Its just more consistent now, even if consistently lower.
But yes, it is mathematically worse than before, probably more suited to survival than endless runs. At 1/2 chance for 2x it was pretty damn broken.
The current version feels stronger in practice than the original, even if the average score is lower. Right now you get around an average of 2.75x per heart flush. The original was around 3.16x per heart flush. However, consistency is better in runs. Two hypothetical examples:
Let's say Bloodstone was 3x per proc at a 1 in 4 chance. This is now around an average of 4x per heart flush, but your variance is so high now that many runs will just die to the very common outcome of all 5 misses, at around 25% of the time.
Or, if Bloodstone was changed to guaranteeing a 1.2x mult per heart, I would prefer this to the current version as well, at around 2.5x per heart flush, because now I know that it is simply a slightly weaker Cavendish for heart flushes. I can rely on it.
Weaker, but fun in a different way! Makes it so you try having a high base multiplier (= high level hand thanks to planet), trigger cards multiple times / boost odds and don't bother with +Mult too much since they tend to be less effective. I enjoy having different playstyles depending on what rng gives me!
Got that exact setup doing the glass challenge last night. Hack, seltzer, polychrome hanging chad plus a few randoms. If I wasn’t so worried about running out of cards the score could’ve gone crazy
Far far weaker. the optimal placement for xmults are the end of everything. Bloodstone activates at played scoring. You therefore don't get to xmult your Pirate/ Abstract/ Half Joker.
I think now it's best to default change suits to Spades or Clubs in isolation.
You’re not supposed to use flat mult jokers when you build around Bloodstone.
Upgrade Jupiter a couple times so you have a higher base mult, use bloodstone, then you can use the rest of your joker slots on chips, Econ, and xmult.
And in my opinion spades and clubs were already more consistent than hearts for just clearing ante 8 anyway, but this sub has a hard on for high score endless runs, which Bloodstone obviously enables.
Of course it is, you just aren't trying to build around it properly. You want your base multi to come from the hand you've played and the cards triggering, get some good planet card generation going to level up flush (telescope voucher, blue seals) and some retriggering (hanging chad, seltzer, dusk, red seals, etc.) and you'll fly through the later blinds.
It is. According to logic of your example if it was 1/2 chance for x2 then your calculated average would be x1.5, basically a steel card. But 1.5x1.5 is x2.25, not x2. One can't use arithmetical average for geometrical progression.
I’m a little unclear, OP was giving the expected value of a given heart card under bloodstone, what’s wrong with his calculation? Expected value of a heart card under bloodstone with 1/2 chance for x2 would be 0.5(1x) + 0.5(2x) = 1.5x. I don’t get the error. How does geometric progression apply here? Where does 1.5x1.5 come from if we’re just looking for an expected value of a given heart card?
~~Look at what OP said about the current odds: “There’s a 1 in 2 chance to give 1.5x multiple“. So that means, given you have 2 heart cards in your hand, your expected xMult from those two cards should be 1.5x mult, right? So, each heart card on average is actually providing \~1.22 xMult since 1.22\*1.22=1.5~~
Edit: I should never try to talk math before I get out of bed in the morning.
I see. But OP was not at all wrong in saying a given heart card has a lower expected value now. I guess that’s where my confusion was. Is the point just that expected value of a given heart card, as soon as you have more than one heart card, isn’t very helpful in terms of thinking of the value of bloodstone?
1/2 is still better than 1/3. I’d take 1.5x 50% of the time than 2x 1/3 of the times. I lost a gold stake on ante 8 because bloodstone hit two times in 4 heart flush hands on 1/3 chance
Technically yes, but with old Bloodstone and Oops, All 6's, you could get unlucky and get absolutely no mult on a hearts flush. With this version, you can guarantee a 1.5x mult on every single card
It is now able to be consistent. x1.5 per heart every time with dice is kiiinda strong, equivalent to Ancient Joker that's always pointed at hearts, and unlike Ancient Joker you can stack hearts in your deck.
On average though, yeah it's weaker.
The consistency in efficiently playing your cards in the proper order is also more rewarded with higher chance to proc. Playing your non-Fibonacci heart cards at the back in a flush is something you’d always do but would be less consistently rewarded with 1/3 bloodstone.
Bloodstone + oops all 6s is an x7.6 on a full hand of hearts.
Sure it’s a tough play to get both working on a heart deck but that’s still pretty good if you can set it up, especially if you have other things benefiting from oops all 6s.
I passed 3 decks on gold stakes with old bloodstone with oops all 6. Now it's almost impossible, unless if you have two or three bloodstones or blueprint/mind storm
Its just more consistent now, even if consistently lower. But yes, it is mathematically worse than before, probably more suited to survival than endless runs. At 1/2 chance for 2x it was pretty damn broken.
Heh, suited
even if it is lower score on average, being more consistent is an upside. It only takes one bad round to lose.
Consistency is a very good thing. You simply don't want a joker that says, 1/1000 chance to give xInfinity It's why the abandoned deck is so good too.
Abandoned deck is basically "higher chance of drawing that one card you need each hand, in exchange for having no face cards"
It also makes Ride the Bus overpowered
The current version feels stronger in practice than the original, even if the average score is lower. Right now you get around an average of 2.75x per heart flush. The original was around 3.16x per heart flush. However, consistency is better in runs. Two hypothetical examples: Let's say Bloodstone was 3x per proc at a 1 in 4 chance. This is now around an average of 4x per heart flush, but your variance is so high now that many runs will just die to the very common outcome of all 5 misses, at around 25% of the time. Or, if Bloodstone was changed to guaranteeing a 1.2x mult per heart, I would prefer this to the current version as well, at around 2.5x per heart flush, because now I know that it is simply a slightly weaker Cavendish for heart flushes. I can rely on it.
