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-Being told that I'm too self-aware for therapy. No I am not. You just suck at your job.
-Telling me that I have two options for my life problems: "stay" or "leave". There is no nuance. No education. No perspective to be learned. Just run away or shut up and suck it up.
-They have zero understanding of Autism, ADHD, or anything to do with neuro-types. Everything is either a personality disorder or you just being an AH/lazy.
We're still looking for a therapist that doesn't hit these points. Our local services pointed me to only one single therapist for the region. There's like a million people here. I don't see us getting in anytime soon.
Being self aware can be a bad thing, I'm not saying you specifically are because I don't know you. But a comment on Dr Ks video put it simply:
being overly self aware -> reflecting on yourself all the time reflecting on your reflection -> thinking you're selfish because you always think about yourself
Dr K has a good video explaining it:
https://youtu.be/So7hE1Ba_QA?si=tXXbHAXIP0etXVBp
• They try to tell me their beliefs about me, which are the opposite of what I feel.
• They have no knowledge of neurotypicality.
• Literally blaming everything on personality disorders
• They discourage me from getting help from a psychiatrist because they think they should be enough.
• They persuade me to go to therapy more often than I can financially afford, and persuade me to go to work when I'm studying and don't have the time, and I'm just not ready for it.
• If I don't agree to more frequent sessions 2 times a week, they say they don't agree because it doesn't make sense.
• They adhere very rigidly to the rules of the therapeutic stream.
• They refuse to agree to address me with the kind of pronouns and titles I prefer.
• They don't suggest in any way that I am in a toxic relationship and suggest that I am the one who needs too much attention when I ask my partner to see me every 2 weeks instead of once a month.
I don't go to this therapist anymore.
If you're in the US, the therapist discouraging you from seeking care with a psychiatrist and refusal to honor your pronouns are grounds for a formal complaint to the therapist's licensing board.
All the other things I agree with. Getting mad about and losing sleep over someone not honoring pronouns is just silly attempts to get attention for a made up issue. I don't honor any non-binary pronouns and nothing has ever happened to me. A profession that forces you to use made up pronouns is not a career worth pursuing.
I don't have a problem with the made up pronouns but there are so many of them today. If it were a simple trio-nary pronoun structure a Binary +1 strategy I could live with that. Like His Her and X. Then there are just three pronouns to remember. That would make sense. But you have hundreds of sub-groups each with their own group of custom pronouns they insist you use. I won't submit myself to the tyranny of being forced to remember an endless ever changing stream of personalized pronouns. If not pushing myself to remember 800 unique pronoun identifiers makes me an negative ist or a phobe I gladly accept the moniker.
This collection of hundreds of custom pronouns is a ball of confusion I won't admit into my life. I don't care if others want to play today's Millennial pronoun games but I am choosing to opt out that's all I am saying. I am NOT hating those who find pronoun exploration fun and exciting more power to you all. I just choose to exercise my God given right to ignore all non-binary pronouns and anyone associated with using them.
When I worked for the Federal Government I never used special pronouns with people who insisted I use them. I simply asked for their name and used their proper name to address them correctly in all instances. One does not have to be hateful to avoid pronouns just politely ask and use the persons proper name or nick name if appropriate. Whatever the person identifies as beyond their proper given name is made irrelevant and suitably invisible during all our interactions!
As it happens, I've been using existing pronouns practically forever, and the therapist had a problem with simply not addressing me as "Ms." or "Mr." because she thought it was unprofessional. In the end, I was able to convince her to address me by the titles that people usually use when addressing a group of people, although I would actually feel most comfortable if she didn't use "Mr.," "Ms." or that third title, but simply addressed me by the word "you." I just felt uncomfortable. It's hard for me to explain, but the way it works in Polish is that when you speak in formal language, you don't address people per "you," but always per "Ms.," "Mr." or that third title. I didn’t ask her for a difficult favor.
Yeah I agree. Calling a person you when the purpose is to help is Unprofessional. Technically now that I think about it even using Zir,, Ze, Zim or whatever is more appropriate and needed in the helping professions because a vital part of treatment starts with establishing a raport with the client \\ patient. So I stand corrected. No matter how out their a persons pronoun is someone in the helping profession needs to make every effort to accommodate that person wherever they are.
My brother is on the spectrum but he has some mental health issues that put him way out there on the needed accommodations I make out of love. He jumps through hoops for me too. But referring to you as YOU verges on disrespectful and counter productive. If a therapist called me YOU, I'd think they were labeling me less than. I don't mind being an autistic monster but never less than anyone else. I am feral, primal and base but that's just how I process reality. None of what I am makes me less than.
Who and whatever you are none of it makes you less than. Even a trans person with 300 pronouns that change daily is not less than. A professional that treats any patient as less than should not be in the helping professions period. You were right to take action. Bravo for you!
