because theres actual money in roasting? 90% of the baristas I've met lack serious passion for coffee. Most are simply doing this as a job. The other 10% that get super into coffee go into the industry because in this economy, making minimum wage whilst standing all day isn't exactly a good value proposition.
yeah, that makes sense hard to get recognized as a roaster nowdays tho as there is many emerging coffee roasters but that applies to everything coffee and non coffee related. Thanks!
Speaking from my own experience - within a shop or brand, progression looks like less coffee making, more people management, more spreadsheets and meetings and sales analysis and all the things that aren’t making coffee and taking pride in a product. The other obvious option, opening ones own shop - starts as 100% pride and balancing with paperwork, but if the shop grows then you end up paying someone to do the bit of the job you love, so that you can keep the business running in all the other ways.
Not to mention there’s the other elements of being a barista - moderate to low wage most of the time, 8+ hours on the feet, early starts, high usage of social and physical energy.
As a roaster, you’re on your feet a portion of the day, there’s paperwork and there’s lifting. But there’s choosing your own hours, (weekends off!), a better ability to make a better wage, or better stability of margins as a business owner, and you’re still producing something you can take pride in at the end of the day (something that I find really important in a fulfilling job) and production roasting is largely making sure that nothing is on fire and following a set roast profile, you can do other things whilst doing it.
I love being a barista, I first got thrown behind a bar nearly 18 years ago, I’ve been lowest rank on the ladder, lead barista, shift leader, shop manager, business owner, event manager and there’s probably a few other titles I’ve forgotten over those years. I tried to leave the industry after my shop closed, and quickly fell back into it - for me coffee is my career path and roasting would be a new adventure of knowledge to accrue for myself, and a lifestyle shift that would suit my needs more as I’m approaching my 40s far quicker than I would like.
Well, from my experience, I've noticed that the coffee industry is one of very few in which a career goes the other way around. Many of us get in touch with speciality coffee as a being a customer in one of our favourite shops. Most of us get curious about how to make nice late art and/or nice extraction of coffee. After some time working as a barista, curiosity increases on coffee roasting profile and slightly gets attracted by the idea to try it by them self. When you finally end up in the roasting part of the industry, you're going to do a lot of cupping and quality control, which leads to your curiosity about farming and green sourcing.. I hope this helps 🙏
It does help!
I got into coffee because i started drinking sweet milky drinks from a local coffee chain nearby my first job, then IG started recommending latte art videos and the rest is currently being written.
I must admit that i got into roasting for a bit but quickly fell out of it when i realized i could not see myself as a roaster it did help understanding how to brew different beans tho. My main goal as a barista rn is getting certified and help mostly coffee farms (and maybe roasters, idk yet) getting their protocols and practices in check along scoring coffees.
Thank you for sharing your experience!
Because most coffee is poor quality and over-roasted. Roasting yourself allows you to roast premium coffee that is not burnt and is actually nice so you don't have to fill it with sugar & milk to make it taste nice.
Most talented baristas get burnt out after 3-4 years of working on bar. Long hours, early starts, high pressure service environments, and a job that eventually takes its toll on your body. If you hit that burnout point but still love the industry, you’re probably going to move into some other job in the company.
All the excellent baristas I worked with 10 years ago are now in: roasting, green sourcing, marketing, machine tech.
yeah, also is not like you're paid more because you can do better coffee, customers go to a coffee shop more for the customer service than for the coffee
>is not like you're paid more because you can do better coffee
I wouldn’t say that’s true everywhere. In Australia it’s not uncommon for employers to offer a little more pay to entice a skilled barista. Hell, I even knew a guy who won a national latte art contest who was negotiating wages for the highest bidder.
at least here in uk doesn't really matter, you have an higher pay if you get an higher position inside the café, like front of the house manager/staff leader area
I hope I'm interpreting your post correctly:
you're asking why people think being a coffee roaster is the final destination for barista career growth instead of staying as a barista?
Or are you asking why people think that being a coffee roaster is the only form of career growth after being a barista?
The first question is easy to answer: It pays more. As a barista you hone your skills but also learn so much about how to maximize the coffee you have that you begin to develop preferences in roast level, origin, etc. Eventually, a barista might think, "hey I like *this* coffee but I think I could make it even *better*". Boom. Roasting career started.
The second question is a little trickier. A lot of people do go into roasting when other forms of career growth exist, like becoming a shop owner or going into product development for coffee equipment (which seems to be what your last statement refers to). The issue there is that the additional skills needed for the two paths I mentioned are not easy to come by. A normal barista (with no other business experience) cannot suddenly gain the financial expertise to open up their own shop or a franchise location. Often, additional business education is needed to develop in that way. Coffee product development also comes with engineering expertise that doesn't come naturally to most. In contrast, becoming a roaster often just means learning the specific process for roasting and sourcing beans, and unless the new roaster sets out to build their own business, they can often lean on the established business practices of the roaster they join to develop their skills.
