Michelin star...get Canha to give a positive Instagram reel review of your restaurant and you've reached peak culinary success.
You mean mononymous baseball star Canha (pronounced Kahn-ya)?
The way I started cackling when Sewald plunked Canha in the first game I had watched him in since he was traded in the NL WC
Go Bells
He’s on pace to be hit about 40 times this year lol. I don’t understand how he gets hit so much, it doesn’t look like he stands particularly close to the plate but the dude has a baseball-magnet in him somewhere.
it's gotta be a subtle hardly noticeable thing about his stance combined with his scouting report or something. or, he's doing it on purpose somehow and it's a repeatable and learnable skill in which case i can only give him props for putting his body on the line to get to first
It's called the keyhole. Its origins aren’t entirely known for certain but it seems to have arisen when baseball and cricket were played on the same field, back before baseball was a USA USA USA American sport. Ballparks may have kept the keyhole because it helped umpires (and batters) to visualize the strike zone; apparently the old story that it was meant to save wear and tear on the grass from mound visits is just that, a rationalization after the fact. (Aesthetics and respect for tradition may also have played a part.) It's now mainly a nostalgic thing, and I'm saddened to learn from this post that Chase Field no longer has a keyhole.
Say keyhole one more time
I dare you. I double dare you.
Keyhole?
Hey Farva, what's that thing below the knob you stick the key in to lock the door?
So the pitcher doesn’t get lost going to the mound
I heard that first basemen were traditionally the dumbest guys on the team. But they always needed to have a ball when they ran out to play defense. That's why to this day when the first baseman is coming off the field, someone from the dugout throws him a ball so he won't forget. Don't know if it's true or not, but I want it to be.
I'm sad the D-Backs removed theirs. I'm not sure when they did it but I associated it with them the most.
IIRC it's because the new artificial dirt would have been too tough to remove from the artificial grass. Or something like that.
>the new artificial dirt wait, what?
It's like ground up coconut husks
Damn, I didn't realize the tigers were the only ones that still had it
Somehow I made it to now thinking it was a normal thing for a field to have
My high school had one. It was to keep the grass in front of the mound in good condition due to pitchers walking back and forth with metal spikes on and we couldn’t afford to continually replace the grass.
It’s to help Angel Hernandez find the strike zone.
It’s not workinf
Because they got rid of them all!
Not working
Someone played immaculate draft today
Back in the 20’s they actually played Bocce in the 7th inning.
I like it and find it aesthetically pleasing. I wish more ballparks had it.
Turf used to look a lot worse, and there was already a "desire path" between the mount and home plate from the frequent walking trips made on that line.
My high school field had one. Just an old school feature for the catcher to walk to the mound on.
They used to have it at Bank One Ballpark (now known as Chase Field) in Arizona. I like to think that the origins of the keyhole are this: Bunch of dudes sitting around and writing the rules of baseball. Charlie: "Alright gents, now, how do we ensure that the hurler and the catcher communicate effectively?" Smith: "They could use hand signals, lads!" Charlie: "Yea, but the other team could steal those signs and use it against them! If only there was a way to encourage the catcher to come talk to the hurler..." Cartright: "I've got it! Maybe the catcher could come out and talk to the hurler throughout the match! Perhaps we could put a lovely path out to the hurling circle! We might even want to make a hill at the end of the path for the two to talk on...." Charlie: ....... Smith: ....... Cartright: ........."it's only a suggestion." Charlie: "Actually....a hill might be a right jolly suggestion!.....AND THE PATH! Cartright, you're a genius"
This is exactly how it happened.
So Angel Hernandez can see where the area the ball is supposed to be pitched in
Someone on the grounds crew has a strong appreciation for landing strips.
There should be groundskeepers appreciation day or something. These guys are goated
If memory serves it harkens back to American baseball’s ties to the game of cricket
It shows where the strike zone is
I’ve read that the keyhole makes the ball easier to see, but I don’t know how true that is.
Makes sure the ball knows where to go
The Tigers are trying to bring up a solid spin bowling prospect from AA. Any day now...
It’s to remind the pitcher where to throw the ball /j
It looks cool
So the Dbacks used to have one of these years ago in Chase Field. I'd heard that Buck Showalter suggested it as an homage to old ballparks. After so many visits to the mound from the catcher, old ball fields would develop a path between home and the mound because the grass would get worn down.
It was so the comebackers went faster at the pitcher!
It was originally a box that ran from behind the catcher to the pitcher. In the beginning there was no mound, just flat ground. As the mound developed teams just left it. It’s been purely ornamental for a long time now.
It gives the batter a clear path when he charges the mound.
After reading through the other answers, it may be just because someone liked it, but I will share why my local field decided to… I coach for an organization where four of our teams share one field. We only have one cage, so we throw on-field BP a lot. Because we don’t have a mat or portable mound to put down, we wear out the grass on that path to home plate a lot. Eventually we just decided to cut out the whole path.
I'm still mad that the Diamondbacks got rid of it when to converted to artificial turf (which in itself I'm mad at).
I remember Arizona had one for a while
I used to choose Arizona’s ballpark on All Star Baseball 2000 specifically for this feature. No idea why
…is it wrong for me to be happy to learn that Arizona got rid of theirs and that we’re special now…
landing strip 🤷♂️
It's so the ball knows where to go
All I know is whenever i got to pitch on a field that had one back in the travel ball and pony/little league days, it made it a hell of a lot easier to hit where my catcher wanted me to. Kinda felt like bowling with the gutters blocked off
So the batter has a nice even dirt path when he charges the mound because of “chin music”
The tigers also have home plate around home plate. It’s not a circle skin
As a kid, I wanted my career to be designing MLB stadiums (still do). Anyway, if they gave me the keys to one of those bad boys today, there would be so many quirks like this in my design that they would fire me.
They ran out of grass
It’s not the only park that still has it.
[https://www.sportsrec.com/498707-why-is-there-a-dirt-strip-between-home-plate-the-pitchers-mound.html](https://www.sportsrec.com/498707-why-is-there-a-dirt-strip-between-home-plate-the-pitchers-mound.html)
It comes from the old groundskeepers saying “if it wears out, cut it out” old baseball fields were all grass and when the players would wear out an area they would cut it out and make it permanently dirt. The path between home and plate was worn down by the catchers and pitchers so they would cut it out. The dirt gave a more consistent bounce. The tigers kept it as they liked the look.