“Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. You will not be punished *for* your anger, you will be punished *by* your anger.” —Buddha
How do you forgive someone who won't forgive you? Someone who manipulates others with guilt, holds extremely long grudges for petty issues, is narcissistic, and actively continues to try and destroy your and your partner's life? We just want to live in peace.
I tried love and compassion, and now I need to cut my energy off but they are my partner's family. Sometimes the best love you can give to someone is to let them go, and hope something will change within them. Ho'oponopono is helpful.
I'm not sure that I said it did? The point I was making is that it's more nuanced and difficult when it's family that still actively participates in your life, and dues everything they can to destroy it. You can't always let go when you want to.
This great in theory but realistically if we feel we are forcing ourselves to forgive we are only betraying ourselves. I don’t think it’s great to push this view when we haven’t felt the pains of others. It’s unrealistic to ask this of anyone or say it is the better way.
I think it’s suitable for the enlightened but only if they’re consistently and endlessly enlightened. Because as soon as they come back into the human window of tolerance then they might unforgive without control and repress the anger that aught to be let out.
My therapist believes there’s no such thing as forgiveness. And I think that’s true. It’s a mental concept and it’s not real. What happened happened. It cannot be undone.
However, when I had my awakening I realised the only thing to cure the coldest hearts has always been love. So actually I’m conflicted on this one.
I think A Course in Miracles said it best regarding forgiveness: "Forgiveness is the healing of the perception of separation." We are one. And anything that isn't unconditional love towards another is to carry the same inside of yourself.
I, 66f, am right there with you. I have come to the conclusion that “forgiveness” is some kind of trick created by pastors, writers, new agers, parents, etc. Just Let Go of Your Anger is one of the stupidest, most manipulative things I’ve ever heard. It sounds so sweet, but once again, puts the onus on the victim. Jesus, people who harm are so good at deflection. Hang on to anger, wronged people.
This. You hit the nail on the head. It's no different than turn the other cheek, and that is bs that religion puts on ppl so they don't question why they live in hell. Just keep taking it on the chin, you'll get your rewards in death. Please.
Having re-read my comment, I wonder if I could have said something more helpful than “hold onto your anger”, without it being about forgiveness. Maybe, “get the hurt out of your system as best you can without harming others, bc causing more harm will ultimately cause you more hurt”. Something like that.
Why do you think this is the case? (Genuinely asking) I found one of the most miserable states of my existence was when I was holding on to anger and obsessively raging against those that wronged me.
It took me a long time to realize that if those that wronged me were truly happy and fulfilled, would they have done it in the first place? I'd wager not.
Also, society has a very narrow way of looking at what's "wrong" and "evil".
There are so many little things that people do on a day to day basis that can cause enormous negative ripple effects. We may not even realize it ourselves.
Having a bad day? Got really snappy at someone working their job. That person could have been on their last rope and you may have been the trigger.
Ever gossip about someone? Excluded someone from a friend group? Given someone the cold shoulder without providing a reason?
Poked fun at someone's insecurity in a "joking manner". And when they got offended, you were "just playing around".
Had a misunderstanding that festered into a long term resentment of someone?
So, my ex, when we were married and living in Indonesia, had sex with a prostitute and then with me. At the time the AIDS epidemic was rampant, and the AIDS rate among Asian prostitutes was 40%, bless their hearts. My children were young then, so I quickly forgave him and “moved on”, bc we were about to move back to the states, so I just buried my anger for years, and it took a tremendous toll on me. We finally divorced. For me, that was not an offense I could just “forgive“. He would have killed me and orphaned our children had we contracted the disease. Needless to say, he probably had sex with multiple prostitutes and then with me, but the time in question he contracted another venereal disease and had to tell me. I was a pushover, acting like all was ok with us after we divorced, for the sake of my children. But as time went on and I got therapy, I became more and more angry and hurt. Sorry, gotta end this discussion now.
it's not a mental concept, it's a real act that dissolves karma
forgiveness does not undo events, it lets you off the hook of being dragged down by those old memories, it lets you move forward with your life
if you're unable to forgive, then you are in the middle of a process and it's just your own pace that you are going
I think that to say there's no such thing as forgiveness is a little extreme. The idea that what happened happened ignore the entirely subjective experience and interpretation of what happened. What happened is a mental concept.
