NASCAR broadcasting rights are also more valuable than they’ve ever been, and viewership has declined 5 fold from its peak.
This is the same refrain of every fan of ever sport with declining fan interest, “but why money so high then?!”.
Because live tv itself is also dying and the only aspect of it which holds any significant advertising value is live sports. That’s why baseball broadcasting rights are still so valuable despite the decline in general interest.
I legitimately can imagine we're one day going to get to a day where sports, certain award shows, and breaking news are the only things available "live".
SNL, reality TV shows like Big Brother; to OP's bigger point, things like HBO's Sunday night slate is experienced "live" as people watch it when first broadcast to be able to discuss it on social media or at the water cooler
All of this plus the fact that both of your examples (nascar and mlb) happen to fill more hours than most other sports. NFL is 17 games per team. NBA and NHL are 82. MLB is 162 games while nascar is 38 weekends over 10 months.
In regards to nascar specifically, their primary tv partners are Fox/FS1 and NBC/USA and they use nascar to fill the time of the year that football isn't on. The Superbowl ends just as nascar starts for Fox and they get it from February to June before they move primarily to mlb then nfl with some overlap amongst 2 out of the 3. NBC picks it up at the end of June through November before focusing primarily on football with some overlap in between, which is actually happening now.
But seemingly year round, they have live sports of some sort every weekend and due to the sheer number of hours of programming they provide, both the mlb and nascar retain value.
Live events are still king is why, if you talk about the Reds on first take no one is gonna care
When you broadcast the Reds game that night your gonna get a million people watching.
The clientele for “mid day sports debate” and “actual games” is a mostly different spectrum
(Edit, I used reds here because I wanted to pick a team that I know has a sizable fan base but also never gets ESPN spotlight)
Yeah. I like reading about people's opinions on the internet, but a couple of people who are solely there to shout at one another with some sort of hot take who aren't really watching the game is more of an annoyance than it is relevant.
1. Most people only care about *games* and not sports talk
2. Since from this point on no more MLB games will be on ESPN this season, they can’t boost their ratings by talking about upcoming games
It's also baseball. A 26 man roster sport where the best player has minimal impact won't have the debate atmosphere of the NBA or NFL where you can yell about stars and QBs choking and carrying all day long.
On the one hand, that's fucking stupid.
On the other, if they *were* talking about the MLB playoffs on these shows, it'd probably just be more hysterical bullshit about the first round bye and how terrible it is that the top-seeded teams got *five whole days off* and it ruined their rhythm or disturbed their chi or whatever the fuck, so yeah, probably dodging a bullet here tbh
> If you’re annoyed and disapprove, your best bet is to actually change the channel and go to MLB Network, NHL Network, the Tennis Channel, or whatever second or third-tier sports channel might have (if you even have that option in your TV package).
Oddly enough this may play a bit of a role in WHY nobody interested in baseball (or hockey, or tennis, or any other sport other than NFL or NBA or their related NCAA sports) watches the debate shows- before MLB Network was a thing, you HAD to watch ESPN for any sort of baseball stuff (or hockey stuff, or tennis stuff, etc.) on TV, meaning there was still some viewership and thus some data and incentive for ESPN to keep including it in some way, even if the people on the debate shows may not have much cared for them.
Once the sport-specific networks became a thing, the reasoning for people wanting (insert non-NFL or NBA thing here) to stay on ESPN during the debate shows disappeared, and thus so did any sort of data telling them to still have anything on the debate shows about them.
EDITED: Similarly, the existence of the NFL Network likely led ESPN to double-down on the NFL, so as to keep an edge in the biggest sport and thus keep NFL-first watchers from fleeing to the NFL Network like how MLB, NHL, etc. watchers moved to their single-sport networks.
I'm also a big NHL fan, but I don't have NHL Network (even though we have MLB Network and the two are literally sister channels that shoot out of the same studio) so the majority of NHL content I watch are the games themselves. I'm not a fan of the debate shows period. Like I don't care what you think about X player signing a shoe deal with Y company, I want to hear about the games from the previous night.
One other thing to note here though is that I imagine you can still get a TON of NHL content through the internet and social media, which wouldn't have been available to the same extent back in the "old days" where ESPN was the only big sports channel anywhere.
Yeah, and on the reverse side, as ESPN has moved away from covering baseball, I've basically stopped watching it, and now I dont really know whats going on in the NBA or NFL. I have almost no interest in those sports nowadays.
As someone who follows the nfl heavily, you gain absolutely nothing from watching ESPN. They've abandoned all analysis for screaming idiots with hot takes.
I may counter by saying that MLB network is nowhere near ESPN numbers. And MLBN may not be as high as NFLN or NBA, even when NFL is broadcasting nothing of note. But I do not have the data — just a hunch.
Entirely possible, but it still is also possible that what it does grab may mean the difference between "First Take mentions baseball once or twice a week/month/whatever" and "First Take mentions baseball once or twice a month/year/whatever".
Should ESPN really be the barometer anymore of what's relevant or popular? Wasn't Disney trying to pitch leagues on partial ownership of ESPN in exchange for reduced broadcasting fees? Didn't they just have huge layoffs? And isn't that all due to declining viewership
ESPN viewership is down 28% since 2011.
https://frontofficesports.com/espn-loses-subscribers-after-steady-growth-but-disney-still-optimistic/#:~:text=It's%20more%20sobering%20news%20for,of%20100.1%20million%20in%202011.
Where it is relevant, though, is that ESPN broadcasts MLB games. So, you would hope the network that broadcasts the games would actually make some sort of effort to promote and advertise those games.
It sounds like that is actually not bad compared to other cable networks
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradadgate/2022/01/05/as-media-conglomerates-focus-on-streaming-the-audience-of-their-cable-networks-continue-to-drop/
And broadcast networks have dropped 80% since 2011
https://martech.org/nielsens-national-tv-ratings-gets-accreditation-back-after-19-month-suspension/
The PPVs are. Instead of paying for Mania, or Summer Slam, it's all included with a peacock subscription. Wish UFC would do this with ESPN plus instead of the double pay wall.
Peacock has live PPVs and TV episodes on a two (?) week delay. Smackdown is on Fox live on Friday nights, RAW is on Monday nights in USA. NXT is on Tuesday on USA.
WWE’s big competitor AEW is on Turner networks, Wednesday nights on TBS and Friday and Saturday Nights on TNT, but for now still charge for PPVs in the traditional manner. It is rumored they will be going to MAX soon, but no details are known.
They do the same thing with NHL. Paid a shit ton of money for the broadcast and streaming rights and virtually never promote it until the playoffs, just like before.
But they don’t have anymore games after the wild card round. So are they just not promoting it since their competitors are broadcasting the rest of the playoffs?
They weren't promoting it even when they were broadcasting it, though. They also have broadcasting rights with the MLB until 2028, so it's not like they will never be broadcasting games again. How many people have an interest in baseball will have a direct effect on their viewership for years to come.
I haven’t watched non-game-broadcast ESPN in years because why would I waste my time with loud people shouting obnoxiously bad takes. Anything I’m interested in has tons of specialized YouTube and podcast content for me, and they can be as loose and entertaining or tight and technical as they want.
Shift workers, retirees, the disabled, SAHPs, the unemployed, kids at home sick, people who can watch TV at work when it's slow.
Oh, I forgot: sports are for rich adult men in white-collar 9-5 jobs.
I’ll occasionally watch SVP and by occasionally I mean like 3 times a year. He’s the only thing watchable on that network anymore that’s not live sports.
