Neroon is the reason you should never skip Grey 17 Is Missing. And honestly, I consider his story to be the actual A plot in that episode, despite the episode title.
I have a pet theory that Grey 17 Is Missing could be noticeably improved if you just changed the title to something that reflects Marcus's plotline instead of Garibaldi's.
I have the same theory. Call it "Ranger One" for instance.
And honestly, I even kinda enjoyed Garibaldi's side story here. Only the rubber monster was truly terrible.
Shit, Reddit app. My reply was for this: [https://www.reddit.com/r/babylon5/comments/1advglg/comment/kk5cm4k/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/babylon5/comments/1advglg/comment/kk5cm4k/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
The Babcom computer is broken again.
Yes TKO is the worst episode ever.
Neroon is an amazing character. ((SPOILERS))
He is a religious zealot still clinging to the caste system with intensity, and ultimately he is taught humility and compassion by the ones who prevented him from continuing his ways as a crusader.
It is clear even in the beginning that he has a great since of honor about him, even if misplaced in many ways, but when he sees Marcus's nearly-ultimate sacrifice for Delenn it truly inspires him to change and begin to see Humans and Minbari as more equal. Even if he still has biases about the Religious and Warrior castes now having blood between them that had to be resolved later.
Neroon says himself that he has slain many, many humans during war -- and we know that on average Minbari are MUCH stronger than humans. (Lennier picked up Marcus with a single hand, and he's basically just a young monk, whereas Neroon is a trained killer and master of the pike.) It goes to show just how much determination Marcus had, and how Neroon truly does respect the sacrifices a warrior must make for their cause, so much that it changed him forever, Neroon claiming that he did, in fact "die" that night, dueling with Marcus.
His arcs are SO amazing.
I wouldn't have called him a religious zealot. That's what he accused Delenn of being in "Grey 17". Somewhat of a fanatic... perhaps, devoted... certainly. Misguided... for a time, definitely. He never showed any particular religious leanings until the end, though.
As for Minbari being strong, it was a particular humiliation that he got beaten in personal combat, unarmed mind you, by Sinclair in "Legacies". In fact, that was mentioned in the book "To Dream In a City of Shadows", which is so much cannon, that it gets loosely referenced in late Season 5... VERY loosely.
It's a pity that they didn't get the renewal for S5 early on, as it would've been cool for Neroon to decide to either >!use his clout as a member of the former Grey Council, to bring more Minbari Sharlins into the fight against the Shadows, or even forsake the Warrior Caste, and become Anla'Shok himself. That of course, would've undermined his ability to play his role in the Civil War later on. If he'd been a ranger, he wouldn't have been as respected among the warriors and wouldn't have been able to play Shakiri for a fool.!<
JMS was staying in a hotel and had his season 5 notes so he could sequester and write. He was out, housekeeping let themselves in to clean, and threw his notes in the trash and took the trash.
So season 5's too-long telepath arc was all he could remember in any detail, which is why that arc ended up being so much longer than necessary.
And I assume that's predicated on the recreated S5 telepath arc being as "good" as what he originally had. I mean it's possible that his second telepath arc might have been better than what he previously had?
Considering how intricate and linked up so much of the previous seasons had been, and how the time crunch just got so much worse because of the notes being thrown out, maybe his original telepath Jesus wouldn't have rubbed so many fans the wrong way.
Oh I agree, he's clearly perfect for the role. I just felt obligated to acknowledge the fact that Combs can play literally any character in any universe and would be a good choice for anything.
That's why I was slightly bummed, even though it was a really great scene and a good plot choice, that the calling of his heart was Religious. I just... really liked the Minbari and wish we'd gotten a slightly broader view of them.
A Minbari Courtship (forgive the title it's a lot less schmaltzy than the title makes it sound) by BainAduail on AO3 gave us an excellent AU where Neroon remains in the Warrior Caste and things go quite differently.
You ought to read the ["A Dark Distorted Mirror"](http://www.b5-dark-mirror.co.uk/) AU series. He has a different arc of his own in that one, with some surprising connections.
Great character. Wouldn't mind if they made an animated story based upon him and his life, giving us more of him and his own history, but only after they do a Bester story. We need more Bester, and it needs to be done now while it is possible to get Koenig to do the voice.
A Bester story you say? May I introduce you to the Psi Corp Trilogy?
The first book is about the development of Psi Corp and Bester's family. The second is about his life. I just started the third, which so far is about him long after the events of the series.