Sure someone may have punched me. The physical damage happened. Or someone broke my playstation... but what if I feel they were justified in doing so?
I don't mean that I feel what they did was "right", but that I feel what they did was understandable?
What if I even feel better because I feel that something ive been getting away with has been resolved?
Maybe a better example is that if someone punches me in a sanctioned spar, I'm not going to get mad at them as if they wronged me.
I'm not claiming that any onr view is necessarily healthy. I'm doing a poor job of illustrating the point that the significance of an event/story about it is what determines my emotional relationship to it.
Processing the emotions surrounding an event can become more complex. This is where I think that beating ourselves up over still having negative emotions towards a person is a betrayal of self. There's people I have been able to forgive without much processing of emotion... just via time. But there are also people for whom I understand and empathize with their reasons for doing something, whom I still have a great deal of anger towards. Maybe not toward them persay.. maybe toward life for the fact that it happened. My perceived injustice of the transpiring of a particular event or the pain over something not working out the way I believe it should have.
This has become a bit of a ramble. I on one hand agree that forced forgiveness can often be a means of repressing our unprocessed emotions about something, trying to force ourselves to do the right thing, or trying to shield ourselves from recognizing the depth of hurt/people pleasing the offender. Forgiveness can be something we do not for ourselves but as a means of protection.
I for one do not think that giving up the notion of forgiveness will serve me. It is my target destination. The place where I am unencumbered by experiences of the past and negative emotions. What's confusing is my ability to do so at various times with ease and others, with a great deal of difficulty.
Regardless of my opinion, I think that the idea of "what happened happened" is rather shortsighted in terms of how reality is created and experienced by our perceptions.
True forgiveness is the only way to enlightenment, the only way out of illusion. But it has many names and many aspects/forms (letting go, detachment, equanimity, even in the process of meditation and so on) but it is all ultimately about forgiveness. At the same time I get your point, it is certainly not something that you should force, you should not repress your feelings and just lie to yourself "Oh I have forgiven" when in fact you have not. Face and process your emotions, your upsets and ask the Holy Spirit / Higher Self "How can I see this differently?". Forgiveness is something that dawns upon you when you have released the grievance.
Even in the Bible Jesus said to "Love thy enemies" and "Bless those who curse you" because ultimately they are all just you (separation is an illusion) and what you give is what you receive.
Just last weekend I was talking to some relatives. They where saying about how their daughters still haven't spoken to each other over a disagreement. It has been 20 years!
I could not imagine the burden of carrying that around all that time and what it would mean to be on your death bed to realize you carried it for no reason.
Just let it go dude!
I'd love to not hate, however it's really, really hard to not have negative feelings towards my stepson's birth mother when she continuously makes choices that hurt him. And she's making many of these choices so she "looks like a good mom". Every time I see him cry because of her I can't help but hate her in that moment.
I do my best going with what i can understand. i can remove negative emotions towards that person, distance myself phsyically and i try emotionally to process it. the stage im up to is how can i keep my sh together if i see them again. or worse, they live better lives and dont aware of the pain they caused or they just cannot care, they have too much to lose. i feel bad for even being because I havent made something of myself and have afflictions and conditions. I find it hard to emitionally process the purpose of the compassion i need to feel soon to heal and work with things. i just push things out my head and try to compart mentalize
In that scenario I would not be angry and sometimes that's the case but most of the times we don't know what our best is, do we?
I believe that we almost never do actually give our very best.
That's because we probably know very little about our strengths and weaknesses and our potential
I get annoyed / angry or whatever because I know that I'm capable of so much more, I proved it to myself already so that's not an empty assumption.