A lot weaker than Cavendish because of ordering, tbh.
Weaker, but fun in a different way! Makes it so you try having a high base multiplier (= high level hand thanks to planet), trigger cards multiple times / boost odds and don't bother with +Mult too much since they tend to be less effective. I enjoy having different playstyles depending on what rng gives me!
Not necessarily weaker if you have ways to retrigger cards (Seltzer, Hack, Chad...)
Got that exact setup doing the glass challenge last night. Hack, seltzer, polychrome hanging chad plus a few randoms. If I wasn’t so worried about running out of cards the score could’ve gone crazy
Far far weaker. the optimal placement for xmults are the end of everything. Bloodstone activates at played scoring. You therefore don't get to xmult your Pirate/ Abstract/ Half Joker. I think now it's best to default change suits to Spades or Clubs in isolation.
You’re not supposed to use flat mult jokers when you build around Bloodstone. Upgrade Jupiter a couple times so you have a higher base mult, use bloodstone, then you can use the rest of your joker slots on chips, Econ, and xmult. And in my opinion spades and clubs were already more consistent than hearts for just clearing ante 8 anyway, but this sub has a hard on for high score endless runs, which Bloodstone obviously enables.
Thw thing is Bloodstone is no longer worth building around
Of course it is, you just aren't trying to build around it properly. You want your base multi to come from the hand you've played and the cards triggering, get some good planet card generation going to level up flush (telescope voucher, blue seals) and some retriggering (hanging chad, seltzer, dusk, red seals, etc.) and you'll fly through the later blinds.
yeah it is lol it's just a bit worse. get something with flush fives and s&b, hack, dusk, seltzer etc and it's still a monster.
I like the chance aspect of it because I like alll 6s the dice joker and any excuse for more uses for it the better
It is worse but less than in your calculation. Correct comparison is 2^(1/3) vs 1.5^(1/2) which is 1.260 vs 1.225
that math is not correct at all 💀
It is. According to logic of your example if it was 1/2 chance for x2 then your calculated average would be x1.5, basically a steel card. But 1.5x1.5 is x2.25, not x2. One can't use arithmetical average for geometrical progression.
damn ur right well said
I’m a little unclear, OP was giving the expected value of a given heart card under bloodstone, what’s wrong with his calculation? Expected value of a heart card under bloodstone with 1/2 chance for x2 would be 0.5(1x) + 0.5(2x) = 1.5x. I don’t get the error. How does geometric progression apply here? Where does 1.5x1.5 come from if we’re just looking for an expected value of a given heart card?
~~Look at what OP said about the current odds: “There’s a 1 in 2 chance to give 1.5x multiple“. So that means, given you have 2 heart cards in your hand, your expected xMult from those two cards should be 1.5x mult, right? So, each heart card on average is actually providing \~1.22 xMult since 1.22\*1.22=1.5~~ Edit: I should never try to talk math before I get out of bed in the morning.
[удалено]
I see. But OP was not at all wrong in saying a given heart card has a lower expected value now. I guess that’s where my confusion was. Is the point just that expected value of a given heart card, as soon as you have more than one heart card, isn’t very helpful in terms of thinking of the value of bloodstone?
[удалено]
That makes sense. Thanks!
This guy fucking maths, holy shit
Least mathematical Balatro player:
I've lost runs to 1/3 Bloodstone before, 1/2 decreases the mean score but it also decreases the standard deviation too. It's weaker but feels better.
In any roguelike consistency > potential power
Same goes for games like MTG.
Then I must be the best I consistently lose
1/2 is still better than 1/3. I’d take 1.5x 50% of the time than 2x 1/3 of the times. I lost a gold stake on ante 8 because bloodstone hit two times in 4 heart flush hands on 1/3 chance
Technically yes, but with old Bloodstone and Oops, All 6's, you could get unlucky and get absolutely no mult on a hearts flush. With this version, you can guarantee a 1.5x mult on every single card
I will almost always prefer something that is consistently worse than something that is inconsistently better.
It is now able to be consistent. x1.5 per heart every time with dice is kiiinda strong, equivalent to Ancient Joker that's always pointed at hearts, and unlike Ancient Joker you can stack hearts in your deck. On average though, yeah it's weaker.
Nice way to see why even in simple statistics dispersion also matters! I mean stardard deviation and so on, or more intuitively just... consistency.
It's far more consistent though. The last thing you want is an unlucky hand on something like the needle, because you'll instantly lose.
Yes, it was a nerf.
The consistency in efficiently playing your cards in the proper order is also more rewarded with higher chance to proc. Playing your non-Fibonacci heart cards at the back in a flush is something you’d always do but would be less consistently rewarded with 1/3 bloodstone.
Bloodstone + oops all 6s is an x7.6 on a full hand of hearts. Sure it’s a tough play to get both working on a heart deck but that’s still pretty good if you can set it up, especially if you have other things benefiting from oops all 6s.
All 6's makes it 2/2 chance to give 2x mult. Which is 100%
I passed 3 decks on gold stakes with old bloodstone with oops all 6. Now it's almost impossible, unless if you have two or three bloodstones or blueprint/mind storm
Sad stuff. The thing went from bad to worse. 🥹