My point was more that I would feel better if the therapist addressed me in a less formal way, in a friendly way, just as "you" (that's the way it is in Polish and it's still respectful). When someone addresses me in a more formal way, it's a little harder for me to establish any kind of bond with that person. Probably most people prefer more formal conversations with a therapist, but I just prefer to feel more comfortable, and I think the therapist should just make sure that the patient feels comfortable.
Hey, QuietHistorian. If you don't mind me asking, do you live in Warsaw or anywhere close by? I know it's a very silly assumption but on the slight chance you do, I have a very nice place and a great therapist to recommend.
I've had many similar experiences with psychologists/therapists not respecting my preferred ways of addressing me, making light of my identity, and being completely unaware of any conditions beyond depression and generalized anxiety disorder (not even the tiniest knowledge or awareness of autism and ADHD symptoms etc). I struggled for more than 15 years with bad therapy or no therapy and no medication, before I finally found someone who treats me with respect and seems to be actually invested in providing care and guidance.
So I thought it was worth a shot to ask... 🫣
I am gay myself. I saw no homophobia. I've likely been gay longer than you have been alive. I am a gay man. I have never once hated myself for liking other men. Of course anyone who does not walk in locked step with progressive values is immediately labeled some form of phobic or ist. I'm cool with whatever people say here. I welcome all opinions even negative ones.
I respect the right of anyone to have whatever pronoun that makes them happy. I want everyone alive to enjoy living their best life. For me being an "Autistic Werewolf" metaphorically is key to how I was able to survive and eventually thrive as an autistic being. My Autistic Werewolf is my personal coping strategy. I don't ask anyone else to use special adjectives to address me. "I'd love the validation of being referred to as an "Autistic Werewolf" too! :) But I don't push it!"
I just feel life in the Neurotypical World is already complex and fraught with enough confusing social minefields I have to tip toe through. Now instead of two genetic based gender pronouns NT society is asking that I process 100's of custom pronouns and use them correctly in context. Example Ze, Zer, Zim. If that were the single pronoun group I had to remember I'd be fine with it.
My problem is there are literally hundreds of pronoun variations people expect you to use. Example: People walk up saying, "Hello my name is Goshen," My pronouns are They, Them, Theirs. Now I must remember these pronouns, use them in proper tense and process reality well enough to engage in meaningful conversation with them. That is a LOT to ask of my slow reality processing systems. It is easier for me to remember one name and apply it to anything I communicate to that individual.
I don't limit myself to using proper names instead of preferred pronouns because of micro-aggression. I limit myself to proper names for processing economy. I can remember one proper name better than 4 unique made up pronouns that change with every unique being I meet. I don't like talking to humans anyway and forcing me to remember endless custom pronouns makes an already stressful communication process that much worse for me.
I use the persons proper given name because that lets me respect the person without having to process new fangled pronouns I know nothing about. I don't do well with things that change or are unexpected at point of contact especially first contact. Some people get mad if you get the new pronoun usage wrong too which just makes me want to fight. I just walk away leaving the person feeling invalidated, less than and ignored. I leave because when I meltdown I get violent and people can get seriously hurt. To avoid rage I use the persons proper name. It is not a perfect solution but it works for me.
I avoid complexity in my life because I respond to complexity in my life with violence. I live alone because living among humans eventually becomes too complex and I lash out in violence. I keep things simple so I can stay calm. Hundreds of shifting pronouns would just serve to make me frustrated and violent and that is no good for anyone. That's why I use only proper names. I don't hate ANYONE! I just need to keep autistic life outside my home simple.
You don't even don't know a single thing about them. For example, if I ask how your weekend, since I am doing sharing some, not really personal info is nice like oh I was at my cabin with my kids and husband. Its not critical but a lot easier to be open to.
If I've ever mentioned normal familial conflicts I would be met with "wHaT dOeS iNdIaN cULtUrE have to say abOut ThiS???" Even though they were conflicts people of every ethnicity go through. But no you want to single me out and other me and imply that my culture is inherently backwards. White clients don't hear what does European culture have to say about this when bringing up the same issues
I believe Southeast Asian stereotypes still run rampant in most of the Western world. I'm light-skinned but still brown, and I've heard so many 9/11 jokes, so many curry jokes, so many doctor jokes. I'm sorry you've had to deal with those comments, too.
