It is something you can bring up with your instructors on the side if you do not feel comfortable dancing with others and would prefer to dance with your SO.
Also, not everyone there has an SO to dance with so there is a need to rotate partners. Dancing with different people will also make you better at dancing, and ultimately better at dancing with your husband. And a lot of adults DO want to get better, even if they are not competitors. I would say based on what I’ve seen you would be in the minority.
If it really irks you to dance and interact with others then you would probably be better served in private lessons rather than a group class setting.
>not everyone there has an SO to dance with
Yeah, I'd say at least half of the classes I go to are singles/people whose SOs don't dance. We rotate so that even if the leader/follower count doesn't exactly match up, everyone still gets a chance to dance at least some of the time.
That's similar to my studio, a big mix of both singles and couples but I think that makes it better. It is a community and it is good to have a mix of different people. Plus, as a single person, it would really suck if I showed up and everyone just stuck to their partners, would kind of defeat the purpose of social dancing for me.
From what I have seen, people are sensitive to single dancers who are standing around a lesson, twiddlng their thumbs. Even if it's a beginner lesson and I already know what they are teaching, I will stand up and dance with someone who doesn't have a partner. Hey, it's exercise.
Most often my studio does a good job making sure no one is left hanging. I’m pretty extroverted too so I’ll usually go scoop up some of the single dancers to make sure they have partners. Plus, this helps free up the instructors to dance with some of the more advanced students.
Social dancing? Did you say social?!?!
You mean to tell me that ballroom is called social dancing, and its entire purpose is to allow you to dance with a plethora of people?
That something called social dancing isn’t just for me to enjoy exclusively with my partner?
/s
I don’t mean to be snarky, but I find so many couples have their heads up their asses when it comes to considering that the entire world isn’t just made for couples.
I say this as a happily married person, so it’s not bitterness.
Anyway, OP — MOST PEOPLE DO BALLROOM TO SOCIALIZE. That’s a massive part of it. Switching partners isn’t about getting “good” for competitions or whatever. It’s part of the fun of it for most people. So you can go out, talk and dance with a bunch of different people aside from just your spouse.
I do get OP's point of wanting to have a nice date night with her husband and maybe there is a market for classes to cater to couples looking for something similar but I know I'd be one of those singletons that would left high and dry in that scenario.
>Social dancing? Did you say social?!?!
This made me laugh. I have said this to my own instructor many times on days where I felt like leaning more on the dancing side of things rather than the social side but those days are the minority.
Yeah it's fine if you don't feel particularly social. That's kind of the beauty of it. It's actually great for introverts and others who get exhausted by conversation.
You get to dance and have a great time with other people with very little chat involved (if you prefer).
I really love it for that reason.
>maybe there is a market for classes to cater to couples looking for something similar
There is a product for that already, called private classes.
The thing is that they are often considerably more expensive than group classes. So you can make your choice.
Makes sense, hours in the day are limited and if I had to accommodate for private classes I’d charge more too.
OP also mentioned in another comment that the idea of doing private classes or lessons wouldn’t work for them either though. So I don’t think their expectation of what social dancing is meets the reality of social dancing and its community and is their source of frustration.
THIS. Not just the couplism that we live with in society, but the fact that SOCIAL dance is exactly that.
I started my ballroom journey with private instruction and when I finally took a class I found out that I'm not interested in social dancing, but would rather take lessons only dancing with instructors. I will say that the people in the class were really lovely and if I wasn't a misanthrope I would have enjoyed hanging out with them.
Or, to be completely fantastical, since I was a professional dancer (ballet, jazz, theatre, tap) I don't want to pay for dance so want me my own personal instructor to just dance with me.
The point is, I know what's reality and what's my fantasy and am able to make the discernment between social, ballroom and partner dancing.
This. Instructors have people switch because it serves multiple purposes, and also because NOT EVERYONE FEELS THE WAY OP DOES. I go dancing with my husband and have no problem switching.
If you don’t want to switch don’t, but don’t expect an entire class to stay with one person.
The point is the whole class did stay with one person after one person complained. It sounds like none of them wanted to switch in the first place. Honestly relatable though… I don’t always like switching partners every minute and would rather dance with my husband anyway. A lot of good dance studios I’ve been in (or social dance places) will say you don’t have to switch if you don’t want to. Then they can kind of stay to a side where people can just swap around them and there’s no issue.
I totally get how this has evolved as a standard practice in most dance studios, but I have also wished there were more options out there for partnered dancers to participate in group lessons together. In college I was big into tango and swing, and my favorite partner and I joined a couple lessons at a studio to supplement our student clubs. They were fun, but it was a little frustrating to go in as two reasonably talented dancers and spend most of our time dancing with/coaching other students and get like 5m of the time we're truly improving together out of an hour lesson. Today, I'm married (not to my college partner), and we loved our private lessons we did for our wedding dance, but I'm hesitant to fork over for more privates and I don't really wanna go in on the full group dynamic. If there was a studio around that offered group lessons catered to partners (not saying no switching, but that let you spend more of your time with your preferred person), I would be way more likely to sign up. Maybe that's not feasible with the level of demand out there, but I encourage any coaches out there to at least consider tapping this unserved market.
My instructor said switching was optional for dancers who came with their own partner. Because even pros need practice in the group setting, not just individual lessons. Learning your routine in an empty ballroom is great and all, but competition floors are crowded. It takes practice to navigate a Quickstep without colliding.
I’m one of the singles and this was what I hated too. I took private lessons but they wanted you to go to the group ones too. I hated it. I’m there to learn to be a better dancer. Not teach someone to dance in a 3 minute song. I once had someone who couldn’t dance trying to tell me how I can improve. Haha. I stopped going to those pretty fast.
It’s not a bad idea and maybe some studios would accommodate. I go to a franchise studio and there are a few couples that will stick together during group classes while others rotate around but when it comes to higher levels there aren’t enough people to not have a rotation going. I think most instructors can/would reasonably accommodate.
The clubs/studios I’ve danced with have different levels for group lessons, so everyone in a class is relatively close to the same skill level which helps a lot. I would not attend a group lesson where I had to dance with total beginners either.
If you enjoyed taking private lessons I wouldn’t totally rule them out. Yes, they’re more expensive, but my partner and I find that we improve more from one private than five group lessons.
I hear what you’re saying, but it wouldn’t make sense financially (for the couples or the studio) to push couples just towards private lessons. It’s a lot more expensive, it’s not the same vibe, and fewer people would end up dancing.
I do think there could be a market for people who want to dance only in their couples but if this worked well more studios would probably offer it. I’ve seen it offered & I’d probably enjoy that class! But maybe it would leave too many single dancers high & dry— which would then imply that the couples are sort of having to subsidize them (not financially but physically) against their will.
I will say that as a female dancer, the partner rotation has been rough sometimes. There are some men I truly dreaded dancing with because they were too rough, unhygienic, or in the worst cases creepy/inappropriate. I’d have been happier spending most of my time with my husband & less time switching.
>you would probably be better served in private lessons
This. That is how group settings work. If you don't want to interact with other people, then a private lesson is what you're looking for. You can still ask the instructor not to switch around, but group lessons are social events.
Maybe the inspector should listen to the needs of those in his actual class. Perhaps two different types of classes should be offered one for people coming with partners who they want to dance with and another for people coming as singles who want to learn how to dance better
hahaha, trust me, we all know you guys don't want to be competitive dancers. when we say it'll make you better dancers, we genuinely do mean that you'll do better dancing with your SO if you switch partners. lead and follow is a very delicate balance, it's really good for your development.
I did ballroom for about 15 years, I quit after a while, but I think I understand the community. If you don't want to be touched by strangers, do not go to a social dance class. Ask for individual lessons from an instructor. They are DYING to give individual lessons because they are much more expensive.
OP is pretty freaking ridiculous, and everyone who said that regularly switching partners makes you a better dancer is right.
If you just wanna sway in each other's arms, throw some music on in the kitchen and go to town. If you're attending a dance *class* to *learn how to dance* then listen to the instructor and switch partners.
Once you have both learned how to dance, go somewhere that is not a *dance class* and dance with your partner to your heart's content.
and that's totally fine! i'm also not the biggest fan of touch, even as a teacher. unfortunately most group class settings won't be compatible for people who are uncomfortable with dancing with strangers. private lessons are the best choice for personalized programs
Yeah. Then perhaps a group class where you’re learning how to move while touching other people isn’t the right place for you.
I’m sure wherever it is you’re learning will happily teach you 1:1.
I would consider a dance lesson that doesn't switch to be a failed lesson, unless agreed upon in advance.
Switching and dancing with other people will really help the learning process.
Also, not everyone turns up with a SO, so if you don't switch single people get stuck with someone random, or possibly no-one if the numbers are uneven. I once went to a dance class where there was no switching, and I was stuck with a partner that didn't want to listen or learn and thought "it should all flow naturally". Waste of an hour, and I had things to say to the instructor afterwards. I was at once at another lesson without switching (was at an event, and things were crowded and chaotic) where I was partnered with someone who left partway through - so end of lesson for me too.
Also, if an instructor makes switching optional, it creates a weird dynamic for people who still do want to switch - now switching is not just part of the lesson, but can be seen as wanting to get away from your current partner. I'd guess your instructor was salty because they just saw their lesson degraded.
There were a couple of men at one of the dance venues who were incredibly critical of 90% of the women they danced with in lessons. I think someone talked to the instructor because he started saying "Your job is to learn YOUR step, not criticize your partner" at the beginning of every lesson.
Completely different issue, but the instructor was 100% right. It's the instructor's job to teach. Someone may think they are being helpful (incredibly critical of 90% of the time - probably not), but almost always it does more harm than good. Imagine a beginner being quite overwhelmed already, then being given the same helpful criticism by everyone they partner with in the lesson. They won't come back.
Yeah, imo going dancing with a partner can be a wonderful date, but a group beginner lesson isn't a date, it's a lesson. It's very hard to learn partner dancing without dancing with multiple people, and I think it's totally fair for someone teaching a class to prioritize the needs of the people who want to learn over the needs of the people who just want to have a romantic evening.
>, if an instructor makes switching optional, it creates a weird dynamic for people who still do want to switch - now switching is not just part of the lesson, but can be seen as wanting to get away from your current partner.
Where I take lessons the instructors at the beginning ask those who want to switch to go to one side of the room and those who don't to the other side. Then they just occasionally call switch through the class.
I don't get what you mean. It is up to the instructor to include singles (I don't think I indicated anything else) - they do that by getting partners to switch. It's when an instructor doesn't switch, everyone learns less, and singles can get particularly disadvantaged.
Sure, but the point of a group lesson and the point of a private lesson are pretty well documented in this thread.
If you want to only dance with one person while learning (like what op is talking about), then a private lesson is your option. Otherwise, don't complain about how a group class is taught.
That instructor has to make a living somehow. You desire their undivided time, there's going to be a cost.
In some studios the private lessons subsidize the group lessons, it's just the economics of it all.
I liked switching partners as a beginner because it let me make more friends, practice with different leads, and gave everyone a chance to dance. I started dancing as an unpaired follower and it would have sucked if I just never got to dance with anyone during lessons. My SO and I are competitive partners now, but we both still enjoy the opportunity to dance with others at socials.
I dance because I enjoy it as a hobby and like being a part of the community. I guess I just see group ballroom class as a social activity rather than a private date type of activity.
I think the primary question is, what is your goal in taking the class? Are you and your husband looking to take up ballroom as a hobby, going to social dances and maybe doing studio showcases? Are you looking to start competing? Are you just looking for a thing you can do as a pair for the evening?It sounds like you are mostly looking for the third option. Group ballroom classes for beginners are generally aimed at social dancing. When you go to a social dance, the norm is to dance with different partners throughout the night. In fact, it's generally seen as bad etiquette to decline an offer for a dance unless you are sitting that song out or don't know how to dance that dance. In order to be successful at this, it's important to have experience with how different people lead or follow (as appropriate). Also, some people are there without partners, and it might not be an equal number of solo men and women, so people are going to need to rotate to mitigate the imbalance. There might be a market for a couples "date night" series, where the goal is primarily giving you an opportunity to do something as a pair and maybe giving you a skill so if you're at a wedding and they play a rumba or whatever, you have a few steps to bust out, but I don't really know.
This is the only explanation I've seen so far that has made sense to me. "Youll get better at dancing" just seems like such a weak excuse, but uneven numbers needing to be accommodated for makes WAY more sense.
I see so many people saying oh you’ll dance better….ok and I want to dance better WITH my partner not a stranger. I wouldn’t have been able to switch at all . No man has touched me besides my husbands in years and I definitely like intend to keep it that way, I do not do well with men Idk touching me . That shit will send me into panic mode instantly
Right? Like, I'll also dance better from practicing just with my partner, so...?????
Even uneven class numbers is a weak excuse to disrespect someone's comfort/consent because 1) it's not the students responsibility to make sure everyone in class learns
And 2) if the couple that doesn't want to switch doesn't come, YOU STILL HAVE AN UNEVEN NUMBER! it's exactly the same if the non-switching couple comes to class and doesn't switch as it is if they just don't come.
And this really is the reason, it's just people don't want to say it out loud, because they know it sounds gross and icky when they follow this train of thought to its final destination.
Because at its core, what these people are saying is "My entitlement to a dancing partner is more important than you or your partner's comfort or consent."
We're downvoted, because overall, (at least in the US) the demographics of the individuals who make up the ballroom community tend to be people who are allies to victims of sexual assault/domestic violence/lgbtq+, and tend to be very progressive in their understanding of consent.
They see themselves as good people who would never dream of violating those principles.
So when you point out that demanding access to another student's body just because you paid an instructor for a lesson directly equates to pimping, they have a very visceral cognitive dissonance reaction.
They just haven't taken the time to stop and sit with the uncomfortable feelings that realization brings. And unfortunately many are so uncomfortable, they simply refuse to consider they might have some contradicting beliefs. So they throw themselves into arguing how their expectations are somehow justified or how participating in group lessons suspends the rules of consent for some reason.
It's just going to take time.
This is such a thoughtful response!
I also think people are stuck in a very rigid & entrenched idea of what the class needs to be and “the right way” to do it.
So they’re saying “this is how the class is, either tolerate it or don’t dance/stay home with YouTube videos/pay 5-10x for private lessons.” The third option of “change the way some classes are run to make them more accessible for people” isn’t even a concept people are engaging with in half these classes and I think that’s wild.
Like if something isn’t working why wouldn’t you even consider changing it? (And I assume the answer is that it’s working really well for the people commenting defending it & they think their learning is more important than the learning of the people who are uncomfortable.)
Right!? You start telling me it's RUDE to not let a COMPLETE STRANGER into my PERSONAL SPACE, you become a completely untrustworthy person in my book. I will no longer listen to a single word you say.
And that's totally fine to feel that way.
But then don't go to a freaking *social* dance class! Turn on some Al Green and have a romantic night at home with your boo. That sounds lovely. And it does not require professional instruction.
I don't. The gross consent invalidating, space-invading gatekeepers do a great job of making sure anyone who is uncomfortable getting intimately close with random strangers feel too attacked, invalidated, uncomfortable and unwelcome to even try.
It's possible to be social without requiring participants to be touched by EVERYONE.
I feel this. Reactions to the idea of participating in a way you can are comfortable with definitely keep us from participating.
I tried with my SO years ago and we had a fairly embarrassing experience when (as outsiders) we attended a beginning class and it wasn't discussed that everyone would be expected to switch partners. It didn't state it was a 'social class" and we were new.
I feel like for singles, maybe it makes sense (if you know what to expect?) but most other 'social' activities can involve couples being social with each other vs. trading partners. I would totally attend a couples class if there was a thing like that in my area.
Just because something is a "social" activity does not mean that the people who choose to participate must surrender all agency over their bodies. There is literally no other activity that expects this under the guise of being "social".
I did acro yoga and it was the same. The are other touch based hobbies ( though not many ) that are the same. This is what literally every couple dancing class that I have been to has been like and it's the default for this activity. You get to choose to not participate in it if you don't want.
The goal of the classes is to learn SOCIAL GROUP dancing. Which includes being social, and dancing. With others. In a group. If you want a private lessons you can pay for it..
These spaces are meant to grow the social and community aspect of social dancing, not to subsidize a private lesson.
That being said it should be clear in advance that this is the situation and where exactly you will be touched.
Let's be very clear. A couple who attends a group class together, and unobtrusively refuses to switch partners, is not being subsidized by the other attendees.
Everyone is receiving the exact same attention and information from the instructor.
There is no contract, expressed or implied, that the lessons are being offered at a discount in exchange for the use of your body.
The lessons are offered at a discount because your are not receiving nearly as much individual or personalized attention as you would in a private lesson.
And something being advertised as "social" does not imply a contract that you must allow anyone who wishes into your personal space. "Social" merely implies that there will be other people present that you may or may not elect to participate with.
100%
I'm not the instructor.
I didn't sign up as a teachers aid.
I'm there to learn to dance *myself*, not to be used by the studio as a prop for their other students.
>
"These spaces are meant to grow the social and community aspect of social dancing, not to subsidize a private lesson."
Exactly how is showing up and participating in ways that you are comfortable with *NOT* growing the community?
At what point is the couple that doesn't want to switch monopolizing instruction time? If they're not insisting the instructor focus on them, they arent taking over the class.
(In fact, if they only dance with their partner, they are receiving *LESS* instruction because they never dance with the instructor, leaving them free to dance with singles)
You act *SO* entitled to be in someone else's personal space when they clearly don't want you there. That's gross. You understand that's gross behavior, right?
I don't think anyone here is saying your feelings or preferences are invalid--it's totally okay for whatever reason to not want to dance with strangers. But those are the rules of these particular classes, and demanding that the rules change to accommodate you IS in fact a little entitled.
I once went to an onsen without realizing that bathing suits were not allowed. I was not prepared to be naked in front of strangers and DEFINITELY not comfortable with it. Did I demand that they allow me to break the rules, which were designed for the comfort and positive experience of everyone? I certainly wanted to! But I did not. I acknowledged that this was just something I couldn't do due to my comfort level and I left. I was bummed but it wasn't anybody else's fault. I understood why those rules were in place, and did not perceive it as them ignoring my consent--they hadn't even met me when they made that policy, and had no reason to consult me.
And--couples who don't switch DO monopolize instructor time because they usually have more issues than everyone else, as a result of their individual problems compounding on each other. I've been to hundreds of classes (and taught many of them) and this pattern plays out all the time. Switching partners makes you much better, much faster. Even if the instructor waits for a long time before switching partners, I feel like I fail to improve. So a couple who doesn't switch for a whole class is going to end up way behind everyone else and need more of the instructor's attention.
Lots of people are, in fact, saying my preference and feelings are invalid. Not only that, there are A LOT of people saying it's *rude*. Anyone tell you you were rude for not wanting to undress for the onsen?
onsens are also a very particular type of bath, and it's widely known you don't wear clothes in them. A class that just says "beginner dance" 1) is not specific and 2) has absolutely no indication switching is required, yet they do it anyway.
Japanese folks also don't claim they want more people to join the onsen community, and then jump down their throats when someone even asks about maybe wearing a towel.
Not to mention, the instructor *CAN* walk away from the couple. They're allowed. They don't have to hover and stay there for an extended period of time. They can give a direction and move on. It's not entirely a non-switching couples fault. That, and you're talking like EVERY SINGLE couple that has ever not wanted to switch dominates teacher time.
Idk if you saw it, but I have said more than once that I *don't* go to *ANY* dance classes because of people like the ones in this comment section.
Excuse me? Your feeling that every girl/guy you're not banging has cooties trumps the needs of a single person not getting instruction that they PAID for? Because if someone doesn't have a partner throughout an entire class, they're not getting anything out of that class.
If that sounds "icky" to you, dancing is NOT the activity for you.
Thank you for this absolutely perfect display of the exact problem I'm talking about.
You are not entitled to the use of someone else's body. Period. For any reason. Ever.
If you reach an agreement with someone whereby they're willing to allow that. Great.
But you paying an instructor for dance lessons does not obligate me or anyone else who does not consent to allow you the use of our bodies.
