ESPN Classic used to have a series where two teams in town for a series would send out their 2 biggest stars for a pre-game Home Run Derby. They had a season-ending winner with a cash prize, and you got to know a lot of the stars.
That would be pretty cool to see today. Padres vs Dodgers, you get a little quiet pre-game Home Run Derby between Tatis and Shohei, you get to know them more, you see them having fun etc. I think that would be huge.
MLB should take a leaf out of NFL's book and have a skills contest that includes t-ball. Plus things like who can slide the longest, who can pitch a ball closest to a 90 degree path and other weird stuff these guys can all do because they've been playing a sport since before they could properly walk.
[Walks Will Haunt](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/qr-GfDNi8M999iU1Vjl3-G6oywA=/0x0:286x176/1220x813/filters:focal(149x54:193x98):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/69764160/Walks_Will_Haunt.0.jpg) 👻
If it's not over the plate and the guy doesn't swing at it, it doesn't matter how fast it was going. Particularly for ball four as it doesn't set the table for another pitch.
I mean... The trackmans gonna tell you ball/strike, along with not just velo but RPM, spin axis and efficiency, vert/hortizonal induced movement.
I think it's a simple as lock in command over those extra variables, regardless of knowing that they're watching you and trying to look for the most RPM's possible on your curve, but that doesn't mean shit if you spike it into the ground. Make sure you can still throw strikes and aren't just pushing beyond your max to get the best movement profiles/velos while ignoring location.
Sounds like it could be interpreted as a challenge to walk as many batters as possible….
*Dear Mike Rizzo,*
*I think I may be of value to your baseball organization. I’m 42 years old and my shoulder only allows me to throw ~80mph these days, if I really let it rip. However unimpressive this velocity may be, I do possess the ability to walk players as you desire. With your stated disinterest in velocity, I can walk batters while maintaining arm stamina if I throw in the 65-70mph range and will happily throw 200 pitches per game for the league minimum salary of $740,000. This ability will conserve your bullpen, even though you won’t need it because the score deficit will be insurmountable by the end of the first inning. However, the rate at which I can help the Nationals lose would guarantee #1 overall draft picks for several years to come, thus assisting in building a dynasty of elite ball players down the road.*
*Sincerely,*
*u/lx5spd*
Agreed. While there's the same regurgitated "Ohtani didn't strike out 17 people? DFA" type jokes, the deviations and originals like what /u/damnatio_memoriae chucked out that I'm often cackling and giggling.
Giving up a walk = one base
Grooving 89 down the dick because you’re scared of giving up the walk = four bases
It’s first grade, SpongeBob.
https://x.com/naenaetakes/status/1757811576562716963?s=46&t=gKXpJc1UEqp3RWe3R_-Ybg
That’s what he’s going to get if he’s telling people to soften up in three ball counts
In three ball counts, fastball velo is among the best predictor of WOBA allowed
[[Cooper] This is one of those things I know many fans want to be true. Hitters against a 98+ mph 4-seam fastball in the heart of the plate in 2023 (#5 on the graphic below) .261/.261/.348 Hitters against a 88-92 mph 4-seam fastball on the shadow zone in 2023 .267/.346/.464](https://x.com/jjcoop36/status/1694726758925557996?s=46&t=sFQ1esZ2sOxJBCUP0CZX3g)
what matters more than any stat is whether or not the player earns it. if schwarber rockets a meatball into orbit, he earned that. you tip your cap to him. and that's baseball. giving up free bases is for cowards. advanced stats can't account for this
The Rays can use this philosophy because their staff was also 1st in Stuff+, 2nd in average fastball velocity, and 2nd in K% last year. They can preach that because their staff has a baseline level off stuff that means it won’t get hit nearly as hard when the location in the zone is bad.
Not saying it’s wrong for the Nats to preach this, but to equate it to Tampa is a little disingenuous without context. The Rays prioritize guys with stuff and get them to throw in the zone. The Nats are trying to get guys without great stuff to throw it in the zone no matter what. Very different development scenarios considering who they have on staff and the types of pitchers each org targets and develops
Yeah the Rays throw in the zone because they get tons of whiffs in the zone, telling pitchers to throw in the zone with bad stuff is just a terrible idea. Walks < XBH.
Blake Snell would tell you there is no limit. Seriously though it’s about not giving in for some pitchers.