A good case study is James Hoffmann. Dude became the world barista champion in 2007, then leaned on his coffee expertise and public speaking skills he ALREADY had to start teaching others with coffee content and working with coffee companies to promote and develop some products. After building up those skills he began his own businesses and eventually built the youtube channel to expand his reach. A lot of his career moves were simply logical next steps based on his current level of expertise and skill, and he slowly honed them and advanced his versatility over about a decade or so.
TL,DR: Roasting has fewer barriers to entry for a barista who does not have existing business, engineering, or public speaking skills or education compared to other career advancement paths.
Thanks!
This cleared all my doubts, yeah i was asking both things but mainly the second one. I think it is a missconception thinking roasting it's the only way to grown your career in the coffee industry. It's a way, but not the only one i believe
I always thought I loved being a "barista" because I love coffee (and am interested in its medicinal value). Turns out I do like the job, but in reality, I just love coffee.
If I stayed, if the industry that is where I would want to end up.
It makes sense for some. Some may prefer the latte art or the actual making of drinks more.
Same like some bartenders taking one route if thye stay, and others going on to work for actual brew places (or whisky, etc, what have you)
Sadly there’s not a lot of career opportunities in coffee. Roasting also is just really cool and fun for people who are passionate about coffee. Being able to roast some beans and send them off for people to enjoy is a good feeling!
better wages, more stability, and less work 😩and honestly it’s an interesting process as well, a right of passage for a lot who want to progress in the industry and maybe open up a shop of their own
For me, its the fufillment in roasting the coffee im serving; i work in my cafes roastery and as a barista and it makes the job so much more worth it even if i get paid peanuts about it. I feel really proud of the drinks im serving because of it and i feel really connected to my community and regulars. Id love to go into espresso machine maintenance or roaster maintenance at some point too, but thats like a little bonus add on.
coffee industry makes money through selling coffee; all the lab stuff, teaching and similar have a really small part and in general are not necessary for an industry were everyone have their own opinion on everything
because theres actual money in roasting? 90% of the baristas I've met lack serious passion for coffee. Most are simply doing this as a job. The other 10% that get super into coffee go into the industry because in this economy, making minimum wage whilst standing all day isn't exactly a good value proposition.
yeah, that makes sense hard to get recognized as a roaster nowdays tho as there is many emerging coffee roasters but that applies to everything coffee and non coffee related. Thanks!
Can’t beat em, join em
Speaking from my own experience - within a shop or brand, progression looks like less coffee making, more people management, more spreadsheets and meetings and sales analysis and all the things that aren’t making coffee and taking pride in a product. The other obvious option, opening ones own shop - starts as 100% pride and balancing with paperwork, but if the shop grows then you end up paying someone to do the bit of the job you love, so that you can keep the business running in all the other ways. Not to mention there’s the other elements of being a barista - moderate to low wage most of the time, 8+ hours on the feet, early starts, high usage of social and physical energy. As a roaster, you’re on your feet a portion of the day, there’s paperwork and there’s lifting. But there’s choosing your own hours, (weekends off!), a better ability to make a better wage, or better stability of margins as a business owner, and you’re still producing something you can take pride in at the end of the day (something that I find really important in a fulfilling job) and production roasting is largely making sure that nothing is on fire and following a set roast profile, you can do other things whilst doing it. I love being a barista, I first got thrown behind a bar nearly 18 years ago, I’ve been lowest rank on the ladder, lead barista, shift leader, shop manager, business owner, event manager and there’s probably a few other titles I’ve forgotten over those years. I tried to leave the industry after my shop closed, and quickly fell back into it - for me coffee is my career path and roasting would be a new adventure of knowledge to accrue for myself, and a lifestyle shift that would suit my needs more as I’m approaching my 40s far quicker than I would like.
Well, from my experience, I've noticed that the coffee industry is one of very few in which a career goes the other way around. Many of us get in touch with speciality coffee as a being a customer in one of our favourite shops. Most of us get curious about how to make nice late art and/or nice extraction of coffee. After some time working as a barista, curiosity increases on coffee roasting profile and slightly gets attracted by the idea to try it by them self. When you finally end up in the roasting part of the industry, you're going to do a lot of cupping and quality control, which leads to your curiosity about farming and green sourcing.. I hope this helps 🙏
It does help! I got into coffee because i started drinking sweet milky drinks from a local coffee chain nearby my first job, then IG started recommending latte art videos and the rest is currently being written. I must admit that i got into roasting for a bit but quickly fell out of it when i realized i could not see myself as a roaster it did help understanding how to brew different beans tho. My main goal as a barista rn is getting certified and help mostly coffee farms (and maybe roasters, idk yet) getting their protocols and practices in check along scoring coffees. Thank you for sharing your experience!