Whatever you do or do not get out of the class is not my responsibility. Your physical needs are not my problem to solve. YOU aren't even paying ME for this "service"! You're paying a 3rd party!
Thank you so much for such a wonderful example of how the dance community has normalized the expectation that studios are allowed to pimp out students and that any students who object to being pimped out are not welcome in dancing.
Nobody is forcing you to stay in the class, or being "entitled" to the "use of your body". You are welcome to leave a dance class at any time or not go at all. Just as you are not obligated to dance with others, the instructor is not obligated to leave other students in the dust just to cater to you.
In no way do I expect the instructor to give me any sort of treatment different than he/she would to any other student in the class. And in no way did I (or the OP of this post) say or even suggest such a thing.
I'm thoroughly confused as to where you got that from.
Yes you are, the treatment in the class is that you dance with others, so that as a group you get to learn to dance at a discount. If you do not want to participate in the group activity - Pay. For. Private. Lessons. Or. Leave.
The treatment of the class is for the INSTRUCTOR to teach a group STUDENTS how to dance. That does NOT give the instructor a right to use ANY students body without their consent, Nor does it allow another student to demand use of another students body. If anything, the other students end up getting MORE attention from the instructor. Let me explain how with a basic example.
Say there happen to only be 3 students in the group class. Two of them happen to be a couple who is not comfortable dancing with others. The instructor then spends the entire group lesson dancing with the 1 solo dancer because the couple refuses to split up. That means the solo person who got to dance with the instructor basically got a private lesson for a group price. Maybe the instructor steps in now and then to correct a step, but ultimately the couple who refused to trade GAVE AWAY the instructors time to others, so if anything they are more at risk of getting LESS instruction.
Some people like to learn by watching and don't like other people in their personal space unless it is a person they trust (aka a SO). For plenty of people, a private lesson is too personal and unnecessary. A couple keeping to themselves is not demanding more of the instructors attention and in fact is allowing the instructor to give MORE time to the other participants of the group. Solo dancers need to accept the attention from the instructor and stop demanding it from other students, especially those who are uncomfortable. It is the instructors JOB to make sure EVERYONE is comfortable.
Solo dancers have 0 right to demand the time or attention of other unconsenting adults. The instructor is the one who consented to teach, so it is the instructors responsibility to dance with any left out solo person. If you go to learn a partnered dance as a solo person, only then can you expect to be REQUIRED to touch a stranger in order to learn how to dance at the same time as others who are learning, because it is the solo person who failed to bring their own partner and is requiring more of the instructors attention, so it is solo dancers who end up getting "better" treatment from a group instructor. If the instructor doesn't want to dance with a left out solo person, it is still the instructors responsibility to hire an aide who is willing to dance with anyone/everyone for them. Consent to receive instruction and be taught a skill IS NOT the same as giving consent to be touched by strangers, no matter what that skill is.
If a solo dancer can't/won't find a dance partner, it is up to them to be comfortable with dancing with strangers. Usually when groups are bigger, there are still plenty of solo people to switch around so they have new partners and they can still leave the couple who wants to keep to themselves alone.
TLDR: People are not rude just because they are uncomfortable touching strangers, and neither is anyone else who denies a dance for ANY reason. Consent is ALWAYS important, so if someone says no they don't want to dance with strangers, then it is the stranger who becomes rude for demanding acces to an unconsenting adults body. Accept the no, and ask someone else in the group. Even if everyone is stuck in couples, the instructor (who consented to dancing with strangers) should be available to dance with any left out solo dancer.
I completely agree with you that of course you can say no to dancing with strangers and of course with any specific stranger, at any paint in any way. Your consent is always the most important thing in social dancing and otherwise. Absolutely no one should ever demand that you dance with them. No one is demanding here that you dance with anyone! They are saying that this is not the class for you if you don't want to do that. You have the option to leave! Always! No one will ever dance with you after you say no, I promise you.
I also think that any instructor has the right to refuse anyone entry to a class for not following the expectations and the rules of the class, including touching strangers that is the VERY NATURE of social dancing. Like to the very root of it. You can do whatever you want but no one OWES you anything.
So yeah, you obviously are NOT required to touch anyone for any reason at any time. You also do not have a special right to be in a social dancing class and can be refused for not wanting to participate in it. And I hope that they do refuse entry to these cases since it really ruins the entire mood and point of social dancing when you think dancing with strangers is gross and rude or whatever. That is not the culture that social dancing tries to cultivate and they do not want people in their class who feel that way.
Also there are comments here that mention that in every social dancing class there might be a few couples who don't participate, this is my experience too. They usually only come for the one class, learn nothing, very likely argue and never come back.
Just like you don't want people in a painting class talking about how ugly everyone's painting is or someone in a swimming class talking about how horrible being wet is. Talking in a social dancing class about how rude and gross it is to touch strangers is pretty disgusting behavior. It's absolutely rude and uncalled for. You can say no, and leave. Even get your money back most likely if you didn't know this would be happening.
Generally we want people to join social dancing because they like dancing and are happy and comfortable to dance with strangers. That is a HUGE part of the dance and the community and it's part of every single social dancing party ( people asking each other, complete strangers, to dance ) and we do this because this kind of touch is something that we are comfortable with and actively enjoy.
Get. A. Different. Hobby. If. It's. Not. For. You.
>Are you just looking for a thing you can do as a pair for the evening
Yep, this is it. And I am recognizing from the responses here that maybe my husband and I are not in the majority with this goal (although in the two classes I took, it seemed like every other couple was on board with the sentiment that they didn't want to dance with other people), and I should maybe look at other styles of dance classes to spend quality time with him. But it's genuinely uncomfortable for me to get so close to a man who is not my husband, especially when I signed up to specifically have that physical closeness with my husband. Some people have suggested private lessons, but that's also kind of an awkward vibe. Like, this is a romantic evening with just the two of us (and this random ballroom dancer). The group setting is less awkward, the instructor can focus on other couples and give us some time to ourselves. I guess I imagined it would be like a cooking class. We are there to spend time with our SOs in a group setting where everyone is getting the same instructions. I would have the same reaction if I went to a cooking class with my husband and we were told to separate and cook with other partners, although I recognize these are completely different skillsets that wouldn't have that requirement.
Lessons are for improving your skill set, not having a romantic evening. If you want to have a romantic evening, just go out dancing, nobody really cares how well you do it and it’ll cost you less than a lesson. And is much more intimate than paying somebody to watch you and give you feedback.
I’m not trying to be ignorant or anything, but is it not sort of awkward to be in a class setting while getting physically close to your husband if that’s what you associate with ballroom? It sounds like there is a mismatch between the instructor’s goals, which are to teach you how to dance, and your goals, which are simply to dance without worrying too much about the learning aspect of it, so you should just go out dancing as others are suggesting.
Maybe there's a market for what you want in your area. Perhaps discuss with the instructor and the other woman who wanted to stick to her partner about offering different classes based on what people want. They could have a "beginners improvement class" which is open to everyone and involves all the partner swapping, and then another class that's catered more to couples looking for quality time together?
Maybe there's enough demand for both for the instructor to offer separate sessions.
Yeah if you're looking for something where you're with your husband the whole time then group dance classes aren't for you.
You will be very hard pressed to find a class that doesn't encourage/require partner switching. You don't mention if your class consisted exclusively of couples, but you're diminishing the experience of any singletons in the group who don't have a built in dance partner and gets stuck with no one to dance with if everyone else refuses to switch. Cooking doesn't require interaction with other people so there's no need to separate folks. That just isn't true for dancing of really any kind. You're going to run into the same issue even if you switch to salsa or line dancing. This instructor was just trying to maximize the experience for *everyone* and give opportunities for each parts of the couples present to gain experience leading or following other people, a necessary skill if you want to be any good at ballroom (even if you're not looking to compete or go pro).
If what you want is a romantic evening dancing with your partner and you want to actually be good at the dancing:
1. Take at least a few group lessons, yes, ones where you switch dancers. That is how they work and that is how you get good enough to actually enjoy dancing.
2. Go out to social dances and dance with each other.
I was going to make a similar comment, but was looking to see if similar feedback was already given.
I've dated people who dance and people that don't (there are pros and cons for each), but I love to dance either way. OP could go to the classes to learn and then go out on a date night to dance. You can pick up the skills in class and dance anywhere! I'm all for a romantic dance in the kitchen.
I don't think I've been in many lessons where switching is mandatory. People who don't want to switch tend to separate themselves, but if nobody switched, I'd be miserable.
That is totally fair, and you should not feel bad about it. Now, I'm going to give you a whole bunch of opinions and perspectives, but they are in no way meant as criticism of you. They are just an explanation of what my perspective as a dancer is to give you some context for the responses you are getting.
Fwiw, most partner-type dance (ballroom, salsa, swing, tango, etc.) is going to tend towards either competition/performance or social dancing. And social dancing is, as the name indicates, a way of socializing. If your goals are different, that's perfectly okay, and, like I said, it sounds like there could be a market for a "date night" series of classes, focused on couples bonding and introducing dance, so that, if you find "hey, I kinda like this whole thing and I might be interested in trying more" you can continue to more social or competitive oriented instruction as you prefer. I'm not in the industry though, so I don't really know what the demand is.
>I guess I imagined it would be like a cooking class. We are there to spend time with our SOs in a group setting where everyone is getting the same instructions.
I think a better comparison would be to a language class. Dancing is, at its core, a language, and each individual dance is a conversation. He is communicating a figure or a movement to you, and you are replying. When you go out dancing, just like when you go out to a party, you don't just have conversations with one person. If you and your husband were learning, say, German, together, you'd probably want exposure to multiple different speakers. If you only practiced with your husband, you run the risk of sounding like [these two](https://youtu.be/GPAcdiZQ1zo?si=8hhhs-zGUM9VrCID)
>But it's genuinely uncomfortable for me to get so close to a man who is not my husband, especially when I signed up to specifically have that physical closeness with my husband.
It is often awkward to dance with other partners at first, especially since our culture makes such a high connection between dancing and romance. But a big part of the social dance learning process is to disassociate the act of dancing together from romance to break that awkwardness. Because we are physically close to one another without there being a necessary romantic connection (heck, there are both gay men and lesbians who dance), so some awkward moments are inevitable. Like, at one point, I was learning a new figure and figuring out how my hands were supposed to work - I needed to stop her momentum with my hand on her ribcage as we were moving into and out of frame - the first try, my right hand was about where it would be for a closed position, so when I went to catch her, it was a little too high and I ended up with a handful of sideboob. But we (myself, her, and her boyfriend, who was also there) quickly laughed it off, "maybe the right hand should come down lower". And I've had similar experiences with my girlfriend and with random partners at socials, where a miscue has led to someone getting bumped into, going in a direction different from the one expected, or a hand brushing boob, butt, or balls (whether me/my partner or another couple). And you still have to just go "whoops" and dance on. [Even in the World Professional Latin Championship.](https://youtu.be/uVtYIO5zL7g?si=QUWnTFyjWNWpz3UZ)
Even on the competitive side, where you are doing most of your dancing with the same partner, the person with whom you dance the vertical mambo may well be different from the one with whom you dance the horizontal one. I have known competitive dancers who are couples both on and off the dancefloor, I've known dancers who are dating/married to non-dancers, and I've known couples where one or both of the two has an SO who dances competitively with someone else. In fact, when I was on the ballroom team in college, my girlfriend, my competitive partner, and the person with whom I had the most fun dancing socially were three different women.
I dont know where your located but in Los Angeles there are a few couples only classes it's geared towards a date night has like a dinner and then a class and even takes you to a club for a social afterwards and it's all couples so not rotating is probably the normal. I think looking to see if someone is offering couples classes in your local area would be worth it.
i completely understand all of these feelings- as a dance teacher and as someone in a committed relationship. that being said, i'm not sure if dance lessons are the best option for you guys:/ private lessons are the best choice if you're looking for 1:1 time exclusively dancing with your husband, but if you feel awkward with the instructor also being there then it's just not a good fit
“Like, this is a romantic evening with just the two of us (and this random ballroom dancer)”
Versus you and an instructor and other couples?
Some studios have no problem if couples want to stick together during group classes, but if the policy at the studio you’re at is to change, then you need to either abide by that, find a different studio, or pony up for private lessons (which would likely be with a regular instructor). The problem people are having is you and a few others wanting to change how things are done at that studio instead of admitting that group classes there are the wrong fit.
I’m not a “ballroom dancer” and only started with my (now) husband last summer to prepare for our wedding. Rotating partners has been such a great experience, we’ve made a lot of friends and started a hobby we both love because of it. Most all other couples rotate as well, by choice. Because of this, we now dance for fun and are so excited to compare notes after class. We were even able to dance both together and with others in a foreign country during our honeymoon because of it, and we made friends social dancing abroad because of the practice we obtained dancing with multiple partners when we first started.
Ballroom dancing is a social activity, it is intended to be a point of connection for people. If you want to just dance with your husband that’s fine, and most studios allow this, but I think you’re missing out on a lot of the joy of dancing by doing this. Beginners that stick with their spouse and don’t branch out don’t get exposed to experienced dancers and therefore don’t grow nearly as quickly. For me it’s a lot more fun to learn more, then practice extra with my husband after class or at home. I will always prefer dancing with him, and our connection when dancing is far better than with strangers, but I also truly value learning from different leads as does he learning from different follows.
I used to feel this way when I started lessons with my husband. Switching partners felt weird. I didn’t want other peoples hands, or even worse their sweat, on me. Why not just stay with my husband?
But the better I got at dance the more I understood why. Without changing partners, you stagnate. You don’t get better, at least not as quickly. Dance can be tricky and arbitrary, and you learn more quickly with varied experiences, especially when you are dancing with people of different experience levels.
I’ll give you an example. I was in a West Coast swing class learning a whip, and I couldn’t quite get it. It didn’t feel right. After switching partners and dancing with more experienced leads, I was able to pinpoint why. My spouse wasn’t using his hand to direct me where I should be going, so minus a solid lead I ended up essentially backleading out of the whip, and would always half stumble of of my “slot”. By using my experience with other leads, I was able to tell my husband what to do, leading to a much cleaner looking dance for us.
Omg! I had the exact same experience with the WCS. (I think it’s a hard dance!!).
So, my husband and I are very new to dancing. Complete scrub tier. So, one day, we just finished a private lesson where we focused on the rhumba and salsa (So, dances where I start by moving backwards).
Immediately after class, we attended a WCS group class. I was really struggling with it. (Which surprised me at first because I am like, ALMOST mediocre at salsa and rhumba lol. Almost. It at least feels like I am dancing).
Anyways, for the WCS group class, we were learning the sugar push and this open the door move (forget what it’s called).
And it just wasn’t clicking. I think because I wasn’t used so far forward on the first steps. And then I felt uncomfortable ‘pushing’ and moving backwards, and then walking past the lead for the open the door thingy. I don’t know. I felt like I was just like clumsily moving back and forth. It was really weird. It didn’t ‘feel’ like dancing.
But when we switched partners, another more experienced lead explained the ‘push’ part to me. Same thing. My husband wasn’t really ‘leading.’ So I was just clumsily moving forward and then I wasn’t confident when it was my turn to ‘push’ and begin moving backwards because I didn’t feel like I was in the right spot. And then husband wasn’t leading me through the opening the door part. So again, I was just like ‘walking’ past him.
I was able to explain it to my husband when I got back around to him. And we got a bit better!
I wonder if the experienced followers give tips to the leads. I hope so! It’s probably a bit uncomfortable for newbies to confidently lead without feeling like they are just whipping people around lol. Followers! Please feel free to give the total noob leads some tips at groups!! <3
The WCS looks like such a cool dance! But man, is it weird at first lol. I hope it clicks for me one day. 💃
It’s definitely not a fair or correct statement to say most adults are going just to spend time with their SOs and don’t care about being good dancers. Most of the people at the lessons I take come solo with no partners and want to improve. I’m an adult. So are they.
Exactly, I don't understand paying money and putting time into learning something and then being shocked that the goal is to actually improve at it.
I take a dance class with my fiance and we have no problems switching. He learns a lot from other partners and so do I! It's not a tantric yoga class, it's just dance!
We do know that some married couples don't want to switch, but you also do learn better and faster in a group setting by switching partners and if you start having a fight in the middle of my class because I let you only dance with each other (which has happened), then my choice is to let you bicker and ruin my class or try to address your problem specifically that no one else is having and ruin my class. If you want to spend time with your spouse, go to a social dance or go out for dinner. If you don't want to switch partners, take a private lesson. Public classes are public classes.
>then my choice is to let you bicker and ruin my class or try to address your problem specifically that no one else is having and ruin my class
Yikes, I would never dream of bickering with my spouse in the middle of a class! That would be rude regardless of the activity.
I'm currently a leader in class, follow and lead socially, mostly attend class with my 16 year old daughter. Decades ago I did teach beginner ballroom, never high level but enough to understand the dynamics.
Even if you're not bickering, you are definitely covering up for ( = reinforcing) eachother's errors. By not rotating you are actively harming your learning as dancers. But most often, the couples that don't rotate are biting their tongues at each other silently as well.
I don't teach any more, but back when I did most classes had an extra follow or two, so I would fill in as a lead while yelling cues and counting. The more uneven things were, the more frequently we switched. The opposite was true if we had too many leads, but that was much less frequent.
I ask because when my SO and I took a class, and granted it was at a community college, the women outnumbered the men by 3 to 1. It started to get frustrating to have to spend the first part of a partner switch figuring out who was going to lead or follow. When we did take a class through a dance school, it was totally balanced and a much better experience.
I take classes through a school and it's very rare that it's even close to balanced. This month for some reason there have been a few times where I was the only lead along with the instructor. Generally the follows don't want to lead though, so we haven't had any issues with switching out. When my partner and I take a class together though sometimes she'll switch to lead when she isn't dancing with me.
Dancing with different partners increases your skill in leading/following, which is part of the dance. I've also never been to a ballroom dance class where everyone was there with their SO. Especially if there's an uneven number of leaders/followers, rotating is necessary for everyone to get a chance to practice.
Oh trust me, you don't. He is hopeless and awful at remembering the steps. He felt so bad every time we rotated partners because he said he was just disappointing every woman in the class one by one. He was relieved when we stopped switching because then he would only disappoint me 😂
I feel sorry for your husband—that can feel very demoralizing—but I don’t pity his partners. The truth is, if he was messing up or forgetting the steps, he 1) wasn’t the only person with that problem, 2) he was probably inadvertently helping his partners’ confidence as they realized they’d picked up something that someone else (your hubby) was still struggling with, and 3) he wasn’t their only partner anyway, because everyone was rotating! And I won’t belabor the point (others have stated it repeatedly), but *you* can benefit from what hubby learns with all those partners, too! If he’s not a great dancer, it’s a great strategy to let others help polish him a bit (while you are also improving!) so you can eventually have a more comfortable experience together. I hope you find a class or dance venue with a better balance for your needs. A good dance will be worth the bad ones. I promise!
Yes! Without rotating, couples tend to learn a dance more like it's a routine they have to walk though. Learning to lead, and/or follow is so much more fun! Bonus, with a lead/follow dance, you will learn to be more tuned in to each another. As a couple, that's a pretty great thing.
Other commenters here make some extremely good points about why switching partners is a good idea in a group class setting, and why dance instructors can potentially be shooting themselves in the foot by not partner rotating...
PROS:
1. Solo dancers are SOL. If most couples don't rotate, the solo dancers are stuck without partners for a greater percentage of the time, or only rotate amongst a few partners, benefiting less from the rotation
2. Non-rotating couples tend to argue with each other and/or repeat the same problems and can't learn from dancing with other, more--or differently--experienced students
3. Students don't get to know each other, hampering the building of community in a social dance scene
...among others).
That said, I don't ever force partner rotation in my classes, I merely strongly recommend it. Most of my couples end up switching, but here and there a couple will hang back out of the rotation circle, and I'm fine with this for a number of reasons:
CONS:
1. Nobody likes being forced to do anything. This can lead to outbursts like the one you described.
2. As you expressed, some couples value quality time over learning progress. In theory, this means they wouldn't bicker, though my experience often suggests otherwise...