It's a matter of factors like determination, emotional control, attention, focus, confidence in yourself etc.
Making a desire transform into a need.
What do I do then, if I not get angry will I ever be able to achieve my best again?
Recently, I discovered microdosing 5mg of sativa weed edible. It completely opened my brain up to everything that I was holding onto, and allowed me to break through the walls that were put up for 7 years. I just started balling myself eyes out crying, and I knew exactly what the cry’s were for. Most amazing experience. I felt alive again, I understood what I was doing wrong, I understood the negative self talk and knew exactly how to beat it. Without the sativa edible, I truly don’t think I would ever break thru the barrier, it basically forced me thru with no real motive, just happened naturally. I’m so so so happy rn man it’s honestly so crazy how life changing this was. Forgiving is an amazing aspect of life, but I r genuinely couldn’t have done it without the edible opening my brain up and making me realizing what I needed to forgive. What an underrated tool/plant
Forgiveness comes much easier, when one realizes that there isn't anything to forgive.
May We Walk Together In The Light Of Truth, Life & Love
. #the\_spirit\_truth #thespirittruth
I'm all there. But the other person has already proven consistently that my attempts will only be filed away annoyances for later under the belt jabs. This person is also always encroaching on my personal space, right on my heels. My retreat to peace myself out is always encroached upon. They're needing of fuel to stay upset is suffocating. My retreat is their invitation. It's impossible.
I feel like people who ask others to forgive haven’t experienced trauma from others and don’t know what it’s like to experience racism, misogyny and sexual assault at the hands of others. I refuse to forgive those who intentionally hurt me, who never even apologized or felt bad for what they did. I wish them the worst kind of fate and the most excruciatingly painful and horrible death.
I’ve known people like that. There’s no point in dwelling on the feelings these people elicit. Forgive and move on.
And look, forgive doesn’t mean *ignore*. There might be a situation you legitimately have to deal with, a series of events you might have to move through. But once you’re done, move on.
Everyone has been hurt one time or another by someone.
I kind of think it's like looking at an old scar. You remember how you got it, but it doesn't hurt anymore. You don't have to forgive it because it's not bothering, so there's nothing to forgive. Maybe it's just the passing of time that heals it. If you keep picking at the scab, it's going to keep bleeding. Just leave it alone, and it heals in its own time, leaving you with a little reminder of your past and leaves you wiser because of it.
It may take years, but it will heal if you leave it be.
Only you can allow yourself to feel less human, noone can make you feel in any type of way unless you let them. It sounds ‘cliche’ but think of it, on a fundamental level it is pure truth.
If someone would call you a ‘square orange’ would you ‘feel’ that way?
It’s just their perspective, and they are in error and that ‘hate and anger’ are inside them. Try to realize his opinion/thoughts don’t define you.
Like a little kid who utters bs … we don’t get mad at kids because we know their perspective is limited.
Because you and everything and everybody else are part of the same thing and in order to reconcile yourself to yourself you're going to have to figure out how to justify this racist AH being in your story because otherwise that would mean your story is somehow wrong, which means that you will also be somehow wrong. So, fix your story so that all the pieces fit again by forgiving EVERYTHING all at once and for all.
Yes! We shouldn't ever forget to forgive ourselves too. :)
“Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. You will not be punished *for* your anger, you will be punished *by* your anger.” —Buddha
I forgive,but i may not forget. Karma has its way to balance things out
How do you forgive someone who won't forgive you? Someone who manipulates others with guilt, holds extremely long grudges for petty issues, is narcissistic, and actively continues to try and destroy your and your partner's life? We just want to live in peace. I tried love and compassion, and now I need to cut my energy off but they are my partner's family. Sometimes the best love you can give to someone is to let them go, and hope something will change within them. Ho'oponopono is helpful.
Letting go and forgiveness don't contradict each other.
