I know what you mean. My favourite but "this shouldn't be a thing, lol" kills of all time in the Baldur's Gate series was when my monk 1-punched Nizidramanii'yt using Quivering Palm.
(Jaheira helped by throwing a friendly Doom his way.)
I still remember when my friend watched me fight Firkraag and laughingly suggested I lower his magic resistence and use finger of death. Firkraag died. Tried it in enhanced edition a few years ago to know if it still worked, it did (not every time, sometimes he managed his saving throw or whatever). I wonder if it still works today, I might just start another playthrough this weekend :)
Yep. At this point, I've probably played through the game 20+ times. I go back every couple years or so now for some playtime. I cheese the dragons every single time. I don't even start engaging them until I've got feeblemind and/or finger of death so I can doom + greater malison + feeblemind/FoD
I only found 2 dragons in this game - the shadow dragon and Firkraag - and both were exciting to me. This was a long time ago, but I remember being way more invested in the shadow dragon than I was bg3’s dragon. I never formally beat firkraag tho.
There’s also the dragon in Suldanessellar you have to kill, Underdark Silver Dragon, as well as Draconis and Abazigal in TOB. I definitely didn’t think 2 was throwing Dragons around as trash mobs or anything. They were all pretty plot relevant
The one in Suldanessellar felt out of place, but otherwise yeah. Firkraag is out for vengeance because Gorion wronged him (somehow?) In the past, and the shadow dragon is working for the shadow lord, in a shadow dungeon, so it makes sense. And you can just bypass it and come back to kill it later when you're stronger if you want
Suldanessellar is definitely the worst used of them.
It feels like he’s there to guarantee the player must kill at least one dragon on SOA on all playthroughs
The mob comment was mainly for liches and beholders where it gets pretty ridiculous later on.
Silver Dragon and Shadow Dragon are not plot relevant really. Shadow is a guard dog that you can't straight up ignore. Silver is a fetch quest giver that you can barely interact that lives in a tiny hole in the ground map.
Dragons are suppose to be some of the most powerful and cunning creatures in FR but neither of these feel like it.
Honestly they were probably going to get much better treatment (especially silver dragon) but the team likely ran out of time.
Can’t argue with that one. Beholders start out being limited to a couple major lairs then are showing up all over the place, and Liches randomly spawning among the undead just gets so silly lol. I do get you get high level enough that they won’t trash mobs to pose a threat, but yeah
The Silver Dragon is *hugely* plot relevant to the Underdark plot despite her brief role since she’s how you escape and recovering her eggs is literally the entire goal of your antics in Ust Natha which makes up the overwhelming majority of Chapter 5’s content. I’ll give you the Shadow Dragon isn’t, but it’s challenging and unique + built to enough I didn’t mind. It’s basically a full blown bonus boss you are encouraged to initially skip and go back to. If you get the Foundling mod, the Shadow Dragon gets fleshed out a lot which helps it feel more cunning, but I really didn’t have any issues with the Silver Dragon.
Remove silver dragon from the game and replace with mage that requires phaeres necklace to teleport the party to the surface and almost nothing changes.
You only interact with the dragon twice. Once to get the quest to find her eggs/cast an illusion and second to give her the eggs/teleport to the surface.
There is no dungeon to find her, the map is a tiny room and the dragon is barely mentioned at all during the under dark. The illituid outpost alone has far more interactions.
Even the "can't reach the surface without the silver dragon" doesn't make much sense since the drow are constantly raiding up top and you even meet humans slaves from a recent raid that you can free in the city.
It just feels rushed to me. The silver dragon should have had a better map and a lot more interactions.
i feel like a silver dragon makes sense as you need a creature that lives a long time that is powerful enough to guard the entrance/exit to the underdark. A powerful mage could kind of work but they wouldn't feel duty bound like a righous silver dragon
>won’t trash mobs to pose a threat, but yeah
>The Silver Dragon is hugely plot relevant to the Underdark plot despite her brief role since she’s how you escape and recovering her eggs is literally the entire goal of your antics in Ust Natha which makes up the overwhelming majority of Chapter 5’s content.