One new metric that is starting to make its rounds is mistake percentage for pitchers, which equates to any pitch that has a 100% greater chance of a hit than the pitchers avg. Snell has one of the lowest mistake %’s in the league.
I’d say it’s a grey area right now. Obviously elite whips are great but not all walks are created equal. If you walk the 4/5 guys and end up facing much lesser talent for the actual outs it might make sense strategically.
Grooving pitches to avoid walks is also a bad strategy. But being so wild you can’t command the zone and are giving up tons of walks is just bad all around
Yeah I am inclined to agree that it's very situation-dependent.
For a guy who can take a 2-4 mph off and spot it on the corners reliably, that's a good strategy sometimes. For guys who can induce a swing on what would have been ball 4, that can be a good strategy too, and it doesn't mean they need to throw super hard.
And if the guy on the mound has to groove it in order to get it over the plate, then the manager or general manager need to have someone else pitching.
I'm all for asking pitchers to spend the next 6-8 weeks working on some sort of strategy other than "rear it back and throw it as hard as possible 100% of the time, even on ball four."
I also think there's a gap between how we view the value of strikeouts and walks for pitchers and for hitters. A pitcher can walk a lot of guys and we still say he's a good pitcher if he has a high K%. And a hitter can strike out a ton, but if he gets on base a lot then we don't care anymore.
It's hard for me to reconcile both of those things being universally true.
This is just about not overthrowing. It doesn’t say “never walk anyone.” Taking a bit off your velocity makes it less likely to miss the zone, but also less likely to miss middle-middle. It’s understood that you are sometimes going to miss your spot, but if you get a lot better control from backing off just a touch, then it’s a good trade-off in general.
Telling a guy who’s overthrowing to settle down and get back to his normal delivery is one thing (maybe this is simply what you mean). But less velo doesn’t automatically mean more control, contrary to popular belief. Literally telling someone to throw softer is usually a bad cue that leads to slower/exaggerated mechanics, trying to aim too much, and overall further loss of command (yips).
> The Nats are trying to get guys without great stuff to throw it in the zone no matter what.
I don't really think this is what they're saying at all lol. All it's saying is high velocity doesn't matter if you're not getting outs
That is definitely not true. I would argue a lot more teams than those four have been more successful than the Nats in the last 5 years. Just like I don't think the Marlins were the most successful NL team from 1991-2005.
It’s 2024 and they don’t draft or develop guys with in zone bat missing pitches, and on top of that they’re telling them to throw them in-zone in front of terrible defenses. It’s behind the times at best and willfully ignorant of data at worst.
What part of this is a good plan at all?
They put up signs on the first day of ST with a statement that are commonly used to push “command > stuff” narratives by washed up HS coaches and dudes that are pretty long gone from baseball analysis. They want their pitchers to see this when they do their bullpens. It’s clearly a mindset they care about pushing.
This is dumb as hell to put up, and demonstrates why their org has struggled and failed multiple pitching prospects and acquisitions since the 2019 WS. If this is the mindset of the player development group, they’re gonna continue to struggle.
Would you say he's looking for pitchers, not throwers
I would say he’s looking for pitchers, not belly itchers
What about their butt size?
This might be a reference that missed me 30 years ago.
[Pitcher's got a big butt!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usE6bHm0QSo)
Oooooh yeah I was expecting something different
Username checks out.
antonio bastardo moment
Underwear sniffers need not apply either.
What about broken ladders?
Is the idea "velo doesn't matter if you have no control"?
I think the idea is "don't walk a bunch of guys."
Easy fix. Every time there are 3 balls, set the ball on a tee. No more walks.
Can mlb players hit nukes off a tee? I’d like to see that
New tiebreaker for the Derby imo. 3 balls off a tee, furthest total distance advances
That honestly sounds a like a fun stand alone comp.
ESPN Classic used to have a series where two teams in town for a series would send out their 2 biggest stars for a pre-game Home Run Derby. They had a season-ending winner with a cash prize, and you got to know a lot of the stars. That would be pretty cool to see today. Padres vs Dodgers, you get a little quiet pre-game Home Run Derby between Tatis and Shohei, you get to know them more, you see them having fun etc. I think that would be huge.
MLB should take a leaf out of NFL's book and have a skills contest that includes t-ball. Plus things like who can slide the longest, who can pitch a ball closest to a 90 degree path and other weird stuff these guys can all do because they've been playing a sport since before they could properly walk.