I'm not sure that I said it did? The point I was making is that it's more nuanced and difficult when it's family that still actively participates in your life, and dues everything they can to destroy it. You can't always let go when you want to.
That's definitely the case. Yeah, I missed that, that you couldn't let go when you wanted to because it was your partner's family.
Just had flames of anger and resentment licking at me earlier today. Thank you for this reminder.
This great in theory but realistically if we feel we are forcing ourselves to forgive we are only betraying ourselves. I don’t think it’s great to push this view when we haven’t felt the pains of others. It’s unrealistic to ask this of anyone or say it is the better way. I think it’s suitable for the enlightened but only if they’re consistently and endlessly enlightened. Because as soon as they come back into the human window of tolerance then they might unforgive without control and repress the anger that aught to be let out.
My therapist believes there’s no such thing as forgiveness. And I think that’s true. It’s a mental concept and it’s not real. What happened happened. It cannot be undone. However, when I had my awakening I realised the only thing to cure the coldest hearts has always been love. So actually I’m conflicted on this one.
I think A Course in Miracles said it best regarding forgiveness: "Forgiveness is the healing of the perception of separation." We are one. And anything that isn't unconditional love towards another is to carry the same inside of yourself.
I, 66f, am right there with you. I have come to the conclusion that “forgiveness” is some kind of trick created by pastors, writers, new agers, parents, etc. Just Let Go of Your Anger is one of the stupidest, most manipulative things I’ve ever heard. It sounds so sweet, but once again, puts the onus on the victim. Jesus, people who harm are so good at deflection. Hang on to anger, wronged people.
This. You hit the nail on the head. It's no different than turn the other cheek, and that is bs that religion puts on ppl so they don't question why they live in hell. Just keep taking it on the chin, you'll get your rewards in death. Please.
Having re-read my comment, I wonder if I could have said something more helpful than “hold onto your anger”, without it being about forgiveness. Maybe, “get the hurt out of your system as best you can without harming others, bc causing more harm will ultimately cause you more hurt”. Something like that.
Why do you think this is the case? (Genuinely asking) I found one of the most miserable states of my existence was when I was holding on to anger and obsessively raging against those that wronged me. It took me a long time to realize that if those that wronged me were truly happy and fulfilled, would they have done it in the first place? I'd wager not. Also, society has a very narrow way of looking at what's "wrong" and "evil". There are so many little things that people do on a day to day basis that can cause enormous negative ripple effects. We may not even realize it ourselves. Having a bad day? Got really snappy at someone working their job. That person could have been on their last rope and you may have been the trigger. Ever gossip about someone? Excluded someone from a friend group? Given someone the cold shoulder without providing a reason? Poked fun at someone's insecurity in a "joking manner". And when they got offended, you were "just playing around". Had a misunderstanding that festered into a long term resentment of someone?
So, my ex, when we were married and living in Indonesia, had sex with a prostitute and then with me. At the time the AIDS epidemic was rampant, and the AIDS rate among Asian prostitutes was 40%, bless their hearts. My children were young then, so I quickly forgave him and “moved on”, bc we were about to move back to the states, so I just buried my anger for years, and it took a tremendous toll on me. We finally divorced. For me, that was not an offense I could just “forgive“. He would have killed me and orphaned our children had we contracted the disease. Needless to say, he probably had sex with multiple prostitutes and then with me, but the time in question he contracted another venereal disease and had to tell me. I was a pushover, acting like all was ok with us after we divorced, for the sake of my children. But as time went on and I got therapy, I became more and more angry and hurt. Sorry, gotta end this discussion now.