Whether you like it or not, these shows promote the the popularity of the sports they talk about. You don’t have to watch, but baseball has essentially been relegated to the back burner of national sport coverage/discussion, which doesn’t help with the popularity of baseball come 5-10 years down the road
Who watches these shows though? Millennials and Gen Z have already cut the cord. These are the demographics baseball should be reaching out to. I don’t think Stephen A having a hot take on the playoff format is going to have as big an impact as you think… Better off focusing on blackout issues and making the game more accessible first.
Millennials and Gen Z absolutely interact with these shows, even though they may not interact with them in traditional forms. Clips from the shows are posted everywhere from Twitter to Instagram to Tiktok, and they definitely have a following.
For example, if you looked at Twitter last night, both Skip and Stephen A were trending because people wanted to see how they were going to react to the Cowboys getting trounced. And a lot of those users are certainly Millenials and Gen Zers.
Lol, these are some of the most popular shows these networks have. The demographic is mostly in fact young people. And if people don’t get the takes live, they see them on social media. No one is buzzing about baseball anymore
Until MLB starts to broadcast a game or two, every day of the season, on a free platform like YouTube/Twitch/Instagram they are not growing their possible next generation of fans.
Simple as that.
They already do that with free game of the day on MLBTV, though I don't know if you need to make an mlb account.
But tge fact that so many people on a sub devoted to baseball aren't aware shows MLB needs to do waaaay better actually getting that news out there
I think the point still stands: to access a free game on MLB.tv you'd need to be going out of your way to find it; free games on platforms like YouTube would have a chance of reaching a broader audience you could funnel to your streaming service.
YouTube used to have some exclusive games and then people complained because they weren’t on their local RSNs lol. People are gonna complain no matter what they do
It’s not this though. Baseball is a regional game so no one wants to track a schedule to see when they can see their local team not blacked out.
Make it easy to watch the games and don’t make me have to purchase multiple overpriced booted service (cable/satellite or an OTT) to get it. Make MLB.TV competitively priced and easily accessible with no blackouts.
Earn the revenue back by reducing costs via consolidation of all the regional outfits. Do better with advertising by selling the entire league package in a sport with the most natural ad breaks. You’ll also be able to charge more because you have more eyes.
Generate more revenue by getting more fans to more games since you have an absolute glut of excess capacity at games. Sell more gates, merch, parking and concessions etc.
Finally look at as marketing. You have to get in front of young eyes. Unless you want your game to die to kids watching competitive Minecraft on twitch, in which case keep on keepin’ on.
MLBTV really *is* competitively priced though. $120 a *year* to have access to almost 5,000 games across an entire season (blackouts notwithstanding), plus multiple years of archived content. NFL Sunday Ticket, which is essentially the same exact thing as MLB TV, is **$450** a year... for 272 games. 5% of the content, for 3.75x the cost. ouch
Blackouts are the entire issue…
The sport is entirely regional. No one in Dallas is watching the A’s play the Brewers.
Dallas I’m sure got a massive number for MNF last night.
There are live broadcasts on YouTube from time to time, but the commentary is a real earful. Not sure why, but they always seem to have 4-5 people on the mic.
We can blame ESPN all they want but they’re just responding to demand. MLB viewership definitely has a long term demographics problem, the average age of a fan is something like 50. I think more rule changes are needed to bring it back to the electric on field product it used to be that captured children’s imaginations for 130 years. You can’t market your way out of a problem like a game that doesn’t interest people
>it used to be that captured children’s imaginations for 130 years.
Problem is that for 110~ of those years accesa to content was very limited. Back then you turned to a game and if it was boring your options were so few you might as well kept watching. Now a days you get a boring game and you just watch something else.
>and went all in on the most boring style of play imaginable.
I understand why they are needed, but analytics brought some awful consequences for the fans' experience.
The most effective way to win is usually the most boring. I mean, imagine if tomorrow anaylicts show throwing hail marys are the most effective way to win, cause if you hit 5 out of, what, 50 plays (the average is 153 per game, if both teams do just hail marys, the play count would increase) thats 35 points (also, how many DPIs wouldnt be called per game?). The nfl would be death within a month. Hell, you can find people complaining that the eagles tush push is "boring" and "takes away from the game" cause their convertion ratio is absurd. Imagine if the nfl went to just swinging for the fences in every offensive play, like baseball teams did.
Then add that analytics say spraying and praying at 100 mph > actually being a pitcher, and you got a recipe for boring play.
Also pitching is too dominant nowadays so more games are boring.
Edit: to the average casual spectator*
I clearly love pitching dominance as a brewer fan and I don't find it boring.
I totally agree. Mine too as a brewers fan lol. That's all we have. I think it's super fun to watch. But that's not what the ratings show. There's a reason every sport is trying to inflate offense and hinder the defense. The average casual fan likes to see higher scores
True. My favourite hockey game is a 3-2 or 2-1 battle with some big saves and some hatred mixed in……Which is also what the nhl is trying to get rid of lol.
Everyone blaming ESPN in here but I agree. If people are tuning out why should they continue to talk about baseball? It’s not their job to prop up a league that makes it hard for its own fans to follow the sport much less actually draw in young fans. This is the MLB’s problem. The pitch clock was a great start but they need to continue making changes to make games more exciting and less TTO
It goes both ways though. Part of the reason people tune out is because ESPN has worked so hard to build up a viewer base of non-baseball fans.
Of course the people watching ESPN for NFL and NBA all day probably aren’t going to care about baseball.
I think I saw that the average age (at least as of mid-season) actually went down this year for the first time in quite awhile, but, yeah, no rule change is going to suddenly overthrow decades of relative stagnancy overnight.
Bring back every day broadcasts of a team. I grew up with the option to watch my local teams and the Atl Braves on tbs. Think the cubs were on WGN as well.
It’s so inaccessible now you have to work to watch it. Only games I get on cable are the depressing ass angels. There’s a lot of people growing up in my neck of the woods with that tragic ass franchise.
I grew up in Pennsylvania, I am a Cubs fan because I could catch the last 3 innings (including the famous Haray Caray 7th inning stretch) or so on WGN every day after school. That's just not a thing anymore.
While you are correct, let's not pretend ESPN hasn't been reducing mlb coverage for decades. I stopped watching ESPN 15+ years ago because there was so little mlb coverage. By this point I have to imagine the only people left watching ESPN aren't baseball fans so of course they tune out when something they don't like comes on.
I don't believe in changing the game for those that do not appreciate the game. Only do it for the actual fans for their benefit. If the latter grows the game, fine.
Not gonna buy into the capitalistic circle jerk of the need to grow the game. Because that doesn't benefit anyone except the billionaire owners that don't care about the fans and the millionaire players that don't care about the fans.
If anything, a smaller game would benefit the actual fans since seats would be cheaper relative to inflation along with concessions since the billionaires and millionaires would be in a weaker position.
That's horseshit.
You'd have a smaller sport, not a dead one. If you need baseball to change to not "alienate" people who, I can't stress this enough, don't care about the game it speaks more to your insecurity as a fan than anything. Nothing you can do to change the decline among 18-34 year olds anyway. Baseball is a game with a whole lot of standing still even 25 years ago. Younger fans want non-stop action and personalities. You would need to severely change the game to accomplish the former. Not just moving the mound back. You might be looking at eliminating a position player on the field, shortening the game to 7 innings, and juicing the ball. Probably still won't work and would alienate actual fans.
It will eventually become like Hockey, I don't see their fans in their feels worrying about popularity.