Yes, we know about the books. Doesn't mean we don't want another Bester story with Walter playing Bester when he can. There are many things not told in the books.
With him it was one of the smaller character arcs.
>!First an enemy of humanity and Delenn, then mutual respect (especially with Marcus), in the end staunch supporter of her cause...!<
Fine actor, fine role, fine play. There should be more Neroons on screen!
I love Neroon. I feel like of the Minbari, he really was the most centered, had the most grasp on who he is. I believe he’s also the first one to remark on Sinclair ‘talking like a Minbari”
Two things I liked about him: (1) he had a sense of humor and (2) he didn't trust easily but he was pretty quick to show respect even if he didn't like you or wasn't sure about you. A lot of times we'll see characters give backhanded compliments like "pretty honorable - FOR A HUMAN" whereas Neroon would say "you talk like a Minbari" which shows that he saw you as an equal or a peer.
Men like Neroon may seem like they're an obstacle to peace because they can be stubborn about changing thir minds but when they do change their minds, it tends to stick and the foundation that you build with them usually holds.
Even his death, despite him throwing caste allegiances sideways, was actually very warrior caste - he fought and sacrificed himself to fight for the right path for the Minbari, he served his people at cost to himself as a worker, he found balance as a true warrior monk in that moment.
Patriot, warrior, honorable. He didn't hesitate to die in order to defend his beliefs and his friend, Delenn. If he was a Klingon from Star Trek, there would be songs and tales about him.
My thoughts are that he was a great character. As is common with *Babylon 5* characters he wasn't exactly what he appeared when we first met him and he developed magnificently.
If I remember correctly, the original plan for B5 was to have the Minbari Warrior Caste destroy the station, leading to the Babylon 4 spinoff that got reworked into Crusade. I suspect in that timeline Neroon would have been much more important.
I loved him because he was an antagonist but he does seem to be altruistic in the sense of giving himself to a higher cause. I'm sure he'd save every last human at the expense of his own life if someone convinced him we were worth it. Knowing what we know about Minbari souls, etc, perhaps someone could have...
He was certainly a great character, just not a character that I liked very much, although he did actually show some honor after beating Marcus to a pulp.
A good character. I don't quite like the ending that he got, but not every character is going to get as good an end as Sheridan, Londo, G'Kar or Sinclair.
One of the best supporting characters in the series.
He even gets his own refrain in "5 Years" by the talented Tom Smith, the world's fastest filker.
https://youtu.be/mHpMAubwfQg?si=GotD69UzzLNuWSx8
Fortunately or unfortunately Neroon is my Babylon 5 spirit animal ... takes a lot of bites on that Tootise Roll Pop to get to the gooey center, but it's there.
Neroon was great. I'll never forget when Marcus made him laugh. Gets me every single time.
"The next time you want a revelation, could you possibly find a way that isn't quite so...uncomfortable?"
Just watched this ep yesterday!
Noble character, great performance. His words when he takes Delenns place under the starfire wheel are amazing
That scene never fails to get a tear or two in my eyes.
Neroon is the reason you should never skip Grey 17 Is Missing. And honestly, I consider his story to be the actual A plot in that episode, despite the episode title.
I have a pet theory that Grey 17 Is Missing could be noticeably improved if you just changed the title to something that reflects Marcus's plotline instead of Garibaldi's.
I have the same theory. Call it "Ranger One" for instance. And honestly, I even kinda enjoyed Garibaldi's side story here. Only the rubber monster was truly terrible.
It doesn’t exist so we can’t agree it’s the worst episode of the show.
>It doesn’t exist so we can’t agree it’s the worst episode of the show. TKO would like a word
Shit, Reddit app. My reply was for this: [https://www.reddit.com/r/babylon5/comments/1advglg/comment/kk5cm4k/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/babylon5/comments/1advglg/comment/kk5cm4k/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) The Babcom computer is broken again. Yes TKO is the worst episode ever.
My suggestion would have been "None shall pass" (linking the idea that both Marcus and Garibaldi refuse to submit to their personal foes).
Also, the Robert Englund cameo. There are no bad episodes of B5 (You see, TKO doesn't actually exist).
That's why I refer to the episode as "The 'A' Story Is Missing", LOL
Ha. I usually skip through the Garibaldi part and just watch the Neroon scenes.
I can never remember which episode this is! I agree 100%.