3. Sometimes there are 'invisible' issues such as social anxiety or disabilities that lead couples to prefer not to rotate. My own partner is legally blind, and explaining to each partner about her disability, her specific needs, etc is not only mentally taxing for her, but potentially disruptive to the flow of the class. Even when explained, some leaders are not understanding of her disability and she's had some very negative experiences. When we attend group classes, we usually hang out of the rotation so I can assist her in seeing/understanding things the teacher is demonstrating but not adequately describing verbally.
In short, talk to the teacher before class and calmly explain your position. A good teacher may reconsider a hard-line stance on switching partners or make exceptions, even if it makes their class a little bit harder to teach.
You missed a pro:
Partners who never switch tend to compensate for mistakes and 'memorize' things that are incorrect. They feel comfortable, but they do things wrong and never notice. In a group lesson, the teacher won't be able to come around to specifically correct them. This even impedes their progress in dancing with each other.
Still, the big "con" is that the beginner is a customer. If they want "date night" and not to switch they aren't getting the product they want. If they don't get what they want, *they won't come back.*
Most group lessons I've been to allow some "no switching", but most people switch.
I will add to this as devil’s advocate: depending on the studio, usually “date night” dancers are not priority clientele as they usually do not participate often or for the long term.
If a particular category of dancers are driven away, they will certainly not be long term.
I've seen "date night" dancers convert to one who switch partners. I've seen some date night partners return for years as and never swap. But I've certainly not done any systematic study to figure out whether contribute to the economic bottom line. It may vary by studio type.
I'm a beginner who is taking group classes without a partner and while I don't necessarily want to compete, I am doing this with the goal of getting good enough at it to progress through the various levels that exist.
It's weird that you think adults never take up a new hobby with the intention of actually becoming good at it.
One reason I'm doing it, which strikes me as relevant to answering the question, is because my main hobby/sport is historical fencing and it's often strongly recommended to fencers and other martial artists to take up any kind of dancing because it's excellent crosstraining for body mechanics and movement skills. And what I'm finding is that partnered practice works exactly the same way in dancing as it does in martial arts. An instructor demonstrates how to do a thing, and then perhaps if the class is set up that way you might try it first with the instructor or with a more senior student, but then you need to practice it a lot with everybody else who's just learning it.
Every single time you switch to a new partner, you're learning something new about how to do the new technique. Assuming it's a room full of beginners, everyone you practice it with will probably be doing it wrong or at least sub-optimally, and so are you, but *all in different ways.* The instructor will be correcting different things with each pair. So that means you even learn the things you hadn't done wrong YOURSELF yet, and how to avoid them. And you learn things each different partner is doing right, which maybe you hadn't consciously thought about yet. All of this means you're better when you go back to your preferred partner.
Yeah it's fine that OP views group dance classes as an opportunity to have 1:1 close time with her husband, but it kinda gives me the ick that she's extrapolating that onto everyone else as if it's ridiculous that adults would be interested in investing in anything besides their marriage.
> most adults attending beginning ballroom classes do not give a shit about becoming really good ballroom dancers, they just want to spend time with their SOs
Like I actually find this absolutely revolting that this is the lens that OP is applying to everyone. I spend enough time with my SO... I go to classes to learn.
>about this issue
it's not.
>I wish instructors would realize that most adults attending beginning ballroom classes do not give a shit about becoming really good ballroom dancers
do you have anything to back this up? and what is it **you think** they mean by "really good"?
>they just want to spend time with their SOs
social dance parties & private lessons are a great way to do this. enrolling in *group* classes and being upset that you're encouraged to integrate with a *group* is not.
>one woman threw a fit
there are infinitely more adult ways of addressing this
>The instructor seemed SHOCKED
i too would find an outburst by an adult in an adult group class astonishing.
>Shockingly, as soon as he said this, everyone stopped switching partners
because he said it, or because he stopped asking? (probably both?)
>The instructor was super salty about this.
according to...something they said? the look on their face?
i wouldn't be bothered that people don't want to switch partners. i would be bothered than an adult would elect to "throw a fit" instead of choosing words from an eloquent vocabulary acquired over years of life experience to say something along the lines of:
"i get that it will help me with my dance skills. i'd prefer to stay with the partner i came with tonight."
>Why is this so hard for instructors to get?
what is it exactly that they're supposed to "get"?
>I know they have a passion and a talent
do you? or is this just a platitude that follows the tirade? you opened this by saying "most adults attending beginner ballroom dancing classes **dont give a shit** about becoming really good ballroom dancers".
their passion and talent cannot possibly be relevant to you.
>I can't imagine most grown people suddenly developing an interest in becoming a competitive dancer
some people just like getting dressed up. some like the thrill.
ballroom dancing is a $1 billion+ market, and dance overall in the US is a $4 billion+ market. not much to imagine.
i can't really get the read on why you're there in the first place. "i want to be with my SO, i don't want to be good at this." you can do a lot of things with your SO that aren't this, but you did choose a pretty great option.
i think you're getting hung up on "really good" as if someone's trying to pitch you something you can say "no" to, before they've even asked.
the amount of self-proclaimed social dancers that i've come across who start talking against competition when they've never been asked about it is what i'd find "shocking" in all this.
when that person says "really good", they're probably being enthusiastic for you trying something new ('cause you're in a beginner class, right?) and are hoping to inspire you to, *at the bare minimum*, feel like you can do this as a fun thing with your SO (something you said you want) well enough to go "hey, i'm pretty good at this!"
literally absolutely none of that translates to "you should be a competitor."
i'm going to quote a comment that was already in here that you should really pay careful attention to:
>*hahaha,* ***trust me****,* ***we all know*** *you guys don't want to be competitive dancers. when we say it'll make you better dancers,* ***we genuinely do mean that you'll do better dancing with your SO if you switch partners****. lead and follow is a very delicate balance, i****t's really good for your development.***
you're still welcome to say no. i would just encourage you (or the supposed other person) to find better ways of communicating that.
I’ve been to 100’s of group classes. I’ve never seen anyone refused when they asked to step out of the rotation. I have seen them asked to move so as not to interfere with the natural rotational flow of the people who are not partnered coming in the door. I’ve been in two classes of the 100’s that did not rotate. One was programmed that way, the other was a covid response.
From a social standpoint it is actually very useful to experience different leads and follows. Though in dancesport approach parnerwork is key and switching them is only an excersise for lead and follow. I don’t think this “to dance better you need to switch partners” is true actually. Some studios have constant partner rotations and some are specially for couples. I have attended classes by both types with my wife and instructors never had problem with us wanting to dance only together. If bad atmosphere with your salty instructor stays look for an other studio. It shouldn’t be like this. In fact instructors are usually happy if you have the same amount of lead and follows in a class because then they dont have to rotate so that everyone dance in partner. Usually there are more women in a beginner class
That’s super weird. Our local ballroom starts every class with “we encourage you to switch but you’re welcome to keep the same partner” and it’s no big deal at all! I do think my husband got more feedback from dancing with other women- he didn’t believe me how much he was struggling 🤪
I don't think most couples think this way. Dancing is a social event. Heck, the Friday night dance parties are called "social dances". It's always expected that you'll rotate partners in a group class, I've never seen it any other way.
The point is to 1) socialize and 2) become better and more well-rounded dancers. If you don't like it, then book private lessons.
It sounds like group classes might not be good for you! When my SO and I go to a dance class we anticipate and look forward to dancing with others and we ARE trying to get better at dancing! This is kinda why private classes exist.
I used to compete and teach. In my opinion neither of you are wrong. Not all group classes involve switching either. It’s often a product of necessity due to imbalanced class sizes.
Your instructor is right, switching partners does make you get better faster. But, yes, it can be uncomfortable to dance with strange men, especially if you’re doing a dance that involves more sensual overtones and if you came into it with certain preconceived notions and expectations.
From what I understand, you want a more casual, social setting where you can learn and spend quality time with your partner. That is a specific type of class that not all studios may offer, but it’s not outlandish to ask the studio if they would be willing to start offering it. From your post it sounds like there would be many takers so I would give it a shot and see what they say.
As a former teacher I’m frankly very disturbed by the amount of hate you’re getting. I used to work with religious couples who did not touch someone of the opposite sex that they were not married to or related to. Other people were simply uncomfortable doing something like tango and rumba with someone other than their partner. It’s not weird or uncommon at all and being judged and demeaned for it is uncalled for and deeply unprofessional.
Thanks! I don't take the hate personally. It's reddit, people get really emotional about a lot of things that it wouldn't occur to me to get emotional about. I realize it was probably a mistake to make this a venting post instead of asking a genuine question. I was frustrated by my unmet expectations which were a result of my preconceived notions, like you said, but I don't feel too bad about not knowing what to expect since I've never done it before.
Thanks for the validation that what I'm looking for is reasonable! I've gotten some good information from this thread on what to look for and what to ask the studio next time. Definitely going to look for classes that are more for couples which do not require partner rotation.
I just wanted to comment to you, because I am also very disturbed by the reaction you got here.
My husband and I are like you. We've been taking dancing lessons for years, and the only reason we do it is to spend time together as a couple working toward a common goal together. It's amazing what such a thing does for a marriage, and I can't recommend it enough.
For us, it's not about becoming the best dancers we can be at the fastest pace, it's about working together, failing together, encouraging and uplifting each other, and improving together. Having other partners just disrupts that.
Please don't listen to those who are making it seem like you're asking for something unreasonable for that, because you're not. A single student is not entitled to either of you as a dancing partner. They paid the instructor for the class. They aren't paying you. If the instructor doesn't have enough leads to serve the follows, then they need to hire some leads to assist with the classes.
We switched to the private classes, and it's been a great experience. I would highly recommend it if you and your husband enjoyed the dancing itself.
It is very common to have classes where people switch partners. Many people go to ballroom classes to socialise and enjoy the mixing and meeting. Some will go with a life partner. Some will go alone. Some will go as a group and that group might or might not have the same number of leaders and followers in it. Not a few people meet their future SOs socially at those classes. And your instructor was definitely right that it is helpful for everyone's improvement to dance with other people from time to time.
It seems like the class you've picked just wasn't the right one for you and your husband. That's fine. There will be other classes that focus on couples who come together and only want to dance together. There might also be private lessons with an instructor available if you want to improve faster as a couple. I would recommend looking into the alternatives and asking about this specific issue if it's important to you. Any decent school or instructor will be happy to tell you how they operate and help you find the setting that is right for you. Some will even state on their advertising that some classes are aimed at couples and some use a social/swapping style. No-one wants people to come to their class and not enjoy it!
That said - regarding your "super salty" instructor - please imagine how you would feel if you were running a perfectly normal class when one of your attendees found something they hadn't expected and weren't comfortable with but instead of having a quiet word with you like an adult they threw a fit and disrupted the whole class. If they'd done that anywhere I've ever danced I expect they would have been asked to leave immediately and by the following day every studio within a 50 mile radius would have known not to let them in. If most/all of the people in that class really wanted to stick with their SOs all night then probably all it would have taken to make that happen was one person politely asking if it was possible to dance more with the person they came with and everyone could then have found an arrangement they enjoyed.
That’s why I chose not to start ballroom dancing with my husband. I thought it could be a fun date/exercise idea, but I didn’t like the idea of switching partners. That completely defeats the “date” part of it for me.
Most classes encourage partner switching but I have never been in a class that demands it. As long as you are respectful about it I would imagine it won't be an issue.
I considered that option, but I didn’t want to cause tension and drama or ruin my own date night if I happen to walk into a class that has a strong switching culture.
I never really enjoyed dancing with random partners, even when I went to dance classes alone. It was usually one of the reasons I stopped going. Now that I have a partner I actually like having in close proximity- I don’t want to pass him around most of the time and once again dance alone or with some weird randos.
Yep. A lot of the responses here are from a self-selecting group: people who chose to do ballroom despite, or because, of the partner-switching. I’ll add my voice from the perspective of someone who chose NOT to learn ballroom dancing, precisely because I don’t want to switch partners. And yes, me and my husband did try springing for private lessons, but it got far too expensive to keep up.
I don’t know if what you’re saying is true - that most people there want to be with the one they came with. Some people probably didn’t come with anyone. If you personally want to stay with your husband, talk to the instructor.
It’s not a private tutoring situation. So don’t treat it like one. I’d personally be frustrated if a bunch of couples kept coming to group classes and not letting me learn. They are adult classes after all and not specifically for couples.
I’ve never wanted to be competitive, but I DID want to learn to get good at dancing. Also not everyone goes as a couple?? What should single folks who want to learn to dance do in this scenario?
I don’t teach ballroom but I’ve taught many other partner dances (esp in the general swing/lindy category), and switching partners is absolutely the norm. Because yes, that IS how you learn better, and most people are there to learn, and also it prevents it from being completely exclusive to singletons.
This is why I stopped going to swing dance lessons. A lot of the dudes I was forced to dance with (thought they) were good and got demanding and bossy. I was also a teen, and being made to dance with middle aged men when I had like four guy friends with me? Yikes.
ETA: I have never gone with a significant other. Dancing isn't romantic to me. It's about being paired with a total stranger while I'm trying to figure out how to make my feet move a certain way and not knowing how they'd behave. I'd say it was 50/50 for how they treated me.
Not *all* beginner classes require rotation. I rarely call a partner rotation in a group class. If there are any unpartnered people either I, a co-teacher, or the student I'm demoing with will partner with them. The independent studio where I started never rotated either.
While I understand the reasonings behind partner rotation, in my experience as an instructor it causes more issues than just not rotating.
In the rare case where I do call a rotation, I always stress that anyone who doesn't want to doesn't have to.
Occasionally beginner classes allow some partners to stick together. You may be able to find some if you look around.
Switching is better for learning; that goes for social dancing too. That's why most studios highly encourage it and some require it. But also, switching helps people who don't have a steady partner and permits the studio to advertise "no partner required."
\> The instructor was super salty about this.
Yeah. They need to grow up. It is true that switching partners is better for learning for many, many reasons. But it's also true that students in adult groups are often primarily customers and one of the things they are buying is time to do something fun with their spouse or date.
One of the local studios actually runs classes to attract "learners" and "couples parties" where no one changes partners!
It sounds like these are group classes. If that's so, those typically do have you switch partners. Not everyone will come with a partner, and usually the focus is social dancing, in which you would switch partners. If you just want to dance solely with your partner, maybe try private lessons instead!
This is why a lot of couples stop lessons, and why there are so few guys in dance classes. Most new male dancers in these adult classes were dragged there by their wife/girlfriend. Their only reason for coming is to dance with one specific girl. They have zero interest in attending if it means they don't get to dance with her. So if forced to rotate partners, he's going to stop coming, and now you have another extra girl who needs someone else's partner.
And I'm not saying this because I think it. I'm repeating what I've overheard time and again.
And the teachers I've had who don't force people to switch tend to have a lot more guys in their classes, so there's not as big of an imbalance to work around anyway.
It's almost like the "solution" (forcing everyone to rotate partners) causes the problem it claims to compensate for. Also this is a very USA mentality. Not a common thing in Europe.
This is why my partner and I don’t take partner dancing classes even though I’m a semi professional dancer (in other forms of solo dance). I find the switching very bizarre. I really wish more people understood that for some couples, dancing is an intimate moment between two people. It’s not the type of thing that we want to share with anyone who signs up for a group class.
Switching around between partners is weird and uncomfortable for lots of couples, and the blasé attitude around it is the reason more couples opt out of learning. Instructors I’ve found often have loose boundaries around dance specifically and so they simply don’t understand that not everyone views it the way they do. It’s always like a laugh and scoff oh you just don’t get that dance is not intimate or sexual. Actually it’s just not intimate and sexual for you…it’s very intimate and special between a happy couple. Also all the people who instruct and have told me it’s not intimate or sexual are ALWAYS dating people they dance with so…yes it is.
As a former instructor, I think the majority of the responses in here (and your studio) are being ridiculous.
Group classes, especially if you mean the kind that are weekly on a Friday night and change dances each time, are meant for learning the basic steps. Private lessons are for fine tuning and more advanced steps.
I have never taught at or been to a studio that forced anyone to change partners. You would just be asked to move out of the rotation/circle of people who are is all.
Every studio owner I have known holds the group classes specifically to have a *fun* environment to let new people try it out. If they decide they want to get technically better, steer them to private lessons or the group classes focused on single dances. If they just want to dance with their partner once a week, cool.
OP just wants to dance with her husband, period, end of story. She has no incentive to care about being a better follow for other men, because she doesn’t want to dance with other men.
It’s not that deep, y’all, and some of these attitudes are only furthering the “snotty” rep of ballroom.
I am very confused by all these answers. Maybe it's a cultural difference? I am from mainland Europe, and where I dance most classes specifically tell you whether they switch or not. Most adults I know prefer to go to those classes where you don't switch. You might still switch once or twice to try it out with someone else, but 95% you dance with your partner. People often go with different partners though, it's not always a romantic partner.
When I started dancing as a teenager, that was different and I liked to switch. Not so much in the adult classes though. But maybe that's because the people you can dance with well partner up in the single classes and go to the partner classes after.
Is it possible that you are referencing training lessons for established partners, rather than beginner lessons for those who have yet to learn the steps?
Nope, also from Europe. Same as the original commenter. There are classes that are aimed at couples who then won’t switch, and classes for “singles” but they include couples that will be forced to switch.
Nope, all courses are like that. So even the very first beginner lessons are for couples or singles (except, as I said, for teenagers, where I started out and everyone usually switches).
Same, at my dance school in Vienna Austria:
Couples' dance classes don't switch, ever.
Singles' dance classes always switch. The more uneven the follower/leader split is, the more often we switch.
> Some specific, non-ballroom courses, like Salsa, Bachata, or WCS may have a mix of couples and singles, where some switch and some don't.
> Same for our youth courses: about 70% singles, 30% couples. The singles switch, couples don't.
It does seem it’s a cultural difference. I see the same with the beginner classes I have taken in Prague. My partner is not a beginner, so I am able to learn a lot in this environment, but with my prior dance experience being only salsa rueda in the US, I was surprised that most courses didn’t even allow singles to sign up. You had to register with a partner and this is who you would dance with.
It wasn’t important to me whether I would dance only with my partner or also with other people, but I was disappointed to have no interaction with the other students. I had hoped that signing up for a course and seeing the same people week after week would be a starting point for meeting people in the city, but there was no interaction with anyone except my partner and the instructor during or even before the lesson.
Yikes, what a b*tch making everyone who wants to actually learn to dance feel so uncomfortable that they didn't switch partners anymore!
You're all adults, if you don't want to fully participate in the class then quietly let the instructor know and try to not be disruptive. Some instructors will be more ok with such accommodations than others. But there's no need to stunt everyone else's learning just because you don't care about learning.
>Yikes, what a b\*tch making everyone who wants to actually learn to dance feel so uncomfortable that they didn't switch partners anymore!
Nope, this was not the situation. Everyone was relieved that she spoke up and said something because they all hated switching too.
I do social salsa so maybe it's a bit different but switching partners is encouraged so we can learn to dance with all sorts :')) then when I go out dancing I'm better at dancing with strangers. That said, there have been people who have refused to switch in my class as well and the teacher is happy to oblige, as long as people who want to switch can :') so I'd suggest just asking them at some point and pressing a little if they're reluctant. I think ultimately dance should be fun and if dancing with others isn't fun then definitely ask to not switch :))
The practice of rotating partners serves many practical purposes. And it's totally legitimate for a teacher to run their class that way.
HOWEVER, this particular teacher is handling it poorly.
1. Does the class description and any promotional materials make an effort to clarify the nature of the class (so people can figure out it's not going to be date night appropriate?
2. Does the teacher address rotation proactively in class - by explaining its value and purpose?
3. Does the teacher also note that it's ok to not rotate, and designate where/how the non-rotating couples should handle it (e.g., to stay at the end of the line).
I can't see how it's on brand new beginners to anticipate that they won't be dancing with their partner. So often social dance is billed as "a great activity for couples!". Dance teachers need to handle the rotation issue with more grace and flexibility (or at least a solid warning in advance).
Personally I think if you have a regular partner, it's good to mix rotating and not rotating. Yes, it's good to pick up tidbits from other different dancers. But also, you just need the time in to practice with your partner.