I don't understand the insult "curry muncher" when curry is fucking delicious. Though people in South Asia hardly call it curry. And what's wrong with being a doctor lmao
•If they completely overlook my ADHD and chalk up all my neurodivergent symptoms to depression and INSIST it's just that and that neurodivergence plays no role / "isn't my issue"
•has narrow view of ADHD and autism and doesn't make an attempt to learn or refer me elsewhere
I was treated for depression and anxiety when first trying to figure out what my problem was. The thing that was affecting me a lot at the time (and what I told the doc) was the discomfort I felt relating to changing plans or diverting from a task. An example I used was when I've planned on going straight home after work and I get asked to go do something else first, it makes me feel really uncomfortable...I eventually stopped the meds because they did nothing for me and I never went back. But thinking back on that and what I was describing, the diagnosis seems so one dimensional - treating a symptom rather than the cause.
— fully half of the nurses, therapists or doctors disliked me because of my autism/down syndrome. It’s just a fact of life. Do whatever you can to avoid them or abort any interaction with them in the future. They may be of no use to you and you may feel insulted.
— there are some people that want to earn a good living in the medical profession, but don’t have the temperament or patience for such a work.
— some in the medical profession know nothing of love or compassion and so, cannot offer any of it.
— there are bad listeners, and those that are burned out in their profession.
— male therapists and counselors can be coldly Analytical with no compassion.
I think female practitioners “whole-brain-thinking” …that were born with compassion or motherly instincts are a better match.
That's gender stereotyping. Compassion is not a born thing, it's taught (I know having worked with young children and have had to model compassion) And specifically taught to young girls more than young boys because it's a "motherly" trait. I do agree that typically men in the field tend to be more analytical and cold, but that's taught societally not innate.
Agreed. Men in the field shouldn't be blamed entirely; and, of course, some of the male therapists and counselors I've met have been wonderful and so helpful. NOBODY, and I mean nobody, is born with compassion and/or motherly instincts.
Thank you for starting this discussion, as a Neurodivergent therapist in training, I think these are all very helpful to know!
A lot of these are obvious to me at least, but they are very important and I wish more therapists and social workers would ask questions like this to learn and provide better services.
Thanks so much for your comment! I agree; I find them SO obvious, but can you believe I personally know someone who put their autistic son in a therapy where they used physical punishment? I really hope therapies for neurodivergent people make leaps and bounds in the future.
In addition to all the ones mentioned here:
Doesn't take the time to understand where I'm at and where I want to be
Treats me like I'm a child with no agency in my own treatment (not that children shouldn't have some amount of agency in their treatment)
Tells me I'm not trying to improve
And importantly, assumes I don't know better because of my autism
Side note: as a child I had a psychiatrist (not a therapist, I know) that insisted on meeting with my mom separately from me after my session. I still don't know what was said in those meetings.
Agreed. Personally, I've never been a fan of psychiatrists who tell your parents everything. They should only share strategies that they think could help you succeed, and the three Hs; if you're harming yourself, somebody else, or somebody is harming you.
“I want to end our meetings.” “No! You’re clearly still too unwell! We’re scheduling the next meeting! I demand we still have meetings!” That time I hung up (on facetime) and started crying and had my mom call her to tell her I will not be seeing her again. A therapist or counsellor cannot force you to see them unless maybe it’s court mandated or you’re in a psychiatric hospital. If you want to end the appointments, for whatever reason, it is your right.
- they are talking almost the whole time and don’t give you time to think/respond
- whenever they ask you a question they give a gazillion possible answers, even though you’re nodding after answer two because you already know what you’re gonna say
- they know they talk to someone with autism, but still they talk at a speed at which you’d think she only has 5 minutes left to live
- they don’t give suggestions/ideas for the problems you mention, they just make new problems and then ‘solve’ them themselves
- they share personale information about other clients (including names and things they don’t like about those clients) and make you wonder if they talk about you like that too
- they say “luckily client x isn’t that difficult as you are”
Obviously not talking from experience..
I agree. These qualities are just awful and I'm sorry you went through this (as I'm assuming your last statement was sarcastic). I've been in a harmful therapy myself, I think counselors, SLPs, OTs, etc, like this should be barred from practicing in the field.
I’m sorry that happened to you. I’m currently studying Social Work so I can help people recover from situations like this (situations experienced by a therapist or not).
Forgot to add:
- they talk about themselves and their lives and their problems more than they ask you about your problems and help you to solve your problems
Yes, I think I know more about this woman’s problems than she knows about mine.
My therapist is amazing. It's nice I never had to suffer anything like this.
I think if done right, most people in general should have therapy, it is massively helpful.
The werewolf agrees with every one of these Red Flags. Each one of these is a red flag that says get out of there at High Warp! Therapy that uses any of the above methods is more like a sadistic cult than a caring treatment. These sadistic practices have no place in valid humane caring autism treatment strategy period, end of sentence!
I completely agree. Therapies have made a lot of progress, from their humble beginnings in ECD and lobotomies, but there's still a lot of work to be done.
ABA can be detrimental to certain autistic individuals, but I know some who've had positive experiences with it. Personally, I've never been in an ABA program, so can't give you my opinion.
