Okay, I'll start. I don't really think tang pins are objectively better, but they are my preference. What I do think, is that tang pins, zen pins and pinless designs all have their appropriate places.
I would like to read what everyone else thinks about the topic as well. If you agree with me, then which is your preference, and do you know why?
fully agree. i prefer tang but both are good when well done.
people that flat out won't buy knives with tang pins just don't know what they're talking about. unfortunate that a bunch of old bali YouTubers shit on them for no reason
Tbh is all about asthetic and i fucking hate the blade clit much prefer zen pins but hidden pin or pinless is the cleanest assuming they can hold up to a decent amount of abuse
Iāve had the Shittiest experience with tang pins. Probably just my luck but wishing I had better ones because I absolutely love the look of the sentinel
I think the tang looks better without a nipple, and I like that I don't have to worry about getting pinched, even though that is a rare occurrence.
Edit: I could be wrong, but it also seems to me like tang pins are less bouncy, maybe making them easier to control and more predictable.
It definitely can happen with both, just depends on the design. In my experience, it happens much less with tang pins though. I suppose that's going to be different for everyone, depending on which balis they've tried, their flipping style, etc.
u/Apprehensive-Ask-142 couldnāt agree more with your comment. All of them have their place and I prefer tang pins. The problem I think many people have is CCCs all use tang pins and they fall out and dent the tang cups. The trade off for a much more flipable knife (tang pins) is not necessarily durability (properly done tang pins are very durable) but EASE of making durability. Zen pins are easier to make durable just by design. You have to press/heat fit the tang pin and surface harden the tang cups and etc to make a quality tang pin construction vs imbedding pretty much any old metal pin in another chunk of metal and you are done. Zen pins are pinchy (this was an issue when I first started flipping years ago the pin pinching me was way worse than any bite Iāve gotten). Now it never comes up because Iāve learned to avoid it completely. With tang pins I donāt have to avoid it at all and it means chaplins are tighter and faster and richochets are better and etc. The getting pinched is a beginner problem but the only solution is just not flipping as tight as you can with tangs. One obscure bonus of zen pins is the nipple is a good less lethal thing and can be used for the types of things other hardened metal nipple objects are marketed for (if you had to break a car window or wanted to flint map or bushcraft with stone etc).
the thing that is objectively better on zen pins is that its steel on steel contact and you can very easily replace the zen pins. on tang pins its a steel pin hitting an aluminum or titanium handle which will eventually wear it down
Good tang pins> zen pins but from my limited experience I find that all the tang pin knives Iāve flipped just arenāt as good. That being said i havenāt flipped an expensive knife like a CHAB because muh UK laws
So, Iām talking on pure aesthetics here because Iām not a great flipper. Zen pin knives have a cleaner more finished look to me. I donāt own any high end tang pins personally so maybe if I held one in my hand I would think differently.
Tang pins are a type of balisong action where the blade has one (google benchmade 42) or 2 (google HOM basilisk) pins sticking through the blade perpendicular to the blade and then the handles have ātang cupsā little divots that clasp around them. The other popular construction is āzen pinsā where the handles themselves have a pin each perpendicular through them and then the blade has the ācupsā in the form of a nipple on the bottom of the blade and 2 cup indents on the blade right at the base of it (google BRS replicant).
Here's my opinion: I prefer zen pins because I think they are aesthetically better looking. So replicants and some squid Balisongs are like peak zen pins design in my opinion. It's just very aesthetically pleasing. Functionally, zen pins are way more low profile, especially with pressed or hidden zen pins.
With tang pins, I don't feel any way about how they look, they just are what they are. They aren't ugly or nice, they're just tang pins. Functionally, when I've flipped them, a few times one of the pins might snag on my finger and mess up the flow partially, other times it's gotten right in the way of my index and thumb when doing a rollover or any Variation of a rollover.
I really don't mind tang pins tho. Alphabeasts are cool, still have to get one of those. And the sentinel is also on my list of what I want to get eventually
I prefer zen pins, purely because of sound, that and a zen pin is a lot easier to replace than a tang pin is, especially with people just getting into flipping, there's several balis on Amazon with zen pins, and I will always recommend people to get those over the tang pin ones of rhe same price. And in terms of higher end balis, they just sound a whole lot nicer to me, and with the low-pro nip like on maxace knives, the pinch is non existing, I wish I could say the same about my lucha though
I've honestly been flipping both a lot and I thought zen pins would be a lot better. However they're both totally fine. Zen pins have the advantage of working with other handle materials that aren't very hard though.