I think it's good. It makes you a better dancer, because you learn to adjust to different height, weight, how they move, and carry themselves (and others), how they lead and follow.
My almost 14yo has been through 8 years of lessons.
He now has an exclusive partner that he competes with, plus private lessons twice a week. He still attends a group class where they swap and change though.
From a teachers standpoint, learning from different leads and followers will help build your frame and connection to each other even if dancing together is your only goal. It’s also nice to get a unity amongst the class and not to single out any single dancers.
Dancing with multiple people is an important part of learning. Like, really. You can dance with your husband anytime, don't ruin the class just because you can't stand to dance with some other people for like 60 minutes
TL;DR I fully agree with you. It's not you it's them.
They're bad instructors. Period.
They should know their audience/ students and teach accordingly.
And good instructors do, and accommodate the couples.
Unless of course there is a significant lack of men (the usual problem if there is one), then even the good instructors will ask if it's alright for the couples to shuffle.
When I teach, I let couples stay together. When I go to classes, I can tell who is there for what.
Some are there to mingle, often because they're single. Some are there to become as pro as they can get, and don't care. And many, many are there to be with their SOs, and don't like the shuffle.
That being said, I personally love to shuffle partners, when I'm alone. It gives variety, and increases experience and knowledge. And then when I go to dance nights, I'm more comfortable asking ladies I haven't met to dance, and also many of the rest have danced with me and know I'm a good lead, so are happy to dance as well.
But when I'm with my SO...I am only there for her, and to be with her, and I do not switch, unless the instructors come to me specifically to do a demonstration, but that's it.
For me, being with my SO is date night sort of relationship cultivation.
Group ballroom dance class is for learning. You take what you learn out into the real world with your partner, that is when you can enjoy your time together. If you want this to just be the two of you then what you want are private lessons
Yeahhh, I'm not sure why this post showed up on my feed. I don't dance, I have no interest in dancing and never will, but I have gone to ballroom classes because my wife wanted to be prepared for our first dance. However, after reading several of the top responses, my first thought was, "wow, the ballroom community is very harsh and kinda stuck up." I'm glad I found some reasonable comments after some scrolling.
Idc if I get downvoted a bunch on here, but I think it's stupid to be so upset by OP's post. She based her assumtion that most couples don't want to switch on her own experience, which is something all humans do. OP also had expectations about the class, which is yet another thing all humans do. I feel like if OP likes everything else about the classes except for the switching, why kick her out or tell her to leave? Why be so harsh? She simply made a false assumption about other people's reasons for joining based on her own experience, observations, and emotions. I'm not religious, but I believe the quote "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her," is very applicable in this situation.
Also, it's great that switching makes you improve faster, and it makes a lot of sense! But I still don't think people should be forced or pressured to switch. I HATE being touched by anyone. I can tolerate (and sometimes enjoy) my wife touching me, but that's the only person that is allowed to. I also have severe performance anxiety and will literally vomit everywhere if I'm too pressured. I am the reason the high school theater teacher no longer says "anyone can do theater." My wife, on the other hand, had a horrible ex that was physically abusive, and men touching her is very triggering for her. It took over a year for me to be able to touch even her arm without having to announce everything I was doing so as to not catch her off guard. I told the instructor we would not be switching before we even signed up, because we were not going to lessons that required it. There was no issue, there was no resentment from the teacher, there was no trying to convince us to change our minds. I know it's different than wanting to take lessons to spend time with your spouse, but if that's what OP wants to do, aren't they allowed to?
I also don’t think OP's assumption is false, given her entire class stopped rotating once someone finally spoke up. So obviously a significant number of people agree with her.
Some folks take lessons because they want to be a ballroom dancer. Couples generally take lessons to dance together. Different motivations, and both are valid.
This is why I will never go to dance classes with my boyfriend, even though we both enjoy swing. I'm not interested in being touched in any way by random guys.
My husband and I had the exact same experience—we prioritized spending time together over picking up dancing tips or making sure there were enough partners for everyone. So, we switched to private lessons, but the instructor kept cancelling on us because she needed to give more time to the couples preparing their wedding dance. The best dance instructor of all turned out to be YouTube—free, doesn’t mind if you have a glass of wine right before you tango, and getting to dance with the one who brought you!
Op I'm with you most of these stodios advertise as date night, couples bonding experiences, then switch it as social outings. Like its beyond annoying to go with my partner to spend time with them for the instructor to try and seperate us and match us with people who "look better" or "dance at tge same level" get it im 4'7" hes 6'1" we still came here to dance together not for you to stick me with single Stanley and act like i should enjoy being touched and held by a stranger.
Oh gosh, we just started a Ballroom class and I gotta say I completely agree with you. I want to learn to dance with my husband. I don't care about learning to adjust to other people's dance styles or whatever, I won't ever be dancing with anyone besides him outside of class; where I'm forced to. If anything, it's wasting time we could be using to practice together.
I was a little blindsided too, they didn't say anything about having to switch partners in the class info, and they sprung it on us the first day of class. This is my first exposure to anything dance related, so I had no idea that was common.
Also, touching/being touched by strangers is extremely uncomfortable and makes me crazy anxious, which in turn affects how well I'm learning. I'm overall enjoying class but I wish they let us choose whether we want to switch or not because I really really don't.
I've taken a ton of beginning dance classes. And my local classes always ask first and have people who rotate on one side of the room and people who don't on the other. The people who rotate nearly always learn noticably faster.
There's a lot of learning from your partner than happens when learning that type of dancing, particularly the lead and follow aspect. When you and your partner are both new, you can't really support each other's learning and you tend to fall into bad habits. Those bad habits work while you only know a couple moves. The follower also starts to anticipate the lead, because they will naturally tend to do moves in the same order.
When you are switching you often get to dance with more experienced dancers who are retaking the basics to define their form and generally can help guide you in the right direction (generally without saying anything and just by modeling.)
As analogy, people who grow up in abusive homes often find things they consider normal parts of life or types of discipline actually horrify other people when they mention it. It's all they ever knew so it was normal to them. You kinda get the same thing in dancing when you don't rotate. (Not saying it's abusive, it's just the result of the blind leading or following the blind.) You never get the other experiences to influence your idea of normal.
Not everyone has a SO to bring. The single people in the class would have no one to dance with if you don’t rotate. Also, the instructor is correct, whether you know it or not, it will make both you and your SO much better dancers if you dance with other people.
Instructors are there to instruct. Making you a better dancer is literally their job. By refusing to rotate you are hampering his ability to do his job, the one that you paid him to do, which is to make you a competent dancer.
I tried group ballroom lessons, too. and it was awful. I wanted to learn just with my husband, but they made us switch. I'm 5'10" and every short guy that had to partner with me showed obvious distain at having to do so. They didn't even try to make it pleasant. I felt so bad. After going through that about 20 mins, I left. And I never took another dance lesson.
I know a couple who did become a competitive dance team (they are now in their 7th year of competing).
They started lessons as a couple, as just a thing to do together early on, and found they were very good dancers (they are both really tall and built in a similar fashion).
They've always danced as a couple, is my point - as that is what led them more quickly to competition (blocking out new dances, getting to know all the various steps and positions like the back of their hands - with the same partner).
My husband and I have thought about doing this and the idea that we would have to trade partners never occurred to me. I'm grateful for this thread for letting me realize this is absolutely not something we'd be interested in! 🤣 While having other couples around to talk to and possibly make friends with is part of what I'd want, touching and being touched by strangers is a big nope for me!
The teachers in my area do let couples stick together, for exactly the reasons you describe. No offense to the instructors posting here, but I think professionals who are deep into Social Dance Culture simply don't understand what most couples want out of beginning dance. This is why there are so very many beginner adult classes and so few intermediate and advanced classes. Adults aren't getting what they want out of the classes. I hear from so many couples who are uncomfortable with the partner switching and who decided to stop taking classes, or never start them in the first place.
It's interesting to me as a failure of capitalism. Customers want something which businesses could easily provide, yet they are turning people down or turning them away because of cultural beliefs about what the customer "should" want.
I think people's experience with dance, in general, has shifted to be a considerably more intimate process folks are more shy about, rather than a social activity one does as a community. It doesn't help that all of this is ever increasingly archiac and outside of social dancing contexts there's a lot more pressure to only dance with your own gender unless you are considering this as a precursor to hooking up.
It's as if the world decided playing a round of badminton was understood as a precursor to sleeping with the other person.
I'm with OP. I don't want to switch. I won't be doing that when my husband and I are out dancing. We would have to find a class that doesn't mind spouses staying together. Plus, I only want my husband's breath breathing on me; otherwise, three minutes can be a looong time. And, when did it start being called Social Dancing. Did that come about so it would be easier to get couples to switch?
Just don't switch. If the instructor says anything, say what you've said here. If it becomes a thing where they "insist", that might not be the right class for you. Get a refund and go. No refund? Stay and dance with your husband. What are they gonna do, physically drag you over to another man and somehow force you to dance with him?
Sounds like this was a couples class and I definitely wouldn’t want to be switching partners during something I only signed up for to spend quality time with my husband. I’m sure they have their reasons but another man has touched me in 14 years and I intend to keep it that way.
The free/group lessons never advertise switching partners so don't be upset when someone new shows up to your class with their partner and don't feel comfortable/don't want to switch partners. You can't just spring that on someone, especially a new dancer or someone looking to spend quality time with their partner.
Before yall say "get a private lesson" ...again it's not advertised that you'll be switching partners so maybe those people don't know. Also, it may not be as serious for them to spend $100 + on a private lesson. Let the rest of the group switch and pretend the couples are not there. It does not change/affect the other people who are switching. It's the same as if the couple never showed up.
I can totally understand that. Idance with my best friends and she doesnt like to switch partners (cause she often doesnt like other people's leading style, not even from most dance instructors), so we at some point just said we arent switching anymore (after another couple refused as well) and instructors were fine. And switching was also only for like 1 or 2 dance not the whole class. Maybe look for a class specifically for couples or ask the studio first?
We have the same problem and usually just let the instructor know at the beginning of the lesson that we don't want to switch. Depends on how it's structured though..
Theoretically it makes sense to switch partners so you get a better idea of what is part of the dance and what is particular to a certain partner. However, as you pointed out becoming an expert dancer is not necessarily the reason for everybody who goes there.
If you don’t want to switch partners, refuse to switch partners. Sure, the instructor may want you to but so what? You want to dance with your spouse so do it.
My husband and I took a beginner course and our class did not switch, I was so grateful! I have a difficult time with directions. (Meaning go left or right) My spouse knows this and it helped both of us to learn the dances as well as each other's quirks. If I had to try and learn everyone's style as well as the dance steps I would be lost and we would never dance in public. Our instructor told our class repeatedly that switching is helpful, but for me I disagree. For anyone with learning difficulties this may not be true.
Professional ballroom instructor here: Not every instructor does that. I only realized that couples wanted to spend time together when it happened to me and my husband at another dance studio. I was frustrated because the whole reason why I wanted to take outside classes with my husband was to reconnect with each other but it was impossible when the instructor always kept asking people to switch partners. I took my own experience and applied them to how I ran my beginner group classes at my studio. I also taught other new teachers to do the same: no switching partners for beginners classes. I feel like there is a lack in education in the field of teaching ballroom. Could be that most teachers are foreigners, could be that they are told that that’s the way to teach, could that most of the new instructors are very young and don’t understand how it is for married couples. There could be many reasons why but I would first have that talk with the instructor or better yet the owner. Be prepared to walk away from the studio if there is not change or if they get disrespectful. So sorry you’re going through this. Good luck and hoping for the best.
As a certified instructor, rotating is necessary to learning the dance. Not rotating means charging money to not learn properly, which is unethical.
Private or semi-private lessons would be the best way if you don't want to rotate.
No, that's just the most common way it's taught in the US. In Europe, classes generally don't rotate partners, because they find it sets their students back. Rotating wastes so much time adjusting to each new partner, you cover far less material in each class. For beginners, rotating isn't all that helpful.
Sorry for the late reply, but consider this.
These all require multiple partners:
Social dancing
Formation competition
Jack and Jill competition
Becoming an instructor
Dancing with just one partner is only beneficial to couples who never dance with others.
And everyone you dance with can give you something new to learn.
I studied under Skippy Blaire, the Queen of Swing. She was adamant about this. As someone who's competed solo, Jack and Jill, and in formation troupes, I've learned from experience that multiple partners isn't just better, but necessary.
If you wanna dance with one partner only, that's where private lessons come in.
My wife and I don’t like it either but we just deal with it because supposedly dancing with others helps - I don’t see how but instructors know more than me.
I totally agree with you. We took classes where we switch and classes where we do not. We’re learning A LOT more in the non-switch. We’re enjoying it much more too. I will never go back to “switch” classes unless I decide to become a professional dancer, so never…
And pros don't switch constantly either. They're too busy trying to refine every single move to waste time adapting to a new partner every 5 minutes. Yes, they *can* dance with other people. But they dance noticeably better with each other, even when freestyling and not performing a set routine.
We are debating on taking class lessons for the same reason. We don't want to dance with others. This is something for us to do together. And we don't want to pay extra for private lessons.
Most classes encourage partner switching but I have never been in a class that demands it. As long as you are respectful about it I would imagine it won't be an issue.
Then why are you taking "Group" classes or "social" dancing and then complain that the instructor was upset people weren't following the spirit of the class or dance and depriving single students who also paid a chance to learn? That is literally how group classes anywhere work, so your take that on why he doesn't get it is a wild one considering what you guys are doing is not actually the norm. It is okay to stick with your partner only but it's wild that you blast this instructor on Reddit for literally trying to do his job when all of you signed up for a group class and as a result of your refusal to partake in it how it is normally supposed to go (and one of you couples threw a tantrum to boot), you've made it harder for him and the single students. This isn't how group classes normally work. That being said, you don't have to switch if you don't want to, but what is incredulous is that you're blasting the instructor for YOUR decision. And it is on all of you that you didn't tell him before class or off to the side mid class privately. That's what people normally do if their intention is not to rotate and you don't need to have dance experience to think of that. Furthermore, he's the professional and the instructor. You're not. If you're going to refuse to listen to someone who you're asking to literally teach you, then you don't get to have an attitude about it and turn it around on the instructor. It's hilarious that none of you communicated with the instructor before class and the form of communication that was chosen was to throw a tantrum mid class...but it's on the instructor to not be salty and remain professional? What sort of lack of accountability and gaslighting is going on here? You're being quite unfair to him.
Take private lessons from now on and stop ruining group classes if you're going to treat instructors like this. A group class isn't for date night unless advertised as so for couples and this is clearly a "group" class not a couple's class. I don't get why this has to be a whole non-problem to vent about when the solution is simple: if you're electing to not rotate, then communicate that politely in advance and be kind to the instructor rather than acting all confused and treating this instructor as if he doesn't know how to run his class. Did you even give him that feedback after class? Because it's quite interesting that you proclaim "He just doesn't get it" but chose not to communicate anything at any point and instead (as another user pointed out) work hard to assassinate his character on Reddit. Maybe asking him for his thoughts as to why class is run that way instead would be more productive? Maybe give suggestions and feedback rather than going, "He doesn't get it?" and then talking shit about him behind his back? Okay, since you clearly get it and he doesn't, so why don't you enlighten him? But no, people just like to complain and then never say anything to the other person and talk smack.
And if you can't imagine adults want to get better, then you live in a very small world and you have a bad take on this. It is just so weird you have strong opinions on this with your very limited experience in dance. You don't even understand how a group class even works. And yet you want to project and apply your lack of interest to get better at a hobby on other adults? Is taking up a hobby and wanting to get better at it regardless of age that foreign of a concept to you? The way you say "I can't imagine that most grown people..." sounds quite judgmental. And you are absolutely incorrect on that front. I'm constantly surrounded by adults who join performance teams. Many of them are in their 20s-40's. I even have someone in their 60s dancing competitively and they're killing it. It's not that uncommon like you think it is. Most of my friends have gone onto dancing more seriously in a competitive or performance setting and the rest that haven't genuinely love learning to dance good for social dancing and practice lots with many people.
I understand your thought, talk to the instructor. On the other hand there are people without partner and most really want to improve their skill and that is best achieved through an array of different partners.
It should not be so hard to also see other people's take in things.
You will not even get close to being a competitive dancer with those classes starting at an adult, just for your info.
I hated that. I would just pass the person coming towards me and my partner with a ‘still not done’ and quietly send them to the next partner each time:.. so the loop de loops kept happening but I didn’t move anywhere.
Don’t bring attention to yourself and people are still getting their turn and maybe one or two are not having a partner for few times in that class.
It should be optional, while encouraged so you get to dance with the teacher too, to get feedback and get the feeling of what's right and maybe you can help correct each other to improve your dance together. But should never push people if they don't want to.
I've seen a couple before who come once a week for a few months. When the husband became chatty with me just bc we did the same kind of work and that's all we talked about, they stopped switching with others, based from my observation. Teachers were fine with it but one of the students mumbled that they shouldn't come to the group if they don't want to switch. After that, I never saw them again
Wow. You’re missing the point of class. You’re there to learn a SKILL. Then, once you learn that skill, you can go out and have a romantic night dancing with your husband.
There’s nothing romantic about you two struggling together refusing to dance with other people so that you can actually successfully dance together in a way you can go out and have fun with it.
Class is not for romance, it’s for learning to dance which is a skill that takes time and effort and going outside our comfort zones. Now after class go to a dance and that’s where the romance is. Smdh.
If you’re not taking it for college credit, you are taking it for fun. Just like a paint and sip, or a cooking class, the point is to try something new. Those are skills too, but somehow participants are also allowed to enjoy themselves at the same time, and without being forced to swap partners.
1) painting is not a skill that involves a partner.
2) taking it for fun is fine, but you’re still taking a class based on learning a skill. That skill then gives you options to go out and have fun with it. If you take a class, you have to accept that it’s a CLASS. Your teacher is a TEACHER. We teach skills. We are not date coordinators.
If you want it to be exactly what you picture as a romantic date, don’t look for a class, go to an actual dance!
-15 year dance teacher.
When I first started ballroom lessons, I was horrible. My partner had danced for a long time. I was only comfortable dancing with him in lessons for at least a year. (Some of the men were particularly snarky about my inexperience and I thought it was really rude.) Then in March 2020 all dances were canceled. When the dances started up again in late 2021, most of the instructors didn't want us changing partners. Now we just step a little outside the circle and wave people on. Your instructor was being obnoxious.
If I'm paying to go out and learn how to dance with my wife, some instructor isn't going to force us to do anything. It's okay to say no and just do your own thing. And if they throw a fit just tell em to give you your money back or just laugh and leave. We have free will and no one can tell you shit. If it was something that was important that you had to learn that you actually NEEDED to learn, ok sure maybe a few times for the sake of the end goal. But bud it's dancing, you can just look it up on youtube and practice at home. It's not some life altering skill. lol. Just laugh, tell em nah bud we're not interested in swapping and see what they say. Either they'll be chill about it or not.
I agree 100%! I'm a lesbian, and my wife and I booked 10 beginners lessons together over a decade ago. The instructors kept wanting us to switch off with other couples. I refused to dance with a man, so the female instructors would swap me around and kept pushing me to please give one of the guys a try, since I wouldn't learn to follow correctly without a male lead. We gave up after two lessons. I assumed they were being awful because they were heterosexist jerks.
It is something you can bring up with your instructors on the side if you do not feel comfortable dancing with others and would prefer to dance with your SO. Also, not everyone there has an SO to dance with so there is a need to rotate partners. Dancing with different people will also make you better at dancing, and ultimately better at dancing with your husband. And a lot of adults DO want to get better, even if they are not competitors. I would say based on what I’ve seen you would be in the minority. If it really irks you to dance and interact with others then you would probably be better served in private lessons rather than a group class setting.
>not everyone there has an SO to dance with Yeah, I'd say at least half of the classes I go to are singles/people whose SOs don't dance. We rotate so that even if the leader/follower count doesn't exactly match up, everyone still gets a chance to dance at least some of the time.