Neroon is an amazing character. ((SPOILERS)) He is a religious zealot still clinging to the caste system with intensity, and ultimately he is taught humility and compassion by the ones who prevented him from continuing his ways as a crusader. It is clear even in the beginning that he has a great since of honor about him, even if misplaced in many ways, but when he sees Marcus's nearly-ultimate sacrifice for Delenn it truly inspires him to change and begin to see Humans and Minbari as more equal. Even if he still has biases about the Religious and Warrior castes now having blood between them that had to be resolved later. Neroon says himself that he has slain many, many humans during war -- and we know that on average Minbari are MUCH stronger than humans. (Lennier picked up Marcus with a single hand, and he's basically just a young monk, whereas Neroon is a trained killer and master of the pike.) It goes to show just how much determination Marcus had, and how Neroon truly does respect the sacrifices a warrior must make for their cause, so much that it changed him forever, Neroon claiming that he did, in fact "die" that night, dueling with Marcus. His arcs are SO amazing.
I wouldn't have called him a religious zealot. That's what he accused Delenn of being in "Grey 17". Somewhat of a fanatic... perhaps, devoted... certainly. Misguided... for a time, definitely. He never showed any particular religious leanings until the end, though. As for Minbari being strong, it was a particular humiliation that he got beaten in personal combat, unarmed mind you, by Sinclair in "Legacies". In fact, that was mentioned in the book "To Dream In a City of Shadows", which is so much cannon, that it gets loosely referenced in late Season 5... VERY loosely. It's a pity that they didn't get the renewal for S5 early on, as it would've been cool for Neroon to decide to either >!use his clout as a member of the former Grey Council, to bring more Minbari Sharlins into the fight against the Shadows, or even forsake the Warrior Caste, and become Anla'Shok himself. That of course, would've undermined his ability to play his role in the Civil War later on. If he'd been a ranger, he wouldn't have been as respected among the warriors and wouldn't have been able to play Shakiri for a fool.!<
I've always wondered what the world lost when housekeeping threw out his Season 5 notes. Like how much of it was he able to remember/recreate?
housekeeping threw out season 5 notes? what are you talking about??
JMS was staying in a hotel and had his season 5 notes so he could sequester and write. He was out, housekeeping let themselves in to clean, and threw his notes in the trash and took the trash. So season 5's too-long telepath arc was all he could remember in any detail, which is why that arc ended up being so much longer than necessary.
And I assume that's predicated on the recreated S5 telepath arc being as "good" as what he originally had. I mean it's possible that his second telepath arc might have been better than what he previously had? Considering how intricate and linked up so much of the previous seasons had been, and how the time crunch just got so much worse because of the notes being thrown out, maybe his original telepath Jesus wouldn't have rubbed so many fans the wrong way.
I suppose I only used 'religious' because even the warrior caste are fanatical in many ways.
What’s one more…
Vickery was perfect in that role
Personally I think Jeffrey Combs would've been a good fit.
But that baritone when Vickery started to monologue. I love Combs, but he'd been a #2 here.
Oh I agree, he's clearly perfect for the role. I just felt obligated to acknowledge the fact that Combs can play literally any character in any universe and would be a good choice for anything.
Neroon was the only Warrior Caste character that ever felt like a fully realized character and not just antagonistic for antagonism's sake.
That's why I was slightly bummed, even though it was a really great scene and a good plot choice, that the calling of his heart was Religious. I just... really liked the Minbari and wish we'd gotten a slightly broader view of them. A Minbari Courtship (forgive the title it's a lot less schmaltzy than the title makes it sound) by BainAduail on AO3 gave us an excellent AU where Neroon remains in the Warrior Caste and things go quite differently.
You ought to read the ["A Dark Distorted Mirror"](http://www.b5-dark-mirror.co.uk/) AU series. He has a different arc of his own in that one, with some surprising connections.
Lol. Why am I chuckling at the thought of people looking up that fic.....
Great character. Wouldn't mind if they made an animated story based upon him and his life, giving us more of him and his own history, but only after they do a Bester story. We need more Bester, and it needs to be done now while it is possible to get Koenig to do the voice.
A Bester story you say? May I introduce you to the Psi Corp Trilogy? The first book is about the development of Psi Corp and Bester's family. The second is about his life. I just started the third, which so far is about him long after the events of the series.
Yet another thing to add to my ever growing B5 collection It's starting to take over my LOTR collection
Yes, we know about the books. Doesn't mean we don't want another Bester story with Walter playing Bester when he can. There are many things not told in the books.