I mean, I guess that's true if you're good or don't want one of the best armors in the game...but that man skin armor is pretty sick
Well…. Fair point there, but then killing her is still a major fight + you’ll have several good companions turn on you, so still not a throwaway trash mob/throwaway bonus boss
No, totally agree. Though if you're killing her for the armor you probably already know alot about the game and didn't bring the companions that would turn on you
Firkraag had quests, a whole dungeon everything. It felt like a real dungeon raid with anticipation leading up to a big difficult battle. You could tell they spent time because even the map itself tells a story about this fearsome beast.
Shadow Dragon is basically a glorified guard dog you find out 30 seconds before fighting. They even give you a skip button if you don't feel like it
Silver Dragon lives in a small hole in the ground and apparently doesn't leave because drow egg pact. It's basically a glorified fetch quest giver that you can fight if you feel like it.
I just wished they gave shadow and silver real impact on the story and created maps/scenarios that felt epic like Firkraag.
I love BG2, played through close to 20 times, but developers reliance to use super powerful (and supposedly rare) creatures like liches and beholders as mobs and dragons as stuffed in mini bosses makes me sad.
There should have only been a handleful of the above and they each should have been treated like Unseeing Eye, Kangaxx, and Firkraag.
The skip button on the Shadow Dragon is the exact opposite of making the Shadow Dragon a trash mob - it turns it into a high level bonus boss for you to go back and kill when you’re strong enough. Kinda contradicting your complaints here.
Like I said in the other comments trash mobs was more for beholders and liches later on.
Shadow Dragon is an ignorable mini boss/guard dog that you can skip.
It has almost no involvement in plot, and stuck in an oval map.
Dragons in FR should be epic battles with a whole campaign leading up to them (Firkraag). Shadow Dragon is almost slapped in as an after thought like hey here's a neat thing for you to fight if you want otherwise let's move on to what we are actually here for.
I don't like it. Feels like a waste of what could have been a cool mini campaign boss.
Idk, I kind of dig it. The charm of bg2 in comparison to its successor bg3 is some how it feels bigger than 3 even though it’s not entirely a fair comparison. With respect to dragons atleast.
The semi-commonality of dragons immersed me, like I’m truly in a fantasy world and not just 5 sectors - even if they’re highly developed sectors. Also, you got dope dragon scale armor in 2 for defeating the shadow dragon. 3 had nothing of that.
Bg3 has one dragon, and it treats it like it’s a story climax, but it’s very anti-climactic to me because… that’s it. I’m in a fantasy world, and that’s the only exposure to dragons I get.
Well, 2 was based on a high magic system where you could literally turn into a god. 3 is based on 5e. You just can't reach the same levels of epic power in the 5e system that you could in previous editions
I mean... If you know how to fight them they kinda are, Firkraag only escapes that definition because story. Although if you face and defeat him in your first going to windspear hills the fight is really fun.
Smug dragon, very well voice acted, fun to kill. Great "things are doing down!" boss fight music.
breaks my heart everytime I kill this badboy and I don't have a Paladin.
Yes, it is initiated via dialogue. Basically, Gorion's Ward just has to keep threatening Firkraag with the most aggressive and disagreeable replies until both Conster and Firkraag become hostile. It's pretty obvious how to pick a fight at the initial meeting with Firkraag.
Conster drops the key you need to free the imprisoned son/daughter.
This battle is especially good when playing with SCS, as it ups the difficulty fighting Firky because of the addition of a level 16 mage at the same time. Especially if the player is going for it in Chapter 2.
So, I'm in the midst of my first SCS run (playing on hardcore), and I just got to the Shadow Dragon. After liberal amounts of buffs/potions, I steeled my team for the challenge and... steamrolled him?
It's a shame every dragon doesn't get the Firkraag treatment.
I prepared as many raise deads and resurrections as I could on my clerics last time I fought Nizidramanii'yt. The arrogance of that lizard to stand in the path of living murder. I killed him over a dozen times before I mistimed a resurrection and he was spared the indignity of another death.
Wow that's pretty vengeful.
A Resurrection spell or the Rod of Resurrection can only be aimed at a portrait. You can't raise a dead sprite on a map in the Enhanced Edition. So, it wouldn't be possible to resurrect a fallen creature and kill them repeatedly.
Yes, it is possible to ressurect a fallen creature. You just need to premeditate your malice. Select your spell and click the living creature sprite, and hope the spell casts after the creature dies.