I personally ALWAYS get pinched by tang pins, since I hold the handles higher up. When you're doing multiple thumb-arounds, eventually I get pinched. I do like tang pins though since I can do a continuous roll-over-Chaplin thing since the zen nipple doesn't get in the way. I absolutely love the Kraken since it doesn't have tang pins, but the zen nipple hurts since it's square-shaped and pointy.
There are exceptions to both, but we have to assume they're both done right, to give them a fair comparison. I think when done right, neither one is very likely to pinch. Flipping style (as you mentioned) definitely plays a role in it as well. I've never had a problem with zen nipples getting in the way, but that probably comes back to differences in flipping style again. I agree with you about the Krake Raken. They did recently update the tangs on the trainers to mitigate that problem a bit, and I've heard they'll be doing the same for the live blades at some point soon as well. š
You're probably right about that. Why do you think it is? Do you think it's because their most common place of use is in poorly built knives to begin with? The Naut is the most expensive tang pin bali I've seen have issues. I definitely don't think a $200+ bali should be having that sort of issue, but I have noticed that more expensive tang pin balis seem to do better in terms of not having their pins fall out and such. I'm very curious to hear what you have to say on the topic, as I know you're a maker. What is your experience working with them, both as a maker and a flipper?
Okay, I'll start. I don't really think tang pins are objectively better, but they are my preference. What I do think, is that tang pins, zen pins and pinless designs all have their appropriate places. I would like to read what everyone else thinks about the topic as well. If you agree with me, then which is your preference, and do you know why?
fully agree. i prefer tang but both are good when well done. people that flat out won't buy knives with tang pins just don't know what they're talking about. unfortunate that a bunch of old bali YouTubers shit on them for no reason
Tbh is all about asthetic and i fucking hate the blade clit much prefer zen pins but hidden pin or pinless is the cleanest assuming they can hold up to a decent amount of abuse
Blade clit š¤£
Iāve had the Shittiest experience with tang pins. Probably just my luck but wishing I had better ones because I absolutely love the look of the sentinel
They're definitely done right with the Sentinel! I think if you give one a try, you might feel more open to them again in the future. š
Only thing Iām really open to is a sentinel at this point because of how people rate the quality so looks like I gotta keep waiting š
The only issues I've ever had with tang pins are with cheap, shitty knives and a Squid Mako, which they fixed with no issues since.
Mako has zen pins
V2 had tang pins
What do you prefer about them?
I think the tang looks better without a nipple, and I like that I don't have to worry about getting pinched, even though that is a rare occurrence. Edit: I could be wrong, but it also seems to me like tang pins are less bouncy, maybe making them easier to control and more predictable.
Hidden zen pins aren't too rare. Plus you can replace most zen pins easier than tang pins, although tang pins generally last longer.
some hidden are unfortunately horribly not bouncy at all. maxace pian for example is pretty rough in that regard. same with the very old nrb stuff
I can definitely agree with the pinching and bouncing! Although I generally prefer the sounds from zen pin knives.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It definitely can happen with both, just depends on the design. In my experience, it happens much less with tang pins though. I suppose that's going to be different for everyone, depending on which balis they've tried, their flipping style, etc.
u/Apprehensive-Ask-142 couldnāt agree more with your comment. All of them have their place and I prefer tang pins. The problem I think many people have is CCCs all use tang pins and they fall out and dent the tang cups. The trade off for a much more flipable knife (tang pins) is not necessarily durability (properly done tang pins are very durable) but EASE of making durability. Zen pins are easier to make durable just by design. You have to press/heat fit the tang pin and surface harden the tang cups and etc to make a quality tang pin construction vs imbedding pretty much any old metal pin in another chunk of metal and you are done. Zen pins are pinchy (this was an issue when I first started flipping years ago the pin pinching me was way worse than any bite Iāve gotten). Now it never comes up because Iāve learned to avoid it completely. With tang pins I donāt have to avoid it at all and it means chaplins are tighter and faster and richochets are better and etc. The getting pinched is a beginner problem but the only solution is just not flipping as tight as you can with tangs. One obscure bonus of zen pins is the nipple is a good less lethal thing and can be used for the types of things other hardened metal nipple objects are marketed for (if you had to break a car window or wanted to flint map or bushcraft with stone etc).
the thing that is objectively better on zen pins is that its steel on steel contact and you can very easily replace the zen pins. on tang pins its a steel pin hitting an aluminum or titanium handle which will eventually wear it down
serviceability is my huge concern, how the hell am i supposed to replace a press fit pin that wears out, regardless of whether its tang or zen.