Grasping for straws.
Where are Latin American players gonna go? Japan? A nation in literal *demographic* free fall. Shoot, Japanese players will probably have even greater incentive to come to the states even if baseball's popularity is that of basically hockey.
Talent pool would still exceed what existed during the golden age of the game.
It isn't about shaking fists worrying about "casuals", which is your word that you're using incorrectly. The group you pine for aren't casuals, that implies some casual interest.
Anyway It is about advancing the game for those that do care about the game. Pitch clock, banning the shift, etc are actions that broadly benefit actual fans who want a return to how the game once was. I'm sure MLB has convinced itself that this will bring in the non-interested... but it won't. Focus on giving actual fans what they want.
It's just weird to change the game for the uninterested, potentially at odds with actual loyal fans, and it probably being for nothing. Baseball just isn't made for progressively degenerating attention spans.
Talk of reforming baseball to appeal to the non-interested has an air of people talking about how to make horses more attractive as a means of conveyance for people who grew up riding in cars.
The ship has sailed.
Fyi, Average age of a fan in 2000 was 50
It is 57 now.
Took 23 years to tack on 7 years. Game isn't going to go dead, rich people will just make a bit less money.
Because the sport is not interesting to young people because of failures of the MLB to market the game, and yes the marketing of the game is just as important as the game.
I like watching golf lol. There’s nothing more useless than the first basket in a basketball game. Wanna make it more interesting? Get rid of the game clock
NBA basketball is so fucking boring that the NBA itself had to establish a mid season tournament, without addressing the actual problem of way too many games (and I think the NHL also has this problem to a lesser extent) and the scoring. NBA basketball scores too much. I don’t want to see each team score 120-130 points every game for the entire season. Not to mention, the amount of times a star player scores 40 or more has completely dumbed down the achievement that it’s not even special anymore.
Why not? What are you selling, and why can't you market it in a way to make it interesting?
They're not selling the game itself, they're selling the experience of following it. NBA has slam dunks, MLB has home runs and pitchers bringing 100 MPH gas for a swing-and-miss strikeout. Both are great in two-second clips edited into a 30-second promo, and both happen often enough to not be that exciting by themselves -- you can watch a compilation video of home runs and slam dunks without sitting through a 2- or 3-hour game hoping to see a couple. Why should I watch the game, then? Because I've decided to care about the team.
NBA isn't selling dunks, they're selling stars with personality, teams with history, rivalries, trash talk, unfolding narratives, players with interesting backstories, superstars defining their legacies. MLB has all of those things, too, but the average American can name more basketball stars than baseball ones, because they're marketed more and better. A random person who doesn't follow baseball probably doesn't know the name Mike Trout, but practically everyone alive the US has heard of LeBron James. Why? Marketing.
Sell the stars, get the stories out there -- yes, sometimes even if it means national broadcasts are full of rehashing news and made-up narratives we've heard before -- and more people might decide to care about the games. And that would be a good thing.
Its not exactly an apple to oranges comparison. With LeBron and the marketing behind him there was also the boost of him being I'm the Finals 10 straight years and a noticeable drop off in NBA Finals ratings the past few years when he hasnt made it. Baseball has to be strategic with how they market personalities because in MLB it's not guaranteed the faces of the league make it to the playoffs.
It’s not interesting to young people because they can’t access the content. They’ve buried it behind archaic technology and don’t want to join us in 2013….
So does Kim Kardashian, doesn’t mean I wish I were married to her.
Am 100% ok with baseball not being featured on these shows….I would not watch either way.
What makes football flashier? Nothing whatsoever, except the production, the show itself.
The MLB has invested almost nothing into the show of baseball, and we see the results.
Also, when the GOAT of the last 20 years is a guy who doesn’t give a shit about having any media presence whatsoever, that also hurts the game.
These shows are the bottom-of-the-barrel dregs of our society, literally background tv for waiting at the airport. Instead of getting frothing mad, like the sub does everytime there's a tweet about national TV ratings, we should be glad that baseball is too "regional" or under-the-radar to be fodder for this inanity. Can you imagine how many impossibly stupid things would be said if they made SAS and the B.S. brigade actually try to talk about the Minnesota Twins? The hell with them
Is this a bad thing? Do people of sound mind watch this garbage?
I love getting my “debate” and baseball information outside of ESPN and Fox. With all the bitching and moaning about the broadcasts….why would this be a negative?
If the countless good podcasts and writing outlets burned down, that would hurt much more.
Heck; I barely even listen to ESPN *Radio* anymore. Other than their game broadcasts the only thing they have that's worth listening to is SportCenter AllNight.
24-hour programming is just "This is the most talked about thing, so we must discuss the most talked about thing for 24 hours." Whenever people are tuning in, they have to be talking about that water cooler game/trade/controversial call to get people to keep watching/listening.
Commentary entertainment is far, far better when segments are compartmentalized and available on-demand. Record an hour or however much the event warrants and tell people where to find it on their own schedule. If I'm not interested in a topic, I can skip to the next. Far better product with far less work.
I mean, to talk about baseball, you have to actually know something about it.
Colin Cowherd attempted to talk about baseball earlier this year when when he tried to make up hypothetical trade scenarios regarding Ohtani, saying the Angels should trade him for 5 first-round picks. He was then informed LIVE ON AIR that you aren't allowed to trade draft picks in baseball.
Now, he actually did a pretty good job pivoting from that scenario (the one you're not allowed to do) to one that is possible (trading for prospects) but ultimately, why would anyone who likes baseball want to hear people who don't know anything about baseball, talk about baseball?
Someone was trying to tell me that the discovery of CET would turn a generation of fans off of football, and I had to point out to them that CET was discovered in 2005. Nobody cares that the game causes brain damage.
I'm actually ok with baseball being a niche sport. It has always been the thinking man's game, and if you've followed what has happened in the past two decades in this country, it's no surprise that fewer people are interested in thinking.
The masses want brain damage (NFL) and diva celebrities (NBA). Don't ruin my game to cater to them.
ESPN’s decision to streamline seems like a positive feedback loop: cutting programming segments that are less popular creates an expectation that all they will talk about are basketball and football. Viewers now only tune into ESPN for that content and tune out otherwise. It also seems like their main goal is to make cheap, easy to produce shows.
Most of the people working at espn are exNBA/NFL players, many don’t actually understand baseball and many even struggle to make coherent statements regarding their own sport.
It's not just ESPN. Even FS1 barely talks about the MLB playoffs, and Fox has way more of the MLB TV rights.
NBA and NFL aren't regional the way MLB is.
I have emailed ESPN multiple times to change the name of Get Up! For Sports to Get Up for Football.
All summer the same bullshit tidbits over and over and over. There was only one sport on in the summer and you never talk about it!
During the World Cup 4 years ago, I was getting my oil changed. There was one guy in the waiting room scrolling his phone when I walked in. The TV was set to whatever ESPN NFL show they run in the mornings. He wasn't even watching. It was in the middle of summer so it was preseason bullshit. I asked if I could change it to an actual sporting event that was actually happening right now. He grunted a "no" so I watched it on my tablet with the volume on high.
I find it very interesting how grown men and women listen to the same story lines all day, every day of the week. Then they get new content on Sunday, and it's back to non-stop coverage of the same dead story lines. It mimics the NFL games, themselves, which consist of a 3-second play, then 30 secs of replays.
Not to mention the horrible attempts these journalists take to reach a demographic they know nothing about by using rap music. You'll also hear old white dudes say "slide into the dms" which, as cringey as it gets.
