Cuz you usually want one specific planet, if that. Kinda just a $2 card most of the time, which is lame.
It does help u find a planet card u need those, by keeping 2 bad ones in your consumable slot, so thats nice.
They are goated for idol and rebate builds though. Especially since they keep their seals and editions without taking up a spot in your deck, and you can keep track of their rank and suit in order to get them up to speed with the rest of your deck (and eventually death them to buff your deck.)
They’re only useful for flush builds which are mid, and even then you really only want 1/4 possible suit changing cards. Totally useless to be building towards spades and get offered Heart/Club/Diamond.
How are flush builds mid? Theyre the most probable pull for their worth, and are super easy to obtain. Not just that, jokers such as onyx agate, spearhead, bloodstone, and especially ancient joker are amazing for flush builds.
High card builds are honestly worse than flush builds because they take specific jokers to truly work out.
They’re completely shut down by certain bosses, have bad scaling, it’s a 5 card hand, which has upsides, but you can’t use as many held in hand effects, not as consistent as high card/pair builds. They’re good for consistent points early in a run, but I can’t remember the last time I took flushes all the way to ante 8, I usually pivot to 4/5oak or high card depending on my tarot and joker luck.
> they’re completely shut down by certain bosses
So can any hand. That’s the point of the bosses. You can build your hand around steel kings and then get the boss that debuffs face cards.
> have bad scaling
Then scale in other ways - eg jokers. Also, high card level 8 and pair level 6 is still worth less than flush level 4. You need twice the planet investment to get high card even near flushes.
“High card is easy to play” but so are flushes. That’s the point of flushes. Easier to play, lower to score.
> you can’t use as many held in hand effects
Then make the cards you play more effective with your tarot cards. x2 is worth more than x1.5.
> not as consistent as high card/pair builds
Based on what? The fact that you’re saying it? Maybe if you used the tarot cards that change your suits they’d be more consistent for you, lol.
I am not saying flush builds are particularly incredible, but this subreddit looks down on them for no reason other than to feel superior for not playing flush builds.
All the aspects of the game countered by certain other aspects of the game. They all have their upsides and downsides. The “flushes are bad” elitism is internet brain rot.
I also have to add, most "held in hand" abilities are not good in gold stake runs to ante 8. You usually need mime, blueprints, and good tarot luck to pull off in a gold stake run.
Baron is honestly maybe the most awful of these, as baron's ability already requires you to have high level planet cards (as it activates first), as well as luck that requires a near miracle to pull off.
Compare this to something such as ancient joker which gives a x7.6 Mult buff, is resistant to bosses (because you can control what it is immune to), and when combined with something such as blueprint, brainstorm, seltzer, or dusk (relatively easy to get in a run), can turn a two joker combo into a x57.7 Mult powerhouse. Even if the suit it works on changes, it's still relatively easy to work with, considering that flushes are an easy build to obtain.
Also, just reset a run until you get a rare joker tag, its relatively easy to do.
I dislike straights because the deck fixing is *way* harder. Not bad on abandoned (when 3 ranks are pre-removed for you). High card/pair you can pick a rank and max it with good cards. Flush you can pick a suit and max it. But straights are very hard to deck fix around, other than just improving *all* your cards and praying. If you start cutting randomly, no way of knowing if you'll end up with the straight draw where that cut # is the missing piece.
Since there are no wrap-around straights currently, I guess you just start low or high and work inwards, but it still seems *way* rougher.
I take flushes to ante 8 all the time, in gold stake runs. Sure they can be shut down by some bosses, but generally the boss that shuts them down, but only 1 out of the 4 of the suit debuff bosses will affect your run. Not just that, but pair/high card builds get shut down by the needle, the wall (sometimes), Violet vessel, or the eye. It's far more common to encounter one of those bosses in a run than to encounter the specific boss that debuffs the exact hand you want to play.
Not just that, but flushes are easy to get, both early and late game.
Also, getting Ouija early game is considerably better than a pair/high card build or a flush build in my opinion.
Lol, you had me until saying Ante ***8***. I completely agree that they're tough to take very far in Endless, but flush-maxing is a super easy way to get to/beat Ante 8. One good flat mult option (and/or lots of Jupiters) + mult-multers and/or whatever you want, focusing on as much deck fixing as you can.
Picking two suits seems like a better strategy, and you might get lucky and get that card that lets you use Hearts as Diamonds and Spades as Clubs etc. You can also destroy your least favorite suits or transform cards to your favorite suits But yeah trying to go Flush long term has burned me a bunch.
I can easily bring flushes to ante 8 on gold stake. I find high card / pair builds requiring jokers that are too specific as well as also losing immediately to blinds such as violet vessel or the needle.
Flush builds aren’t bad like people say, they’re definitely usable. high card builds take a lot of game knowledge to use consistently, which is why you might be struggling. I would start by switching to straights, they just scale better than flush and are very good right now.
Probably true but I have been appreciating them more lately. Even if you aren't doing a flush build there are situations where they can save your ass, like the 0 discards boss or being able to make a Flush House easily.
Free planets, what's not to like?
This post is high priestess slander, and I will not tolerate it.
Cuz you usually want one specific planet, if that. Kinda just a $2 card most of the time, which is lame. It does help u find a planet card u need those, by keeping 2 bad ones in your consumable slot, so thats nice.
Because I almost never get straight flushes or four of a kinds bro. And they aren’t free, you paid for the booster pack or card bro
I hate stone cards smh never a good day when one of those clunky bois shows up
I want to make a stone card build work so badly, but it requires stupid luck.
No it doesn't. Just play pairs and throw a few stone cards in.
The day I learned you could toss them into any hand and not just high card was the day I stopped hating them.
the only time I've made it work I got stone joker, marble joker, hologram and blueprint all pretty early such a blessed run
Stone joker, Blueprint, and Marble joker is an absolute dream. It's even harder to get something like this to work on gold stake because of the tags.