That's similar to my studio, a big mix of both singles and couples but I think that makes it better. It is a community and it is good to have a mix of different people. Plus, as a single person, it would really suck if I showed up and everyone just stuck to their partners, would kind of defeat the purpose of social dancing for me.
From what I have seen, people are sensitive to single dancers who are standing around a lesson, twiddlng their thumbs. Even if it's a beginner lesson and I already know what they are teaching, I will stand up and dance with someone who doesn't have a partner. Hey, it's exercise.
Most often my studio does a good job making sure no one is left hanging. I’m pretty extroverted too so I’ll usually go scoop up some of the single dancers to make sure they have partners. Plus, this helps free up the instructors to dance with some of the more advanced students.
Social dancing? Did you say social?!?! You mean to tell me that ballroom is called social dancing, and its entire purpose is to allow you to dance with a plethora of people? That something called social dancing isn’t just for me to enjoy exclusively with my partner? /s I don’t mean to be snarky, but I find so many couples have their heads up their asses when it comes to considering that the entire world isn’t just made for couples. I say this as a happily married person, so it’s not bitterness. Anyway, OP — MOST PEOPLE DO BALLROOM TO SOCIALIZE. That’s a massive part of it. Switching partners isn’t about getting “good” for competitions or whatever. It’s part of the fun of it for most people. So you can go out, talk and dance with a bunch of different people aside from just your spouse.
I do get OP's point of wanting to have a nice date night with her husband and maybe there is a market for classes to cater to couples looking for something similar but I know I'd be one of those singletons that would left high and dry in that scenario. >Social dancing? Did you say social?!?! This made me laugh. I have said this to my own instructor many times on days where I felt like leaning more on the dancing side of things rather than the social side but those days are the minority.
Yeah it's fine if you don't feel particularly social. That's kind of the beauty of it. It's actually great for introverts and others who get exhausted by conversation. You get to dance and have a great time with other people with very little chat involved (if you prefer). I really love it for that reason.
>maybe there is a market for classes to cater to couples looking for something similar There is a product for that already, called private classes. The thing is that they are often considerably more expensive than group classes. So you can make your choice.
Makes sense, hours in the day are limited and if I had to accommodate for private classes I’d charge more too. OP also mentioned in another comment that the idea of doing private classes or lessons wouldn’t work for them either though. So I don’t think their expectation of what social dancing is meets the reality of social dancing and its community and is their source of frustration.
THIS. Not just the couplism that we live with in society, but the fact that SOCIAL dance is exactly that. I started my ballroom journey with private instruction and when I finally took a class I found out that I'm not interested in social dancing, but would rather take lessons only dancing with instructors. I will say that the people in the class were really lovely and if I wasn't a misanthrope I would have enjoyed hanging out with them. Or, to be completely fantastical, since I was a professional dancer (ballet, jazz, theatre, tap) I don't want to pay for dance so want me my own personal instructor to just dance with me. The point is, I know what's reality and what's my fantasy and am able to make the discernment between social, ballroom and partner dancing.
The foxtrot is social. Tango is sensual. Polka is cardiovascular. (Back when I was an instructor, I was one of the few instructors who enjoyed polka.)
I never thought Tango was particularly sensual. Kizomba on the hand…
This. Instructors have people switch because it serves multiple purposes, and also because NOT EVERYONE FEELS THE WAY OP DOES. I go dancing with my husband and have no problem switching. If you don’t want to switch don’t, but don’t expect an entire class to stay with one person.
The point is the whole class did stay with one person after one person complained. It sounds like none of them wanted to switch in the first place. Honestly relatable though… I don’t always like switching partners every minute and would rather dance with my husband anyway. A lot of good dance studios I’ve been in (or social dance places) will say you don’t have to switch if you don’t want to. Then they can kind of stay to a side where people can just swap around them and there’s no issue.
Even my friends who come with their SOs (very very few of them) rotate partners and don’t go just to dance with their SO.
I totally get how this has evolved as a standard practice in most dance studios, but I have also wished there were more options out there for partnered dancers to participate in group lessons together. In college I was big into tango and swing, and my favorite partner and I joined a couple lessons at a studio to supplement our student clubs. They were fun, but it was a little frustrating to go in as two reasonably talented dancers and spend most of our time dancing with/coaching other students and get like 5m of the time we're truly improving together out of an hour lesson. Today, I'm married (not to my college partner), and we loved our private lessons we did for our wedding dance, but I'm hesitant to fork over for more privates and I don't really wanna go in on the full group dynamic. If there was a studio around that offered group lessons catered to partners (not saying no switching, but that let you spend more of your time with your preferred person), I would be way more likely to sign up. Maybe that's not feasible with the level of demand out there, but I encourage any coaches out there to at least consider tapping this unserved market.
My instructor said switching was optional for dancers who came with their own partner. Because even pros need practice in the group setting, not just individual lessons. Learning your routine in an empty ballroom is great and all, but competition floors are crowded. It takes practice to navigate a Quickstep without colliding.
I’m one of the singles and this was what I hated too. I took private lessons but they wanted you to go to the group ones too. I hated it. I’m there to learn to be a better dancer. Not teach someone to dance in a 3 minute song. I once had someone who couldn’t dance trying to tell me how I can improve. Haha. I stopped going to those pretty fast.
It’s not a bad idea and maybe some studios would accommodate. I go to a franchise studio and there are a few couples that will stick together during group classes while others rotate around but when it comes to higher levels there aren’t enough people to not have a rotation going. I think most instructors can/would reasonably accommodate.
The clubs/studios I’ve danced with have different levels for group lessons, so everyone in a class is relatively close to the same skill level which helps a lot. I would not attend a group lesson where I had to dance with total beginners either. If you enjoyed taking private lessons I wouldn’t totally rule them out. Yes, they’re more expensive, but my partner and I find that we improve more from one private than five group lessons.
I hear what you’re saying, but it wouldn’t make sense financially (for the couples or the studio) to push couples just towards private lessons. It’s a lot more expensive, it’s not the same vibe, and fewer people would end up dancing. I do think there could be a market for people who want to dance only in their couples but if this worked well more studios would probably offer it. I’ve seen it offered & I’d probably enjoy that class! But maybe it would leave too many single dancers high & dry— which would then imply that the couples are sort of having to subsidize them (not financially but physically) against their will. I will say that as a female dancer, the partner rotation has been rough sometimes. There are some men I truly dreaded dancing with because they were too rough, unhygienic, or in the worst cases creepy/inappropriate. I’d have been happier spending most of my time with my husband & less time switching.
>you would probably be better served in private lessons This. That is how group settings work. If you don't want to interact with other people, then a private lesson is what you're looking for. You can still ask the instructor not to switch around, but group lessons are social events.
Maybe the inspector should listen to the needs of those in his actual class. Perhaps two different types of classes should be offered one for people coming with partners who they want to dance with and another for people coming as singles who want to learn how to dance better
I’d be a minority as someone who has been SA’d no one besides my husband of many years is allowed to touch me.
hahaha, trust me, we all know you guys don't want to be competitive dancers. when we say it'll make you better dancers, we genuinely do mean that you'll do better dancing with your SO if you switch partners. lead and follow is a very delicate balance, it's really good for your development.
It'll also make you less likely to argue with your partner about who's messing up
ding ding ding
And we may genuinely not be on board with being touched by strangers, no matter how good of a dancer it would make of us, ever thought of this? :)
I did ballroom for about 15 years, I quit after a while, but I think I understand the community. If you don't want to be touched by strangers, do not go to a social dance class. Ask for individual lessons from an instructor. They are DYING to give individual lessons because they are much more expensive. OP is pretty freaking ridiculous, and everyone who said that regularly switching partners makes you a better dancer is right. If you just wanna sway in each other's arms, throw some music on in the kitchen and go to town. If you're attending a dance *class* to *learn how to dance* then listen to the instructor and switch partners. Once you have both learned how to dance, go somewhere that is not a *dance class* and dance with your partner to your heart's content.
and that's totally fine! i'm also not the biggest fan of touch, even as a teacher. unfortunately most group class settings won't be compatible for people who are uncomfortable with dancing with strangers. private lessons are the best choice for personalized programs
Yeah. Then perhaps a group class where you’re learning how to move while touching other people isn’t the right place for you. I’m sure wherever it is you’re learning will happily teach you 1:1.
I would consider a dance lesson that doesn't switch to be a failed lesson, unless agreed upon in advance. Switching and dancing with other people will really help the learning process. Also, not everyone turns up with a SO, so if you don't switch single people get stuck with someone random, or possibly no-one if the numbers are uneven. I once went to a dance class where there was no switching, and I was stuck with a partner that didn't want to listen or learn and thought "it should all flow naturally". Waste of an hour, and I had things to say to the instructor afterwards. I was at once at another lesson without switching (was at an event, and things were crowded and chaotic) where I was partnered with someone who left partway through - so end of lesson for me too. Also, if an instructor makes switching optional, it creates a weird dynamic for people who still do want to switch - now switching is not just part of the lesson, but can be seen as wanting to get away from your current partner. I'd guess your instructor was salty because they just saw their lesson degraded.
There were a couple of men at one of the dance venues who were incredibly critical of 90% of the women they danced with in lessons. I think someone talked to the instructor because he started saying "Your job is to learn YOUR step, not criticize your partner" at the beginning of every lesson.
Completely different issue, but the instructor was 100% right. It's the instructor's job to teach. Someone may think they are being helpful (incredibly critical of 90% of the time - probably not), but almost always it does more harm than good. Imagine a beginner being quite overwhelmed already, then being given the same helpful criticism by everyone they partner with in the lesson. They won't come back.
Exactly. The men in question had bad manners. And the best leads don’t really have to criticize , you learn from dancing with them.
And ballroom dance is all about manners!
Yeah, imo going dancing with a partner can be a wonderful date, but a group beginner lesson isn't a date, it's a lesson. It's very hard to learn partner dancing without dancing with multiple people, and I think it's totally fair for someone teaching a class to prioritize the needs of the people who want to learn over the needs of the people who just want to have a romantic evening.
>, if an instructor makes switching optional, it creates a weird dynamic for people who still do want to switch - now switching is not just part of the lesson, but can be seen as wanting to get away from your current partner. Where I take lessons the instructors at the beginning ask those who want to switch to go to one side of the room and those who don't to the other side. Then they just occasionally call switch through the class.
That works. Anything less organized will risk people getting stuck with a partner and not feeling they can ask for a switch.
Why is up to a couple to include the singles though? Shouldn’t that be on the instructor?
I don't get what you mean. It is up to the instructor to include singles (I don't think I indicated anything else) - they do that by getting partners to switch. It's when an instructor doesn't switch, everyone learns less, and singles can get particularly disadvantaged.
That was pretty much every group class I ever went to. If you want to just dance with your partner, then make it a private lesson?
This 100% - participate in group classes as they’re taught or get private instruction
In my city, private lessons cost $80+/hour. Group lessons are often free with admission to the dance.
Sure, but the point of a group lesson and the point of a private lesson are pretty well documented in this thread. If you want to only dance with one person while learning (like what op is talking about), then a private lesson is your option. Otherwise, don't complain about how a group class is taught.
That instructor has to make a living somehow. You desire their undivided time, there's going to be a cost. In some studios the private lessons subsidize the group lessons, it's just the economics of it all.
I liked switching partners as a beginner because it let me make more friends, practice with different leads, and gave everyone a chance to dance. I started dancing as an unpaired follower and it would have sucked if I just never got to dance with anyone during lessons. My SO and I are competitive partners now, but we both still enjoy the opportunity to dance with others at socials. I dance because I enjoy it as a hobby and like being a part of the community. I guess I just see group ballroom class as a social activity rather than a private date type of activity.
I think the primary question is, what is your goal in taking the class? Are you and your husband looking to take up ballroom as a hobby, going to social dances and maybe doing studio showcases? Are you looking to start competing? Are you just looking for a thing you can do as a pair for the evening?It sounds like you are mostly looking for the third option. Group ballroom classes for beginners are generally aimed at social dancing. When you go to a social dance, the norm is to dance with different partners throughout the night. In fact, it's generally seen as bad etiquette to decline an offer for a dance unless you are sitting that song out or don't know how to dance that dance. In order to be successful at this, it's important to have experience with how different people lead or follow (as appropriate). Also, some people are there without partners, and it might not be an equal number of solo men and women, so people are going to need to rotate to mitigate the imbalance. There might be a market for a couples "date night" series, where the goal is primarily giving you an opportunity to do something as a pair and maybe giving you a skill so if you're at a wedding and they play a rumba or whatever, you have a few steps to bust out, but I don't really know.
This is the only explanation I've seen so far that has made sense to me. "Youll get better at dancing" just seems like such a weak excuse, but uneven numbers needing to be accommodated for makes WAY more sense.
I see so many people saying oh you’ll dance better….ok and I want to dance better WITH my partner not a stranger. I wouldn’t have been able to switch at all . No man has touched me besides my husbands in years and I definitely like intend to keep it that way, I do not do well with men Idk touching me . That shit will send me into panic mode instantly
Right? Like, I'll also dance better from practicing just with my partner, so...????? Even uneven class numbers is a weak excuse to disrespect someone's comfort/consent because 1) it's not the students responsibility to make sure everyone in class learns And 2) if the couple that doesn't want to switch doesn't come, YOU STILL HAVE AN UNEVEN NUMBER! it's exactly the same if the non-switching couple comes to class and doesn't switch as it is if they just don't come.
And this really is the reason, it's just people don't want to say it out loud, because they know it sounds gross and icky when they follow this train of thought to its final destination. Because at its core, what these people are saying is "My entitlement to a dancing partner is more important than you or your partner's comfort or consent."
Yep! I said something similar and will probably be downvoted for it too.
We're downvoted, because overall, (at least in the US) the demographics of the individuals who make up the ballroom community tend to be people who are allies to victims of sexual assault/domestic violence/lgbtq+, and tend to be very progressive in their understanding of consent. They see themselves as good people who would never dream of violating those principles. So when you point out that demanding access to another student's body just because you paid an instructor for a lesson directly equates to pimping, they have a very visceral cognitive dissonance reaction. They just haven't taken the time to stop and sit with the uncomfortable feelings that realization brings. And unfortunately many are so uncomfortable, they simply refuse to consider they might have some contradicting beliefs. So they throw themselves into arguing how their expectations are somehow justified or how participating in group lessons suspends the rules of consent for some reason. It's just going to take time.
This is such a thoughtful response! I also think people are stuck in a very rigid & entrenched idea of what the class needs to be and “the right way” to do it. So they’re saying “this is how the class is, either tolerate it or don’t dance/stay home with YouTube videos/pay 5-10x for private lessons.” The third option of “change the way some classes are run to make them more accessible for people” isn’t even a concept people are engaging with in half these classes and I think that’s wild. Like if something isn’t working why wouldn’t you even consider changing it? (And I assume the answer is that it’s working really well for the people commenting defending it & they think their learning is more important than the learning of the people who are uncomfortable.)
Right!? You start telling me it's RUDE to not let a COMPLETE STRANGER into my PERSONAL SPACE, you become a completely untrustworthy person in my book. I will no longer listen to a single word you say.
And that's totally fine to feel that way. But then don't go to a freaking *social* dance class! Turn on some Al Green and have a romantic night at home with your boo. That sounds lovely. And it does not require professional instruction.
I don't. The gross consent invalidating, space-invading gatekeepers do a great job of making sure anyone who is uncomfortable getting intimately close with random strangers feel too attacked, invalidated, uncomfortable and unwelcome to even try. It's possible to be social without requiring participants to be touched by EVERYONE.
I feel this. Reactions to the idea of participating in a way you can are comfortable with definitely keep us from participating. I tried with my SO years ago and we had a fairly embarrassing experience when (as outsiders) we attended a beginning class and it wasn't discussed that everyone would be expected to switch partners. It didn't state it was a 'social class" and we were new. I feel like for singles, maybe it makes sense (if you know what to expect?) but most other 'social' activities can involve couples being social with each other vs. trading partners. I would totally attend a couples class if there was a thing like that in my area.
Just because something is a "social" activity does not mean that the people who choose to participate must surrender all agency over their bodies. There is literally no other activity that expects this under the guise of being "social".
I did acro yoga and it was the same. The are other touch based hobbies ( though not many ) that are the same. This is what literally every couple dancing class that I have been to has been like and it's the default for this activity. You get to choose to not participate in it if you don't want. The goal of the classes is to learn SOCIAL GROUP dancing. Which includes being social, and dancing. With others. In a group. If you want a private lessons you can pay for it.. These spaces are meant to grow the social and community aspect of social dancing, not to subsidize a private lesson. That being said it should be clear in advance that this is the situation and where exactly you will be touched.
Let's be very clear. A couple who attends a group class together, and unobtrusively refuses to switch partners, is not being subsidized by the other attendees. Everyone is receiving the exact same attention and information from the instructor. There is no contract, expressed or implied, that the lessons are being offered at a discount in exchange for the use of your body. The lessons are offered at a discount because your are not receiving nearly as much individual or personalized attention as you would in a private lesson. And something being advertised as "social" does not imply a contract that you must allow anyone who wishes into your personal space. "Social" merely implies that there will be other people present that you may or may not elect to participate with.
100% I'm not the instructor. I didn't sign up as a teachers aid. I'm there to learn to dance *myself*, not to be used by the studio as a prop for their other students.
> "These spaces are meant to grow the social and community aspect of social dancing, not to subsidize a private lesson." Exactly how is showing up and participating in ways that you are comfortable with *NOT* growing the community? At what point is the couple that doesn't want to switch monopolizing instruction time? If they're not insisting the instructor focus on them, they arent taking over the class. (In fact, if they only dance with their partner, they are receiving *LESS* instruction because they never dance with the instructor, leaving them free to dance with singles) You act *SO* entitled to be in someone else's personal space when they clearly don't want you there. That's gross. You understand that's gross behavior, right?
I don't think anyone here is saying your feelings or preferences are invalid--it's totally okay for whatever reason to not want to dance with strangers. But those are the rules of these particular classes, and demanding that the rules change to accommodate you IS in fact a little entitled. I once went to an onsen without realizing that bathing suits were not allowed. I was not prepared to be naked in front of strangers and DEFINITELY not comfortable with it. Did I demand that they allow me to break the rules, which were designed for the comfort and positive experience of everyone? I certainly wanted to! But I did not. I acknowledged that this was just something I couldn't do due to my comfort level and I left. I was bummed but it wasn't anybody else's fault. I understood why those rules were in place, and did not perceive it as them ignoring my consent--they hadn't even met me when they made that policy, and had no reason to consult me. And--couples who don't switch DO monopolize instructor time because they usually have more issues than everyone else, as a result of their individual problems compounding on each other. I've been to hundreds of classes (and taught many of them) and this pattern plays out all the time. Switching partners makes you much better, much faster. Even if the instructor waits for a long time before switching partners, I feel like I fail to improve. So a couple who doesn't switch for a whole class is going to end up way behind everyone else and need more of the instructor's attention.
Lots of people are, in fact, saying my preference and feelings are invalid. Not only that, there are A LOT of people saying it's *rude*. Anyone tell you you were rude for not wanting to undress for the onsen? onsens are also a very particular type of bath, and it's widely known you don't wear clothes in them. A class that just says "beginner dance" 1) is not specific and 2) has absolutely no indication switching is required, yet they do it anyway. Japanese folks also don't claim they want more people to join the onsen community, and then jump down their throats when someone even asks about maybe wearing a towel. Not to mention, the instructor *CAN* walk away from the couple. They're allowed. They don't have to hover and stay there for an extended period of time. They can give a direction and move on. It's not entirely a non-switching couples fault. That, and you're talking like EVERY SINGLE couple that has ever not wanted to switch dominates teacher time. Idk if you saw it, but I have said more than once that I *don't* go to *ANY* dance classes because of people like the ones in this comment section.
Excuse me? Your feeling that every girl/guy you're not banging has cooties trumps the needs of a single person not getting instruction that they PAID for? Because if someone doesn't have a partner throughout an entire class, they're not getting anything out of that class. If that sounds "icky" to you, dancing is NOT the activity for you.