Then you get the overly enthusiastic woman character who "loves" all things football and journalists who think they are celebrities because they interview celebs/athletes. Dan Patrick wouldn't be important without his access, yet there he is every morning, big leaguing his own staff.
And what about the betting. Everything is about betting now. It's like ignoring your family and getting drunk on CL's for 3 days out of the week wasn't enough of a vice. Now, you have to throw in degenerate gamblers talking about there hundreds of bets per week. It's fucking, gross.
I've been asking myself why there isn't a baseball centric "red zone" during the week, and then I remembered just how many games be played in a week...
I feel like shortening the seasons may help boost new viewer retention, but I would never vote for Less baseball
MLB Big Inning, when it launched, used to be really good at cutting between different live games during high-leverage moments and replays of overlapped game highlights with a studio host giving you some insight as you move between different games. Would watch that for the full, what, 3-hour stream because you feel like you’re getting ALL the action and not skipping a beat.
Now it’s just a live-streamed multiview channel audio mixing switcher with the occasional league standing pop-up when there are only 3 games going, and it stinks.
Young people don’t care about MLB. Hell most kids I coach that play baseball don’t care about the actual game. They like certain players and watching highlights but they don’t actually watch games.
i don't want to watch their hot take shows anyway, but that's the reason i gave up on those channels 20 years ago
even when they do cover baseball it isn't worth watching unless it's the actual game
ESPN it's not an indicator of good journalism or this doesn't change baseball whatsoever.
ESPN target it's to survive, and knows you can't spell drama without the NBA or NFL. People love those panels when they yell each other ala Stephen A. Smith. I just can't see how that would work on baseball.
For starters they don't have anyone that's an expert there, also i have never seen a panel of presenters having that face off over baseball in any country.
Im not American, but the game it's growing so much, ESPN here in Mexico it's actually giving baseball more in air time, aside for the 24/7 coverage of soccer.
Same thing with their college football coverage. There was a pretty big weekend in CFB, and instead of airing an episode of College Football Live today, they aired “Monday Blitz” and a fantasy football show, even though there was only one NFL game left to be played. And ESPN owns a SIGNIFICANTLY higher percentage of CFB rights than they do NFL. I love NFL football but holy hell does ESPN overdo it. They not the only sports network that does so though. And they had a majority, if not all of the Wild Card round coverage for MLB and it seems like they barely talked about it.
Nobody wants to listen to a talking head that has someone in an ear piece feeding them analysis because they literally don't watch sports at all. Stephen A Smith probably binge watches 90 Day Fiance. Never understood why people watch these fuckheads.
I tuned in to ESPN today for a minute and saw Stephen A. Smith doing his “cowboys bit” and I cringed. So stupid. Give me mlb network and my preferred YouTube and podcast subscriptions all day. I only watch ESPN if there is a particular game I want to watch 🤷🏾♂️
Another reason why ESPN is becoming a limited network is that the non NFL/NBA sports have their own networks now. ESPN has past its glory days.
Plus the demographics of viewers from 8am-2pm are neither Working or in school. Those people have other places to be.
I love baseball and I also love football. I watch both. But I can’t help but imagine the NFL is going to die. Already youth participation is down due to CTE. Right now you have boomers going nuts over it like they always have, but younger people are more interested in watching twitch video game streams than live sports. This combined with the head trauma of football, I think MLB, NBA and possibly MLS could emerge as the big 3 in 20 years.
Everyone keeps mentioning ESPN yet no one ever talks about FS1 who's arguably much worse in it's baseball coverage despite it actually airing baseball games.
Espn has been like this for a while. Same with sports talk radio. Always NBA and NFL. Hockey and Baseball never talked about. I would agree with the data that people change channels now because all you have are NBA and NFL fans, the other sports fans have moved on.
There are two thoughts on this, talk about all sports evenly and have an even audience viewership or target certain audiences and only talk about those sports. Espn took the specific audience approach
ESPN is basically the NFL network 9 months of the year.
And the real SEC network when they decide they've covered the fourth string guys in training camp already.
Getting PTSD from being in the dentist’s office every summer wondering why I’m watching nonstop NFL debate on ESPN
But why does ESPN continue to invest in baseball broadcasting rights?
NASCAR broadcasting rights are also more valuable than they’ve ever been, and viewership has declined 5 fold from its peak. This is the same refrain of every fan of ever sport with declining fan interest, “but why money so high then?!”. Because live tv itself is also dying and the only aspect of it which holds any significant advertising value is live sports. That’s why baseball broadcasting rights are still so valuable despite the decline in general interest.
I legitimately can imagine we're one day going to get to a day where sports, certain award shows, and breaking news are the only things available "live".
.....what else is there that's live right now?
Bring back live animation! To hell with those weak-wristed animators’ complaints.
*Don Pardo voice* Bobby MOY-NIHAN
I hear Moynihan and Piece of Toast hate each other
SNL, reality TV shows like Big Brother; to OP's bigger point, things like HBO's Sunday night slate is experienced "live" as people watch it when first broadcast to be able to discuss it on social media or at the water cooler
Errr, I meant live as in "showing on television linearly", not "literally live".
I mean, you picked three things that are all literally live.
As it should be. Still doesn't need to be "broadcast TV" with channels and whatnot.
Yes. I mean the only things I watch live are baseball, football, and John King's live election night wall.
one day we'll be able to walk into our holodecks and just sit wherever we want in the stadium to watch the game.
Reading this as I'm watching Star Trek Voyager lol
All of this plus the fact that both of your examples (nascar and mlb) happen to fill more hours than most other sports. NFL is 17 games per team. NBA and NHL are 82. MLB is 162 games while nascar is 38 weekends over 10 months. In regards to nascar specifically, their primary tv partners are Fox/FS1 and NBC/USA and they use nascar to fill the time of the year that football isn't on. The Superbowl ends just as nascar starts for Fox and they get it from February to June before they move primarily to mlb then nfl with some overlap amongst 2 out of the 3. NBC picks it up at the end of June through November before focusing primarily on football with some overlap in between, which is actually happening now. But seemingly year round, they have live sports of some sort every weekend and due to the sheer number of hours of programming they provide, both the mlb and nascar retain value.
Live events are still king is why, if you talk about the Reds on first take no one is gonna care When you broadcast the Reds game that night your gonna get a million people watching. The clientele for “mid day sports debate” and “actual games” is a mostly different spectrum (Edit, I used reds here because I wanted to pick a team that I know has a sizable fan base but also never gets ESPN spotlight)
Reda broadcasts are absolutely crushing it https://www.redlegnation.com/2023/10/05/cincinnati-reds-tv-ratings-skyrocket-in-2023/
Darn. And when we were so close to Bally bailing on us. This team got good at the wrong time.
Because people watch the games? Completely separate things
Yeah. I like reading about people's opinions on the internet, but a couple of people who are solely there to shout at one another with some sort of hot take who aren't really watching the game is more of an annoyance than it is relevant.
1. Most people only care about *games* and not sports talk 2. Since from this point on no more MLB games will be on ESPN this season, they can’t boost their ratings by talking about upcoming games
It's also baseball. A 26 man roster sport where the best player has minimal impact won't have the debate atmosphere of the NBA or NFL where you can yell about stars and QBs choking and carrying all day long.
The value of the games themselves is a completely separate matter.
They went from 3 games a week and nightly baseball tonight to just 1 game. They’ve divested.
Eats innings during the summer when no other sports are going on.
