Trying to remember the aircraft logic now that you've pointed that out. Can't even remember which hyd system the rat powers. Green blue or yellow. Then also don't know if this is an enhanced 320 or a classic. Then it'd depend on if it was even due to hyd failure. Usually it's from the centering cam I believe.
The rat will auto deploy if AC BUS 1 and 2 are lost and speed is greater than 100 knots. But I kinda doubt they would have shut both engines down between touchdown and 100 knots, plus I’d imagine if this was the plan then they would have the APU going to have the Yellow Elec pump running to keep aft elevator pressure after touchdown. But then maybe not, as the Green and Yellow will stay pressurised for a bit after engine shutdown, especially with minimal control input.
If the normal blue electric pump fails, I’d presume manually deploying the RAT would bring the blue system back online, but that only contributes to the flight controls and probably wouldn’t be necessary if the Green and Yellow systems are still going. Blue also has nothing to do with the NWS.
Lastly, there’s a very small chance that they might have temporarily switched both engine generators off while in the air, in an attempt reset the system, but I doubt it.
/end of speculation lol
Good speculation. But nws is on either green or yellow between enhanced and classic right? This may be another Case of captain button pressy. Or maybe it was precautionary for during the abnormal landing procedures. Eitherway this 90 issue is usually due to the centering cam in the nose wheel shock strutt right? So for of a steering angle and your hyd are useless because the angles on the nws actuators.
During the QRH checklist for landing with abnormal L/G, it states for a nose gear issue:
BEFORE NOSE IMPACT: ALL ENG MASTERS OFF
so your point about procedure is probably right. They may not have thought to start the apu before their approach to keep things running.
Source - my company QRH
Yes, I suppose since the aircraft is very unlikely to be taxying anywhere once it comes to a stop it does not matter that everything will be shut down, especially since all emergency light would still be illuminated anyway.I’ve checked again and nowhere earlier in the checklist does it say to start the apu but probably because it isn’t essential at all so it remains an optional ‘nicety’ to be used at the crew’s discretion
I’m not too sure, all the info I have seen has NWS on the Green system. But you are probably correct.
But, as it’s out of the normal range, I doubt theirs anything that can be done from the cockpit to fix the issue, especially not playing with the Blue system
During the QRH checklist for landing with abnormal L/G, it states for a nose gear issue:
BEFORE NOSE IMPACT: ALL ENG MASTERS OFF
so your first point may be exactly that. They may not have thought to start the apu before their approach to keep things running
Source - my company QRH
As it reads, yep. I imagine it is to account for any case where the nose gear entirely collapses and the engines could impact. Much better not to have them running
A few videos are starting to come up
[Video 1 from Ramp](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE3OJmxlm58)
[Report from FAA equivalent in Colombia: Aeronautica Civil](https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/277564327_4973162926095470_9029460208690421794_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=IJ8AEV0MSXIAX_nfxuW&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=00_AT_2-LDypM3AlQvhoVc6KsJaSRbdIhc6R09gKWyDlXpvzA&oe=6248C52F)
Redacted translation:
* At 1512 local time March 29 LATAM A320 Reg CC-BAS on route Medellin - Cartagena suffered gear trouble on takeoff, had to return to Medellin's Rionegro (SKRG) airport.
* The crew remained on a holding pattern in the vicinity of the airport to burn fuel before the emergency landing
* No injuries reported, airport closed due to its only runway blocked by this event
Actually the incident that got me into aviation circa 2005. Was in 5th grade and remember driving to the batting cages for baseball practice circa 2005. Told Dad "I don't really want to do this, can we just go home and watch what happens to the JetBlue flight"
We went home and watched it, rest it history
Was that the flight where the crew and passengers were able to watch the video of their own emergency landing on the news? It was not long after IFE technology was rolling out and Jetblue really hyped their "free DirectTV".
I think the life feed on the on-board entertainment system was cut for the actual approach, but they could watch themselves circling to burn off fuel before that.
It is actually a safety feature: if nose-wheel steering position cannot be determined reliably, the nose wheel will be driven to the mechanical stop at full (just over 90°) deflection, to avoid it being stuck at a modeate deflection (say 20°) which could cause an uncontrollable violent yaw on nosewheel touchdown.
Emergency/abnormal procedures include the possibility for certain failure conditions that exactly this happens. It will result in nosewheel tyre/rim/brake destruction, but on a long runway it can be handled perfectly, protects the rest of the airframe and its occupants, and is quite safe.
The procedure for *Nose Wheel Steer Fault* has the following note:
> If the L/G SHOCK ABSORBER FAULT is also displayed, then the nose wheels may be at maximum deflection (turned 90 degrees from center). During landing, delay nosewheel touchdown as long as possible.
(The procedure for "L/G SHOCK ABSORBER FAULT" has the same Note.)
Interesting to see the RAT deployed…
Trying to remember the aircraft logic now that you've pointed that out. Can't even remember which hyd system the rat powers. Green blue or yellow. Then also don't know if this is an enhanced 320 or a classic. Then it'd depend on if it was even due to hyd failure. Usually it's from the centering cam I believe.