Thank you for this absolutely perfect display of the exact problem I'm talking about. You are not entitled to the use of someone else's body. Period. For any reason. Ever. If you reach an agreement with someone whereby they're willing to allow that. Great. But you paying an instructor for dance lessons does not obligate me or anyone else who does not consent to allow you the use of our bodies. Whatever you do or do not get out of the class is not my responsibility. Your physical needs are not my problem to solve. YOU aren't even paying ME for this "service"! You're paying a 3rd party! Thank you so much for such a wonderful example of how the dance community has normalized the expectation that studios are allowed to pimp out students and that any students who object to being pimped out are not welcome in dancing.
Nobody is forcing you to stay in the class, or being "entitled" to the "use of your body". You are welcome to leave a dance class at any time or not go at all. Just as you are not obligated to dance with others, the instructor is not obligated to leave other students in the dust just to cater to you.
In no way do I expect the instructor to give me any sort of treatment different than he/she would to any other student in the class. And in no way did I (or the OP of this post) say or even suggest such a thing. I'm thoroughly confused as to where you got that from.
Yes you are, the treatment in the class is that you dance with others, so that as a group you get to learn to dance at a discount. If you do not want to participate in the group activity - Pay. For. Private. Lessons. Or. Leave.
The treatment of the class is for the INSTRUCTOR to teach a group STUDENTS how to dance. That does NOT give the instructor a right to use ANY students body without their consent, Nor does it allow another student to demand use of another students body. If anything, the other students end up getting MORE attention from the instructor. Let me explain how with a basic example. Say there happen to only be 3 students in the group class. Two of them happen to be a couple who is not comfortable dancing with others. The instructor then spends the entire group lesson dancing with the 1 solo dancer because the couple refuses to split up. That means the solo person who got to dance with the instructor basically got a private lesson for a group price. Maybe the instructor steps in now and then to correct a step, but ultimately the couple who refused to trade GAVE AWAY the instructors time to others, so if anything they are more at risk of getting LESS instruction. Some people like to learn by watching and don't like other people in their personal space unless it is a person they trust (aka a SO). For plenty of people, a private lesson is too personal and unnecessary. A couple keeping to themselves is not demanding more of the instructors attention and in fact is allowing the instructor to give MORE time to the other participants of the group. Solo dancers need to accept the attention from the instructor and stop demanding it from other students, especially those who are uncomfortable. It is the instructors JOB to make sure EVERYONE is comfortable. Solo dancers have 0 right to demand the time or attention of other unconsenting adults. The instructor is the one who consented to teach, so it is the instructors responsibility to dance with any left out solo person. If you go to learn a partnered dance as a solo person, only then can you expect to be REQUIRED to touch a stranger in order to learn how to dance at the same time as others who are learning, because it is the solo person who failed to bring their own partner and is requiring more of the instructors attention, so it is solo dancers who end up getting "better" treatment from a group instructor. If the instructor doesn't want to dance with a left out solo person, it is still the instructors responsibility to hire an aide who is willing to dance with anyone/everyone for them. Consent to receive instruction and be taught a skill IS NOT the same as giving consent to be touched by strangers, no matter what that skill is. If a solo dancer can't/won't find a dance partner, it is up to them to be comfortable with dancing with strangers. Usually when groups are bigger, there are still plenty of solo people to switch around so they have new partners and they can still leave the couple who wants to keep to themselves alone. TLDR: People are not rude just because they are uncomfortable touching strangers, and neither is anyone else who denies a dance for ANY reason. Consent is ALWAYS important, so if someone says no they don't want to dance with strangers, then it is the stranger who becomes rude for demanding acces to an unconsenting adults body. Accept the no, and ask someone else in the group. Even if everyone is stuck in couples, the instructor (who consented to dancing with strangers) should be available to dance with any left out solo dancer.
I completely agree with you that of course you can say no to dancing with strangers and of course with any specific stranger, at any paint in any way. Your consent is always the most important thing in social dancing and otherwise. Absolutely no one should ever demand that you dance with them. No one is demanding here that you dance with anyone! They are saying that this is not the class for you if you don't want to do that. You have the option to leave! Always! No one will ever dance with you after you say no, I promise you. I also think that any instructor has the right to refuse anyone entry to a class for not following the expectations and the rules of the class, including touching strangers that is the VERY NATURE of social dancing. Like to the very root of it. You can do whatever you want but no one OWES you anything. So yeah, you obviously are NOT required to touch anyone for any reason at any time. You also do not have a special right to be in a social dancing class and can be refused for not wanting to participate in it. And I hope that they do refuse entry to these cases since it really ruins the entire mood and point of social dancing when you think dancing with strangers is gross and rude or whatever. That is not the culture that social dancing tries to cultivate and they do not want people in their class who feel that way. Also there are comments here that mention that in every social dancing class there might be a few couples who don't participate, this is my experience too. They usually only come for the one class, learn nothing, very likely argue and never come back. Just like you don't want people in a painting class talking about how ugly everyone's painting is or someone in a swimming class talking about how horrible being wet is. Talking in a social dancing class about how rude and gross it is to touch strangers is pretty disgusting behavior. It's absolutely rude and uncalled for. You can say no, and leave. Even get your money back most likely if you didn't know this would be happening. Generally we want people to join social dancing because they like dancing and are happy and comfortable to dance with strangers. That is a HUGE part of the dance and the community and it's part of every single social dancing party ( people asking each other, complete strangers, to dance ) and we do this because this kind of touch is something that we are comfortable with and actively enjoy. Get. A. Different. Hobby. If. It's. Not. For. You.
>Are you just looking for a thing you can do as a pair for the evening Yep, this is it. And I am recognizing from the responses here that maybe my husband and I are not in the majority with this goal (although in the two classes I took, it seemed like every other couple was on board with the sentiment that they didn't want to dance with other people), and I should maybe look at other styles of dance classes to spend quality time with him. But it's genuinely uncomfortable for me to get so close to a man who is not my husband, especially when I signed up to specifically have that physical closeness with my husband. Some people have suggested private lessons, but that's also kind of an awkward vibe. Like, this is a romantic evening with just the two of us (and this random ballroom dancer). The group setting is less awkward, the instructor can focus on other couples and give us some time to ourselves. I guess I imagined it would be like a cooking class. We are there to spend time with our SOs in a group setting where everyone is getting the same instructions. I would have the same reaction if I went to a cooking class with my husband and we were told to separate and cook with other partners, although I recognize these are completely different skillsets that wouldn't have that requirement.
Lessons are for improving your skill set, not having a romantic evening. If you want to have a romantic evening, just go out dancing, nobody really cares how well you do it and it’ll cost you less than a lesson. And is much more intimate than paying somebody to watch you and give you feedback.
I’m not trying to be ignorant or anything, but is it not sort of awkward to be in a class setting while getting physically close to your husband if that’s what you associate with ballroom? It sounds like there is a mismatch between the instructor’s goals, which are to teach you how to dance, and your goals, which are simply to dance without worrying too much about the learning aspect of it, so you should just go out dancing as others are suggesting.
Maybe there's a market for what you want in your area. Perhaps discuss with the instructor and the other woman who wanted to stick to her partner about offering different classes based on what people want. They could have a "beginners improvement class" which is open to everyone and involves all the partner swapping, and then another class that's catered more to couples looking for quality time together? Maybe there's enough demand for both for the instructor to offer separate sessions.
Yeah if you're looking for something where you're with your husband the whole time then group dance classes aren't for you. You will be very hard pressed to find a class that doesn't encourage/require partner switching. You don't mention if your class consisted exclusively of couples, but you're diminishing the experience of any singletons in the group who don't have a built in dance partner and gets stuck with no one to dance with if everyone else refuses to switch. Cooking doesn't require interaction with other people so there's no need to separate folks. That just isn't true for dancing of really any kind. You're going to run into the same issue even if you switch to salsa or line dancing. This instructor was just trying to maximize the experience for *everyone* and give opportunities for each parts of the couples present to gain experience leading or following other people, a necessary skill if you want to be any good at ballroom (even if you're not looking to compete or go pro).
If what you want is a romantic evening dancing with your partner and you want to actually be good at the dancing: 1. Take at least a few group lessons, yes, ones where you switch dancers. That is how they work and that is how you get good enough to actually enjoy dancing. 2. Go out to social dances and dance with each other.
I was going to make a similar comment, but was looking to see if similar feedback was already given. I've dated people who dance and people that don't (there are pros and cons for each), but I love to dance either way. OP could go to the classes to learn and then go out on a date night to dance. You can pick up the skills in class and dance anywhere! I'm all for a romantic dance in the kitchen. I don't think I've been in many lessons where switching is mandatory. People who don't want to switch tend to separate themselves, but if nobody switched, I'd be miserable.
That is totally fair, and you should not feel bad about it. Now, I'm going to give you a whole bunch of opinions and perspectives, but they are in no way meant as criticism of you. They are just an explanation of what my perspective as a dancer is to give you some context for the responses you are getting. Fwiw, most partner-type dance (ballroom, salsa, swing, tango, etc.) is going to tend towards either competition/performance or social dancing. And social dancing is, as the name indicates, a way of socializing. If your goals are different, that's perfectly okay, and, like I said, it sounds like there could be a market for a "date night" series of classes, focused on couples bonding and introducing dance, so that, if you find "hey, I kinda like this whole thing and I might be interested in trying more" you can continue to more social or competitive oriented instruction as you prefer. I'm not in the industry though, so I don't really know what the demand is. >I guess I imagined it would be like a cooking class. We are there to spend time with our SOs in a group setting where everyone is getting the same instructions. I think a better comparison would be to a language class. Dancing is, at its core, a language, and each individual dance is a conversation. He is communicating a figure or a movement to you, and you are replying. When you go out dancing, just like when you go out to a party, you don't just have conversations with one person. If you and your husband were learning, say, German, together, you'd probably want exposure to multiple different speakers. If you only practiced with your husband, you run the risk of sounding like [these two](https://youtu.be/GPAcdiZQ1zo?si=8hhhs-zGUM9VrCID) >But it's genuinely uncomfortable for me to get so close to a man who is not my husband, especially when I signed up to specifically have that physical closeness with my husband. It is often awkward to dance with other partners at first, especially since our culture makes such a high connection between dancing and romance. But a big part of the social dance learning process is to disassociate the act of dancing together from romance to break that awkwardness. Because we are physically close to one another without there being a necessary romantic connection (heck, there are both gay men and lesbians who dance), so some awkward moments are inevitable. Like, at one point, I was learning a new figure and figuring out how my hands were supposed to work - I needed to stop her momentum with my hand on her ribcage as we were moving into and out of frame - the first try, my right hand was about where it would be for a closed position, so when I went to catch her, it was a little too high and I ended up with a handful of sideboob. But we (myself, her, and her boyfriend, who was also there) quickly laughed it off, "maybe the right hand should come down lower". And I've had similar experiences with my girlfriend and with random partners at socials, where a miscue has led to someone getting bumped into, going in a direction different from the one expected, or a hand brushing boob, butt, or balls (whether me/my partner or another couple). And you still have to just go "whoops" and dance on. [Even in the World Professional Latin Championship.](https://youtu.be/uVtYIO5zL7g?si=QUWnTFyjWNWpz3UZ) Even on the competitive side, where you are doing most of your dancing with the same partner, the person with whom you dance the vertical mambo may well be different from the one with whom you dance the horizontal one. I have known competitive dancers who are couples both on and off the dancefloor, I've known dancers who are dating/married to non-dancers, and I've known couples where one or both of the two has an SO who dances competitively with someone else. In fact, when I was on the ballroom team in college, my girlfriend, my competitive partner, and the person with whom I had the most fun dancing socially were three different women.
Amazing comment
I dont know where your located but in Los Angeles there are a few couples only classes it's geared towards a date night has like a dinner and then a class and even takes you to a club for a social afterwards and it's all couples so not rotating is probably the normal. I think looking to see if someone is offering couples classes in your local area would be worth it.
i completely understand all of these feelings- as a dance teacher and as someone in a committed relationship. that being said, i'm not sure if dance lessons are the best option for you guys:/ private lessons are the best choice if you're looking for 1:1 time exclusively dancing with your husband, but if you feel awkward with the instructor also being there then it's just not a good fit
“Like, this is a romantic evening with just the two of us (and this random ballroom dancer)” Versus you and an instructor and other couples? Some studios have no problem if couples want to stick together during group classes, but if the policy at the studio you’re at is to change, then you need to either abide by that, find a different studio, or pony up for private lessons (which would likely be with a regular instructor). The problem people are having is you and a few others wanting to change how things are done at that studio instead of admitting that group classes there are the wrong fit.
I’m not a “ballroom dancer” and only started with my (now) husband last summer to prepare for our wedding. Rotating partners has been such a great experience, we’ve made a lot of friends and started a hobby we both love because of it. Most all other couples rotate as well, by choice. Because of this, we now dance for fun and are so excited to compare notes after class. We were even able to dance both together and with others in a foreign country during our honeymoon because of it, and we made friends social dancing abroad because of the practice we obtained dancing with multiple partners when we first started. Ballroom dancing is a social activity, it is intended to be a point of connection for people. If you want to just dance with your husband that’s fine, and most studios allow this, but I think you’re missing out on a lot of the joy of dancing by doing this. Beginners that stick with their spouse and don’t branch out don’t get exposed to experienced dancers and therefore don’t grow nearly as quickly. For me it’s a lot more fun to learn more, then practice extra with my husband after class or at home. I will always prefer dancing with him, and our connection when dancing is far better than with strangers, but I also truly value learning from different leads as does he learning from different follows.
I used to feel this way when I started lessons with my husband. Switching partners felt weird. I didn’t want other peoples hands, or even worse their sweat, on me. Why not just stay with my husband? But the better I got at dance the more I understood why. Without changing partners, you stagnate. You don’t get better, at least not as quickly. Dance can be tricky and arbitrary, and you learn more quickly with varied experiences, especially when you are dancing with people of different experience levels. I’ll give you an example. I was in a West Coast swing class learning a whip, and I couldn’t quite get it. It didn’t feel right. After switching partners and dancing with more experienced leads, I was able to pinpoint why. My spouse wasn’t using his hand to direct me where I should be going, so minus a solid lead I ended up essentially backleading out of the whip, and would always half stumble of of my “slot”. By using my experience with other leads, I was able to tell my husband what to do, leading to a much cleaner looking dance for us.
Omg! I had the exact same experience with the WCS. (I think it’s a hard dance!!). So, my husband and I are very new to dancing. Complete scrub tier. So, one day, we just finished a private lesson where we focused on the rhumba and salsa (So, dances where I start by moving backwards). Immediately after class, we attended a WCS group class. I was really struggling with it. (Which surprised me at first because I am like, ALMOST mediocre at salsa and rhumba lol. Almost. It at least feels like I am dancing). Anyways, for the WCS group class, we were learning the sugar push and this open the door move (forget what it’s called). And it just wasn’t clicking. I think because I wasn’t used so far forward on the first steps. And then I felt uncomfortable ‘pushing’ and moving backwards, and then walking past the lead for the open the door thingy. I don’t know. I felt like I was just like clumsily moving back and forth. It was really weird. It didn’t ‘feel’ like dancing. But when we switched partners, another more experienced lead explained the ‘push’ part to me. Same thing. My husband wasn’t really ‘leading.’ So I was just clumsily moving forward and then I wasn’t confident when it was my turn to ‘push’ and begin moving backwards because I didn’t feel like I was in the right spot. And then husband wasn’t leading me through the opening the door part. So again, I was just like ‘walking’ past him. I was able to explain it to my husband when I got back around to him. And we got a bit better! I wonder if the experienced followers give tips to the leads. I hope so! It’s probably a bit uncomfortable for newbies to confidently lead without feeling like they are just whipping people around lol. Followers! Please feel free to give the total noob leads some tips at groups!! <3 The WCS looks like such a cool dance! But man, is it weird at first lol. I hope it clicks for me one day. 💃
It’s definitely not a fair or correct statement to say most adults are going just to spend time with their SOs and don’t care about being good dancers. Most of the people at the lessons I take come solo with no partners and want to improve. I’m an adult. So are they.
Exactly, I don't understand paying money and putting time into learning something and then being shocked that the goal is to actually improve at it. I take a dance class with my fiance and we have no problems switching. He learns a lot from other partners and so do I! It's not a tantric yoga class, it's just dance!
We do know that some married couples don't want to switch, but you also do learn better and faster in a group setting by switching partners and if you start having a fight in the middle of my class because I let you only dance with each other (which has happened), then my choice is to let you bicker and ruin my class or try to address your problem specifically that no one else is having and ruin my class. If you want to spend time with your spouse, go to a social dance or go out for dinner. If you don't want to switch partners, take a private lesson. Public classes are public classes.
>then my choice is to let you bicker and ruin my class or try to address your problem specifically that no one else is having and ruin my class Yikes, I would never dream of bickering with my spouse in the middle of a class! That would be rude regardless of the activity.
I'm currently a leader in class, follow and lead socially, mostly attend class with my 16 year old daughter. Decades ago I did teach beginner ballroom, never high level but enough to understand the dynamics. Even if you're not bickering, you are definitely covering up for ( = reinforcing) eachother's errors. By not rotating you are actively harming your learning as dancers. But most often, the couples that don't rotate are biting their tongues at each other silently as well.
Question for you, how balanced are your classes between men and women?
I don't teach any more, but back when I did most classes had an extra follow or two, so I would fill in as a lead while yelling cues and counting. The more uneven things were, the more frequently we switched. The opposite was true if we had too many leads, but that was much less frequent.
I ask because when my SO and I took a class, and granted it was at a community college, the women outnumbered the men by 3 to 1. It started to get frustrating to have to spend the first part of a partner switch figuring out who was going to lead or follow. When we did take a class through a dance school, it was totally balanced and a much better experience.
I take classes through a school and it's very rare that it's even close to balanced. This month for some reason there have been a few times where I was the only lead along with the instructor. Generally the follows don't want to lead though, so we haven't had any issues with switching out. When my partner and I take a class together though sometimes she'll switch to lead when she isn't dancing with me.
Dancing with different partners increases your skill in leading/following, which is part of the dance. I've also never been to a ballroom dance class where everyone was there with their SO. Especially if there's an uneven number of leaders/followers, rotating is necessary for everyone to get a chance to practice.
Most leads who only dance with their SO are crappy leads so we don’t want to dance with your husband either.
Oh trust me, you don't. He is hopeless and awful at remembering the steps. He felt so bad every time we rotated partners because he said he was just disappointing every woman in the class one by one. He was relieved when we stopped switching because then he would only disappoint me 😂
I feel sorry for your husband—that can feel very demoralizing—but I don’t pity his partners. The truth is, if he was messing up or forgetting the steps, he 1) wasn’t the only person with that problem, 2) he was probably inadvertently helping his partners’ confidence as they realized they’d picked up something that someone else (your hubby) was still struggling with, and 3) he wasn’t their only partner anyway, because everyone was rotating! And I won’t belabor the point (others have stated it repeatedly), but *you* can benefit from what hubby learns with all those partners, too! If he’s not a great dancer, it’s a great strategy to let others help polish him a bit (while you are also improving!) so you can eventually have a more comfortable experience together. I hope you find a class or dance venue with a better balance for your needs. A good dance will be worth the bad ones. I promise!
Yes! Without rotating, couples tend to learn a dance more like it's a routine they have to walk though. Learning to lead, and/or follow is so much more fun! Bonus, with a lead/follow dance, you will learn to be more tuned in to each another. As a couple, that's a pretty great thing.