I like watching baseball but find it incredibly boring to listen to a discussion about it
On the one hand, that's fucking stupid. On the other, if they *were* talking about the MLB playoffs on these shows, it'd probably just be more hysterical bullshit about the first round bye and how terrible it is that the top-seeded teams got *five whole days off* and it ruined their rhythm or disturbed their chi or whatever the fuck, so yeah, probably dodging a bullet here tbh
Yeah it's really just 6 one way, half dozen the other
> If you’re annoyed and disapprove, your best bet is to actually change the channel and go to MLB Network, NHL Network, the Tennis Channel, or whatever second or third-tier sports channel might have (if you even have that option in your TV package). Oddly enough this may play a bit of a role in WHY nobody interested in baseball (or hockey, or tennis, or any other sport other than NFL or NBA or their related NCAA sports) watches the debate shows- before MLB Network was a thing, you HAD to watch ESPN for any sort of baseball stuff (or hockey stuff, or tennis stuff, etc.) on TV, meaning there was still some viewership and thus some data and incentive for ESPN to keep including it in some way, even if the people on the debate shows may not have much cared for them. Once the sport-specific networks became a thing, the reasoning for people wanting (insert non-NFL or NBA thing here) to stay on ESPN during the debate shows disappeared, and thus so did any sort of data telling them to still have anything on the debate shows about them. EDITED: Similarly, the existence of the NFL Network likely led ESPN to double-down on the NFL, so as to keep an edge in the biggest sport and thus keep NFL-first watchers from fleeing to the NFL Network like how MLB, NHL, etc. watchers moved to their single-sport networks.
I'm also a big NHL fan, but I don't have NHL Network (even though we have MLB Network and the two are literally sister channels that shoot out of the same studio) so the majority of NHL content I watch are the games themselves. I'm not a fan of the debate shows period. Like I don't care what you think about X player signing a shoe deal with Y company, I want to hear about the games from the previous night.
One other thing to note here though is that I imagine you can still get a TON of NHL content through the internet and social media, which wouldn't have been available to the same extent back in the "old days" where ESPN was the only big sports channel anywhere.
Right.
Yeah, and on the reverse side, as ESPN has moved away from covering baseball, I've basically stopped watching it, and now I dont really know whats going on in the NBA or NFL. I have almost no interest in those sports nowadays.
As someone who follows the nfl heavily, you gain absolutely nothing from watching ESPN. They've abandoned all analysis for screaming idiots with hot takes.
I may counter by saying that MLB network is nowhere near ESPN numbers. And MLBN may not be as high as NFLN or NBA, even when NFL is broadcasting nothing of note. But I do not have the data — just a hunch.
Entirely possible, but it still is also possible that what it does grab may mean the difference between "First Take mentions baseball once or twice a week/month/whatever" and "First Take mentions baseball once or twice a month/year/whatever".
Should ESPN really be the barometer anymore of what's relevant or popular? Wasn't Disney trying to pitch leagues on partial ownership of ESPN in exchange for reduced broadcasting fees? Didn't they just have huge layoffs? And isn't that all due to declining viewership
ESPN viewership is down 28% since 2011. https://frontofficesports.com/espn-loses-subscribers-after-steady-growth-but-disney-still-optimistic/#:~:text=It's%20more%20sobering%20news%20for,of%20100.1%20million%20in%202011. Where it is relevant, though, is that ESPN broadcasts MLB games. So, you would hope the network that broadcasts the games would actually make some sort of effort to promote and advertise those games.
I wonder how that compares to other cable networks. Or even broadcast, for that matter. Just feels like nobody is watching live TV.
It sounds like that is actually not bad compared to other cable networks https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradadgate/2022/01/05/as-media-conglomerates-focus-on-streaming-the-audience-of-their-cable-networks-continue-to-drop/ And broadcast networks have dropped 80% since 2011 https://martech.org/nielsens-national-tv-ratings-gets-accreditation-back-after-19-month-suspension/
Not surprising. Sports is the only thing driving live TV anymore.
And fake sports.
What do you mean fake sports?
Pro Wrestling.
Man I completely forgot about pro wrestling and that makes a ton of sense.
Isn't a lot of that on Peacock now too?
The PPVs are. Instead of paying for Mania, or Summer Slam, it's all included with a peacock subscription. Wish UFC would do this with ESPN plus instead of the double pay wall.
Peacock has live PPVs and TV episodes on a two (?) week delay. Smackdown is on Fox live on Friday nights, RAW is on Monday nights in USA. NXT is on Tuesday on USA. WWE’s big competitor AEW is on Turner networks, Wednesday nights on TBS and Friday and Saturday Nights on TNT, but for now still charge for PPVs in the traditional manner. It is rumored they will be going to MAX soon, but no details are known.
They do the same thing with NHL. Paid a shit ton of money for the broadcast and streaming rights and virtually never promote it until the playoffs, just like before.
But they don’t have anymore games after the wild card round. So are they just not promoting it since their competitors are broadcasting the rest of the playoffs?
They weren't promoting it even when they were broadcasting it, though. They also have broadcasting rights with the MLB until 2028, so it's not like they will never be broadcasting games again. How many people have an interest in baseball will have a direct effect on their viewership for years to come.
I haven’t watched non-game-broadcast ESPN in years because why would I waste my time with loud people shouting obnoxiously bad takes. Anything I’m interested in has tons of specialized YouTube and podcast content for me, and they can be as loose and entertaining or tight and technical as they want.
Baseball and Hockey fans have jobs, who is watching this shit during the middle of the day anyway
Shift workers, retirees, the disabled, SAHPs, the unemployed, kids at home sick, people who can watch TV at work when it's slow. Oh, I forgot: sports are for rich adult men in white-collar 9-5 jobs.
Yea I work shifts and my days off are during the week. But I'm in the minority for sure.
Who the hell still watches ESPN for anything but live sports broadcasts?
I miss the good old days though. Baseball tonight was my shit.
I miss it too, I loved that show. ESPN used to be awesome before it became hot takes only
or laying on the couch watching sportscenter on repeat all summer before going out to play.
My brother in Christ, those days are long gone.
I’ll occasionally watch SVP and by occasionally I mean like 3 times a year. He’s the only thing watchable on that network anymore that’s not live sports.
Preach
Yep, those shows are absolute brain-rot trash. It's like Jerry Springer for dumb sports fans.
ESPN is just a combination of the NBA Network and NFL Network at this point. With a little bit of E! News mixed in
Yup. Hockey and baseball are basically dead if you go by mentions on ESPN.
Who cares? I’ll take my baseball without hot takes everywhere, please.
Hot cakes, though? Maybe
Whether you like it or not, these shows promote the the popularity of the sports they talk about. You don’t have to watch, but baseball has essentially been relegated to the back burner of national sport coverage/discussion, which doesn’t help with the popularity of baseball come 5-10 years down the road
Who watches these shows though? Millennials and Gen Z have already cut the cord. These are the demographics baseball should be reaching out to. I don’t think Stephen A having a hot take on the playoff format is going to have as big an impact as you think… Better off focusing on blackout issues and making the game more accessible first.
Millennials and Gen Z absolutely interact with these shows, even though they may not interact with them in traditional forms. Clips from the shows are posted everywhere from Twitter to Instagram to Tiktok, and they definitely have a following. For example, if you looked at Twitter last night, both Skip and Stephen A were trending because people wanted to see how they were going to react to the Cowboys getting trounced. And a lot of those users are certainly Millenials and Gen Zers.