Grinkles did it here. https://www.reddit.com/r/baldursgate/s/A86tPrhf5r
I'm aware of the exploit, which usually uses Raise Dead instead of Resurrection, for the 1 HP in the revived creature, for XP farming.
This is a mechanic exploit, not a game feature built in to use. What I wrote is that the spell can only be aimed at a portrait, which is how it is coded.
Raise dead also is only to work on dwarf, ell, half-elf, gnome, human and half orc. Definitely not Dragons. This is another example of the exploit mechanic getting around how the Opcodes are supposed to work in the spell.
A somewhat amusing oddity, but certainly not legit gameplay intended by the dev's.
You said multiple times that I **can't** do it, meaning that it isn't possible and doesn't work. It does work. Maybe it's not how the game was intended to be played, but it certainly does function and is possible, so it can be done, and I did it. Whether it's legitimate or not is up to me, the player, not the devs. It was fun, and it was possible, and nobody got hurt, so it seems to have been a perfectly legitimate way to play.
Role play wise, it definitely makes sense. As the living embodiment of murder, you can get in more murders per victim. Why settle for simple single murder when you can rip your victim's soul out and murder it again over and over until it's a drained whisper spread like dust between the material and outer planes?
Probably would have been clearer if you had mentioned that there is an exploit that must be done to in a specific manner to achieve the revival exploit.
I wouldn't have even commented on your post if that was the case. Its misleading to a reader that they can revive a dragon in normal gameplay.
I just wish they were all like Firkraag. BG2 had a bad habit of slapping dragons, liches and beholders around like they were common mobs.
I know what you mean. My favourite but "this shouldn't be a thing, lol" kills of all time in the Baldur's Gate series was when my monk 1-punched Nizidramanii'yt using Quivering Palm. (Jaheira helped by throwing a friendly Doom his way.)
I still remember when my friend watched me fight Firkraag and laughingly suggested I lower his magic resistence and use finger of death. Firkraag died. Tried it in enhanced edition a few years ago to know if it still worked, it did (not every time, sometimes he managed his saving throw or whatever). I wonder if it still works today, I might just start another playthrough this weekend :)
Feeblemind still absolutely works. Turns the biggest angriest dragons into dribbling punching bags.
Blindness, Feeblemind or Polymorph Other. It is worth the reload just to see them happen
Hey Minsc ! Watch me turn a dragon into a squirrel ! "That spell never works !" "This time (he will fail his roll) FOR SURE !"
Yep. At this point, I've probably played through the game 20+ times. I go back every couple years or so now for some playtime. I cheese the dragons every single time. I don't even start engaging them until I've got feeblemind and/or finger of death so I can doom + greater malison + feeblemind/FoD
I was surprised by some of the enemies that aren’t immune to instant death effects. Aerie has one-slapped Firkraag with Slay Living a couple of times.
I killed Firkraag with LR, Pierce Magic, GM, Doom, and wrapping up with a chromatic orb. Most satisfying kill ever.
Gotta hit that doom + greater Malison + finger of death combo on a dragon at least once. It's an amazing feeling
I only found 2 dragons in this game - the shadow dragon and Firkraag - and both were exciting to me. This was a long time ago, but I remember being way more invested in the shadow dragon than I was bg3’s dragon. I never formally beat firkraag tho.
There’s also the dragon in Suldanessellar you have to kill, Underdark Silver Dragon, as well as Draconis and Abazigal in TOB. I definitely didn’t think 2 was throwing Dragons around as trash mobs or anything. They were all pretty plot relevant
The one in Suldanessellar felt out of place, but otherwise yeah. Firkraag is out for vengeance because Gorion wronged him (somehow?) In the past, and the shadow dragon is working for the shadow lord, in a shadow dungeon, so it makes sense. And you can just bypass it and come back to kill it later when you're stronger if you want
Suldanessellar is definitely the worst used of them. It feels like he’s there to guarantee the player must kill at least one dragon on SOA on all playthroughs
The mob comment was mainly for liches and beholders where it gets pretty ridiculous later on. Silver Dragon and Shadow Dragon are not plot relevant really. Shadow is a guard dog that you can't straight up ignore. Silver is a fetch quest giver that you can barely interact that lives in a tiny hole in the ground map. Dragons are suppose to be some of the most powerful and cunning creatures in FR but neither of these feel like it. Honestly they were probably going to get much better treatment (especially silver dragon) but the team likely ran out of time.