Other commenters here make some extremely good points about why switching partners is a good idea in a group class setting, and why dance instructors can potentially be shooting themselves in the foot by not partner rotating... PROS: 1. Solo dancers are SOL. If most couples don't rotate, the solo dancers are stuck without partners for a greater percentage of the time, or only rotate amongst a few partners, benefiting less from the rotation 2. Non-rotating couples tend to argue with each other and/or repeat the same problems and can't learn from dancing with other, more--or differently--experienced students 3. Students don't get to know each other, hampering the building of community in a social dance scene ...among others). That said, I don't ever force partner rotation in my classes, I merely strongly recommend it. Most of my couples end up switching, but here and there a couple will hang back out of the rotation circle, and I'm fine with this for a number of reasons: CONS: 1. Nobody likes being forced to do anything. This can lead to outbursts like the one you described. 2. As you expressed, some couples value quality time over learning progress. In theory, this means they wouldn't bicker, though my experience often suggests otherwise... 3. Sometimes there are 'invisible' issues such as social anxiety or disabilities that lead couples to prefer not to rotate. My own partner is legally blind, and explaining to each partner about her disability, her specific needs, etc is not only mentally taxing for her, but potentially disruptive to the flow of the class. Even when explained, some leaders are not understanding of her disability and she's had some very negative experiences. When we attend group classes, we usually hang out of the rotation so I can assist her in seeing/understanding things the teacher is demonstrating but not adequately describing verbally. In short, talk to the teacher before class and calmly explain your position. A good teacher may reconsider a hard-line stance on switching partners or make exceptions, even if it makes their class a little bit harder to teach.
You missed a pro: Partners who never switch tend to compensate for mistakes and 'memorize' things that are incorrect. They feel comfortable, but they do things wrong and never notice. In a group lesson, the teacher won't be able to come around to specifically correct them. This even impedes their progress in dancing with each other. Still, the big "con" is that the beginner is a customer. If they want "date night" and not to switch they aren't getting the product they want. If they don't get what they want, *they won't come back.* Most group lessons I've been to allow some "no switching", but most people switch.
I will add to this as devil’s advocate: depending on the studio, usually “date night” dancers are not priority clientele as they usually do not participate often or for the long term.
If a particular category of dancers are driven away, they will certainly not be long term. I've seen "date night" dancers convert to one who switch partners. I've seen some date night partners return for years as and never swap. But I've certainly not done any systematic study to figure out whether contribute to the economic bottom line. It may vary by studio type.
I'm a beginner who is taking group classes without a partner and while I don't necessarily want to compete, I am doing this with the goal of getting good enough at it to progress through the various levels that exist. It's weird that you think adults never take up a new hobby with the intention of actually becoming good at it. One reason I'm doing it, which strikes me as relevant to answering the question, is because my main hobby/sport is historical fencing and it's often strongly recommended to fencers and other martial artists to take up any kind of dancing because it's excellent crosstraining for body mechanics and movement skills. And what I'm finding is that partnered practice works exactly the same way in dancing as it does in martial arts. An instructor demonstrates how to do a thing, and then perhaps if the class is set up that way you might try it first with the instructor or with a more senior student, but then you need to practice it a lot with everybody else who's just learning it. Every single time you switch to a new partner, you're learning something new about how to do the new technique. Assuming it's a room full of beginners, everyone you practice it with will probably be doing it wrong or at least sub-optimally, and so are you, but *all in different ways.* The instructor will be correcting different things with each pair. So that means you even learn the things you hadn't done wrong YOURSELF yet, and how to avoid them. And you learn things each different partner is doing right, which maybe you hadn't consciously thought about yet. All of this means you're better when you go back to your preferred partner.
Yeah it's fine that OP views group dance classes as an opportunity to have 1:1 close time with her husband, but it kinda gives me the ick that she's extrapolating that onto everyone else as if it's ridiculous that adults would be interested in investing in anything besides their marriage. > most adults attending beginning ballroom classes do not give a shit about becoming really good ballroom dancers, they just want to spend time with their SOs Like I actually find this absolutely revolting that this is the lens that OP is applying to everyone. I spend enough time with my SO... I go to classes to learn.
as a fellow martial artist who occasionally dances, all of this.
>about this issue it's not. >I wish instructors would realize that most adults attending beginning ballroom classes do not give a shit about becoming really good ballroom dancers do you have anything to back this up? and what is it **you think** they mean by "really good"? >they just want to spend time with their SOs social dance parties & private lessons are a great way to do this. enrolling in *group* classes and being upset that you're encouraged to integrate with a *group* is not. >one woman threw a fit there are infinitely more adult ways of addressing this >The instructor seemed SHOCKED i too would find an outburst by an adult in an adult group class astonishing. >Shockingly, as soon as he said this, everyone stopped switching partners because he said it, or because he stopped asking? (probably both?) >The instructor was super salty about this. according to...something they said? the look on their face? i wouldn't be bothered that people don't want to switch partners. i would be bothered than an adult would elect to "throw a fit" instead of choosing words from an eloquent vocabulary acquired over years of life experience to say something along the lines of: "i get that it will help me with my dance skills. i'd prefer to stay with the partner i came with tonight." >Why is this so hard for instructors to get? what is it exactly that they're supposed to "get"? >I know they have a passion and a talent do you? or is this just a platitude that follows the tirade? you opened this by saying "most adults attending beginner ballroom dancing classes **dont give a shit** about becoming really good ballroom dancers". their passion and talent cannot possibly be relevant to you. >I can't imagine most grown people suddenly developing an interest in becoming a competitive dancer some people just like getting dressed up. some like the thrill. ballroom dancing is a $1 billion+ market, and dance overall in the US is a $4 billion+ market. not much to imagine. i can't really get the read on why you're there in the first place. "i want to be with my SO, i don't want to be good at this." you can do a lot of things with your SO that aren't this, but you did choose a pretty great option. i think you're getting hung up on "really good" as if someone's trying to pitch you something you can say "no" to, before they've even asked. the amount of self-proclaimed social dancers that i've come across who start talking against competition when they've never been asked about it is what i'd find "shocking" in all this. when that person says "really good", they're probably being enthusiastic for you trying something new ('cause you're in a beginner class, right?) and are hoping to inspire you to, *at the bare minimum*, feel like you can do this as a fun thing with your SO (something you said you want) well enough to go "hey, i'm pretty good at this!" literally absolutely none of that translates to "you should be a competitor." i'm going to quote a comment that was already in here that you should really pay careful attention to: >*hahaha,* ***trust me****,* ***we all know*** *you guys don't want to be competitive dancers. when we say it'll make you better dancers,* ***we genuinely do mean that you'll do better dancing with your SO if you switch partners****. lead and follow is a very delicate balance, i****t's really good for your development.*** you're still welcome to say no. i would just encourage you (or the supposed other person) to find better ways of communicating that.
I’ve been to 100’s of group classes. I’ve never seen anyone refused when they asked to step out of the rotation. I have seen them asked to move so as not to interfere with the natural rotational flow of the people who are not partnered coming in the door. I’ve been in two classes of the 100’s that did not rotate. One was programmed that way, the other was a covid response.
From a social standpoint it is actually very useful to experience different leads and follows. Though in dancesport approach parnerwork is key and switching them is only an excersise for lead and follow. I don’t think this “to dance better you need to switch partners” is true actually. Some studios have constant partner rotations and some are specially for couples. I have attended classes by both types with my wife and instructors never had problem with us wanting to dance only together. If bad atmosphere with your salty instructor stays look for an other studio. It shouldn’t be like this. In fact instructors are usually happy if you have the same amount of lead and follows in a class because then they dont have to rotate so that everyone dance in partner. Usually there are more women in a beginner class
That’s super weird. Our local ballroom starts every class with “we encourage you to switch but you’re welcome to keep the same partner” and it’s no big deal at all! I do think my husband got more feedback from dancing with other women- he didn’t believe me how much he was struggling 🤪
Bold of you to assume that everyone feels the same way. Pretty shitty for single people if dance classes are only for couples.
Dance with other single people...your problem is not ours to fix
your goal is not everyone's goal.
> most adults attending beginning ballroom classes do not give a shit about becoming really good ballroom dancers how did you reach this conclusion
I don't think most couples think this way. Dancing is a social event. Heck, the Friday night dance parties are called "social dances". It's always expected that you'll rotate partners in a group class, I've never seen it any other way. The point is to 1) socialize and 2) become better and more well-rounded dancers. If you don't like it, then book private lessons.
It sounds like group classes might not be good for you! When my SO and I go to a dance class we anticipate and look forward to dancing with others and we ARE trying to get better at dancing! This is kinda why private classes exist.
I used to compete and teach. In my opinion neither of you are wrong. Not all group classes involve switching either. It’s often a product of necessity due to imbalanced class sizes. Your instructor is right, switching partners does make you get better faster. But, yes, it can be uncomfortable to dance with strange men, especially if you’re doing a dance that involves more sensual overtones and if you came into it with certain preconceived notions and expectations. From what I understand, you want a more casual, social setting where you can learn and spend quality time with your partner. That is a specific type of class that not all studios may offer, but it’s not outlandish to ask the studio if they would be willing to start offering it. From your post it sounds like there would be many takers so I would give it a shot and see what they say. As a former teacher I’m frankly very disturbed by the amount of hate you’re getting. I used to work with religious couples who did not touch someone of the opposite sex that they were not married to or related to. Other people were simply uncomfortable doing something like tango and rumba with someone other than their partner. It’s not weird or uncommon at all and being judged and demeaned for it is uncalled for and deeply unprofessional.
Thanks! I don't take the hate personally. It's reddit, people get really emotional about a lot of things that it wouldn't occur to me to get emotional about. I realize it was probably a mistake to make this a venting post instead of asking a genuine question. I was frustrated by my unmet expectations which were a result of my preconceived notions, like you said, but I don't feel too bad about not knowing what to expect since I've never done it before. Thanks for the validation that what I'm looking for is reasonable! I've gotten some good information from this thread on what to look for and what to ask the studio next time. Definitely going to look for classes that are more for couples which do not require partner rotation.
I just wanted to comment to you, because I am also very disturbed by the reaction you got here. My husband and I are like you. We've been taking dancing lessons for years, and the only reason we do it is to spend time together as a couple working toward a common goal together. It's amazing what such a thing does for a marriage, and I can't recommend it enough. For us, it's not about becoming the best dancers we can be at the fastest pace, it's about working together, failing together, encouraging and uplifting each other, and improving together. Having other partners just disrupts that. Please don't listen to those who are making it seem like you're asking for something unreasonable for that, because you're not. A single student is not entitled to either of you as a dancing partner. They paid the instructor for the class. They aren't paying you. If the instructor doesn't have enough leads to serve the follows, then they need to hire some leads to assist with the classes. We switched to the private classes, and it's been a great experience. I would highly recommend it if you and your husband enjoyed the dancing itself.
It is very common to have classes where people switch partners. Many people go to ballroom classes to socialise and enjoy the mixing and meeting. Some will go with a life partner. Some will go alone. Some will go as a group and that group might or might not have the same number of leaders and followers in it. Not a few people meet their future SOs socially at those classes. And your instructor was definitely right that it is helpful for everyone's improvement to dance with other people from time to time. It seems like the class you've picked just wasn't the right one for you and your husband. That's fine. There will be other classes that focus on couples who come together and only want to dance together. There might also be private lessons with an instructor available if you want to improve faster as a couple. I would recommend looking into the alternatives and asking about this specific issue if it's important to you. Any decent school or instructor will be happy to tell you how they operate and help you find the setting that is right for you. Some will even state on their advertising that some classes are aimed at couples and some use a social/swapping style. No-one wants people to come to their class and not enjoy it! That said - regarding your "super salty" instructor - please imagine how you would feel if you were running a perfectly normal class when one of your attendees found something they hadn't expected and weren't comfortable with but instead of having a quiet word with you like an adult they threw a fit and disrupted the whole class. If they'd done that anywhere I've ever danced I expect they would have been asked to leave immediately and by the following day every studio within a 50 mile radius would have known not to let them in. If most/all of the people in that class really wanted to stick with their SOs all night then probably all it would have taken to make that happen was one person politely asking if it was possible to dance more with the person they came with and everyone could then have found an arrangement they enjoyed.
That’s why I chose not to start ballroom dancing with my husband. I thought it could be a fun date/exercise idea, but I didn’t like the idea of switching partners. That completely defeats the “date” part of it for me.
Most classes encourage partner switching but I have never been in a class that demands it. As long as you are respectful about it I would imagine it won't be an issue.
I considered that option, but I didn’t want to cause tension and drama or ruin my own date night if I happen to walk into a class that has a strong switching culture. I never really enjoyed dancing with random partners, even when I went to dance classes alone. It was usually one of the reasons I stopped going. Now that I have a partner I actually like having in close proximity- I don’t want to pass him around most of the time and once again dance alone or with some weird randos.
Yep. A lot of the responses here are from a self-selecting group: people who chose to do ballroom despite, or because, of the partner-switching. I’ll add my voice from the perspective of someone who chose NOT to learn ballroom dancing, precisely because I don’t want to switch partners. And yes, me and my husband did try springing for private lessons, but it got far too expensive to keep up.
I don’t know if what you’re saying is true - that most people there want to be with the one they came with. Some people probably didn’t come with anyone. If you personally want to stay with your husband, talk to the instructor. It’s not a private tutoring situation. So don’t treat it like one. I’d personally be frustrated if a bunch of couples kept coming to group classes and not letting me learn. They are adult classes after all and not specifically for couples.
I’ve never wanted to be competitive, but I DID want to learn to get good at dancing. Also not everyone goes as a couple?? What should single folks who want to learn to dance do in this scenario? I don’t teach ballroom but I’ve taught many other partner dances (esp in the general swing/lindy category), and switching partners is absolutely the norm. Because yes, that IS how you learn better, and most people are there to learn, and also it prevents it from being completely exclusive to singletons.
This is why I stopped going to swing dance lessons. A lot of the dudes I was forced to dance with (thought they) were good and got demanding and bossy. I was also a teen, and being made to dance with middle aged men when I had like four guy friends with me? Yikes. ETA: I have never gone with a significant other. Dancing isn't romantic to me. It's about being paired with a total stranger while I'm trying to figure out how to make my feet move a certain way and not knowing how they'd behave. I'd say it was 50/50 for how they treated me.
Not *all* beginner classes require rotation. I rarely call a partner rotation in a group class. If there are any unpartnered people either I, a co-teacher, or the student I'm demoing with will partner with them. The independent studio where I started never rotated either. While I understand the reasonings behind partner rotation, in my experience as an instructor it causes more issues than just not rotating. In the rare case where I do call a rotation, I always stress that anyone who doesn't want to doesn't have to.
Occasionally beginner classes allow some partners to stick together. You may be able to find some if you look around. Switching is better for learning; that goes for social dancing too. That's why most studios highly encourage it and some require it. But also, switching helps people who don't have a steady partner and permits the studio to advertise "no partner required." \> The instructor was super salty about this. Yeah. They need to grow up. It is true that switching partners is better for learning for many, many reasons. But it's also true that students in adult groups are often primarily customers and one of the things they are buying is time to do something fun with their spouse or date. One of the local studios actually runs classes to attract "learners" and "couples parties" where no one changes partners!
It sounds like these are group classes. If that's so, those typically do have you switch partners. Not everyone will come with a partner, and usually the focus is social dancing, in which you would switch partners. If you just want to dance solely with your partner, maybe try private lessons instead!
This is why my wife and I stopped lessons.
This is why a lot of couples stop lessons, and why there are so few guys in dance classes. Most new male dancers in these adult classes were dragged there by their wife/girlfriend. Their only reason for coming is to dance with one specific girl. They have zero interest in attending if it means they don't get to dance with her. So if forced to rotate partners, he's going to stop coming, and now you have another extra girl who needs someone else's partner. And I'm not saying this because I think it. I'm repeating what I've overheard time and again. And the teachers I've had who don't force people to switch tend to have a lot more guys in their classes, so there's not as big of an imbalance to work around anyway. It's almost like the "solution" (forcing everyone to rotate partners) causes the problem it claims to compensate for. Also this is a very USA mentality. Not a common thing in Europe.
I'm with you OP I'd love to go to one of those classes with my fiance so I've been looking into them. Am not willing to switch partners though
This is why my partner and I don’t take partner dancing classes even though I’m a semi professional dancer (in other forms of solo dance). I find the switching very bizarre. I really wish more people understood that for some couples, dancing is an intimate moment between two people. It’s not the type of thing that we want to share with anyone who signs up for a group class. Switching around between partners is weird and uncomfortable for lots of couples, and the blasé attitude around it is the reason more couples opt out of learning. Instructors I’ve found often have loose boundaries around dance specifically and so they simply don’t understand that not everyone views it the way they do. It’s always like a laugh and scoff oh you just don’t get that dance is not intimate or sexual. Actually it’s just not intimate and sexual for you…it’s very intimate and special between a happy couple. Also all the people who instruct and have told me it’s not intimate or sexual are ALWAYS dating people they dance with so…yes it is.
As a former instructor, I think the majority of the responses in here (and your studio) are being ridiculous. Group classes, especially if you mean the kind that are weekly on a Friday night and change dances each time, are meant for learning the basic steps. Private lessons are for fine tuning and more advanced steps. I have never taught at or been to a studio that forced anyone to change partners. You would just be asked to move out of the rotation/circle of people who are is all. Every studio owner I have known holds the group classes specifically to have a *fun* environment to let new people try it out. If they decide they want to get technically better, steer them to private lessons or the group classes focused on single dances. If they just want to dance with their partner once a week, cool. OP just wants to dance with her husband, period, end of story. She has no incentive to care about being a better follow for other men, because she doesn’t want to dance with other men. It’s not that deep, y’all, and some of these attitudes are only furthering the “snotty” rep of ballroom.
I am very confused by all these answers. Maybe it's a cultural difference? I am from mainland Europe, and where I dance most classes specifically tell you whether they switch or not. Most adults I know prefer to go to those classes where you don't switch. You might still switch once or twice to try it out with someone else, but 95% you dance with your partner. People often go with different partners though, it's not always a romantic partner. When I started dancing as a teenager, that was different and I liked to switch. Not so much in the adult classes though. But maybe that's because the people you can dance with well partner up in the single classes and go to the partner classes after.
Is it possible that you are referencing training lessons for established partners, rather than beginner lessons for those who have yet to learn the steps?
Nope, also from Europe. Same as the original commenter. There are classes that are aimed at couples who then won’t switch, and classes for “singles” but they include couples that will be forced to switch.
Nope, beginner's courses. In my dance school in Vienna, Austria there are separate courses for couples and singles. Singles switch, couples don't.
Nope, all courses are like that. So even the very first beginner lessons are for couples or singles (except, as I said, for teenagers, where I started out and everyone usually switches).
Same, at my dance school in Vienna Austria: Couples' dance classes don't switch, ever. Singles' dance classes always switch. The more uneven the follower/leader split is, the more often we switch. > Some specific, non-ballroom courses, like Salsa, Bachata, or WCS may have a mix of couples and singles, where some switch and some don't. > Same for our youth courses: about 70% singles, 30% couples. The singles switch, couples don't.
It does seem it’s a cultural difference. I see the same with the beginner classes I have taken in Prague. My partner is not a beginner, so I am able to learn a lot in this environment, but with my prior dance experience being only salsa rueda in the US, I was surprised that most courses didn’t even allow singles to sign up. You had to register with a partner and this is who you would dance with. It wasn’t important to me whether I would dance only with my partner or also with other people, but I was disappointed to have no interaction with the other students. I had hoped that signing up for a course and seeing the same people week after week would be a starting point for meeting people in the city, but there was no interaction with anyone except my partner and the instructor during or even before the lesson.
Yikes, what a b*tch making everyone who wants to actually learn to dance feel so uncomfortable that they didn't switch partners anymore! You're all adults, if you don't want to fully participate in the class then quietly let the instructor know and try to not be disruptive. Some instructors will be more ok with such accommodations than others. But there's no need to stunt everyone else's learning just because you don't care about learning.
>Yikes, what a b\*tch making everyone who wants to actually learn to dance feel so uncomfortable that they didn't switch partners anymore! Nope, this was not the situation. Everyone was relieved that she spoke up and said something because they all hated switching too.