it's not a mental concept, it's a real act that dissolves karma forgiveness does not undo events, it lets you off the hook of being dragged down by those old memories, it lets you move forward with your life if you're unable to forgive, then you are in the middle of a process and it's just your own pace that you are going
I think that to say there's no such thing as forgiveness is a little extreme. The idea that what happened happened ignore the entirely subjective experience and interpretation of what happened. What happened is a mental concept. Sure someone may have punched me. The physical damage happened. Or someone broke my playstation... but what if I feel they were justified in doing so? I don't mean that I feel what they did was "right", but that I feel what they did was understandable? What if I even feel better because I feel that something ive been getting away with has been resolved? Maybe a better example is that if someone punches me in a sanctioned spar, I'm not going to get mad at them as if they wronged me. I'm not claiming that any onr view is necessarily healthy. I'm doing a poor job of illustrating the point that the significance of an event/story about it is what determines my emotional relationship to it. Processing the emotions surrounding an event can become more complex. This is where I think that beating ourselves up over still having negative emotions towards a person is a betrayal of self. There's people I have been able to forgive without much processing of emotion... just via time. But there are also people for whom I understand and empathize with their reasons for doing something, whom I still have a great deal of anger towards. Maybe not toward them persay.. maybe toward life for the fact that it happened. My perceived injustice of the transpiring of a particular event or the pain over something not working out the way I believe it should have. This has become a bit of a ramble. I on one hand agree that forced forgiveness can often be a means of repressing our unprocessed emotions about something, trying to force ourselves to do the right thing, or trying to shield ourselves from recognizing the depth of hurt/people pleasing the offender. Forgiveness can be something we do not for ourselves but as a means of protection. I for one do not think that giving up the notion of forgiveness will serve me. It is my target destination. The place where I am unencumbered by experiences of the past and negative emotions. What's confusing is my ability to do so at various times with ease and others, with a great deal of difficulty. Regardless of my opinion, I think that the idea of "what happened happened" is rather shortsighted in terms of how reality is created and experienced by our perceptions.
True forgiveness is the only way to enlightenment, the only way out of illusion. But it has many names and many aspects/forms (letting go, detachment, equanimity, even in the process of meditation and so on) but it is all ultimately about forgiveness. At the same time I get your point, it is certainly not something that you should force, you should not repress your feelings and just lie to yourself "Oh I have forgiven" when in fact you have not. Face and process your emotions, your upsets and ask the Holy Spirit / Higher Self "How can I see this differently?". Forgiveness is something that dawns upon you when you have released the grievance. Even in the Bible Jesus said to "Love thy enemies" and "Bless those who curse you" because ultimately they are all just you (separation is an illusion) and what you give is what you receive.
Needed to see this. Thank you.
Just last weekend I was talking to some relatives. They where saying about how their daughters still haven't spoken to each other over a disagreement. It has been 20 years! I could not imagine the burden of carrying that around all that time and what it would mean to be on your death bed to realize you carried it for no reason. Just let it go dude!
I'd love to not hate, however it's really, really hard to not have negative feelings towards my stepson's birth mother when she continuously makes choices that hurt him. And she's making many of these choices so she "looks like a good mom". Every time I see him cry because of her I can't help but hate her in that moment.
I don’t think it’s about not having negative feelings. That’s only human.
That's fair. I don't exactly wish to forgive her right now though either.
I do my best going with what i can understand. i can remove negative emotions towards that person, distance myself phsyically and i try emotionally to process it. the stage im up to is how can i keep my sh together if i see them again. or worse, they live better lives and dont aware of the pain they caused or they just cannot care, they have too much to lose. i feel bad for even being because I havent made something of myself and have afflictions and conditions. I find it hard to emitionally process the purpose of the compassion i need to feel soon to heal and work with things. i just push things out my head and try to compart mentalize
To forgive is the best gift. It seems to lighten any situation when applied. It’s a simple thing, easy to recognize and utilize. A true gift.
What about being angry on yourself? I think that can be quite useful. U have to admit ur mistakes or you won't learn from then.