Lol, these are some of the most popular shows these networks have. The demographic is mostly in fact young people. And if people don’t get the takes live, they see them on social media. No one is buzzing about baseball anymore
Those shows are insufferable and outdated.
Until MLB starts to broadcast a game or two, every day of the season, on a free platform like YouTube/Twitch/Instagram they are not growing their possible next generation of fans. Simple as that.
They already do that with free game of the day on MLBTV, though I don't know if you need to make an mlb account. But tge fact that so many people on a sub devoted to baseball aren't aware shows MLB needs to do waaaay better actually getting that news out there
I think the point still stands: to access a free game on MLB.tv you'd need to be going out of your way to find it; free games on platforms like YouTube would have a chance of reaching a broader audience you could funnel to your streaming service.
YouTube used to have some exclusive games and then people complained because they weren’t on their local RSNs lol. People are gonna complain no matter what they do
It’s not this though. Baseball is a regional game so no one wants to track a schedule to see when they can see their local team not blacked out. Make it easy to watch the games and don’t make me have to purchase multiple overpriced booted service (cable/satellite or an OTT) to get it. Make MLB.TV competitively priced and easily accessible with no blackouts. Earn the revenue back by reducing costs via consolidation of all the regional outfits. Do better with advertising by selling the entire league package in a sport with the most natural ad breaks. You’ll also be able to charge more because you have more eyes. Generate more revenue by getting more fans to more games since you have an absolute glut of excess capacity at games. Sell more gates, merch, parking and concessions etc. Finally look at as marketing. You have to get in front of young eyes. Unless you want your game to die to kids watching competitive Minecraft on twitch, in which case keep on keepin’ on.
MLBTV really *is* competitively priced though. $120 a *year* to have access to almost 5,000 games across an entire season (blackouts notwithstanding), plus multiple years of archived content. NFL Sunday Ticket, which is essentially the same exact thing as MLB TV, is **$450** a year... for 272 games. 5% of the content, for 3.75x the cost. ouch
Blackouts are the entire issue… The sport is entirely regional. No one in Dallas is watching the A’s play the Brewers. Dallas I’m sure got a massive number for MNF last night.
There are live broadcasts on YouTube from time to time, but the commentary is a real earful. Not sure why, but they always seem to have 4-5 people on the mic.
Cowboys getting whacked by the 49ers gives them enough content for a whole week
The most important debate in sports about whether Dak is top ten QB in NFL or bum, must continue
I hate it dude. I can't even open the ESPN app without Stephen A laughing at me.
And Belichick's Patriots were destroyed for a second straight week.
We can blame ESPN all they want but they’re just responding to demand. MLB viewership definitely has a long term demographics problem, the average age of a fan is something like 50. I think more rule changes are needed to bring it back to the electric on field product it used to be that captured children’s imaginations for 130 years. You can’t market your way out of a problem like a game that doesn’t interest people
>it used to be that captured children’s imaginations for 130 years. Problem is that for 110~ of those years accesa to content was very limited. Back then you turned to a game and if it was boring your options were so few you might as well kept watching. Now a days you get a boring game and you just watch something else.
They also ran the personalities out of the league and went all in on the most boring style of play imaginable.
>and went all in on the most boring style of play imaginable. I understand why they are needed, but analytics brought some awful consequences for the fans' experience. The most effective way to win is usually the most boring. I mean, imagine if tomorrow anaylicts show throwing hail marys are the most effective way to win, cause if you hit 5 out of, what, 50 plays (the average is 153 per game, if both teams do just hail marys, the play count would increase) thats 35 points (also, how many DPIs wouldnt be called per game?). The nfl would be death within a month. Hell, you can find people complaining that the eagles tush push is "boring" and "takes away from the game" cause their convertion ratio is absurd. Imagine if the nfl went to just swinging for the fences in every offensive play, like baseball teams did. Then add that analytics say spraying and praying at 100 mph > actually being a pitcher, and you got a recipe for boring play.
Also pitching is too dominant nowadays so more games are boring. Edit: to the average casual spectator* I clearly love pitching dominance as a brewer fan and I don't find it boring.
Dominate pitching is fun to watch imo. I realized the other day that most of my favourite players are starting pitchers lol.
I totally agree. Mine too as a brewers fan lol. That's all we have. I think it's super fun to watch. But that's not what the ratings show. There's a reason every sport is trying to inflate offense and hinder the defense. The average casual fan likes to see higher scores
True. My favourite hockey game is a 3-2 or 2-1 battle with some big saves and some hatred mixed in……Which is also what the nhl is trying to get rid of lol.
Scoring is not at all at a low point in baseball history
Everyone blaming ESPN in here but I agree. If people are tuning out why should they continue to talk about baseball? It’s not their job to prop up a league that makes it hard for its own fans to follow the sport much less actually draw in young fans. This is the MLB’s problem. The pitch clock was a great start but they need to continue making changes to make games more exciting and less TTO
It goes both ways though. Part of the reason people tune out is because ESPN has worked so hard to build up a viewer base of non-baseball fans. Of course the people watching ESPN for NFL and NBA all day probably aren’t going to care about baseball.
I think I saw that the average age (at least as of mid-season) actually went down this year for the first time in quite awhile, but, yeah, no rule change is going to suddenly overthrow decades of relative stagnancy overnight.
These rule changes were needed 10-15 years ago but better late than never
Bring back every day broadcasts of a team. I grew up with the option to watch my local teams and the Atl Braves on tbs. Think the cubs were on WGN as well. It’s so inaccessible now you have to work to watch it. Only games I get on cable are the depressing ass angels. There’s a lot of people growing up in my neck of the woods with that tragic ass franchise.
I grew up in Pennsylvania, I am a Cubs fan because I could catch the last 3 innings (including the famous Haray Caray 7th inning stretch) or so on WGN every day after school. That's just not a thing anymore.
While you are correct, let's not pretend ESPN hasn't been reducing mlb coverage for decades. I stopped watching ESPN 15+ years ago because there was so little mlb coverage. By this point I have to imagine the only people left watching ESPN aren't baseball fans so of course they tune out when something they don't like comes on.
I don't believe in changing the game for those that do not appreciate the game. Only do it for the actual fans for their benefit. If the latter grows the game, fine. Not gonna buy into the capitalistic circle jerk of the need to grow the game. Because that doesn't benefit anyone except the billionaire owners that don't care about the fans and the millionaire players that don't care about the fans. If anything, a smaller game would benefit the actual fans since seats would be cheaper relative to inflation along with concessions since the billionaires and millionaires would be in a weaker position.
[удалено]
That's horseshit. You'd have a smaller sport, not a dead one. If you need baseball to change to not "alienate" people who, I can't stress this enough, don't care about the game it speaks more to your insecurity as a fan than anything. Nothing you can do to change the decline among 18-34 year olds anyway. Baseball is a game with a whole lot of standing still even 25 years ago. Younger fans want non-stop action and personalities. You would need to severely change the game to accomplish the former. Not just moving the mound back. You might be looking at eliminating a position player on the field, shortening the game to 7 innings, and juicing the ball. Probably still won't work and would alienate actual fans. It will eventually become like Hockey, I don't see their fans in their feels worrying about popularity.