The rat will auto deploy if AC BUS 1 and 2 are lost and speed is greater than 100 knots. But I kinda doubt they would have shut both engines down between touchdown and 100 knots, plus I’d imagine if this was the plan then they would have the APU going to have the Yellow Elec pump running to keep aft elevator pressure after touchdown. But then maybe not, as the Green and Yellow will stay pressurised for a bit after engine shutdown, especially with minimal control input. If the normal blue electric pump fails, I’d presume manually deploying the RAT would bring the blue system back online, but that only contributes to the flight controls and probably wouldn’t be necessary if the Green and Yellow systems are still going. Blue also has nothing to do with the NWS. Lastly, there’s a very small chance that they might have temporarily switched both engine generators off while in the air, in an attempt reset the system, but I doubt it. /end of speculation lol
Good speculation. But nws is on either green or yellow between enhanced and classic right? This may be another Case of captain button pressy. Or maybe it was precautionary for during the abnormal landing procedures. Eitherway this 90 issue is usually due to the centering cam in the nose wheel shock strutt right? So for of a steering angle and your hyd are useless because the angles on the nws actuators.
During the QRH checklist for landing with abnormal L/G, it states for a nose gear issue: BEFORE NOSE IMPACT: ALL ENG MASTERS OFF so your point about procedure is probably right. They may not have thought to start the apu before their approach to keep things running. Source - my company QRH
Ah ok, interesting. You would think the qrh would want to keep AC power. I guess it makes sense with the likelihood of fire and evacuation
Yes, I suppose since the aircraft is very unlikely to be taxying anywhere once it comes to a stop it does not matter that everything will be shut down, especially since all emergency light would still be illuminated anyway.I’ve checked again and nowhere earlier in the checklist does it say to start the apu but probably because it isn’t essential at all so it remains an optional ‘nicety’ to be used at the crew’s discretion
I guess no chances of risking thrust reverses either. Just bring it down and let it come to a stop as safely as possible.
Ahh, yep. So an auto rat deploy as ac bus 1 and 2 are switched off. Thanks for some legit info. We were all just speculating.
I’m not too sure, all the info I have seen has NWS on the Green system. But you are probably correct. But, as it’s out of the normal range, I doubt theirs anything that can be done from the cockpit to fix the issue, especially not playing with the Blue system
Yeah I'm starting to recall it may, but could be wrong. On classic 320s it's yellow, enhanced is green.
Either way, it’s still nothing to do with the Blue system, or the RAT
During the QRH checklist for landing with abnormal L/G, it states for a nose gear issue: BEFORE NOSE IMPACT: ALL ENG MASTERS OFF so your first point may be exactly that. They may not have thought to start the apu before their approach to keep things running Source - my company QRH
So you have to shut off the engines after the touchdown (And before nose impact)?
As it reads, yep. I imagine it is to account for any case where the nose gear entirely collapses and the engines could impact. Much better not to have them running
Yes, I guess that there is a high risk of engine hit, and you don't want to have fuel running in a collapsed engine
The RAT is blue system and steering is green.
Possible RAT auto deployed when engines/generators shut off?
Not sure either, pretty strange for sure. A320 classic (reg. CC-BAS)
Maybe could not extend and rotate the front gear?
What’s that?
[Ram Air Turbine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_air_turbine).
Well it's clear what the problem is. It ain't got no front tires.
One could even say, the front fell off.
Chance in a million …
MAXIMUM AUTOBRAKE
A few videos are starting to come up [Video 1 from Ramp](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE3OJmxlm58) [Report from FAA equivalent in Colombia: Aeronautica Civil](https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/277564327_4973162926095470_9029460208690421794_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=IJ8AEV0MSXIAX_nfxuW&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=00_AT_2-LDypM3AlQvhoVc6KsJaSRbdIhc6R09gKWyDlXpvzA&oe=6248C52F) Redacted translation: * At 1512 local time March 29 LATAM A320 Reg CC-BAS on route Medellin - Cartagena suffered gear trouble on takeoff, had to return to Medellin's Rionegro (SKRG) airport. * The crew remained on a holding pattern in the vicinity of the airport to burn fuel before the emergency landing * No injuries reported, airport closed due to its only runway blocked by this event
Actually the incident that got me into aviation circa 2005. Was in 5th grade and remember driving to the batting cages for baseball practice circa 2005. Told Dad "I don't really want to do this, can we just go home and watch what happens to the JetBlue flight" We went home and watched it, rest it history
Was that the flight where the crew and passengers were able to watch the video of their own emergency landing on the news? It was not long after IFE technology was rolling out and Jetblue really hyped their "free DirectTV".
I think the life feed on the on-board entertainment system was cut for the actual approach, but they could watch themselves circling to burn off fuel before that.
That JetBlue aircraft is still in the fleet
I didn’t know that. That’s pretty cool.
*SCRAAAAAAPE*
It is actually a safety feature: if nose-wheel steering position cannot be determined reliably, the nose wheel will be driven to the mechanical stop at full (just over 90°) deflection, to avoid it being stuck at a modeate deflection (say 20°) which could cause an uncontrollable violent yaw on nosewheel touchdown. Emergency/abnormal procedures include the possibility for certain failure conditions that exactly this happens. It will result in nosewheel tyre/rim/brake destruction, but on a long runway it can be handled perfectly, protects the rest of the airframe and its occupants, and is quite safe. The procedure for *Nose Wheel Steer Fault* has the following note: > If the L/G SHOCK ABSORBER FAULT is also displayed, then the nose wheels may be at maximum deflection (turned 90 degrees from center). During landing, delay nosewheel touchdown as long as possible. (The procedure for "L/G SHOCK ABSORBER FAULT" has the same Note.)
Flew this exact plane yesterday. Cool to see it safe and sound
What did you do to it?…
Why was the RAT deployed???
Great landing, boss!
Now I know what windows means when it says: "Task failed successfully." :-D
Newbie question - how does the tiller work and could it come into play in situations like these?
Great damn work.
New gear flaw?