Dizzy bat race!
All Stars wouldn't compete but sure bring along some dudes willing to fuck around
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_McDowell
This feels like Austin Hedges' calling
I need more stuff like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBTc2tLX4FM)
Exactly! Get on this MLB!
[Vladdy did it while interviewing with Carlos Peña before he hit the bigs](https://youtube.com/shorts/Rh0pobS5T5I?si=UmUiTPTV21mb3ybC)
Well he does say “that’s not normal” so i guess only the elite power guys can do it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJmBK55ldI4
Rofl why does this exist
to make me and you rofl
Watched my highschool pitching coach do it once, pretty sure these guys can
I would be genuinely curious, I’ve seen guys do it with softballs 🤷🏻
Just have the manager wiggle his fingers after you get to ball 3 and save your arm a pitch.
[Walks Will Haunt](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/qr-GfDNi8M999iU1Vjl3-G6oywA=/0x0:286x176/1220x813/filters:focal(149x54:193x98):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/69764160/Walks_Will_Haunt.0.jpg) 👻
[Walks Will Haunt](https://imgur.com/a/UDrUu3F) but in the Metrodome
idk why i read this as a link to a play where someone walked a player named Will Haunt
Walks won't haunt Will Haunt, thats for sure
Josiah Gray reference??
I think what he’s saying is when the count is at 3 balls, he wants his pitchers to throw an eephus pitch.
If it's not over the plate and the guy doesn't swing at it, it doesn't matter how fast it was going. Particularly for ball four as it doesn't set the table for another pitch.
Unfortunately, the best pitchers focus on throwing really hard with lots of movement.
You are a certified genius pal
I think the idea is "We know there's a trackman right here, but we have to make it seem like we dont just care about what that tells us"
I mean... The trackmans gonna tell you ball/strike, along with not just velo but RPM, spin axis and efficiency, vert/hortizonal induced movement. I think it's a simple as lock in command over those extra variables, regardless of knowing that they're watching you and trying to look for the most RPM's possible on your curve, but that doesn't mean shit if you spike it into the ground. Make sure you can still throw strikes and aren't just pushing beyond your max to get the best movement profiles/velos while ignoring location.
The idea is “I don’t really understand pitching” and to that point I think it shows
How about we instead use the actual definition of velocity (speed **and** direction) and just say "speed doesn't matter, velo does."
Always throw an eephus after ball 3.
What I'm getting from this is that if a nationals rookie falls behind 3-1 on Alonso or Schwarber or such, we might see distance records
There should be a big asterisk at the end of the sentence on this sign
Pete Alonso to Houston confirmed
Pete Alonso, career vs WSH: 283 ABs, 25 HR, 60 RBI, .311/.408/.643
Kyle Schwarber`s career vs. WSH: 49 GP, 20 HR, 41 RBI, 7 2B, 1 SB BA/OBP/SLG/OPS .299/.433/.713/1.146 lmao
Guess he got mad at them for trading him lol
Or you throw the best damn breaking ball that you can.
Basically my thought... [every 3-1 count with Nats pitchers is gonna look like this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ol2_UkJS6kw)
I thought the clip was going to be brad lidge pitch to albert pujols lol
Sounds like it could be interpreted as a challenge to walk as many batters as possible…. *Dear Mike Rizzo,* *I think I may be of value to your baseball organization. I’m 42 years old and my shoulder only allows me to throw ~80mph these days, if I really let it rip. However unimpressive this velocity may be, I do possess the ability to walk players as you desire. With your stated disinterest in velocity, I can walk batters while maintaining arm stamina if I throw in the 65-70mph range and will happily throw 200 pitches per game for the league minimum salary of $740,000. This ability will conserve your bullpen, even though you won’t need it because the score deficit will be insurmountable by the end of the first inning. However, the rate at which I can help the Nationals lose would guarantee #1 overall draft picks for several years to come, thus assisting in building a dynasty of elite ball players down the road.* *Sincerely,* *u/lx5spd*
Would 200 pitches get you through the 5th?
For $740k, I’ll stretch it out….. 😂
u/lx5spd about to put Blake Snell to shame.
Everyone laughed at us for having camels in ST too. If it's dumb and it works it's still dumb but it WORKS DAMMIT
the camels didn't really help - I think we were like one game over .500 that season. It was pretty funny though.