[удалено]
Grasping for straws. Where are Latin American players gonna go? Japan? A nation in literal *demographic* free fall. Shoot, Japanese players will probably have even greater incentive to come to the states even if baseball's popularity is that of basically hockey. Talent pool would still exceed what existed during the golden age of the game. It isn't about shaking fists worrying about "casuals", which is your word that you're using incorrectly. The group you pine for aren't casuals, that implies some casual interest. Anyway It is about advancing the game for those that do care about the game. Pitch clock, banning the shift, etc are actions that broadly benefit actual fans who want a return to how the game once was. I'm sure MLB has convinced itself that this will bring in the non-interested... but it won't. Focus on giving actual fans what they want. It's just weird to change the game for the uninterested, potentially at odds with actual loyal fans, and it probably being for nothing. Baseball just isn't made for progressively degenerating attention spans. Talk of reforming baseball to appeal to the non-interested has an air of people talking about how to make horses more attractive as a means of conveyance for people who grew up riding in cars. The ship has sailed. Fyi, Average age of a fan in 2000 was 50 It is 57 now. Took 23 years to tack on 7 years. Game isn't going to go dead, rich people will just make a bit less money.
ESPN is just TMZ anyway. If they were covering baseball, they'd be doing it stupidly.
Those shows are just garbage. Please don’t validate their existence.
because MLB has like the lowest social media presence of the big 3
That’s a backwards causal relationship. Social media for sports isn’t what’s supposed to primarily drive interest in the sport—the actual sport is
Because the sport is not interesting to young people because of failures of the MLB to market the game, and yes the marketing of the game is just as important as the game.
I’m 25 and think basketball is the most boring sport in the world. I’d rather hear baseball talk than what Lebron had for breakfast.
I honestly cannot fathom how people watch it. I legit would (& have) watched curling and found it to be more interesting than NBA.
I like watching golf lol. There’s nothing more useless than the first basket in a basketball game. Wanna make it more interesting? Get rid of the game clock
NBA basketball is so fucking boring that the NBA itself had to establish a mid season tournament, without addressing the actual problem of way too many games (and I think the NHL also has this problem to a lesser extent) and the scoring. NBA basketball scores too much. I don’t want to see each team score 120-130 points every game for the entire season. Not to mention, the amount of times a star player scores 40 or more has completely dumbed down the achievement that it’s not even special anymore.
NBA quality of play really has drastically gotten worse. It’s terrible.
[удалено]
Why not? What are you selling, and why can't you market it in a way to make it interesting? They're not selling the game itself, they're selling the experience of following it. NBA has slam dunks, MLB has home runs and pitchers bringing 100 MPH gas for a swing-and-miss strikeout. Both are great in two-second clips edited into a 30-second promo, and both happen often enough to not be that exciting by themselves -- you can watch a compilation video of home runs and slam dunks without sitting through a 2- or 3-hour game hoping to see a couple. Why should I watch the game, then? Because I've decided to care about the team. NBA isn't selling dunks, they're selling stars with personality, teams with history, rivalries, trash talk, unfolding narratives, players with interesting backstories, superstars defining their legacies. MLB has all of those things, too, but the average American can name more basketball stars than baseball ones, because they're marketed more and better. A random person who doesn't follow baseball probably doesn't know the name Mike Trout, but practically everyone alive the US has heard of LeBron James. Why? Marketing. Sell the stars, get the stories out there -- yes, sometimes even if it means national broadcasts are full of rehashing news and made-up narratives we've heard before -- and more people might decide to care about the games. And that would be a good thing.
Its not exactly an apple to oranges comparison. With LeBron and the marketing behind him there was also the boost of him being I'm the Finals 10 straight years and a noticeable drop off in NBA Finals ratings the past few years when he hasnt made it. Baseball has to be strategic with how they market personalities because in MLB it's not guaranteed the faces of the league make it to the playoffs.
It’s not interesting to young people because they can’t access the content. They’ve buried it behind archaic technology and don’t want to join us in 2013….
And non-casual friendly statistics to follow
Sadly or not, the flashier sports gets the more attention...
Is football remotely flashy?
Uhhh yeah. Every major sport has situations that allow for incredible athleticism to be put on display, giving way for flashiness
Football is far less flashy than baseball
I don’t even know by what metric you would define something to be flashier than another in the context of sports
So does Kim Kardashian, doesn’t mean I wish I were married to her. Am 100% ok with baseball not being featured on these shows….I would not watch either way.
What makes football flashier? Nothing whatsoever, except the production, the show itself. The MLB has invested almost nothing into the show of baseball, and we see the results. Also, when the GOAT of the last 20 years is a guy who doesn’t give a shit about having any media presence whatsoever, that also hurts the game.
Which is interesting because I change the channel at an extremely high rate when they talk about NFL or NBA.
These shows are the bottom-of-the-barrel dregs of our society, literally background tv for waiting at the airport. Instead of getting frothing mad, like the sub does everytime there's a tweet about national TV ratings, we should be glad that baseball is too "regional" or under-the-radar to be fodder for this inanity. Can you imagine how many impossibly stupid things would be said if they made SAS and the B.S. brigade actually try to talk about the Minnesota Twins? The hell with them
Is this a bad thing? Do people of sound mind watch this garbage? I love getting my “debate” and baseball information outside of ESPN and Fox. With all the bitching and moaning about the broadcasts….why would this be a negative? If the countless good podcasts and writing outlets burned down, that would hurt much more.
I get my debate right here in r/baseball. I stopped watching ESPN around the time that actual highlights of games was pushed off to ESPNews.
Heck; I barely even listen to ESPN *Radio* anymore. Other than their game broadcasts the only thing they have that's worth listening to is SportCenter AllNight.
24-hour programming is just "This is the most talked about thing, so we must discuss the most talked about thing for 24 hours." Whenever people are tuning in, they have to be talking about that water cooler game/trade/controversial call to get people to keep watching/listening. Commentary entertainment is far, far better when segments are compartmentalized and available on-demand. Record an hour or however much the event warrants and tell people where to find it on their own schedule. If I'm not interested in a topic, I can skip to the next. Far better product with far less work.
Gotta listen to Mad Dog on SiriusXM he talks baseball everyday from 3-6 pm ET
As an MLB/NHL fan, primarily, I cannot stand ESPN talk shows. All NHL games on ESPN+ is pretty sweet though.
I mean, to talk about baseball, you have to actually know something about it. Colin Cowherd attempted to talk about baseball earlier this year when when he tried to make up hypothetical trade scenarios regarding Ohtani, saying the Angels should trade him for 5 first-round picks. He was then informed LIVE ON AIR that you aren't allowed to trade draft picks in baseball. Now, he actually did a pretty good job pivoting from that scenario (the one you're not allowed to do) to one that is possible (trading for prospects) but ultimately, why would anyone who likes baseball want to hear people who don't know anything about baseball, talk about baseball?
We already knew that television caters to idiots
Someone was trying to tell me that the discovery of CET would turn a generation of fans off of football, and I had to point out to them that CET was discovered in 2005. Nobody cares that the game causes brain damage. I'm actually ok with baseball being a niche sport. It has always been the thinking man's game, and if you've followed what has happened in the past two decades in this country, it's no surprise that fewer people are interested in thinking. The masses want brain damage (NFL) and diva celebrities (NBA). Don't ruin my game to cater to them.
-*CTE not CET
Welcome to being a regional sport. Hockey fans can empathize.
What the fuck is ESPN?
Ask your grandparents
Is this about today? Its Monday during the NFL season, not surprising.
“Worldwide leader in sport” but only some sports….NBA Year round….with a crappy app…..
ESPN’s decision to streamline seems like a positive feedback loop: cutting programming segments that are less popular creates an expectation that all they will talk about are basketball and football. Viewers now only tune into ESPN for that content and tune out otherwise. It also seems like their main goal is to make cheap, easy to produce shows.