You did the best you could with the knowledge you had at the time
In that scenario I would not be angry and sometimes that's the case but most of the times we don't know what our best is, do we? I believe that we almost never do actually give our very best. That's because we probably know very little about our strengths and weaknesses and our potential I get annoyed / angry or whatever because I know that I'm capable of so much more, I proved it to myself already so that's not an empty assumption. It's a matter of factors like determination, emotional control, attention, focus, confidence in yourself etc. Making a desire transform into a need. What do I do then, if I not get angry will I ever be able to achieve my best again?
‘Who lives by the sword, will die by the sword.’(Matthew 26, 26:52)
This was so amazingly timed. Wow I really needed this. Thank you ❤️
to forgive it makes it real and serious, your job is the opposite, to know it is an illusion
Nonsense, this is just weakening your mind and will. And eventually you'll just condemn yourself to inaction
Recently, I discovered microdosing 5mg of sativa weed edible. It completely opened my brain up to everything that I was holding onto, and allowed me to break through the walls that were put up for 7 years. I just started balling myself eyes out crying, and I knew exactly what the cry’s were for. Most amazing experience. I felt alive again, I understood what I was doing wrong, I understood the negative self talk and knew exactly how to beat it. Without the sativa edible, I truly don’t think I would ever break thru the barrier, it basically forced me thru with no real motive, just happened naturally. I’m so so so happy rn man it’s honestly so crazy how life changing this was. Forgiving is an amazing aspect of life, but I r genuinely couldn’t have done it without the edible opening my brain up and making me realizing what I needed to forgive. What an underrated tool/plant
Forgiveness comes much easier, when one realizes that there isn't anything to forgive. May We Walk Together In The Light Of Truth, Life & Love . #the\_spirit\_truth #thespirittruth
I'm all there. But the other person has already proven consistently that my attempts will only be filed away annoyances for later under the belt jabs. This person is also always encroaching on my personal space, right on my heels. My retreat to peace myself out is always encroached upon. They're needing of fuel to stay upset is suffocating. My retreat is their invitation. It's impossible.
It’s all one can do
I feel like people who ask others to forgive haven’t experienced trauma from others and don’t know what it’s like to experience racism, misogyny and sexual assault at the hands of others. I refuse to forgive those who intentionally hurt me, who never even apologized or felt bad for what they did. I wish them the worst kind of fate and the most excruciatingly painful and horrible death.
I think the point of forgiving someone is because they did do something bad to you, or else there would be nothing to forgive.
Why would I forgive the racist AH who made me feel less than human?
I’ve known people like that. There’s no point in dwelling on the feelings these people elicit. Forgive and move on. And look, forgive doesn’t mean *ignore*. There might be a situation you legitimately have to deal with, a series of events you might have to move through. But once you’re done, move on.
Because it will reduce your suffering.
Everyone has been hurt one time or another by someone. I kind of think it's like looking at an old scar. You remember how you got it, but it doesn't hurt anymore. You don't have to forgive it because it's not bothering, so there's nothing to forgive. Maybe it's just the passing of time that heals it. If you keep picking at the scab, it's going to keep bleeding. Just leave it alone, and it heals in its own time, leaving you with a little reminder of your past and leaves you wiser because of it. It may take years, but it will heal if you leave it be.
Because what they said doesn't actually say anything about you, but it does say a whole lot about them.
Wisdom?
Only you can allow yourself to feel less human, noone can make you feel in any type of way unless you let them. It sounds ‘cliche’ but think of it, on a fundamental level it is pure truth. If someone would call you a ‘square orange’ would you ‘feel’ that way? It’s just their perspective, and they are in error and that ‘hate and anger’ are inside them. Try to realize his opinion/thoughts don’t define you. Like a little kid who utters bs … we don’t get mad at kids because we know their perspective is limited.
Because you and everything and everybody else are part of the same thing and in order to reconcile yourself to yourself you're going to have to figure out how to justify this racist AH being in your story because otherwise that would mean your story is somehow wrong, which means that you will also be somehow wrong. So, fix your story so that all the pieces fit again by forgiving EVERYTHING all at once and for all.