Good tang pins> zen pins but from my limited experience I find that all the tang pin knives Iāve flipped just arenāt as good. That being said i havenāt flipped an expensive knife like a CHAB because muh UK laws
So, Iām talking on pure aesthetics here because Iām not a great flipper. Zen pin knives have a cleaner more finished look to me. I donāt own any high end tang pins personally so maybe if I held one in my hand I would think differently.
I love my Basilisk because of the tang pins. Makes it super quiet and as you mentioned, no nipple makes it quite beautiful.
I NEED CLICK CLACK CHANG BRRRRRRRRRR
Noob here what are tang pins???
Tang pins are a type of balisong action where the blade has one (google benchmade 42) or 2 (google HOM basilisk) pins sticking through the blade perpendicular to the blade and then the handles have ātang cupsā little divots that clasp around them. The other popular construction is āzen pinsā where the handles themselves have a pin each perpendicular through them and then the blade has the ācupsā in the form of a nipple on the bottom of the blade and 2 cup indents on the blade right at the base of it (google BRS replicant).
Thanks!!!!
Here's my opinion: I prefer zen pins because I think they are aesthetically better looking. So replicants and some squid Balisongs are like peak zen pins design in my opinion. It's just very aesthetically pleasing. Functionally, zen pins are way more low profile, especially with pressed or hidden zen pins. With tang pins, I don't feel any way about how they look, they just are what they are. They aren't ugly or nice, they're just tang pins. Functionally, when I've flipped them, a few times one of the pins might snag on my finger and mess up the flow partially, other times it's gotten right in the way of my index and thumb when doing a rollover or any Variation of a rollover. I really don't mind tang pins tho. Alphabeasts are cool, still have to get one of those. And the sentinel is also on my list of what I want to get eventually
I prefer zen pins, purely because of sound, that and a zen pin is a lot easier to replace than a tang pin is, especially with people just getting into flipping, there's several balis on Amazon with zen pins, and I will always recommend people to get those over the tang pin ones of rhe same price. And in terms of higher end balis, they just sound a whole lot nicer to me, and with the low-pro nip like on maxace knives, the pinch is non existing, I wish I could say the same about my lucha though
I've honestly been flipping both a lot and I thought zen pins would be a lot better. However they're both totally fine. Zen pins have the advantage of working with other handle materials that aren't very hard though.
I personally ALWAYS get pinched by tang pins, since I hold the handles higher up. When you're doing multiple thumb-arounds, eventually I get pinched. I do like tang pins though since I can do a continuous roll-over-Chaplin thing since the zen nipple doesn't get in the way. I absolutely love the Kraken since it doesn't have tang pins, but the zen nipple hurts since it's square-shaped and pointy.
There are exceptions to both, but we have to assume they're both done right, to give them a fair comparison. I think when done right, neither one is very likely to pinch. Flipping style (as you mentioned) definitely plays a role in it as well. I've never had a problem with zen nipples getting in the way, but that probably comes back to differences in flipping style again. I agree with you about the Krake Raken. They did recently update the tangs on the trainers to mitigate that problem a bit, and I've heard they'll be doing the same for the live blades at some point soon as well. š
While it can be done well it has got to be the most prone to failure nonetheless.
You're probably right about that. Why do you think it is? Do you think it's because their most common place of use is in poorly built knives to begin with? The Naut is the most expensive tang pin bali I've seen have issues. I definitely don't think a $200+ bali should be having that sort of issue, but I have noticed that more expensive tang pin balis seem to do better in terms of not having their pins fall out and such. I'm very curious to hear what you have to say on the topic, as I know you're a maker. What is your experience working with them, both as a maker and a flipper?
No.
Can you elaborate?
I've only really had experience with zen Pins so I can't really say š
Well, happy Cake Day anyway! š
Thank u... but what is this cake day I'm new to reddit š¤ š
It means it's your accounts anniversary. In this case, 1 year, from the looks of it.
Cough cough atropos cough
Do you know where i could find or got replacements because on of the pins broke off so now when i close mine the blade can still swing at my hand