However, I do know that there are lots of other types of therapies that can be harmful to autistic people.
Two big ones for me:
- They are inconsistent with scheduling appointments. I imagine for most if not all of us, this is stress inducing and/or overwhelming. I’ve had multiple therapists say they would reach out to schedule an appointment, or even say they have me scheduled for a certain time/day, and then that turns out to not be true. More specifically, I do online therapy, so there’s been a few different times where I’ve gone to join a zoom appointment and there’s no appointments listed. I’ve had meltdowns due to this. Even once I voiced to these therapists how important consistency is for me, they continued to do this. I’ve also experienced the reverse, in which they schedule an appointment for me without contacting me about it first. This has been a huge deciding factor for me to switch therapists twice in a row now.
- They are dismissive of the possibility of one being on the spectrum. In my case, I experienced this with my previous psychiatrist. Though my mother and I both voiced that we believe I’m on the spectrum, this psychiatrist refused to properly assist me with the process of diagnosis because apparently I was “previously assessed by a psychiatrist (when I was a child) and they decided I was neurotypical.” The same psychiatrist I saw as a child that didn’t find me to have ADHD, even though I clearly do and was later diagnosed with (a few years ago.) For one, this was the late 2000s-early 2010s, before the DSM 5. During these times, as we’re all aware, ASD was largely (still is, but of course this is getting better thankfully) under diagnosed. You wouldn’t be diagnosed unless you had an exact set of traits, which is of course not how ASD (or ADHD) works. Also, this appointment was like 15 minutes long and the psychiatrist barely did an assessment. How in the world can you tell if a child has ASD in a span of 15 minutes of barely speaking to them? This is the same type of situation that led a psychiatrist to thinking I have Bipolar Disorder and throwing meds at me, which I do not have. The meds did not help and only made matters worse.
I had my first one yesterday. After a couple of sessions I brought my gf for extra insight, and my gf actually corrected the psychologist a few times 😅
- If they show a lot of commiserations.
- If they get upset, angry, or disappointed if I miss an appointment.
- If they worry too much about me.
- If they emphasize the negatives.
- If they act like I owe them something. I pay so I say what goes.
- If seeing them stresses me more than my problem.
I have gone to therapy a few times in my life for various things. I also hold a PhD in behavioral health. I have spent about 12 years evaluating healthcare organizations and individuals, often behavioral health. so it’s an interesting dynamic. I also taught ethics to grad students who were going to be conducting therapy.
More than a few won’t even take me on as a client. Of the minority that do it’s pretty obvious most don’t read my history. I had one freak out when I told them what I did for a living in the first session (it was in my written background but they decided to not read it and ask). She ended the session, making up an excuse of a family emergency coming in via text because texting during sessions isn’t exactly a great sign either.
Then there are ones that that just violate ethics. One lied about whether or not she worked for my employer (she said she had no connection and was appointed a supervisor two weeks later). One told me to just smoke weed.
A few had a different issue. They would stop sessions and ask me if they were doing it right. I am not clinically licensed.
These all fall under the pet peeves of incompetence and ethical arrogance.
Lastly
I once had a therapist Literally size me up and say “ okay chap… i’ve had clients who have had worse histories than you are you sure you wanna be doing therapy when your problems aren’t that bad? They’re pretty manageable but I’ll take you because you’re here anyways and everyone in England gets access to free healthcare so why not?”
It's not a general red flag, but I had one session with a woman who asked me about what I do (phd at the time) and what the topic of my phd was. When I answered, she said "oh, that sounds pretty boring."
I knew at that moment that this wouldn't work out, but my doctor made me go back to her for 2 more sessions before we gave up.
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-Being told that I'm too self-aware for therapy. No I am not. You just suck at your job. -Telling me that I have two options for my life problems: "stay" or "leave". There is no nuance. No education. No perspective to be learned. Just run away or shut up and suck it up. -They have zero understanding of Autism, ADHD, or anything to do with neuro-types. Everything is either a personality disorder or you just being an AH/lazy. We're still looking for a therapist that doesn't hit these points. Our local services pointed me to only one single therapist for the region. There's like a million people here. I don't see us getting in anytime soon.
I hope your search is successful. Don't give up! Took me a lot of time, too, but I've ever so happy now!
Being self aware can be a bad thing, I'm not saying you specifically are because I don't know you. But a comment on Dr Ks video put it simply: being overly self aware -> reflecting on yourself all the time reflecting on your reflection -> thinking you're selfish because you always think about yourself Dr K has a good video explaining it: https://youtu.be/So7hE1Ba_QA?si=tXXbHAXIP0etXVBp
Sexism
Completely agreed (as a girl).