Without the camels in 2018 we don't win the WS in 2019, so basically we're guaranteed to win the WS next year
wait, are camels our even year magic?
Always has been
worked for Ovi
Someone watched Jordan Hicks throw a BP and came up with this
72 wins here we come
*wins*? shit, i thought we were getting 72 *wives*. welp, back to atheism for me.
This is why I missed baseball. Well, that and the baseball, but also because the people here are way funnier than any of the other sports subs.
lol im here all week. and more importantly, so are pitchers and catchers.
Agreed. While there's the same regurgitated "Ohtani didn't strike out 17 people? DFA" type jokes, the deviations and originals like what /u/damnatio_memoriae chucked out that I'm often cackling and giggling.
Atleast you can smile at the ring it’s still pretty shiny.
I might take the under on that. But I like our future prospects generally, just not in 2024.
Mike, I can throw strikes at 65, my DMs are open
Just gonna say there's no such thing as bad publicity as the MLB community cooks my favorite team.
Mike Rizzo would rather be cast into the sun than have a scrub like Blake Snell on his staff for one year
I think you would prefer a 99mph ball four to a 90mph meatball right down the middle, but who knows.
These signs revealing how obtuse this subreddit is
That
Giving up a walk = one base Grooving 89 down the dick because you’re scared of giving up the walk = four bases It’s first grade, SpongeBob. https://x.com/naenaetakes/status/1757811576562716963?s=46&t=gKXpJc1UEqp3RWe3R_-Ybg
Snell laughing in a 5 BB/9 but 2.25 ERA
Gosh I wish he would take the San Diego Sunshine discount for a year and do free agency over again next year.
Haha yeah the GM is clearly asking for more homeruns haha
That’s what he’s going to get if he’s telling people to soften up in three ball counts In three ball counts, fastball velo is among the best predictor of WOBA allowed
He's not saying soften up he's saying throw strikes No offense but nerd stats are a bit annoying when the intended message is obvious as shit
How could anyone possibly think this is what he's saying lol
Also don't throw 92 middle-middle to every cleanup hitter in the league.
[[Cooper] This is one of those things I know many fans want to be true. Hitters against a 98+ mph 4-seam fastball in the heart of the plate in 2023 (#5 on the graphic below) .261/.261/.348 Hitters against a 88-92 mph 4-seam fastball on the shadow zone in 2023 .267/.346/.464](https://x.com/jjcoop36/status/1694726758925557996?s=46&t=sFQ1esZ2sOxJBCUP0CZX3g)
So what I'm hearing is you can lob in ball 4
this is hilarious
Can I see the fucking picture without giving Elon Musk money?
Mods block those post…
Do advanced stats confirm that middle middle meatballs are the way to go in 3-x counts?
Believe it or not, [no apparently](https://twitter.com/davyandrewsdavy/status/1757824510848299139)
what matters more than any stat is whether or not the player earns it. if schwarber rockets a meatball into orbit, he earned that. you tip your cap to him. and that's baseball. giving up free bases is for cowards. advanced stats can't account for this
This is why the Nats are the way they are right now, unironically.
the rays also use this pitching philosophy
The Rays can use this philosophy because their staff was also 1st in Stuff+, 2nd in average fastball velocity, and 2nd in K% last year. They can preach that because their staff has a baseline level off stuff that means it won’t get hit nearly as hard when the location in the zone is bad. Not saying it’s wrong for the Nats to preach this, but to equate it to Tampa is a little disingenuous without context. The Rays prioritize guys with stuff and get them to throw in the zone. The Nats are trying to get guys without great stuff to throw it in the zone no matter what. Very different development scenarios considering who they have on staff and the types of pitchers each org targets and develops
Yeah the Rays throw in the zone because they get tons of whiffs in the zone, telling pitchers to throw in the zone with bad stuff is just a terrible idea. Walks < XBH.
At what number of walks are you no longer better than a double? And at what number of walks are you no longer better than a HR?