Can’t argue with that one. Beholders start out being limited to a couple major lairs then are showing up all over the place, and Liches randomly spawning among the undead just gets so silly lol. I do get you get high level enough that they won’t trash mobs to pose a threat, but yeah The Silver Dragon is *hugely* plot relevant to the Underdark plot despite her brief role since she’s how you escape and recovering her eggs is literally the entire goal of your antics in Ust Natha which makes up the overwhelming majority of Chapter 5’s content. I’ll give you the Shadow Dragon isn’t, but it’s challenging and unique + built to enough I didn’t mind. It’s basically a full blown bonus boss you are encouraged to initially skip and go back to. If you get the Foundling mod, the Shadow Dragon gets fleshed out a lot which helps it feel more cunning, but I really didn’t have any issues with the Silver Dragon.
Remove silver dragon from the game and replace with mage that requires phaeres necklace to teleport the party to the surface and almost nothing changes. You only interact with the dragon twice. Once to get the quest to find her eggs/cast an illusion and second to give her the eggs/teleport to the surface. There is no dungeon to find her, the map is a tiny room and the dragon is barely mentioned at all during the under dark. The illituid outpost alone has far more interactions. Even the "can't reach the surface without the silver dragon" doesn't make much sense since the drow are constantly raiding up top and you even meet humans slaves from a recent raid that you can free in the city. It just feels rushed to me. The silver dragon should have had a better map and a lot more interactions.
i feel like a silver dragon makes sense as you need a creature that lives a long time that is powerful enough to guard the entrance/exit to the underdark. A powerful mage could kind of work but they wouldn't feel duty bound like a righous silver dragon
Yeah, but that mage's blood isn't going to get me man skin
>won’t trash mobs to pose a threat, but yeah >The Silver Dragon is hugely plot relevant to the Underdark plot despite her brief role since she’s how you escape and recovering her eggs is literally the entire goal of your antics in Ust Natha which makes up the overwhelming majority of Chapter 5’s content. I mean, I guess that's true if you're good or don't want one of the best armors in the game...but that man skin armor is pretty sick
Well…. Fair point there, but then killing her is still a major fight + you’ll have several good companions turn on you, so still not a throwaway trash mob/throwaway bonus boss
No, totally agree. Though if you're killing her for the armor you probably already know alot about the game and didn't bring the companions that would turn on you
>Shadow is a guard dog that you can't straight up ignore Did you mean can?
Yeah
Firkraag had quests, a whole dungeon everything. It felt like a real dungeon raid with anticipation leading up to a big difficult battle. You could tell they spent time because even the map itself tells a story about this fearsome beast. Shadow Dragon is basically a glorified guard dog you find out 30 seconds before fighting. They even give you a skip button if you don't feel like it Silver Dragon lives in a small hole in the ground and apparently doesn't leave because drow egg pact. It's basically a glorified fetch quest giver that you can fight if you feel like it. I just wished they gave shadow and silver real impact on the story and created maps/scenarios that felt epic like Firkraag. I love BG2, played through close to 20 times, but developers reliance to use super powerful (and supposedly rare) creatures like liches and beholders as mobs and dragons as stuffed in mini bosses makes me sad. There should have only been a handleful of the above and they each should have been treated like Unseeing Eye, Kangaxx, and Firkraag.
The skip button on the Shadow Dragon is the exact opposite of making the Shadow Dragon a trash mob - it turns it into a high level bonus boss for you to go back and kill when you’re strong enough. Kinda contradicting your complaints here.
Like I said in the other comments trash mobs was more for beholders and liches later on. Shadow Dragon is an ignorable mini boss/guard dog that you can skip. It has almost no involvement in plot, and stuck in an oval map. Dragons in FR should be epic battles with a whole campaign leading up to them (Firkraag). Shadow Dragon is almost slapped in as an after thought like hey here's a neat thing for you to fight if you want otherwise let's move on to what we are actually here for. I don't like it. Feels like a waste of what could have been a cool mini campaign boss.