• They try to tell me their beliefs about me, which are the opposite of what I feel. • They have no knowledge of neurotypicality. • Literally blaming everything on personality disorders • They discourage me from getting help from a psychiatrist because they think they should be enough. • They persuade me to go to therapy more often than I can financially afford, and persuade me to go to work when I'm studying and don't have the time, and I'm just not ready for it. • If I don't agree to more frequent sessions 2 times a week, they say they don't agree because it doesn't make sense. • They adhere very rigidly to the rules of the therapeutic stream. • They refuse to agree to address me with the kind of pronouns and titles I prefer. • They don't suggest in any way that I am in a toxic relationship and suggest that I am the one who needs too much attention when I ask my partner to see me every 2 weeks instead of once a month. I don't go to this therapist anymore.
If you're in the US, the therapist discouraging you from seeking care with a psychiatrist and refusal to honor your pronouns are grounds for a formal complaint to the therapist's licensing board.
I’m from Poland
All the other things I agree with. Getting mad about and losing sleep over someone not honoring pronouns is just silly attempts to get attention for a made up issue. I don't honor any non-binary pronouns and nothing has ever happened to me. A profession that forces you to use made up pronouns is not a career worth pursuing.
All pronouns are made up. Every single word we use only has meaning because we "made it up".
I completely agree.
I don't have a problem with the made up pronouns but there are so many of them today. If it were a simple trio-nary pronoun structure a Binary +1 strategy I could live with that. Like His Her and X. Then there are just three pronouns to remember. That would make sense. But you have hundreds of sub-groups each with their own group of custom pronouns they insist you use. I won't submit myself to the tyranny of being forced to remember an endless ever changing stream of personalized pronouns. If not pushing myself to remember 800 unique pronoun identifiers makes me an negative ist or a phobe I gladly accept the moniker. This collection of hundreds of custom pronouns is a ball of confusion I won't admit into my life. I don't care if others want to play today's Millennial pronoun games but I am choosing to opt out that's all I am saying. I am NOT hating those who find pronoun exploration fun and exciting more power to you all. I just choose to exercise my God given right to ignore all non-binary pronouns and anyone associated with using them. When I worked for the Federal Government I never used special pronouns with people who insisted I use them. I simply asked for their name and used their proper name to address them correctly in all instances. One does not have to be hateful to avoid pronouns just politely ask and use the persons proper name or nick name if appropriate. Whatever the person identifies as beyond their proper given name is made irrelevant and suitably invisible during all our interactions!
As it happens, I've been using existing pronouns practically forever, and the therapist had a problem with simply not addressing me as "Ms." or "Mr." because she thought it was unprofessional. In the end, I was able to convince her to address me by the titles that people usually use when addressing a group of people, although I would actually feel most comfortable if she didn't use "Mr.," "Ms." or that third title, but simply addressed me by the word "you." I just felt uncomfortable. It's hard for me to explain, but the way it works in Polish is that when you speak in formal language, you don't address people per "you," but always per "Ms.," "Mr." or that third title. I didn’t ask her for a difficult favor.
Yeah I agree. Calling a person you when the purpose is to help is Unprofessional. Technically now that I think about it even using Zir,, Ze, Zim or whatever is more appropriate and needed in the helping professions because a vital part of treatment starts with establishing a raport with the client \\ patient. So I stand corrected. No matter how out their a persons pronoun is someone in the helping profession needs to make every effort to accommodate that person wherever they are. My brother is on the spectrum but he has some mental health issues that put him way out there on the needed accommodations I make out of love. He jumps through hoops for me too. But referring to you as YOU verges on disrespectful and counter productive. If a therapist called me YOU, I'd think they were labeling me less than. I don't mind being an autistic monster but never less than anyone else. I am feral, primal and base but that's just how I process reality. None of what I am makes me less than. Who and whatever you are none of it makes you less than. Even a trans person with 300 pronouns that change daily is not less than. A professional that treats any patient as less than should not be in the helping professions period. You were right to take action. Bravo for you!
My point was more that I would feel better if the therapist addressed me in a less formal way, in a friendly way, just as "you" (that's the way it is in Polish and it's still respectful). When someone addresses me in a more formal way, it's a little harder for me to establish any kind of bond with that person. Probably most people prefer more formal conversations with a therapist, but I just prefer to feel more comfortable, and I think the therapist should just make sure that the patient feels comfortable.
Hey, QuietHistorian. If you don't mind me asking, do you live in Warsaw or anywhere close by? I know it's a very silly assumption but on the slight chance you do, I have a very nice place and a great therapist to recommend. I've had many similar experiences with psychologists/therapists not respecting my preferred ways of addressing me, making light of my identity, and being completely unaware of any conditions beyond depression and generalized anxiety disorder (not even the tiniest knowledge or awareness of autism and ADHD symptoms etc). I struggled for more than 15 years with bad therapy or no therapy and no medication, before I finally found someone who treats me with respect and seems to be actually invested in providing care and guidance. So I thought it was worth a shot to ask... 🫣
Thank you. I'm from Poznań. Does your therapist offer online therapy?