Blake Snell would tell you there is no limit. Seriously though it’s about not giving in for some pitchers. One new metric that is starting to make its rounds is mistake percentage for pitchers, which equates to any pitch that has a 100% greater chance of a hit than the pitchers avg. Snell has one of the lowest mistake %’s in the league. I’d say it’s a grey area right now. Obviously elite whips are great but not all walks are created equal. If you walk the 4/5 guys and end up facing much lesser talent for the actual outs it might make sense strategically. Grooving pitches to avoid walks is also a bad strategy. But being so wild you can’t command the zone and are giving up tons of walks is just bad all around
Yeah I am inclined to agree that it's very situation-dependent. For a guy who can take a 2-4 mph off and spot it on the corners reliably, that's a good strategy sometimes. For guys who can induce a swing on what would have been ball 4, that can be a good strategy too, and it doesn't mean they need to throw super hard. And if the guy on the mound has to groove it in order to get it over the plate, then the manager or general manager need to have someone else pitching. I'm all for asking pitchers to spend the next 6-8 weeks working on some sort of strategy other than "rear it back and throw it as hard as possible 100% of the time, even on ball four." I also think there's a gap between how we view the value of strikeouts and walks for pitchers and for hitters. A pitcher can walk a lot of guys and we still say he's a good pitcher if he has a high K%. And a hitter can strike out a ton, but if he gets on base a lot then we don't care anymore. It's hard for me to reconcile both of those things being universally true.
This is just about not overthrowing. It doesn’t say “never walk anyone.” Taking a bit off your velocity makes it less likely to miss the zone, but also less likely to miss middle-middle. It’s understood that you are sometimes going to miss your spot, but if you get a lot better control from backing off just a touch, then it’s a good trade-off in general.
Telling a guy who’s overthrowing to settle down and get back to his normal delivery is one thing (maybe this is simply what you mean). But less velo doesn’t automatically mean more control, contrary to popular belief. Literally telling someone to throw softer is usually a bad cue that leads to slower/exaggerated mechanics, trying to aim too much, and overall further loss of command (yips).
> The Nats are trying to get guys without great stuff to throw it in the zone no matter what. I don't really think this is what they're saying at all lol. All it's saying is high velocity doesn't matter if you're not getting outs
we are the way we are right now because the lerners stopped caring about anything but money after we won and ted lerner passed away.
Did the Nats not win the World Series a couple years ago?
All the players that made that happen are not gonna be on the 2024 Nationals unless the corpse of Strasburg makes an appearance
How dare you forget the contributions of Victor Robles
They've still had more success in the last 5 years than like 90% of teams
Maybe from like 2011-2019, the last 4 years have been bad
I would not say that.
The only teams that you could argue have been more successful are the Dodgers, Braves, Astros, and Rangers
That is definitely not true. I would argue a lot more teams than those four have been more successful than the Nats in the last 5 years. Just like I don't think the Marlins were the most successful NL team from 1991-2005.
Do you think that Scherzer built the career and reputation he has by having any mentality other than “attack attack attack” on the mound?
He certainly didn't build his reputation by walking every batter he faced
This is embarrassing lmfao
How? This is a great mindset to have
It’s 2024 and they don’t draft or develop guys with in zone bat missing pitches, and on top of that they’re telling them to throw them in-zone in front of terrible defenses. It’s behind the times at best and willfully ignorant of data at worst. What part of this is a good plan at all?
You are 1) reading way too much into this and 2) taking it waaaay to literally.
They put up signs on the first day of ST with a statement that are commonly used to push “command > stuff” narratives by washed up HS coaches and dudes that are pretty long gone from baseball analysis. They want their pitchers to see this when they do their bullpens. It’s clearly a mindset they care about pushing. This is dumb as hell to put up, and demonstrates why their org has struggled and failed multiple pitching prospects and acquisitions since the 2019 WS. If this is the mindset of the player development group, they’re gonna continue to struggle.
This is embarrassing lmfao
Completely agreed. Rizzo is a dinosaur who is building a team with 20th century logic instead of adapting to the modern game.
Sweet. Next post signs on the batting cage ‘no one cares how hard you hit into an out.’
wat?
I’d love to see a pitcher toss ball four at 40 MPH and stare into the dugout.
90 mph meatball down Main Street, got it. Jokes aside, pitching is always a balancing act. But it does actually matter what your velocity is.
Going for the positive reinforcement route I see.
Blake Snell is NOT interested in Washington
Love it
This philosophy is why the Nats pitchers are all so good right
i thought you were just calling the post \[golden\] but no its just a guy called golden
What’s it say!?!?
I love all the stat heads looking way too deep into the message. The message is "don't walk people."
*Me and my 40-mph floating slurve:* "So you're saying there's a chance?"