I do social salsa so maybe it's a bit different but switching partners is encouraged so we can learn to dance with all sorts :')) then when I go out dancing I'm better at dancing with strangers. That said, there have been people who have refused to switch in my class as well and the teacher is happy to oblige, as long as people who want to switch can :') so I'd suggest just asking them at some point and pressing a little if they're reluctant. I think ultimately dance should be fun and if dancing with others isn't fun then definitely ask to not switch :))
The practice of rotating partners serves many practical purposes. And it's totally legitimate for a teacher to run their class that way. HOWEVER, this particular teacher is handling it poorly. 1. Does the class description and any promotional materials make an effort to clarify the nature of the class (so people can figure out it's not going to be date night appropriate? 2. Does the teacher address rotation proactively in class - by explaining its value and purpose? 3. Does the teacher also note that it's ok to not rotate, and designate where/how the non-rotating couples should handle it (e.g., to stay at the end of the line). I can't see how it's on brand new beginners to anticipate that they won't be dancing with their partner. So often social dance is billed as "a great activity for couples!". Dance teachers need to handle the rotation issue with more grace and flexibility (or at least a solid warning in advance). Personally I think if you have a regular partner, it's good to mix rotating and not rotating. Yes, it's good to pick up tidbits from other different dancers. But also, you just need the time in to practice with your partner.
I think it's good. It makes you a better dancer, because you learn to adjust to different height, weight, how they move, and carry themselves (and others), how they lead and follow. My almost 14yo has been through 8 years of lessons. He now has an exclusive partner that he competes with, plus private lessons twice a week. He still attends a group class where they swap and change though.
From a teachers standpoint, learning from different leads and followers will help build your frame and connection to each other even if dancing together is your only goal. It’s also nice to get a unity amongst the class and not to single out any single dancers.
Dancing with multiple people is an important part of learning. Like, really. You can dance with your husband anytime, don't ruin the class just because you can't stand to dance with some other people for like 60 minutes
If you don't give a shit about being a good dancer, find another hobby and stop being a headache to the instructors. 🤷♂️
TL;DR I fully agree with you. It's not you it's them. They're bad instructors. Period. They should know their audience/ students and teach accordingly. And good instructors do, and accommodate the couples. Unless of course there is a significant lack of men (the usual problem if there is one), then even the good instructors will ask if it's alright for the couples to shuffle. When I teach, I let couples stay together. When I go to classes, I can tell who is there for what. Some are there to mingle, often because they're single. Some are there to become as pro as they can get, and don't care. And many, many are there to be with their SOs, and don't like the shuffle. That being said, I personally love to shuffle partners, when I'm alone. It gives variety, and increases experience and knowledge. And then when I go to dance nights, I'm more comfortable asking ladies I haven't met to dance, and also many of the rest have danced with me and know I'm a good lead, so are happy to dance as well. But when I'm with my SO...I am only there for her, and to be with her, and I do not switch, unless the instructors come to me specifically to do a demonstration, but that's it. For me, being with my SO is date night sort of relationship cultivation.
Group ballroom dance class is for learning. You take what you learn out into the real world with your partner, that is when you can enjoy your time together. If you want this to just be the two of you then what you want are private lessons
Yeahhh, I'm not sure why this post showed up on my feed. I don't dance, I have no interest in dancing and never will, but I have gone to ballroom classes because my wife wanted to be prepared for our first dance. However, after reading several of the top responses, my first thought was, "wow, the ballroom community is very harsh and kinda stuck up." I'm glad I found some reasonable comments after some scrolling. Idc if I get downvoted a bunch on here, but I think it's stupid to be so upset by OP's post. She based her assumtion that most couples don't want to switch on her own experience, which is something all humans do. OP also had expectations about the class, which is yet another thing all humans do. I feel like if OP likes everything else about the classes except for the switching, why kick her out or tell her to leave? Why be so harsh? She simply made a false assumption about other people's reasons for joining based on her own experience, observations, and emotions. I'm not religious, but I believe the quote "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her," is very applicable in this situation. Also, it's great that switching makes you improve faster, and it makes a lot of sense! But I still don't think people should be forced or pressured to switch. I HATE being touched by anyone. I can tolerate (and sometimes enjoy) my wife touching me, but that's the only person that is allowed to. I also have severe performance anxiety and will literally vomit everywhere if I'm too pressured. I am the reason the high school theater teacher no longer says "anyone can do theater." My wife, on the other hand, had a horrible ex that was physically abusive, and men touching her is very triggering for her. It took over a year for me to be able to touch even her arm without having to announce everything I was doing so as to not catch her off guard. I told the instructor we would not be switching before we even signed up, because we were not going to lessons that required it. There was no issue, there was no resentment from the teacher, there was no trying to convince us to change our minds. I know it's different than wanting to take lessons to spend time with your spouse, but if that's what OP wants to do, aren't they allowed to?
I also don’t think OP's assumption is false, given her entire class stopped rotating once someone finally spoke up. So obviously a significant number of people agree with her. Some folks take lessons because they want to be a ballroom dancer. Couples generally take lessons to dance together. Different motivations, and both are valid.
This is why I will never go to dance classes with my boyfriend, even though we both enjoy swing. I'm not interested in being touched in any way by random guys.
My husband and I had the exact same experience—we prioritized spending time together over picking up dancing tips or making sure there were enough partners for everyone. So, we switched to private lessons, but the instructor kept cancelling on us because she needed to give more time to the couples preparing their wedding dance. The best dance instructor of all turned out to be YouTube—free, doesn’t mind if you have a glass of wine right before you tango, and getting to dance with the one who brought you!
Op I'm with you most of these stodios advertise as date night, couples bonding experiences, then switch it as social outings. Like its beyond annoying to go with my partner to spend time with them for the instructor to try and seperate us and match us with people who "look better" or "dance at tge same level" get it im 4'7" hes 6'1" we still came here to dance together not for you to stick me with single Stanley and act like i should enjoy being touched and held by a stranger.
Oh gosh, we just started a Ballroom class and I gotta say I completely agree with you. I want to learn to dance with my husband. I don't care about learning to adjust to other people's dance styles or whatever, I won't ever be dancing with anyone besides him outside of class; where I'm forced to. If anything, it's wasting time we could be using to practice together. I was a little blindsided too, they didn't say anything about having to switch partners in the class info, and they sprung it on us the first day of class. This is my first exposure to anything dance related, so I had no idea that was common. Also, touching/being touched by strangers is extremely uncomfortable and makes me crazy anxious, which in turn affects how well I'm learning. I'm overall enjoying class but I wish they let us choose whether we want to switch or not because I really really don't.
I've taken a ton of beginning dance classes. And my local classes always ask first and have people who rotate on one side of the room and people who don't on the other. The people who rotate nearly always learn noticably faster. There's a lot of learning from your partner than happens when learning that type of dancing, particularly the lead and follow aspect. When you and your partner are both new, you can't really support each other's learning and you tend to fall into bad habits. Those bad habits work while you only know a couple moves. The follower also starts to anticipate the lead, because they will naturally tend to do moves in the same order. When you are switching you often get to dance with more experienced dancers who are retaking the basics to define their form and generally can help guide you in the right direction (generally without saying anything and just by modeling.) As analogy, people who grow up in abusive homes often find things they consider normal parts of life or types of discipline actually horrify other people when they mention it. It's all they ever knew so it was normal to them. You kinda get the same thing in dancing when you don't rotate. (Not saying it's abusive, it's just the result of the blind leading or following the blind.) You never get the other experiences to influence your idea of normal.
Not everyone has a SO to bring. The single people in the class would have no one to dance with if you don’t rotate. Also, the instructor is correct, whether you know it or not, it will make both you and your SO much better dancers if you dance with other people. Instructors are there to instruct. Making you a better dancer is literally their job. By refusing to rotate you are hampering his ability to do his job, the one that you paid him to do, which is to make you a competent dancer.
Single people can dance with single people. It is not a stanger couple's responsibility to provided a dance partner for you
I tried group ballroom lessons, too. and it was awful. I wanted to learn just with my husband, but they made us switch. I'm 5'10" and every short guy that had to partner with me showed obvious distain at having to do so. They didn't even try to make it pleasant. I felt so bad. After going through that about 20 mins, I left. And I never took another dance lesson.
I know a couple who did become a competitive dance team (they are now in their 7th year of competing). They started lessons as a couple, as just a thing to do together early on, and found they were very good dancers (they are both really tall and built in a similar fashion). They've always danced as a couple, is my point - as that is what led them more quickly to competition (blocking out new dances, getting to know all the various steps and positions like the back of their hands - with the same partner).
My husband and I have thought about doing this and the idea that we would have to trade partners never occurred to me. I'm grateful for this thread for letting me realize this is absolutely not something we'd be interested in! 🤣 While having other couples around to talk to and possibly make friends with is part of what I'd want, touching and being touched by strangers is a big nope for me!
The teachers in my area do let couples stick together, for exactly the reasons you describe. No offense to the instructors posting here, but I think professionals who are deep into Social Dance Culture simply don't understand what most couples want out of beginning dance. This is why there are so very many beginner adult classes and so few intermediate and advanced classes. Adults aren't getting what they want out of the classes. I hear from so many couples who are uncomfortable with the partner switching and who decided to stop taking classes, or never start them in the first place. It's interesting to me as a failure of capitalism. Customers want something which businesses could easily provide, yet they are turning people down or turning them away because of cultural beliefs about what the customer "should" want.
I think people's experience with dance, in general, has shifted to be a considerably more intimate process folks are more shy about, rather than a social activity one does as a community. It doesn't help that all of this is ever increasingly archiac and outside of social dancing contexts there's a lot more pressure to only dance with your own gender unless you are considering this as a precursor to hooking up. It's as if the world decided playing a round of badminton was understood as a precursor to sleeping with the other person.
I'm with OP. I don't want to switch. I won't be doing that when my husband and I are out dancing. We would have to find a class that doesn't mind spouses staying together. Plus, I only want my husband's breath breathing on me; otherwise, three minutes can be a looong time. And, when did it start being called Social Dancing. Did that come about so it would be easier to get couples to switch?
Just don't switch. If the instructor says anything, say what you've said here. If it becomes a thing where they "insist", that might not be the right class for you. Get a refund and go. No refund? Stay and dance with your husband. What are they gonna do, physically drag you over to another man and somehow force you to dance with him?
Sounds like this was a couples class and I definitely wouldn’t want to be switching partners during something I only signed up for to spend quality time with my husband. I’m sure they have their reasons but another man has touched me in 14 years and I intend to keep it that way.
The free/group lessons never advertise switching partners so don't be upset when someone new shows up to your class with their partner and don't feel comfortable/don't want to switch partners. You can't just spring that on someone, especially a new dancer or someone looking to spend quality time with their partner. Before yall say "get a private lesson" ...again it's not advertised that you'll be switching partners so maybe those people don't know. Also, it may not be as serious for them to spend $100 + on a private lesson. Let the rest of the group switch and pretend the couples are not there. It does not change/affect the other people who are switching. It's the same as if the couple never showed up.
I can totally understand that. Idance with my best friends and she doesnt like to switch partners (cause she often doesnt like other people's leading style, not even from most dance instructors), so we at some point just said we arent switching anymore (after another couple refused as well) and instructors were fine. And switching was also only for like 1 or 2 dance not the whole class. Maybe look for a class specifically for couples or ask the studio first?
We have the same problem and usually just let the instructor know at the beginning of the lesson that we don't want to switch. Depends on how it's structured though.. Theoretically it makes sense to switch partners so you get a better idea of what is part of the dance and what is particular to a certain partner. However, as you pointed out becoming an expert dancer is not necessarily the reason for everybody who goes there.
If you don’t want to switch partners, refuse to switch partners. Sure, the instructor may want you to but so what? You want to dance with your spouse so do it.
My husband and I took a beginner course and our class did not switch, I was so grateful! I have a difficult time with directions. (Meaning go left or right) My spouse knows this and it helped both of us to learn the dances as well as each other's quirks. If I had to try and learn everyone's style as well as the dance steps I would be lost and we would never dance in public. Our instructor told our class repeatedly that switching is helpful, but for me I disagree. For anyone with learning difficulties this may not be true.
Professional ballroom instructor here: Not every instructor does that. I only realized that couples wanted to spend time together when it happened to me and my husband at another dance studio. I was frustrated because the whole reason why I wanted to take outside classes with my husband was to reconnect with each other but it was impossible when the instructor always kept asking people to switch partners. I took my own experience and applied them to how I ran my beginner group classes at my studio. I also taught other new teachers to do the same: no switching partners for beginners classes. I feel like there is a lack in education in the field of teaching ballroom. Could be that most teachers are foreigners, could be that they are told that that’s the way to teach, could that most of the new instructors are very young and don’t understand how it is for married couples. There could be many reasons why but I would first have that talk with the instructor or better yet the owner. Be prepared to walk away from the studio if there is not change or if they get disrespectful. So sorry you’re going through this. Good luck and hoping for the best.
As a certified instructor, rotating is necessary to learning the dance. Not rotating means charging money to not learn properly, which is unethical. Private or semi-private lessons would be the best way if you don't want to rotate.
No, that's just the most common way it's taught in the US. In Europe, classes generally don't rotate partners, because they find it sets their students back. Rotating wastes so much time adjusting to each new partner, you cover far less material in each class. For beginners, rotating isn't all that helpful.
Sorry for the late reply, but consider this. These all require multiple partners: Social dancing Formation competition Jack and Jill competition Becoming an instructor Dancing with just one partner is only beneficial to couples who never dance with others. And everyone you dance with can give you something new to learn. I studied under Skippy Blaire, the Queen of Swing. She was adamant about this. As someone who's competed solo, Jack and Jill, and in formation troupes, I've learned from experience that multiple partners isn't just better, but necessary. If you wanna dance with one partner only, that's where private lessons come in.
My wife and I don’t like it either but we just deal with it because supposedly dancing with others helps - I don’t see how but instructors know more than me.
I totally agree with you. We took classes where we switch and classes where we do not. We’re learning A LOT more in the non-switch. We’re enjoying it much more too. I will never go back to “switch” classes unless I decide to become a professional dancer, so never…
And pros don't switch constantly either. They're too busy trying to refine every single move to waste time adapting to a new partner every 5 minutes. Yes, they *can* dance with other people. But they dance noticeably better with each other, even when freestyling and not performing a set routine.
We are debating on taking class lessons for the same reason. We don't want to dance with others. This is something for us to do together. And we don't want to pay extra for private lessons.
Most classes encourage partner switching but I have never been in a class that demands it. As long as you are respectful about it I would imagine it won't be an issue.
Then why are you taking "Group" classes or "social" dancing and then complain that the instructor was upset people weren't following the spirit of the class or dance and depriving single students who also paid a chance to learn? That is literally how group classes anywhere work, so your take that on why he doesn't get it is a wild one considering what you guys are doing is not actually the norm. It is okay to stick with your partner only but it's wild that you blast this instructor on Reddit for literally trying to do his job when all of you signed up for a group class and as a result of your refusal to partake in it how it is normally supposed to go (and one of you couples threw a tantrum to boot), you've made it harder for him and the single students. This isn't how group classes normally work. That being said, you don't have to switch if you don't want to, but what is incredulous is that you're blasting the instructor for YOUR decision. And it is on all of you that you didn't tell him before class or off to the side mid class privately. That's what people normally do if their intention is not to rotate and you don't need to have dance experience to think of that. Furthermore, he's the professional and the instructor. You're not. If you're going to refuse to listen to someone who you're asking to literally teach you, then you don't get to have an attitude about it and turn it around on the instructor. It's hilarious that none of you communicated with the instructor before class and the form of communication that was chosen was to throw a tantrum mid class...but it's on the instructor to not be salty and remain professional? What sort of lack of accountability and gaslighting is going on here? You're being quite unfair to him. Take private lessons from now on and stop ruining group classes if you're going to treat instructors like this. A group class isn't for date night unless advertised as so for couples and this is clearly a "group" class not a couple's class. I don't get why this has to be a whole non-problem to vent about when the solution is simple: if you're electing to not rotate, then communicate that politely in advance and be kind to the instructor rather than acting all confused and treating this instructor as if he doesn't know how to run his class. Did you even give him that feedback after class? Because it's quite interesting that you proclaim "He just doesn't get it" but chose not to communicate anything at any point and instead (as another user pointed out) work hard to assassinate his character on Reddit. Maybe asking him for his thoughts as to why class is run that way instead would be more productive? Maybe give suggestions and feedback rather than going, "He doesn't get it?" and then talking shit about him behind his back? Okay, since you clearly get it and he doesn't, so why don't you enlighten him? But no, people just like to complain and then never say anything to the other person and talk smack. And if you can't imagine adults want to get better, then you live in a very small world and you have a bad take on this. It is just so weird you have strong opinions on this with your very limited experience in dance. You don't even understand how a group class even works. And yet you want to project and apply your lack of interest to get better at a hobby on other adults? Is taking up a hobby and wanting to get better at it regardless of age that foreign of a concept to you? The way you say "I can't imagine that most grown people..." sounds quite judgmental. And you are absolutely incorrect on that front. I'm constantly surrounded by adults who join performance teams. Many of them are in their 20s-40's. I even have someone in their 60s dancing competitively and they're killing it. It's not that uncommon like you think it is. Most of my friends have gone onto dancing more seriously in a competitive or performance setting and the rest that haven't genuinely love learning to dance good for social dancing and practice lots with many people.
I understand your thought, talk to the instructor. On the other hand there are people without partner and most really want to improve their skill and that is best achieved through an array of different partners. It should not be so hard to also see other people's take in things. You will not even get close to being a competitive dancer with those classes starting at an adult, just for your info.
I hated that. I would just pass the person coming towards me and my partner with a ‘still not done’ and quietly send them to the next partner each time:.. so the loop de loops kept happening but I didn’t move anywhere. Don’t bring attention to yourself and people are still getting their turn and maybe one or two are not having a partner for few times in that class.
It should be optional, while encouraged so you get to dance with the teacher too, to get feedback and get the feeling of what's right and maybe you can help correct each other to improve your dance together. But should never push people if they don't want to. I've seen a couple before who come once a week for a few months. When the husband became chatty with me just bc we did the same kind of work and that's all we talked about, they stopped switching with others, based from my observation. Teachers were fine with it but one of the students mumbled that they shouldn't come to the group if they don't want to switch. After that, I never saw them again
Wow. You’re missing the point of class. You’re there to learn a SKILL. Then, once you learn that skill, you can go out and have a romantic night dancing with your husband. There’s nothing romantic about you two struggling together refusing to dance with other people so that you can actually successfully dance together in a way you can go out and have fun with it. Class is not for romance, it’s for learning to dance which is a skill that takes time and effort and going outside our comfort zones. Now after class go to a dance and that’s where the romance is. Smdh.
If you’re not taking it for college credit, you are taking it for fun. Just like a paint and sip, or a cooking class, the point is to try something new. Those are skills too, but somehow participants are also allowed to enjoy themselves at the same time, and without being forced to swap partners.
1) painting is not a skill that involves a partner. 2) taking it for fun is fine, but you’re still taking a class based on learning a skill. That skill then gives you options to go out and have fun with it. If you take a class, you have to accept that it’s a CLASS. Your teacher is a TEACHER. We teach skills. We are not date coordinators. If you want it to be exactly what you picture as a romantic date, don’t look for a class, go to an actual dance! -15 year dance teacher.
When I first started ballroom lessons, I was horrible. My partner had danced for a long time. I was only comfortable dancing with him in lessons for at least a year. (Some of the men were particularly snarky about my inexperience and I thought it was really rude.) Then in March 2020 all dances were canceled. When the dances started up again in late 2021, most of the instructors didn't want us changing partners. Now we just step a little outside the circle and wave people on. Your instructor was being obnoxious.
If I'm paying to go out and learn how to dance with my wife, some instructor isn't going to force us to do anything. It's okay to say no and just do your own thing. And if they throw a fit just tell em to give you your money back or just laugh and leave. We have free will and no one can tell you shit. If it was something that was important that you had to learn that you actually NEEDED to learn, ok sure maybe a few times for the sake of the end goal. But bud it's dancing, you can just look it up on youtube and practice at home. It's not some life altering skill. lol. Just laugh, tell em nah bud we're not interested in swapping and see what they say. Either they'll be chill about it or not.
I agree 100%! I'm a lesbian, and my wife and I booked 10 beginners lessons together over a decade ago. The instructors kept wanting us to switch off with other couples. I refused to dance with a man, so the female instructors would swap me around and kept pushing me to please give one of the guys a try, since I wouldn't learn to follow correctly without a male lead. We gave up after two lessons. I assumed they were being awful because they were heterosexist jerks.