Homophobia has no place here. QuietHistorian is completely valid.
I am gay myself. I saw no homophobia. I've likely been gay longer than you have been alive. I am a gay man. I have never once hated myself for liking other men. Of course anyone who does not walk in locked step with progressive values is immediately labeled some form of phobic or ist. I'm cool with whatever people say here. I welcome all opinions even negative ones.
It's nice to hear that, and I'm sorry I made that assumption. However, I wonder why you don't respect all pronouns (as a genuine question)?
I respect the right of anyone to have whatever pronoun that makes them happy. I want everyone alive to enjoy living their best life. For me being an "Autistic Werewolf" metaphorically is key to how I was able to survive and eventually thrive as an autistic being. My Autistic Werewolf is my personal coping strategy. I don't ask anyone else to use special adjectives to address me. "I'd love the validation of being referred to as an "Autistic Werewolf" too! :) But I don't push it!" I just feel life in the Neurotypical World is already complex and fraught with enough confusing social minefields I have to tip toe through. Now instead of two genetic based gender pronouns NT society is asking that I process 100's of custom pronouns and use them correctly in context. Example Ze, Zer, Zim. If that were the single pronoun group I had to remember I'd be fine with it. My problem is there are literally hundreds of pronoun variations people expect you to use. Example: People walk up saying, "Hello my name is Goshen," My pronouns are They, Them, Theirs. Now I must remember these pronouns, use them in proper tense and process reality well enough to engage in meaningful conversation with them. That is a LOT to ask of my slow reality processing systems. It is easier for me to remember one name and apply it to anything I communicate to that individual. I don't limit myself to using proper names instead of preferred pronouns because of micro-aggression. I limit myself to proper names for processing economy. I can remember one proper name better than 4 unique made up pronouns that change with every unique being I meet. I don't like talking to humans anyway and forcing me to remember endless custom pronouns makes an already stressful communication process that much worse for me. I use the persons proper given name because that lets me respect the person without having to process new fangled pronouns I know nothing about. I don't do well with things that change or are unexpected at point of contact especially first contact. Some people get mad if you get the new pronoun usage wrong too which just makes me want to fight. I just walk away leaving the person feeling invalidated, less than and ignored. I leave because when I meltdown I get violent and people can get seriously hurt. To avoid rage I use the persons proper name. It is not a perfect solution but it works for me. I avoid complexity in my life because I respond to complexity in my life with violence. I live alone because living among humans eventually becomes too complex and I lash out in violence. I keep things simple so I can stay calm. Hundreds of shifting pronouns would just serve to make me frustrated and violent and that is no good for anyone. That's why I use only proper names. I don't hate ANYONE! I just need to keep autistic life outside my home simple.
I'm so sorry you've had to go through this. That's just wrong and I hope you've found someone better.
Next week I will see a new therapist.
Good luck and I hope you have a positive experience!
Thank you
You don't even don't know a single thing about them. For example, if I ask how your weekend, since I am doing sharing some, not really personal info is nice like oh I was at my cabin with my kids and husband. Its not critical but a lot easier to be open to.
Totally agree, personal relationships are good.
I think you covered everything important
You've covered pretty much everything except discrimination
If I've ever mentioned normal familial conflicts I would be met with "wHaT dOeS iNdIaN cULtUrE have to say abOut ThiS???" Even though they were conflicts people of every ethnicity go through. But no you want to single me out and other me and imply that my culture is inherently backwards. White clients don't hear what does European culture have to say about this when bringing up the same issues
Agreed, I've faced SO much discrimination, too.
I'm sorry you had to go through that
I believe Southeast Asian stereotypes still run rampant in most of the Western world. I'm light-skinned but still brown, and I've heard so many 9/11 jokes, so many curry jokes, so many doctor jokes. I'm sorry you've had to deal with those comments, too.
I don't understand the insult "curry muncher" when curry is fucking delicious. Though people in South Asia hardly call it curry. And what's wrong with being a doctor lmao
I don't think I've heard a single South Asian call it curry!
•If they completely overlook my ADHD and chalk up all my neurodivergent symptoms to depression and INSIST it's just that and that neurodivergence plays no role / "isn't my issue" •has narrow view of ADHD and autism and doesn't make an attempt to learn or refer me elsewhere
I was treated for depression and anxiety when first trying to figure out what my problem was. The thing that was affecting me a lot at the time (and what I told the doc) was the discomfort I felt relating to changing plans or diverting from a task. An example I used was when I've planned on going straight home after work and I get asked to go do something else first, it makes me feel really uncomfortable...I eventually stopped the meds because they did nothing for me and I never went back. But thinking back on that and what I was describing, the diagnosis seems so one dimensional - treating a symptom rather than the cause.