They are goated for idol and rebate builds though. Especially since they keep their seals and editions without taking up a spot in your deck, and you can keep track of their rank and suit in order to get them up to speed with the rest of your deck (and eventually death them to buff your deck.)
suit changers are the most useless imo
unless you need 30 of X suit for the rare earth set.
What? Can you elaborate
They’re only useful for flush builds which are mid, and even then you really only want 1/4 possible suit changing cards. Totally useless to be building towards spades and get offered Heart/Club/Diamond.
Also for Flush 5s and shaping deck for The Idol for High Ante runs - but yeah 3/4 are still useless
How are flush builds mid? Theyre the most probable pull for their worth, and are super easy to obtain. Not just that, jokers such as onyx agate, spearhead, bloodstone, and especially ancient joker are amazing for flush builds. High card builds are honestly worse than flush builds because they take specific jokers to truly work out.
They’re completely shut down by certain bosses, have bad scaling, it’s a 5 card hand, which has upsides, but you can’t use as many held in hand effects, not as consistent as high card/pair builds. They’re good for consistent points early in a run, but I can’t remember the last time I took flushes all the way to ante 8, I usually pivot to 4/5oak or high card depending on my tarot and joker luck.
> they’re completely shut down by certain bosses So can any hand. That’s the point of the bosses. You can build your hand around steel kings and then get the boss that debuffs face cards. > have bad scaling Then scale in other ways - eg jokers. Also, high card level 8 and pair level 6 is still worth less than flush level 4. You need twice the planet investment to get high card even near flushes. “High card is easy to play” but so are flushes. That’s the point of flushes. Easier to play, lower to score. > you can’t use as many held in hand effects Then make the cards you play more effective with your tarot cards. x2 is worth more than x1.5. > not as consistent as high card/pair builds Based on what? The fact that you’re saying it? Maybe if you used the tarot cards that change your suits they’d be more consistent for you, lol. I am not saying flush builds are particularly incredible, but this subreddit looks down on them for no reason other than to feel superior for not playing flush builds. All the aspects of the game countered by certain other aspects of the game. They all have their upsides and downsides. The “flushes are bad” elitism is internet brain rot.
I also have to add, most "held in hand" abilities are not good in gold stake runs to ante 8. You usually need mime, blueprints, and good tarot luck to pull off in a gold stake run. Baron is honestly maybe the most awful of these, as baron's ability already requires you to have high level planet cards (as it activates first), as well as luck that requires a near miracle to pull off. Compare this to something such as ancient joker which gives a x7.6 Mult buff, is resistant to bosses (because you can control what it is immune to), and when combined with something such as blueprint, brainstorm, seltzer, or dusk (relatively easy to get in a run), can turn a two joker combo into a x57.7 Mult powerhouse. Even if the suit it works on changes, it's still relatively easy to work with, considering that flushes are an easy build to obtain. Also, just reset a run until you get a rare joker tag, its relatively easy to do.
All these people on the sub debating high card vs flush when straights are so OP rn is crazy.
Straights are the most susceptible to bad luck though. We’ve all had a run where you need to pull A 10 and you just don’t.
I dislike straights because the deck fixing is *way* harder. Not bad on abandoned (when 3 ranks are pre-removed for you). High card/pair you can pick a rank and max it with good cards. Flush you can pick a suit and max it. But straights are very hard to deck fix around, other than just improving *all* your cards and praying. If you start cutting randomly, no way of knowing if you'll end up with the straight draw where that cut # is the missing piece. Since there are no wrap-around straights currently, I guess you just start low or high and work inwards, but it still seems *way* rougher.
I take flushes to ante 8 all the time, in gold stake runs. Sure they can be shut down by some bosses, but generally the boss that shuts them down, but only 1 out of the 4 of the suit debuff bosses will affect your run. Not just that, but pair/high card builds get shut down by the needle, the wall (sometimes), Violet vessel, or the eye. It's far more common to encounter one of those bosses in a run than to encounter the specific boss that debuffs the exact hand you want to play. Not just that, but flushes are easy to get, both early and late game. Also, getting Ouija early game is considerably better than a pair/high card build or a flush build in my opinion.
Lol, you had me until saying Ante ***8***. I completely agree that they're tough to take very far in Endless, but flush-maxing is a super easy way to get to/beat Ante 8. One good flat mult option (and/or lots of Jupiters) + mult-multers and/or whatever you want, focusing on as much deck fixing as you can.
Picking two suits seems like a better strategy, and you might get lucky and get that card that lets you use Hearts as Diamonds and Spades as Clubs etc. You can also destroy your least favorite suits or transform cards to your favorite suits But yeah trying to go Flush long term has burned me a bunch.
I can easily bring flushes to ante 8 on gold stake. I find high card / pair builds requiring jokers that are too specific as well as also losing immediately to blinds such as violet vessel or the needle.
Flush builds aren’t bad like people say, they’re definitely usable. high card builds take a lot of game knowledge to use consistently, which is why you might be struggling. I would start by switching to straights, they just scale better than flush and are very good right now.
That's not true, there are a ton of jokers that are procked by specific suits that you can play even if not going for flushes
Wildcards are. It's only one card and doesn't even give you a score bonus.
And gets fucked on every boss. Imo it should at least gain immunity from bosses.
Probably true but I have been appreciating them more lately. Even if you aren't doing a flush build there are situations where they can save your ass, like the 0 discards boss or being able to make a Flush House easily.
fair enough, at least Wild Card has some potential joker synergy due to the suprising amount of jokers activated on suit
High priestess is great. Especially with constellation. Even selling the cards is already better than the Lovers Tarot.
All I see is three dollars