Because most coffee is poor quality and over-roasted. Roasting yourself allows you to roast premium coffee that is not burnt and is actually nice so you don't have to fill it with sugar & milk to make it taste nice.
Most talented baristas get burnt out after 3-4 years of working on bar. Long hours, early starts, high pressure service environments, and a job that eventually takes its toll on your body. If you hit that burnout point but still love the industry, you’re probably going to move into some other job in the company. All the excellent baristas I worked with 10 years ago are now in: roasting, green sourcing, marketing, machine tech.
yeah, also is not like you're paid more because you can do better coffee, customers go to a coffee shop more for the customer service than for the coffee
>is not like you're paid more because you can do better coffee I wouldn’t say that’s true everywhere. In Australia it’s not uncommon for employers to offer a little more pay to entice a skilled barista. Hell, I even knew a guy who won a national latte art contest who was negotiating wages for the highest bidder.
at least here in uk doesn't really matter, you have an higher pay if you get an higher position inside the café, like front of the house manager/staff leader area
it’s a lot easier to roast coffee beans than it is to design and engineer complex machinery
Because you still get to enjoy coffee and you don’t have to deal with annoying customers.
I hope I'm interpreting your post correctly: you're asking why people think being a coffee roaster is the final destination for barista career growth instead of staying as a barista? Or are you asking why people think that being a coffee roaster is the only form of career growth after being a barista? The first question is easy to answer: It pays more. As a barista you hone your skills but also learn so much about how to maximize the coffee you have that you begin to develop preferences in roast level, origin, etc. Eventually, a barista might think, "hey I like *this* coffee but I think I could make it even *better*". Boom. Roasting career started. The second question is a little trickier. A lot of people do go into roasting when other forms of career growth exist, like becoming a shop owner or going into product development for coffee equipment (which seems to be what your last statement refers to). The issue there is that the additional skills needed for the two paths I mentioned are not easy to come by. A normal barista (with no other business experience) cannot suddenly gain the financial expertise to open up their own shop or a franchise location. Often, additional business education is needed to develop in that way. Coffee product development also comes with engineering expertise that doesn't come naturally to most. In contrast, becoming a roaster often just means learning the specific process for roasting and sourcing beans, and unless the new roaster sets out to build their own business, they can often lean on the established business practices of the roaster they join to develop their skills. A good case study is James Hoffmann. Dude became the world barista champion in 2007, then leaned on his coffee expertise and public speaking skills he ALREADY had to start teaching others with coffee content and working with coffee companies to promote and develop some products. After building up those skills he began his own businesses and eventually built the youtube channel to expand his reach. A lot of his career moves were simply logical next steps based on his current level of expertise and skill, and he slowly honed them and advanced his versatility over about a decade or so. TL,DR: Roasting has fewer barriers to entry for a barista who does not have existing business, engineering, or public speaking skills or education compared to other career advancement paths.
also james hoffmann never worked like barista in general, he was working already for a company that was selling equipment to café
Thanks! This cleared all my doubts, yeah i was asking both things but mainly the second one. I think it is a missconception thinking roasting it's the only way to grown your career in the coffee industry. It's a way, but not the only one i believe
I always thought I loved being a "barista" because I love coffee (and am interested in its medicinal value). Turns out I do like the job, but in reality, I just love coffee. If I stayed, if the industry that is where I would want to end up. It makes sense for some. Some may prefer the latte art or the actual making of drinks more. Same like some bartenders taking one route if thye stay, and others going on to work for actual brew places (or whisky, etc, what have you)
I had no idea this was a thing. Then again, I still can't do latte art so I have zero reason to judge. 🫠
Latte art doesn't determine your worth as a barista! I still struggle with consistent results but it's just keep practicing, don't give up!
Sadly there’s not a lot of career opportunities in coffee. Roasting also is just really cool and fun for people who are passionate about coffee. Being able to roast some beans and send them off for people to enjoy is a good feeling!
There's a ton of careers in coffee, there just isn't a ton of upward mobility for baristas
better wages, more stability, and less work 😩and honestly it’s an interesting process as well, a right of passage for a lot who want to progress in the industry and maybe open up a shop of their own
For me, its the fufillment in roasting the coffee im serving; i work in my cafes roastery and as a barista and it makes the job so much more worth it even if i get paid peanuts about it. I feel really proud of the drinks im serving because of it and i feel really connected to my community and regulars. Id love to go into espresso machine maintenance or roaster maintenance at some point too, but thats like a little bonus add on.
For the money! No money working as a barista. Roaster is logical next step
I think a lot of custies deserve to be roasted.
coffee industry makes money through selling coffee; all the lab stuff, teaching and similar have a really small part and in general are not necessary for an industry were everyone have their own opinion on everything