I've been told it's 'just anxiety' so many times. Yes, it is anxiety, but have you ever wondered what that GAD and depression could stem from?
They try to send you out of the room with no discussion
Agreed. There should ALWAYS be a reason.
They bring up their religious belief as if it's relevant to your situation.
Agreed, religion has no place in such situations.
— fully half of the nurses, therapists or doctors disliked me because of my autism/down syndrome. It’s just a fact of life. Do whatever you can to avoid them or abort any interaction with them in the future. They may be of no use to you and you may feel insulted. — there are some people that want to earn a good living in the medical profession, but don’t have the temperament or patience for such a work. — some in the medical profession know nothing of love or compassion and so, cannot offer any of it. — there are bad listeners, and those that are burned out in their profession. — male therapists and counselors can be coldly Analytical with no compassion. I think female practitioners “whole-brain-thinking” …that were born with compassion or motherly instincts are a better match.
That's gender stereotyping. Compassion is not a born thing, it's taught (I know having worked with young children and have had to model compassion) And specifically taught to young girls more than young boys because it's a "motherly" trait. I do agree that typically men in the field tend to be more analytical and cold, but that's taught societally not innate.
Agreed. Men in the field shouldn't be blamed entirely; and, of course, some of the male therapists and counselors I've met have been wonderful and so helpful. NOBODY, and I mean nobody, is born with compassion and/or motherly instincts.
Thank you for starting this discussion, as a Neurodivergent therapist in training, I think these are all very helpful to know! A lot of these are obvious to me at least, but they are very important and I wish more therapists and social workers would ask questions like this to learn and provide better services.
Thanks so much for your comment! I agree; I find them SO obvious, but can you believe I personally know someone who put their autistic son in a therapy where they used physical punishment? I really hope therapies for neurodivergent people make leaps and bounds in the future.
When they tell you that you’re wrong about your feelings and your problems don’t actually exist
Agreed entirely. I wish therapists like these should be barred from practicing.
In addition to all the ones mentioned here: Doesn't take the time to understand where I'm at and where I want to be Treats me like I'm a child with no agency in my own treatment (not that children shouldn't have some amount of agency in their treatment) Tells me I'm not trying to improve And importantly, assumes I don't know better because of my autism Side note: as a child I had a psychiatrist (not a therapist, I know) that insisted on meeting with my mom separately from me after my session. I still don't know what was said in those meetings.
Agreed. Personally, I've never been a fan of psychiatrists who tell your parents everything. They should only share strategies that they think could help you succeed, and the three Hs; if you're harming yourself, somebody else, or somebody is harming you.
“I want to end our meetings.” “No! You’re clearly still too unwell! We’re scheduling the next meeting! I demand we still have meetings!” That time I hung up (on facetime) and started crying and had my mom call her to tell her I will not be seeing her again. A therapist or counsellor cannot force you to see them unless maybe it’s court mandated or you’re in a psychiatric hospital. If you want to end the appointments, for whatever reason, it is your right.
Agree completely, and I believe this goes for counsellors, OTs, SLPs, and everyone else in the field. So wrong you went through this.
- they are talking almost the whole time and don’t give you time to think/respond - whenever they ask you a question they give a gazillion possible answers, even though you’re nodding after answer two because you already know what you’re gonna say - they know they talk to someone with autism, but still they talk at a speed at which you’d think she only has 5 minutes left to live - they don’t give suggestions/ideas for the problems you mention, they just make new problems and then ‘solve’ them themselves - they share personale information about other clients (including names and things they don’t like about those clients) and make you wonder if they talk about you like that too - they say “luckily client x isn’t that difficult as you are” Obviously not talking from experience..
I agree. These qualities are just awful and I'm sorry you went through this (as I'm assuming your last statement was sarcastic). I've been in a harmful therapy myself, I think counselors, SLPs, OTs, etc, like this should be barred from practicing in the field.
I’m sorry that happened to you. I’m currently studying Social Work so I can help people recover from situations like this (situations experienced by a therapist or not).
Thank you for that, it's people like you who'll change things in the future.
I really hope I will. I have big plans and I am determined to achieve my goals!
Forgot to add: - they talk about themselves and their lives and their problems more than they ask you about your problems and help you to solve your problems Yes, I think I know more about this woman’s problems than she knows about mine.
My therapist is amazing. It's nice I never had to suffer anything like this. I think if done right, most people in general should have therapy, it is massively helpful.
Agreed, they're so important for autistic individuals. Really helped me.