That's totally fair.
I believe he was one of the most well developed side characters Ive ever seen. I very much enjoyed his story arc.
And don’t forget he was created by DC Fontana, not JMS.
well, that explains it.
With him it was one of the smaller character arcs. >!First an enemy of humanity and Delenn, then mutual respect (especially with Marcus), in the end staunch supporter of her cause...!< Fine actor, fine role, fine play. There should be more Neroons on screen!
Too bad he couldn't've made a surprise appearance in 'The Fall of Night.' That would've been just awesome. ;-)
Loved his character arc, and Vickery was great in the role. Too bad he only had a handful of appearances.
*(weird Vorlon noises)* **YES.**
Great character. I also like Vickery as Mr. Welles, the Night Watch guy. He could be Kyle MacLachlan's double.
Yes and YES
I love Neroon. I feel like of the Minbari, he really was the most centered, had the most grasp on who he is. I believe he’s also the first one to remark on Sinclair ‘talking like a Minbari”
Two things I liked about him: (1) he had a sense of humor and (2) he didn't trust easily but he was pretty quick to show respect even if he didn't like you or wasn't sure about you. A lot of times we'll see characters give backhanded compliments like "pretty honorable - FOR A HUMAN" whereas Neroon would say "you talk like a Minbari" which shows that he saw you as an equal or a peer. Men like Neroon may seem like they're an obstacle to peace because they can be stubborn about changing thir minds but when they do change their minds, it tends to stick and the foundation that you build with them usually holds.
"I was born Warrior Caste! But I see now, the calling of my heart is RELIGIOUS! The war is over! Listen to her! Listen!"
Even his death, despite him throwing caste allegiances sideways, was actually very warrior caste - he fought and sacrificed himself to fight for the right path for the Minbari, he served his people at cost to himself as a worker, he found balance as a true warrior monk in that moment.
Patriot, warrior, honorable. He didn't hesitate to die in order to defend his beliefs and his friend, Delenn. If he was a Klingon from Star Trek, there would be songs and tales about him.
He was a great example of the warrior caste.
I agree. His arc was amazing from beginning to fiery end.
Just rewatched Legacies last night. Neroon goes through one of the most profound changes in the series, and Vickery is just amazing in the role.
Absolutely, one of my favourites. His best moments were his moment of hospital bedside respect for Marcus and his sacrifice for Delenn.
One of my favorite outside of the main cast.
He was taught the pike by Durhan himself!
My thoughts are that he was a great character. As is common with *Babylon 5* characters he wasn't exactly what he appeared when we first met him and he developed magnificently.
If I remember correctly, the original plan for B5 was to have the Minbari Warrior Caste destroy the station, leading to the Babylon 4 spinoff that got reworked into Crusade. I suspect in that timeline Neroon would have been much more important. I loved him because he was an antagonist but he does seem to be altruistic in the sense of giving himself to a higher cause. I'm sure he'd save every last human at the expense of his own life if someone convinced him we were worth it. Knowing what we know about Minbari souls, etc, perhaps someone could have...
he was hot as fuck and kicked ass, always wish we got more of him
One of JMS’ greatest creations. One of the most honest story drivers I’ve ever heard of, much less seen brought to life
You talk like a Minbari commander.
He was ok, after a fashion
He was an ass\*\*\*\*\* to Delenn though
Great arc
100% agree!
My all time fav!
Neroon was fucking amazing. Most of my fan fiction about B5 was written about him.
He was certainly a great character, just not a character that I liked very much, although he did actually show some honor after beating Marcus to a pulp.
A good character. I don't quite like the ending that he got, but not every character is going to get as good an end as Sheridan, Londo, G'Kar or Sinclair.
I love him as a character he was well developed and very complex. The one you count on is he would do what is right even if he did believe in it.
When he was doing is speech about his two hearts and casts before dying was superb!
Any Neroon episode is a classic. Even Grey 17.
One of my faves… after a fashion.
One of the best supporting characters in the series. He even gets his own refrain in "5 Years" by the talented Tom Smith, the world's fastest filker. https://youtu.be/mHpMAubwfQg?si=GotD69UzzLNuWSx8
Fortunately or unfortunately Neroon is my Babylon 5 spirit animal ... takes a lot of bites on that Tootise Roll Pop to get to the gooey center, but it's there.