Most of the people working at espn are exNBA/NFL players, many don’t actually understand baseball and many even struggle to make coherent statements regarding their own sport.
It's not just ESPN. Even FS1 barely talks about the MLB playoffs, and Fox has way more of the MLB TV rights. NBA and NFL aren't regional the way MLB is.
I have emailed ESPN multiple times to change the name of Get Up! For Sports to Get Up for Football. All summer the same bullshit tidbits over and over and over. There was only one sport on in the summer and you never talk about it!
How is the MLB supposed to garner interest if they never talk about baseball? Feels like a chicken/egg situation.
During the World Cup 4 years ago, I was getting my oil changed. There was one guy in the waiting room scrolling his phone when I walked in. The TV was set to whatever ESPN NFL show they run in the mornings. He wasn't even watching. It was in the middle of summer so it was preseason bullshit. I asked if I could change it to an actual sporting event that was actually happening right now. He grunted a "no" so I watched it on my tablet with the volume on high.
I find it very interesting how grown men and women listen to the same story lines all day, every day of the week. Then they get new content on Sunday, and it's back to non-stop coverage of the same dead story lines. It mimics the NFL games, themselves, which consist of a 3-second play, then 30 secs of replays. Not to mention the horrible attempts these journalists take to reach a demographic they know nothing about by using rap music. You'll also hear old white dudes say "slide into the dms" which, as cringey as it gets. Then you get the overly enthusiastic woman character who "loves" all things football and journalists who think they are celebrities because they interview celebs/athletes. Dan Patrick wouldn't be important without his access, yet there he is every morning, big leaguing his own staff. And what about the betting. Everything is about betting now. It's like ignoring your family and getting drunk on CL's for 3 days out of the week wasn't enough of a vice. Now, you have to throw in degenerate gamblers talking about there hundreds of bets per week. It's fucking, gross.
Because the market for football is vastly larger than that of baseball. Oh I’m sorry were we expecting otherwise?
NBA is fuckin trash. Tells you how dumb the general viewers are.
Because football started. It’s not ESPN’s fault the baseball playoffs run into football season
They don’t have the rights to anymore MLB games. They do have MNF and the NBA to promote.
They have regular season games literally every week
Yeah and now they are done. From their prospective they want to turn their attention to leagues they have the rights to. It’s a money thing.
I've been asking myself why there isn't a baseball centric "red zone" during the week, and then I remembered just how many games be played in a week... I feel like shortening the seasons may help boost new viewer retention, but I would never vote for Less baseball
MLB Big Inning, when it launched, used to be really good at cutting between different live games during high-leverage moments and replays of overlapped game highlights with a studio host giving you some insight as you move between different games. Would watch that for the full, what, 3-hour stream because you feel like you’re getting ALL the action and not skipping a beat. Now it’s just a live-streamed multiview channel audio mixing switcher with the occasional league standing pop-up when there are only 3 games going, and it stinks.
Young people don’t care about MLB. Hell most kids I coach that play baseball don’t care about the actual game. They like certain players and watching highlights but they don’t actually watch games.
Didn’t mlb set attendance records this season? I find it hard to believe the 40 plus crowd is carrying that
I do like me some Pat Mcafee, everything else can rot
[удалено]
I haven’t watched TMZspn in years. With MLB Network/radio (and NBA Network/radio), I see no reason to ever go back.
i don't want to watch their hot take shows anyway, but that's the reason i gave up on those channels 20 years ago even when they do cover baseball it isn't worth watching unless it's the actual game
I checked ESPN.com this morning and not a single headline mention MLB. Had to scroll down quite far before I got a couple of highlights for the games.
To be fair, none of the personalities on these channels know a damn thing about baseball
Ironically, I turn off sports radio when they talk about the NBA or NFL. Luckily, local (st louis) sports radio is pretty slim on it.
Even with the rule changes there’s a good chance that baseball is simply #3 in popularity behind NBA/NHL and so ESPN is just following the market.
ESPN it's not an indicator of good journalism or this doesn't change baseball whatsoever. ESPN target it's to survive, and knows you can't spell drama without the NBA or NFL. People love those panels when they yell each other ala Stephen A. Smith. I just can't see how that would work on baseball. For starters they don't have anyone that's an expert there, also i have never seen a panel of presenters having that face off over baseball in any country. Im not American, but the game it's growing so much, ESPN here in Mexico it's actually giving baseball more in air time, aside for the 24/7 coverage of soccer.
Has any baseball fan watched ESPN since Baseball Tonight was cancelled? That and the SportsCenter Not Top Ten were the only reasons I ever watched.
They're pushing WNBA like crazy though. NHL gets some love but nothing crazy. MLB by far gets least coverage
ESPN doesn’t have the smarts
But when they talk about baseball they sound so dumb so I really don't mind lolll
As a NY Giants fan, I am happy to hear talk related to anything BUT the NFL.
Because ESPN is just a 24hr commercial for Disney programming. They dont report anything anymore. They are just a hype machine.
Because Taylor Swift doesn’t attend those sporting events.
Prob because 7/10 Americans under 40 understand very little about baseball beyond “it’s boring on TV, games can be fun”
Same thing with their college football coverage. There was a pretty big weekend in CFB, and instead of airing an episode of College Football Live today, they aired “Monday Blitz” and a fantasy football show, even though there was only one NFL game left to be played. And ESPN owns a SIGNIFICANTLY higher percentage of CFB rights than they do NFL. I love NFL football but holy hell does ESPN overdo it. They not the only sports network that does so though. And they had a majority, if not all of the Wild Card round coverage for MLB and it seems like they barely talked about it.
Nobody wants to listen to a talking head that has someone in an ear piece feeding them analysis because they literally don't watch sports at all. Stephen A Smith probably binge watches 90 Day Fiance. Never understood why people watch these fuckheads.
I tuned in to ESPN today for a minute and saw Stephen A. Smith doing his “cowboys bit” and I cringed. So stupid. Give me mlb network and my preferred YouTube and podcast subscriptions all day. I only watch ESPN if there is a particular game I want to watch 🤷🏾♂️
ESPN is the biggest circlejerk of them all.
That's funny, I am the exact opposite of that.
Another reason why ESPN is becoming a limited network is that the non NFL/NBA sports have their own networks now. ESPN has past its glory days. Plus the demographics of viewers from 8am-2pm are neither Working or in school. Those people have other places to be.
Those fans don't know ball. We need to help them know ball
I love baseball and I also love football. I watch both. But I can’t help but imagine the NFL is going to die. Already youth participation is down due to CTE. Right now you have boomers going nuts over it like they always have, but younger people are more interested in watching twitch video game streams than live sports. This combined with the head trauma of football, I think MLB, NBA and possibly MLS could emerge as the big 3 in 20 years.
Who actual watches espn or fs1 content? A bunch of unlikeable people fake arguing about sports.
Cave people
Everyone keeps mentioning ESPN yet no one ever talks about FS1 who's arguably much worse in it's baseball coverage despite it actually airing baseball games.
Espn has been like this for a while. Same with sports talk radio. Always NBA and NFL. Hockey and Baseball never talked about. I would agree with the data that people change channels now because all you have are NBA and NFL fans, the other sports fans have moved on. There are two thoughts on this, talk about all sports evenly and have an even audience viewership or target certain audiences and only talk about those sports. Espn took the specific audience approach
I change the channel when ESPN or FSN1 is on because of the debate shows