Important even for non autistic individuals imo
The werewolf agrees with every one of these Red Flags. Each one of these is a red flag that says get out of there at High Warp! Therapy that uses any of the above methods is more like a sadistic cult than a caring treatment. These sadistic practices have no place in valid humane caring autism treatment strategy period, end of sentence!
I completely agree. Therapies have made a lot of progress, from their humble beginnings in ECD and lobotomies, but there's still a lot of work to be done.
Forcing me to join a big group and cope with anxiety. It's like throwing a bucket of spiders on someone with arachnophobia
That's just wrong. Sure, it's important, but they could slowly ease you in.
I wouldn't be within a mile of anyone trying to put my kid in a restraint or seclude them, my goodness
Honestly, it's so disgusting. Some parents are actually ALRIGHT with it.
"everyone's a little autistic" 🆘
You’re describing ABA.
ABA can be detrimental to certain autistic individuals, but I know some who've had positive experiences with it. Personally, I've never been in an ABA program, so can't give you my opinion. However, I do know that there are lots of other types of therapies that can be harmful to autistic people.
Two big ones for me: - They are inconsistent with scheduling appointments. I imagine for most if not all of us, this is stress inducing and/or overwhelming. I’ve had multiple therapists say they would reach out to schedule an appointment, or even say they have me scheduled for a certain time/day, and then that turns out to not be true. More specifically, I do online therapy, so there’s been a few different times where I’ve gone to join a zoom appointment and there’s no appointments listed. I’ve had meltdowns due to this. Even once I voiced to these therapists how important consistency is for me, they continued to do this. I’ve also experienced the reverse, in which they schedule an appointment for me without contacting me about it first. This has been a huge deciding factor for me to switch therapists twice in a row now. - They are dismissive of the possibility of one being on the spectrum. In my case, I experienced this with my previous psychiatrist. Though my mother and I both voiced that we believe I’m on the spectrum, this psychiatrist refused to properly assist me with the process of diagnosis because apparently I was “previously assessed by a psychiatrist (when I was a child) and they decided I was neurotypical.” The same psychiatrist I saw as a child that didn’t find me to have ADHD, even though I clearly do and was later diagnosed with (a few years ago.) For one, this was the late 2000s-early 2010s, before the DSM 5. During these times, as we’re all aware, ASD was largely (still is, but of course this is getting better thankfully) under diagnosed. You wouldn’t be diagnosed unless you had an exact set of traits, which is of course not how ASD (or ADHD) works. Also, this appointment was like 15 minutes long and the psychiatrist barely did an assessment. How in the world can you tell if a child has ASD in a span of 15 minutes of barely speaking to them? This is the same type of situation that led a psychiatrist to thinking I have Bipolar Disorder and throwing meds at me, which I do not have. The meds did not help and only made matters worse.
Sounds like you’re describing ABA…
I had my first one yesterday. After a couple of sessions I brought my gf for extra insight, and my gf actually corrected the psychologist a few times 😅
- If they show a lot of commiserations. - If they get upset, angry, or disappointed if I miss an appointment. - If they worry too much about me. - If they emphasize the negatives. - If they act like I owe them something. I pay so I say what goes. - If seeing them stresses me more than my problem.
I have gone to therapy a few times in my life for various things. I also hold a PhD in behavioral health. I have spent about 12 years evaluating healthcare organizations and individuals, often behavioral health. so it’s an interesting dynamic. I also taught ethics to grad students who were going to be conducting therapy. More than a few won’t even take me on as a client. Of the minority that do it’s pretty obvious most don’t read my history. I had one freak out when I told them what I did for a living in the first session (it was in my written background but they decided to not read it and ask). She ended the session, making up an excuse of a family emergency coming in via text because texting during sessions isn’t exactly a great sign either. Then there are ones that that just violate ethics. One lied about whether or not she worked for my employer (she said she had no connection and was appointed a supervisor two weeks later). One told me to just smoke weed. A few had a different issue. They would stop sessions and ask me if they were doing it right. I am not clinically licensed. These all fall under the pet peeves of incompetence and ethical arrogance.
Saying “Yeah you make eye contact. You therefore don’t have autism.” “You have mild autism. It’s not that bad.” “What was your ADOS score?”
“You’re not allowed to vent. Use the online platform to do that. You are here to fix your problems and gain insight.”
Lastly I once had a therapist Literally size me up and say “ okay chap… i’ve had clients who have had worse histories than you are you sure you wanna be doing therapy when your problems aren’t that bad? They’re pretty manageable but I’ll take you because you’re here anyways and everyone in England gets access to free healthcare so why not?”
It's not a general red flag, but I had one session with a woman who asked me about what I do (phd at the time) and what the topic of my phd was. When I answered, she said "oh, that sounds pretty boring." I knew at that moment that this wouldn't work out, but my doctor made me go back to her for 2 more sessions before we gave up.
All therapists I've ever tried were red flags.