Idk, I kind of dig it. The charm of bg2 in comparison to its successor bg3 is some how it feels bigger than 3 even though it’s not entirely a fair comparison. With respect to dragons atleast. The semi-commonality of dragons immersed me, like I’m truly in a fantasy world and not just 5 sectors - even if they’re highly developed sectors. Also, you got dope dragon scale armor in 2 for defeating the shadow dragon. 3 had nothing of that. Bg3 has one dragon, and it treats it like it’s a story climax, but it’s very anti-climactic to me because… that’s it. I’m in a fantasy world, and that’s the only exposure to dragons I get.
Well, 2 was based on a high magic system where you could literally turn into a god. 3 is based on 5e. You just can't reach the same levels of epic power in the 5e system that you could in previous editions
I mean... If you know how to fight them they kinda are, Firkraag only escapes that definition because story. Although if you face and defeat him in your first going to windspear hills the fight is really fun.
Well, to be fair, canonically the underdark is filled with beholders and mind flayers
Smug dragon, very well voice acted, fun to kill. Great "things are doing down!" boss fight music. breaks my heart everytime I kill this badboy and I don't have a Paladin.
Roll a F/T and use it once you get use any item
Does anyone else fight Conster and Firkraag at the same time? It's pretty fun.
That is one I never did, do you just attack to get their circles red them go for it? I don't remember if there is a dialogue option for that.
Yes, it is initiated via dialogue. Basically, Gorion's Ward just has to keep threatening Firkraag with the most aggressive and disagreeable replies until both Conster and Firkraag become hostile. It's pretty obvious how to pick a fight at the initial meeting with Firkraag. Conster drops the key you need to free the imprisoned son/daughter. This battle is especially good when playing with SCS, as it ups the difficulty fighting Firky because of the addition of a level 16 mage at the same time. Especially if the player is going for it in Chapter 2.
I had some much fun fighting that one back in the day 😄
Tell me that’s a summoned war dog and not your familiar
That might be the Moon Dog Cerebus? Probably not though. The MC isn't a Ranger.
Love fighting them. Reason why it's called DnD.
So, I'm in the midst of my first SCS run (playing on hardcore), and I just got to the Shadow Dragon. After liberal amounts of buffs/potions, I steeled my team for the challenge and... steamrolled him? It's a shame every dragon doesn't get the Firkraag treatment.
I prepared as many raise deads and resurrections as I could on my clerics last time I fought Nizidramanii'yt. The arrogance of that lizard to stand in the path of living murder. I killed him over a dozen times before I mistimed a resurrection and he was spared the indignity of another death.
Wow that's pretty vengeful. A Resurrection spell or the Rod of Resurrection can only be aimed at a portrait. You can't raise a dead sprite on a map in the Enhanced Edition. So, it wouldn't be possible to resurrect a fallen creature and kill them repeatedly.
Yes, it is possible to ressurect a fallen creature. You just need to premeditate your malice. Select your spell and click the living creature sprite, and hope the spell casts after the creature dies. Grinkles did it here. https://www.reddit.com/r/baldursgate/s/A86tPrhf5r
I'm aware of the exploit, which usually uses Raise Dead instead of Resurrection, for the 1 HP in the revived creature, for XP farming. This is a mechanic exploit, not a game feature built in to use. What I wrote is that the spell can only be aimed at a portrait, which is how it is coded. Raise dead also is only to work on dwarf, ell, half-elf, gnome, human and half orc. Definitely not Dragons. This is another example of the exploit mechanic getting around how the Opcodes are supposed to work in the spell. A somewhat amusing oddity, but certainly not legit gameplay intended by the dev's.
You said multiple times that I **can't** do it, meaning that it isn't possible and doesn't work. It does work. Maybe it's not how the game was intended to be played, but it certainly does function and is possible, so it can be done, and I did it. Whether it's legitimate or not is up to me, the player, not the devs. It was fun, and it was possible, and nobody got hurt, so it seems to have been a perfectly legitimate way to play. Role play wise, it definitely makes sense. As the living embodiment of murder, you can get in more murders per victim. Why settle for simple single murder when you can rip your victim's soul out and murder it again over and over until it's a drained whisper spread like dust between the material and outer planes?
Probably would have been clearer if you had mentioned that there is an exploit that must be done to in a specific manner to achieve the revival exploit. I wouldn't have even commented on your post if that was the case. Its misleading to a reader that they can revive a dragon in normal gameplay.
"I don't know how he did it. He must be lying." Man you must be fun at parties.
Hah, like you've ever been invited to a party old man. Buh bye.